Friday Open Thread

It's a court and then jail day for me. Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Good for my old home town (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 03:34:16 PM EST
    Missouri was the first state in the country to pass a constitutional ban on gay marriage 10 years ago, and it's now the latest to see its ban come under fire amid rapidly changing public opinion.
    The challenge came as officials in St. Louis, the state's most prominent city, issued marriage licenses to four same-sex couples Wednesday evening, just hours after federal judges struck down similar same-sex marriage bans in Utah and Indiana as unconstitutional.



    "Holy chutzpah," indeed.

    That's excellent (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 03:38:44 PM EST
    Many friends in St Louis.  Lived there for years and it's the closest real city.  Had heard this might happen this is the first news.  Need to make phone calls.

    Didn't realize you were from St Louis (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 03:40:25 PM EST

    Born and raised (none / 0) (#9)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 03:56:03 PM EST
    in Richmond Heights.  It's near Clayton, if you know where Clayton is.

    Of course (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 04:15:15 PM EST
    Good friends in Clayton.  Great.  I have spent a lot of time there.  When I was working on lakes and rivers that was the union hall I mostly shipped out of so I was there a lot in the 70s mostly staying with friends but for a short time in the 70s I had a pretty serious injury and had to take a break so I worked at a record store in Clayton called Almar Music Village.  Then in the eighties  spent almost a year there working for McDonnel Dougkas and more than a year working for Busch.
    I lived in the west end.  When working for Busch I lived in Montclaire on the Park.(I think it was called-a high rise on Forest Park).  I love St Louis.

    By the 70's, (none / 0) (#17)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 05:06:10 PM EST
    I was married and long gone from the area.
    I still have relatives  near there, though, so I visit fairly frequently.
    I love St.  Louis, too.
    Go, Cards!     ;-)

    My niece has bee n posting photos (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 03:33:07 AM EST
    the many giant "250" birthday cakes scattered around St.  Louis.

    Have either of you been to the (none / 0) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 09:08:11 AM EST
    Cathedral Basilica of Saint Louis

    One of my favorite places.  Off hours of course.


    Of course (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Zorba on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 12:43:27 PM EST
    Not for services.  It is beautiful.
    Did you ever go to the Missouri Botanical Gardens (also known as Shaw's Garden)?  I love it.  Gorgeous outdoor exhibits, and a wonderful Climatron.
    And the St. Louis Zoo is one of the best zoos in the country, and still free to enter.  Parking costs, as do a few of the special exhibits and the little train that goes around the zoo, but you can see a most of it for free, and also find free parking along the streets in Forest Park, if you're willing to walk a ways.

    I prefer the frormer the old cathedral near the (none / 0) (#47)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 01:01:16 PM EST
    arch, though I did see a beautiful performance of Benjamin Britten's "The Prodigal Son" at the new cathedral. Other favorites:  art museum, Jewel Box, muni opera, Museum of the Western Expansion, and St . Charles. And Sainte Genevieve. Used to love Famous Barr, which is now Macy's!!!

    Yes, the Old Cathedral (none / 0) (#68)
    by Zorba on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 03:22:37 PM EST
    was a true St. Louis landmark.  Wonderful place.
    The art museum was a jewel, even though small.  Also free, at least in those days.  The Arch and the museum, great!  Also the Jewel Box.  And the Muni Opera!  I spent many times in the summers there seeing musical theater and other performances.  I was privileged to see the Royal Ballet perform there, with Dame Margot Fonteyn and Rudolph Nureyev.  Yes, she was getting old by then for a ballerina, but still exquisite.  And she and Nureyev had a kind of magic together.
    Famous Barr......we used to go there often, especially for their restaurant's French onion soup.  They had their big rival department store, Stix Baer and Fuller, which was eventually bought by Dillard's.
    You and Howdy have opened up a whole lot of memories for me.    ;-)

    One of my favorite things (none / 0) (#85)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 09:29:58 AM EST
    Used to be going to south St. Louis to this old hotel (I think) to have the best turtle soup in the world.  I have been trying to remember the name of the place but it's not working.  I messaged a couple of friends on FBook.

    Got a response (none / 0) (#87)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 10:41:37 AM EST
    It was called The Pelican.

    Pelican site may soar again Old restaurant on Grand is part of a development that will include a 24-hour gym.

    That's an old article.  My friend said nothing about it re opening.


    I knew the people (none / 0) (#90)
    by Zorba on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 12:51:23 PM EST
    who owned this restaurant.  They were Greek.    ;-)
    And, yes, their turtle soup was excellent.

    Great (none / 0) (#91)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 02:19:57 PM EST
    Small world after all

    Do you realize what you have just done, Howdy??? (none / 0) (#98)
    by Zorba on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 06:32:42 PM EST
    I now have the song "it's a Small World After All" stuck in my head as an ear-worm.  
    Thanks.  Thanks a whole lot.     ;-)

    Ear Worm Antidote (none / 0) (#99)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 07:02:58 PM EST
    Sexual Fantast... works like a charm..

    Or anyone can try (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Zorba on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 07:36:27 PM EST
    The Three Stooges "Swinging the Alphabet."
    And be warned.  Once you watch this, it will eat into your brain.      ;-)

    Yes (none / 0) (#51)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 01:17:42 PM EST
    Love the botanical gardens.  The little park nearby, Tower Grove Park, was quite the gay/hippy hangout in the 70s.  So I spent a lot of time in that area.

    Mr. Zorba and his family (none / 0) (#65)
    by Zorba on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 03:07:45 PM EST
    lived near Tower Grove Park.  I know it well.
    It wasn't so much a "gay/hippy hangout" way back in those days, though.
    Not that it would have made any difference to any of us.  After all, my oldest friends still refer to me as an "aging hippy."  And I wear the name proudly.     ;-)

    Forest park has the best bike trails (none / 0) (#52)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 01:20:54 PM EST
    Ever.  Used to commute on them when I lived on the edge of the park.  Busch Creative Services was on the othe edge of the park.

