Thursday News and Open Thread

The House held a hearing on Ebola today. Several advocated for a travel ban. Here is the National Institute of Health's Ebola page. The Center for Disease Control's page is here.

James Cole, #2 at the Justice Department, is resigning. I like this quote of his:

“We have to stop filling our jails,” Cole said. “The only way you’re going to do that is to take people who are addicted and start dealing with addictions, dealing with their mental health issues, instead of just throwing them in jail.”

British ISIS hostage John Cantlie released episode four of his video messages today. You Tube took it down, but it's available on Daily Motion. More of the same, with a focus on how the media and government feed each other and ramp up fear. [More...]

Former MA Governor Michael Dukakis testified today for Robel Philippos. He's known him since he was a kid (his wife Kitty worked with Robel's mother)and spoke to him days after his interviews with the FBI. Dukakis took Robel to the DNC convention in Boston in 2004 and says Robel is a good kid. Also, Robel's friends testified he smoked a lot of pot the day he went to Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's dorm.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    BAM! And the Giants are going (5.00 / 5) (#17)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 16, 2014 at 10:14:08 PM EST
    to the series!!!!!  :D

    ... because, you know, Ebola.

    It should (none / 0) (#35)
    by lentinel on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 07:14:33 AM EST
    be cancelled because the Yankees are not in it.

    just kidding...


    Well, when you put it that way, ... (none / 0) (#144)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:52:38 PM EST
    ... "Let the Games begin!"

    But seriously, though, this will only be the second World Series in MLB history where both of the participants reached the postseason as wild card entries, rather than as division winners. The first one was back in 2002, when the San Francisco Giants and Anaheim Angels squared off.

    That particular Series is best remembered for the Angels' stunning late-inning rally from a 5-run deficit to take Game 6 and force a decisive Game 7, which they won to capture their only world championship.

    Here's some more interesting but otherwise pretty useless World Series wild card trivia:

    • Since the wild card format was first introduced to the MLB postseason 20 years ago, five teams have won the World Series as a wild card -- the Florida Marlins (twice, in 1997 and 2003), Anaheim Angels (2002), Boston Red Sox (2004) and St. Louis Cardinals (2011).

    • In three consecutive seasons, wild card teams won the World Series -- the Angels (2002), Marlins (2003) and Red Sox (2004).

    • Five other teams have made it to the World Series as a wild card, but lost -- the New York Mets (2000, to the New York Yankees), San Francisco Giants (2002, to the Angels), Houston Astros (2005, to the Chicago White Sox), Detroit Tigers (2006, to the Cardinals) and Colorado Rockies (2007, to the Red Sox).

    • In six consecutive seasons, at least one of the two teams in the World Series was a wild card -- the Angels and Giants (2002), Marlins (2003), Red Sox (2004), Astros (2005), Tigers (2006) and Rockies (2007).


    Ugh (none / 0) (#141)
    by Slado on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:48:16 PM EST
    In all three games in San Fran the Cardinals had a lead or were tied entering the sixth inning.

    The inability to close out these games from the pen lost the series.

    As a Cards fan it's hard to complain after being in four straight NLC series but man we should have been playing the royals to get revenge for 1985.


    Hey Donald (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by cpresley on Thu Oct 16, 2014 at 10:17:39 PM EST
    I counted my chickens last night & tonight they hatched. Go Giants.

    They sure did! (none / 0) (#23)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 01:37:43 AM EST
    And the Cardinals laid a big egg.

    Cluck... (none / 0) (#34)
    by lentinel on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 07:13:47 AM EST
    And Donald, how about a friendly (none / 0) (#56)
    by fishcamp on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:36:08 AM EST
    wager on our two alma mater's football game tomorrow?  I realize the Ducks are favored by 20.5 points, hate those half points, and they are playing in Eugene, but I believe it was you who said, the Ducks always look better on paper than they do on the field.  So make me an offer if you dare, you Husky guy. :-)

    Sorry, but I won't touch those odds. (none / 0) (#179)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 04:07:14 PM EST
    Although I'm a loyal UW alum, I think the Huskies are going to get royally blitzed tomorrow in Eugene. I'll be very surprised if they beat that 3-TD spread.

    Washington may currently be 5-1, but they struggled mightily against two teams which one would've thought they'd otherwise handle easily. They were very lucky to get out of Hawaii alive in the season opener (17-16), and then Eastern Washington gave them all they could handle in the Home opener up at Seattle (59-52).

    To be fair, this is Chris Peterson's first year as UW coach, and he's having to make do with a lot of players inherited from the Steve Sarkisian regime. Give him a few seasons to recruit his own guys and four years from now, UW will likely be awesome.

    But on this particular weekend, Oregon should easily run the Huskies right out of Austen Stadium, as so many whipped puppies with their tails between their legs. So, were I to wager, I'd say -- Ducks, 45-14.

    P.S.: I think that you'll like this map created from a poll conducted by Reddit.com, which displays the most reviled college football teams in America by state (except for Alaska and Hawaii). Take a look at the northwest.



    Don't blame you with that spread, (none / 0) (#199)
    by fishcamp on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 08:43:09 PM EST
    I doubt anyone is going to bet.  Your score idea makes it even more impossible.  Pretty funny map you found.  btw what's happening with the storm Ana?  Once again there should be some large waves on strange and normally cam beaches.  Storm waves are often very hard to paddle out, since they're so close together.  And out would be even farther than Hanalei Bay, which was too far for me at my best.  

    ... which usually a sign of an approaching major storm front. Ana was officially upgraded to hurricane status a few hours ago, and at present it's directly south of the Big Island and moving WNW at 17 mph, having picked up both speed and intensity. But Hurricane Ana is also tracking south of us, and while we'll get a lot of rain and storm surge, it looks like we're probably not going to suffer a direct hit.

    That said, many of us still remember what happened in Sept. 1992 with Hurricane Iniki, which similarly tracked south of the islands as a Category 1, when it suddenly stalled, doubled in size and intensity to Category 4 status, dramatically turned 90 degrees, and then sped due north across open ocean at 35 mph -- that's remarkably fast for a hurricane -- to slam into Kauai and Oahu from the south with 155-165 mph winds. Its highest recorded wind gusts were about 220-225 mph at the U.S. Navy's Makaha Ridge radar facility in west Oahu.

    We all thought Iniki had passed us by, and its change in direction and intensity happened so quickly that we effectively had only nine hours' lead time to prepare ourselves for its impact. The civil defense sirens sounded at 5:00 a.m., and it made landfall at 2:00 p.m. The eye passed directly over Kauai, which took the brunt of the storm and was left totally devastated in its wake, but Oahu's west and north shore communities also suffered very extensive damage. In east Honolulu, the 10-ft. storm surge closed Kalanianaole Hwy., which is the one road in and out of Kuliouou Valley, so we were completely stranded and without power for almost 36 hours.

    Hurricane Iniki proved such a large and powerful storm that it didn't dissipate fully as a tropical storm until it was halfway to Alaska, and its remnants still managed to dump about 10 inches of rain in Anchorage. About 70% of all structures on Kauai were either destroyed completely or damaged extensively, and almost 40% of that island's population of 50,000 was rendered homeless. At the time, with $2 billion in damage and 9 deaths (6 on Kauai, 3 on Oahu), Iniki was the second costliest hurricane in U.S. history, then surpassed only by Hurricane Andrew, which had crashed into South Florida only six weeks earlier.

    So with that in mind, we're going to be keeping a wary eye on Ana throughout the entire weekend.



    Yes we need to stop putting (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by ZtoA on Thu Oct 16, 2014 at 11:33:54 PM EST
    non violent drug addicted people in jail. What is wrong with our society and politics that we simply cannot see this? It is just so obvious. I hope things will start/continue to change in this regard. Thank you J for being such a vocal advocate on legal reform on this issue. IMO it will, over time, have a great effect.

    Biden's son tested positive (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 12:17:14 AM EST
    Hunter, the 41 yr old lawyer, was discharged from the Navy for testing positive for coke. You know, he looks an awful lot like Jerry, Hello Neuman~
    The thing is, it is about time that they empty out some of those cells of MJ smokers. Costing us a bundle there too.

    good points. (5.00 / 4) (#30)
    by cpinva on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:02:54 AM EST
    "The thing is, it is about time that they empty out some of those cells of MJ smokers. Costing us a bundle there too."

    which goes to mr. james' comment regarding addiction treatment. there's no such thing as "pot addiction", so any "treatment" would be a medical fraud. the only actual "addiction" involved with pot, is to the billions of dollars spent in a (I think intentional) never-ending effort to suppress it. an entire legal/incarceration industry has been created around it, that will never willingly give up those sweet, sweet tax dollars.


    Because (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 11:40:01 AM EST
    the US does not lock up the people we need protection from, rather we lock up the people are just mad at. Like those dirty hippy druggies.

    The bag is mixed. (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by lentinel on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 07:12:20 AM EST
    James Cole, #2 at the Justice Department, is resigning.

    I like: (kinda...)

    "We have to stop filling our jails," Cole said. "The only way you're going to do that is to take people who are addicted and start dealing with addictions, dealing with their mental health issues, instead of just throwing them in jail."

    Don't like:
    ...(H)e was among the administration's chief public defenders of the government's bulk collection of Americans' telephone records, a practice disclosed by former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden.

    Although, even in the "I like" department...
    I would prefer that he had said that we need to do away with this idiotic, antiquated, puritan, corrupt and insane "war on drugs" completely.

    The government should not be involved with "addictions" or "mental health issues". It can't. It is too fked up to begin with.

    This is for doctors, therapists and patients to deal with.

    Stay out of it, Justice Department, and start concentrating on Justice.

    Work on reviewing the horrors of coercive plea bargaining.
    Start explaining why so many people seem to be being released after having been imprisoned for decades for crimes they did not commit.
    Things like that.

    Protect and serve.
    Stop meddling.

    Losing (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 08:41:22 AM EST
    Asked by the moderator at the closing of last night's U.S. Senate Debate in Kansas to say something nice about their opponent here is how each man replied. One generous, the other petty and mean-spirited. GREG ORMAN (Ind) - "Every time I've had an opportunity to talk privately with the senator, he's been a gentleman with a great sense of humor." SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R) - "I would say that you are a very well-dressed opponent. I admire your accumulation of wealth. I have a little question about how you got there from here, but that's the American dream."

