New Year's Eve Open Thread

2014 is coming to an end. Are you glad or sorry?

For those of you heading out on the town, have a great time.

For those of you staying in, here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

Happy New Year everyone!

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    Wow... a new year! (5.00 / 7) (#1)
    by desertswine on Wed Dec 31, 2014 at 06:17:59 PM EST
    I'm gonna do it right this time.  Happy New Year to All.

    Yeah happy nu year (none / 0) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 08:41:57 AM EST
    it always seems to happen at about the the I finally have stopped writing the previous year on things like checks.

    Going to be an interesting year.


    Happy New Year to everyone (5.00 / 6) (#2)
    by caseyOR on Wed Dec 31, 2014 at 06:46:28 PM EST
    here at TL.  May 2015 bring good things for all.

    Tomorrow will be my very first (none / 0) (#6)
    by ZtoA on Wed Dec 31, 2014 at 10:07:11 PM EST
    full Ducks game watched, by me, and 'live blogged' (meaning multiple calls to my good friend) football game. I'm very excited about it. Happy 2015 to everyone too. Hope you are doing well CaseyOR!

    ZtoA, just read your final comment (5.00 / 5) (#9)
    by caseyOR on Wed Dec 31, 2014 at 10:57:38 PM EST
    in the last open thread. You have really been through the wringer. Hopefully, getting off that blood pressure drug will help you feel better.

    I am still in the Land of Lincoln. Fourteen months ago I came back thinking I would be here for six weeks. But what else could I do? Family is family; I loved my sister; and we only get one mother. So, I am here until I don't need to be here anymore. And then I will go back home.

    Tomorrow I will be at the nursing home with my mom watching the Ducks play football. She is the one who started me in sports and taught me about football. To this day, thanks to mom's coaching, I can still throw a perfect spiral, just not as far as I once did.

    GO, DUCKS!!!!!


    Yes, CaseyOR family is family (none / 0) (#18)
    by ZtoA on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 02:55:01 AM EST
    and whatever it takes when the time(s) come. I hope you have a great time at the nursing home (I've spent some very nice many hours with my dad at his), and I do not even know what "throwing a perfect spiral" is, but I still can appreciate the idea. I got into the Ducks after a long power outage here when I spent 2 hours talking to a very close friend on my cell phone - she is a serious sports fan and a, well, a great, artist. And a great friend. I got inspired. I watched most of a Ducks game at her house (I brought appropriate snacks) and she and her husband seriously schooled me on football (in the nicest way, they did not judge my lack of knowing anything about how the game is played or presented).

    Now one of my nieces is getting me into pro football so I will be a Seahawks fan. And my daughter's best friend from grade school (who visits me regularly - she is my second daughter, Ha!) is committed to getting me to be a Blazer's fan, so that means I need to learn about pro basketball.

    One thing I've learned about sports is that it is pretty much all about the players and they are humans with really interesting personal stories/lives. Just in tiny little Oregon the Ducks/Beavers rivalry means so much more than the sport. The Beavers, just this year, took out a full page in The Oregonian to congratulate Marcus Mariota (sp?). What a GD class thing to do! Beavers - OSU draws (and has alum) from rural OR, from conservative areas and offers lots of ag classes. UofO draws from urban very liberal areas/parents, and offers many degrees, but lots are simply 'liberal arts' with an eye on the master's or PHDs to follow. The sports rivalry has reflected the cultural disharmony in the state.But for the Beavers to congratulate a Duck in the Portland paper is just so great.

    I have a post-it up by my computer saying "I am a *Duck* fan" so I do not say (according to my friend) a "Ducks" fan. Sports are just so complicated, but if I ever make lots of mistakes pls school me. I am very willing to learn.

    Also, probably after about May, I wold love to 'do' coffee with you again - hopefully this time 'as myself'. I am also planning to get into some home gardening for edibles and I know that is a subject you are into. I so hope you have a nice 2015 and to everyone - woohoo!


    Happy New Year (5.00 / 5) (#3)
    by MO Blue on Wed Dec 31, 2014 at 06:59:11 PM EST
    everyone. May 2015 be filled with everything you need and some of the things you want.

    Happy New Year from Hilo! (5.00 / 8) (#4)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Dec 31, 2014 at 08:35:58 PM EST
    Wish I could tell you that it's a gorgeous day in paradise, but truth be told, it was pouring rain when we first arrived late this morning -- the same weather system that drenched us in Honolulu yesterday.

    But it's finally starting to clear up right now and should be pretty decent tonight. This weekend's report calls for mostly sunny with passing showers through the weekend. Only in Hawaii. I can't see if there's any snow on Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa, because both mountains are totally socked in by the clouds.

    Tonight, we're going out to dinner at one of my favorite restaurants, Café Pesto, in the older part of town (since restored) along the waterfront. Afterward, we'll be going to a party at our friends' condo overlooking Hilo Bay, with a big fireworks show along the waterfront at midnight.

    Tomorrow morning, we're going to take my mother and aunt up to Kaumana to visit our new house. The deal closed pretty quickly once our offer was accepted at Thanksgiving, and we picked up the keys from the realtors' office today, which was on the way to our hotel from the airport. Then in the afternoon, we're off to a Rose Bowl party at another friend's beachfront house in Keaukaha, just to the north of Hilo Airport. (Go Ducks.)

    Kaumana is an older residential area of Hilo that overlooks the town and Hilo Bay, although our house is actually snuggled up next to the rainforest on a quarter-acre lot. We're going to take our sweet time moving over here, because we've first got to repaint and furnish the place, and we're definitely remodel and upgrade the kitschy '70s-era kitchen and dining area. But as of right now, we anticipate being fully relocated by summer.

    Elder and Younger Daughter are back on Oahu, having made other plans with their friends for the long weekend. Can't blame them; when you're in your twenties, New Year's Eve in Honolulu is actually a very happening place. When we were their age we did the same thing. We got them tickets to see Bill Maher at the Sheraton Waikiki tonight, and after that they'll be making the rounds.

    Happy New Year, everybody. Aloha.

    You're a good dad (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Dadler on Wed Dec 31, 2014 at 08:48:31 PM EST
    Nice tix. Enjoy the glow from Hilo. Great town.

    We're off to The City to celebrate our 18th wedding anniversary with a nice dinner.

    Enjoy your night, blessings to the extended posse, and may 2015 be a good one.

    And the same goes for all my other pals here at TL. Peace and love to everyone this new year!!


    Hope you enjoyed your evening. (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 12:03:34 AM EST
    We just got back from dinner, and we're off to the party. I miss San Francisco.

    But we later decided to come over here instead. Bill Maher has been playing Honolulu every New Year's Eve for quite some time now, it's become a tradition with him. He plays Maui Saturday night.

    Donald, I love hearing about your family (none / 0) (#7)
    by ZtoA on Wed Dec 31, 2014 at 10:13:29 PM EST
    , life, work and part of the globe! Best wishes!

    My daughter's (wonderful) BF (who could not come to PDX for Xmas) was caught in the Catalina storm yesterday on his maiden voyage in his new (=old refurbished sail boat with lots of very experienced sailors) in the storm in over 20' waves and - well, he and everyone in the sail boat survived. But some on Catalina did not live thru that storm. It was a very strange weather event. Lots of damage to life and property.

    Hope your daughter, and mine, who are 'out on the town'  (or at parties at homes of their peers) tonite have lots of great fun!


    I heard it was bad. (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 12:01:25 AM EST
    My cousin was up in the Lake Arrowhead area yesterday and got stranded by the sudden blizzard. Luckily, she had a place to stay, as she was at her friend's place when it struck, so she spent the night there.

    Watched the TCM (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 31, 2014 at 10:24:15 PM EST
    on Elvis and then a DVD of his gospel music. A voice for the ages.

    So I wish you all, even those I disagree with, a Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year.

    And may we all receive the mercy we need when we shout for justice.

    And finally, may we all receive what I have always asked for.

    One more year.

    Good night!

    Happy New Year to all (5.00 / 5) (#10)
    by Peter G on Wed Dec 31, 2014 at 11:15:56 PM EST
    from 2015 (on the East coast).

    The time stamp on my comment (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Peter G on Wed Dec 31, 2014 at 11:17:08 PM EST
    is one hour slow! It is actually just after midnight here.

    Is the "official" TalkLeft clock (none / 0) (#34)
    by Peter G on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 11:45:34 AM EST
    actually set to Central time, and I just never noticed it before?  Seems unlikely, considering J is in Denver, on Mountain time.  Any other theories?

    Nope, it's set on EST (none / 0) (#35)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 11:56:37 AM EST
    As it's 3 hours ahead of PST.

    The truth is it's on Jeralyn time, (none / 0) (#85)
    by fishcamp on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 07:23:14 AM EST
    I think.

    The truth is (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 07:28:33 AM EST
    under "your preferences" and "interface" you can set the time zone to anything you want

    That seemed like a promising suggestion (none / 0) (#95)
    by Peter G on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 09:14:15 AM EST
    but I just checked my "preferences" and found it was already set to Eastern Standard.  Yet the times my comments were marked as posted were one hour earlier than the true time.  So I'm still baffled.

    Peter, I think the (5.00 / 3) (#96)
    by Zorba on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 09:42:30 AM EST
    Time Zone stuff is skewed.  I was finding the same thing as you, but when I set my Time Zone to Eastern Daylight Time, my comments posted at the correct, current time.
    Go figure.

    Good Catch Zorba (none / 0) (#103)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 11:24:38 AM EST
    I just looked and realized mine is set on EDT too, making the time correct (although wrongly).

    You're just going to have to (none / 0) (#110)
    by fishcamp on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 12:23:27 PM EST
    believe me this time folks.  There's all four of our  time zones, and then there's Jeralyn time.  Wonder how the Russians do it with eleven time zones?

    Four time zones, fish? (none / 0) (#113)
    by Zorba on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 12:50:45 PM EST
    Last I looked, Alaska and Hawaii are part of the United States, and their time zones are each different.
    So we have six time zones.   ;-)

    Very true , but I was speaking (none / 0) (#115)
    by fishcamp on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 12:59:45 PM EST
    about the lower 48.  Sorry Donald and Sara.  Now there's a combo never thought of before.  Then there are the states where the time zone zig zags through the state.

    Which makes me wonder (none / 0) (#112)
    by Zorba on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 12:46:16 PM EST
    what's going to happen with the time stamps when we actually switch to Daylight Savings Time next Spring.   ;-)

    Happy New Year! (5.00 / 12) (#12)
    by Slado on Wed Dec 31, 2014 at 11:55:01 PM EST
    My lovely wife was kind enough to sneak a 16 oz locally brewed lager into my room and then agreed to stay past visiting hours and sleep on the couch for the night.   As many probably know you don't get much sleep in a hospital room with all the comings and goings.

    So here's to true love for all in 2015.

    That is true love, Slado. (none / 0) (#16)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 12:09:56 AM EST
    Here' s hoping 2015 brings you better health, my friend.

    I did not realize you were in the hospital. That is tough. Will this be a short stay.


    Let's make 2015 the best year EVAH! (none / 0) (#17)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 12:15:52 AM EST

    I hope you'll be feeling better and can return home soon. Me, I'd just like my hair to grow back. Right now, I look like a ripe cantaloupe with eyes.


    Yes I will be home this weekend (5.00 / 5) (#20)
    by Slado on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 05:11:35 AM EST
    The doctors informed me today that they are out of treatment options for my tumor and in addition I've developed an infection from my hardware used to replace my T-10 vertebrae that they can't "cure" because to do so would require a massive surgery to replace much of the hardware and my anatomy in its current state couldn't handle such a huge surgery.  Also I doubt I could and in the long run it wouldn't cure my tumor anyway.

    So they asked if I would like to go home and receive nurse care and I said of course.   Right now the pain is under control (thanks to lots of drugs) and they did some cultures to find out what drug will work best to redeuce the infection and using these drugs on a continuing basis will mean I'll need supervision and some medical hardware (sweet hospital bed being the coolest one).

    For those keeps score at home around February 2nd it will mark the 18th year I've been dancing with this freind of mine and I don't plan on stopping anytime soon.

    My wife and I agree on all points and also that while it probably means I won't be celebrating a 25th anniversary with her our 14th in September is no problem :)

    My wife and I face the difficult discussion with the kids this week that the while Daddy isn't going to get fixed this time he's not going to die right now and the extra equipment and people will help Daddy feel better and offer more help for my mommy.  We have always been honest with them in the past and because we have been and they know that I've had this disease off and on their whole lives we are in good shape to have the conversation with them it just doesn't make it any easier.

    So here's to everyone remembering who and what's important in 2015 and making each day count!