    The Pitchforks Are Coming (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 04:42:02 PM EST
    This made me laugh.  But he's not wrong

    You probably don't know me, but like you I am one of those .01%ers, a proud and unapologetic capitalist. I have founded, co-founded and funded more than 30 companies across a range of industries--from itsy-bitsy ones like the night club I started in my 20s to giant ones like Amazon.com, for which I was the first nonfamily investor.

    But let's speak frankly to each other. I'm not the smartest guy you've ever met, or the hardest-working. I was a mediocre student. I'm not technical at all--I can't write a word of code. What sets me apart, I think, is a tolerance for risk and an intuition about what will happen in the future. Seeing where things are headed is the essence of entrepreneurship. And what do I see in our future now?
    I see pitchforks.

    Here's what I say to you: You're living in a dream world. What everyone wants to believe is that when things reach a tipping point and go from being merely crappy for the masses to dangerous and socially destabilizing, that we're somehow going to know about that shift ahead of time. Any student of history knows that's not the way it happens. Revolutions, like bankruptcies, come gradually, and then suddenly. One day, somebody sets himself on fire, then thousands of people are in the streets, and before you know it, the country is burning. And then there's no time for us to get to the airport and jump on our Gulfstream Vs and fly to New Zealand. That's the way it always happens. If inequality keeps rising as it has been, eventually it will happen. We will not be able to predict when, and it will be terrible--for everybody. But especially for us.

    One paragraph summary (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by unitron on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 06:58:21 AM EST
    In any large group, some people absolutely will not do the right thing. That's why our economy can only be safe and effective if it is governed by the same kinds of rules as, say, the transportation system, with its speed limits and stop signs.

    In fact I think we should dub that first sentence

    In any large group, some people absolutely will not do the right thing.


    (unless he lifted it from someone else)


    Or the cynics version (none / 0) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 08:59:55 AM EST
    In any large group, most people absolutely will not do the right thing.

    Haahahahah (none / 0) (#15)
    by squeaky on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 04:58:12 PM EST
    I'm not the smartest guy you've ever met

    That is for sure. The smart ones have better solid contingency plans. They bought land in Canada and have a driving route mapped out. Not being able to get to one's Gulfstream Vs is a no brainer, stupid.


    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 07:19:54 PM EST
    Sadly I can see the only thought provoked in some 1%ers might be to formulate a better escape plan.

    Saw that. the whole essay/speech is worth a read. (none / 0) (#16)
    by sj on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 05:04:19 PM EST
    He makes entirely too much sense... (none / 0) (#29)
    by unitron on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 06:37:17 AM EST
    ...and his fellow plutocrats are probably busy telling their people to tell their people to do something to discredit him and make him quit rocking their dreamboat.

    It turns out that if you put a * before and after a word here it's the same as the bold tag and a / before and after are the same as an italics tag.


    Masterpiece Mystery alert! (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by caseyOR on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 06:55:19 PM EST
    For all the Masterpiece Mystery fans here at TL, season 2 of Endeavour,the story of Inspector Morse when he was a new young police detective, begins this Sunday, June 29, at 9 pm (EDT).

    Season 1 was excellent. I am looking forward to this upcoming season.

    A friend sent me a photo (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 08:43:40 PM EST
    of the screen showing the Beckstein piano. I just acquired a 1983 Bechstein, but the logo does not reference C. Bechstein's military rank or association with kings and Kaisers (or Hitler, for that matter) nit is a wonderful piano though.

    The Leftovers (none / 0) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 07:46:32 PM EST
    also starts Sunday-Times review

    Looking forward to this one

    If that was the Christian rapture, then some of the worst people were chosen for eternal salvation.

    On "The Leftovers," a spooky new series starting on Sunday on HBO, about one person in 50 vanished on Oct. 14, without any discernible pattern: babies, lawyers, drunks, thieves, surgeons, murderers, grandmothers, bartenders, celebrities and even the pope are gone.

    The first episode is a flashback that begins starkly: A harried mother with a crying baby in a car safety seat is talking on her cellphone as she prepares to start the engine. Seconds later, the baby is gone. Nearby, so is a father, who was pushing a grocery cart to his car -- as his young son calls out for him, the untended cart drifts into the parking lot.

    The story really begins on the third anniversary of the disappearances, when Mapleton is holding a commemorative parade, despite the objections of Kevin Garvey (Justin Theroux), the town's police chief, who thinks the gathering will draw trouble. A featured speaker at the Sept. 11-like ceremony is Nora Durst (Carrie Coon), a woman who lost her two children and husband on that day.

    New PBS series about two old queens (none / 0) (#34)
    by caseyOR on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 09:07:23 AM EST
    who have been together nearly 50 years begins this Sunday night on your local PBS station. Vicious stars Ian McKellan and Derek Jacobi as the couple who live a shabbily genteel life in their London apartment.

    Vicious tells the story of partners Freddie (Ian McKellen) and Stuart (Derek Jacobi), who have lived together in a small central London flat for nearly 50 years. Constantly picking each other apart and holding on to petty slights for decades, Freddie and Stuart are always at each other's throats, cracking snide remarks aimed at the other's age, appearance and flaws. However, underneath their vicious, co-dependent fighting, they have a deep love for one another. Freddie and Stuart are often joined by feisty best friend Violet (Frances de la Tour, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows) and Ash (Iwan Rheon, "Game of Thrones"), their young, upstairs neighbor.

    This does sound interesting. The chance to see Jacobi and McKellan together, playing off one another, makes it worth viewing.


    Definitely (none / 0) (#36)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 09:13:06 AM EST
    The DVR is set

    Great! I loved it to. That actor really captures (none / 0) (#28)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 06:24:31 AM EST
    Morse's character.

