Pre Thanksgiving Open Thread

TalkLeft wishes you all a Happy Thanksgiving. Don't forget to check in with your local radio station to find out what time they will play Alice's Restaurant. It was November 28, 1965 that Arlo was convicted of littering in Stockbridge, MA. You can read the backstory here.

I will be busy setting up my new Desktop computer. I spent 8 hours Sunday reading up on every feature of every Dell and HP, I ended up with a great deal on a very powerful Dell. Of course, now comes the agony of transferring stuff over and hoping it works. I used a program last time and it caused a lot of problems, so this year I will do it by hand. My 2 GB hard drive is filled on the old one, and windows installer hasn't worked in year and a half --which means I haven't been able to add or remove any programs. Black Friday is definitely the day to do swap it out.

It's also that time of year to ask those of you who appreciate TalkLeft to send us a little thanks, via paypal or snailmail

I'll be back to normal schedule next week, my last day of an 8 day court run was today.

Have a wonderful Thanksgiving, everyone. This is an open thread, all topics welcome. (Alice's Restaurant is below.)[More...]

< More National Guardsmen Called to Ferguson | Friday Open Thread >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Display: Sort:
    I hope (5.00 / 10) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 10:49:33 AM EST
    everyone here has a wonderful Thanksgiving.

    Back at cha! (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 11:22:52 AM EST
    Went to purchase a turkey and prime rib was $7.99 lb.  We are coloring outside all the lines now.  No sweets at dinner either.

    We are (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 11:26:45 AM EST
    having dinner today at my sisters house.  The EMTs have to work tomorrow.

    Happy turkey day to everyone.


    People still get sick, have accidents 365/7/24 (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 11:35:38 AM EST
    so somebody has to be out there.  Thanks for being one of them.

    Oh, and we're having slow-cooked turkey, 250 degrees for 15 hours. The veggie is asparagus. No stuffing, no casserole, but we'll have pumpkin pie with the traditional ReddiWhip topping, and one Dutch Apple pie, served with Cookies and Cream ice cream.


    Prime rib (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 01:59:29 PM EST
    here has been going for $6.49 during the holidays at Publix for the past several years. Turkeys were sold out all over the place this year until apparently they got a shipment last week. I was wondering if I was going to have to pay $2.69 a pound for turkey instead of less than $1.00 I usually pay. Okay. Found them at Target for 0.69 and then got my 5% discount for using my red card.  We are having pumpkin pie and pecan pie. I really should not have done the pecan but oh, well, I haven't made it in literally years. :)

    I have given up on (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 08:31:50 PM EST
    Trying to tempt husband and son with sweets.  They just aren't interested.  That leaves me alone to eat them or throw them out.  I have given up :)

    I don't blame you. (none / 0) (#36)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 07:20:59 AM EST
    If no one else at my house enjoyed them I sure wouldn't make them unless I had extended family coming that did.

    Lobster (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Yman on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 03:08:46 PM EST
    We're doing a traditional Thanksgiving meal at my parents tomorrow, but a second one on Saturday.  Lobster is $4.99/lb, sooooo ....

    We're doing a lobster pasta dish, something (5.00 / 5) (#18)
    by Angel on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 05:22:17 PM EST
    Mr. Angel started about 15 years ago and has since become a tradition in our family.  I'll make a nice salad to go with it, we'll drink a rose champagne and have apple pie for dessert.  No shopping for us this weekend, planning to stay home and have a Netflix marathon!

    Grateful for the love of family and friends, including those here at TL.  Hope everyone has a safe and enjoyable holiday.


    Oh yeah (none / 0) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 08:33:23 PM EST
    I would do lobster

    We really have lots of lobster (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by fishcamp on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 10:28:24 AM EST
    down here in the keys, and I just flag down one of the boats and buy them for $8 per tail.  Of course, they are not the big Maine lobsters with the claws, but they are still very good.  We also have Stone crab claws, but they are extremely expensive.  Individuals are allowed five stone crab traps, but I haven't put mine out yet since it's blowing 24 kts. today, and I would probably fall into the ocean.

    I'm making.... (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by ZtoA on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 12:06:48 PM EST
    turkey, duck confit, dressing, mashed potatoes, brussels sprouts roasted in duck fat, gorgonzola cranberry tart, buttermilk biscuits, cranberry sauce, carrots, gravy. It's almost all pre-cooked, tho I have a full day of cooking today.

    4 more people have asked to come and, sure! I have lots of food here. I've sous vide cooked the turkey and duck legs, carrots and a meal for lunch. I'll finish the turkey in a very hot oven and the duck legs get re-thermed then finished in my newish deep fat fryer. Tried this out already and, easy and yum. Dessert is at my sister's a block away. Already the kids are pouring into town, with their love interests. It is so nice!

    Happy T-Giving to everyone.


    Try this for Christmas: (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 12:38:03 PM EST
    "Pace yourself, the better to savor the caramel duck-fat ice cream."    [NYT; excerpt from
    36 hours in Santa Fe

    Thanks, (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by KeysDan on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 03:21:19 PM EST
    My favorite holiday, inclusive and celebrated by all.

    I need some legal advise. (none / 0) (#68)
    by cpresley on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 01:33:02 AM EST
    My grand kids were here for 3 days over the holidays. This has been a nasty divorce & Mom is remarried, and moved the kids from Calif to Texas. Legal advice, the girls told me that their step father has put cameras in every room in the house including their bedrooms so they have no privacy even to dress.Are cameras in bedrooms for a 12 year old child legal, & if not who do we contact to take care of this.

    The family law court might help. (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 11:05:10 PM EST
    Sometimes there are volunteer attorneys who will help draft a request to the court. Depends on which court has jurisdiction.

