Open Thread: The Friendly Skies

Larger version here

Planes sure are getting smaller these days. This one, which I flew on yesterday, seats 18. Yes it was loud and the wind blew it around sideways and up and down, but no one seemed nervous. I fly back on it tonight.

These little planes fly out of local airports, not Denver International. I think it's the first flight I've been on since 9/11 where there was no metal detector or bag searches, for either passengers, carry-on or checked luggage.[More...]

The price sure beats the regular airlines as well. RT from Denver to Grand Junction is now $850.00, an absurd amount for a one hour flight. On these public charter planes, the fare is $300 round trip.

Of course, the best thing is not to have to fly at all. I quit flying in 2008 due to the hassle and inconvenience flying had become, and since then, have taken maybe 4 flights. I'm going to try and go the rest of 2014 without getting on another airplane.

I'll be back to blogging tomorrow.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    JB (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 12:15:49 PM EST
    every go to Greenfield Village/Henry Ford Museum ?

    The collection includes the first Mustang and the very last Model T ever made (and if Model T's are your thing, you can even tour the grounds in one). There are also sobering exhibits: the actual 1961 Lincoln Continental convertible in which JFK was assassinated and the bus in which Rosa Parks sat when she sparked the Civil Rights Movement. But Greenfield Village's real strength is how it reflects Ford's own nostalgia for bygone enterprise. Set within it are original buildings that he bought and then had reassembled on-site--including the Illinois courthouse where Abraham Lincoln practiced law and a Cape Cod windmill (one of the oldest in the country, built in 1633 in Massachusetts)--and a re-creation of Thomas Edison's New Jersey laboratory, birthplace of the lightbulb. Baseball fans can catch a game by the museum's home team, the Lah-De-Dahs, who play by the rules of the late 1800s (with uniforms to match), while food lovers can explore one of the property's four farms, where nineteenth-century cooking techniques--glass-jar canning, sausage making, pickling, and hog butchering--are replicated in careful detail. After walking amid the massive collection of artifacts, you can't help but appreciate the tidal wave of change its founder--the father of mass production--brought to the American way of life.

    That is a trip and someplace I want to check out, why have I never heard of this place.

    I have been there (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by jbindc on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 12:30:29 PM EST
    But it's (shamefully) been many, many years.  Our 5th grade trip was to go there and stay overnight!

    If you become a member of The Henry Ford, they even have nights in the summer, after the Village closes, where you can drive actual Mode-T's!

    I would highly recommend this as a trip - plan for at least a day and half or two days as the Village takes at least a day to really see and the Museum also takes a while.

    While you visit Dearborn, you can also visit the Ford Rouge plant - part museum and part actual working auto plant where the F-150s are made.

    (And then you can end your trip by visiting Detroit, despite the bad press, where there is fabulous cuisine and 3 casinos.  Or go south  to Canada where you can eat great food and [wait for it] enjoy the casino!)


    It is hard (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Mikado Cat on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 11:16:18 PM EST
    to believe that anybody really thinks there is a serious risk of another 9/11 type event via hijacked jet. What we need are politician with enough guts to say the tiny amount of reduced risk is not worth the cost in lost freedoms and dump about 90% of the baloney.

    BTW nothing beats owning and flying your own plane. I wonder if some day the dream of flight available to the common person of the 1950's will ever be realized? The ease and low cost of commercial flights pushed it away 30 years ago at the same time costs in private planes were rising and its never recovered much.

    I don't know about private (none / 0) (#45)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 01:22:00 PM EST
    but this shows how much fares have dropped.

    When I first started flying for business reasons - no one I knew actually flew for a pleasure - ladies wore their finery and men were in suits and ties.

    And a "sleeper" seat was two drinks and flipped up arm rests for a JFK to Brussels ride.

    Deregulation brought us cheap fares and frequent flyer programs with upgrades to First and free tickets to all the warm places we had heard about.

    Problem is this, as the link shows. Fares bottomed out and now are rising. At what point the public will just say no I haven't the vaguest.


    I don't know about private (none / 0) (#46)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 01:23:01 PM EST
    but this shows how much fares have dropped.

    When I first started flying for business reasons - no one I knew actually flew for a pleasure - ladies wore their finery and men were in suits and ties.

    And a "sleeper" seat was two drinks and flipped up arm rests for a JFK to Brussels ride.

