Tuesday Open Thread

It's a dentist day for me in Boulder. Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    I mentioned my 90something (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 02:50:45 PM EST
    family member yesterday.  Just got a call to come to her 98th birthday party this afternoon.

    Bless her.  May we all do as well.

    So (5.00 / 5) (#28)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 07:42:02 PM EST
    i just got back from the birthday party.  I got some very good news about my sick friend I had mentioned.
    First, not sure if I mentioned, her daughter and her step daughter are both physical therapists.  Which is I guess about as close to a silver lining as such a situation could have.  They have been working with her almost constantly.   She has gotten so she can move her extremities.  She can nod yes and no.  She can even touch her nose with the right hand.  But she still tells them what she wants by looking at something.  So the story goes, this came from her husband, she was looking at the remote so Jim says 'you want to watch tv?' She nods yes.  'Ok, he says' and he says she keeps looking me so he says 'what's wrong? You want it louder? You want a different channel?' And he says she just kept giving me "that look", all who know Casey knows exactly what he means, 'she just keeps looking at me like bird sh!t on a windshield'
    By this time one of the daughters have walked in and says 'maybe she wants you to turn it on, dad'. And they all start laughing including Casey.
    While they are all laughing the doctors walk in and decide on the spot to move her to a physical therapy facility.

    The story made my day.


    Casey (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 07:59:45 PM EST
    Great news. So happy for everyone. (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Angel on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 08:57:31 PM EST
    Torture (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 03:39:03 PM EST
    ...is at the top of the news.  It will be hard for the not-liberal RWNJ press to put a positive spin on this, but I trust they will do it.  The only remaining question is how they will spin depravity to make it look like Jesus would do it too.

    But for the FIRST TIME IN HIS LIFE John McCain is on the right side of a moral question.  Let's see if that means he's no longer welcome on Sunday morning.

    I think his "gravitas" just went pffft!

    what? (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by CST on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 03:42:15 PM EST
    John McCain has always been vehemently and vocally anti-torture.  He was one of the few people on the right who spoke up as it was going on.  I don't love the man on every issue but he's been pretty consistent on this.  Presumably he feels strongly about it given his own time in a POW camp.

    So you agree (none / 0) (#10)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 03:55:54 PM EST
    ...that this is the only moral issue McCain has ever been right about.  It's about time.  He has had the bully pulpit for years, and if he has used it to excoriate the CIA for torture, I must have missed it.

    I don't understand any confusion on your part, since you reiterated my point.


    umm (none / 0) (#12)
    by CST on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 03:59:58 PM EST
    I don't know what to say really other than you missed it?  But he did use the bully pulpit to do exactly that.  For years.  Here's a quick link from a 2 second google search about him on this issue during his presidential campaign.

    Far Be it from me to defend (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 04:06:48 PM EST
    the old coot but he did call a stupid old lady out at a town hall for saying Obama was an "Arab" While running for prez.   Something Mittens damn sure never did.

    I think he used to be saner.   But I also think he knows his audience.   So he dies what he needs to do.


    he is from Arizona (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by CST on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 04:16:15 PM EST
    I remember him being fairly reasonable for years, until he started running for president and needing the right wing more.  I think he was pissed with how the election went down, and then he got challenged by a uber-right-winger in Arizona at one point after that and he really went off the deep end.

    Don't forget (none / 0) (#18)
    by jbindc on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 04:23:01 PM EST
    How the Rovians brought up his "black child" in 2000 in South Carolina in a whisper campaign, that led to his defeat and made him much less of a "maverick".

    Or When the Right... (none / 0) (#34)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 08:52:53 AM EST
    ...went after McCain for torture claiming that his own torture clouded his views on the subject.

    Not exactly (none / 0) (#53)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 05:26:20 PM EST
    He voted against a bill to rein in the CIA interrogation techniques in 2008.  He hasn't exactly been anti-torture, a little torture might be okay.

    The spin from the RW press (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by christinep on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 04:32:06 PM EST
    Will be to attempt to consign the report & its fallout to the category of a political dispute.  For confirmation, check the Fox coverage at their website. (Note: Although my curiosity caused me to check their coverage, I can't bring myself to type more about them other than to say that the heading was something like "Double Trouble" Dems release report & Repubs counter, blah, blah, blah.) They will attempt to play tit-for-tat, and bring in ret'd generals and retired NSA types to say how "irresponsible" or some such the release is.

    A quick check of the headlines and ledes in the mainstream today shows sane, heavy, appropriate coverage.  The NYT refers to "depravity" of the systematic torture and the WashPo refers to it's "brutality."  Granted, I have not peeked at Drudge ... but, I'd need a hefty drink for that.


    Oh (none / 0) (#26)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 06:26:17 PM EST
    I doubt they're going to spin out. They're going to embrace it and say it was what was needed to be done. Even when there was a hint of torture the right was embracing it.

    Shielding the guilty. (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by lentinel on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 07:24:34 PM EST
    From the NYTimes Editorial...

    The litany of brutality, lawlessness and lack of accountability serves as a reminder of what a horrible decision President Obama made at the outset of his administration to close the books on this chapter in our history, even as he repudiated the use of torture. The C.I.A. officials who destroyed videotapes of waterboarding were left unpunished, and all attempts at bringing these acts into a courtroom were blocked by claims of national secrets.

    That's why this still haunts us.

    Got my ass kicked creatively yesterday (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Dadler on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 11:01:08 AM EST
    For anyone who wants to know what it's like to have a novelist/literary editor rip you a new one, much less a novelist/literary editor you have been friends with for a quarter-century, here's a sample directly from his "critique" of my shit yesterday:

    "We deal almost exclusively in weird shit (my shit is hardly weird enough, but they have to publish it because I work there), and though your collection has its weird moments, it wouldn't be dadlerworld if it didn't, it's shot through with a large portion of the sweetly sappy (BeFree-tale, Mommies & Daddies, & the final story, frinstance), sappy with poignancies to be sure, but not quite Dr. Cicero's [the publishing house's] evil style.

    "...IF I MAKE IT TO ELEVEN you might claim as evil, but's it's not, it's painful sappy, an utterly respectable genre. [The other stories, except for one], I gotta say, they're fun and all, but fially more charming than crazy, to tell da troot."

    He includes my "suicide story" in the sweetly sappy. And by suicide story I mean, you know, every writer has to have one tale where the protagonist jumps off the bridge at the end. He's the only cat who hasn't said it was the darkest, most psycho-sexually brooding thing they'd ever read. To him, the dude who could get it published for me...it was goddamn sappy.  (Insert primal scream here.) I am officially done for the day. Gonna have a big bloody mary, maybe one of the two hash pills I kept from my sis-in-law's care package, and punch the padded walls or something. So it goes in failed former writerland. Could be worse, I could be without the love of a brilliant woman and equally brilliant child.