    I need some legal advise. (none / 0) (#69)
    by cpresley on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 01:36:08 AM EST
    My grand kids were here for 3 days over the holidays. This has been a nasty divorce & Mom is remarried, and moved the kids from Calif to Texas. Legal advice, the girls told me that their step father has put cameras in every room in the house including their bedrooms so they have no privacy even to dress.Are cameras in bedrooms for a 12 year old child legal, & if not who do we contact to take care of this.

    Thank you and Back Atcha (none / 0) (#91)
    by Amiss on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 10:42:34 PM EST
    I hope everyone has much to give thanks for, including fuller than full tummies.

    On my "Thanks for" list is definitely you people here at Talk Left and for Jeralyn, especially.

    Much joy and happiness to you all thru the Holiday Season.


    Happy Thanksgiving Everyone (5.00 / 6) (#5)
    by MO Blue on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 11:48:10 AM EST
    Dinner at my daughter's house tomorrow. Both grandsons will be in the city for Thanksgiving. Always a treat to talk to Nana's Boys. They will always be Nana's boys even though one will 20 in Dec. and the other will be 24 in Feb.

    Have no idea what will be on the menu but since I don't have to cook I'm not sure I really care. ;o)

    Happy Thanksgiving (5.00 / 4) (#6)
    by jbindc on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 11:56:13 AM EST
    Hitting the road early in the morning headed for western PA.  I don't have to cook, so I am bringing a dessert and hope to see the Lions pull their heads out of their butts and beat the Bears!

    Go Lions! (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 02:00:49 PM EST
    It was like old times, watching the Bears get (none / 0) (#55)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 04:04:01 PM EST
    beat on Thanksgiving, with my brother by my side. Turkey dinner soon to dull the pain!

    Happy Turkey Day! (5.00 / 11) (#7)
    by CST on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 12:27:27 PM EST
    Very glad I'm not working this year.  There is nothing more miserable, IMO, than working on Thanksgiving.  Even Christmas was somehow not as bad.

    The family is gathering in Boston, so I won't have to travel far, which is good considering the cr@ppy weather.  Grateful to be close to home this time of year.  Looking forward to spending time with my sister and nephews who are visiting.

    A special shout out to those who are far from home and don't have any place to go for the holidays.  We usually take in a some strays but this year because of the weather a few of them are staying home.  So I guess right now I'm just extra thankful to be able to spend that time with my family, and am also especially grateful that I actually like my family :)

    Happy Turkey Day, one and all! (5.00 / 8) (#8)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 01:29:01 PM EST
    I'm working a half-day today, and then we're off to the airport this afternoon and bound for Hilo. To everyone who'll likewise be elsewhere, please travel and arrive safely, and enjoy the holiday with family and friends.

    (And if you're hosting tomorrow and know a certain friend or relative who's going to be alone tomorrow, and you have some extra room at the table, please consider extending an invitation. I think you'll be glad afterward that you did.)

    And finally, to everyone else who's anticipating getting the jump on Black Friday by mobbing the big retailers and megamalls tomorrow with all the other preprogrammed human drones, please reconsider.

    I mean, really, what is so all-fired important that you absolutely, positively need to shop for it on Thanksgiving Day? Let's put a stop to this Überkapital insanity before it gets further embedded in our collective consciousness.


    I sent (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 02:02:02 PM EST
    out an invitation to anybody who doesn't have a place to go but I didn't have any takers this year. Other years I have had a couple of stragglers. :)

    Miss you Pops! (5.00 / 7) (#17)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 04:27:13 PM EST
    Wanna talk about stragglers...my old man was always bringing somebody home from the bar for Thanksgiving dinner.

    The kindest mean s.o.b. to ever live. I'm thankful to bear his name and to live his lessons.

    Happy Thanksgiving Friends!


    My grandmother used to host ... (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 06:15:01 PM EST
    ... Thanksgiving dinner for the entire family, and there would always be a ton of food. She made it a point to invite others whom she knew would otherwise be alone, such as her daughter-in-law's father, who was a widower. And when my cousins were in college, she would encourage them to invite friends from school who were from outside the SoCal region and not going home for the long holiday weekend.

    Since then, it's become a quasi-family tradition for many of us, no matter where we presently reside, to invite single or elderly acquaintances with nowhere to go to spend Thanksgiving or Christmas with us, which for me pays homage to  my grandmother's memory and example. It's also just a nice thing to do for someone, and probably much appreciated by your guests.



    Happy T-day all! (5.00 / 10) (#12)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 02:16:12 PM EST
    My neighbor, who is Israeli, asked me about Thanksgiving:

    "So what's with tomorrow, it's that eating holiday?"

    Yes, it's that eating holiday!

    Book Burn (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by KeysDan on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 03:14:44 PM EST
    Kelvin Cochran, Chief of Atlanta's Department of Fire Rescue, was suspended for one month without pay, by Atlanta's Mayor because of  Cochran's self-published book, "Who Told You That You Where Naked."    Some are calling for the Chief's permanent departure.

    The Chief's magnum opus presents his Christian values that homosexuality is akin to bestiality and pederasty.  "Who Told You..." ran afoul of City rules for advance notification and distribution to employees at work--some of whom were concerned about intimidation and creation of a potentially hostile workplace for some.  Not to mention, of course, the worries of  those citizens who might need fire or other rescue.

    In the 'about the author' section of the book, Mr. Cochran identifies himself as Atlanta's Fire Rescue Chief and says that his first priority as Chief is to run the department "to cultivate its culture to the glory of God."  

    From the City's website, the Department's stated "core values" are "integrity, competence, excellence, honesty, predictability, accountability, and ism-free."  So, in the Chief's defense, it might be said that he is in alignment with departmental core values, since homophobia does not end in "ism."