    I'll probably skip The Leftovers. Amy Brenneman - ugh.


    Had to google who that was (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 08:58:12 AM EST
    I dont think I have seen anything she is credited for except Robot Chicken (which I love)

    Robot Chichen (none / 0) (#37)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 09:44:25 AM EST
    Funny-ish (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 09:56:11 AM EST
    I liked Leftovers (none / 0) (#101)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 10:15:50 PM EST
    A lot.  The actor you didn't like does not speak.  She is one of the creepy people in white who chain smoke and don't talk.  

    It's not what I expected.  Not sure what I expected but it's not it.  I really think you should at least give the pilot a chance.


    Also (none / 0) (#102)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 11:25:15 PM EST
    Very interesting Penny Dreadful finale.  Poor Frankenstein.  I hope his new girlfriend works out better than Elsa Lanchester.

    Didn't see the Wolfman coming.  

    Interesting question.  Do you want to be normal.  One I have asked myself.  Ultimately I think she will not either.


    It was interesting.... (none / 0) (#114)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 10:12:10 AM EST
    I didn't see the wolf man coming either...and what will happen if he sees his ex-girlfriend stitched back together with her new 'husband' in tow? Awkward!

    I think Vanessa better do more research into priests. That guy did not seem on top of his game.


    Loved Previously TVs (none / 0) (#118)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 10:23:23 AM EST
    Imaginary conversation with "Left Behind" star Nicolas Cage.

    It's a very uncomfortable storyline (none / 0) (#104)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 08:00:35 AM EST
    You know what's really weird?  I could understand someone wanting to join the GR cult, but can't put it into words.

    The kids burying the dog too discussing how human beings will try to make sense out of things, while the dogs just get to know it didn't make sense so then just snapped.

    Very disturbing storyline.  It might too much for the audience.  We will have to see if the nation is made of strong stuff.  I always thought Six Feet Under must be on the verge of its last season, because Americans really don't like dealing with mortality, but it held on.


    Even more disturbing in a way (none / 0) (#105)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 09:40:20 AM EST
    Because we don't know if they are dead.  They are just gone.  Or like the poor sherif.  His wife is still there but gone.  Which would be worse?  I agree very disturbing.  And when you throw in things like the strange behavior of animals.....

    Also agree the cult is strangely sympathetic.  But I would still hate them if I was there.  


    Maybe I will, but after all the ads, (none / 0) (#106)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 09:59:16 AM EST
    when I try to answer the question for myself: do I really care what is going on here, or why Amy Brenneman is mercifully not talking, I have to say...not really!

    Strangely (none / 0) (#109)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 10:05:23 AM EST
    It doesn't seem to be about that.  I couldn't tell you what it is about however.

    Not sure I've seen enough to know (none / 0) (#119)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 11:18:03 AM EST
    whether I like it or not - I guess we'll have to see how it unfolds.

    I can tell you, though, if it's going to be week after week of more questions being asked, and none - or few - of the existing ones getting answered, i will probably reach the "I really don't care what's going on" stage after about three episodes and move on to something else.


    Lindelof (creator of Lost) (none / 0) (#123)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 11:49:10 AM EST
    Got a lot of criticism for that very thing for that series.  I sort of expect this to not end so vaguely.  But who knows.  
    I do know that I tried several times to watch Lost and it never took.  I am already hooked on this.  This is from Hollywood Reporter today-

    Since Lost ended, you've focused on movies. How did you decide this is the right time to get back into TV?
    It was like a lot things in my life in that it wasn't really a decision. I met a woman -- and I really liked her a lot. It wasn't like "Should I marry her?" We just did.
    The only way one would decide to run a TV show is to not think about what goes into it. The moment I read a book review from Stephen King in The New York Times, I was intrigued. I always said if I returned to TV after Lost, I would want it to be on premium cable. When I heard The Leftovers was set up on HBO, it was like the stars had aligned.
    Do you think the show speaks to current times?
    The emotional stock and trade of the show is these people are spinning in the wake of a spiritual tragedy on a worldwide level. That's a relatable concept. Whenever there's some kind of a tragedy -- be it 9/11 or Newtown -- it hits us hard. But moving forward, you very quickly have to push through that membrane and resume a semblance of normality: "I have to drop my clothes off at the dry cleaner." I'm not entirely sure what people think they're going to get when they tune in Sunday night or tune in on subsequent nights. I do hope they like it.

    The Counslor (none / 0) (#107)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 10:01:48 AM EST
    Something else I saw yesterday that I really liked.  Written by Cormac McCarthy directed by Ridley Scott with an amazing cast.  Including some really good actors in really small parts.  Including Natalie Dormer ( Joffery's unconsummated queen)  who shines in a very small part.   And I was never really a Cameron Diaz fan but she steals every scene.  I was really stunned when I saw the very low ratings places like a Rotten Tomatoes which explains why I knew nothing about the movie and went in with no expectations.  

    Anyway, my verdict:  well worth the time.


    I'm (none / 0) (#108)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 10:03:16 AM EST

    Saw it (none / 0) (#125)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 10:15:23 PM EST
    Wow, Brad Pitt as a dumpy old cowboy :). Enjoyed it.  Quite an acting line up too.

    It really didn't have to be this way: (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 07:17:51 PM EST
    First, some tangential yet important legal background to the case of U.S. v. Naeem Williams, which concluded yesterday here in Honolulu:

    Back in October 1999, Hawaii Child Welfare Services (CWS) officials forcibly intervened to protect an abused 14-year-old male who resided in military housing at Pearl Harbor, by taking him into protective custody at Radford High School without first notifying the base command.