    Phuck it.

    Peace out, y'all.

    Oh man (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 12:09:13 PM EST
    dont let it get you down.

    Eff it (none / 0) (#42)
    by Dadler on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 12:43:35 PM EST
    I'm good after a day or two. Sappy is just not the word I ever expected to hear. Whatever. Par for the curse, as they say. Cheers again!!

    Do you think your oh-so-severe (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 12:32:06 PM EST
    critic phrases such as "to tell da troot" to ease your pain at reading his rejection letter?  

    Does Comic-Con publish short story collections?  San Diego Reader serially?


    I've known the guy since '87 (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Dadler on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 12:56:14 PM EST
    Always been like that, especially since he was writer-block'd on a big TV series assignment once and, this is 20+ years ago already, I gave him the episode idea he needed, soup to nuts practically, which he got paid for. So he's always treated me as an equal creatively, never pulls literary punches with me, which I respect and need. Except, you know, when I disagree with the angle of the punch and whether it even connected or not. ;-)

    I've heard much worse. The very worst came from a two-bit producer on my first paid screenwriting gig, commenting on the state of our current draft. (a quote I think I've dropped here before): "There's a lot happening here . And it's not bad that a lot's happening. I want a lot to happen. I just don't want so much going on!"

    I must have looked like a dear in floodlights.




    If a literary editor (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by CoralGables on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 01:00:10 PM EST
    wrote "to tell da troot", I'm not sure I'd pay any attention to anything they ever said.

    Well I Find the Stories.... (5.00 / 5) (#45)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 01:00:51 PM EST
    ...you have linked to anything but sappy, they are gut wrenching, yet insightful as what abuse does to someone too young to fully comprehend it.

    For someone who grew up in the normalest of normal homes who still struggled, I always wonder where I would be if I had grown up in a toxic and abusive environment.

    I can say, with fair certainty, I would not be half the man you are.  Obviously I have no idea who you really are, but anyone who writes with such compassion and conviction is a damn decent human being in my book.

    What I like, and what I really respect, is way you take down abusers, no filters and no mercy, and it wouldn't be nearly as effective without the insights of your stories.


    Thank you, Scott (none / 0) (#48)
    by Dadler on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 03:09:37 PM EST
    I really appreciate the props.


    Peace out, my good man.


    What a bummer (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by MO Blue on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 04:00:17 PM EST
    Creative rejection is a hard thing but basically just someone's opinion after all.

    I should've added... (none / 0) (#46)
    by Dadler on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 01:23:28 PM EST
    ...I genuinely love this guy, he's always been a solid critic and mentor and generous soul. I had a hunch he wouldn't cotton to all of them as they are, but the overall review...yeesh, I like to think of myself as not clueless, but here I was very clueless.

    But it wouldn't be life any other way.

    And to pump another dear friend of mine, who just published a great pro football satire (almost like a Marx Brothers version of NETWORK meets the NFL) called CIRCUS CATCH. Here's a link to him being interviewed on Dennis Miller's radio show -- good Dennis Miller, sports fan SNL Dennis Miller, not I've become a Fox News Moron Dennis Miller.

    Amazon link to book. Buy it, it's witty as sh*t. A really great read.


    Cheers again!!! (none / 0) (#47)
    by Dadler on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 01:23:47 PM EST

    To use one of my favorite movie quotes (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 12:08:28 PM EST
    Reference (none / 0) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 07:44:20 PM EST
    UVA (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Slado on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 07:30:24 PM EST
    What are we to make if this scandal?

    It's been very depressing to read how bad a job of journalism one of my favorite magazines did.   An entire University and a group of men were run through the muck based on what everyday seems like more of a lie then truth.

    Rape is a serious issue and to me on campuses comes from an inappropriate and risky world of casual sex and alchohal/drug use backed up by a host of social issues floating in the background that enable or persuade young men to see women as sexual objects rather then people.  

    It'd be great to have that discussion as even I can think back 20 years to an attitude I had as young man that was a little to cavalear about what being in college meant and what I should expect in terms of "hooking up".   There is definitely a culture change and new expectations for young people that is kindly called "freedom" but can end with sexual misconduct and even rape when taken too far and it is not just at the individual level.  

     I would never blame a victim and ultimately men have much more responsibility in these situations but I think we kid ourselves if we don't acknowledge the reality that the party culture that exists on many campuses and has for decades has a dark side that often ends with two people put in a situation that makes for horrible decisions and often tragic outcomes.

    That is what we should be talking about.   How to avoid these situations and teaching young men that the goal is to meet a girl at college, not make notches on your belt..  

    We do not know what happened (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by caseyOR on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 10:16:50 AM EST
    to "Jackie". And I find Rolling Stone's behavior here quite weaselly.

    I am less concerned about inaccuracies like a particular date because the trauma of sexual assault, like all trauma, can muddle the memory of details that are smaller in the context of the assault.

    Now, I know the fraternity has claimed it had no social activities on its calendar for the date in question. Okay, no official parties. Unofficial parties, however, are part and parcel for frats. It is entirely possible that just such a party did occur on that date, but was not on the official calendar.

    As to the party culture on campus, well, no one benefits from binge drinking. I agree it is an out of control problem. Where we part ways is at the idea that drinking can somehow be blamed for sexual assaults. This line of thinking makes possible the execrable idea that the victim shares at least part, if not all, of the blame.

    I can think of no other crime where people work so hard to hold the victim accountable for the crime. If a drunken frat boy holds you up at gunpoint in a bar where you have also been drinking no one blames you one whit for the crime. If a drunken group of frat boys attacks a sober, or drunk, man no one says he was asking for it or wanted to be beaten. If a frat boy breaks into your home and steals your big screen TV you shoulder none of the blame, even if you are passed out drunk on the sofa.

    We, as a culture and a society, must start teaching boys and men that there is never a good or permissible reason to force another person into sex. We need to be clear that sex without the informed consent of all parties involved is not just wrong, but is a serious crime for which they will do serious time. And anyone who is drunk or passed out cannot give consent.


    7 college students committing an orchestrated and violent beating and gang-rape of a coed is a level of craven depravity that should not be simply accepted at face value.

    I Agree, But in This Case... (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 03:57:10 PM EST
    ...on the news they went through the issues, first, there is no record of the boy that took here to the party.  The name she gave does not exist, but she states he had a class with him.

