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Obama: Pot No More Dangerous Than Alcohol

The New Yorker has an extensive interview with President Obama, on a variety of topics.

On marijuana:

“As has been well documented, I smoked pot as a kid, and I view it as a bad habit and a vice, not very different from the cigarettes that I smoked as a young person up through a big chunk of my adult life. I don’t think it is more dangerous than alcohol.”

Is it less dangerous? I asked. Less dangerous, he said, “in terms of its impact on the individual consumer. It’s not something I encourage, and I’ve told my daughters I think it’s a bad idea, a waste of time, not very healthy.”

On Colorado and Washington's legalization laws: He said it's important "they go forward." [More...]

“it’s important for it to go forward because it’s important for society not to have a situation in which a large portion of people have at one time or another broken the law and only a select few get punished.”

Obama feels differently about other drugs:

“I also think that, when it comes to harder drugs, the harm done to the user is profound and the social costs are profound. And you do start getting into some difficult line-drawing issues. If marijuana is fully legalized and at some point folks say, Well, we can come up with a negotiated dose of cocaine that we can show is not any more harmful than vodka, are we open to that? If somebody says, We’ve got a finely calibrated dose of meth, it isn’t going to kill you or rot your teeth, are we O.K. with that?”

Here's how Obama described his teenage years to a group of at-risk male students in a program called "Becoming a Man" a a public school on the South side of Chicago:

“We went around the room and started telling each other stories. And one of the young men asked me about me growing up, and I explained, You know what? I’m just like you guys. I didn’t have a dad. There were times where I was angry and wasn’t sure why I was angry. I engaged in a bunch of anti-social behavior. I did drugs. I got drunk. Didn’t take school seriously. The only difference between me and you is that I was in a more forgiving environment, and if I made a mistake I wasn’t going to get shot. And, even if I didn’t apply myself in school, I was at a good enough school that just through osmosis I’d have the opportunity to go to college.

On the NSA:

Obama admitted that the N.S.A. has had “too much leeway to do whatever it wanted or could.” But he didn’t feel “any ambivalence” about the decisions he has made. “I actually feel confident that the way the N.S.A. operates does not threaten the privacy and constitutional rights of Americans and that the laws that are in place are sound, and, because we’ve got three branches of government involved and a culture that has internalized that domestic spying is against the law, it actually works pretty well,” he said. “Over all, five years from now, when I’m a private citizen, I’m going to feel pretty confident that my government is not spying on me.”

The author of the article, David Remmick, who conducted the interviews with Obama, lists his view of Obama's accomplishments as President:

...ending two wars; an economic rescue, no matter how imperfect; strong Supreme Court nominations; a lack of major scandal; essential support for an epochal advance in the civil rights of gays and lesbians; more progressive executive orders on climate change, gun control, and the end of torture; and, yes, health-care reform.

The greatest President according to Obama: Abraham Lincoln.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Surely Pres. Obama is aware MJ is on federal (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by oculus on Sun Jan 19, 2014 at 10:55:18 PM EST
    Schedule 1.  Seems disingenuous.

    Perhaps he's forgotten that he can unilaterally (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Jan 20, 2014 at 01:43:17 AM EST
    reschedule the drug, even deschedule it, using his much beloved executive powers or through his DHHS Cabinet Secretary, according to this wikipedia article.

    Parent
    And I Forget Who is the Head of the DEA ? (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jan 20, 2014 at 09:06:46 AM EST
    Oh yeah, this nitwit from the Bush administration.

    For the life of me I can not understand how that person was appointed to head the DEA by two Presidents.  

    If either actually cared about drug policy, we wouldn't have a cartoon character heading the DEA.

    It's good to hear Obama saying these things, but it would be great if he actually meant them.

    Parent

    The link doesn't mention executive order (none / 0) (#8)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 20, 2014 at 06:35:30 AM EST
    Neither did I. (none / 0) (#9)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Jan 20, 2014 at 08:05:37 AM EST
    Then please explain what you mean (none / 0) (#12)
    by Peter G on Mon Jan 20, 2014 at 10:14:21 AM EST
    by "unilaterally." I thought that White House control (called "interference" when we disagree with the result) over what is supposed to be a science-based, expert process was a bad thing. As I understand it (and confirmed by the linked Wikipedia article), an appeal from the DEA's refusal, after a hearing according to the prescribed legal process, to move marijuana out of Schedule I is pending before the federal appeals court for the D.C. Circuit.  Based on the evidence, the challengers should win, but that's no guarantee that they will.