    Deregulation brought us cheap fares and frequent flyer programs with upgrades to First and free tickets to all the warm places we had heard about.

    Problem is this, as the link shows. Fares bottomed out and now are rising. At what point the public will just say no I haven't the vaguest.


    I've been (none / 0) (#47)
    by Mikado Cat on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 10:31:08 PM EST
    on much nicer buses than the last couple of flights on major airlines.

    OTOH wife got bumped to first class recently and says its NICE. I can't imagine myself ever being willing to pay full first class fare, but I can see demanding it from an employer making you travel more than X miles and head into something important without a day to shake off the lag.


    Before deregulation (none / 0) (#52)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 12:35:30 PM EST
    very few employers paid for FC except for the upper level execs.

    But then again, coach was nicer than some FC flights I've been on lately and a full a/c was unusual.

    Besides that, a lot of the Flight Attendants hung out in the aft galley..

    or so I've been told



    News reporting that Mexico claims arrest (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Peter G on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 11:27:15 AM EST
    of most-wanted Sinaloa drug kingpin Joaquin Guzman a/k/a El Chapo.

    I could be wrong (none / 0) (#1)
    by CoralGables on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 08:21:18 AM EST
    but isn't it Friday?

    I thought it was Thursday (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by jbindc on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 08:54:54 AM EST
    On Tuesday, so that tells you what kind of week I've had!

    It better be. (none / 0) (#3)
    by Anne on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 09:40:47 AM EST
    Although, with the way work has gotten so busy, and everyone seems to be wanting everything to be a priority, all the arrival of Friday means is that - oh, joy! - I'm one day closer to Monday. Again.

    Two days off just isn't enough.


    I haven't taken a flight for quite a while now. (none / 0) (#4)
    by vml68 on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 09:54:26 AM EST
    But, my husband flies at least a couple of times a week for work. He hates the pat downs.

    BTW, can I just say that the NY DMV sucks!

    DMV strikes again eh? (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 10:07:35 AM EST
    I was there yesterday...truly a circle of hell.

    Did you notice they're going gangbusters reviewing identification documents now?  They had a beef with my social security card all of a sudden...it's been through the washing machine a couple times and part of my middle name is no longer visible, though my first and last and SS number are clear.  The DMV clerk was saying "the names need to match perfectly, I can't accept this!". I was ready to blow my stack but I had another form on me that was acceptable, and the clerk made pretend she didn't see my newly "suspect" social security card.  

    More so than the DMV, the paper/identification addiction we've got going really sucks!  It's another sign of extreme societal paranoia and collective insanity.


    Hey MrK! Your ears must have been burning, (none / 0) (#9)
    by vml68 on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 11:23:23 AM EST
    I've been sending some choice words your way... ;-)

    A couple of weeks ago we were headed to Flushing and I remembered your pizza recommendation. So, instead of taking the 7 train like we usually do, we decided to drive so we could swing by the pizza place for lunch. There were cops directing traffic on Delancey St just before the Williamsburg bridge. One cop waved us through a red light, so my husband went through that one and then there was another cop ahead waving cars through a second red light. Well, there was another red light between these two and my husband went through it assuming it was OK. Got pulled over immediately and got a $278 ticket. The cop just laughed at us the whole time, he knew we got suckered. While my husband sat there  fuming, the cop was Mr Friendly, asking us where we were headed, giving us directions (not that we needed any) and chatting with us about our plans for the day and told us to have a fun day! I was tempted to tell him that he had just ruined it but answered him politely. The cussing didn't start till he was out of earshot! Anyway, our appetites were ruined and we skipped the pizza.

    I have been trying to pay the ticket online for the past few days and it kept giving me an error. I haven't been able to get through on the phone to the DMV because their line is always busy. I finally got through this morning only to spend an hour on hold. I was then told that even though the ticket says we have to respond in 15 days (not to mention the cop told my husband that his license would be susupended if he did not respond within 15 days), the DMV takes about 3-4 weeks to actually put the ticket online, so we have to wait till they get around to it. I was annoyed at how long it took me to actually get to speak to someone at the DMV. I was ready to break something after I spoke to them.

    Has it not occurred to anyone working there to put that info under FAQs on their website?  It would save a lot of time and frustration on both sides!