    This makes me so sad, Slado. (5.00 / 6) (#27)
    by Anne on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 09:47:57 AM EST
    I know you won't ever lose your fighting spirit, and that you will persevere in order to help your family come to terms with this latest news, but, damn, this just breaks my heart.

    Sending you love and strength to deal with whatever's ahead; if there's anything we can do, please just put it out there.

    Will be keeping all of you in my thoughts and prayers.


    Courageous, thoughtful, poignant, (5.00 / 6) (#33)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 11:30:28 AM EST
    realistic. Thinking of you and your family.

    My thoughts and prayers are with you. (5.00 / 4) (#42)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 02:57:49 PM EST
    This past year, I framed and mounted on my desk at work a favorite quote of mine, from the late Indian prime minister Jawarherlal Nehru:

    "We live in a world that is full of beauty, charm and adventure. There is no end to the adventures we can have, if we seek them with our eyes wide open."

    I do not envy your task, my friend. It's not easy to have that sort of conversation. I had one earlier last year with the girls, to prepare them for any eventuality since my own disease was quite aggressive at that point.

    Like your own children, they had also watched me battle through several bouts of malignancy while growing up, so I truly thought they'd understand and appreciate my bluntness in imparting the reality of my particular situation. And yet the obvious denial in their eyes was at once fierce, piercing and overwhelming. It really took me aback, and I was not at all prepared for that.

    So for what it's worth, Slado, I think it's important to that when you do have that conversation with your children, you seek always to maintain both hope and promise in the forefront of not only your loved ones' thoughts, but also your own as well.

    Because honestly, that hope and promise is testament to our own true faith and our affirmation of life. And with that faith and affirmation comes the comforting reassurance and belief that no matter what the future may hold for us, everything is going to be fine in the long run, as sure as the sun will rise.

    Peace be with you this new year, brother. Me ke aloha pumehana.


    Thank you (none / 0) (#82)
    by Slado on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 06:20:45 AM EST
    Very good thoughts and ones I take to heart and will use going forward.

    Thank you.


    I'm never very good with words (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 09:08:52 AM EST
    in these situations.  But please know you will be in my thoughts .

    A wonderful life-affirming statement, Slado (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by christinep on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 06:16:34 PM EST
    Thank you very much for your soul searched testament for living to the utmost of our ability. And, may I be one of the first to extend best wishes on your upcoming September 14th anniversary. Blessings to you both.

    Yes, I am also sad/glad to hear your comment (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by ZtoA on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 11:10:48 PM EST
    about your life. Sorry you have to deal with this!!

    On xmas eve a very close personal friend of mine suddenly fell and damaged her already damaged body and had to spend the night in the ER. She has to take Cumidin (a blood thinner) and so her damaged face showed serious bruising pretty much immediately. Her rescuer husband was pretty much accused of abusing her. She has now a cast on her arm that is in the colors of the Oregon Ducks. And, for me, the last 4 mights were among the most horrid in my life, trips to Drs and wards from, apparently, a severe reaction to some calcium blocker BP med my Dr insisted I go on. My friend had to go on that too and it caused (or added to) her heart problems and she has had to spend many weeks in hospitals and has to now take many heart meds and more. Permanent damage, at least for her.

    But this is all to say that people on TL do understand how life can lead to uncertain conclusions. At those times, love in families and friends is the utmost importance - to the sufferer and to the people who love that sufferer.  You dealing straight with your children is great - I'm just starting to learn that in my personal life. I think it is just as important for them as it might be for you and your wife.  And maybe, for many generations to follow.

    I'm very glad you have hope for this year. I've had to face death so very many times in the last 15 years so that now I am at peace with it. I see death as just another step - and life is all about steps. Death is just a next step in life. I don't "believe" in "life after death", but I do think/know that life does not end with death.

    Thank you for your inspiration/confirmation that to be honest and to be your true self with your family, friends and online is a very communicative thing.


    in personal strength. You have it in spades.

    God Bless and my thoughts and prayers are with you.


    Our hugs (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Zorba on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 04:09:18 PM EST
    and prayers are with you, my brother, as well as your loved ones.
    Keep on keeping on and fighting, Slado.  That's all you can do at this point.  We will be thinking of you and sending you all the positive energy that we can.

    This makes me sad (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by sj on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 09:24:56 PM EST
    But if I've learned anything about you it is that you will indeed make every day count.

    Blessings to you.


    Happy New Year! (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Politalkix on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 07:34:04 AM EST
    Happy New Year! Happy New Year!
    Warm wishes to all!

    Reading between the lines (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Politalkix on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 10:39:44 AM EST
    North Korea




    I saw this (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 11:00:12 AM EST
    thanks for posting it.  

    New Year Greetings to All: (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 12:31:30 PM EST
    Happiness and Good Health.

    Stock Mkt, at all time high...Yipee! (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 01:55:56 PM EST
    Let's hear it for the 1%.

    Two terms of Obama-nomics:  

    "Permanently higher disemployment, continued flat wages, median household income down since 2000, and faster growth in income inquality than under Bush."

    Higher rate of income/wealth inequality than all modern countries, and even most third world countries.

    Just one question:
        How could a Republican President do more for the obscenely Rich than the President we have?

    If a Republican gets elected in 2016... (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by unitron on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 09:16:51 PM EST
    ...I'm sure we'll all soon learn what more they could do for the obscenely rich, but more importantly, what they'll do to those who are not.

    Speaking of 2016---

    Jewpac Kippur retweeted
    albro ‏@BromanConsul Feb 20

    "Is your refrigerator running?"

    "Hasn't decided yet," I say, winking at my refrigerator & hanging up.

    A "FRIDGE 2016" banner hangs above him


    Answer the question please (5.00 / 6) (#55)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 06:29:48 PM EST
    Leave all your favorite strawmen aside, leave everything aside. Do you find it acceptable that unarmed citizens are being killed by police on a regular basis?
    If yes, why is this not a huge step toward tyranny?
    If no, why is protesting against it so distasteful and dangerous to you?

    I really should ignore you because of the

    BS in your comment.
    And if you had been interested you would have read and known that I think:

    a. Along with the mayor I think the police need more training.

    b. People should not resist arrest and if they do then bad things will happen.

    The protesters have tried to make this racial. It isn't.

    If you are concerned about young blacks being killed go to Chicago.

     A. Training without accountability = BS
     B. Obey or die = BS
    Leave the race out of it Jim,leave the protesters out it. Are you comfortable with the status quo with CITIZENS dying at the hands of POLICE. Yes or no Jim, just a simple yes or no.

    Such a great question (none / 0) (#84)
    by Slado on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 06:50:05 AM EST

    I do think in some rare cases use of deadly force is the only answer even if the suspect is unarmed.  

    However I do not think our system as presently constructed is prepared to adjudicate these cases fairly in terms of how high a burden we place on the police to act appropriately during these incidents.  

    In general I see a trend of hostility developing in our police forces towards the citizenry and a increased use of force against us by police to carry out the enforcement of simple laws.   The Garner case being a perfect example.


    rare ? (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 08:28:30 AM EST
    That's the rub, it's becoming all too common. To the Apologists anybody who points that out becomes a race baiting, cop hating rabble rouser. Yes the police have a tough job and violent encounters are inevitable, but somewhere along the way the use of excessive force has become acceptable to the "system". We are told by the Apologists to just stfu and accept dead citizens in the streets as a price for our "safety" and that the problem lies with a certain segment of the citizenry that fails to instantly submit to the cops in every situation.

    Interesting article (none / 0) (#184)
    by Slado on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 12:27:08 AM EST

    Didn't know that many cops are killed each year.  

    But as you say there in lies the rub.  What should the numbers look like?  More citizens are killed by cops then vice versa so is that acceptable?

    My answer was to just suppose that it is almost statistically impossible for there to be no cases where the cops are not justified in using deadly force against a suspect that may not ve armed.

    What I do believe is that number should be very, very small and we need to establish a clear definition of what is and what is not a situation that justifies the use of both deadly and physical force.

    The article makes an excellent point that we simply have bad data and that the lack of data leads both sides to take extreme positions that do nothing to solve the problem.


    A few things (none / 0) (#91)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 08:56:23 AM EST
    I learned from Ferguson:

    That police can step to the microphone and lie and law and order types will stoop to any depth necessary to justify them.

    That the same people who rail against unions and their thuggery love the police unions and their thuggery.

    That the same people who claim that racism is dead are the same ones who think that citizens in the black community all lie and can't be believed.

    That poor working class blacks are caught between a rock and a hard place, between the Left owned by public and police employee unionists and the Right owned by guntoters who think that whoever carries the weapon and pulls the trigger is always right.

    That this has been a wakeup call for many right and left as to who the real Constitutionalists are.

    That the same blabberers right and left who rail against Big Government and its abuses have no problem with the enforcers of Big  Government and their abuses -- Big Police.


    Chip, your complaints would have (none / 0) (#106)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 11:48:20 AM EST
    more credibility if you didn't write things that are demonstrably wrong. You posted this yesterday in response to my proof that Johnson had lied about Wilson choking Brown.

    Is there some reason you missed this on pp 49-50:

    "Johnson: his arm came out the window and that's the first initial contact they had ... The officer grabbed a hold of Big Mike's shirt around the neck area.

    Prosecutor: So did he grab his shirt or his neck around the neck area???

    Johnson: It was more of both because he had a real good grip on him."

    Even the prosecutor knew what he was talking about and moved on. You however are stuck on stupid.

    The facts are that the prosecutor did not stop there and since you reference pages 49 - 50, let's visit them starting just above your last quoted sentence.

    1 So did he grab his neck or his shirt

    2 around the neck area?

    3 A It was more of both because he had a real
    4 good grip on him.

    5 Was there any warning, did he just stuck

    6 his hand out and grab, does he say something, did he
    7 say anything?

    8 A No, ma'am, at this time when the door had
    9 closed back on him, he didn't say anything. His arm
    10 almost in an instant came out the window, his left
    ll arm, I remember it was his left arm, came out the

    12 window and touched Big Mike around his neck area and
    13 his throat. I watched his hands, you know, they
    14 really tightened up, so yeah, he had a good grip on

    15 it, that what's I saw first.

    And since you didn't want us reading further, I wondered why. What is there that Chip wants us to ignore? From page 52:

    While the officer is grabbing ahold of Big Mike, he kind loses grip around his neck, that's how 9 I knew he had a good grip. He never fully let Big10 Mike go, now he has a good grasp on his shirt. So ll now Big Mike's able to turn different angles while 12 he is trying to pull away.

    He had a good grip on his neck but lost it and now he has a hold of the shirt.

    I'll even throw in a link so no one will have to search.

    And the ME testified that he found no evidence of trauma to Brown's neck.

    So Johnson didn't see what he thought he saw. Hey, I'll cut him some slack and say he thought he did and his imagination and bias against the police has led to an exaggeration.

    And yes, as the prosecutor said, people lie to GJ and in court on the stand. Some of it based on what they thought they saw. Some of it deliberate.

    It is the duty of the GJ to determine if there is enough evidence to indict and for the state, with all its power, to go to trial.

    Because of that prosecutors should be, although they aren't always, very diligent in presenting all of the evidence. The GJ understood that Brown was killed because of his actions. First the robbery and then the confrontation and physical assault on a police officer.

    And yes. The poor working class, of all races, are caught between. Between the rioters who have destroyed their neighborhoods and the Sharpton's and his allies in the media who incite and inflame with a false narrative just as you seek to do.


    Did you miss this (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 01:06:29 PM EST
    deliberately or accidentally on purpose:

    While the officer is grabbing ahold of Big Mike, he kind of loses grip around his neck

    So then the grip around Brown's  neck was momentary, right??? and would not have left an injury per the prosecutor and military forensic pathologist, right!!! or did you miss that part in the report???

    that's how I knew he had a good grip. He never fully let Big Mike go, now he has a good grasp on his shirt.

    On his shirt, Jim -- good grasp on his shirt -- probably under his neck twistng it under his throat like tough guys do.

    What part of those words escape your understanding???


    I should have known (none / 0) (#97)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 09:47:03 AM EST
     I would have to restate my world view or else you would pick pick pick....

    The police already have accountability.  Supervisors at all levels. Elected officials. Both professional and social media. Your problem is you don't like the  GJ results at Ferguson and NY.

    I didn't put race into it. Sharpton and his ilk, along with his water carriers in the media did. The protesters have expanded it. Do you think there would be this much uproar had Wilson been black and Brown white?? And why has the fact that the NYPD supervisor at the Garner arrest is a black female not referred to??

    Given that news is supposedly about things that are unusual and that a black person killing a white person is rare....... what happened to the story about the white male who was beaten to death by a group of black youths near Ferguson??

    And why no protesters in Chicago about blacks killing blacks??