    The pics she texted friends of her date were actually of a friend who attended another college, he confirmed.

    Read THIS.  There are so many inconsistencies, it's hard to imagine Rolling Stone did any investigation.

    To me this is not a case of going after the victim, no one is saying she was too drunk, dressed inappropriately, or any of the other victim blaming non-sense.  They are trying to establish if a crime occurred.

    I understand that there are reasons accounts would vary, and even though her friends are saying what she told them wasn't what they read in Rolling Stone, but also stated it was clear that she had been traumatized that night.


    Drinking impairs judgement (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Slado on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 04:38:23 PM EST
    And when young adults participate in reckless behavior as a group that leads to boys and girls being together at levels of intoxication that would not allow them to drive it seems to me that they might also make decisions about sex that they would never make if not for alcohol.

    Getting Drunk increases odds of sexual assault

    I've done it and I have female friends who have done it.   After a long night of drinking you simply don't make the same judgements about sex at 1am you would dead sober at 1 pm.    They don't call it the Walk of Shame for nothing.

    That said it is not an excuse because no is the stopping point no matter how drunk anyone is but it is simply a reality to me that a hook-up culture mixed with a culture of binge drinking leads to young people being put in terrible situations of judgement and at the least gives true predators more then a few targets.  

    I think the difference between the what we remember from our younger years and and now is the loss of personal relationships and communication skills between young people.   Texting, Twitter, hook up sites make this middle age man long for the days when you had to walk up to a girl and actually talk to her for 30 minutes to get her to go on a date rather then a quick text message or even worse a nameless sexual encounter born of the Internet.


    It's sad on many levels (none / 0) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 08:34:41 PM EST
    its done unknowable damage to the cause that, I assume, it was intended to promote

    As if these types of charges were not subjected to enough skepticism.

    It sad to see what I always considered a great journalistic institution fall so low.

    It's sad to see people smeared wrongly.

    It's just sad.


    Back in the early 1960s (none / 0) (#70)
    by ragebot on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 10:21:41 PM EST
    I was in high school and then a university student during the sexual revolution.  One thing I have noted is for at least the last ten of fifteen years, probably longer new issues are popping up that seem to limit sex.

    After it became clear AIDS was not just a gay disease and drug resistant social diseases became much more wide spread it seemed like there was a much greater reluctance to hook up.

    Maybe just my personal experience but it seems like there is less sex today than in the 1960-70s.


    It's not just you personal experience (none / 0) (#71)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 10:28:07 PM EST
    those of us lucky enough to have come of age when the worst thing you could get could be cured with a shot remember well a different and lost forever time.

    Can't speak to the 60's-70's... (none / 0) (#91)
    by kdog on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 01:29:45 PM EST
    I can only dream;)...but I think sex and promiscuity is on the rise again after my era, the 90's, when HIV awareness and education was at it's height and we were all f*ckin' scared out of our libidos.

    Hook up culture and promiscuity is back in a big way...it ebbs and flows, imo.  We might be on the cusp to swinging back to less sex, with the raised awareness of the sexual assault and rape problem on college campuses, and the "yes means yes" law outta Cali.

    Back to the topic of the Rolling Stone piece, we don't know, and probably never will, what (if anything) happened to that woman.  But Rolling Stone definitely failed in their journalistic due diligence, and that upsets me as a subscriber and huge fan of their publication.  

    Perhaps saddest of all, I read the piece and didn't doubt it for a second...it's still a problem regardless of the accuracy of this particular allegation, we should keep that in mind.  


    Nirvana (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 07:34:57 PM EST
    a state of perfect happiness; an ideal or idyllic place.
    plural noun: nirvanas

    With apologies to those who cringe at recipe comments-

    I have been selflessly striving to attain the ultimate oatmeal cookie.  I have spared no time or expense in this holy quest.  I believe I am closing in.

    2 cups oatmeal (more can be added to achieve ideal consistency but that's going to be close)
    2 cups flour
    5-6 oz slivered almonds
    5-6 oz dried cranberries (raisins work but...)
    1 Tbsp cinnamon  
    1/2 Tspn nutmeg
    1 Tbsp baking soda
    1 cup sugar
    2oz poppyseeds (that's 2 of the little containers)

    Small Chocolate or butterscotch chips can be added but feedback tells me simpler is better

    Mix that all together

    In another bowl combine

    3 eggs
    1Tbsp vanilla
    1/2 stick of softened butter
    3 4oz containers of applesauce (they are sold in pacs of 4 or 6) if you can find it use Strawberry Appelsauce-that's just applesauce with strawberries added
    1 cup brown sugar

    Use a mixer to whip that up good

    Combine the two

    Plop it on sprayed cookie sheets and bake at 350


    ovens vary but it's very important that you bake them just short of too long.   To the point caramelization starts to happen on the bottom. ABOUT 15 mins maybe a little less

    I call them



    I have picked this (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 07:50:06 PM EST
    as my neighborhood Christmas gift.

    I am an oatmeal cookie afficionado. (none / 0) (#108)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 06:38:42 PM EST
    "just short of too long" does that mean the cookies are slightly soft and doughy?

    I usually prefer a slightly crispy texture.


    B (none / 0) (#110)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 07:40:53 PM EST
    they should be slightly crispy.  Early efforts I followed the time on the recipes and discovered the secret by accident by not paying enough attention.

    The recipe is on our holiday list. (none / 0) (#111)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 10:19:46 PM EST
    Let me know what you think (none / 0) (#116)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 09:27:58 AM EST
    White Coats for Black Lives (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 09:04:03 PM EST
    not going away-

    Medical students to hold nationwide `die-ins' and protests Wednesday because #BlackLivesMatter

    Students at more than 70 medical schools - in New York, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Boston, Cleveland, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Washington, D.C., and elsewhere - will protest lack of indictments for police killings in Ferguson, Mo., and New York, and to spotlight racial bias as a public health issue

    Drug War... (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by kdog on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 02:03:28 PM EST
    claims another casualty...this poor slob might have been executed at worst, or killed for simply daring to attempt to defend his home and wife from armed home invaders at best.

    Predictably, no drugs were found, not that the possession/sale of drugs makes these stormtrooper raids ok...they gotta stop and yesterday.  How many innocent people, and pets, must die before we wake up?  Much better for drugs to be flushed down the toilet than for people to die from no-knocks and home invasions.