    Just goes to show us that ... (none / 0) (#23)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 06:35:01 PM EST
    ... not all personal opinions are worthy of sharing.

    lol; Years ago I saw Tom Monaghan, the (none / 0) (#29)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 09:21:58 PM EST
    founder of Dominoes (cardboard) Pizza, on TV comparing himself to St. Thomas Aquinas.  I'll spare you my opinion of that.

    In PDX (none / 0) (#44)
    by ZtoA on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 11:59:15 AM EST
    Three Portland police officers were told Monday to remove Facebook posts that showed their Portland Police Bureau badges surrounded by a bracelet with the phrase "I am Darren Wilson."

    Police Chief Mike Reese ordered the three to remove the badges from their posts. Portland Mayor Charlie Hales said the posts would be reviewed by the Professional Standards Division to see if they violated city policies.

    "The image displayed does not represent this organization and was very inflammatory in nature," Reese said in a statement issued shortly after he ordered the officers to remove the photos. "Officers certainly have a right to have and express their opinions but not using an official badge of the Portland Police Bureau. The badge represents all members of the organization, past and present, and is an important symbol in our community that must not be tarnished."



    That's bad news (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by fishcamp on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 05:39:47 PM EST
    from my home town.  Sorry to hear this, since Portland is usually so sensible.  Glad to read you had a nice Thanksgiving dinner Z.

    Been at the Thanksgiving prep since (5.00 / 6) (#16)
    by Anne on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 03:46:33 PM EST
    around 8:30 this morning...although I started the dry brine for the turkey on Sunday.  We have a smaller group this year, but that's really kind of okay...a little less chaotic, in some ways, but my 2-year old grandson - Mr. Perpetual Motion - will add a lot of energy to the afternoon!

    What's on the menu?  Well, to start, some little cranberry brie bites (puff pastry rounds with cranberry and a little nugget of brie inside, all golden and puffy), cranberry salsa and chips, plus assorted cheeses and fruit.  

    At the table, will be Oyster stew, a relish tray (green and black olives, cocktail onions, carrot and celery sticks), turkey, dressing, mashed potatoes, sausage-stuffed mushrooms, green beans with peppered bacon and onion, butternut squash with garlic and parmesan, peas 'n' onions.  Dessert is a pie that has a layer of cheesecake, layer of pumpkin and layer of pecan, and an apple "slab" pie (you make it in a sheet pan instead of a pie plate).

    Saw this cool thing on Pinterest - Stuffing in a Bundt Pan - will be curious to see how that works.  It has eggs added to the stuffing to hold it together - if I can slice it, that will work great with the leftover turkey sandwiches the next day!

    I think we're going to explode somewhere around 6:30 tomorrow night!

    Hope you all have a festive, fun day with family and friends; for those traveling, have a safe journey!

    I think I gained five pounds reading your menu. (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by Angel on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 05:26:34 PM EST
    Roast turkey, (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Zorba on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 06:28:20 PM EST
    Salmon stuffed with crabmeat (we have some non-meat-eaters coming), gravy, garlic mashed potatoes, candied yams, roasted Brussels sprouts, Greek salad, oyster stuffing, Greek chestnut, raisin, and rice stuffing.  Appetizers: a cheese tray, with prosciutto, Genoa salami, sopressata, and venison sausage; smoked oysters with crackers, mayonnaise, and lemon juice; clam dip with chips.  Dessert: a butternut squash pie, a pecan pie, an apple pie, with whipped cream.

    Zorba, I didn't see any of your famous (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by fishcamp on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 09:13:31 PM EST
    Tzatziki on the menu...but I know it will be there.  I made a huge batch for the dinner I'm invited to attend.  It's your recipe too.   Thanks, and happy holidays.

    Actually, I pretty much always (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Zorba on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 01:17:33 PM EST
    have both tzatziki and hummus when we have guests, with pita chips and warmed pita bread wedges.  I don't mention it, because it's just always there, like serving butter, or serving rolls or bread.
    BTW, I'm sure you've figured this out already, but tzatziki is also good with fish.

    We have a pescatarian coming for (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 09:23:51 PM EST
    Christmas. Salmon stuffed w/crab may be the answer. Thank you.

    I ran with a pescatarian Saturday (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by CoralGables on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 10:05:32 PM EST
    Didn't have a clue what that was when it came up in conversation. Thankfully I didn't ask if it was a spinoff from the presbyterians.

    Please instruct re the salmon (none / 0) (#70)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 01:52:29 AM EST
    filled w/crab. Thank you.

    Get two large (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Zorba on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 10:32:22 AM EST
    Or four smaller salmon fillets.  One pound lump crabmeat.  Drizzle olive oil on both sides of fillets, and salt and pepper them.  Cut a lengthwise slit down the middle of each fillet, about 3/4 of the way through.
    Gently mix the crabmeat with one stick of melted butter, juice of half a lemon, 3 cloves garlic, finely minced, salt and black pepper to taste.  If you like Old Bay seasoning, add some of that.  I left it out because I knew that one of our pescatarian friends doesn't like it.
    Stuff (more or less) the salmon with the crab.  There's going to be more crab than will fit in the pockets, that's okay, just mound it up along the fillet.  Bake in a preheated 375 oven until done to your preference.  Take it out of the oven, sprinkle top with plain bread crumbs or panko (I used panko), drizzle more melted butter on the crumbs, and slip under the broiler to brown a bit.  
    I used two pounds of crab meat, but we all love crab, and yes, you will have mounds and mounds of crab.   ;-)

    PS (none / 0) (#86)
    by Zorba on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 01:07:22 PM EST
    I forgot to mention, serve with some lemon wedges so that people can add more lemon juice if they so desire.