    OK, I'm done venting now. I feel so much better... :-)!


    Sorry you missed the pizza after all that (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by ruffian on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 10:28:58 AM EST
    Maybe it would have taken a little bit of the sting out of it. Out of the sting, I should say.

    Egads... (none / 0) (#16)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 12:00:58 PM EST
    I'm sorry V...but you shoulda at least got the pizza, it tastes like it's worth 300 bucks a pie!

    I freeze like a deer in the headlights when a flatfoot waves me through a redlight...with all these cameras I always think it's a set-up...and you've gone and proved me right, it can be!  Bastards.

    De Blasio is touting traffic safety early with a bunch of ideas to "improve safety" aka rack up fines ...it could get a lot uglier out there on that front.


    If you can, you should plead not guilty (none / 0) (#17)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 12:05:05 PM EST
    and explain what happened by snail mail via "trial by written declaration." If they have that in MY.

    I did that recently here in CA and won my case vs the CHP.


    At the very least (none / 0) (#20)
    by jbindc on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 12:10:11 PM EST
    They may knock down the fine just because you took the time to write them and argue.

    I don't know if you can do that here. (none / 0) (#23)
    by vml68 on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 12:28:07 PM EST
    In any case, I would rather just pay it and be done with it. I have heard too many stories of judges increasing the fines here in NJ and in NYC, when you plead not guilty and they decide that you are guilty.

    Fight for your rights. (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 01:19:48 PM EST
    Agreed... (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 01:48:23 PM EST
    ...but traffic court is like the Lord of the Flies of the criminal justice system.

    One time in southern Texas, I got pulled over and taken to 'court' which involved a large corporate like boardroom, the sheriff that pulled my over, the judge, and me.  When all was said and done, my friend had hit the ATM for a lot of cash or I would have spent the weekend in jail.

    All for going around 10 mph over the speed limit.  I think the only thing that saved me was them bringing in some fugitive that was wanted in another state.  Granted, I was young and stupid, but they were serious about keeping me for the weekend.

    Later, I recognized the county, it's where Cheney shot his good friend.  About as Good Old Boys as you get down there.

    In my mind, if you don't have a lawyer, don't show up in traffic court thinking you are going to do yourself a favor.


    Ha! Sometimes it is just not worth it. (none / 0) (#31)
    by vml68 on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 02:14:55 PM EST

    Sadly, you are correct. (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 04:16:30 PM EST
    The system is rigged against you, cops especially.

    The other night there were some cops making an arrest in my neighborhood and I gave them sh!t for practically blinding me by jacking me in the eyes with their 10,000W flashlight as I drove by going to my house, like I was a criminal.

    I parked, got out, and had a nice argument with them which resulted in them, well, not apologizing, but they did back down.

    My neighbor watched the whole thing and now he keeps calling me "his hero."


    Till I started reading TL, I did not think (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by vml68 on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 08:54:26 PM EST
    twice about arguing with cops.
    In my 20s, my lead foot used to get me pulled over on a regular basis. The cops were always friendly and polite and I would get off with a warning and no ticket.
    My boyfriend at the time was also a speed demon. One time he got pulled over and after checking his license, etc. the cop came back and asked him to get out of the car. After inquiring why, we were told that there was an arrest warrant out on his name. We had no idea what it was about and totally freaked out. When the cop handcuffed my boyfriend, I was so mad, I started screaming at the cop. I had no idea at the time that it was standard practice. I always assumed handcuffs were for criminals. The cop must have spent a good 10 mins calming me down. The whole time I was cursing him, he stayed calm and professional. Never once did he threaten me or tell me that he could arrest me and I was too ignorant to know that he could.

    Now, everytime I read horror stories about cops, I am amazed by how lucky I have been. Especially considering I am not white.


    IMHO (5.00 / 3) (#57)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Feb 24, 2014 at 09:21:43 AM EST
    I think the problem largely is that the good cops refuse to do anything about the bad cops that are out there and it takes an outcry from the public in some miscarriage of justice where a lot of times lives have already been ruined to do something about it.

    Good for (none / 0) (#38)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 06:49:59 PM EST
    you for standing up for yourself!

    Fortunately you were not arrested. You must (none / 0) (#51)
    by oculus on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 10:47:25 AM EST
    Have been very polite and no officer ordered you to leave.