    The Sony hack (5.00 / 3) (#94)
    by Dadler on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 02:25:38 PM EST
    Love that the bigwigs, Pascal, producer Rudin, are now putting tails between legs and apologizing for revealing what cretins they really are. (link) I have a great Rudin story from the turn of the century (I love saying that now), when for a few months I was a hot -- albeit, and unbeknownst to all involved but me, an utterly phucked up and clueless -- commodity as a screenwriter, based on a thriller script that, had the list existed then, easily would'be been on The Black List.

    Anyway, Rudin had read my thriller, loved it, wanted to buy it. But, as I found out when I had a meeting with his LA exec in on the Paramount there on Melrose, his hands were tied. This was my first experience with Hollywood execs on this level, and of those same execs having remote controlled office doors. When Heather (Rudin's exec in LA) seemed to magically make her office door close behind me as she sat at her desk, I was like some dipsht*t greenhorn blown away at the sight of a sno-cone machine.

    Anyway, I was told that even though Rudin wanted my script, Paramount wouldn't buy it for him, thought it too dark, the lead character not heroic enough (he was a sex addict being blackmailed by the ex hubby of a long forgotten woman he'd phucked). But, it turned out, Rudin wanted me to rewrite a script he had already bought, but which I was told needed a serious rewrite. CROSSING BELMONT it was called, I could never forget that title, phuck the author if he sees this -- you got paid big, you hack, get over it.

    So after my agents told me the story with Rudin, and how he wanted me for this rewrite assignment, they sent me the script. When it came in the mail, I couldn't open the manila envelope for days (this was just prior to email files becoming the norm). I kid you not, it took me a week to open that envelope and read the script. I was so convinced that I was way out of my league at that point, I'd gotten myself in too deep and would be revealed as a one-hit non-wonder. After all, I had it on good info from my lawyer Rudin paid mid-six figures for the screenplay. How could I, a guy whose script couldn't get sold no matter how many people thought it was brilliant, how was I supposed to make this big spec-sale script better? Day after day I stared at the envelope on my desk, afraid to open it. My agent called to ask what I thought of it. I told him I needed to read it again. Ha. I needed to read it, period. Finally, after a week, I had a few drinks and cracked the bastard.

    And oh how my eyes were opened.

    Tt was like reading something written by a below average, upper middle class, white high school creative writing student. I do not exaggerate when I say there was not a salvageable line of dialogue or description in the piece of sh*t. Not one.

    Unfortunately, I was still in my 20s, my head was spinning, and I secretly despised everyone in Hollywood involved in my career. Today, knowing what I know, phuck it, I'd bullsh*t my way right into that rewrite job. For heaven's sake, even back then it woulda paid six figures for half a year's work probably. But, young clueless bink that I was, I froze like a deer in headlights and did the WORST thing I could've possibly done, did the best sabotage job on my career I could've pulled off.

    I told the truth.

    I told them they'd wasted that quater million dollars, or however much they had put down the sh*tter, that the script was a lost cause (which it was, but still, come on kid, make your bones while you can...), and I explained exactly why it was a joke and could've be raised from the storytelling dead.

    I dug my own grave. Effing moron.

    You want to talk Freudian self-hatred in motion, there it was.

    After this ridiculous meeting, when I'd essentially yapped my way out of a big payday, I proceeded to drive off the Paramount lot in my sh*tty Nissan Sentra and, SLAM!, got sideswiped by a rented U-Haul. My car was so small and wispy, the truck's occupants had no idea they'd even hit me, much less caved in the entire passenger side of the tin-can car. I can remember watching the U-Haul just vanishing west down Melrose as the sun was beginning to set. I hated late afternoon meetings. The traffic was miserable afterwards.

    Good times, good times.

    But if you're ever on Melrose there at Paramount, heading west, and you want a good burger, hit AstroBurger at Melrose and Gower. Been there as long as I can remember, I was maybe 7 or 8 first time I went there with my dad.

    End soggy nostalgia.

    for a rewrite. I think they get a bunch of them done on a script and pick and choose what they like from the bunch.

    And, once you get on a studio's "list" of rewrite guys, you get rewrite gigs pretty regularly. Until the next flave of the month comes along.

    Ah well, what's youth for, if not for learning everything the hard way?


    I woulda made more than that since... (none / 0) (#119)
    by Dadler on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 10:28:03 AM EST
    ...it woulda been a couple rewrites plush polish deal. Rudin really thought I was the sh*t, at the time. I must really have not wanted to work for him. ;-)

    As it was, I made good money on my unproduced script. Way more than many people ever make writing something.


    And believe me, I had plenty of friends... (none / 0) (#120)
    by Dadler on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 10:33:10 AM EST
    ...who got plenty of rewrite work. I was ultimately screwed by the fact that every single producer attached to my script at the time, the director included...was wrong about it. I kept telling them, all the changes are fine, but you will lose everything that made you like it in the first place. But paradigm addiction is Hollywood's biggest problem next to Mercedes addiction, and they stayed wrong, and a great story, as so many do in that town...when pfft...

    But again, I got paid pretty well.



    I did fine on that script (none / 0) (#129)
    by Dadler on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 01:04:10 PM EST
    All the others that came after it, forget it. One near miss after another.

    Boo hoo.



    Dadler, I'm sorry to hear it worked (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by fishcamp on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 04:12:44 PM EST
    out this way, but you did gain respect, and a degree of happiness from your valiant attempt.  You deserve more than what you got, since I think you are one hell of a great writer.  Just remember Hollywood is where yes means no.  Keep on writing my friend and don't get down on yourself.

    I'm trying to stay away (none / 0) (#97)
    by CST on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 03:43:40 PM EST
    from reading the Sony leaks, because of invasion of privacy, etc... That being said, everything that I have stumbled upon is pure gold.

    There are some pretty amazing (none / 0) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 04:06:15 PM EST
    nuggets.  No one like the posting of things like SS numbers and medical information but the stuff about the pay differences for men and women and between the uppers and the lowers and that of the 19 million plus salaries 17 are men and 15 are white is pretty astonishing.

    Yea, that's the legit stuff (none / 0) (#101)
    by CST on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 04:19:23 PM EST
    I mean the silly stuff like the fact that the hijackers are threatening to release more info unless Sony agrees not to release "The Interview".


    Also where they talk $hit about celebs, the president, etc...

    But yea, the pay stuff isn't pretty.  1 woman in the million plus club, out of 17.


    I don't think there is any possible way (none / 0) (#104)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 04:39:37 PM EST
    they don't release the movie.  Everyone in the world will want to see it now.   They aren't going to make back what this is going to cost them but will certainly be some consolation.