    Ah. Thank you. This is definitely (none / 0) (#88)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 01:52:24 PM EST
    going to be the lynchpin of Christmas dinner.  Greek feta potatoes and whatever else.

    Many thanks.


    The salmon and crab (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Zorba on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 02:12:54 PM EST
    dish is very easy to do (this assumes that you are buying lump crab meat, and not picking crabmeat from whole crabs yourself!), doesn't require that many ingredients, and doesn't take that long to make.  It's not complicated, but it's tasty.
    It's also versatile.  Feel free to add any herbs/spices to the crab that you like.

    If you're looking for a little variation ... (none / 0) (#22)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 06:30:35 PM EST
    ... on your post-Thanksgiving Turkey sandwich, try a grilled turkey sandwich with sliced  jalapeños and jack cheese on sourdough bread. You just put the sandwich together with the aforementioned ingredients and then grill it on a griddle or wide pan, as you would a grilled cheese sandwich, until the cheese melts and fuses the sandwich together. If you're not an aficionado of the jalapeño, you can use slices of a milder pepper like red-yellow bells or Anaheims.  

    Happy Thanksgiving (5.00 / 6) (#24)
    by Slado on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 08:11:47 PM EST
    I am thankful to be here.

    I am thankful for family and friends.

    Happy thanksgiving to all my friends/fellow bloggers at TL and especially Jeralyn.

    Enjoy your holiday

    Be Thankful You Weren't on the Grand Jury (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by RickyJim on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 09:00:30 AM EST
    Here is a somewhat amusing account of the sorts of stuff the jury investigating the shooting of Michael Brown had to listen to for three and a half months.

    It is Thanksgiving (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 11:36:17 AM EST
    so I have been dredging up memories. One is of a cold Thanksgiving in which we killed hogs. Fresh pork tenderloin.  Yummy. Another is of a cold Thanksgiving in which we gathered corn. Being the child I was given the "down row." Honk if you know what that was.

    My Dad helped me keep up.

    And we had Black Friday. We got up the next morning at 5 and did it all over again.

    And we were healthy, happy and loved.

    The best thing I took from my youth was....

    It is not who you are but what you are.

    So Happy Holidays to everyone and may we all be here next year!

    Happy Thanksgiving to all (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Dadler on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 01:28:03 PM EST
    Dadler, maybe tomorrow, please (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 01:41:08 PM EST
    clarify how you privy to Officer Wilson's entire history of movement and thought from his first day as a law enforcement officer.



    oculus (5.00 / 4) (#50)
    by Dadler on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 02:06:13 PM EST
    i am merely making an assessment based on his statements, which evidence ZERO self awareness, ZERO understanding of the history of his own nation, ZERO understanding of the history of white police in black neighborhoods, ZERO psychological insight into ANYTHING but his utterly lacking qualifications for the job he holds. If he had merely expressed any awareness of himself in the world, if he could get his atrophied immature brain to accept that, sorry, he NEVER even hassles those kids if they are white, then maybe I think he is evolved. He was 22 when he became a cop, an age NO ONE should be able to, as the human brain isn't even fully developed yet. He has no business having a gun as a public servant. Absolutely none. Sorry, but as you know, I have blood relatives who are black, I have LIVED in the ghetto, seen cops not give a sh*t about black kids, seen them bully people for no reason, for heaven's sake, my friend, again as you probably know because I have mentioned it here, I had a gun held on me by a very angry cop as kid, and he didn't even have the humanity to apologize after he knew it was a mistake and that he'd traumatized me; and another cop without an ounce of genuine critical thinking ability or humanity had me at gunpoint in my own phucking garage a few months ago! I am basing this on a combination of LISTENING to what Wilson said and my concrete history of life experience IN THAT COMMUNITY. Sometimes, my friend, you just lack the game, and here, I am sorry, but in my opinion you do. Again, for all I know, the kid was possessed by the devil. That's NOT my point. It NEVER has been. My point is Wilson NEVER stops those kids if they are white. If you think he does, I seriously have to laugh. And derisively.

    I. Have. Been. There.  You have not, except as a prosecutor, and that is a VERY biased position. Now, so is mine, I admit that. Here's the difference. I know my bias. I'm not sure you have a grasp on yours all the time.

    But that's just my op as a free American who has always appreciated you presence here, so please accept my apology if I offended you. I just think you are seriously missing the larger point. Tragically missing it.

    BTW, the prosecutor I mentioned in an earlier comment, who is so biased in favor of police and is INCAPABLE of playing devil's advocate with her own thinking, I just found out, is now a judge. I pity any people like Michael Brown who ever have to come before her.

    Peace and Happy Thanksgiving and forgive the anger. Again, this is personal to me in many way. More ways than it is to you. That's just how life is sometimes. If it's not more personal, then you need to express how it isn't. Perhaps you have a family member who was a police officer who was killed in the line of duty. If so, bring up those difficult ironies, without everyone being fully expressive...we all suffer.



    You are such a powerful writer, which makes your (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 02:33:25 PM EST
    especially strong. I haven, been a prosecutor since 1989. I did often defend law enforcement agencies and officers in civil and civil rights violation lawsuits.

    I have no idea what Wilson did or didn't do or thought during his law enforcement career except as he has stated. Of course opinions quite forceful.

    I am aware, although not from personal experience, that some law enforcement officers harass and abuse minorities. A Caucasian friend, for example, told me local police stopped her car (a Lexus)!in La Jolla. She was in the front passenger seat. Her black sign. other was driving. No reason articulated for the stop. I have witnessed an SDPD officer treat a Mexican teenager quite roughly at Petco after the kid apparently mouthed off. Dodgers in town.