    Parent
    We'll, one thing that the President could (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by Zorba on Mon Jan 20, 2014 at 01:56:10 PM EST
    certainly do, Peter, is pardon the medical marijuana growers that his Justice Department has prosecuted and jailed.
    See Juan Cole's commentary.

    Parent
    According to the wikipedia article, the DHHS (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Jan 20, 2014 at 06:49:59 PM EST
    cabinet secretary can reschedule and/or deschedule the substance, even outside the petition process.

    The HHS Secretary can even unilaterally legalize cannabis: "[I]f the Secretary recommends that a drug or other substance not be controlled, the Attorney General shall not control the drug or other substance." 21 U.S.C. § 811b.

    I'm not telling; I'm asking.  You, Jeralyn, Oculus, BTD, and a few others are attorneys.  You know how to read this stuff; I don't.  It is wikipedia and might easily have been a misinterpretation.

    As for the desirability of "a science-based, expert process," there's been little of that since the beginning of reefer regulation madness.  It's been more like a catch-22.  Without a proven medical benefit, marijuana can't move off schedule 1, where it was placed by Tricky Dick Nixon's stooges, but any research which could demonstrate a medical benefit has been blocked by a DEA which seems to approve only research into hypotheses which reaffirm marijuana's hazards to moms, apple pie, and the American way.

    Parent

    What you say about the perversion of science (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Peter G on Mon Jan 20, 2014 at 08:23:21 PM EST
    is true, of course.  Nevertheless, a scientific study, not an administrative fiat, is what the law requires, Wikipedia to the contrary notwithstanding, to reverse the political action that put cannabis in Schedule I in the original 1970 Controlled Substances Act:
    (b) Evaluation of drugs and other substances

    The Attorney General shall, before initiating proceedings under subsection (a) of this section to control a drug or other substance or to remove a drug or other substance entirely from the schedules, and after gathering the necessary data, request from the Secretary a scientific and medical evaluation, and his recommendations, as to whether such drug or other substance should be so controlled or removed as a controlled substance. In making such evaluation and recommendations, the Secretary shall consider the factors listed in paragraphs (2), (3), (6), (7), and (8) of subsection (c) of this section and any scientific or medical considerations involved in paragraphs (1), (4), and (5) of such subsection. The recommendations of the Secretary shall include recommendations with respect to the appropriate schedule, if any, under which such drug or other substance should be listed. The evaluation and the recommendations of the Secretary shall be made in writing and submitted to the Attorney General within a reasonable time. The recommendations of the Secretary to the Attorney General shall be binding on the Attorney General as to such scientific and medical matters, and if the Secretary recommends that a drug or other substance not be controlled, the Attorney General shall not control the drug or other substance. If the Attorney General determines that these facts and all other relevant data constitute substantial evidence of potential for abuse such as to warrant control or substantial evidence that the drug or other substance should be removed entirely from the schedules, he shall initiate proceedings for control or removal, as the case may be, under subsection (a) of this section.


    21 U.S.C. 811(b) (not "811b").  It clearly requires a "scientific and medical evaluation" and then a specific administrative process, described in subsection (a) of section 811.

    Parent
    Thank you, Peter. (none / 0) (#26)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Jan 21, 2014 at 11:04:31 AM EST
    You and Oculus were both correct in inferring that I would be perfectly happy if in this case Obama forced the descheduling via whatever pretense was necessary.  After all, the relevant cabinet secretaries work for him.  He only needs a John Yoo to dream up an a plausible legal rationalization.  

    Am I a hypocrite for welcoming a finding in this case and whinging about all the war on terror findings, Bush's as well as Obama's?  Of course.


    Parent

    Oculus? (none / 0) (#31)
    by squeaky on Tue Jan 21, 2014 at 03:21:48 PM EST
    Maybe I am missing something here, but Oculus and Peter are not coming from anywhere near the same place, imo.

    Oculus flip comment is a routine gratuitous slam on Obama. One for the (anti) cheering section..  

    Peter, on the other hand is pointing out that there is a process, one which Oculus is making believe does not exist. Obama comment, was clearly meant as a signal to the deaf that it is time to stop the demonization of weed.

    A signal from the POTUS that most certainly will hit is mark, and undoubtedly move the legalization process forward which involves the first step to take MJ off schedule one classification.

    Parent

    I do believe (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jan 21, 2014 at 03:29:37 PM EST
    you totally misread the comment by oculus

    Parent
    Oh Good (none / 0) (#33)
    by squeaky on Tue Jan 21, 2014 at 03:39:14 PM EST
    Glad to get this one wrong. I would love to hear a different more positive interpretation.