    I expect it gets released.  I saw Seth Rogan on Maher talking about the death threats.  He said he just hope ps they kill Franco and not him.


    Kim just gave the movie (none / 0) (#105)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 04:41:24 PM EST
    the equivalent of a PR mans wet dream.

    I guess I shouldn't be that surprised (none / 0) (#106)
    by CST on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 04:44:53 PM EST
    about North Korea, but I couldn't imagine anyone taking that seriously.

    I guess like W (none / 0) (#107)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 04:50:38 PM EST
    he decided to not make his fathers mistakes and ended up just phuckng everything up.

    They premiered the movie last night (none / 0) (#128)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 12:56:06 PM EST
    with no press no fanfare and no red carpet

    They understand they are under assault but they are not cowed.

    Good for them


    I suppose (none / 0) (#130)
    by Dadler on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 01:45:40 PM EST
    But when I don't even crack a slight laugh at any of the trailer/teasers I've seen, I have a feeling it's sound and fury signifying nothing. Which makes NK's bluster even more ironic obviously. Skeptic that I am, my first thought when I saw the trailer was, oh, they saw Lizzy Caplan naked and effing for a few seasons on MASTERS OF SEX and they thought, let's work with her every day, wink wink.

    I'll see it though. Fer sher.


    Totally (none / 0) (#134)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 04:17:44 PM EST
    without Kims billon dollar PR campaign it would have been on FX in a month.

    Pirate bay down (none / 0) (#1)
    by ragebot on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 01:23:47 PM EST
    here is link

    Good luck with the dentist, I am waiting for a call from the prosthodontist.

    What kind of a site was it? (none / 0) (#2)
    by fishcamp on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 01:27:44 PM EST
    Pirate Bay (none / 0) (#21)
    by ragebot on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 05:19:18 PM EST
    is a torrent site.  I thought my post would be of interest since it has been compared to the US/Hollywood extending its long arm out side national borders kinda like it did with kimdotcom.

    They are About 3 Years Too Late (none / 0) (#3)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 01:58:48 PM EST
    TPB is about as relevant as Napster or Myspace.

    It's a hub for P2P file sharing, aka torrents, where people can share files that are located on their computers, not at the hub.


    Thanks , Scott, (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by fishcamp on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 02:46:16 PM EST
    that's not for me.  I'm just glad coral gables got his baby Jesus back, and we settled the entire Cuban mess.  We did, didn't we?  I'v never typed that much, so I'm off for a grouper sandwich and a Cuba Libre.

    Speaking of Cuba Libres (none / 0) (#15)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 04:12:06 PM EST
    Back in the day, just outside the gate in GITMO you had to tip the bartender to get a bit of coke in your drink... Coke cost more than rum....

    Upper-class Mexicans only drink Coke (none / 0) (#17)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 04:19:38 PM EST
    When they mix it with Jimmy Walker Red.  

    "Jimmy Walker Red"? (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 04:39:40 PM EST



    I meant Johnnie Walker (none / 0) (#23)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 06:08:56 PM EST
    I'm more of a Bushmills' Irish myself, having been introduced to it by a lady from Long Island named Irene McLaughlin. Her mother had a Lawn Guyland accent that you could cut with a know.

    Napster as a going concern was subsumed (none / 0) (#14)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 04:12:05 PM EST
    Into Rhapsody a few years ago, and of course there was Aimster, LiveWire and a few things that could slow your computer down or goof it up, if you weren't careful.

    Your computer will be fine (none / 0) (#22)
    by ragebot on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 05:21:38 PM EST
    if you USB boot something like Damn Small Linux

    I was talking in the past tense (none / 0) (#24)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 06:11:26 PM EST
    and I do use Real Player to record streaming content, it hasn't messed my laptop yet, so it's good.

    Thank Grimm it's ... (none / 0) (#6)
    by sj on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 03:29:40 PM EST
    ... Wednesday? At least that's what the local TNT commercials are saying.

    So, Howdy, beginning early next year (whatever that means) TNT will be airing reruns of "Grimm". So you should be able to start from the beginning. Which also means you can begin to appreciate  the treasure that is  Sergeant Wu.

    You picked the one day of the (none / 0) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 03:57:50 PM EST
    month I know better.  I get paid the second wed of the month and it did not happen today.   But I might know anyway because wed is American Horror Story day.

    About Grimm.  I dunno.  I tried.  Cheesy effects really bug me. And honestly in this case the story was not interesting enough to get me past it.

    But we will see.  Maybe I will try from the beginning.  But I don't think that's going to help the cheesy effects.


    The sky drank too much (none / 0) (#7)
    by CST on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 03:29:53 PM EST
    And is now emptying itself over Boston/the northeast.  Holy lord is it coming down.  All freaking day with no sign of letting up.  I walked one block to get a sandwich for lunch and my pants were soaked through.

    I live a mile from the Train...

    I guess it must have moved (none / 0) (#25)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 06:23:14 PM EST
    north because that was our past weekend in GA.

    Almost totally missed us, somehow, (none / 0) (#29)
    by Peter G on Tue Dec 09, 2014 at 07:48:16 PM EST
    here in Philadelphia.

    Appropriate (none / 0) (#51)
    by MO Blue on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 03:57:51 PM EST
    Congressional spending deal (none / 0) (#32)
    by jbindc on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 07:26:44 AM EST
    blocks pot legalization in D.C.

    The District will be prohibited from legalizing marijuana for the much of the coming year under a spending deal reached Tuesday between top Senate Democrats and House Republicans to fund the federal government through next September.

    The development -- upending voter-approved Initiative 71 -- shocked elected D.C. leaders, advocates for marijuana legalization and civil liberties groups who earlier in the day had grown confident that the measure would be at least partially protected while Democrats still controlled the Senate.

    However, with Republicans set to take control of the chamber in January, the defeat suggested that the will of D.C. voters -- who approved marijuana legalization last month by a margin of more than 2 to 1 -- may be suspended indefinitely.

    It also (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 07:56:14 AM EST
    guts the EPA and Dodd Frank.

    Welcome to the new order.


    Neworder & Newjustice in a Newamerica (none / 0) (#49)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 03:21:19 PM EST
    With Ralph Steadman-esque illustrations and a Pink Floyd soundtrack:

    Another Brick in the Wall


    (Sigh!) So much for home rule. (none / 0) (#56)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 05:55:00 PM EST
    This is yet another reason why I believe that the District of Columbia should be abolished, and district's lands -- including the city of Washington -- ceded by the federal government back to the State of Maryland.