    The narrative is that white cops are killing blacks and, by exclusion, not killing whites.

    So..... "citizens" being killed?? A simple yes/no answer?

    You first.

    Do you still beat your wife?

    Let me know when you want a detailed response.


    You cannot answer a simple question (5.00 / 4) (#98)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 10:16:44 AM EST
    It's not about Sharpton
    it's not about Chicago
    it's not about citizen on citizen crime
    It's about Police on Citizen violence.
    You seem to be the one always interjecting race into a simple question.
    Once again let me ask are you comfortable with police causing the death of unarmed citizens on a regular basis? It is not a trick question.
    My answer is a resounding NO. Your answer seems to be as long as blacks are killing blacks in Chicago and Al Sharpton has a big mouth that police violence should not even be questioned.
    Answer the question Jim.

    Not a Good Question (2.00 / 3) (#102)
    by RickyJim on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 11:18:05 AM EST
    Once again let me ask are you comfortable with police causing the death of unarmed citizens on a regular basis?

    A few well publicized incidents don't make a "regular basis".  Do you have statistics?  If you used "unnecessary deaths" instead of referring to being unarmed, the question would be better.  I asked recently in this forum about a comparison between the number of deaths to innocents due to concealed weapon possession by civilians versus crimes prevented by civilian possession of concealed weapons.  I didn't get an answer.  Why should you expect anything better?


    Nothing to see here right? (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 11:47:30 AM EST
    You mean the statistics that are NOT kept?
    It's only a few right?
    It's only the publicized ones that matter right ?
    Gee I can  name a dozen or so citizen deaths over the past year off the top of my head. One a month no big deal right? No harm(at least not enough to trouble you)no foul right?
    One "unnecessary" death is a tragedy. Multiple "unnecessary" deaths is systemic failure.

    Okay fine (2.00 / 1) (#123)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 01:49:15 PM EST
    Gee I can  name a dozen or so citizen deaths over the past year off the top of my head.

    Let's see your list.

    And the "trick" is not in the question. The trick is in demanding a yes/no answer.

    As in, "Do you still  beat your wife."

    All deaths are tragedies. The scope and size depends on the person who has died and the circumstances. Assuming I die of natural causes my tragedy will be limited to my family and friends. JFK's was criminal national and huge.

    According to Walter Williams, a back professor of economics, author and libertarian/conservative, there are about 200 deaths of blacks and between 300-400 deaths of whites from police actions per year. That would be .00741% of the 2,697,539 blacks arrested. Since that number doesn't include the numbers of contacts who weren't arrested, such as Brown, then the percentage is even lower. Whites account for .00608% of the 6,578,133 arrested. So the percentage difference is .00133%.

    So cops aren't killing blacks at a statistically significant different rate. Yet that is the narrative being pushed.

    If we look at the totals, of the 9,499,725 arrested .00631%  wound up dead. That's a very small number.

    Now, what do we need to do to lower that number?

    Before I go on I want to point out that trying to reduce a failure rate by changing the process, when the process involves human interaction, is almost impossible. (Please remember I ran a Customer Service group and had a lot of exposure to trying to improve quality and reduce failure rate.)

    You want to talk about accountability. As I pointed out we already have accountability. Cameras might do some good in that they emphasize that records are being kept for accountability.


    I hit the post button by mistake (none / 0) (#125)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 02:04:22 PM EST
    to continue...

    Training in how to defuse a situation should help but once the physical acts start you're apt to see people losing control.

    So what else could we do?

    First, remove some of the low end crimes that are apt to cause confrontation. Our drug laws are tailor made to produce "criminals" and criminal acts.

    In that vein, accept the fact that high tobacco taxes cause smuggling. High alcohol taxes will reintroduce moonshine. Traffic cameras rigged to give tickets for failure to yield destroy confidence in government. I could go on but you get the point.

    Secondly, enforce crimes of violence stricter and keep the perps off the street longer. No pleading down attacks.

    But to conclude, let me go back to the failure rate and Quality Control... What finally came through, over years and years, is that quality is not inspected in. It is built in. You need better parts and better designs.

    You will get that when you start paying more money to law enforcement.

    Say about a 70% boost above where we are now.

    Of course that will cause the folks getting the high pay to think they have to arrest more to prove they are needed and to keep their high pay job,


    You see "failure rate" (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 05:35:02 PM EST
    I see dead bodies. Sure LEO-Citizen interactions will never be perfect but the former MUST be held to a higher standard. I sense that you ARE uncomfortable with these deaths as you offer up some common sense improvements (decriminalization for sure). Of course you have to throw in your usual strawmen (taxes!). Wow and that 70% + for LE will have to come from somewhere. I tell you what Jim, to me there is a small chance that Wilson was completely justified on that high noon in Ferguson but there is a 0% chance he preformed his duty to "protect and serve". Apologists like you just shrug your soldiers and cite stats and mumble about about "failure rates". A fair and equal justice system is the bedrock of our nation. Shot dead in the street, or the Walmart,or the playground, or the stairwell, or merely tased or beaten does not seem like fair and equal justice to many people. For better or worse LEO's are the sword of justice and when you allow that sword a few oopsies, mulligans , get out of jail free cards and benefits of the doubt the bedrock begins to crumble. When does your "failure rate" become a devastating earthquake Jim ? I know another trick question.

    When I describe death as a tragedy (2.00 / 1) (#197)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 12:01:57 PM EST
    that puts it into the "uncomfortable" area.

    And you don't like "failure rates?" How else do you describe the killing of a suspect by the police when the intent is to arrest? It is a failure. And when you look at the numbers they become rates.

    And the police must be held to higher standards? Okay. Then pay enough to attract people who will perform to that standard. Tell us this. How much would you demand to be a policeman? A job in which you can be killed each and every time you go to work.

    Supervise?? We have that in multiple layers. Individual cameras on police will help supervisors hold them accountable.

    Strawmen?? Really?? You can't connect the dots between government activities that make breaking the law to obtain what you want necessary/less expensive and the actual acts and results? Have you ever heard of prohibition? Do you think an addict would be buying dope from a street dealer if he could go to his local pharmacy and cheaply obtain the drugs? Do you think people would be buying cigarettes at 50 cents each if they could buy a pack of 20 for a dollar????

    It appears that you want to somehow stop the effect while supporting the cause.

    And when Wilson was attacked by Brown he was no longer protecting "us." Wilson was protecting himself. And if you consider that the police are part of us then he was protecting us.

    You can wax emotional until the cows come home but emotions won't fix the problem.

    And one area that I didn't address is this. How do we teach ourselves, particularly our youth, to cooperate with the police and, if justified, wait until they have a chance to point out that the police have acted unwisely or illegally??  Do you think that perhaps the 70 something percent of fatherless black children has something to do with the 28% of arrests from around 11% of the population? Do you think that might have some bearing on the young blacks killing blacks in Chicago and other metro areas? And no, I get it that this also applies to whites. But the issue, the false narrative, is that it is cops killing blacks.

    Why do you ignore that part of the "failure rate."


    I am glad you are uncomfortable (5.00 / 2) (#206)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 02:53:01 PM EST
    but your description of these tragedies just makes it seem so anti-septic. Many of these deaths are not a result of failed arrests but rather a serious misjudgement of the situation. Besides missing an arrest for a minor crime is no big deal compared to gunplay in the streets.

    There is plenty of supervision right? Too bad most of this appears to be CYA rather than accountability.  It appears more effort is put into whitewashing their deeds rather than policing themselves.  

    No, I am not trying to eliminate cause and effect. Of course there will always be belligerent/dumb/disabled/distracted citizens but ideally the effect should never be their death.Sure stuff happens but to brush it off as a mere statistic is demeaning to the spirit of justice.

    Wilson(talk about whitewashes) was just trying to defend himself when he chased an unarmed man down and shot him in the street? Don't make me laugh. He had plenty of options and you know it.

    Still with the strawmen eh, Blacks in Chicago blah,blah,blah. You are the one ALWAYS bringing race into the equation. I want to talk about the quality/legality or lack thereof in LEO performance. You want to talk about fatherless black kids. Focus Jim, your predjudices are showing.

    Yeah I get emotional when I see what has become of the justice system, I wish everyone did. No my emotions won't fix it but your acceptable "failure rates" and policy of always giving LEOs the benefit of the doubt is just sticking your head in the sand.


    Yes, they are a failed arrest (none / 0) (#208)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 04:10:03 PM EST
    unless you want to claim the officer just walked up and killed someone. I mean to use force the intent must be to arrest a resisting person or self protection that would lead to an arrest.

    And what do you mean by "spirit of justice?" I am not Bat Man and you are not Robin and waving our arms does nothing but stir the blood and run people away who might support some changes. That may sound strange but trust me. Many people will leave a conflict area, verbal or physical.

    Also, nix the strawman claims. Sharpton and his band of thieves were all over the TV and we had all the "hands up don't shoot" nonsense, etc.  They made it about blacks. Again that is so obviously incorrect it's laughable but it is how many many many people see the discussion because of Sharpton, the media, etc.

    And the way to get them back is to acknowledge "Chicago" and its brothers and start some actions there. Look at the totals. 388 shot/killed. 2231 shot wounded 68 other killed.


    He$$ that looks like Afghanistan

    You claim:

    No, I am not trying to eliminate cause and effect

    Yes, that's exactly what you want to do. You dismiss the causal effect of the government outlawing things the citizen wants and increases taxes to the point lawlessness makes sense to some.

    You deny the impact that fatherless kids have on society and crime and when pointed out you try and use the race card.

    Focus Jim, your predjudices are showing.

    Really?? Have trouble reading??

    And no, I get it that this also applies to whites. But the issue, the false narrative, is that it is cops killing blacks.

    And I give no one the benefit of the doubt. I was raised dirt poor and I probably personally know more about how the law favors the rich than you have read about.

    And that's why I believe in grand jury system. In Ferguson and in NYC they listened and looked at the evidence and wouldn't indict. That you disagree is obvious. I don't agree with them. I don't disagree with them. I accept the results.

    Now, if you want to throw away a system that has worked well for hundreds of years my advice is to be careful what you ask for.


    You didn't get an answer ... (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by Yman on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 05:07:59 PM EST
    ... because you're asking a loaded question (pun intended).  Apart from the fact that you asked a biased "question", you can also do your own research, rather than demanding answers from others.

    Jim (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 11:16:02 AM EST
    Supervisors at all levels.

    Would that be like Wilson's Supervisor who let him go back to the station unescorted to wash away the blood evidence and bag his own weapon and avoid giving a statement to investigators or filing a report until after he had met with his union rep????

    Right!!!! Gotcha. Wonderful supervision.

    what happened to the story about the white male who was beaten to death by a group of black youths near Ferguson??

    It was in southwest St Louis City -- not near Ferguson at all.

    And they have been arrested and charged and will do their time for murder as happens in all these cases.

    The same cannot be said about thugs with badges and guns who shoot unarmed citizens, kids with toys in Santa Rosa, girlfriends packing to leave in St Augustine, teens answering the door with remote controllers in Euharlee, texters in theatres in Tampa .............................. and family dogs everywhere


    Chip (none / 0) (#126)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 02:10:51 PM EST
    The issue isn't their crime.

    The issue is the lack of attention.

    As for Brown...Arresting and trying the police in LA resulted in what... The Simi Valley riots.... only cost over a billion and 53 people killed.. So arresting Wilson as a prophylactic to prevent the riots would not have worked UNLESS he was convicted.

    So one more time. The system worked as designed. You don't like the results


    Uncle Chip and all= (none / 0) (#138)
    by Palli on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 03:37:41 PM EST
    The first and highest ranking Ferguson officer on the scene and whose stories changed as well as evolved over time.
    But other gleanings from the GJ transcripts are even richer.

    The Ferguson Lt. Colonel was the second of 3 persons in the chain of command the Sgt. _notified of the "incident" by unanswered phone messages. Sgt._spoke to call #4, a Captain in person.) Sgt. __sent DW back to the PD without the appropriate procedural admonition to speak to no one except a superior officer. We believe he did speak to the one person, Officer Spradling ("Barbie" his pregnant girl friend) who was on Officer Light Duty and we believe also dispatching. The couple talked, DW admits it although her name and condition are redacted. It seems they are interrupted by an ambulance that has been sent to the PD. The couple told them medical care was not needed and the medics did not even enter the building.

    it was some time before the Ferguson Lt. Colonel arrived and the three discussed the "incident". At some point, "Barbie" left to drive to the couples' home to get new clothes for DW and we believe it was at this time that she took the duty belt and placed in the couple's car. (The duty belt was not returned and put into evidence for a month.)