    The job of being a law enforcement officer has its benefits (medical care, early retirement, sometimes respect in the community). But it doesn't pay the incoming officer very much. I doubt well-educated, more mature individuals are flocking to the police academies (and they have difficulty passing the physical tests).

    My critique of your two comments is centered on the generalized nature of your comments, which you seem to apply to anyone in law enforcement cand to Officer Wilson. This strikes me as unfair, though I understand how your personal interactions w/law enforcement leads to this.


    Thank you (none / 0) (#71)
    by ZtoA on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 02:40:36 AM EST
    for writing your ideas at more length on this subject. IMO you are BOTH right. Oddly. Yes IMO you are both correct.

    IMO the bad guy' is institutionalized bigotry. bigotry about race, gender, sexual identity and so on. Our excellent legal system has to be (and is) a follower on societal evolutions, not, maybe at this point in time, a leader on those. That is a change since IMO the social changes are happening, at this point in time, faster than the laws or the judgements on those laws.

    This was not the case in the past, many years/decades/centuries. What will happen now that mass movements in society go so far beyond other mass movements in co-existing societies? What will the actual laws and the enactments of those laws do??????  (examples, Ferguson, rape culture, gender identities, marriage equality, gender equality)  ( and these examples are just close her right at home in the USA, beyond that the global war on drugs, IS and the endless war(s) on 'terror' "  etc. As someone said to me "all closets are connected. When you  start to clean one you have to clean all the closets".


    As Gore Vidal put it (none / 0) (#73)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 03:57:13 AM EST

    We must always remember that the police are recruited from the criminal classes.
    As quoted by Dick Cavett, in "The Swimmers", The New York Times (3 June 2007)

    Show us the Beef You Turkeys (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by RickyJim on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 06:03:57 PM EST
    I am thoroughly disgusted with the implication made by so many bloggers and posters all over the Internet that the Ferguson Grand Jury was too stupid to make the right decision.  I think a lot of the complaints come from lawyers who are scared s***ss that maybe this kind of non adversarial search for the truth, with minimal control by by warring shysters, might become more common in the US.  This Grand Jury investigation was as close as we are going to see in in this country of the kind of trial held in the non English speaking world.  There was a panel of two judges (the 2 ladies from the DA's office) who were armed with a dossier of previously collected evidence, presenting it to the jury who could raise their hands and pepper the witnesses with questions.  A difference from the model used in continental Europe, Asia and South America is that the defendant, lawyers, victim's family did not have a seat in the proceedings to also ask questions (but not cross examine) and I admit that was a minus.  

    I liked the fact that before each witness testified, the jury was presented with all the TV and law enforcement interviews that person previously gave.  If you sample the proceedings you will see the GJ was paying attention and probing the witnesses throughout.  The thought that they were swindled by a Svengali prosecutor to come up with the wrong verdict shows more about the complainers than the actual evidence.  If a real case can be made that Wilson should be indicted and undergo an official US, let the best lawyer win, trial then the complaining loudmouths should be able to construct a case from the totality of the published evidence and present it to state and federal officials.  Double jeopardy doesn't apply.  Go ahead,I dare them to construct that case.

    Agreed (2.00 / 1) (#63)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 08:04:29 PM EST
    As I read, I found the autopsy showed no damage to Brown's neck. Yet Johnson, in his FBI interview describes how Wilson had his hands around Brown's neck. That establish's that Johnson was not truthful and makes all his testimony questionable.

    If the DA just wanted to charge Wilson and win... would that have been allowed????


    The mere thought (1.00 / 1) (#76)
    by whitecap333 on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 07:24:50 AM EST
    that Dorian Johnson should be deemed more credible than Darren Wilson takes us into the Twilight Zone of racial politics.

    I noticed many articles and bloggers claiming (none / 0) (#64)
    by Redbrow on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 09:06:47 PM EST
    How unusual it was for the accused to testify before the GJ and how prosecutors almost always convince jurors to indict.

    This NYT article from 2004 noted a growing trend in the accused testifying and succeeding in not being indicted.

    In a sharp departure for New York City's criminal justice system, defense lawyers are allowing many suspects -- from police officers to hardened street criminals -- to testify before grand juries, with notable success.

    In years past, such risky testimony was considered nearly unthinkable because grand juries were deemed to be so willing to follow the wishes of prosecutors that they would, in the words of a former New York State chief judge, ''indict a ham sandwich.''

    But this year, in Brooklyn alone, nearly 14 percent of felony suspects have testified before grand juries investigating their cases, and slightly more than half of those cases have ended with no charges, according to the district attorney's office. Citywide, the numbers vary, from about 5 percent of suspects going before grand juries in Manhattan to as many as 18 percent on Staten Island, but in every borough, what was once extremely rare is now commonplace, according to lawyers' accounts, district attorneys' data and descriptions by people who have served on grand juries.

    Grand Jury Testimony (none / 0) (#75)
    by whitecap333 on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 07:09:15 AM EST
    I haven't worked my way through all of it, and don't intend to, but the transcript shows that Wilson was subjected to intense cross-examination on all the relevant particulars.  His testimony was fully consistent with the detailed interrogation he submitted to the morning following the incident.

    Wilson's Lawyer Was Not Present (none / 0) (#80)
    by RickyJim on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 09:57:54 AM EST
    when he testified.  The New York law allows the defendant's lawyer to accompany him to the Grand Jury proceedings.

    To be fair... (none / 0) (#93)
    by unitron on Sat Nov 29, 2014 at 05:41:42 AM EST
    I am thoroughly disgusted with the implication made by so many bloggers and posters all over the Internet that the Ferguson Grand Jury was too stupid to make the right decision.