    What a tool. (none / 0) (#97)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 11:41:41 AM EST
    Roberts that is.

    Why worry about Mexico (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 12:50:05 PM EST
    EEE 2, Ebola 1... (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 01:20:12 PM EST
    You guys can sh*t your pants over Ebola, I'm gonna wet myself over Eastern Equine Encephalitis, which has double the death toll of Ebola stateside as of now.  Unless the New Hampshire Dept. of Health & Human Services is lying to us to prevent a panic.

    And let's not forget good old fashioned meningitis, 1 dead hundreds at risk at SDSU.

    Alaska's (5.00 / 3) (#151)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:05:44 PM EST
    gay marriage ban falls (again) and Arizona falls as well.

    Keeping to itself its reasons for doing the same thing again, the Supreme Court on Friday afternoon rejected a plea to stop same-sex marriages from going ahead in Alaska.  By denying the state's plea for postponement, in a one-sentence order that did not provide any explanation, the Court's action had the effect of making that state the thirty-first in which gays and lesbians can marry legally.

    SNIP (from another post on the front page)

    UPDATED 1:43 p.m.  Arizona Attorney General Tom Horne issued a public statement Friday morning saying that the state would not appeal the decisions against the state's ban on same-sex marriage.  He said there was "zero" chance the Supreme Court would review the Ninth Circuit decision that led to the nullification of Arizona's ban.  In a letter to county clerks across the state, he said that they could begin issuing marriage licenses immediately to gay and lesbian couples.  These developments make Arizona the thirtieth state in which such marriages are now fully permitted.  This will also allow recognition of gay and lesbian marriages performed in other states for Arizonans.

    The ease of this almost (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:13:18 PM EST
    makes me uncomfortable.  I keep telling myself there is no "other shoe" to drop.

    It's almost surreal


    The train is pulling out of the station (5.00 / 2) (#158)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:16:28 PM EST
    Texas will be last on the train. (none / 0) (#164)
    by Angel on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:30:06 PM EST
    Oh it's not like the bigots are gone (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by CST on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:34:34 PM EST
    They're just losing, losing hard.  And it's awesome.  I mean you can knock this argument down in one fell swoop - they don't ban elderly marriage.  Problem solved.  The opposition is flailing.

    Shoot I'm sure there are still a lot of people out there who oppose interracial marriage.  Those people are just mostly irrelevant now.


    I am Sure You Have Seen the... (5.00 / 2) (#173)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:45:30 PM EST
    ..."If you like Barack Obama, you'll love Wendy Davis", which is basically Abbott running against Obama.  Every shot, dark image of Obama with Wendy, some just pasted in.  Apparently she hasn't taken enough pictures with Obama for a 30 second ad.

    I can't find it online, but this is one of the pitfalls of living in Texas, the ads are so visceral, even Davis' ads are turning me off.

    The mentality of anyone responding to these ads just freaks me out.  They are the video versions of Uncle Chips post, short on substance and full of innuendo and just rancid partisan doom and gloom.


    Pffft (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:55:25 PM EST
    The mentality of anyone responding to these ads just freaks me out.  They are the video versions of Uncle Chips post, short on substance and full of innuendo and just rancid partisan doom and gloom.

    It's the same here.  I really think the dems are on to something as far as forgetting about ads, really, when was the last time someone's mind was actually changed by an ad, and putting it into get out the vote.

    One thing that cracks me up is, and the seem to do this a lot, to take all the money "whoever" put into buying ad time on a particular show and lumping it all together.  Running the same ad two or even three times one after the other.


    He's gonna lose (none / 0) (#167)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:34:00 PM EST
    These last few states are going (5.00 / 3) (#171)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:43:05 PM EST
    to be the sweetest.  From a purely schadenfreude place.  TX, Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas ......

    Ahhhhhhhhhhhh.......southern comfort.


    What's interesting (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:44:29 PM EST
    Is that he and his wife did not have children for many years until they adopted a girl.  Should they not have been considered "married" then?

    In a way (none / 0) (#163)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:27:34 PM EST
    I have to wonder if George W. Bush's gay bashing back in 2004 actually hurry this kind of stuff along much faster than it would have normally. You know, unintended consequences and all that.

    Could be. (none / 0) (#197)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 07:08:26 PM EST
    But personally, I believe that the real turning point in the struggle for marriage equality was the electoral battle over California's Proposition 8 in 2008, during which the LGBT community was able to rally significant statewide support from non-gay voters in opposition to the ballot measure.

    While Prop. 8 passed, it did so by a surprisingly narrow 51-48% margin, which ultimately proved to be a costly Pyrrhic victory for the political right. That campaign, and the subsequent federal trial over the ballot measure's constitutionality, actually opened a lot of people's eyes. For the first time, a majority of Californians finally began to understand the extraordinary lengths to which certain mean-spirited elements were going in an effort to impose their will upon others.

    Many people -- including members of my own family -- began to quietly but seriously reconsider their own opposition to same-sex marriage, as perhaps overly reflexive on their part and somewhat illogical in general practice. And once people actually started to think for themselves, it wasn't long before we saw public opinion begin to flip quickly and decisively not only on marriage equality, but on the issue of LGBT civil rights generally.

    Had not U.S. Judge Vaughn Walker voided Prop. 8 as unconstitutional, I believe that Californians would've likely repealed it themselves this year at the ballot box.



    Many have been disappointed (5.00 / 2) (#195)
    by KeysDan on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 06:31:39 PM EST
    by changes made in the draft report of the Vatican Synod on the Family.  Specifically, changes made in the English language translation of the official Italian version of last Monday to the revised English translation later in the week.

    he first translation of the question "are we capable of welcoming these persons, guaranteeing them a space of fraternity in our community?" became, "are we capable of providing for these people, guaranteeing them a place of fellowship in our community?"

    The theologian, Massimo Faggioli (sic) exclaimed that he was an Italian and that is not a translation, it is a falsification.  The Italian "accogliere" is welcoming, not, "providing for."  Other revised translations involve such words as "these people" providing "precious" support to sick partners, to "valuable" support.

    But, there is no need for total despair.  After all, many other aspects of the provisional report remain that must seem as dynamite just waiting to blow the old cardinals out of their velvet slippers. So it  is well to keep in mind that of the several languages of the report, only the English version was changed. And, the Italian version is the one that counts.  So, maybe, gay men and women can learn a new language--Spanish, French or Italian, and worship in that language.  

    Moreover, the important Cardinal Gerhard Muller, Prefect of the 'Holy Office' (a spot occupied at one time by Cardinal Ratzinger, later Pope Benedict) seems to have been squeezed, sending a spokesman out on his behalf (he couldn't bring himself to do it) to debunk his alleged quote that the Monday document was "unworthy, shameful and wrong."  
    The word-smithing may seem trivial, but when centuries are spent debating the number of angels that can occupy the head of a pin, this is, as Biden might say, "a f--g big deal."  

    "Providing for" suggests a need for pastoral care, helping those people to overcome sin. Providing for, is like feeding a stray cat; welcoming is taking the kitty in. "Precious" is different that valuable, as those old cardinals and bishops should know every time they look at the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel by the gay Michelangelo; valuable would be a fresh paint job of Benjamin Moore's HC 200 Beige Glow.  

    The real dilemma for the Synod is if too much nice is said about "those people" and their relationships, the faithful/flock will start to ask unwanted questions, such as: why bother with these teachings?  

    The Pope has added a couple of major critics to massage the final document due this Sunday.  Maybe, getting them involved may help in the de-ossification process.  And, then it goes out for a year for comment.  A slow process, but the Pope has a tiger by the tail with all those intrenched
    appointees of previous Popes.

    As the joke goes, the Pope better hope that his food tasters do not call-in sick.  Slow, but, it will happen and still there will be controversy: Pope Benedict, in 2008, had to cancel a speech at the La Sapienza University in Rome, due to protests by students in sciences for his disagreement with the vindication of Galileo by John Paul II for his precious physics of 1633.

    a sensible middle ground might possibly exist (3.50 / 2) (#128)
    by Reconstructionist on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:17:08 PM EST

      If this wasn't in fact deadly serious, it would be amusing listening to you folks.

      Many seemed determined to  frame this as a dichotomy between panicky overreaction fomented by politically  motivated fear mongering as one alternative and the only other as passively and unquestioningly  trusting the government and scientists, and especially the government scientists, not to make any errors that can have fatal consequences.

      I guess the latter is the "smart" way to go when you start from the premise  those are the only two choices, because we all know the government and scientists have never before gotten anything wrong that resulted in preventable harms.


    Regrets that so many of (5.00 / 4) (#140)
    by KeysDan on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:47:25 PM EST
    the commenters have missed the mark, since it surely was our intention to amuse you.  And, certainly, it must be that we see Ebola as amusing material, not a serious matter, as apparently,  you seem to believe only you do.

    The fatal flaw in your comment is that you confuse many thoughtful TL commenters with those you may be more familiar with--right wingers. Those whose strength is stenography rather than independent analysis.   However, you have succeeded where you claim others here have not:  it is amusing listening to you.


    Yeah, that must be it. (2.75 / 4) (#150)
    by Reconstructionist on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:02:50 PM EST
     I'm  just confused because I just ain't got all your smarts.

     I guess I'll have to defer to such a big time brainiac and concede the world is likewise divided into dichotomous groups. Thoughtful people who correlate perfectly with those who just coincidentally share your biases and prejudices and those who disagree with you who can obviously only be parroting right wing talking point for nefarious purposes.



    You seem smart enough. (5.00 / 5) (#152)
    by KeysDan on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:11:13 PM EST
    You do admit you are confused. That's a start.

    One death and two infections directly (5.00 / 3) (#142)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:51:32 PM EST
    related to that death are not a cause for panic.  It doesn't call for "breaking news" coverage of a patient being transported to a new facility, or helicopters following the ambulance to the airport.  That is an over-reaction that is helping to feed the panic, and I find that just unconscionable, really.  

    I don't find this to be a political event at all, though the same folks that used to scream "BENGHAZI!!!" are now screaming "EBOLA!!!"  Isn't it fair to call out those who are making wild and baseless accusations that this is part of an evil Obama plan for Ebola to take root here?  How does anyone with a brain let that kind of garbage go unanswered?