    It's not entirely clear (none / 0) (#67)
    by Zorba on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 08:30:52 PM EST
    that Maryland would agree to this.  Last time it was discussed here, opinions were all over the place.
    It's also not entirely clear that retroceding the District to Maryland would be Constitutional without Maryland's consent.

    No raise for Biden (none / 0) (#74)
    by ragebot on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 07:52:43 AM EST
    The new spending bill also contains a provision that stops the raise Biden was expecting.



    Got a link... (none / 0) (#132)
    by unitron on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 03:19:40 PM EST
    ...to Biden actually saying he was expecting it?

    Another big win for corporations (none / 0) (#35)
    by jbindc on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 08:54:22 AM EST

    On Tuesday, the Supreme Court handed a big win to Amazon and companies like it. In a unanimous decision, the court ruled that businesses should not be required to pay workers at warehouses for the time they wait to go through mandatory security screenings at the end of the day. Workers might wait in line for five minutes to go through a routine anti-theft screening or they might wait 25 minutes; regardless, the employer does not need to compensate them for that time.

    The ruling hinged on the justices' interpretation of the Portal-to-Portal Act, a 1947 law that says companies do not need to compensate workers for "preliminary" or "postliminary" activities. A main goal of the Portal-to-Portal Act was to exclude workers' commutes from the time companies were required to compensate, as well as other activities that were not related to the "principal" job. In the case decided Tuesday, which involved a temp agency that has contracted workers to Amazon's warehouses, the court said security screenings were not "integral and indispensable" to the workers' jobs, and therefore not required to get extra pay.

    More here.

    Not "integral and indispensable" ... (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by unitron on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 11:26:22 AM EST
    ...to the job, just to keeping it.

    Amb Marc Ginsberg just walked it out (none / 0) (#36)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 09:00:26 AM EST
    The new concept, enough like the old concept maybe you won't notice, is semi-boots on the ground.  It's not boots on the ground.  It's a toe on the ground?  Our Dr Scholl's insert fell out and is laying on the ground :)?

    We don't do empire stuff well. (none / 0) (#57)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 05:55:53 PM EST
    Bernie Madoff's secretary, (none / 0) (#50)
    by KeysDan on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 03:41:35 PM EST
    Annette Bongiorno, was sentenced by a federal judge to six years in prison (less than the prosecution's recommendation of 20 years and less than the defense's own proposal) for securities fraud, conspiracy and other charges in the $17 billion Madoff fraud.

    While Ms. Bongiorno apologized but claimed she did not know what was going on, the judge said that she should have known and was breaking the law when she fabricated and backdated fictitious trades on her bosses order.  The judge recognized that she did not mastermind the Ponzi scheme, but she followed instructions, "willfully blinding herself.  She relied on Madoff's good blessing, rather than apply her own good sense and moral compass."

    The reading of this news story (NYT, Dec 10) generated parallels to the Senate Report on Torture.  While it is wrong if only those just "carrying out orders" are held accountable,  it is not wrong if those just "carrying out orders" are held accountable.

    McDonald's fires the clown, vows to go vegan. (none / 0) (#54)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 05:44:56 PM EST
    Well, okay, not really. But there are definitely some internal discussions taking place regarding the fast-food chain's ability to keep pace with customers' changing tastes and eating habits.

    Yeah... (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 06:56:30 PM EST
    ...step one, stop running ads with questions that imply your product may not be fit for human consumption.

    This is political hackery 101, ask question that contains a lie with the hope that lie sticks.

    You don't do it to your GD products in a commercial trying to direct people to a website containing the truth about your products.  

    • Does McDonald's even sell real food?
    • What part of the chicken is in chicken nuggets?
    • What is really in your beef?
    • What's in your hamburger?
    • Pink slime, what is that ?
    And my personal favorite, not even a question, just a statement.
    I've read that there is horse meat in your food.

    For the 99.9999% of people who didn't go to the website, they are only left with the idea that you might not be serving actual food products.  And the horse meat kicker ensures they were paying attention and probably won't forget.

    This is a genius strategy if you are in shorting McDonald's stock.


    Darlin'! You missed another great one . . . (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by nycstray on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 10:34:44 PM EST
    If it does it is something new (none / 0) (#73)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 10:47:23 PM EST
    when i worked on the dinosaur movie which lasted 6 years one of my friends had a cheese burger and fries in his cube for five of those years.  I have pictures someplace.

    If You Sell Food... (none / 0) (#89)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 12:07:47 PM EST
    ...and your marketing strategy involves proving your product is actually fit for human consumption, you are in trouble.

    What's next, 'Our special sauce doesn't contain bull semen."


    A week or so ago, I saw a photo of a Oahu (none / 0) (#55)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 05:54:37 PM EST
    McDonald's taro pie pocket, similar in form to the apple pies McDonald's serves mainlanders.  The interior was a bright, almost flourescent purple.  Is that real or a lighting or post process trick?

    It looked so cool.  I love tropical fruits.


    When taro is prepared, ... (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 07:02:51 PM EST
    ... the part of the plant used to make poi, taro chips (like potato chips, only much tastier) and taro pies is the root, the interior of which has a distinct purplish complexion. This accounts for the color you see in taro pies and chips. Once harvested, no part of the plant is wasted; the stalks and leaves are also edible, and are also used for other purposes.

    And taro isn't a fruit. Rather, it's a form of starch vegetable, roughly the Polynesian equivalent of the potato, only in my opinion it's much tastier and likely more nutritious. While taro can also be grown on dry land, more often than not the preferred method is wetlands farming, because the wetlands variety can yield up to fifteen times the amount of taro of its dryland counterpart. A taro wetlands patch is called "lo'i," which is pronouced "Low-Ee."

    Lo'i-grown taro needs a steady flow of water in order to thrive, and to access that supply, the ideal lo'i is usually positioned in island valleys in close proximity to a running stream or river, between mauka (which means "toward the mountains") and makai ("toward the sea"). Once planted, a taro plant takes seven months to mature before it can be harvested.

    If you enjoy rooting around in the mud and tapping your inner child, you'll probably love taro farming. It's such a visceral experience that many local people will tell you that they find it therapeutic.

    And if McDonald's really wants to score points out here, it would use the native Hawaiian word for the plant, "kalo," rather than its Tahitian equivalent. The Tahitian and Hawaiian languages are actually quite similar, only Tahitian uses a "t" rather than a "k," and an "r" rather than an "l."

    Thus Ke'ala'aikahiki Point on the east end of the island of Kaho'olawe becomes "Te Ala Ai Tahiti," which in English means "The Way to Tahiti." Polynesian voyagers who ventured south to the Tuamotu and Marquesas islands would first use that land point to reference the stars and star clusters necessary to navigate them to Tahiti, which is 2,500 miles away.