    ...I'm sure there are plenty convinced that it's not stupidity but racism.

    Although there are probably a few accusations of stupid racism in there somewhere as well.


    Went on the 40th Annual (5.00 / 3) (#65)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 09:48:16 PM EST
    ...Appetite Seminar, the longest running recreational mountain bike event took place today.

    It started in 1975 with a half dozen "cruiser" riders.  Now a thousand people turn out for an event that has no organization or leadership, but still attracts sponsors.

    Afterward I signed copies of my book, which sold out in an hour.

    The conclusion of a successful dinner (5.00 / 4) (#72)
    by ZtoA on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 02:54:57 AM EST
     is the diners had meaningful conversations/connections. Tonite at my T-Giving dinner (which I had spent weeks preparing for and, well, if I do have to say, the food was really OK) there was a very good feeling, generally.

    I had a plus 3 add on at the last minute. No problem since I had lots of food. But this family lost a wife/mother just last week to cancer and she was mother to the 8 and 12 years olds who came to my house tonite. I seated the 12 year old boy next to me at dinner and it took a while, but he did come out to play after a bit of conversation on my part. And he is a fascinating person. I hope we become lifelong friends.  He liked my duck confit, and hates his science teacher because he dismisses the kids' questions. The dad is actually a sommelier (sp?) and was seated next to us too. The kid knew how to taste a wine tho he did not like to 'drink' them. I learned so much from both of them. They were in a grief state, but still were able, after a bit, to relate to us who were to them, esp the kids, strangers/hosts. I am so thankful.

    Hidden treasures come from effort to put forth something creative and nice.

    Thank you for your thankfulness (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by christinep on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 07:09:18 PM EST
    What a beautiful dinner that must have been ... and, I would not be surprised if--some future day--the bereaved children & father whom you treated so compassionately and lovingly as your guests will long remember in their hearts and pass that human kindness on to others as well.

    Thank you and Blessings of Peace to You, ZtoA.


    No Dadler (1.50 / 2) (#53)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 03:12:47 PM EST
    My point is Wilson NEVER stops those kids if they are white.

    There was a broadcast out describing them and reporting the strong arm robbery.

    Would you have him ignoring a crime report?

    Read the GJ testimony.

    The Ferguson PD put out so many ... (none / 0) (#56)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 04:40:25 PM EST
    ... conflicting stories to the public regarding this sorry event -- such as false allegations that Officer Wilson had suffered a fractured eye socket during an exchange of blows, which included circulating false photos alleged to be Wilson to sympathetic sources in the internet and mainstream media -- that any subsequent "evidence" and "testimony" offered to a grand jury by these good ol' boys with badges should be considered somewhat suspect. Given their propensity for making willfully misleading public statements over these past few months, I certainly would not put it past them to have falsified records ex post facto in this case.

    I consider the Ferguson Police Dept. to be inherently corrupt and untrustworthy as an institution. And that's a really sad thing to have to say about a law enforcement agency and its members, whose sole raison d'etre has apparently been to perpetuate their own employment at the ultimate expense of local residents. The entire department should be decommissioned, its members' employment with the city terminated, and their duties transferred to a corresponding county agency.

    As far as I'm concerned, the kabuki which played out before that grand jury was nothing short of a tragic farce. And I further believe that prosecutors probably skirted a very fine line regarding the suborning of perjury, when they pointedly chose to leave unchallenged the veracity of the testimony offered by Wilson to grand jurors -- particularly in light of the obvious discrepancies between his account and those offered by the various eyewitnesses.



    It is precisely (3.50 / 2) (#62)
    by whitecap333 on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 07:47:29 PM EST
    this sort of malicious claptrap that has inspired so much violence.  The report of the "fractured eye socket" came from some nutjob, not anyone associated with the Ferguson Police Department.  I surmise you are wretchedly unhappy with the existing "power structure."  You haven't seen anything yet.

    You are so full of it (2.50 / 4) (#61)
    by Redbrow on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 07:30:56 PM EST
    Do you even read your sources or do you completely lack reading comprehension? The Ferguson PD never made any such claim of a fracture. They also did not distribute the fake photo as you allege.

    You are so unhinged that any subsequent "evidence" and "testimony" offered to by you good should be considered somewhat suspect. Given your propensity for making willfully misleading public statements over these past few months, I certainly would not put it past you to...


    Have you read the GJ testimony?? (1.50 / 2) (#58)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 05:28:53 PM EST
    I am about 600 pages into and what I see is dedicated professionals investigating what happened and documenting and presenting that information to 9 members of the surrounding society in which Michael Brown lived.

    And after that was accomplished it was determined that Brown was killed by Wilson in an act of self defense.

    And you make no mention of the indisputable fact that Brown had just strong armed robbed a convenience store.

    I ask you. Are you willing to accept the fact that everything that happened to Brown on that day stemmed from his illegal and brutish actions??

    And please, quit with the claims. You have the documents. Show us the facts of your claims.


    From the GJ Testimony (5.00 / 3) (#67)
    by MO Blue on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 11:35:04 PM EST
    Testimony of the first person to interview Wilson, his direct supervafter the shooting:

    ...Transcript of his direct supervisor's testimony. Sergeant LNU* responded to the scene within minutes after the shooting and was the first person to interview him.

    Question by a Prosecutor Ms. Alizadeh

    Q: Did he know about it? Did he talk about knowing about the stealing?
    A: He did not know anything about the stealing call.

    Q: He told you he did not know anything about the stealing?

    A: He did not know anything. He was out on another call in the apartment complex adjacent to Canfield Green.
    [GJ, Vol. V, pp. 52-53]

    Question by a GJ member

    A: He did not mention it to me again. I learned about it at a later time.