    At 1:30pm, approx. 50 minutes after the case had been transferred to the County PD and eighty-seven minutes after the final shot killing Michael Brown, StL County Detective #1 from the Department of Crimes Against Persons arrived at the scene and was surprised to learn a Medical Examiner had not yet been summoned. As he spoke to the Ferguson officers another StLC Detective arrived to assume the case management and he (StLC Det.#1) was sent to FPD for a first cursory interview with DW.

    StLC Det. #1 went to a second floor common room where four people  (DW, "Barbie",DW's Lawyer and the Ferguson Lt. Colonel) were sitting. Somehow this Det. #1 did not consider it "relevant to ask" what each of their roles were
    "at the time". He was, however, surprised to see DW had already removed his duty belt (it lay on the floor), wiped and bagged his gun and washed his hands & arms. The StLC Det. briefly talked with the group but "not about the actual incident" and left.

    The four then decided DW needed to go to the hospital and DW was issued another gun by the Lt Col.

    So we should all ask why the Lt. Colonel does not appear to have testified at the GJ. Or haven interviewed by the StL police Detectives.

    We should ask why "Barbie" was neither interviewed by StLPD or ask to testify at the GJ.

    FYI: the GJ started on August 20;
           DW testified to the GJ on Sept. 16;
           DW & Barbie were married on Oct. 24;
           the dismissed GJ case against Christopher Brooks in which DW was accused of "excessive force" and Officer Barbara Spradling would have been called as a witness was on Oct. 27; and,
    the GJ announcement was Nov. 25.


    Palli (none / 0) (#142)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 04:27:27 PM EST
    We believe he did speak to the one person, Officer Spradling ("Barbie" his pregnant girl friend) who was ... also dispatching.

    That could explain the unusual nature of the dispatches and the fact that a call was attempted  outside of the acceptable channels by Wilson and whoever was at the dispatch.

    At some point, "Barbie" left to drive to the couples' home ... we believe it was at this time that she took the duty belt and placed in the couple's car. (The duty belt was not returned and put into evidence for a month.)

    Unbelievable -- I saw that in the report and was wondering how it took a month for it to show up.
    Evidence tampering -- can it get any worse???

    We should ask and keep asking why "Barbie" was neither interviewed by StLPD or asked to testify at the GJ.


    Absolutely, Uncle Chip (none / 0) (#172)
    by Palli on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 09:46:34 PM EST
    RE: those dispatch calls
    Dw's testimony Vol 5 page 277 Lines 5-12

    Asst Atty. Alizadeh: "...but being in communication, my first thought is to contact a loved one and say, I can't believe what just happened and that was my thought." If there was any sort of communication from that point moving forward on a personal cell phone or something else?"

    DW: "No."

    Asst. Atty. Alizadeh: "So none whatsoever until you saw the officer at the Ferguson Police Department?

    DW: "None"

    The jury was never informed of a romantic relationship between DW and "Barbie" or of a previous court case after her ex-husband assaulted DW in her home.

    Regarding DW's duty belt: the photograph taken before it disappeared "unnoticed" for a month shows an empty pocket with no pepper spray. Of the many questions that should be asked in a trial is: Did DW normally go on patrol without any form of non-lethal weaponry other than the baton? When Barbie was asked to get fresh clothes for DW it was a perfect opportunity to abscond with the evidence. Why was it taken?


    Dispatch Call (none / 0) (#181)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 10:52:51 PM EST
    If there was any sort of communication from that point moving forward on a personal cell phone or something else?"

    If I recall correctly it was Witness #16 Piaget Crenshaw and Witness #57 Black Canseco who both told investigators that they saw Wilson on a portable walkie talkie right after the shooting. Yet there is no record of that communication.

    And just what was Track 368 just before critical Track 369 all about:

    Dispatcher: Also when you get a moment I have a 21 message for you.

    Frank 22: Do I need to call you.

    Dispatcher: That's a 10-4.

    What was that all about??? and did that have anything to do with the 4230 Disturbance/in Progress at Canfield Drive call made at 12:01:50 that for some reason never made it into the Grand Jury Report.

    Ferguson Timeline for 8/9/14



    duty belt (none / 0) (#182)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 11:22:43 PM EST
    Why was it taken?

    It was taken so that the police union could perpetuate the lie that Brown reached for Wilson's gun.

    With no duty belt there would be no way to prove the allegation one way or the other by fingerprints, especially since Wilson had already taken it upon himself to wipe his gun clean before bagging it.

    If any of that had had Brown's incriminating fingerprints on it they would have been handled with kid gloves front and center with cameo appearances at every press conference.

    Instead we had the "there was a struggle for the gun" meme with no evidence and only Wilson's word for it that the report implied to be perjury.

    We were all fed 3.5 months of lies "from someone close to the investigation" and now they want us all to just swallow hard and Move On.

    Well it's all coming back up and now they are going to have to eat it and they don't like it.


    Uncle Chip (none / 0) (#196)
    by Palli on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 11:43:00 AM EST
    I have done none of the specific communications work you have persisted with on this case and I'm not sure who else really has. (Though we would hope the FBI.) Thank you. I find little to interweave it with our work. And that is important. I have been reading for details and, as with the Asst. Atty. question posted above, looking for ironies and "alterations" in the 3minute narrative. I feel we are all separate people writing different episodes in our own This American Life SERIAL script.

    You answer obvious questions better than I. Talkleft may be an audience just now but I hope it can all be collated & shared and more widely at some point. Thank you.


    mis-sing word from post above (none / 0) (#199)
    by Palli on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 12:34:13 PM EST
    I have little time to interweave your research with what we have. But it surely should be done, if only to defy the intent of McCullouh to bury the truth under the weight of the GJ "trial of selected evidence".

    Don't forget (none / 0) (#175)
    by Palli on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 10:03:42 PM EST
    the importance of the Lt. Colonel as the department's version of the 3 minute "incident" was fleshed out for DW during the hour or so of time before he went to the hospital. Someone smacked DW in the face too-pinkish cheek from a weak blow.

    DW tells the GJ specifically that he learned after the incident that an officer has 72 hours before he is required to make an extensive interview. DW & Barbie private phone records and emails from that period have not been an open part of the StLC Department of Crimes Against Persons investigation. Perhaps the FBI though.


    My friend was shot by a deputy (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 08:15:35 PM EST
    He had been observed driving on a suspended license, and failed to halt.

    The deputy emptied his weapon.  I counted six holes in the driver's door, both front windows were gone so I assume one or more there also, and the front tire was flat.

    None in the front of the vehicle to support a claim of self defense.  Did I mention that my friend is Black?

    Question: which do you think is more reprehensible, driving on a suspended license and being uppity, or emptying a weapon at an unarmed man who is cowering behind the inadequate shelter of a car door, in a vehicle that is not moving.


    Thank you, Repack Rider (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by Palli on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 02:11:55 PM EST
    Another name to a list too long for a nation that carries pride like a New Years' Eve paper crown.

    Have you consulted the website fatalencounters.org. Brian Burghart is attempting a gargantuan task- a comprehendsive listing of people in America who have been killed by police.
    I'm sure he will allow me to use his own words:

    "The nation's leading law enforcement agency [FBI] collects vast amounts of information on crime nationwide, but missing from this clearinghouse are statistics on where, how often, and under what circumstances police use deadly force. In fact, no one anywhere comprehensively tracks the most significant act police can do in the line of duty: take a life," according to the Las Vegas Review-Journal in its series Deadly Force (Nov. 28, 2011).

    This site is founded upon the premise that Americans should have the ability to track that act. This idea was conceived in the wake of the Oct. 6, 2012, killing of a naked, unarmed college student, Gil Collar, at the University of South Alabama. Media reports contained no context: How many people are killed by police in Alabama every year? How many in the United States?

    It turned out that Collar was on drugs, including marijuana and the hallucinogen 25-I. It also turned out the freshman never got within 5 feet of the officer, and the officer attempted no less-lethal methods to subdue Collar. On March 1, 2013, the policeman was cleared of wrongdoing.

    You can contribute by adding data about people killed by police."

    First, you can check to see if the death of your friend has already been researched in the state listings. Then you can review and/or augment the file or provide your information to place your friend in the catalogue. It is a worthy remembrance.


    RIP Former New York Gov. Mario Cuomo (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by nycstray on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 07:25:26 PM EST
    Just about to post this (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 07:32:49 PM EST
    to bad.  Didn't realize he was 82.

    The NYT obit is fascinating. (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 09:51:48 PM EST
    Mario Cuomo was interviwed for it.

    Lizard Squad Claims Role in Sony Attack (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 07:39:01 PM EST
    A Q&A with the hackers who say they helped break into Sony's network

    In an interview Friday, a person identifying himself as a Lizard Squad administrator said the group provided a number of Sony employee logins to Guardians of Peace, the organization that allegedly broke into Sony's network and prompted the film studio to initially withdraw "The Interview" from theaters.  He also shed more light on the group's membership, saying most are based in the European Union and eastern Europe and therefore aren't too worried about FBI investigations into Lizard Squad.

    i How much data are, or were, you throwing at them per second?

    i About 1.2 [terabits per second].

    I saw this too (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 07:53:49 PM EST
    and it is a fascinating thing.  For several reasons.  Very interesting he used the name Ryan Cleary.  A pretty well known name.  Not at all saying they are messing with us but it would not be a surprise if they were.   It makes sense to me also that it may have come from Eastern Europe.  You may remember I suggested that very early on.  One thing not clear is how exactly the stuff was gotten that was passed to the Guardians of Peace.  Whoever that is.   This whole thing gets more fun by the day.   Well fun if your credit information is not for sale.  
    I Just have to point out that none of this rules out NK involvement.  

    This was good (none / 0) (#61)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 07:56:46 PM EST
    What do you say to critics who say you're claiming credit for the actions of others?

    We don't really pay much attention to those critics, they're all people trying to get their 15 minutes of fame on our expense.

    Very glad he asked that question.  It's a very good question and he was smart to include it.


    Curious, who is Ryan Cleary? (none / 0) (#73)
    by ZtoA on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 11:26:17 PM EST
    Capt, these hackers are artists. Artists know how to create an illusion and how to direct attention. Artists know how people's minds work and then to change or mess with that.

    Hackers these days are the Mozarts of the instrument of the internet. Most are young. They just know how to "play" it. They do not have 'adult' motivations. They do not make money off of their art. They are Mozart (s).

    The FBI says this hack (not hacks for some - political? - reason) is 100% NK because of 'bits of code'. Just 'bits of code'? Code is, by nature, bits taken from other bits. That is how code works! That is how coders (and hackers) work. The FBI or CIA or whoever has only long strings of 'bits of code' to work from to determine authorship. And this is so not W's day - we are at least 14 years from that, and in the internet world that is probably an entire age difference.

    I am not 'against' Obama on this at all!! But I am FOR the 'starting at the beginning' (not the end and trying to 'fit' every last bit of code into some preconceived notion) also. Hacker's minds do not work like most of ours. They are artists of the internet (IMO and what I can tell from info they have allowed to be released). Their motives do not fit our ideas of what 'motives' should be. Most of these hackers are teenage boys - and most have some 'social issues'. When they send the FBI or whoever a message "You are idiots" then pls read that as coming from a mind that is just simply not like ours. We need to evolve to incorporate that - or it will 'incorporate us'. (and we could cook or prepare some nice food for them and sooth them, maybe?).


    Against my better judgment (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 08:43:40 AM EST
    a couple of things.
    I don't think anyone said anything about "100%" of anything.  It has been said NK was behind it.  That could mean many things.  It could mean their own state hackers did it but not at all necessarily.  They often work with Russian and Eastern European hackers.  For something like this I would suspect the latter and I have said so many time at this point.  Also the conclusion was not based "just on bits of code".  There was other reasons for the statements that were made.  

    I would suggest you read the two links Politix posted in this thread in comment #30.

    As for Mozart, clearly you don't know any.  I've known a couple and as far as I could tell It would be a stretch to call them Salieri.  Beauty is not really on the agenda.


    The real Mozarts were guys like Vint Cerf (none / 0) (#109)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 12:12:26 PM EST
    and Robert Kahn and Jon Postel, architects and inventors of the TCP/IP protocol that made >>>this (what you're looking at right now)<<< possible.

    I think that's right (none / 0) (#129)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 02:59:22 PM EST
    there are people doing great and beautiful things with computers.   From the ones you mention to some of the people slaving away at 14 hour days at Sony making stupid movies beautiful.  
    The hackers I've known create nothing.  The desire and admire nothing but chaos.  There are probably exceptions but the inclination generally is not to create but to destroy.  Just because they can.  It honestly rubs my rhubarb to hear them called artists.  

    Art and hacking (none / 0) (#140)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 04:24:06 PM EST
    reminded me of this story

    It's a few years old but interesting.  I know as well as anyone that the tools and methods they use could theoretically be used for good purposes and occasionally they are.  But more often it is just the opposite.  Because the most likely users are those like NK and China.  Where it's used to repress and disrupt.