    This concludes your Polynesian cultural lesson for today.


    Self interest (none / 0) (#59)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 06:02:36 PM EST
    White God (none / 0) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 05:58:48 PM EST
    this appears to be the ultimate dog lovers movie

    Winner of the Prize Un Certain Regard Award at this year's Cannes Festival, Kornel Mundruczo's newest film is a story of the indignities visited upon animals by their supposed "human superiors," but it's also an brutal, beautiful metaphor for the political and cultural tensions sweeping contemporary Europe. When young Lili is forced to give up her beloved dog Hagen, because it's mixed-breed heritage is deemed 'unfit' by The State, she and the dog begin a dangerous journey back towards each other. At the same time, all the unwanted, unloved and so-called 'unfit' dogs rise up under a new leader, Hagen, the one-time housepet who has learned all too well from his 'Masters' in his journey through the streets and animal control centers how to bite the hands that beats him ...

    Interesting reviews: (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Dec 10, 2014 at 06:09:35 PM EST
    one: At its heart, the film plays as if Samuel Peckinpaw [sic] directed The Incredible Journey

    Chuck Terd (none / 0) (#75)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 08:09:26 AM EST
    does not disappoint.

    Crazy Dick Cheney will be the featured guest on Beat the Press

    Or, as I like to think of this and the rest (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Anne on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 08:57:01 AM EST
    of the Sunday shows: Circle the Jerks.

    It's why I can't and don't watch any more - these people just don't have a clue.  It's just a parade of insiders yammering dishonestly and disingenuously, and going unchallenged by a host who mainly seems more worried about not having his name taken off the "A" list.

    And, Jesus...Dick Cheney.  What's he going to say but..."torture, goooood."

    Ugh.  My skin is crawling.


    Anne, my favorite part is where (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by fishcamp on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 09:24:53 AM EST
    they all talk at once.  Could this be a form of torture?

    Anybody planning to see (none / 0) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 08:32:33 AM EST
    Gods and Kings this weekend?
    Reviews are mixed but I think I have to see it.  I admit I find the hand wringing about factual inaccuracies amusing.

    Scott has a typically matter of fact response to charges of racism.-

    Ridley Scott has attributed the casting of his film to pure marketing concerns: "I can't mount a film of this budget, where I have to rely on tax rebates in Spain, and say that my lead actor is Mohammad so-and-so from such-and-such. I'm just not going to get it financed. So the question doesn't even come up."

    Interestingly (none / 0) (#77)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 08:41:52 AM EST
    the ad I got when clicking that YouTube link was for the remake of Mad Max which seems equally as pointless as a remake of the 10 Commandments.  I will probably see it to.

    I eagerly await the debate on the factual inaccuracies.


    My Scottish friend is here visiting (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by fishcamp on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 09:40:05 AM EST
    so, I will try to refrain from my Gaelic lingo, ye ken.  He's a wee bit difficult to understand.  He reports the younger Scottish folks will demand another vote for separating from the English, in three to five years.  I'll be an ancient by then.

    In response (none / 0) (#81)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 10:16:47 AM EST
    to MT re: Jebbie in the other open thread. Yeah, I agree that a bunch of donors are going to try to pick the GOP nominee and cram it down the throats of the people like Jimppj. However that being said they can't make them vote for them in a primary or in a general election

    It worked with Romney (none / 0) (#83)
    by CST on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 10:24:08 AM EST
    But we did get a few fun months in there before that.

    Yeah (none / 0) (#84)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 10:31:20 AM EST
    but I'm not seeing it this time. I guess they could try to starve all the other nuts out of money but they still can't make them show up come general election time.

    They didn't (none / 0) (#85)
    by CST on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 10:35:42 AM EST
    show up for Romney.

    Honestly I don't see the Republicans winning a national presidential election for a while.  Regardless of who they nominate.  The math just isn't there.


    Me either (none / 0) (#86)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 10:39:39 AM EST
    re: winning nationally.

    Disagree on them showing up for Romney. They showed up for Romney. The problem is that there are just not enough old white people to win an election. Or you can't rely on the south to carry you in presidential election.


    The Kochs are threatening (none / 0) (#87)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 10:42:14 AM EST
    to muck things up for the establishment

    Yet the Koch network's growing importance to Republicans -- its groups are planning to raise and spend a combined $300 million by Election Day -- and its expanding grass-roots footprint have put pressure on it to become more aggressive in reshaping the Republican Party as 2016 approaches.

    "The question is, once you build an army, shouldn't you use it, if you're going to remain relevant?" said Rick Wilson, a Florida-based Republican consultant who has worked with some organizations in the Koch network.
    Mr. Cruz had the most rapturous reception of all the speakers, earning a standing ovation with his call to impeach Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr.

    Interesting (none / 0) (#88)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 11:37:40 AM EST
    the Kochs are going to fund the kooks. Ted Cruz is a perfect example of a useful idiot for their purposes.

    You show your bias with that one (none / 0) (#112)
    by Slado on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 11:04:19 PM EST
    Kochs would no more support Cruz then they would Obama.   You don't become as successful as these guys backing losers.  I find the caricature of the Kochs by the left way more fascinating then the real thing.

    I suggest you watch one of them get interviewed by Barbra Walters in her upcoming special.  It might give you some perspective.  She discussed it on Stern the other day and he sounds completely different then the boogeyman invented by so many on the left.  But of course what fun would that be


    Going by (none / 0) (#131)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 02:37:28 PM EST
    what the article says. You can disagree with that article but that is pretty much what it is saying.

    They've backed some pretty bad candidates so they're not all that much better than a lot of people. They pretty much seem to be very good at destruction of state budgets for sure though.

    My problem is people any person trying to buy congress or the presidency like they want to do but Citizen's United allows this kind of stuff. So in reality my problem is more with the disastrous Citizen United decision than with any particular donor.


    Dawn of the Planet of the Apes (none / 0) (#92)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 01:43:07 PM EST
    I just watched this on PPV

    it's really excellent.  91% on RT. I give it 99.  Sometimes reboots are just about making money but this one really makes sense.  The excellent CG really brings the apes to life in ways that makeup simply could never could.  No matter how good it was.  Great effects, great story, great way to spend a couple of hours.

    They just don't make COINTELPRO... (none / 0) (#95)
    by kdog on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 02:43:04 PM EST
    infiltrators like they used too...two undercover clown posers were called out by the real protesters as cops, one them proceeds to pull his gun on protesters and a Reuters photo journalist and start making arrests.