    In that particular case, a physical education instructor had inquired of the boy after class about the multiple deep bruises and black eyes he had been suffering of late. When he reluctantly confided that they were the result of repeated beatings at the hands of his own father, a U.S. Navy officer, the P.E. teacher immediately reported it to school administrators per state law, who in turn notified CWS. Upon further examination by local civilian physicians, the boy was also found to be suffering from multiple fractured ribs, a fractured vertebrae and a lacerated spleen.

    Federal Judge Susan Oki Mollway subsequently rejected the motion filed by both the Navy and the boy's father that he be returned to the family on grounds of improper custodial interference, in which they had argued that the State of Hawaii enjoyed no jurisdictional authority over events occurring on military property.

    She ruled that because the boy was a student in a Hawaii public school, and by evidence of his obviously serious injuries, CWS officials in fact had a compelling reason to move swiftly and judiciously to take the child into protective custody on state property, without first notifying the military chain of command at Pearl Harbor and seeking its permission before acting in what they perceived to be in the child's best interest.

    Opining that the timely intervention of both that Radford HS P.E. teacher and CWS might well have saved the boy's life, Judge Mollway further mandated that since the U.S. military had proved itself ill-suited to dealing with such issues by instead siding with the boy's alleged abuser, Dept. of Defense officials now had an obligation to report all allegations or suspicions of child abuse by military personnel occurring anywhere in the Hawaiian Islands to the State Dept. of Human Services, of which CWS is part. Her order was later formalized to that effect per a 2000 written agreement between the Pentagon and the State of Hawaii.

    Forward to today. By all accounts, 5-year-old Talia Williams suffered a most unhappy and brutal short life, having endured repeated instances of physical abuse at the hands of her stepmother Delilah Williams and her father, Army Spec. Naeem Williams, before finally being beaten to death in a most horrific manner by Spec. Williams in July 2005 at the Wheeler Army Airfield apartment complex in central Oahu, where the family resided.

    Further, officials with the U.S. Army's Family Advocacy Program had known of Talia's abuse for nearly a year, yet had conspicuously failed to do anything about it themselves. But more importantly, they had further failed to notify Hawaii Child Welfare Services of their suspicions and / or findings, in violation of Judge Mollway's aforementioned order and the 2000 agreement that they would do so. Talia's young life did not have to end this way.

    The Williamses were subsequently arrested by federal law enforcement and then charged with murder in Talia's death. Delilah Williams pleaded guilty and turned state's evidence against her husband in exchange for a 20-year sentence, after she alleged that she too had suffered physical abuse and had further been forced to participate in her late stepdaughter's abuse.

    After multiple delays over the last few years in bringing Spec. Williams' case to trial, a Honolulu federal jury last April finally found him guilty of capital murder in the beating death of his young daughter. But because federal prosecutors had sought the death penalty for Williams in this case, the trial's second sentencing phase commenced in May.

    And yesterday, the same Honolulu federal jury which had earlier convicted Williams of capital murder rejected the prosecution's argument that the defendant should be executed, and Federal Judge J. Michael Seabright is now obliged to sentence Williams to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

    While U.S. penal law provides for the death penalty in capital crimes in federal court (where Williams was tried), Hawaii had actually abolished capital punishment back in 1948, and poll after poll out here over the ensuing years has shown that a decided majority of island residents are opposed to its reinstatement.

    U.S. v. Naeem Williams marks the very first time that a Hawaii jury has been compelled to deliberate the matter of capital punishment since statehood was achieved in 1959. Why federal prosecutors would therefore even believe that they'd somehow be able to empanel a Hawaii jury that was unanimously predisposed to impose the ultimate punishment upon a defendant, I'll never know. Nevertheless, this jury saw to it that justice for Talia Williams was done here and her killer punished, without being overtly punitive nine years after the fact.

    So, rather than complain publicly that the Honolulu jury was too lenient on Spec. Williams, federal and military officials would instead be very well-advised to now take seriously the agreement about reporting allegations and suspicions of child abuse on military bases to state authorities, who have the experience, training and resources to do something about it.

    Because if the U.S. military doesn't do so of its own volition, Talia's mother Tarshia Williams -- a South Carolina resident -- has received the green light from Honolulu Federal Judge Alan Kay to proceed with a wrongful death lawsuit against the U.S. Army in the case of her late daughter.

    If it goes to trial, Tarshia Williams v. U.S. Dept. of Defense shows rich promise to shed some long overdue light on the unseemly and shameful manner in which Pentagon repeatedly fails to meet its obligations to protect military dependents from abuse and harm at the hands of its own personnel.

    Abused military dependents whose families are stationed in the islands are repeatedly suffering the adverse consequences of these constant rear guard actions being waged against Hawaii Child Welfare Services by those U.S. DOD officials who've heretofore been much more interested in defending their own command discretions, than in protecting young children who cannot defend themselves against abuse from their elders.

    As the haunting and not-soon-forgotten story of Talia Williams shows us, it really shouldn't be this way, nor should it be allowed to continue any longer.


    This is heart-breaking (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by Zorba on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 12:45:22 PM EST
    And it should never have happened.

    So will any military personnel... (none / 0) (#27)
    by unitron on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 06:04:59 AM EST
    ...who failed to obey that law about notifying Hawaii CWS be residing in any Hawaiian jails anytime soon?

    That's really up to the federal courts. (none / 0) (#67)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 03:12:42 PM EST
    But quite honestly, this is much more reflective of an ongoing institutional failure on the part of the Pentagon to meet its responsibilities to its own military dependents, than it is of any one specific individual to abide by a court order.

    Further, we should also realize that military personnel regularly rotate in and out of posts in two- to four-year cycles. If the U.S. Army failed to inform its own incoming Family Advocacy Program personnel upon arrival in Hawaii of a standing federal court order issued 15 years ago, which appears to have been the case here, is that the fault of those personnel for being unaware -- or of the Army itself?