    Q: Has he ever told you, yeah, I didn't know anything about what happened up at the Ferguson Market?

    A: Yes, he told me that in subsequent conversations.

    Q: He told you he didn't know about there being a stealing at the Ferguson Market?

    A: Correct
    [GJ, Vol. V, p. 58

    And your point is???? (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 09:46:14 AM EST
    Go back and start reading on page 57 and you will discover that he is talking about the initial contact with Brown and Johnson.

    Your statement is not accurate (none / 0) (#95)
    by MO Blue on Sat Nov 29, 2014 at 09:17:54 AM EST
    On page 31 the sergeant describes what Wilson told him about his initial contact with Brown and Johnson. Wilson tells the sergeant that the encounter happened because they were walking in the street. Wilson told the sergeant that he stopped his vehicle after he was told to Fck off.

    The sergeant clearly states on page 52 that his conversation with Wilson where he told him he did not know of the market robbery took place 5 or 6 days after the incident.

    In fact on the page you cited, page 57, the sergeant once again clearly states that Wilson told him in subsequent conversation that he didn't know about the robbery.

    The sergeant began his testimony on page 12 and ended it on page 75. His testimony clearly states that Wilson told him on at least 2 separate occasions that he was unaware of the robbery. Nowhere in his testimony did he ever state anything else.


    The radio logs (3.00 / 4) (#74)
    by whitecap333 on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 06:49:03 AM EST
    leave no real doubt that Officer Wilson was not only aware of the Ferguson Market robbery, but was "on the lookout" for the suspects.  

    Track 350: "He took a whole box of Swisher cigars."

    Track 366: Officer 21 [Wilson]: "21 to 25 or 22. Do you guys need me?"

    You think maybe the radio logs were "faked"?

    Wilson was hardly questioned at all at the scene, because of the growing hostility of the crowd, in an area known for antipathy to law enforcement.  He was concerned for his safety, and was granted leave to depart almost immediately.  When questioned the next morning, and asked to explain why he had backed up to Brown and Johnson, he stated "The comments he said and the cigarillos in his hand, judging by the call we just had as well."

    Your comment is just one more disingenuous attempt to suggest Brown's outrageous conduct during his "shopping expedition" should not be considered in weighing whether he attacked Wilson.  


    My comment cites actual Grand Jury (3.80 / 5) (#77)
    by MO Blue on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 07:56:33 AM EST
    testimony by Wilson's direct supervisor who was the first person who interviewed Wilson.

    My comment addressed whether or not Wilson knew about the theft at the market and escalated his confrontatation with Brown due to his knowledge of the event. The sergeant says that Wilson told him that he did not know.

    You are implying that the  Sergeant lied under oath during his testimony about what Wilson told him in the interview and during subsequent conversations on the subject.

    When choosing between your rants vs actual Grand Jury testimony, I think I stick to looking at the testimony.


    Then explain (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by whitecap333 on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 08:53:01 AM EST
    the radio logs.

    I'm going to assume... (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by unitron on Sat Nov 29, 2014 at 05:50:47 AM EST
    ...what I see is dedicated professionals investigating what happened and documenting and presenting that information to 9 members of the surrounding society...

     ...that you actually meant to all 12 of the jurors.


    No, I think that was a classic freudian slip. (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Nov 29, 2014 at 09:31:25 PM EST
    9 of the jurors were white.  3 were not.

    By golly I think you could be right (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by MO Blue on Sat Nov 29, 2014 at 10:32:18 PM EST
    and the comment as stated was probably one of the truest comment he has ever made on the issue.

    We went to see Mockingjay tonight (none / 0) (#25)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 08:26:02 PM EST
    Enjoyed it. Well done. Brings the books to life. But it is also a sad reminder that we lost Philip Seymour Hoffman.

    Since you have actually seen the movie (none / 0) (#32)
    by MO Blue on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 10:38:42 PM EST
    do you think that it would be enjoyable for someone who knows absolutely nothing about the Hunger Games?

    I think this might be the least (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 10:51:49 PM EST
    Enjoyable of the existing three parts under those circumstances. The first two are much more colorful, and display the lifestyles of the different districts.  This portion is appropriately gray given where they must survive right now.  Dull in color, even the personalities have hard edges, but it is where you are in the story.  I would go and see if it inspires you to see the first two.

    They are very by the book.  The movies don't deviate from the written story.  It does make it very interesting seeing how different actors bring the characters to life.


    Thanks (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by MO Blue on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 10:59:57 PM EST
    Knowing me if I find this movie interesting, I will go back and see the first two movies in order or read the books. My grandsons may still have the books at my daughters house.

    I'd still stick with going in order (none / 0) (#34)
    by CoralGables on Wed Nov 26, 2014 at 10:56:13 PM EST
    so you can see how each character has evolved. Or at a minimum read the books before jumping into Mockingjay Part 1.

    Would prefer to see movies in order (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by MO Blue on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 09:42:14 AM EST
    But my friend is gung-ho on seeing it tomorrow and I'm too busy later today or tomorrow to do a movie marathon.

    So a$$backwards is the only option available other than telling my friend no.

    Have a Happy Thanksgiving and good luck on your next fishing trip finding a rounder flounder. ;o)


    We watched A Most Wanted Man earlier today. (none / 0) (#51)
    by Angel on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 02:32:53 PM EST
    Great movie, PSH was fabulous.  So sorry he is gone.

    Great movie (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 11:25:53 PM EST
    If I could ignore the use of the phrase In sha Allah in it.  It was used in exactly the identical way my husband experienced in Iraq, pertaining to secular violence....it was God's will, the citizen's could do nothing about it.