    I can't speak for anyone else, I just know that as I do with a lot of things that appear in the news, I've been fact-checking and filling in the gaps in what we're being told.

    You really should not conflate what the media is telling people, with any actions or directions by the CDC.  As I mentioned in another comment, how do you blame the CDC for basing their response to Dallas on what we now know was a bunch of CYA lies told so as not to look bad and have people streaming to the hospital exits.  Don't hospitals have people whose job it is to oversee infection control all over the facility?  If I can sit down at a computer and find information about infection control protocols, how is it possible someone in a Dallas hospital can't obtain and apply those same protocols?

    If I blame the CDC for anything, it is for not correctly assessing the ability of the US health system to deal with such a serious situation.  We can all thank the God of our choice that so far, it appears that while people have gone to other hospitals fearing they might have the virus, the Texas hospital is the only one where actual infection has shown up.  And God willing, the two nurses will recover and that will be the last we will see of Ebola.

    Ebola isn't anything new.  This isn't something that had never been seen before and no one knew what it was or how to deal with it.  It's been studied extensively, researched for years, and efforts to develop a vaccine ongoing.  And after years and years of experience and study, it's a little hard for laypeople to make the case that now, all of a sudden, the government and scientists and doctors and infectious disease specialists could be wrong and WE'RE ALL GONNA DIIIIIIIIIE!!!  


      That final paragraph is world class.  A parodist could not outdo it.

    It's not only new threats that can cause harm.

      Diseases that not only have been studied far longer and for which we have not only treatments with much greater success rates but even vaccines kill people with some frequency.

      I don't think anyone who doesn't religious-like blind faith has ever doubted that government and scientists, including infectious disease specialists can be wrong. There is nothing "sudden" about this  about this realization.

      Nobody is screaming "we're all going to die."
    That's just your silly straw man. "Thoughtful" people are though thinking that just maybe the status quo is proving inadequate and that measures that save lives are good things even if the lives saved don't number in tens of thousands.


    Oh, really. (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 05:22:03 PM EST
    Reconstructionist: "Diseases that not only have been studied far longer and for which we have not only treatments with much greater success rates but even vaccines kill people with some frequency."

    Would you care to translate that gibberish into actual English?


    If that is intended as serious (1.50 / 2) (#193)
    by Reconstructionist on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 06:16:25 PM EST
    You havr no business joining the discussion. No one rven slightly infotmrd could possibly be unaea re that many people die from communicable diseases  for which we have treatments with much greter success tates and evrn vaccinrs. If this is nrws to you, I do not know how you could be so isolated ftom knowlefge.

    Very well done (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by sj on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 06:23:14 PM EST
    Your spelling now suits the level of insight you are bringing to the table.

    Add that to your handle which accurately represents your penchant for reinventing what others have said in order to deliver your loftily disdainful responses.

    You are in danger of becoming a caricature of yourself.

    Or maybe you view your interactions with others as performance art. You wouldn't be the first I suppose...


    What sj just said. (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 07:40:53 PM EST
    It's very hard to take you seriously, when you're becoming your own best parody.

    Take a close look at the paragraph I cited in my comment, and read it again. Do you realize that you're claiming that "even vaccines kill people with some frequency"?

    Really -- vaccines kill people with some frequency? Now, I'll grant to you that it's probably not what you intended to say. But nevertheless, that's exactly what you wrote. Verbatim.

    Grammar is your friend. It gives others the opportunity to understand and comprehend the points you're attempting to make. To that end, you need to take your time, think about what you're trying to say, and then write it clearly.

    For the record, here's what I believe you were trying to say, had you used proper grammar:

    "Diseases that have been studied for a long time still kill people with some frequency, even though we have vaccines to treat them with much greater success rates."

    Big difference. Aloha.


    So (none / 0) (#159)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:18:21 PM EST
    is your point a travel ban?  

    Not a "ban" (none / 0) (#161)
    by Reconstructionist on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:22:44 PM EST
      But, I certainly would not dismiss the prudence of limitations out of hand as only being the product of fevered minds.

    You mean, like the "fevered minds" that (5.00 / 2) (#165)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:32:35 PM EST
    have a woman quarantined on a cruise ship because she worked in the lab at Texas Presbyterian that tested Duncan's blood 19 days ago - and the cruise ship isn't being allowed to dock anywhere?

    Those kinds of fevered minds?

    You want to tell me this isn't a case of the we're-all-gonna-die overreaction to this situation?


    Yeah we should sanction Belize and Mexico. (none / 0) (#170)
    by Reconstructionist on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:42:27 PM EST
     How dare those backward people refuse to open their borders to anyone who wants to enter. When the government of the USA wants something they have no right to make decisions for themselves that they believe are in the best interest of their citizens.

       On the other hand, by your own logic, the only thing the passengers are being subjected to is the inconvenience of having to wait until the ship reaches Galveston to disembark. Obviously they can't be incurring any additional risk of harm, can they?


    Recon, you started out quite well (none / 0) (#200)
    by fishcamp on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:00:35 PM EST
    when you arrived in this very tricky and serious blog, but by attacking two of TL's brightest thinkers you have suddenly become toast, self burned toast.  Most of us have made flawed or mistaken statements here, but we manage to snap out of it.  Maybe if you take a break and come back again your ideas will be more appreciated, some of which seem good.  :)

    CDC Doubletalk (2.00 / 2) (#36)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 07:56:28 AM EST
    Frieden was asked during a press conference if you could contract Ebola by sitting next to someone on a bus. Frieden answered:

    "I think there are two different parts of that equation. The first is, if you're a member of the traveling public and are healthy, should you be worried that you might have gotten it by sitting next to someone? And the answer is no.

    "Second, if you are sick and you may have Ebola, should you get on a bus? And the answer to that is also no. You might become ill, you might have a problem that exposes someone around you."

    So which is it, Tom???

    I think the only thing that's spreading like (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:15:14 AM EST
    wildfire is the stupidity...and yes, I'm looking at you.

    People who are sick and may have Ebola should not be exposing others to the risk.  Is the risk one of proximity alone?  No - it's in the possibility that you could have an onset of projectile vomiting, or diarrhea or begin bleeding and put others in contact with virus-laden body fluids.  Because that's how Ebola is transmitted.

    Frieden's not talking out of both sides of his mouth - he's addressing the issue of public travel from two perspectives: that of the person who is not sick and has none of the risk factors for Ebola (Group A), and that of the person who is sick and may have the virus(Group B).  

    Group B should not be exposing people in Group A to the risk of contracting the virus.

    Still waiting for you to explain how it is that none of the people who were in Duncan's apartment have gotten sick, the paramedics who brought him to the hospital are not sick, nor is anyone else from the ER.  

    We don't have a budding epidemic here (other than of the stupid), but what we do have is clear evidence that this is an infection that is best treated by actual experts in designated hospitals.  It's really too bad that the Texas hospital handled this so badly - it's made already-fearful people even more afraid, and less likely to trust that going to the hospital is the best thing to do if they get sick.


    And we are going to waste a ton of money on (5.00 / 4) (#81)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 11:02:10 AM EST
    the wrong things (closing schools, borders, etc)  instead of just sending money to the WHO to use to get a handle on the problem in Africa.

    What was Charlie Pierce's book, Nation of Idiots? Very true.


    So are you (2.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 10:40:15 AM EST
    Frieden's official interpreter and apologist??

    BTW after our discussion yesterday about the inadequacy of the CDC's PPE protocol particularly leaving the hair and neck exposed, I was listening to the news and heard that effective yesterday the CDC is requiring that all PPEs for Ebola now provide covering for the hair and neck. You may not be listening but the CDC apparently is.

    The next thing they need to do is require all medical personnel learning the meaning of the word "quarantine" and how to count to 21.


    Dallas Hospital Director Speaks Out


    So, how long will you be in quarantine? (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 11:02:51 AM EST
    Until 21 days after the last American might, possibly, could have, you-never-know, been in a 10-mile radius from someone with a fever?  Gonna be a long flu season for you, I guess.

    Considering that Duncan was already exhibiting symptoms the first time he went to the hospital and the hospital completely dropped the ball and didn't test him until he came back several days later with even worse symptoms, it doesn't surprise me that the nurse was infected before he was officially diagnosed.


    Sanjay Gupta and chocolate sauce (2.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 11:58:46 AM EST
    Sanjay Gupta uses chocolate sauce to show how easy it is to become infected even when following CDC PPE guidelines

    Don't worry -- there's enough blame to go around for the hospital and the CDC.


    And it's even easier when you don't (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 12:28:00 PM EST
    wear any PPE at all, isn't it?  Which is believed to be the case with the first nurse who came down with the virus.

    But Gupta's demonstration of what are considered to be breaches of protocol (meaning that the material one is trying to protect one's self from "breaches" the barrier of the protocol being used) shows why in Africa, where we're not talking about 1 infected person, or even 3, but hundreds, there is a buddy system in place for both putting on and taking off PPE (and I hope you realize that the man seen on the tarmac without PPE was the designated safety officer, there to assure that no one in PPE was exhibiting any breaches, since those wearing the PPE have less ability to see and move about).  And because health care workers in Africa are not seeing patients in the same kinds of controlled environments as we are supposed to have here, and can and do encounter infected people in all kinds of places, those wearing PPE are hosed off with disinfectant spray and gloves are washed before any equipment is removed by another individual.

    I do not believe the CDC is an incompetent agency staffed by equally incompetent people.  I believe that CDC overestimated the ability of our health care system to handle an Ebola or Ebola-type infection.  It pains me to observe that what happened in Texas may have exposed our hospital system as vulnerable to the introduction of biologic materials for purposes of starting an epidemic.  I know that sounds like the musing of a Rush Limbaugh-type, but I don't think we can be cavalier about where our vulnerabilities are.

    I hope it all ends with the recovery of the two nurses, and that no more new cases are identified.  The people in Duncan's apartment will come out of quarantine on Sunday, I believe, but it does bode well that 19 days in, none of them are showing any signs of infection.


    I also hope it ends (2.00 / 1) (#156)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:15:59 PM EST
    with the two nurses.

    But they are now reporting that a civilian DOD employee who was in Liberia 14 days ago got sick on a DC bus and started throwing up just as she got off.

    The woman is now in a DC hospital undergoing evaluation.