    Finally, there is also the perpetual ongoing friction that exists between the U.S. military and civilian institutions, whenever their jurisdictions happen to come into contact with one another. For its part, the military has always been very zealous in guarding and defending its own institutional prerogatives, particularly those involving its command structure and hierarchy. In a city like Honolulu, where the military has long maintained an active and very substantial presence in our everyday life, questions and disputes regarding the respective legal jurisdictions of city / state and military / federal agencies actually arise quite common.

    It was really not all that long ago that the U.S. military refused to recognize any jurisdictional oversight of American civilian courts -- territorial, state and federal alike -- over those service personnel who were involved in criminal conduct occurring off-base, and would regularly invoke command's prerogative to try those personnel instead in courts-martial. Quite often, that merely resulted in the transfer of offending personnel to another locale elsewhere in the country, even in serious cases such as rape and homicide involving officers, which would often render the entire matter moot.

    In not a few instances, particularly in the former Territory of Hawaii, that policy led to some rather testy confrontations between parallel worlds and their respective notions of legal jurisprudence. And in the notorious Massie Affair of 1931-32, it resulted in an epic head-on collision which reverberated across the country and played out in the national media, and ultimately culminated in an especially egregious miscarriage of justice, the ramifications of which still impact island society even today.



    Happens all the time (none / 0) (#75)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 05:26:57 PM EST
    That someone's existing family situations do not follow them.  Often soldiers are moved around to encourage a loss of history if a commander feels a parent was falsely accused or being victimized by the system.

    There are "counselors" often assigned to families having problems too that the military employs.  Some bases and posts have agreements with local law enforcement that if they receive a family violence call off post, they must immediately notify the base or post command.  This usually pulls "the situation" out of the public realm and local law enforcement is told the military is taking responsibility for "this family situation". Then the family is handed off to "counselors" who often possess subpar skills, they consist of individuals who could not really cut it in the private sector....and they often come with assigned agendas handed down from the Pentagon.  For instance, in 2007 when back to back deployments were destroying family structure and sanity but we had a manpower shortage, their hidden agenda was to make soldiers having family problems look good enough to redeploy in 12 months on paper.


    All the more reason why ... (5.00 / 3) (#78)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 06:47:44 PM EST
    ... civil authorities need to assert their jurisdiction in such important matters. The welfare of military dependents has never been a priority with the Pentagon, and it shows in the results we're seeing. We have to deal with this stuff constantly out here in the islands.

    And as the State of Hawaii has made clear to the Pentagon and in federal court, the military and civilian communities are highly intertwined out here, and if the Dept. of Defense can't or won't deal appropriately with the issue of domestic violence on its posts, then it should allow our State Dept. of Human Services to do so. Because on an island like Oahu, what happens on base doesn't necessarily stay there.



    It has never been highly functional (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 04:35:15 PM EST
    For what happens on base to stay there, and allow commanders to mete out justice.  That "legal system" has bred our current sexual assault crisis.  I don't think commanders need to rule on anything outside a war zone other than soldiers at work issues.

    Once any action moves into personal violations, physical assaults, sexual assaults, soldiers and their families need and deserve the civilian legal system and its more numerous checks and balances on power and abuse of authority.


    Civilian agencies generally ... (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 05:27:23 PM EST
    ... have more experience and resources necessary to handle these sorts of situations, than does the military. The Pentagon is never going to be a social services agency, and IMHO it's foolish to expect that they will, any more than they should take on the role of a school board at base locales.

    Out here, the military contracts with the State of Hawaii to provide for the education of military dependents. The majority of students at Radford High School, which I mentioned above, are Navy and Air Force kids. If it makes sense to contract out dependent education, why not social services as well?



    Because you can't fudge or lose (none / 0) (#97)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 06:18:10 PM EST
    Paperwork and reports then Donald.  During your next manpower/PTSD crisis the public may end up knowing too much too soon as well.

    The loser in an Okla.. (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by desertswine on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 12:10:10 PM EST
    primary race feels he should get all of his opponent's votes because his opponent...   is a robot!!  

    The last time I saw this (none / 0) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 02:11:31 PM EST
    He was saying he was replaced by a body double.  Moving on to robot is definitely taking it to the next level.

    And the next level after that: (none / 0) (#64)
    by Zorba on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 03:02:11 PM EST
    He will be moving on to Zombie.  OMG!  It must be the Zombie Apocalypse!     ;-)
    The amazing thing to me is that there were actually 5%+ of the Republican Primary voters who voted for this lunatic.

    Dadler is on the Disabled List (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by Dadler on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 12:45:00 PM EST
    The T.L.D.L., if you will. I've been largely absent for a few weeks now after having blown out my L5/S1 disk. Again. The same one that ruptured a decade ago and gave me a dropped foot and the cool limp I gait around on now. It's numbed up my foot a little more, bit doesn't seem to have done anything more serious, except hurt like sh*t 24/7. Hopefully, and most likely the disk gets better on its own, and my body reabsorbs that jelly-like interior disk material that bursts out with a rupture. Mmm, tasty.

    I don't want to think about having to consider surgery again, and I'm not even sure I'd risk it, since it didn't bring my foot and lower leg back the first time. Who the eff knows. But the feeling of my disk exploding, phuck me, I really didn't want to experience that again. Sigh.

    So it's painkillers and physical therapy for a few more weeks, blah. Only good thing is I've been through this so many times I don't need to get in the car and drive to physical therapy, I can do it all at home. Heat, stretch, electro-stim, stretch again, ice a bit. Repeat.

    Hopefully I'll return to my regularly annoying self soon enough. Peace out, y'all.

    Best wishes. We miss you! (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 01:05:45 PM EST
    Good luck Dadler, stay positive. (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by desertswine on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 01:40:57 PM EST
    Best of luck, D.! (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Zorba on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 02:59:05 PM EST
    I hope that you feel better soon!
    Namaste, my brother.