    Parent
    You Got Flippant, Gratuitous Slam, and (anti)... (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jan 21, 2014 at 03:46:06 PM EST
    ...cheering section from these two posts ?

    Surely Pres. Obama is aware MJ is on federal Schedule 1.  Seems disingenuous.

    The link doesn't mention executive order

    That is one hell of a job of reading between the lines.  I got what was stated, which I totally agree.  His appointment to DEA Chair makes is painfully obvious that he isn't interested in changing anything.  Add in all the legal medical marijuana busts in California and Colorado over the past 5 years, and it's pretty hard for me to reconcile that with his words above.

    Parent

    Oculus Post (none / 0) (#35)
    by squeaky on Tue Jan 21, 2014 at 04:24:08 PM EST
    I was only responding to Oculus' post. IMO, Obama's statements in the interview do not appear to me to be in any way disingenuous. Calling them disingenuous appears to be an unwarranted and reflexive slam to me, routine.

    Parent
    They might have (none / 0) (#57)
    by ZtoA on Thu Jan 23, 2014 at 08:44:22 PM EST
    appeared to you to be genuine. Maybe they were. Still, I have a good friend who grew legally for years and the feds busted him and destroyed his land  simply to intimidate a friend of his. The DEA is very powerful.

    Parent
    What a crock. (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by lentinel on Mon Jan 20, 2014 at 05:06:10 PM EST
    Pot is much less dangerous than alcohol.

    Have you ever seen anyone get violent after smoking weed?
    I haven't.

    But I have seen lots of people get hostile, ugly, insulting and violent after drinking.

    That doesn't mean that I am in favor of prohibition for alcohol.

    Both pot and alcohol have a place in society.
    Both, in moderation, are social and convivial.

    But when someone smokes too much pot, what happens? They zone. They sleep. They watch tv. They munch.

    Too much booze - and all hell can break loose. Anyone ever see "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf"? Admittedly fiction, but not inaccurate imo. But if the protagonists were smoking weed, it would be a different scenario.

    My point - why can't the guy just come out and say that smoking weed can be, and usually is, intensely enjoyable and harmless. That's why people do it. For fun. For pleasure. To laugh. To enjoy. And he should announce that he is for legalization.

    The only plus side of this is that perhaps he sees the writing on the wall - that there is at long last a drive toward legalization. To put it more accurately, a drive to end the illegalization if I may coin a word. Pot used to be legal until it was outlawed for reasons that include racism. Let's get the government out of our way. Let it collect garbage and provide us with safe public transportation and cops on the beat.

    Chill, lentinel (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by christinep on Mon Jan 20, 2014 at 06:24:51 PM EST
    Take a puff or two; zone.  It really is okay.

    Parent
    Now _this_ is why we elected this guy. (none / 0) (#1)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Jan 19, 2014 at 09:52:49 PM EST


    Because (none / 0) (#6)
    by Mikado Cat on Mon Jan 20, 2014 at 02:06:48 AM EST
    of his firm control over a devoted segment of the media?

    BTW "we" didn't elect him.

    Parent

    You've got me. Who elected him? (none / 0) (#20)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Jan 20, 2014 at 06:51:29 PM EST
    Obvioulsy (none / 0) (#28)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jan 21, 2014 at 01:48:36 PM EST
    not the people who are "worthy" or the "right" people it would seem.

    Parent
    Media and money (none / 0) (#50)
    by Mikado Cat on Wed Jan 22, 2014 at 02:20:53 PM EST
    same as all other politicians.

    Parent
    lol; you do have a point... (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Jan 23, 2014 at 01:31:59 PM EST
    They pretend to give us a choice, and we pretend we've got one.

    Parent
    Because he has mastered the art of (none / 0) (#22)
    by BeDazzled on Mon Jan 20, 2014 at 06:55:30 PM EST
    making everything old new again? Who doesn't know that MJ is safer than alcohol? It's also not addicting - no one goes to rehab for MJ addiction.

    Parent
    Not true (none / 0) (#29)
    by jbindc on Tue Jan 21, 2014 at 02:37:57 PM EST
    Just ask Lady Gaga.

    Link:

    The addictive qualities of marijuana are not yet fully understood. The National Institute on Drug Abuse estimates 9% of people who use marijuana will become addicted to it. For comparison's sake, cocaine hooks about 20% of those who use it.

    "There is clear evidence that in some people, marijuana use can lead to withdrawal symptoms, including insomnia, anxiety and nausea," CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta wrote in his story, "Why I changed my mind on weed," referring to medical marijuana.