    The bus was later pulled out of service and passengers were told to self evaluate their health.

    Nothing to see here folks, just move along.


    My biggest concern (none / 0) (#188)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 05:15:35 PM EST
    at this point is not Ebola but the politics of Ebola. Politicians and their hacks want to milk it for tax dollars and political power.

    The appointment of an Ebola Czar will only serve to guarantee a steady flow of Ebola cases from West Africa to justify his job and bureaucracy he would build.

    Just cut off travel from West Africa Ebola hot spots and this whole episode ends in a month -- and that does not require a Czar.


    Yes and yes and yes (1.00 / 1) (#196)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 06:48:35 PM EST
    And the woman lied... heaven knows why.

    House Hearing (none / 0) (#184)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 04:47:02 PM EST
    I'll agree with you that there are a lot of good professionals at the CDC but it has been taken over by political hacks driving an agenda contrary to the agency's mission and the medical profession that it is supposed to be serving as demonstrated by this painful exchange with

    CDC Director Frieden at the House Hearing

    He's clearly suffering from the Cat Got His Tongue Disease.

    Would his evasiveness inspire confidence in anything that came him or the CDC right now???


    Travel ban inevitable IMO (none / 0) (#1)
    by labrat on Thu Oct 16, 2014 at 05:39:59 PM EST
    the public will demand it.

    On a personal level, 10% of Ebola victims are healthcare workers that relied on CDC/WHO "facts" and recommendations. I've never been much of a germaphobe, but I'm not too happy with those odds.

    Relying on recommendations ... (none / 0) (#26)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:10:46 AM EST
    ... and actually following them to the letter are not necessarily one and the same thing.

    if the experts.... (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by labrat on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 04:22:28 AM EST
    Kent Brantly and Nancy Writbol were what one would consider experienced "experts" that were said to have been "meticulous" about their technique. The nurses in Dallas were told Ebola was "hard to catch" and that "standard droplet precautions" would protect them. There's a clear disconnect between the images of Hazmat suited workers disinfecting every possible nook and cranny an Ebola victim could have possibly been near and the "you can't get it sitting on a bus" message. NO?
    As a laboratorian, I'm concerned. CDC handles Ebola in a level 4 biohazard laboratory and then claims laboratorians in clinical labs can safely handle specimens using standard bloodborne pathogen precautions. Really? We don't have space suits.

    and 30 seconds after writing this... (1.00 / 1) (#32)
    by labrat on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 04:27:42 AM EST
    I find out a lab worker with Ebola symptoms is stuck on a cruise ship off Belize. SMH

    Link? (none / 0) (#37)
    by Angel on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 08:16:14 AM EST
    I read that the person was NOT showing symptoms but was isolating himself with his travel companion because he fell within the 21-day contact period.  

    Here's my link. And it's a woman,not a man. (none / 0) (#38)
    by Angel on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 08:17:46 AM EST
    Belize Said, No Way... (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 08:42:19 AM EST
    ...and I have been to that airport, it's tiny, go out on the tarmac to board a plane.  But good for them, it's spreading, not rapidly, but this lackadaisical attitude is getting on my nerves.

    Isolation and no travel for people who came into contact with an infected person until they figure out how it's spreading.  And not mimic right wing talking points, but the CDC is seriously dropping the ball.

    I am not at all comfortable with what they are saying versus what I see them wearing to handle Ebola patients.  Either they lying or they don't even trust their own protocols enough to follow them when their lives are on the line.

    They are telling us it spread in similar ways that HIV does, yet I see these bio-hazard suits nothing like the ones they recommend for everyone else.  

    Someone needs to explain why their employees aren't following their own guidelines.


    We already know how Ebola is spread: (none / 0) (#60)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:38:20 AM EST
    direct contact with the body fluids of an infected person who is symptomatic.

    That is what They Are Saying... (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 11:15:16 AM EST
    ...yet they don't know how the people who actually have it, got it.  

    They are taking precautions that go well beyond what they are stating, why is that, why do every time I see a CDC employee on the TV they are in gear that exceeds the requirements they put out which if I am not mistaken, include breathers that are filtering the air.

    It doesn't make sense.

    Why the discrepancy, why they tracking people down on the plane that sat nowhere near the person, why are they having nurses sitting at home who came in contact if they believe the only way to contract is through bodily fluids.

    If they are being overtly cautious, say so, don't leave us to assume that is what is going on.  Because that is what you are doing, assuming they are doing to for this reason, fine, but quit telling people one thing and doing another without any word as to why.

    That is not helping anyone.

    To be clear, I am not saying it can be transmitted any other way than stated, my problem is the precautions they are taking do not coincide with what they say, at all.  And it would be nice, if they figured out how those two people got it, why and how did they come into contact with fluids from the deceased.

    That would be helpful, telling us it can only be transmitted one way, then in the same breathe state they are tracking down every passenger on the same flight without any reason as to why is fueling the fire.

    They know they screwed up, they admitted more than once, and now we need a Czar to do what the CDC should be doing, again, fueling the fire, instead of being forthright and putting out flames.


    And saliva and nasal/throat secretions (none / 0) (#89)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 11:18:08 AM EST
    are bodily fluids that can be expelled by sneezing and coughing.

    In terms of exposure to blood and body fluids, semen and vaginal secretions with visible blood should be considered potentially infectious vehicles. Similarly, cerebrospinal fluid, amniotic fluid, pleural fluid, synovial fluid, and peritoneal and pericardial fluids carry a high suspicion of transmission risk. In contrast, unless blood is present, saliva, sputum,....carry a low risk of transmission  


    The two qualifiers are "if blood is present" and "low risk."

    We know that Ebola is a virus. We know that bleeding is involved. So there is a distinct probability that a sneeze or cough could have blood mixed in the saliva/sputum.

    As to "low risk"..... how low is low?


    Coming Attractions (none / 0) (#2)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Oct 16, 2014 at 06:40:47 PM EST
    You knew it was coming:

    CDC Will Now Be Tracking Fliers On Ebola Nurse Amber Vinson's First Flight

    Dr. Chris Braden of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said at a Thursday afternoon briefing, citing new information developed by investigators tracing all of Vinson's contacts.

    "This new information is saying we need to go back now to the flight she took on Friday the 10th and include them in our investigation of contacts."

    Ebola-stricken nurse Amber Vinson may have had symptoms almost a week ago - BEFORE she left Dallas for Ohio, went bridesmaid dress shopping, and flew BACK to Texas

    O.M.G.! That's terrifying! (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 16, 2014 at 07:14:13 PM EST
    I'm never leaving my house again . . .

    Clearly, (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Zorba on Thu Oct 16, 2014 at 08:03:52 PM EST
    we should all seal our houses up completely and not emerge for any reason whatsoever for at least the next six months.
    Hope you have enough food to last!

    This is the moment when all TL (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 16, 2014 at 08:13:33 PM EST
    commenters head to your place. Do you have a good supply of retsina?

    No, I actually don't like retsina (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by Zorba on Thu Oct 16, 2014 at 08:52:01 PM EST
    But we have plenty of Metaxa, other booze, wine, and Mr. Zorba knows how to make both beer and mead.  Bring your own retsina.
    Plus we do have a lot of food.
    When the Ebola (or otherwise) Apocalypse comes, though, if you're here, you will be expected to help out in the garden, help in preserving food, and in hunting and fishing.  How good are you with a rifle, shot gun, bow and arrow, and/or a fishing rod?   ;-)

    Don't you need someone to (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 16, 2014 at 09:30:29 PM EST
    play the piano?  I did take archery as an elective during mandatory college gym class!

    No piano (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Zorba on Thu Oct 16, 2014 at 10:12:11 PM EST
    There is an old acoustic guitar and a violin kicking around here some place, though.
    And a compound hunting bow is a bit different from the bows you probably used in archery class, but you'll adjust.

    I got two trophies for golf in a high school (none / 0) (#11)
    by ZtoA on Thu Oct 16, 2014 at 09:43:28 PM EST
    gym class. One for the "most putts" and the "booby prize" because my first drive, ever, sent the ball out of the park and into the back of a moving garbage truck. So that could be of use in the "unintentional hunting" department - but humans, stand back!

    Seriously tho, the protocols for health care workers dealing with this virus can and will improve over time and with more experience. I can understand some people being nervous a bit. I've listened to a few people say they are concerned and have listened to them.

    But panic is NOT in order for us, the general public.


    No piano, oculus! (none / 0) (#29)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:00:29 AM EST
    The last time you made that offer, I ended up having to close the bar three hours early that night.

    I would probably do the least amount of damage (5.00 / 4) (#12)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 16, 2014 at 09:51:39 PM EST
    with a fishing rod. ;-)

    Since too many cooks in the kitchen is not a good thing, I could possibly help Mr. Z make the wine and mead.


    I could help you, MO, or Mr Z or Ms Z (none / 0) (#14)
    by ZtoA on Thu Oct 16, 2014 at 10:08:04 PM EST
    do prep. I am not bad at cleaning up too. I did a stint as a "chamber maid" so I can list that on my Ms Z 'want a job' resume.

    And since I do like a party I will be there. Not afraid of a plague tho.


    I gots Rox "The Varmint Hunter" (5.00 / 4) (#16)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 16, 2014 at 10:13:41 PM EST
    She'll be more than happy to help out protection' the crops . . And I can bring starter from the land of sourdough :)

    Starter from the land of sourdough (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 16, 2014 at 10:20:30 PM EST
    is a rare and valuable contribution.

    We will have to design a special Coat of Arms for Rox "The Varmint Hunter."


    I can do the Coat of Arms! (none / 0) (#43)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 08:56:57 AM EST
    Not much good at the other job listings so far.

    Also (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:36:27 AM EST
    you could compete with nystray for the position of

    Master of the Hounds.


    I could paint your portrait(s) (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by ZtoA on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 12:00:48 PM EST
    It is possible that you could become (none / 0) (#54)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:34:31 AM EST
    Master of The Shepherd Pie.

    Of course with a couple of very good cooks already on board, your initial product would have to pass a critical review before being granted the title. ;-D


    Ha (none / 0) (#62)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:40:03 AM EST
    i would be worried about competing for "cook" with this crowd

    Oh no (5.00 / 4) (#65)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:46:13 AM EST
    my suggestion was not that you compete for Master of the Kitchen. Mrs. Z would rightfully get that honor.