    Hackers attacked change.org, a San Francisco-based Internet startup that aids online political organizing efforts, on Monday, after it began hosting a petition calling on the Chinese government to release Ai Weiwei, the dissident artist who was detained two weeks ago.

    Company executives pinpointed China -- specifically, its government -- as the original source of the sophisticated distributed denial of service, or DDoS, attack.

    The online petition, started by Richard Armstrong and Alexandra Munroe, the director and curator of Asian art, respectively, at the Guggenheim Museum in New York, has gathered more than 94,000 signatures in 12 days. It has been the fastest growing petition ever hosted by change.org, said Rattray.

    Other art-world notables supporting the petition include the directors of the Musem of Modern Art in New York, the San Francisco MoMA, the Art Institute of Chicago and the Tate, of London.

    But this could have just as easily been a (none / 0) (#176)
    by ZtoA on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 10:04:06 PM EST
    "look at me" hack - meaning to draw attention to Al's situation.

     It does not take more than "just a few people" to carry this kind of thing off and 'original IP addresses' do not mean anything. I know that from my 'computer guy' (who is a genius) after listening and watching him (remotely) take two malware programs off my simple little personal computer at the end of September. 'Original IP addresses' are no longer any real indication of anything since now it is a regular practice for 'malware' and/or 'white hat' people to mis-direct or invade, or sit in/use (or whatever it is called) some unknowing IP address. Universities that do not have the means (or the awareness) to check their IP addresses or their storage percentages (hackers use bits of storages on computers without the users knowing it) and, at least in the past, have been unwitting conduits of hacks and malware attacks.


    I will be able to get to those links soon, Capt (none / 0) (#155)
    by ZtoA on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 07:38:17 PM EST
    I don't think you understood my analogy of hackers to Mozart. The similarity, that I see, is that some people, even when very young, simply know how to communicate using an instrument, Mozart used musical instruments, hackers use internet instruments. These produce powerful communications. Of course, beauty is also powerful, but power does not always depend on beauty.

    Also, hackers, programmers, cyber security experts are in a continuum, like the rest of us. Some are not nice people, some have mental health issues (like the LulzSec kid who had asperger's).

    Here are a few snips from a site I've been reading some today. How to become a Hacker. Link.

    As an American and native English-speaker myself, I have previously been reluctant to suggest this, lest it be taken as a sort of cultural imperialism. But several native speakers of other languages have urged me to point out that English is the working language of the hacker culture and the Internet, and that you will need to know it to function in the hacker community.
    Back around 1991 I learned that many hackers who have English as a second language use it in technical discussions even when they share a birth tongue; it was reported to me at the time that English has a richer technical vocabulary than any other language and is therefore simply a better tool for the job. For similar reasons, translations of technical books written in English are often unsatisfactory (when they get done at all).

    Like most cultures without a money economy, hackerdom runs on reputation. You're trying to solve interesting problems, but how interesting they are, and whether your solutions are really good, is something that only your technical peers or superiors are normally equipped to judge.

    Specifically, hackerdom is what anthropologists call a gift culture. You gain status and reputation in it not by dominating other people, nor by being beautiful, nor by having things other people want, but rather by giving things away. Specifically, by giving away your time, your creativity, and the results of your skill.
    The hacker culture doesn't have leaders, exactly, but it does have culture heroes and tribal elders and historians and spokespeople. When you've been in the trenches long enough, you may grow into one of these. Beware: hackers distrust blatant ego in their tribal elders, so visibly reaching for this kind of fame is dangerous. Rather than striving for it, you have to sort of position yourself so it drops in your lap, and then be modest and gracious about your status.
    Train in a martial-arts form....Study an actual meditation discipline....Develop an analytical ear for music....Develop your appreciation of puns and wordplay....For true hackers, the boundaries between "play", "work", "science" and "art" all tend to disappear, or to merge into a high-level creative playfulness....

    Hackers fight with other hackers (I'm including advanced programmers and cyber experts here), and 'out' them. There are "white hat hackers" and "black hat hackers". What I can tell, is that hackers are very pro-open and free internet.

    Wiki link.  Snippets: (much more at the wiki)

    "A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and stretching their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary."

    The word "hacker" derives from the seventeenth century word of a "lusty laborer" who harvested fields by dogged and rough swings of his hoe.

    It was not until the 1960s that the term hackers began to be used to describe proficient computer programmers. Therefore, the fundamental characteristic that links all who identify themselves as hackers are ones who enjoy "...the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming and circumventing limitations of programming systems and who tries to extend their capabilities" (47).[3] With this definition in mind, it can be clear where the negative implications of the word "hacker" and the subculture of "hackers" came from.

    Before communications between computers and computer users were as networked as they are now, there were multiple independent and parallel hacker subcultures, often unaware or only partially aware of each other's existence. All of these had certain important traits in common:
    Creating software and sharing it with each other
    Placing a high value on freedom of inquiry
    Hostility to secrecy
    Information-sharing as both an ideal and a practical strategy
    Upholding the right to fork
    Emphasis on rationality
    Distaste for authority
    Playful cleverness, taking the serious humorously and the humor seriously

    Personally I don't know much about hacker cultures. I don't even know how to program. But at least I know I don't know. Assigning total blame  

    Obama said he ordered the sanctions because of "the provocative, destabilising, and repressive actions and policies of the government of North Korea, including its destructive, coercive cyber-related actions during November and December 2014".

    at this point in time is IMO, 1) not smart enough to realize how not smart we are (It may just be that the FBI does not have the smartest cyber experts around, gasp!) and 2) rather dangerous.


    From the link (none / 0) (#88)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 08:22:17 AM EST
    The administrator gave his name as "a Ryan Cleary," but further questioning revealed he was not the same Ryan Cleary who was convicted of hacking into the CIA and other agencies as part of the hacking group LulzSec.

    Another interesting recent story (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 08:12:56 PM EST
    The FBI May Have Made An Embarrassing Mistake While Investigating The Sony Hack

    The story is not about their conclusions about NK but here is the last paragraph.

    Some security experts have cast doubt on the FBI's claim that North Korea was behind the hack of Sony Pictures. If the FBI has been fooled by an online prankster, that could make its claim that North Korea ordered the hack more difficult to believe.

    None of this seems accidental.  I will be very surprised if after the holidays there is not some kind of statement from official sources about this.   They can't be happy with this situation the way it is.  Someone is going to egg on their face.  


    Wow, Mr Natural, really fascinating (none / 0) (#157)
    by ZtoA on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 08:12:41 PM EST
    Lizard Squad people could be my sons - or actually grandsons. These, and others (like IS) are the generation upcoming into running the world. They seem to want to hurt (reputation wise) some "old guy" (looks to be in his 30s) who outed some of them before. I think Brazil has a powerful hacker culture too (hackers are located somewhere, but link together and function globally - that I DO know).  

    Your link seems to support what Wired magazine posited, that there were multiple hacks - the first ones simply 'opened the door' for whoever wanted in.

    I looked at Lizard Squad Twitter feed. Listened to a youtube posted there. Capt, I think this is art. I feel like I'm in the audience at the first 'Rite of Spring' performance where the audience basically went crazy. But within a year, regular people's brains assimilated to the sounds.

    youtube link:

    "way back deep in the brain, back where there's never any pain"

    Odd, to me at least since I had a brain surgery in 2006 and I know firsthand that the brain does not experience nerve pain like most of the other parts of the body do. Of course I know he was not talking about the individual physical body, but "as above, so below".  But the brain experiences pain - just not nerve pain.  

    This youtube was very difficult for me to listen to. I can't say I understood much of it. But I felt like I was lucky to be listening to a little part of the future. Happy new year!


    BTW Mr Natural (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by ZtoA on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 09:43:17 PM EST
    thank you for your well wishes in the last thread. I saw my regular doctor (who I very much like) tonight and I know that even tho amLODIprine is well tolerated by many, I am among the few that it causes extreme reactions to. After more than 48 hours of not taking that drug I am already experiencing some nice pain relief. Hopefully soon I'll be able to walk without falling. (getting tired of all the bruises) I think that if your cat was in extreme pain you would know. Cats get very quiet and more reserved than their usual selves when they are in pain.

    Since I know I've had PTSD for decades (and my doctor does too) it may be that my compromised nervous/chemical system simply cannot 'do' what other's 'do'. He wants me to see a shrink for 'talk therapy' so that sounds OK to me. Physical pain raises BP too and I've had a lot of that (yet again) this last 8 months. My daughter (bless her) set me up with a juicer and gave me The Big Book of Juices for xmas and also a nutri-bullet. I'm getting close to no salt in my diet (will be fun to try to taste things without the help of salt). I'll try to breath deeply sometimes and will see an acupuncturist (on the staff at my hospital system), and will see in a month. End of Feb I'll have my bad hip replaced and will (hopefully) be out of pain by May or June. I'll be able to take walks in a local park again, which I used to love. Hopefully my BP will come down. Any more suggestions are so welcomed.

    He (my doctor, who is very nice and very good, and....well, very good looking - it's a treat for my eyes to see him) said that he does not think I am "crazy", but that PTSD people get anxiety reactions. I'm a sort of high amp person anyhow. I'm not in the least depressed or feeling 'down', have great relationships with my work, family and friends and profession, and myself too. I just need to calm the F&ck down! (as much as possible). I also see that other people are suffering way more than me. When I do out for a 'big outing' to go to Albertson's I always see people who I never seemed to notice before who are in really difficult physical situations, many for life. Then, since I'm going so GD slow these days, I notice those little brown birds who seem to be everywhere. I have now a pet - a stink bug who has moved into the vase by my computer where I have three stalks of 'lucky' bamboo. Having a pet, one that I do not need to take care of, has been very nice.  


    Probably most people (none / 0) (#162)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 08:28:59 PM EST
    would agree about that being art.  It's Jim Morrison and the Doors performing live in 1970.

    Final: Oregon 59, Florida State 20. (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 07:51:19 PM EST
    One word: Wow.

    The Ducks were great. (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 08:46:17 PM EST
    Oregon recovered what, five FSU fumbles? I suspect Jameis Winston's NFL draft stock took a hit tonight.

    The Ducks still have one more game to play. I may actually hold my breath from now until the end of that Jan. 12 game.


    The ducks game was great! (none / 0) (#70)
    by ZtoA on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 10:53:37 PM EST
    Every time I had to go to pee and got back, the Ducks had scored again. the NYT  has an interesting article on Florida. I think the "good guys" won tonight. And what a game.

    It's Ducks vs Buckeyes for the (none / 0) (#76)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 11:46:26 PM EST
    national championship. Ohio State beat Alabama 42-35.

    GO, DUCKS!!!


    After your studying up on (none / 0) (#80)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 03:33:44 AM EST
    football and the Ducks, I expected a more detailed review!

    ... nevertheless it was somehow oddly fitting and appropriate for the occasion:

    The Oregonian | January 1, 2015
    Oregon Ducks players taunt Jameis Winston, Florida State with 'No means no' Tomahawk chop -- "The Oregon Ducks defeated Florida State by a landslide in the Rose Bowl, blowing out the defending national champions 59-20 on Thursday. On the podium after the game, some Oregon players decided to rub it in a bit with chants of "No means no," to the sound and tomahawk chop actions of Florida State's iconic chant."

    LOL! Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.


    One last comment on the bowl games today: (none / 0) (#81)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 04:45:16 AM EST
    I have to give a shout-out to Wisconsin athletic director Barry Alvarez, who once again came out of coaching retirement to take up the reins in early December at the request of Badger players, and then boldly guided them to a memorable 34-31 overtime victory over Auburn in today's Outback Bowl in Tampa.

    In answering his players' plea for help, the 68-year-old Hall of Fame coach quickly restored stability and confidence to a team in obvious turmoil in the wake of a 59-0 shellacking by Ohio State in the Big 10 championship game, which was then followed by Head Coach Gary Anderson's unexpected and sudden departure for Oregon State the very next day.

    It was like old times seeing Coach Alvarez once again roaming the Badger sidelines and calling the shots. In the post-game press conference, he admitted to having serious reservations about doing so when first approached, and only acceded to his players' request when they came to him a second time. He said that this past month's stint as interim head coach was personally rewarding, because the team had total buy-in to his game plan and it showed in their effort today. Afterward, the Badgers had carried him off the field on their shoulders.

    Paul Chryst now officially takes over as Wisconsin's new football coach. As for Coach Alvarez, he resumes his duties as the university's athletic director.

    Hat's off to one of the classiest men in college athletics, who won his 119th game today as a head football coach, nine years to the day after he had closed out his earlier and now-legendary coaching career with a bowl victory -- coincidentally, also over Auburn.