    Hang in there (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 03:32:26 PM EST
    Sending healing thoughts and wishes (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 03:35:03 PM EST
    Ouch! (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 03:56:15 PM EST
    Get well soon.

    I thought this place was feeling... (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by unitron on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 07:43:14 AM EST
    ...slightly out of balance lately--now I know why.

    Best wishes for an optimal outcome.


    Whoa, Dadler. Such bad news. (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by caseyOR on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 10:40:03 AM EST
    I join others in wishing you a speedy recovery. Back problems can be so frustrating because, well, the back s pretty essential to movement. Also, there is so much disagreement over what are the best treatment options.

    I hope you recover without having to resort to surgery.

    In the meantime, drop in when you can. The Dadler aesthetic is an important part of the TL ecosystem.


    Three (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 02:22:41 PM EST
    recent dinner at friend's in Portland (5.00 / 4) (#59)
    by ZtoA on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 02:25:12 PM EST
    We sat out in their small and beautiful garden. While having a roaring conversation about how to make, and perfect making animal noises and what conversations we might have in our respective animal voices, it started to sprinkle. No one minded and by that time we were laughing pretty hard. Then it started to rain lightly, which was slightly annoying so our host got the sun umbrella which shielded our heads but not our backsides and carried on that way. After a while one guest started to get a pretty wet backside and we finally decided to move inside. Odd, but it was my first time actually having a nice dinner in the rain.

    I used to sleep on my back deck which I loved. Only problem was waking up soaking from a -not very- surprise rain. Risks are involved in enjoying the wild outdoors.

    My niece and I sat on a deck (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 08:55:34 PM EST
    looking at downtown San Diego from Coronado. Then the fog obliterated most of the view think Steichen. Then it started raining. The cute young waiter asked my beautiful niece repeatedly, may I move you to an inside table. We said no, we'll finish our bottle of wine out here under the sun umbrella. But eventually all the water collected by that umbrella rolled off onto me!

    We had almost that same experience ... (none / 0) (#81)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 01:33:56 AM EST
    ... 10 years ago at Bertrand at Mister A's, which (as you probably know) overlooks downtown San Diego, the harbor, Coronado, the airport and Point Loma from 5th and Laurel on Banker's Hill. It didn't rain when the marine layer rolled in but it got rather chilly, so we took the captain up on his offer to relocate us indoors.

    Whenever we're down in San Diego, I like to go to Mister A's to watch the sunset and enjoy that view, with the planes gliding in between the downtown highrises and Banker's Hill on their final approach to the airport down below. When we first started going in the mid-1990s, there used to be umbrellas on the patio, but apparently after more than a few of them ended up downstairs on 5th Ave. on really windy days, the city understandably requested that they be removed.

    The ambience is excellent, but as far as the service goes, let's just say that they've been known to take their time, so I wouldn't recommend the place if you're on a rigid schedule. And while the food is good, the establishment's fare as a whole is certainly nothing special. But it's the restaurant's spectacular views that make it all well worth it.



    I kind of miss the funkiness of amr. A's, though. (none / 0) (#84)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 08:43:47 AM EST
    Men required to wear jackets, but, hey, no ptoblem, we've got some loaners. Red velvet flocked wallpaper. All waitresses in long togas and chignons.  Killer Monte Cristo sandwich.  

    My current fave is the outside deck at C-Level Island Prime on Harbor Island.


    I'll need to check that out ... (none / 0) (#93)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 02:40:58 PM EST
    ... the next time I'm in town, perhaps in late August.

    Perhaps we could have a mini-TL (none / 0) (#124)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 01:40:10 PM EST
    meet-up @ C-Level. Happy Hour gnoshing is very tasty there.

    That would be cool. (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 01, 2014 at 03:12:50 PM EST
    I'll give you a head's up the next time I'm heading to SoCal, which might be after I finish me next round of chemo. I'll have to see how I'm feeling. But I've always enjoyed San Diego, and a visit there could be therapeutic.

    Godd. And best wishes. (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 01, 2014 at 04:24:16 PM EST
    KQED burning man video (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 10:58:11 AM EST
    Arkansas GOP Official Resigns After Saying Hillary (none / 0) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 03:18:25 PM EST
    "Would Get Shot At The State Line"

    I'm betting he was so used to saying this kind of stuff about the president that he was gobbsmacked when there was pushback.

    Well (none / 0) (#2)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 03:20:30 PM EST
    aren't both of them still popular there? I doubt anything would have happened if he had said Obama.

    Of course nothing would have (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 03:23:36 PM EST
    Happened if he said it about Obama.  They are popular with some.   And hated every bit as much as Obama by others.  

    Oh, I'm sure (none / 0) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 03:44:56 PM EST
    you have the haters there too. But I was thinking this kind of comment would have been acceptable when it came to Obama becuase 1. He's not from AR. 2. Hillary was first lady at one time etc.

    And let's just say it (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 03:46:22 PM EST
    She is white

    Okay (none / 0) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 04:03:06 PM EST
    The GOP there is every bit as bad as it is here then.

    Does the Secret Service investigate (none / 0) (#10)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 04:00:34 PM EST
    these threats at all?  Because they are authorized to protect former Presidents and their spouses.

    I hope they did (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 04:16:37 PM EST
    Water, A Human Right? (none / 0) (#18)
    by squeaky on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 05:24:43 PM EST
    Detroit does not think so...
    A right-wing state and corporate push to cut off water is economic shock therapy at its most ruthless and racist, but resistance is growing

    It was six in the morning when city contractors showed up unannounced at Charity Hicks' house.

    Since spring, up to 3000 Detroit households per week have been getting their water shut-off - for owing as little as $150 or two months in bills. Now it was the turn of Charity's block - and the contractor wouldn't stand to wait an hour for her pregnant neighbour to fill up some jugs.