    You could only vie for the Master of the Shepherd Pie title. A nice honor, if granted,  but several ranks down from Master of the kitchen.


    If you make your (none / 0) (#61)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:38:54 AM EST
    shepherds pie once in awhile, that would be good.
    Plus, anyone can garden.  We'll teach you how to tell a weed from a plant you want.

    I am actually pretty darn good in the (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by caseyOR on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 12:22:27 PM EST
    garden. And an excellent prep cook. Also, a former professional dishwasher. :-)

    An added bonus- I make an excellent cup (or pot) of coffee.

    When the coming Apocalypse, ebola or zombie, hits, I am heading straight for the Republic of Zorba.

    Maybe I should go buy a sleeping bag.


    Casey, you and kdog (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 12:49:59 PM EST
    And the other members of the old pirate crew already have long-standing invitations to come up here.  
    You guys get first call on the comfier areas of the barn for your accommodations.    ;-)

    Thank you, Zorba. (5.00 / 4) (#115)
    by caseyOR on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 01:11:00 PM EST
    Getting the pick of the barn accommodations is great news. My aging and arthritic back will need a deep pile of hay spread beneath my sleeping bag.

    By the way, when my sister died I inherited her cat. She is a sweet, though reserved, kitty. No good as a mouser because the people who had her before my sister, and who dumped her in the shelter from which my sister rescued her, had the poor kitty 4-paw declawed. So, she lives indoors 24/7. I could not bear to leave her when I head to Republic of Zorba. Perhaps I could contract a pen of some sort for her in my little place in the barn.


    I'm glad that you have a standing invite (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 01:53:15 PM EST
    To the Republic of Zorba.

    An excellent pot (definitely a pot) of coffee is something of great worth. Sorry stray it even beats out starter from the land of sourdough in my book.


    No apologies necessary! (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 01:59:41 PM EST
    Need an excellent pot of coffee to get anything going! And since The Land of Sourdough also contains quite a bit of excellent coffee, it's nice to know that's covered. :D

    Done (none / 0) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:40:48 AM EST
    I Like Telling People What to Do... (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:11:47 AM EST
    ...will that get me in the door, if not I have a generator and an absinthe fountain.

    Probably wouldn't work (none / 0) (#58)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:36:37 AM EST
    Mr. Zorba and I are the ones who get to tell people what to do on our farm.    ;-)
    We have a generator, but another one wouldn't hurt, so you may join the trek up here.

    Bring the absinthe fountain. Isn't that on (none / 0) (#75)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 10:34:05 AM EST
    the disaster-preparedness list?!!!!

    Mr. Angel and I could shoot and fish, and of (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by Angel on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:45:05 AM EST
    course bring along our large wine collection.  We've always said that we want to drink it all before we die so why not share it with the TL Ebola Apocalypse crowd?

    Count me in Zorba since (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by fishcamp on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 10:13:01 AM EST
    I have several guns in many calibers, way too many fishing rods, lures, feathered attractors, literally miles of line and leader, ranging from 2 lb. to 130 lb., boat, trailer, 4 wheel drive, camping gear, night vision goggles, generator, and Blackie the cat, who is the fastest Iguana slayer in Florida.  We also need shooter, that guy was in combat for three years and we need him on perimeter surveillance.  I'm sure he has weapons as well.  But, can I help with the Tzatziki?

    We are going to (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 12:58:40 PM EST
    have to acquire a dairy cow or two for the milk.  I can make the yogurt for tzatziki if I have the milk.
    Plus maybe some chickens, for eggs, and chicken meat, of course.
    I have a number of neighbors who would be happy to sell us chickens, cows, and lambs.  There are wild turkeys, so turkey meat is no problem.
    I hope everyone likes venison, because there are more deer here than I can even begin to count, and we have plenty of venison.
    You and Mr. Zorba would have to sneak off and travel a little bit to get the fish.  Our little stream doesn't have many, but a larger creek with fish is not very far away.  Rivers are a bit farther, but not all that far.  

    I'll work on perfecting my (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 01:53:30 PM EST
    sourdough pizza :D Everything from scratch of course, including the homegrown sauce and Italian sausage ;) (yes, I'm hungry!) Just fed the starter again, so should be ready for some batches of bread and pizza in the next 24 . . .

    I'll forgive you (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:06:51 PM EST
    for being a San Francisco Giants fan, stray, as long as you bring the sourdough starter.    ;-)
    I'll have to figure out how to make Italian sausage from venison.  It shouldn't be a problem.  The sauce is no problem.
    Cheese might be, but if we have milk, we can figure out how to make cheese.  I know how to make yogurt, and yogurt cheese, so the next step up shouldn't be too difficult.

    I can do Ricotta and Mozzarella (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:23:05 PM EST
    need to learn about Pecorino and Parm . . .  hmmmm . . . . Or I could just bring a couple of big wheels :D

    Herb yogurt cheese . . YUM!


    Well, we do have (none / 0) (#146)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:57:06 PM EST
    a variety of herbs in the garden.
    I think that we will need to acquire a supply of rennet for the harder cheeses.
    But, if I get some lambs, we can produce our own from their stomachs.
    Plus, there are microbial and vegetable rennets.
    Your task, stray, if you choose to accept it, is to research the acquisition of rennet and the process of cheese-making.    ;-)

    I Would Love to Get a Peak... (none / 0) (#133)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:36:35 PM EST
    ...at that recipe.

    I have been making pizzas for a year or two and I while I make a mean thin crust, but I am falling flat with other crusts.  I like crunchy, but not too much, which is what keeps happening.

    I make homemade pasta all the time and I am starting to think 00 flour might be holding me back, but it's so good in the pasta.


    Here's question about homemade pizza (none / 0) (#135)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:42:10 PM EST
    I don't make the dough from homemade, but we have an awesome Italian store across the street (appropriately named "The Italian Store").  I buy their dough.

    I have tried rolling and rolling the dough out, but can never get a circle.  And since I never worked in a pizza shop, I'm not about to attempt at twirling and throwing the dough all over the place. Any advice?

    [I came in too late from work on Monday to start with a whole pizza and had dough I had thawed and had to use.  So I just flattened it out, sliced it into long slices, melted a little butter with garlic powder and rosemary and spread it on the dough, and slapped them on my George Foreman grill for about 5-6 minutes.  Nice warm garlic bread and very little mess!]


    JB (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:57:13 PM EST
    I am not kidding when I say this thing is a fricken miracle.
    Someone told me about and I was like whatever, but ordered one just to try it out because, like you, I couldn't roll a circle to save my life.  Insanely easy and I have never not made a perfect circle with it.

    I messed with spinning the dough, but I keep reading that is not a good way to make a pizza crust, something about the glutton and stretching it versus rolling it.


    Do it like a pie crust (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:59:48 PM EST
    roll from center, 1/4 turn, roll from center and just keep going. That said, nothing wrong with a square pizza! A little shop around the corner from me in Brooklyn had a great pizza called "Grandma's Pizza" and it was square :D I basically just try and get it round enough for my cast iron (haven't replaced my pizza stone . . . ) and don't worry abut shape beyond that. My biggie is making sure the crust is thin enough. Also, make sure your dough is chilled before rolling. You could prob thaw in the fridge, if you aren't already :)

    If you do make dough, for individual pizzas I divide the dough into quarters and freeze. They thaw super quick and I can make 4 10" thin crusts with one batch. Real handy when you're hungry. I freeze my sauce in small batches also so I have it for the little pizzas.


    In my experience, (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 04:01:28 PM EST
    rolling only gets you so far.
    You don't have to twirl and throw the dough up in the air.  But what I do is work with it with my hands.  I pat it and stretch it little by little, including getting my hands underneath it.  This is not a magic thing, but since I had some experience watching and helping my great-grandmother making home-made phyllo, which involves a lot of patient hand stretching, maybe I am more used to the idea of hand stretching.
    The pizza dough wants to keep contracting, but if you keep at it, you can dominate it.   ;-)

    I generally end up with my hands on it :P (none / 0) (#183)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 04:44:24 PM EST
    I start rolling, but it's easier to use my hands to get it the way I want. The dough contracts less when it's been chilled, ime. Either that, or I've just gotten used to it, lol!~

    If you want to really (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 04:59:35 PM EST
    learn about using your hands to stretch dough, Stray, just try making homemade phyllo dough.  Way, way more stretching involved than with pizza dough.  To the extent that I have long ago given up making phyllo, and I just buy it.
    Okay when I was younger, but I no longer have the patience for homemade phyllo.  Which, I must admit, is way, way better than the store bought kind.  Homemade is thicker, but it's also better.

    Oh for dinner at Three Brothers in Milwaukee (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by Palli on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 05:35:52 PM EST
    The matriarch of the family was always in the kitchen in a rocking chair rolling phlo.  I really miss it.

    I looked into doing it once (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 05:47:30 PM EST
    but it looked beyond me (same with puff pastry). I just googled again and saw one where they use a pasta roller, hmmmm . . .  

    Ya know though, if I had someone work with me the first time around, it looks kinda therapeutic . . .


    I can do dishes (5.00 / 5) (#104)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 12:06:11 PM EST
    Manual Labor for me... (5.00 / 3) (#107)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 12:26:04 PM EST
    I may be skinny but I'm strong!!!

    And official colony cigarette/joint roller.


    As I said previously, Dog (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    You and Casey and the pirate crew already have a standing invitation.
    And {ahem}, bring some seeds of the correct variety, if you have them.  We have 40 acres of woods in which to hide, shall I say, government unapproved crops.  ;-)

    I can see it now - the painting is just (none / 0) (#125)
    by ZtoA on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:09:10 PM EST
    painting itself. Looks like a party.

    Is the elfish looking... (none / 0) (#127)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:15:37 PM EST
    lady in the bottom left corner smokin' a blunt?  Looks like a helluva party!

    Kdog, Hmm, she's probably doing something fun (none / 0) (#134)
    by ZtoA on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:41:33 PM EST
    and she has a peacock feather stuck in her cap.

    I'm pretty good on the food front . . . (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 16, 2014 at 08:18:45 PM EST
    but I should perhaps add some more flour to the pantry as that won't last 6mos . . . gotta have my sourdough and pasta!