    I too thought this was a great moment (none / 0) (#83)
    by Slado on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 06:40:27 AM EST
    Mine was for the selfish possibility that both Alabama and Auburn might lose on the same day and the reality that they would both come at the hands of Big Ten teams.   I am an SEC guy and think it is the best conference in CFB but could see how other conferences might have heard enough this year.   Sports always finds a way of making us look silly in the end to make it better this year Paul Finebaums show on the SEC Network and radio will be a classic next time it is live.

    Also the new coach for the Badgers is a "Wisconsin Man" and part of some of Alvarez great teams during his great run with the Badgers.  So expect more great RBs and great offensive lineman backed up by solid D.  He will keep the formula and his record at Pitt appears to show he knows how to coach.
    Another  sign that Alverez is just a smart guy when it comes to CFB.


    Yes, he is. (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 04:37:59 PM EST
    And further, Coach Alvarez served as no mere moral figurehead with the Wisconsin team in Tampa yesterday. When he agreed to coach the Badgers for the Outback Bowl and promised to get them both rejuvenated and ready during the several weeks prior to the game, he made significant alterations to the team's regular practice regimen and game preparations, which obviously made a huge difference in stopping the bleeding in the team's morale.

    Further, he took an active role in the play calling during yesterday's game, was constantly working the refs from the sidelines, and rolled the dice in several calculated risks on three separate fourth-down situations, each of which played out successfully and ultimately helped to secure the Badgers' triumph.

    IMHO, Alvarez's commanding yet reassuring presence as interim head coach was likely the decisive factor in that Wisconsin victory. And undoubtedly, after Gary Anderson's unexpected decision to leave the program, his players also sensed that, which is why they had asked him to step in and lead them.

    In many respects, Barry Alvarez may well have coached his finest game yesterday, because he coaxed the Badgers into believing in themselves again. And in that regard, he not only gave his team's seniors a wonderful send-off, but further offered everyone at the University of Wisconsin and elsewhere a great example of what true and inspirational leadership is really all about.



    Replay (none / 0) (#62)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 07:59:04 PM EST
    Ducks not only plowed 'em over, ... (none / 0) (#67)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 09:45:49 PM EST
    ... they left a cemetery full of tombstones planted on site in their wake.

    Final: Ohio State 42, Alabama 35. (none / 0) (#75)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 11:46:05 PM EST
    And just like that, the national championship game will be Oregon v. Ohio State. The postseason has been a disaster for the SEC.

    So the national championship (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 11:49:15 PM EST
    will be the game that, under the old system, would have been played at the Rose Bowl- the Pac 12 champion against the Big 10 champion.

    ... Ohio State and the Big Ten not being able to hang with the big boys of the SEC. Right now, I'd say that it was an overrated SEC living all season long on its own self-proclaimed pedigree that really didn't belong.

    It's interesting to note that at various points during the regular season, seven SEC teams held spots in the AP Top Ten -- Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Georgia, Texas A&M, Mississippi State and Ole Miss.

    Five of those aforementioned seven SEC teams also held down positions in the top five at one time or another. And two -- Alabama and Mississippi State -- were each ranked No.1 for significant portions of the regular season.

    Yet of these seven teams, all but two of them -- Georgia and Texas A&M -- have since been faceplanted by their respective opponents this postseason. Meanwhile, perennially underrated Boise State just won the Fiesta Bowl yesterday for the third time in seven years, this time over No. 10 Arizona.

    So. if we're really going to do a true college football playoff, then let's get rid of these stupid weekly polls, which have clearly become nothing more than vanity items and popularity contests highlighting ESPN's flavors of the week.

    Let ALL of the various conference champions enjoy an opportunity to compete for a national title, and not just those programs who can employ public relations personnel to plead their cases to pollsters, or those conferences who can negotiate a near-monopoly of the network and cable TV coverage.



    Yes, the Oregon game (none / 0) (#87)
    by fishcamp on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 07:32:53 AM EST
    was quite an amazing win, as was Ohio State.  Florida folks are unhappy about losing to Oregon, but they're very happy about the Ohio State win, since Nick Sabin is so disliked down here.  Donald your Huskies are favored by 6.5 points over Oklahoma State in the Cactus Bowl today.  Go Huskies.

    Nick Saban is disliked... (none / 0) (#99)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 10:47:45 AM EST
    everywhere outside Alabama, to my knowledge...and he might not even be too popular in 'Bama this morning.  Maybe karma is finally catching up to that fink!

    Sucks about the 'Noles...it had the makings of a great game till that butter-fingered 3rd quarter FSU meltdown.

    Now I wanna root for Oregon but don't wanna put the kdog stink on them...I'll offcially remain neutral for Casey's and ZtoA's sake;)


    kdog, you can start rooting for Oregon (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by fishcamp on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 12:36:31 PM EST
    starting right now.  I grew up on the Columbia River, hunted pheasants out where the Nike plant is, in Beaverton Oregon.  They paved over my hedgerows.  Went to grade school, and high school in Portland.  Graduated from the University of Oregon, and lived five miles from Ken Kesey, out in Springfield, Oregon.  Oh yeah, I still own 28 acres up on the McKenzie River, so you have my permission to start rooting.  :-)

    Don't know who (none / 0) (#114)
    by Zorba on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 12:59:12 PM EST
    Kdog is going to root for, but I'll have to root for Ohio State.
    I've been to Oregon, once, the Oregon coast.  Which, BTW, we loved.
    But I'm basically a Midwestern gal, I've been to Ohio many, many times, and one of my oldest and best friends lives there now, and several other good friends.
    Plus one of my brothers got a graduate degree at Ohio State, and taught there for awhile.
    Sorry, fish!  My ties to Ohio run deeper than any ties to Oregon.

    I did something new this New Year... (5.00 / 3) (#128)
    by vml68 on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 02:56:18 PM EST
    I watched a football game for the first time in my life. Not, because I have taken a sudden interest in the game but because my husband was at the Sugar Bowl with some clients and I thought I might see him on TV!

    I took some classes at OSU but did not graduate from there and lived in Columbus for a few years, so was happy to see OSU win. I now know what a touchdown is and think I have a "turnover" figured out. The rest of the game is still greek to me!


    Forgot to add... (5.00 / 4) (#130)
    by vml68 on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 03:00:13 PM EST
    Happy New Year to all of you at TL.

    Gladly trade you my Lee County FL (none / 0) (#116)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    acreage for your OR acres.

    Sarc, the Feds do want me out of (none / 0) (#118)
    by fishcamp on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 01:24:01 PM EST
    their White River Natl. Forest, where my grandparents homesteaded one section of land, long before National Forests were established.  They have managed to whittle 640 acres down to 28, by a variety of ways.  They contact me periodically with a land exchange idea, like Cottage Grove, Oregon.  But I'm holding out for an acre or two over on Maui.  They never seem to answer that request.  Maybe we could bundle your land with mine for an exchange and really confuse them.  Of course, we would automatically be put on yet one more NSA list.

    I have a cousin who lives in CG (none / 0) (#119)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 01:31:54 PM EST
    and she says it's a pretty good place.  But if it isn't a fair exchange in your eyes, then you shouldn't do.

    Yes, you are right Mordi, (none / 0) (#121)
    by fishcamp on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 01:48:37 PM EST
    Cottage Grove is nice, and I did look at the parcel they offered, but I'm still holding out for Maui.  They could do it if they wanted to...ha.

    Like Ken Kesey's patriarch said, (none / 0) (#124)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 01:53:43 PM EST
    "Never give an inch."

    Ha! No more gvt lists for me! (none / 0) (#122)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 01:49:03 PM EST
    Oregon is favored by seven points (none / 0) (#127)
    by fishcamp on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 02:22:11 PM EST
    over Ohio State, at 8:30 Eastern time, Jan. 12th, in Arlington, Texas, at the AT&T stadium, for the National Championships.  GO DUCKS

    Go, Buckeyes! (none / 0) (#133)
    by Zorba on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 03:14:32 PM EST
    Sorry, fishcamp.  Sort of.    ;-)

    I doubt it. (none / 0) (#131)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 03:13:27 PM EST
    kdog: "[Nick Saban] might not even be too popular in 'Bama this morning.  Maybe karma is finally catching up to that fink!"

    I'm certainly no fan of Coach Saban and Alabama, but the Crimson Tide finished this season at 11-2, and have won at least ten games in each of their past seven seasons. 'Bama fans are fools if they believe that they enjoy some sort of birthright to expectations any higher than that.

    If they're even tempted to call for Saban's head, they need only remember the fate which subsequent befell the Alabama football program when these same overly demanding rectal cavities drove the very competent Dennis Franchione from Tuscaloosa following the 2002 season.

    Now, Franchione was never fired by Alabama. Rather, after having endured several seasons of constant sniper fire from the Tide's malevolent peanut galler-- I mean, the UA alumni association, he simply bolted for Texas A&M, effectively giving 'Bama fans the middle finger salute as he walked out the door.

    Alabama then hired the popular but ultimately hapless Mike Price away from Washington State, after he had led the Cougars to their first Pac-10 titles and Rose Bowl appearances in nearly seven decades. Price lasted all of four months as the Tide's head coach, before being fired in May 2003 for "moral turpitude" after he was caught on camera in a Florida strip club with a face full of -- well, TL being a family-friendly site and all, I'll leave the end of that sentence to your own imagination.

    University officials then hastily signed the equally luckless Mike Shula away from the NFL Tampa Bay Buccaneers, who got them off to a 2-0 start in the 2003 season and a No. 21 ranking in the AP poll before being upset at home by Northern Illinois. It only got worse from there for the Crimson Tide with a series of close defeats in SEC play, including a 28-23 heartbreaker at the hands of archrival Auburn in the SEC finale.

    The Tide closed out their dismal 2003 campaign the following week with a resounding thud out here in Honolulu, playing like they were literally on vacation in an embarrassingly one-sided defeat at the hands of Hawaii -- a game which was broadcast by ESPN on prime-time national TV, no less.

    Now, THAT'S karma! Lessons learned, Shula was eventually let go after two more years of floundering in the wilderness, and Nick Saban was hired away from LSU. And like him or not, he's simply an outstanding coach.



    Correction to your historical knowledge (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 06:49:06 PM EST
    Saban was not hired away from LSU by Alabama.

    You're absolutely right. (none / 0) (#174)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 09:58:31 PM EST
    Alabama hired Saban away from the NFL Miami Dolphins in early January 2007. He was at LSU when the Dolphins snagged him after the 2004 season. I totally forgot about his two-year stint in the NFL. Thanks for pointing that out.

    Yep, that's the main reason (none / 0) (#185)
    by fishcamp on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 06:29:45 AM EST
    Florida folks dislike Sabin so much.  He left the Dolphins for selfish reasons.  Plus I can't stand his quirky smile and continual shoulder shrug.  He also looks off to the right all the time, while talking.  Signs of a liar.

    Same Sex Marriage in Florida starting Tuesday? (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 08:44:14 PM EST
    On the first day of the New Year, a federal judge issued a landmark ruling that finally cleared the way for same-sex marriage in every county in Florida.

    U.S. District Judge Robert L. Hinkle ruled that all Florida clerks are bound by the U.S. Constitution not to enforce Florida's gay marriage ban and that any couple seeking a license should receive one.

    Barring any other court proceedings in the interim, licenses can be issued beginning 12:01 a.m. Tuesday.

    In five northern Florida counties (5.00 / 4) (#173)
    by Peter G on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 09:49:19 PM EST
    they would apparently rather stop performing any secular marriages at all than permit marriage equality. I am reminded of how Jackson, Mississippi, in 1963 closed all its public swimming pools rather than comply with a court order to desegregate (15 years after it was clear they had to, by the way).  The Supreme Court upheld that cowardly and dishonest action by a 5-4 vote in 1971.

    Yep, that's the edge of the (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by fishcamp on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 06:32:44 AM EST
    Bible Belt

    Orson Welles (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 09:07:28 AM EST
    Fountain of Youth


    Orson Welles wrote, starred in, directed, art directed and even produced the music for "The Fountain of Youth," an ingeniously devised and wryly funny half-hour that was made as a television pilot for an ill-fated anthology show that Welles developed for Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz's Desilu production company. Imagine a Twilight Zone or Alfred Hitchcock Presents, but with Orson Welles in the auteur/narrator's role. The pilot was shot in 1956, but the The Orson Welles Show never happened. It ultimately aired on NBC's Colgate Theater in 1958.