    "Where's your water termination notice?" Charity demanded, after staggering to the contractor's truck. A widely-respected African-American community leader, she has been at the forefront of campaigns to ensure Detroiters' right to public, accessible water.

    The contractor's answer was to drive away, knocking Charity over and injuring her leg. Two white policemen soon arrived - not to take her report, but to arrest her. Mocking Charity for questioning the water shut-offs, they brought her to jail, where she spent two days before being released without charge.

    Welcome to Detroit's water war - in which upward of 150,000 customers, late on bills that have increased 119 percent in the last decade, are now threatened with shut-offs. Local activists estimate this could impact nearly half of Detroit's mostly poor and black population - between 200,000 and 300,000 people.

    The Guardian

    Report: Mexican Military Chopper crosses (none / 0) (#19)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 05:27:06 PM EST
    Jupiter Ascending (none / 0) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 07:26:32 PM EST
    new Wachowskis' film
    Delayed till next year but worth the wait

    Saturday, June 28, 2014 ... (none / 0) (#26)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 04:45:36 AM EST
    ... marks the 100th anniversary of the assassination of the heir presumptive to the Austro-Hungarian throne, Archduke Franz Ferdinand, and his wife, Duchess Sophia of Hohenberg, at the hands of Bosnian Serb nationalists in Sarajevo.

    The killing of the royal couple set off a hair-triggered chain reaction in Europe among the intertwined alliances, and five weeks later, Germany and Austria-Hungary were at war with Serbia, Montenegro, the Russian Empire, France, Belgium and the British Empire. Eventually, almost all the major powers across the globe were sucked into the vortex of what's now known as the First World War.

    And when the guns finally fell silent and the smoke cleared in November 1918, about 18 million people were dead, another 20 million had been wounded or were missing, and four major powers -- Imperial Germany, Austria-Hungary, Imperial Russia and the Ottoman Empire -- ceased to exist.


    Presidential Debate (none / 0) (#42)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 11:17:15 AM EST
    alternative:  Rather than the present format of a debate between Republican and Democratic presidential contenders, one focused on foreign affairs and the other, domestic, I suggest the following for foreign affairs:

    The candidates are seated at  separate desks and given a pen and two-pages of paper (or a laptop, ipad or iphone-- if the Republican candidate is familiar with such technology). The moderator presents this question: "Summarize your understanding of  the causes of the "Great War,"  the pros and cons of the re-mapping of the Ottoman and Austro-Hungary empires at its conclusion and the impacts and impingements on modern foreign policy."

    This challenge is followed by a musical interlude of 30 minutes, after which the candidates present their essays to the viewing audience.  

    Note No.l: a third page may be requested if the Republican candidate is Rick Perry and he can remember his third point.  Note No.2.  this format does not apply to the Republican presidential primary debates, they need to be kept the same  as the past is likely to be their comfort zone and, of course,  for the sheer entertainment value.


    Barbara Tuchman's version or (none / 0) (#50)
    by christinep on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 01:13:27 PM EST
    something else?  Because ... have you noticed, sometimes, that the more removed in time we get from an event (and, particularly, the most significant events) the more revisionist theories creep into the mix.

    World War I (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 02:12:51 PM EST
    stands as one of history's most senseless spasms of carnage that continues to test explanations for its rationality.  And, with haunting echos for today.  The "Guns of August" is an epic study of the path to that war; but what would be not only interesting, but also, revelatory, would be the understanding and interpretations, revisionisms and all, of a candidate aspiring to be president.

    The defining event of the 20th Century (none / 0) (#60)
    by desertswine on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 02:45:01 PM EST
    The best explanation for World War I ... (none / 0) (#72)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 03:54:13 PM EST
    ... is that the socio-economic and political situations as they had evolved in Europe to that point in time had rendered a massive bloodletting between the major powers inevitable. After all, those sorts of unfortunate occurrences broke out in Europe every couple of generations or so for the better part of two millenia.

    That the "Great War" ultimately assumed the epic scale of a no-quarter death struggle that it became, was what proved so shocking and dumbfounding to most people, both back then and now. After all, Europeans countries had long regularly pummelled and even bludgeoned one another from time to time, and then it was done and both sides moved on until the next go-round. But this time, the four major powers I cited prior were not only vanquished, but liquidated as well.



    That's a cheap laugh. (none / 0) (#70)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 03:33:01 PM EST
    Most people today would easily be tripped up on the question of whose side Italy and Japan joined during the First World War -- the Allies or the Central Powers?

    Yes, America is not (none / 0) (#74)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 04:53:58 PM EST
    a country of historians.  And, maybe, some might even be tripped up on whether Japan or Italy were part of the Axis or Allies in WWII.- especially so, in the case of Italy. However, a candidate for president should have a knowledge of critical historical happenings, such as wars, that may impact present day foreign policy.  

    Absolutely. (none / 0) (#77)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 06:31:37 PM EST
    But if the overall quality of candidates for public office has generally degraded over the last 30 years, it's especially pronounced in the party which regularly ridicules and dismisses as trivial and inconsequential such intellectual pursuits as the study of history and literature.

    The aforementioned Rick Perry stands as Exhibit A-1; that know-nothing douchesack isn't fit to serve on a local highway board or water commission, never mind as governor of Texas for 15 years.



    Yeah, (none / 0) (#82)
    by unitron on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 07:28:47 AM EST
    ...if only Texas had kept the previous douchesack in the Governorship instead for all those years, it likely wouldn't have been any worse for them and the country as a whole would have been a lot better off.

    That's for sure. (none / 0) (#94)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 02:51:54 PM EST
    Eventually, Texas voters' collective habit of doubling down on stupid is going to catch up with them in a big way, and it probably won't be pretty.