    We only have enough to get through the storm! (none / 0) (#27)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:24:09 AM EST
    Zorba: "Clearly, we should all seal our houses up completely and not emerge for any reason whatsoever for at least the next six months. Hope you have enough food to last!"

    OMG! What are we going to do after this weekend?


    Unless her bridesmaid dress shopping went (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 16, 2014 at 07:46:47 PM EST
    like that shopping trip in the movie "Bridesmaids", with bodily fluids all over the place, I don't think there is cause for alarm.

    Good idea to check though, I suppose it can't hurt.


    Did you see they closed a school (none / 0) (#70)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:57:18 AM EST
    because some teachers daughters cousins friend was in the room with her?



    I almost could not believe they did that. (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 10:53:50 AM EST
    There was a container/cargo ship that arrived from Africa into the port of Baltimore to take on cargo and that the longshoremen initially refused to load because of EBOLA!!!!!!!!!  

    The real problem is that people are getting their "information" from the media, which has, in my opinion, not done a very good job of educating the public (golly, why start now?).  Their promos and intros are sensationalized and overly-dramatic, which gets people so nervous they don't seem to be able to hear anything that follows.

    On top of that, you have the usual suspects - the right-wing media outlets and talking heads - highlighting aspects of the research to make the virus seem even more deadly and dangerous and contagious than it is.

    It's embarrassing, really, that in a country that prides itself on state-of-the-art health care, we're allowing the media, with no expertise or specialized training and education, to drive the way people are thinking about Ebola and inciting unnecessarily panicky decisions and handling.  They have more or less forced the CDC to over-prepare and place more burdens on hospital and health care settings than they are equipped to handle.  

    It's really kind of ticking me off, actually.


    It is an illogical consequence (5.00 / 4) (#119)
    by KeysDan on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 01:44:28 PM EST
    of the hysterical reporting and political capture of a serious, but manageable public health problem.  Close schools, stop public transportation,  trade in queen sized bed for kings for more hiding room, and mandate pharmacists to report all sales of thermometers to the police.  Just a few of the necessary steps to keep the USA safe.  Doubt and criticize the CDC Director. Trust and applaud Rush and friends.  Keep your eyes glued to FOX and CNN, so that you can watch the ambulances take a health care worker to NIH and wait for a talking head to suggest a relationship between Ebola and the missing Malaysia Flight 370.

    It is not enough for you to embed links (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 16, 2014 at 08:21:00 PM EST
    in your comments - you need to blockquote them so we can distinguish between what you are quoting and your own hysteria-fueled comments.

    Funny that you didn't highlight this part of the link:

    In Vinson's case, creating a timeline is complicated because she did not have the classic symptoms of the virus -- headache, sore throat, muscle and joint pain, and a spiking fever -- even when she was diagnosed upon her return to Dallas.

    It's all well and good to exercise an abundance of caution, but it didn't need to come to this.  I believe the Texas hospital was grossly negligent and incompetent from Day One.  It wasn't the CDC that told the ER to send Duncan home.  It wasn't the CDC that told the hospital that those attending to Duncan after he was re-admitted and diagnosed with Ebola could also carry a regular patient load.  

    And the media.  Jesus, don't get me started on them.  Huge headlines. Dire opening segments.  Helicopters circling overhead because an Ebola patient is being moved.  OJ-like car-tracking.  God, they just love them a crisis, even if they have to manufacture it.

    One person has died who contracted the virus outside the US.  Two more contracted the virus via contact with Duncan.  Not a single member of Duncan's family in Dallas has tested positive for the virus.  No one who cared for Kent Brantly or Nancy Writebol has tested positive.

    If nothing else, the lesson of Texas Presbyterian is that this whole idea that the American health care system is equipped to handle something like Ebola is just one more big fat lie.  Or it's a myth, a tall tale we wove out of little more than first-world status.  

    And with Texas Pres. as an example, who in their right mind will trust their local hospital?  Think about that for a minute: we become like West Africa not because we don't have facilities, but because no one trusts the ones we have, with a few exceptions.

    Please stop the fear-mongering.  It is serving no good purpose.


    Yes there is much mixed info out there. (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by fishcamp on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:53:24 AM EST
    Just moments ago I read on the WHO website that the Ebola virus can live on a doorknob for "several hours."  Then BBC said it only lasts "a minute or two" on an airplane armrest, and sweat is not a good conductor of the virus.  These vague statements make me wonder just who does know wtf is going on.  Ebola has been around for a long time, and even though it was in the back of my mind, I wondered when it would arrive here in America, didn't some of you?

    Interesting article: (none / 0) (#77)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 10:46:55 AM EST

    News that a nurse in full protective gear had become infected with the Ebola virus raised some disturbing questions on Monday. Has the virus evolved into some kind of super-pathogen? Might it mutate into something even more terrifying in the months to come?

    Evolutionary biologists who study viruses generally agree on the answers to those two questions: no, and probably not.



    More irresponsible "journalism." (none / 0) (#83)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 11:04:20 AM EST
    All people will focus on are the incendiary questions and not on the answers.

    The body of the article includes a lot of (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 11:17:41 AM EST
    detail about the evolution of the virus (or plural).

    How invective when (none / 0) (#177)
    by Harold on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:56:37 PM EST
    "Essentially any hospital in the country can take care of Ebola. You don't need a special hospital room to do it," Dr. Tom Frieden [head of the CDC] said Oct. 2. "You do need a private room with a private bathroom."

    Ignoring for the moment that ER rooms don't have private bathrooms, like in so much else, he's been proven disastrously wrong; "first-world status" hubris indeed, as Anne notes.  Perhaps worse, in the last day I learned we really only have 11 beds in the nation genuinely set up for patients with Ebola (the balance of 12 beds are for whatever reasons not available as of now, if ever).

    Your point about his family is critical, although with the caveat WRT to Vinson that, from what I've read in non-authoritative sources, around 13% of Ebola patients don't get a fever, at least not initially.

    While this is largely speculation based on far too few data points, I'm getting the impression that an Ebola patient isn't so infectious early on.  Whereas a clearly dangerous phase is when he's projectile vomiting etc.  Something those caring for Duncan and Pham were, per reports, not protected from due to a big gap in their Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) below their chins, uncovering their necks (kludged with tape).  And who knows where else.  And that's before we get to the nightmare of safely taking your PPE off (and that tape is hard to get off).

    So at this point I think we're hoping really effective transmission only happens in that later phase, by which time the patient should be in a hospital.  With the minor detail that mistakes in isolation have terrible consequences.


    Tell you what, Chippy (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by Zorba on Thu Oct 16, 2014 at 10:05:14 PM EST
    Maybe you should enclose your entire house in plastic wrap (let's call it a House Condom), and lock yourself up in it.
    There you can sit, shrieking and gibbering in fear and taking your temperature every half hour, while the rest of us go about our normal daily lives.
    Clearly, you are not changing any minds here with your over-the-top fear-mongering.  Oh, you do have one or two fellow-travelers in the panic department, but they're not changing any minds, either.

    At this point, Zorba, ... (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:05:19 AM EST
    ... whenever I see a comment from him, I can't help but think of THIS.

    Don't You Know... (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 08:48:44 AM EST
    ...that Ebola is going to be the republican bugaboo this election cycle.  They got nothing else and it's clear that this is RNC mem being pushed out just like Benghazi.

    Chip doesn't care, nor is he worried, his only mission is to slam the current administration; why he is doing it here is a complete mystery, but he got the short straw and we are stuck with his bad luck.


    That entire party is wedded politically to the recycling of shopworn gimmicks and stale platitudes. Even the Republicans' once-renowned think tanks such as the Heritage Foundation -- a formerly reliable source of policy knowledge and development, once upon a time -- have been overrun by party hacks and right-wing crackpots.

    As we can all see, the Republican Party is awash in financial capital for their campaigns. but it's the party's intellectual capital that's since fled its nests. The sort of shockingly unbridled ignorance offered to the Bush White House by Laurie Mylroie -- the GOP foreign policy guru whose claims about imaginary links between Saddam Hussein and al Qa'eda did so much to propel us headlong into the Iraq War -- would never have passed muster with responsible Republican Party elders in the 1960s and '70s.

    Sad to say, while the GOP eschews common sense as an unnecessary tether and burden to its electoral chances, it now celebrates crackpottery and superficiality as its political virtues. And we as a country have paid a huge price for that.



    Oh, for Heaven's sake! (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 01:52:19 AM EST
    Get a life. Seriously.

    CDC Tracking. (none / 0) (#117)
    by KeysDan on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 01:29:35 PM EST
    This is called epidemiology.  A study of patterns, causes and effects of health and disease conditions.   It is the cornerstone of public health, but, it is a science and as such is understandably dismissed by right wingers.

    Grimm Cave (none / 0) (#21)
    by ZtoA on Thu Oct 16, 2014 at 11:36:33 PM EST
    did anyone see the season 1 episode on Cinderella? I thought it was brilliant and a totally new modern take and take-off from the original.

    Krap (none / 0) (#71)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:59:34 AM EST
    its not on the DVR.  I thought I had it set.  Was it last night?

    I get it (none / 0) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 10:08:42 AM EST
    you are on DVD.  Season 4 episode 1 is a week from tonight.

    I thought I would check out the new season before I buy olds ones.


    My Amazon Prime account (none / 0) (#98)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 11:51:54 AM EST
    Says I can instant stream seasons one and two.  I don't have the app downloaded yet.  It looks like streaming to a mobile device might be free with Amazon Prime, but there is a charge to get it in HD.

    As I recall (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by sj on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 12:01:36 PM EST
    Season 1 started out with a bang, wobbled a bit midseason, and then took off and hasn't looked back.

    Of course, that's just my memory -- I've been watching since the beginning.  All I'm saying is that if your attention wanders a bit part way through the season, just hang in there.


    If you do see an episode of the new season (none / 0) (#100)
    by ZtoA on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 11:58:52 AM EST
    please share. I don't think there could be "spoilers" for Grimm. I always read up on the quote they put up at the beginning of an episode and sometimes a summary of the episode itself. It has never spoiled it for me. Other shows, yes, but for Grimm, not going to spoil it.

    I also see it (none / 0) (#105)
    by sj on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 12:10:52 PM EST
    here. It looks like it has all episodes for free.