    Although the director, notorious for going over budget did go a little bit over budget on the pilot for The Orson Welles Show, he didn't go too crazy, as Arnaz had told him the show was being produced with his own "`Babalu' money."  The show won Welles and NBC's Colgate Theater a Peabody Award in 1958. Look for a cameo appearance by Nancy Kulp, better known as "Mrs. Hathaway," the shrewish secretary on The Beverly Hillbillies.

    This time I linked to YouTube.  The story is from DangerousMinds

    That's Vassar grad MISS Jane Hathaway ... (5.00 / 2) (#160)
    by unitron on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 08:24:22 PM EST
    ...to the likes of you lot. : - )

    She was not "shrewish", and just calling her a secretary hardly does her position justice.

    She was really more like an executive assistant* (with, as I recall, at least one secretary of her own).

    In other Beverly Hillbillies news, Donna Douglas, Elly May Clampett on the show, passed away today at 81.

    *and saver of Milton Drysdale's bacon on a regular basis.


    Honestly, the things you see on your (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by Anne on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 03:14:19 PM EST
    Facebook sidebar...

    I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this one, but so far, I seem to just be laughing:

    A man and a woman thought they were trapped in a Daytona State College closet for two days until police let them out Tuesday - and found out the two could have opened the door themselves.

    John Arwood, 31, and Amber Campbell, 25, claimed they were chased into the closet on Sunday, Daytona Beach police said.

    After two days in a Marine and Environmental Science Center janitor's closet, where police found human feces and copper scouring pads sometimes used to smoke crack, Arwood called 911 from his cell phone, police said.

    Officers tracked his phone's location and let him and Campbell out. It's unclear why Arwood didn't call 911 until Tuesday.

    A police officer, trying to figure out how the two could have gotten locked in, went into the closet and closed the door, police said. The door did not lock.

    No drugs were found.

    But see what I mean?  I know you're laughing, too!

    I think the woman's neck tat probably (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Anne on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 03:18:15 PM EST
    Of course no drugs were found... (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by unitron on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 08:30:06 PM EST
    ...they obviously had already consumed them all. : - )

    You laugh (none / 0) (#164)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 08:32:51 PM EST
    but what about that babysitter in the Amityville house who was stuck for hours in a closet with no locks??  Huh?
    Can you prove a demon was not holding the door to keep them in there? No.  You can't.

    Foot, meet bullet... (5.00 / 2) (#180)
    by unitron on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 10:40:19 PM EST
    Fox may have overreached in trying to leverage what they think is their considerable popularity in order to extract as much money as possible for the "package deal" of their more in demand and less in demand channels, as Dish TV tries to pay as little as possible for the same in order to avoid driving away subscribers by having to increase prices, but the real ideology here, on the part of both parties, is "make as large a profit as possible".

    They're all in business to make money, and any political involvement is in service to that end.

    That part where each vilifies the other as the worst thing to happen to television consumers since the real, original Farnsworth (Philo T.) got the idea for a scanned raster from the field that he was plowing back in '21 is just standard business posturing and positioning BS.

    Fox pricing itself off of Dish, for now, may be driving its ratings down, but that, and other programming interruptions caused by the provider-carrier negotiations dance, are driving subscribers away from Dish, so maybe Fox will pick up those viewers again when said viewers find another content delivery deliverer that they prefer who still has the pricing from a previous contract in place (for now).

    The risk to the carriers (and maybe even to the content providers' currently ongoing attempts to milk as much money as possible out of the customers and carriers)is consumers dumping satellite and cable television and going with Over The Air, augmented by over the internet.

    In that scenario the cable companies probably have better survival prospects by concentrating on being Internet Service Providers.

    But in the end it's all about supply and demand.

    You can leverage demand for content to squeeze more money out of carriers and consumers right up to the point where consumers decide that it's more than they want to spend, or that they're tired of the periodic service disruptions during negotiations, or both, but you have to be careful not to cross that line, or it's "screw it, I'll put up an antenna and go with Netflix, and maybe even watch less and read more".

    Nice well written comment (none / 0) (#194)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 11:03:46 AM EST
    And I think you make a good point

    "...consumers dumping satellite and cable television and going with Over The Air, augmented by over the internet.

    In that scenario the cable companies probably have better survival prospects by concentrating on being Internet Service Providers.

    There's a secondary issue, or maybe I should write "issues." Land line phone service has survived by bundling local voice, long distance, and internet. The prices have went up while the internet speeds have remained the same.

    Wireless pricing has plateaued and will probably drop. Cable TV pricing has increased slightly but Internet access has dropped while speed has increased.

    Land line phone service is on the way out.


    The last gay bar in the Tenderloin (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 09:20:11 AM EST

    San Francisco has changed both rapidly and radically over recent years. As it's become more appealing both for cosmopolitan urbanites and the exploding tech sector, gentrification has blessed The City by the Bay with the most expensive one-bedroom apartment in America, even surpassing New York. Many mourn the loss of an earlier San Francisco and its formerly affordable counterculture and queer subculture, while San Francisco documentary photographer and filmmaker James Hosking manages to actually catch some of the twilight.

    It is certainly not the San Francisco (5.00 / 3) (#198)
    by caseyOR on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 12:21:02 PM EST
    in which I once lived. The days of young lesbians and gay men flocking to The City from towns small and large all over the country are over. It is just too expensive a place to live now.

    One of the great things about San Francisco was its mix of cultures and classes. The LGBT community side-by-side with the Latino community. The Chinese community in ChinaTown, and later in the Richmond, the Italians in North Beach. The down and out in the Tenderloin and the wealthy in Pacific Heights. And great affordable food in every neighborhood.

    The physical smallness of San Francisco forced everyone to cross paths with everyone else. It made for a vibrant and exciting city.

    Now, only the very wealthy can afford to live there. It has become a rich person ghetto. So sad.


    And not even that long ago (5.00 / 3) (#200)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 12:36:52 PM EST
    a friend had an 11 room apt in The early 90s.  850.  Very sad.

    Same time period as when I (5.00 / 3) (#202)
    by caseyOR on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 12:44:24 PM EST
    lived there. My apartment wasn't 11 rooms, but it was huge. Easily the biggest apartment I have ever lived in. And I had a garage. And a working fireplace. All for $900 a month.

    A very Happy and Healthy 2015... (none / 0) (#19)
    by unitron on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 03:28:01 AM EST
    ...to each and all.

    And many happy arguments to come.

    Happy New Year, everyone (none / 0) (#21)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 07:07:18 AM EST
    To quote Prof Farnsworth from Futurama: Good news, everyone.

    Fox News ratings are down, thanks to a stupid disagreement
    with the Dish network.

    Dish Television dropped both Fox News and the Fox Business Network on Dec. 21, citing an impasse in negotiations with the Fox, claiming the network is leveraging its most popular programming in order to extort higher fees for less desirable channels.

    In a public relations battle with Dish, Fox set up a Facebook page allowing their loyal viewers to vent at the satellite provider, while encouraging them to drop their Dish subscriptions.

    Dish Network CEO Charlie Ergen recently issued a video response to Fox, decrying their tactics and calling it "extortion."

    "Ironically, Fox News would be the first network to decry this kind of deal-making," Ergen said. "There's nothing about this extortion attempt that was fair or balanced."

    Looks like they are dropping more than Fox (none / 0) (#25)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 08:53:55 AM EST
    Furious Dish Network, Inc., customers are dropping the service, ... for themselves - Dish has blocked more than 10 channels in the last six ...
    Dish, Fox News Feud Again Illustrates How The Cable TV Ind

    They also dropped CNN back in October. Don't know if they have reached an agreement with them or not.

    So this isn't about politics.... it is about...

    can you believe it???  Money.


    You're going to see more of this as customers push for a cafeteria type selection rather than the multiple tiers.


    Looks like they are dropping more than Fox (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 08:53:55 AM EST
    Furious Dish Network, Inc., customers are dropping the service, ... for themselves - Dish has blocked more than 10 channels in the last six ...
    Dish, Fox News Feud Again Illustrates How The Cable TV Ind

    They also dropped CNN back in October. Don't know if they have reached an agreement with them or not.

    So this isn't about politics.... it is about...

    can you believe it???  Money.


    You're going to see more of this as customers push for a cafeteria type selection rather than the multiple tiers.


    They have had CNN back for a while (none / 0) (#53)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 06:19:07 PM EST
    And I believe the technical term for this strategy by the owners of Fox News is foot-bullet.

    Can't leave it alone, eh?? (none / 0) (#94)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 09:13:32 AM EST
    It is called "negotiation."

    All of the carriers, cable and satellite, are facing price pressure from the consumer.

    The content providers want to sell bundles because that way they can keep channels on the air that aren't supporting themselves. It's called cross subsidization and allows a content provider to experiment without having to risk substantial capital.

    Years and years ago I attended a cable company convention in which, I think, John Malone, then CEO of TCI, chided the industry for concentrating to much on technical issues and not enough on content. Content would be the limiting issue he opined. I think he was right. There appears to be not enough content to take advantage of what the engineers have given them.


    Well, perhaps Fox can use your (none / 0) (#108)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 12:03:34 PM EST
    unique skills to negotiate a settlement between the two parties.

    Here's the case against paying for every channel that you want:

    If you spend less, you will get less
    A la carte does make it possible to lower your bill, but doing so will require going without. It's easy to lower your bill at a fancy steakhouse -- simply substitute chicken for steak and water for wine -- but the savings come at a price. Because some people are going to opt out of each channel, the a la carte price for each station will be higher than the price paid under the current carriage fee system. That means that paying what you pay now and keeping the same amount of service will be impossible.  

    In order to pay less, you will likely have to choose a much smaller package of channels. That's fine if you only watch a very limited amount of programming, but in most cases, having a lower bill will mean going without.

    Chances are many will spend more
    A single person with focused interests might be able to pick and choose channels in an a la carte world in order to save money but families are the true beneficiaries of the current package system. Multiple people of varying ages will likely have varying interests and that would require buying more channels to meet those needs.

    "All these things are so much more expensive when you separate them out," David Bank, an analyst at RBC Capital Markets told The Wall Street Journal. "You are going to have to pay more for less choice."

    Timothy Lee explained the likely result in The Washington Post's WonkBlog:

    It's true that cable companies pay per-subscriber fees to content providers like Disney and Fox. In principle, an a la carte model would reduce those fees. But that creates a new problem. Disney (NYSE: DIS  ) and FOX (NASDAQ: FOX  ) also spread the costs of producing their content across a broad base of consumers. If an a la carte regime allowed millions of users to opt out of their channels, content companies would likely jack up per-customer fees in order to recoup the lost revenue.

    He sees that leading to a system where, at best, people pay the same amount for dramatically less channels. It is possible that competition for viewers keeps the channels from raising fees too high but that leads to the next problem.

    Anyhoo, I apologize for having a different opinion than yours.


    Once we no longer have to pay for... (none / 0) (#170)
    by unitron on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 09:43:01 PM EST
    ...ESPN (that's just the one main ESPN channel, at $5 to $7 per month, not all of them), there'll be money left over to cover 2 or 3 others just from that. So that's SyFy, USA, and TNT sorted.

    Unfortunately, however, a la carte will mean having to give up analog (though TWC keeps whittling down the number of channels in that tier while increasing the price) and going to digital.

    That means the end of almost all of the usefulness of my Series 2 TiVos, and having to get and pay rent on cable cards for all of my Series 3 TiVos, not to mention having to have (and have shelf space and another electrical outlet for)a Tuning Adapter for each one, because you know that Time Warner (or perhaps, by then, whatever they call the unholy pairing of Comcast and TW) will want to make what I want to watch/record only available via Switched Digital Video.

    Also I'll need a lamp timer on each TA to turn it off often enough for long enough to prevent it from doing whatever it does that interferes with the TiVo successfully completing Garbage Collection.


    I believe Mr. Springsteen... (none / 0) (#153)
    by unitron on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 06:41:56 PM EST
    "There appears to be not enough content to take advantage of what the engineers have given them."

    addressed this issue some years back.


    CO to court about pot (none / 0) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 08:51:28 AM EST
    just heard that Nebraska and Oklahoma are taking CO to court because they say pot is coming across their borders into their states.  
    One interesting thing about it seemed to me to be that the complaint contains no stats, more arrests more accidents or whatever, to back up their claim.  It appears the want it declared unconstitutional because they don't like it.
    I would love to hear what some lawyer folks think about the chances of this getting any traction.

    And if it does why couldn't states with gun control laws use the same argument.  And haven't they tried?  Seems to me i remember similar gun lawsuits that obviously got nowhere.  But I could be wrong and it's to early for a deep Google.

    Constitutional law experts on the Right (5.00 / 4) (#43)
    by Peter G on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 04:00:03 PM EST
    think that that the Nebraska/Oklahoma lawsuit (technically, an application for leave to file a lawsuit; they need the Supreme Court's permission even to get to first base) is weak at best. I would have to imagine that liberal analysts agree, as I do (without claiming expert status on this issue, however), but I haven't found any links to prove it.