    Ga6thDem and MT (none / 0) (#31)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 08:47:08 AM EST
    If you're planning a meetup in Atlanta you should take in a concert at the Fox Theater or Chastain Park, two of the premier venues in the South. And if you convince oculus and kdog to travel they can see Ratdog again in August.

    I would not cross the street to (none / 0) (#39)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 10:06:36 AM EST
    see Ratjdog again. But arobert Spano,...

    Gail Collins nails it again: (none / 0) (#40)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 10:10:26 AM EST
    Collins nails it with this (none / 0) (#41)
    by caseyOR on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 10:22:33 AM EST

    Or corporations. We keep being told they're people, but if they were people who could reproduce, I guarantee you contraceptives would not only be free, there would be a tax break for taking them.

    And this penultimate par.: (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 01:07:30 PM EST
    Once again, we are reminded that men do not get pregnant.

    Not Yet (none / 0) (#54)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 02:09:29 PM EST
    The references are the best part (none / 0) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 02:18:00 PM EST
    Dick Teresi (1994-11-27). "How To Get A Man Pregnant". The New York Times.

    Men can have babies; Study still in infancy though: Expert

    "A Womb Of His Own". Snopes.com. 2008-05-09.


    I was quite startled at the airport last (none / 0) (#61)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 02:50:24 PM EST
    when the male of a twenty-something couple went over to the female, said I will change the baby's diaper.  He got the necessary stuff out of a backpack and he and baby departed. Amazing b

    Daughter? (none / 0) (#62)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 02:55:22 PM EST
    Dads who equally divided the drudgery of household chores with their wives tended to have daughters whose "when I grow up" aspirations were less gender-stereotypical, suggests an upcoming paper in Psychological Science.



    Yes. Definitely co-parenting. (none / 0) (#66)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 03:11:18 PM EST
    Hmmmmm (none / 0) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 05:56:55 PM EST
    new computer could revolutionize computing

    It won't let me cut and paste but it's worth a look

    Lengthy article in today's (none / 0) (#89)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 12:08:42 PM EST
    NYT re military (as distinguished from VA) medical system. Not encouraging.

    Needed (none / 0) (#92)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 02:28:11 PM EST
    Oscar Pistorius (none / 0) (#103)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 07:25:53 AM EST
    Not mentally incapacitated during the shooting

    According to the findings by an independent panel of doctors, Pistorius did not suffer from a mental defect or mental illness at the "time of the commission of the offense that would have rendered him criminally not responsible of the offenses charged."

    The report added that "Mr Pistorius was capable of appreciating the wrongfulness of his act."

    Hobby Lobby case in (none / 0) (#110)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 10:07:28 AM EST
    Ruling for Hobby Lobby, limited to closely held corporations.

    Narrow ruling, but I don't see numbers.

    5-4 (none / 0) (#112)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 10:09:09 AM EST
    Alito writing.  Unbelievable.

    Btw Ginsgerg (none / 0) (#113)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 10:10:03 AM EST
    Disagrees strongly with the narrowness part

    Another company I won't be patronizing. (none / 0) (#120)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 11:20:29 AM EST
    The list is growing.

    If I were one of their competitors (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 11:40:03 AM EST
    I know what ad campaign I would be pushing, knowing that probably 90% or more of my potential customers are women who are using or have used birth control.

    Hobby Lobby (none / 0) (#111)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 10:08:10 AM EST
    Wins.  Sorry if someone already posted this.  What a world.

    I just hope it brings us one step closer (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 10:14:04 AM EST
    to getting corporations out of the health-care provider role. They are not to be trusted.

    It might (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 10:20:47 AM EST
    It might also get more women to the polls in NOV.

    New report on military dependent healthcare (none / 0) (#122)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 11:44:42 AM EST
    Spelled out what I already knew, it is subpar too :). Closed system, breeds the reality and even the acceptance that nobody can make anyone accountable.

    I'm sure Hobby Lobby has no qualms (5.00 / 3) (#116)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 10:18:33 AM EST
    about accepting money from women on birth control.

    ruffian: think numbers (none / 0) (#128)
    by christinep on Tue Jul 01, 2014 at 05:31:04 PM EST
    The Supreme Court's nine has been splitting 5 to 4--with a Conservative dominated majority--for the big cases in the past few years.  

    Elsewhere I posted my view about the starkly obvious outgrowth of the SCt's decision in Citizens United wherein the conservative 5 defined a "corporation" as a "person."  Much as the yesterday's Hobby Lobby decision was troublesome in many ways, the same conservative 5 used the "corporation as person" fiction as the heart of the decision.  From lifting campaign finance restrictions for corporations to imposing non-profit religious preferences as a basis for contraception coverage to ???.

    IMO this is all about strengthening the role and rule of corporations.  Bit by bit, the Roberts Court seems on a path to create & enlarge the rights of corporations at the expense of every real person, group who might otherwise stand in the way.  I truly expect an incremental chipping away at the rights of all Unions in the coming years ... in politics, see Wisconsin's approach under Governor Scott Walker & in law, see yesterday's other big case announcement involving part-time healthcare workers (Harris case.)  In future, we should not be surprised under the "person" definition that corporations may push for protections under the 4th Amendment that would negate health & safety inspections by claiming that enforcement neutral inspections approaches that have long been used and judicially approved would now be insufficient to protect them from overreaching searches & seizures ... because, wouldn't ya' know, they are "persons" after all.  BTW, the impact of that on OSHA, FDA, EPA and the general regulatory schema for enforcement agencies would be nothing short of destructive.  

    Yep, think the numbers.  Think where the 5 has signaled loudly that it is heading with the "person" corporation.  Think what it means for many Americans in many walks of life.  THEN: Remember that elections have consequences ... remember those appointments ... and remember that any legislative fixes require numbers too.  This is why, ultimately, the vote is important.  It matters.