    When I shared that experience here at Talkleft his and my credibility was attacked.  I was a bit "so what", because my husband is so so far from being a liar it isn't even funny.  Just really sad and sorry that Liberals will fight tooth and claw to be as ignorant as Conservatives sometimes.

    And it isn't that Hollywood is a factual go to, but writers usually do some research on their topic, and what they came up with coincides 100% with what an American soldier serving in both Iraq and Afghanistan experienced with the social concept of the phrase In sha Allah.


    I think we will purchase this tonight (none / 0) (#57)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 05:23:56 PM EST
    Recovering from food, and we made half as much as many but still in a food coma :)

    So much going on when it was at the theaters, and my heart was still so broken from losing him.  An incredible actor.  Felt the same way after losing Heath Ledger.  Ledger got to be a pretty boy, but after Brokeback Mountain and the Dark Knight it was obvious he had only scratched the surface of his talent.  Got to enjoy much more of Hoffman, but he was squarely most likely in the middle of his gifts.


    Moving your files (none / 0) (#37)
    by Jomo on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 07:41:38 AM EST
    Is simple if you use a cloud storage system.  I installed a cloud backup program under the "free" trial, backed up to the cloud, bought the new pc & downloaded to the new machine. The amount of time depends on the speed of your internet connection, but it can upload in background, so work can go on.

    You can cancel the service after the download, if you think the cloud presents ongoing data security issues...it was slick and painless for me.

    Maybe email this info to (none / 0) (#48)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 01:38:12 PM EST

    In other news: (none / 0) (#38)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 08:58:50 AM EST
    Two idols were played on Survivor last night resulting in Wes being voted off.

    I'm sure some people are thankful for that -- and others not.

    I'm just thankful... (none / 0) (#40)
    by unitron on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 09:08:57 AM EST
    ...that there are other kinds of shows on television as well.

    And his dad did it to him by acting crazy (none / 0) (#54)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 04:02:31 PM EST
    at tribal and raising suspicions...was hoping Reed's tactic would work and Jon would be out.

    Oh well, I have enough other things to be thankful for!


    One Remaining Mystery (none / 0) (#81)
    by RickyJim on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 10:06:37 AM EST
    According to Dorian Johnson's testimony, he and Brown met up shortly after 7AM and they both decided to get cigarillos. The store robbery happened close to noon.  What were they doing in between?  Even the super sleuths at the ConservativeTreeHouse haven't figured that one out yet.

    Dorian (1.00 / 1) (#96)
    by whitecap333 on Sat Nov 29, 2014 at 11:57:32 AM EST
    seems quite evasive about what he and Mike were up to between 7:00 and 11:00 am.  CNN divulged yesterday that the chat they had with the construction worker was about "weed," not Jesus.  Since Mike was found with a bag of marijuana on his person, one might reasonable infer that they were "indulging" that morning.

    Dorian's testimony puts the issue of Mike's possible mental impairment in a new light.  He says that the store clerk did in fact threaten to report the theft of cigars to the police (Vol. 4, p. 37.)  Acutely aware of the danger of arrest, he thought the behavior of his companion inexplicable (pp. 37-40.)  As may be seen in the video, Brown starts to leave, and then turns and advances on the clerk in a threatening manner, as if in response to something he had said.  This would appear, on the face of it, to represent self-destructive behavior.  Dorian entertained no doubts about the seriousness of this offense.  When he spotted a police cruiser approaching them, "I was just, wow, we're really going to get locked up, this is going to happen" (p. 40.)  

    There has been much controversy over the possible impact of Mike's THC level on his conduct.  No amount of cynical "reefer madness" wisecrackery can negate the inference that, on this day, Mike's thinking, in respect to self-preservation, would seem to have been impaired.


    Repeating garbage (5.00 / 4) (#97)
    by Yman on Sat Nov 29, 2014 at 07:19:04 PM EST
    ... and calling it "reasonable inferences" - do you really believe that makes it so?

    There's no need to negate these "inferences" because they are nothing more than silly, specious attacks.  But at least you've dropped the tired meme of "scared of being arrested for pot" while "out-of-his-mind and charging an armed police officer" just seconds later.


    Ah, (1.50 / 2) (#100)
    by whitecap333 on Sun Nov 30, 2014 at 03:38:22 AM EST
    but were I to say that Brown was obviously "out of control" that day, as witnessed by his defiant indifference to the store clerk's threat to call the police, his attack on the officer at the patrol car, and his foolhardy attempt to get within lunging distance of him, moments later, that might well be construed, under the commenting guidelines, as an impermissible statement of opinion as fact.  That is why I make it clear that I here rely on inference, but you know that.

    But to return to matters of substance, have you managed to come up with a plausible explanation for that trail of blood behind Brown's body?  I heard Mark O'Mara claim yesterday, on CNN, that it was 25 ft. long, and proves that Brown had doubled back towards Wilson.  I was "all ears" for what the other "legal analysts" thought of this, but they seem to find this subject most distasteful.  


    Of course I do (5.00 / 3) (#101)
    by Yman on Sun Nov 30, 2014 at 09:40:16 AM EST
    That was my point.  You call your silly, specious attacks "inferences" - but they're still just silly, specious claims.



    Did Dorian (none / 0) (#83)
    by whitecap333 on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 11:41:46 AM EST
    appear before the grand jury?  If so, do you know what volume of the proceedings contains his testimony?

    Dorian's Testimony (none / 0) (#84)
    by RickyJim on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 12:16:37 PM EST
    It is in Volume 4 and here is a link

    Five Part Commentary on Dorian's Testimony (none / 0) (#85)
    by RickyJim on Fri Nov 28, 2014 at 12:22:06 PM EST
    By Commonsense here.