    He did at one point order me to leave, (none / 0) (#53)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 08:12:23 PM EST
    but, I believe, he quickly realized he was being a dumbass and that it was better to talk it out than make a bad situation worse.

    What is the law regarding a cop ordering someone to leave?


    Law enforcement has discretion to issue a (none / 0) (#55)
    by oculus on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 11:22:26 PM EST
    Summons for a misdemeanor and if you refuse to sign it:  book and release.

    Good to know. (none / 0) (#60)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Feb 24, 2014 at 05:37:10 PM EST
    If I'm not mistaken... (none / 0) (#29)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 01:43:30 PM EST
    your only options in NY are to pay, or plead not guilty and have to miss a day of work going to court.

    But most people I know have had success going this route, pleading to a lesser charge & fine.  Whether the savings of the fine offsets a missed day of work or lost vacation day or the time spent is another question.


    Yep. Plead guilty and pay or plead not guilty (none / 0) (#33)
    by vml68 on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 02:23:52 PM EST
    and waste a day in court only to find out that you still have to pay and more than likely pay more than the initial fine.

    Anyway, my husband is the one who got the ticket. I count myself lucky if he can go a whole Saturday or Sunday without having to work. Taking a week day off work for traffic court? Never gonna happen. I have better odds of winning the lottery.


    Forgot to say, have fun at (none / 0) (#10)
    by vml68 on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 11:29:20 AM EST
    the Bob Weir and RatDog show tonight. Their show in Montclair, NJ last night was sold out. It was their 900th show!

    It's tomorrow night... (none / 0) (#15)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 11:57:21 AM EST
    but I wish we were going to tonights...I'm stoked!  Some of the rcent setlists have some real gems.

    Tonight I put on my apron and take my first stab at chocolatiering...barring a flopout (which is quite possible;), I hope to have some raspberry walnut choco-cannabis bars in the party pack tomorrow.  I was gonna try and make them last night, but I was stuck at the f*ckin' DMV much longer than I'd hoped.  


    The chocolate bars sound good with or (none / 0) (#19)
    by vml68 on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 12:09:22 PM EST
    without the cannabis!
    I thought the show in Westbury was just tonight. Didn't know they had one tomorrow too. Hope you have a great time!

    Prop Jobs... (none / 0) (#6)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 10:17:57 AM EST
    ...are great until it gets windy, then they are little more like an amusement ride when landing.

    When I fly up to my parents I need to take one, always reminds me of a flying Greyhound Bus but with drink service.  The Central Wisconsin Airport takes about 10 seconds to get through security, stand up, walk through 1970's meal detector, then through the door and onto the tarmac.

    Ryan Braun (none / 0) (#7)
    by CoralGables on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 10:56:57 AM EST
    Two years and some 50 yards removed from the site of a remarkable 2012 news conference in which he proclaimed his innocence and attacked his detractors, Ryan Braun stood in the shade at Maryvale Baseball Park and said he was sorry.

    Hard to believe people fell for his accusations and wanted to accuse the collector of spiking the sample claiming a Cubs fan was "out to get" the Brewers star. But Ryan Braun has paid his dues and returns to the Brewers after his 65 game suspension for PED's.

    Still waiting for a commenter or two here to admit they were completely suckered.

    Who was suckered? (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 11:09:58 AM EST
    It was always a  likely "likely story", but enough to raise reasonable doubt in my mind.  If you're gonna hold careers & livelyhoods in little vials of piss, ya certainly can't be f8ckin' around with the vials of piss chain.

    Right... (none / 0) (#13)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 11:51:53 AM EST
    ...and what is the point of having protocols if you aren't going to follow them.

    Granted I am from Wisconsin, but the first time he tested positive he wasn't 'convicted' because of a technicality.  Which really means, in that instance, the very protocols the MBA designed, weren't followed.

    In my mind, when ever they get popped they did it with regards to steroids, but in reality, they need more than me and my quick judgement.  They need to have followed all the rules, and if they didn't, that is on them, the people who developed the protocols, not the players/lawyers who point out that they didn't follow their own rules.

    It's just like the law, you don't follow protocols, like say Miranda, and that evidence is out.  We call it a technicality, but those protocols are there to ensure guilt is nearly certain, not just assumed.