    Back to rat school for you two, tough guys!  And well done protesters of Berkley!

    Why is the cop holding his gun sideways? (none / 0) (#99)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 04:01:15 PM EST
    While I Don't Know... (none / 0) (#102)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 04:36:39 PM EST
    ...it would appear that these two undercover cops aren't very good at it.

    What caught my eye, is OPD has contacted the 'outside agency'.  What does that mean, who would send undercover officers into Oakland and why doesn't Oakland PD seemed concerned that some agency is coming into their jurisdiction without notification in what appears to be an attempt to escalate violence.  Not only would that endanger peaceful protesters, but OPD as well.


    I've always associated the "sideways" (none / 0) (#109)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Dec 11, 2014 at 07:04:58 PM EST
    gun with street thugs and rappers, etc. Weird to see a cop do it. Maybe they think it's more intimidating or something?

    it's a stupid way to shoot. (none / 0) (#113)
    by fishcamp on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 07:11:27 AM EST
    It's all but impossible to line up the front and rear sites with what you're shooting at, unless you tilt your head in that direction as well.  I agree with sarc, it's some type of hip way to appear superior.  Shooter, jim and a few others could tell us they don't teach one to shoot that way.  My father and uncles taught me the proper way to shoot, including breathing, slow squeezing the trigger, and lining up the sights with the target.  Bullets are expensive.

    I Woulnd't Be Surprised... (none / 0) (#118)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 10:04:01 AM EST
    ...if people working undercover are taught to handle their weapons differently that they were trained.  Probably a lot of subtly to blending/fitting in and making sure you don't do this or that like a trained cop.

    I wonder how they were discovered, as the picture has pretty much ended their undercover days.  Lucky for them they weren't infiltrating a group of actual criminals.


    One of the CHP undercover (none / 0) (#114)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 08:03:41 AM EST
    officers  displayed his service revolver after his partner was knocked to the ground. These two officers were there to try and get information to avert possible freeway closures stemming from protestors moving onto freeways. The only person harmed was the officer shoved to the ground.

    Lt Chris Bolton from the Oakland PD (5.00 / 3) (#115)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 09:23:22 AM EST
    Was pretty concerned about this behavior and situation in the comments.

    People are going to protest.  That's their right.  Law enforcement attempting to obstruct that will only create a bigger problem.  Think about how you feel when the Egyptian military threatens Egyptian protesters.....it's the same thing.  When the people can't protest, that is oppression.


    That is Not a Good Enough Excuse (5.00 / 3) (#121)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 10:37:45 AM EST
    ...they were there to gather intelligence about a freeway closing, really ?  No mention of a crime or criminals, just general intelligence regarding people protesting.

    Is that information so secretive, that they only way they could possible gather it is undercover cops.  But more importantly, is this even a police issue, maybe they should send cops to contractors to see if the new overpass is going to be completed on time, or if the infiltrate public works to find out if they are going to fix the water-main break on Canal street.  Anything related to traffic, send in the undercovers.

    I think investigating violent crimes and criminals is a far better use of public funds then gaining intelligence about traffic.

    To effectively gather intelligence about protestors on a freeway, they needed to hide their faces with bandanas.  I would like to see the paperwork defining their objectives, otherwise this smells a whole lot like cops going undercover for nefarious reasons.  

    What exactly were they going to do with that intelligence anyways, nothing that the OPD couldn't do already.  And why not tell OPD, it doesn't make sense.  None of it does.

    And lastly, what other kids of undercover work were these two doing, how much did their public outing cost the taxpayers ?  I would hate to think they risked real investigations, with real criminals, just to find out if protesters might shut down a freeway for a couple hours.

    Shameful, especially when you consider why people are protesting.


    Please note these areb two California (none / 0) (#123)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 11:56:56 AM EST
    Highway Patrol officers. Mingling amongst the crowd of protestors to suss out whether there will be a move to a freeway ramp seems a reasonable assignment imo. If their usual assignment is investigation, they likely concentrate on car theftnrings, vehicles fraudulently registered in another state, etc.

    You Mean Investigate Crimes... (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 12:50:03 PM EST
    ...not investigations as to what direction protesters are headed.  I am pretty sure cops would like to know what every citizen is doing, that doesn't justify sending in undercover people to get that information.

    Using undercover officers to investigate where protesters are going is wrong and nothing that could not be accomplished in a uniform.  And I am pretty sure OPD knows what direction protesters are walking and if they is a freeway in that direction.  And I am pretty sure, with radios and cars, they can adjust much faster than folks walking down the street.

    I really hope you don't believe that uniformed cops are incapable of investigating "car theftnrings, vehicles fraudulently registered in another state, etc."  But more importantly, what does that have to do with people protesting ?


    That brought me up short (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by sj on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 04:34:04 PM EST
    Please note these areb two California  (none / 0) (#123)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 10:56:56 AM MDT

    Highway Patrol officers

    So I decided to see if highway patrol (CHP) officers typically did undercover. All google first page results for that search yielded reference to these supposed undercover highway patrolmen. Second page also, for the most part, with some references to undercover when what was really being discussed was unmarked cars. Then it was back to this incident.

    In the interest of thoroughness, however, there are undercover highway patrol Lego sets.

    Conclusion: WTF is an undercover highway patrolman, anyway? Sounds more like an off-duty wannabe.



    If you're saying they have to improve (none / 0) (#124)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 12:08:33 PM EST
    their monitoring because of what happened last week, I agree.

    The fact is that they should've used people who wouldn't be recognizable to the protestors, and monitoring a protest from across the street shouldn't be beyond the skill set of a trained officer, IMHO.


    I assume they were mingling and listening. (none / 0) (#125)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 12:12:21 PM EST
    Which with only two of them there (none / 0) (#126)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 12:33:54 PM EST
    probably made them stand out like a tarantula on a wedding cake.  Better to have 4 or 5 people, say that they were inspired by what happened last week, and then listen and mingle.  This was a failure of imagination by their higher-ups, and they reacted as they probably do when narked out on a undercover job, draw the gun and badge, and take control of the scene.

    Why would infiltrating the protest march (none / 0) (#117)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Dec 12, 2014 at 09:29:07 AM EST
    Tell them more than careful observation from, say across the street?

    I was listening to the KCBS AM station in San Francisco last week, and it was apparent that the cops were taken by surprise when the 880 freeway was blocked in Oakland by the protest march then.

    That the cops in Oakland try to shut down protests instead of managing them is nothing new.