    And here you go, for a similar perspective (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by Peter G on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 08:36:01 PM EST
    from the liberal side of the legal spectrum.

    Ha (none / 0) (#166)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 08:46:08 PM EST
    federalist rolling papers.   Awsum.

    Yeah.  I'm no lawyer but I made no sense to me.  It would seem to open a monumental can of worms.


    Oops (none / 0) (#167)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 08:53:02 PM EST
    posted to soon.  This is exactly what I thought-

    Should they succeed, their case could lead to epic battles among the states over regulation of guns and pollution--and give Congress unprecedented power.

    Which would seem to me why it will never happen


    Thanks Peter (none / 0) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 04:22:50 PM EST
    that seemed to be my impression as well.

    Doing more than just fix emergencies (none / 0) (#28)
    by Politalkix on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 09:48:27 AM EST
    setting a longer term vision....

    The full transcript of the NPR interview with the President. It is long but worth the read IMO. Even for those that disagree with him on many issues, it explains where he is coming from and what are going to be his priorities during the remaining two years of his Presidency.

    I have been binge watching (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 11:05:21 AM EST
    Breaking Bad for a couple of days.

    Wow.  What a piece of work.  The interesting thing is how differently i feel about the characters knowning the whole story and how it ends.

    Amazing writing.  Getting us to watch and love a bunch of really pretty despicable characters.  

    TV for the history books and sociologists of the future.

    Does anyone watch "The Comeback"? (none / 0) (#37)
    by lentinel on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 01:18:29 PM EST
    It is a short series on HBO starring Lisa Kudrow.

    The last episode of this season just aired - and Lisa Kudrow does some of the best and most touching acting I've ever seen.

    I've seen the show (none / 0) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 09:31:26 PM EST
    but I no have HBO right now.  I love her.  Web Therapy is great.  

    There are all these end of the year marathons.  I spent two days watching Breaking Bad which continues on Monday interrupted by a Walking Dead marathon.  And today I've been recording and rewatching Fargo on FX.


    Getting ready to watch the last (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Anne on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 10:46:31 PM EST
    episode of The Wire...wow, what a show.

    The Wire was such a fabulous program. (none / 0) (#71)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 10:58:28 PM EST
    Every season was engrossing, but my favorites are season 2, which was about the docks and the stevedores union, and season 4 , which centered on the Baltimore public schools.

    Really, it was some of the best TV I have ever seen.


    Season 4 was heartbreaking; actually (none / 0) (#135)
    by Anne on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 03:22:47 PM EST
    there was a lot that broke my heart watching that show.  With the kids, it was almost like you knew that the ones with the sweetest faces were the ones likely to come to the worst end.

    I must say, though, that if I never heard "Snoop's" voice again, I'd be okay with it - it just made my teeth ache to listen to her talk.


    Pope issues call to protect the environment (none / 0) (#44)
    by Politalkix on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 04:02:49 PM EST
    Pope Francis is asking people to protect the environment. link

    Protect the poor, protect the sick, protect the environment!

    An encyclical, I understand. (none / 0) (#54)
    by christinep on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 06:26:47 PM EST
    The issuance of a solemn encyclical amounts to much more than a speech because that strong form of statement is about as strong a position as a Pope can take on this pressing environmental (and, moral) concern.

    Happy New Year (none / 0) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 04:57:10 PM EST
    Posted on FB today (none / 0) (#47)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 05:18:26 PM EST
    Well, yes, I think we knew this (none / 0) (#48)
    by Zorba on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 06:00:12 PM EST
    But the really unfortunate thing is that, while Sony may be paying for the credit monitoring of current employees, they are being sued by former employees who say they have had their S.S. numbers and other data hacked.  At least as of now, Sony does not seem to be paying for their credit monitoring.

    No idea what the policy is (none / 0) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 06:02:59 PM EST
    but they are paying for the person that posted that.  I asked him.  

    That link is a couple of weeks old (none / 0) (#50)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 06:07:52 PM EST
    i expect they have changed that policy.  But as I said I only know for sure about that person because that is the only one I have discussed it with.   But I don't see any reason for him to get special treatment.  He only worked on one project there for a few months.

    And about us knowing this, I'm pretty sure I've seen it said here that this was not an attack on "our country" but an attack on "a corporation".  Wallace would probably disagree.


    Btw (none / 0) (#51)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 01, 2015 at 06:13:45 PM EST
    he has been retired for over a year.

    FBI investigating whether US banks (none / 0) (#100)
    by Politalkix on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 11:11:39 AM EST
    link are launching cyber attacks on their own.

    Should the police have used this tactic (none / 0) (#104)
    by McBain on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 11:45:37 AM EST
    on Tamir Rice?

    Sounds like this (bean bag gun) was a successful, non lethal tactic. It wouldn't have been appropriate in the Mike Brown or Eric Garner situations but maybe for Tamir Rice?

    Tamir Rice was shot (5.00 / 5) (#161)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 08:27:57 PM EST
    ...in an open carry state.  It would have been legal for an adult to be there with a real weapon.  So what assumption did the police make on pulling up?  That he was a kid, therefore not entitled to carry, and must be shot on sight?

    In Ohio the presence of a weapon is not a crime, thanks to the NRA.  Why didn't the police determine whether he was acting in a legal fashion before shooting him?

    The kid shot in the Walmart carrying a toy gun was also in Ohio.  Once again, if it was legal for him to possess a real firearm, why shoot him just to see if he might have been breaking the law?  Seems like the harshest possible means of making an inquiry.


    I'm not a gun person or an expert in Ohio law (2.00 / 4) (#183)
    by McBain on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 11:53:14 PM EST
    but I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to point a  gun at people who aren't threatening you.

    The police were called because Rice was "scaring the bleep" out of people in that park. No one but Rice new for sure if it was a real gun, toy gun, or pellet gun.

    Perhaps, the police made mistakes in their handing of the situation but Rice, even at age 12, should have known better to point his gun at people.      


    It does not take an expert. (5.00 / 5) (#189)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 07:32:17 AM EST
    To realize that the cops should not be judge,jury and executioner. The "pointing' of guns was only alleged by 911 calls. The cops in these cases used partial second hand reports as justification for the immediate use of lethal force. The videos show that they took virtually zero time to assess the situation on their own.

    Perhaps they made a mistake? A 12 year old should know better?. It's a pretty bad "mistake" when you have innocents shot dead and the cops should "know better" then to go in with guns a'blazing.


    fwiw, "The kid shot in the Walmart... (none / 0) (#178)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 10:15:56 PM EST
    ...carrying a toy gun" was 22 y/o, and was himself the father of two kids.

    The killing is obscene enough, no "dramatic license" is necessary.


    You're right (5.00 / 3) (#179)
    by sj on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 10:39:09 PM EST
    Having said that, from my perspective these days 22 is indeed a kid. Just sayin'.

    I'm 69 y.o. (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 12:43:33 PM EST
    22 y.o. is a kid to me.  Sorry if my choice of non pejorative nouns offends anyone more than the "kid" being shot.

    Worst movies of 2014 (none / 0) (#107)
    by McBain on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 11:59:45 AM EST

    I disagree about Nymphomaniac but agree about the recent Hunger Games.  

    I didn't see the Michael Bay or Adam Sandler movies but, given their track record, I'll assume the author was correct in adding them to the list.

    I couldn't make that site (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 03:27:11 PM EST
    move off Dumb and Dumber.  Which I would not argue with.   But I didn't try that hard.  I hate those "10 or 20 worst or best whatever". That make you load a new page for every single one.  I usually never get to #2.
    But there are list like that everywhere and they always make me laugh because inevitably there will be one or two of my favorite films of the year.
    It would be a strange job to do nothing but pass judgement on the work of others.

    CNN is doing a special on Roger Ebert (none / 0) (#141)
    by McBain on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 04:25:14 PM EST
    this Sunday.  I preferred Siskel but Ebert had a few hilarious reviews.  This one on Michael Bay's "Armageddon" is one his best...

    "The movie is an assault on the eyes, the ears, the brain, common sense, and the human desire to be entertained. No matter what they're charging to get in, it's worth more to get out."


    IMO Ebert (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 04:31:28 PM EST
    was one of the good ones.  He genuinely loved film and was interested in constructive criticism.  Well mostly.  He could also be very funny.  Champaign IL is home of EbertFest.  they do it every year.
    It is one of the few good things about that godforsaken pitifully flat place.  Ebert was from Urbana.

    More on movies (none / 0) (#145)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 05:04:48 PM EST
    That looks like fun. (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 05:56:10 PM EST
    Let's send him a few more suggestions:

    • "Apocalypse Ow!"

    • "How Green Was My Alley"

    • "One With the Wind"

    • "The Roe"

    • "Olive!"

    • "A*S*H"

    Star Wars (none / 0) (#190)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 09:03:07 AM EST
    A New Hoe. Was not what I expected while waiting for the images to load.

    May I brag?? (none / 0) (#158)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jan 02, 2015 at 08:15:00 PM EST
    Tennessee Volunteers 45 - Iowa 28... and the last 14 points for Iowa was during trash time....

    And I am glad to have upheld the SEC's honor after the SEC West responded so miserably.

    No doubt but what they stayed up too late reading their own press clippings.

    But FSU got what they deserved. Everyone has known all year they were not as advertised.

    And for good measure, here's a happy football story about a nice guy.

    Ricky Jim (none / 0) (#188)
    by Uncle Chip on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 07:04:41 AM EST
    There is something you could help me with here.

    For months we were told that there were atleast 8 witnesses who corroborated Wilson's story.

    Could you tell us just who those 8 witnesses are???

    Other than nutcase Witness 40 and nowhere near the place Witness 10 I can't seem to find any of them in the GJ report.

    Been reading about this (none / 0) (#192)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 09:38:49 AM EST
    A new billboard which advertises "whiteprideradio.com" leased by the Knights Party of Zinc, formerly the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan has reignited racial tensions in the city of Harrison, Arkansas.

    I was recently surprised to learn, thanks to a "hate map" provided by the SCLC(I think) that Harrison has the highest concentration of organized hate groups in the state.  By a lot.  It's a lovely place.  Not that far from here.  On the most beautiful parts of the state.  
    This is a cancer.  Sadly the election of a black president and the ensuing avalanche of hate and ignorance seems to have helped it grow.  The FOX, Beck, Limbaugh cesspool of media has made them think this kind of thing, a billboard, is acceptable.  It's very sad.

    Oops (none / 0) (#193)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 10:03:32 AM EST
    No I'm not (none / 0) (#195)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 11:20:20 AM EST
    My point is that Johnson claimed Wilson choked Brown yet the ME found no evidence.

    You want to claim he just grabbed the shirt.

    The realty is as the GJ proceedings, which I have quoted, is before your eyes.

    What this proves is that Johnson either deliberately lied to "guild the lily" that Wilson is an evil person attacking two sweet innocent boys....or he actually believes what he said based on his failed memory.

    Eye witness information has been proven wrong so many times that without supporting evidence it is hard to believe.

    Why you want to make this an issue, since the evidence is so complete, I do not know unless you recognize that the GJ members also saw this and it  impeached Johnson's credibility.

    You keep making the same false claim (none / 0) (#204)
    by Yman on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 02:45:12 PM EST
    Johnson never said Wilson "choked" him - those are your false words.  Johnson said he grabbed him by his shirt and in the neck area, which is the part you keep omitting/lying about.

    I wonder why you always do that ...


    Gesh (none / 0) (#207)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 03:25:45 PM EST
    The officer grabbed, 24 he grabbed ahold of Big Mike's shirt around the neck25 area.

    So did he grab his neck or his shirt2 around the neck area?

    3 A It was more of both because he had a real 4 good grip on him.

    5 Was there any warning, did he just stuck 6 his hand out and grab, does he say something, did he 7 say anything?

    8 A No, ma'am, at this time when the door had
    9 closed back on him, he didn't say anything. His arm 10 almost in an instant came out the window, his left ll arm, I remember it was his left arm, came out the12 window and touched Big Mike around his neck area and 13 his throat. I watched his hands, you know, they 14 really tightened up, so yeah, he had a good grip on 15 it, that what's I saw first.

    Let me see... I put my hands around someone's throat and tighten them up... Nope that's not choking... no way .... nada...LOL

    Sarcasm obvious.

    Deny, sputter, whatever... all you want. We have Johnson's testimony.


    This thread is now closed (none / 0) (#205)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Jan 03, 2015 at 02:48:13 PM EST
    No more comments here please. A new open thread is up. Please refrain from blogclogging and personal attacks. Those comments will be deleted. Comments are not a place for debate between two commenters.