    But I never defended Braun, just glad that we wasn't suspended the first time around, when the Brew seemed to be making a descent run, at least for them.


    Arguing protocol (none / 0) (#18)
    by CoralGables on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 12:07:50 PM EST
    and accusing someone of spiking a sample are two different animals.

    Right... (none / 0) (#25)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 12:40:02 PM EST
    ...but the argument could not have been made had protocol been followed.

    Speaking of, this is first time I have heard of the 'Cubs spiked it' reasoning  It's always been about the mishandled the sample, at the shipping company, I believe.  If I remember right, they lost the chain of custody, which is a protocol that all drug tests follow.

    Do you have a link with Braun making this accusation, when I Google it the only source I even recognize is Breitbart and I wasn't going to click on that.

    Again, I am not defending him, nor did I back when it happened, just saying it's news to me.


    They shall remain nameless (none / 0) (#14)
    by CoralGables on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 11:55:09 AM EST
    I think most people (none / 0) (#22)
    by Anne on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 12:23:55 PM EST
    want to believe these guys, but there've been so many instances of the other shoe dropping that I think most people are at the point where they withhold committing to anything greater than, "well, we'll see."

    And speaking of "the other shoe," much of Ravens Nation is awaiting more info on the Ray Rice situation - I think he and his fiancee are due in court next week.  Listening to sports radio this week, I'm kind of amazed at how many callers seem to want to find some way to justify him hitting her/knocking her out - if, in fact, that's what happened.

    It feels a little like he might be in free fall - riding so high after the Super Bowl year, and this year having a really mediocre season. Came into camp overweight, couldn't really get his story straight on his hip injury. He's done some really terrific work in the community, most especially with the anti-bullying campaign, but being involved in any kind of domestic situation where there's physical violence isn't going to make him a great role model for it.

    Sadly, the jokes are writing themselves now: "Well, you know Ray Rice didn't hit her or she wouldn't have fallen down."


    I Wouldn't Worry About It... (none / 0) (#26)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 12:56:42 PM EST
    ...Ravens fans have a remarkable quality in turning a blind eye to the criminal activity of their players.

    But seriously, you can't be a fan of professional sports if you can't turn a blind eye to some bad deeds, there are just too many thugs and idiots that move from team to team too quickly for anyone to take any sort of moral stand without being a hypocrite.

    One day they are gods, the next day a dead guy's blood is found in their limo, then before you know it they are commenting on ESPN about the greatness of god.

    I literally could not help myself. smiley face.


    Good thing Ray Rice isn't gay n/t (none / 0) (#27)
    by jbindc on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 01:01:27 PM EST
    Oh, Scott...I'm so sorry you had to (none / 0) (#32)
    by Anne on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 02:20:49 PM EST
    go there.  

    Just for fun, and just because I wanted to see if my perception of the Ravens as being not that bad in the "thugs and idiots" department, I found a database compiled with NFL arrest records, searchable by team, player and position - disposition of the arrest is also included.

    Here's the link.

    In Baltimore, there have been 17 arrests since 2000, ranging from disorderly conduct to the Ray Lewis thing.

    What about other teams?

    Well, Jacksonville has 28.  So does Miami.  League-wide, there are 658 arrests.

    Would it surprise you that Green Bay also has 17 arrests?  That Indy has 25?  

    Anyway, have fun looking around there - I don't have time to do a ranking by team, but it did confirm for me that whatever reputation people want Baltimore to have because of Ray Lewis - who, unlike some NFL players, hasn't had a bit of trouble since Atlanta - we're really not the poster-child for thug life in the NFL.


    Sh*t Anne... (none / 0) (#34)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 02:39:11 PM EST
    getting arrested is as American as apple pie...it's practically a rite of passage, like a bar mitzvah.

    I've long said if you're an American who has never been arrested, you haven't really lived.  Or you're the luckiest son of a b&tch who ever really lived.


    That is What I Said... (none / 0) (#36)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 04:09:06 PM EST
    ...about the Beiber petition to get him deported, what is more American than acting a fool and getting in trouble with law when one is young.

    that is not totally fair (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by nyjets on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 07:58:17 PM EST
    A lot of young people are smart and avoid breaking the law and getting arrested. Getting arrested is not as American as apple pie. That is just silly

    Considering... (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Feb 24, 2014 at 09:08:36 AM EST
    ...we lock people up at greater rates than any other place on the planet, it most certainly is American.