    It looks like (none / 0) (#145)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:55:41 PM EST
    if you take away the pay sites there is only one free episode there.  There is two in OnDemand.  I think I will see some free first to see if I want to pay.

    Oh, I see (none / 0) (#180)
    by sj on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 04:21:52 PM EST
    I didn't click on any of those links before because

    1. I've already seen them, and
    2. I'm at work

    I'm tempted to get the DVDs but, can you believe it? I still haven't found my remote for my DVD player.

    Chuck Terd says (none / 0) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 08:42:47 AM EST

    On the very edge of my seat for that.

    Thank you, but I think I'll pass. (none / 0) (#192)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 05:59:51 PM EST
    If Ebola is indeed a "crisis," then it's one that's been manufactured from whole cloth by an outrageously irresponsible U.S. media. And leave it to irrepressible Chuck Todd to now pilot that ship of fools on their search for a solution. Personally, I think a really great place for them to start would be STFU City.

    So (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:04:36 AM EST
    i just heard a rumor, based on what I have no idea since they are not supposed to announce the 2015 schedule until Jan, but a rumor that Antiques Roadshow is coming to Hot Springs next year.
    If they do I am definitely going for tickets.

    A friend of mine (none / 0) (#45)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:10:36 AM EST
    Went with her mom to the one held in West Virginia a couple of months ago.  They each brought something and had it appraised but she didn't think either would make it on the show!

    My problem would be deciding what to take (none / 0) (#48)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:17:55 AM EST
    i think you can take two things.  I think I would have to talk a friend or relative into going with me.  I don't think I could narrow it down to two.  4 maybe.

    Forget it Jake... (none / 0) (#49)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:18:20 AM EST
    it's Ebola Town.  We'll either be dead or Mad Max-ing it by Spring 2015, don't you watch the news?

    You know what struck me? (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:25:06 AM EST
    if and when there really was an actual pandemic outbreak, which is not impossible at all, we are so fu@ked.

    Who is we ;) (none / 0) (#53)
    by CST on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:32:28 AM EST
    I have a lot of confidence in the hospitals in Boston if $hit hits the fan (see marathon bombing response).

    Zombie apocalypse or red dawn scenario and we're screwed, but pandemic I think we've got covered.

    Shoot, they didn't even have to have a legal quarantine, they just asked everyone to stay home and everyone did.


    I wasn't really (none / 0) (#59)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:37:42 AM EST
    referring to the response system but more to the hysteria.  Judging from the hysterical response to this if there was ever a real excuse for hysteria people would be killing and eating their neighbors on the second day.

    Don't Play With Me... (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:52:28 AM EST
    ...because I would Mad Max it allllll dayyyyy longggg.

    I tend to think it would look like Twelve Monkeys, which might be one of my all time favorite movies, but not a future I can get behind.

    But the a lawless Australian Outback...


    I watch (none / 0) (#50)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:23:08 AM EST
    but I have a proprietary bullsh!t filter.

    This is gonna sound horrible.... (none / 0) (#52)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:26:04 AM EST
    buuuuut, if you love life, shouldn't you be rooting for Ebola to thin the human herd by 20% or more?  

    Death and suffering and associated chaos aside, it would probably the best thing to happen to all life on this planet since we started walking upright.  


    Sort of Mothers Nature's Holocaust ? (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 10:27:51 AM EST
    Well between wars, starvation, and maybe a disease, we are thinning the heard plenty.

    The problem is it isn't natural selection or survival of the fittest, it's indiscriminate, and folks who should be thinned are the ones pulling the levels that leads to everyone else being thinned.  The people we least need are the ones least likely to be effected.

    So no, I don't think a disease that effects everyone is a good thing for humanity, now if you can find a disease that only attacks greedy, power craven, psychopaths, sign me up, I will be a a designated carrier.  And I wouldn't mind if it mutated to include war mongers and extremists.


    Maybe natural selection and (none / 0) (#85)
    by ZtoA on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 11:07:35 AM EST
    survival of the fittest were rather "survival of the less-aggressive, survival of the luckiest, and survival of those who have the best stuff". link  

    Ha (none / 0) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:35:24 AM EST
    yup it sounds horrible.  That will be the goal of the actual future pandemic.  I think the earth is an organism and will act to protect itself at some point.  
    To your point.  I would prefer the dead were not so concentrated in the poor dark skinned countries.   If the point is to take out the real problem it would make more sense to start in real population centers.

    Point taken, Scott & Captain... (none / 0) (#79)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 10:58:06 AM EST
    that's the flaw...the suffering and death will fall on third world poor, same as it ever was in the name of "progress".

    Mother nature will do what she gotta do in the end to protect life from us, of this I have no doubt, but the world's oligarchs will not go down with the species ship quietly. They will have the resources to pre-emptively quarantine themselves, or move to outer space till it blows over.


    That Statement... (none / 0) (#93)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 11:32:48 AM EST
    ...reminds me of the creepy guy in Contact who was near death's door and miraculously had a duplicate machine made for Foster.  In one of the scenes, he is in a spacecraft floating around...

    But fear not, professional athletes will be ruling the world from their hyperbolic chambers.


    "Contact"... (none / 0) (#103)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 12:05:37 PM EST
    haven't thought of that movie in a long time.

    otoh, Ebolathon 2014 has me dropping lines from "Outbreak" left and right.

    "You don't have to bomb Cedar Creek!"

    "Isolate him, ISOLATE HIM!"


    I don't know, dog.. (none / 0) (#181)
    by jondee on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 04:32:40 PM EST
    it's sounds like your casting a vote for more of Mother Nature's coercive Big Government Agenda and her habit of poking her intrusive, big, green nose into our business and intruding upon our personal rights and liberties (she coerced me into the Men's Room just a sort time ago.)

    Somebody call Slado and the Cato Institute.


    "The owl and the pussycat went to sea (none / 0) (#129)
    by fishcamp on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:18:51 PM EST
    in a beautiful pea green boat"...I'll get an owl and paint my boat.

    Here is my Water World check list (none / 0) (#149)
    by ragebot on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:02:39 PM EST
    42 foot fractional rigged catamaran with big Code 0 head sail, big enough solar and house battery bank to run the freezer and refrigerator for three days straight of clouds, Honda EU2000 for emergencies, Spectra water maker, Manson Supreme and Bruce with 50 meters of chain, plenty of hooks, lures, and line for the meat lines, and the skill to single hand the boat at least through the Windward and Leeward Islands.  Lots of beans and rice.

    Remember a house is just a boat so poorly build and run aground so hard it is pointless to try and refloat it.


    That is the very generator I have... (none / 0) (#175)
    by fishcamp on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:51:58 PM EST
    it's balanced or equalized to not surge and ruin computers.  For hurricane survival I run my refrigerator, one light and my computer. Life then happens in the kitchen.  I set up a personal hotspot on my iPhone, and exist.  The next day after a hurricane is usually calm and beautiful, except nothing works anymore.  There are always fish off my dock, and if the dock is gone, boat-man-do.  If the boat is gone I can wade and cast.  If I'm gone, no worry.

    Ebola czar named. (none / 0) (#66)
    by Angel on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:47:17 AM EST
    Ron Klain, a former chief of staff to Vice President Joe Biden and also to Vice President Al Gore, was named as the new Ebola czar to oversee the government's response to the ongoing crisis.

    Well maybe that will shut up the (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 10:59:44 AM EST
    "I hate big government but the president should lead on everything" crowd.  But it won't.  

    Where is all the commentary about "Rick Perry's Texas", like I am always hearing about Obama's America?


    McCain and Republicans (none / 0) (#126)
    by KeysDan on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:15:31 PM EST
    have been screeching about the need for a Czar to calm the hysteria they created, but will now criticize the Czar President Obama appoints as not being knowledgable and only a glib spokesman.  

    The irony (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 11:21:59 AM EST
    is it's not even a FREAKING CRISIS. One person came her from another country and died of it. Two other people have been infected but will probably survive.

    Watching the (none / 0) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 09:55:00 AM EST
    Fauchi and company news conference.  Interesting.

    Expect the (none / 0) (#86)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 11:11:45 AM EST
    wingers to freak out on that and think that the job of the czar is going to be to direct Ebola in their direction to make them sick and die. And the ones that don't die will be put in camps.

    WTF (none / 0) (#113)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 01:02:28 PM EST
    The man has zero, zilch, zip experience in public health administration, but plenty as a political fixer.  Look for blue states to get plenty of "Ebola preparedness" funding.  

    The guy was appointed to fix Obama's political problem. Whatever happened with Dr. Nicole that had the job prior?  Oh yeah, earmarking CDC money to cronies.



    you know (5.00 / 4) (#122)
    by CST on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 01:59:33 PM EST
    Some of this stuff is public information that you could google before you rant.  Like this:

    "According to the report, Midwest states receive less funding per person from the CDC, and states in the South receive the most funding per person.

    The states getting the most CDC dollars per capita are Alaska, Georgia and Maryland. Getting the fewest dollars per capita are Kansas, Indiana and Florida."

    But yea, all the money is being funneled to blue state cronies.


    Well (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:30:34 PM EST
    He also has experience in managing things and working the political process. And he's a lawyer.  That might be helpful to do things like, oh work the right people to get the resources where they need to be.

    But your outrage is hilarious. While you are acting like no president ever put political people in high level or sensitive positions, please explain the relevant experiences that Michael Brown had to run FEMA, Scott Gottlieb had to be the deputy commissioner for medical and scientific affairs for the FDA, David Safavian had to be the Chief Procurement Officer, and more?


    That is the story (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:43:21 PM EST
    I get that the guy has knowledge of interagency cooperation.  IMO he should be serving in that position under the most serious and credible public health specialist they coukd find to take the job.

    Just reading about this-

    Klain is likely to take a low key role publicly.

    Earnest said Obama wasn't looking for an Ebola expert but "an implementation expert."

    He confirmed Klain's title: "Ebola response coordinator."


    "When are they going to stop making mistakes?" said Robert Murphy, the director of the Center for Global Health at Northwestern University's Feinberg School of Medicine. "We need a czar, but optimally a strong public health expert. I am so disappointed. This is not what we need."

    Oh, I don't disagree (none / 0) (#139)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:45:40 PM EST
    But Abdul's outrage is pretty funny.