    You might not like it, but that is more American than apple pie.

    And it has nothing to do with being smart, well not exactly true, but certainly plenty of smart people spending time in jail for being in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong cop.


    Voltaire, Cervantes (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 24, 2014 at 10:30:28 AM EST
    Benvenuto Cellini, JS Bach, Thoreau, King, Mandela, Lenny Bruce..
      All the misfortune of "running afoul of the law."

    How would you definen being at the wrong place.. (none / 0) (#61)
    by nyjets on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 07:39:58 AM EST
    I mean, running with a gang, committing acts of vandalism, acting like a fool, etc.
    The point is that if a person follows the laws, being in the wrong place at the wrong time etc will very rarely happen.

    I still don't agree with saying that jailing people is more American than apple pie. However at this time I concede I have no arguments to back up that statement.


    I Hear Ya... (none / 0) (#62)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:33:09 AM EST
    ...but take a case like Rubin "Hurricane" Carter, who's only crime was being black in similar car to the actual murderers and a cop who hated him because he was a black professional athlete.  The kid with him only crime was driving Carter home.

    Both did a couple decades in prison for a crime they didn't commit.  There is a MOVIE about his life and the hurdles it took to get him released twenty years later.

    Granted, the original post was about mayhem, not wrongly convicted murderers, but I was locked up twice for underage drinking.  Both times, pure chance in that I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, aka fights broke out at a club, and living in a tiny town.

    My point is that underage drinking is probably something every kid does at some point, and us few who grew up small town USA had a far better chance of getting in trouble with the police for it.

    My brother and his friend were riding bicycles when the cops started following them.  They took off, my brother got away, hid behind a hill, and witnessed the cops shoot his friend in the mall parking lot.  He ran out to help him, turns out his friend actuality hit a curb and flew off his bike, and bang my brother heard was the front tire popping.

    No point just funny, as was me getting the call from the cops and having the good fortune to tell them their golden child was in jail.

    But I agree, the odds of getting arrested are greatly increased if you out there hanging with trouble makers, but not always the case.


    fair point (none / 0) (#63)
    by nyjets on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 10:05:16 AM EST
    I recognize your point. I don't completely agree with it, but there is A LOT of validity to it. I never looked at it from that point of view.

    And Maybe Getting Arrested... (none / 0) (#64)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:27:20 PM EST
    ...isn't as American as apple pie, but driving reckless and just acting a fool when you are young, is.  Which was my point about the Biebs.

    And we will see if the true American trait plays into it, getting away, at time and literally, murder if you got the funds.


    actually (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by nyjets on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 01:41:42 PM EST
    Being a fool is not as American...
    Being a fool is simply a human trait.  

    OK, but Since Americans are Humans... (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 04:06:51 PM EST
    Good point.

    Sorry... (none / 0) (#35)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 03:55:46 PM EST
    ...I wasn't implying any team had dibs on thugs and idiots.  Read that again, what I mean was every fan is going to have to figure out, at some point, how to reconcile cheering for people who aren't humanities finest.  I did throw in a RL dig, but the entire comment wasn't about him, the team, or the fans.

    If you remember in GB, Mark Chmura's career was cut when it was found out that he attended his daughters after-prom party and ended up having sex with one of her highschool friends.  Then, in the same week, I believe, he was accused of assaulting his kid's babysitter.  He was acquitted of all charges, but still some real scum bag S.  And he was loved, besties with the Favre.

    My brother said some idiots gave him a local football talk show, but right before all that came out, he jacked up his back.  Never sure if he retired on purpose, if the NFL said no thanks, or the injury actually kept him out.

    Then the stuff in NY with Favre and D pics, so I have no illusions about who is on any field, including the great Lambeau.

    Not for nothing, Chmura didn't go to the White House to meet Clinton after the SB because drum roll....... he is a hardcore republican.  

    But better yet, Jimmy Mac showed up wearing his Bears Jersey.


    It all depends (none / 0) (#44)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 12:58:25 PM EST
    are we look for quality or quantity?

    And do we count just arrests? Should acquittals be netted out??

    I've always wondered just how smart people are who, when making a lot of money, won't just take a cab!


    Because booze makes people stupid? (none / 0) (#59)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 24, 2014 at 10:37:00 AM EST
    Oregon takes next step toward gay & lesbian (none / 0) (#11)
    by MyLeftMind on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 11:43:47 AM EST
    equality. Oregon is one of many states with a gay marriage ban enshrined in the state constitution. Last year, Basic Rights Oregon joined the ACLU in a lawsuit aimed at overturning Measure 36 that amended the Oregon Constitution to define marriage as a union of one man and one woman (which passed 57% to 43% in 2004). OR Attorney General Ellen Rosenblum jumped on the AG bandwagon this week announcing that Oregon's ban on marriage for same-sex couples is indefensible. (US Constitution trumps hateful discrimination in state constitutions, duh) U.S. District Judge Michael McShane will likely join other sensible federal judges in VA, OK & UT who struck down state bans against same-sex marriage. The ruling could come as early as this summer.

    Meanwhile, the Oregon United for Marriage's campaign to ask voters to strike down the ban has already gathered enough signatures to qualify for the November '14 ballot. But since Oregon is still only 55-45% in favor of gay marriage, I think it's pretty risky to put same-sex couples' rights up for a public vote again next fall.

    Oregon United for Marriage/Basic Rights Oregon will choose not to utilize the ballot box if the court case pans out for equality, in which case they'll redirect resources to fight a new anti-gay initiative that would allow religious exemptions for discrimination. (Friends of Religious Freedom, the group pursuing the initiative that would allow businesses to opt out of participating in same-sex weddings, has already complained that the State wrote an unfair ballot title for their measure: "Exempts religious opposition to same sex marriage/civil union/ domestic partnership from penalties for discrimination." Seems like a fair title to me, but if you want to write discrimination into public policy, you certainly don't want to admit that's what you're doing.)

    I say the most effective strategy would be to drop/delay the public vote on the current ban so the Rethugs can't use it to inspire their minions to vote in a non-Presidential year, and stick with the courts instead. In addition, let the new anti-gay ballot discriminatory measure pass and then strike it down in the courts afterwards. Reminiscent of bigot restaurant owners who wouldn't serve negroes, the solution is to close 'em down, hard. We need to prevent this hot-button issue from bolstering the sagging Republican party, and the best way to do that is to expose their unconstitutional agenda in the courts. Hopefully, Judge McShane won't allow any delays that would extend this issue beyond next November's vote.

    The fight goes on.

    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 281 (none / 0) (#12)
    by Dadler on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 11:45:31 AM EST
    Welcome to 21st century civil aviation. (none / 0) (#40)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 09:41:31 PM EST
    Living on an island that's part of the most geographically remote archipelago in the world as I do, I have to fly just to get to the next county.

    The round trip airfare between Honolulu and Molokai, where I work twice a month, is usually between $150 and $170. The flight is 60 miles long each way, and there's only one airline servicing the route, Island Air, although Hawaiian Airlines will be taking over that route on March 11.

    When I had to go to Rochester, MN in 2007, the R/T airfare on Northwest Airlines between Honolulu and Minneapolis / St. Paul -- a distance of 4,200 miles -- was $675.

    But the R/T airfare between MSP and Rochester, also on Northwest, was -- get this -- $480! And mind you, the distance between MSP and RST is only 89 miles. But once again, the only airline flying between the two cities was Northwest, which is now part of Delta Air Lines.

    When airlines enjoy a virtual monopoly on service between two communities or cities, they can pretty much charge what they want. Out of DEN, you're at the mercy of United and Frontier, the two dominant carriers.

    United's also the dominant carrier out of HNL, although Hawaiian is aggressively mounting a very serious challenge to that dominance on trans-Pacific routes to New York, the west coast and Japan.

    Don't be discouraged about flying, Jeralyn. Just make sure that your next plane trip is to a place which is worth the effort and one to which you'll actually enjoy going -- like, let's say, Maui.


    Part of the cost (none / 0) (#48)
    by Mikado Cat on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 10:43:20 PM EST
    is the nature of scheduled flights, empty or full the airline has to make the flight on schedule.

    I wish we had a better rail infrastructure, but it doesn't seem like its improving.


    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 282 (none / 0) (#42)
    by Dadler on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 10:18:01 AM EST
    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 283 (none / 0) (#49)
    by Dadler on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 09:42:39 AM EST