    CDC (none / 0) (#84)
    by Slado on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 11:05:44 AM EST
    While I agree the panic is a media frenzy it is hard to see the CDC's initial handling of this as anything but a failure.

    Why did they not take control of the TX patient?  

    Why did they send pamphlets and expect inexperienced health professionals to follow protocols that they train on?

    Why did they tell the women she could board a plane?

    Bottom line the head of the CDC went on shows and stood at a podium promising that they knew how to handle the epidemic and we should all trust them.

    The first case arises in TX and they blow it.

    One can understand why the public might be a little skeptical.

    Actually (5.00 / 5) (#90)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 11:19:55 AM EST
    the CDC should not have taken control of the first patient. Her own hospital should have sent her to Emory who unless you have been living in a cave knows how to handle this situation. So I guess you can hold the CDC responsible for not seeing how third world healthcare is in Texas.

    Well, the health professionals are not supposed to be inexperienced but reading pamphlets has no ROI for most hospitals and it's all about the money. And you also have a big problem in Texas in that you have so many uninsured people who use the ER for primary care but that is the way their governor and legislature want it to be. So you have ER staff stretched to the limits and when you have that situation, people are going to get stressed and get careless.

    As far as the woman boarding the plane, apparently their research has said that the person has to have a certain temperature before being able to infect people. Remember no one that got on a plane with Thomas Duncan seems to have come down with Ebola have they? And even the people that he visited have tested negative for Ebola haven't they?


    There is a difference (5.00 / 3) (#131)
    by KeysDan on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:29:06 PM EST
    between having a protocol and being faithful to that protocol.  And, following the protocol takes good management and supervision.  And, many hospitals, in their zest for economies over patient care, have not always given either.  Making matters worse, is the patient load of nurses.  ICU nurse/patient load should be l/l or, maybe, l/2.  Step-down care is greater, maybe l/4 and general medicine is l/8, under most circumstances.  Some conflicting reports on patient loads at the Dallas hospital,, but the little reporting in this area was at much higher levels.  For a rare, but communicable disease, such as Ebola, the nurses should never have had more than just the one patient.  

    I was recenlty hospitalized in the critical care/ (none / 0) (#138)
    by Angel on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:44:04 PM EST
    trauma unit and it was 1 nurse for every 2 patients.  

    Why have a CDC (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by Slado on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:43:27 PM EST
    If we are going to rely on local hospitals to control this?

    The CDC said they were on top of this and they bungled he first patient.  God help us if this does turn into anything more then a few isolated cases.  Not sure a political appointee is the answer to not b ing prepared and for not doing more to help stop the epidemic in Africa months ago.

    Not saying the local hospital isn't at fault but your rant about insurance is meaningless.  

    Also she cared for a known Ebola victim.  She should have been quarantined not told to fly on a technicality.

    The ball was dropped at all levels but it's interesting to see the partisans fall into their respective categories.  Dems want to make excuses for the CDC and blame Texas, republicans want to us this as another example of Federal government failure under Obama.

    Both can be right at the same time.


    IMO (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 02:51:59 PM EST
    someone needs to be fired for allowing her to fly.  Stop CYAing and admit the screw up and take some serious action to let people know this is not happening again.

    That's my opinion.


    Some Confirmation... (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:21:21 PM EST
    ...that she actually called the CDC would be a good start.  I don't like that we are taking the word of people who have a good reason to lie, just because they are sick.

    Not saying she did, but let's start confirming these stories and pinning down the chain of events.  What did she really ask, and what was the actual advise.

    I suspect she framed the question to get the answer she wanted and may have left out some important info.  Planning a wedding is top priority and I doubt she wanted to eat the ticket and lose a week of planning on the extremely small chance that she might be infected.

    If not, then let's find out why she was cleared to fly.  Was it the operator, or were they directed by someone.

    Surely the CDC records calls, let's hear it.


    Exactly (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:23:09 PM EST
    The CDC wasn't notified about Duncan until (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:12:08 PM EST
    after he had returned to the hospital after having been turned away several days earlier.  He had symptoms on his first visit, and those were worse when he returned.  He wasn't tested the first time, it was only on his second visit that they tested him for Ebola.

    And then they notified the CDC.  Classic case of closing the barn door after the horse has escaped.

    Hospital administration says they followed protocol, but the nurses tell a different story.

    Even if the risks of transmission on the plane were minimal, I can't make sense of either the nurse deciding she had to fly, or the CDC not preventing her from doing so.  I'm not even sure why she was allowed to fly out of the area during the 21-day incubation period - so yes, someone dropped the ball.

    What all of this tells me is that handling an actual outbreak on a hospital-by-hospital basis is not the best way to go.  It is too much of a strain on staffing, and too difficult to oversee.  Designating regional or central medical centers with areas with dedicated treatment areas makes more sense to me.

    If it's any consolation, I have a feeling there will be some changes to how an infection like this would be managed going forward.


    I hope so (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:16:23 PM EST
    right now they honestly seem more concerned about managing the message than managing the response.

    I hope it only seems that way.


    I Thought... (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:32:57 PM EST
    ...his cousin called the CDC after the hospital sent him home.

    But here is the point I made above, 21 days for a woman planning a wedding a thousand miles away is a damn good reason to frame the question a certain way to the CDC.

    Not saying that happened, but we are taking the word of people with good reasons to lie, at face value.

    But that is the heart of the problem, this is the 21st century, people can't stop their lives for 21 days on the off chance they might be infected.  People aren't going to eat the cost of putting their lives on hold for 21 days.  For example, the woman above, that would mean eating a ticket and possibly cancelling a wedding, on miniscule chance she got infected.  That could be thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of dollars and the pain of planning another weeding.


    The hospital (5.00 / 3) (#169)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:41:30 PM EST
    unfortunately did not contact the CDC until it was TOO late. They apparently did not contact the CDC until they already had released the guy the first time and he came back the second time. The hospital in Texas really deserves the lion's share of the blame on this one. And then the third world quality of health care in Texas too.

    The problem is we have no health care system in this country. It is a mess and it has been a mess for a long, long time. I had cancer. The first doctor couldn't even be bothered to call me back and let me know and this was after calling his office for weeks trying to get test results.


    No (5.00 / 2) (#174)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 03:46:25 PM EST
    the rant about insurance is NOT meaningless. The more people using the ER for the WRONG reasons the more stressed and careless the staff is going to be due to being overtired, overworked etc. The nurse apparently was caring for 8 patients at the same time in the ER. Now this is not like a floor nurse where everybody with similar issues are on the same floor. This is a nurse having to take care of probably eight different problems at the same time. Can you imagine if these people had a family practice doctor to go to instead of having to use the ER? How much less stressed and more time to be careful these nurses would have? And the ER could truly be for emergencies instead of it being where people go for primary care?

    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 11:32:16 AM EST
    and I wonder about appointing a purely political person as a "czar"?  Really? Ron Klain was the most qualified person to deal with this? Really?
    Sure he is a supervisor/organizer.  A political supervisor/organizer.   Really?

    Clarifying, (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 11:40:38 AM EST
    the country, rightly or wrongly, is freaked. For f@cks sake, if you are going to do "something", do something that will make people "feel better". Appointing a political hack to that job is a fail on so many levels.

    Maybe... (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 01:09:00 PM EST
    ...but Frieden isn't cutting it in front of the cameras.  He might have all the skills and knowledge and then some, but he's in over his head in what is needed currently, putting out fires.

    Politicians, as much as I dislike most of them, are pros when it comes to the press and distinguishing fires, especially fires that don't exist.

    A better fit would be the acting Surgeon General, a guy with a uniform and in the military would be my choice for putting out these media driven fires.

    Not sure what a czar can do that the Surgeon General can't.


    Why are you surprised? (5.00 / 3) (#118)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 01:34:37 PM EST
    This is SOP for Obama. He almost always picks the wrong person for the job.

    The Texas hospital blew it, big time. (5.00 / 3) (#94)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 11:38:39 AM EST
    They sent a man home who presented with fever, and who had told his nurses that he had just come from Liberia.

    Sent. Him. Home.

    Did they contact the CDC, or the state health department at the time?  No.  They sent him home with some antibiotics.  CDC wasn't notified until Duncan showed up two days later, with worsening symptoms.  Oops.  And then the hospital decided it was more important to cover their own a$$es and they deceived and misled the CDC.  That's why the nurse's union had to speak out.

    No one who treated him at initial contact wore protective equipment - and it is believed that that is when the nurse got infected.

    I believe the CDC does know how to handle an epidemic - they've been on the front lines of Ebola and the various outbreaks for years - but our health care system does not.

    You want to blame CDC for an initial response that was based on false information from the hospital?  Perhaps if hospital administrators had been honest about their own failures, CDC's response would have been different.  

    Is the CDC perfect?  I don't think so - I'm sure they made mistakes.

    But, seriously - the amount of panic being generated by the media on the basis of questionable information is compounding whatever problems there are.

    And by the way, one death and two infections is not an epidemic.


    Jon Stewart (none / 0) (#182)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 04:43:21 PM EST
    Six reasons (none / 0) (#187)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 17, 2014 at 05:15:03 PM EST
      To Watch the Knick Finale--Even if You Haven't Watched All Season

    Then it went from good to exceptionally good. That brooding antihero--Clive Owen's surgical whiz Dr. John Thackery--remained brooding while slipping deeper into cocaine addiction while simultaneously growing more obsessed with his work. Dr. Algernon Edwards (André Holland) continued to elbow his way into surgeries at New York's Knickerbocker Hospital while maintaining his affair with the head of its board of trustees, Cornelia Robertson (Juliet Rylance). All the while, Steven Soderbergh's direction pulled us in and the heart-rattling electronic din of Cliff Martinez's score played on. It became gripping television. Even TV critics changed their tunes about its quality.

    Moreover, it became television you should watch when the finale airs Friday, even if you haven't seen an episode so far. The Knick hasn't really been terribly complex with its plot (Quick summary: Thackery, a brilliant surgeon and coke addict, works at The Knick at a time when medicine was largely a trial-and-error affair), so one needn't worry about being unable to follow along. Instead, The Knick has become a lush character drama you can enjoy without being entirely caught up.

    After the finale, you can (and should) watch the entire season. In the meantime, here are primers for six key arcs playing out that we hope will be resolved in the finale. Think of them as reasons to jump in now before the end so that you, too, can believe the hype.