    Parent
    What a Crock... (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jan 21, 2014 at 03:13:41 PM EST
    ...not fully understood, it's been on the planet a hell of a lot longer than human beings.  That is like saying we don't understand how sugar or water works.

    That aside, from your link:

    Alcohol's addictive qualities are well-documented. Approximately 17.6 million people, or one in every 12 adults, suffer from alcohol abuse or dependence, according to the NIAAA. Alcoholics in withdrawal can suffer from anxiety and depression, headaches, insomnia, nausea, fever and even seizures.

    The addictive qualities of marijuana are not yet fully understood. The National Institute on Drug Abuse estimates 9% of people who use marijuana will become addicted to it. For comparison's sake, cocaine hooks about 20% of those who use it.

    9% of people who use weed become addicted, compared to 8% of of the entire adult population suffering from alcohol abuse or dependence.

    Have you ever used it ?

    from the other link:

    Comparatively, Scientific American pointed out that in a 1994 study showing that 9 percent of people who've tried marijuana become dependent on it, the numbers are higher for other substances: alcohol is 15 percent, heroin is 23 percent and nicotine is 32 percent.

    And while it's impossible to die from a marijuana overdose like you would from other illicit, dangerous drugs, dependence on marijuana can cause disruptions to people's lives, TIME reported.

    I mean seriously, it's probably less addictive than politics, fat, or coffee.  There is nothing that isn't addictive, from religion to watching TV.  The more important question is, is it negatively impacting people's lives.

    Marijuana withdrawal (officially called cannabis withdrawal in the recently released fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) is also sometimes seen in people who stop using marijuana, and is characterized by anxiety, problems sleeping, irritability and aggression, the NIDA reported.

    So sometimes people who stop get anxious, irritable, and aggressive and might not sleep as well.  The operative word being, sometimes.  And they fail to mention that often people are using because of those very symptoms, meaning that the systems marijuana cured came back when they stopped.

    The horror.

    Honestly, the more I read, the more it's becoming painfully obvious, that marijuana is pretty much harmless to society beyond the crime of having it, it's not harming society any more than soda, maybe even less.

    Parent

    Read it again (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by jbindc on Wed Jan 22, 2014 at 07:45:51 AM EST
    The comment I was replying to was "It's not even addicting."

    Leaving aside for the moment, that what they meant to say was "It's not even addictive", that statement, in whatever form, is simply not true.  You even quoted it back to me:

    9% of people who use weed become addicted, compared to 8% of of the entire adult population suffering from alcohol abuse or dependence.

    "Addicted" has a very specific meaning.  People throw around things like "I'm addicted to watching "The Bachelor"", but that simply isn't the same thing. "Addiction" is:

    ... a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in an individual pathologically pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors.

    Addiction is characterized by inability to consistently abstain, impairment in behavioral control, craving, diminished recognition of significant problems with one's behaviors and interpersonal relationships, and a dysfunctional emotional response. Like other chronic diseases, addiction often involves cycles of relapse and remission. Without treatment or engagement in recovery activities, addiction is progressive and can result in disability or premature death.

    And while 9% doesn't seem like a great number, it's still a large number of people.

    I never said anything about alcohol, so your wild and drawn out rant makes absolutely no sense.

    Parent

    It Does... (2.00 / 1) (#42)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jan 22, 2014 at 09:51:18 AM EST
    ...when the context, aka the original post, is about the President stating that marijuana is as safe as alcohol.

    But good to see you totally avoided my points, and had to go another use a source other than the ones you originally posted to get a better definition of addiction.  Guess your two sources, that I quoted, didn't cut what you believe about marijuana addiction.

    Again, from your source, presumably you are addicted if you have withdraws:

    Marijuana withdrawal (officially called cannabis withdrawal in the recently released fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) is also sometimes seen in people who stop using marijuana, and is characterized by anxiety, problems sleeping, irritability and aggression, the NIDA reported.

    Scary stuff, especially when they use the word, 'sometimes'.

    Not really fair that you didn't use the sources you posted that specifically address the issue.  Which is more accurate, your source that specifically mentions marijuana in regards withdraw, or some general clinic definition of addiction, which covers anything from sugar to crack.  Tell me JB, do the folks at your office show those kinds behaviors when they don't get their coffee because they are addicted to caffeine, or is one broad definition of addiction not really suitable to all drugs ?

    Pretty sure every human being on the planet is addicted to something, some addicted to chemicals that have life threatening symptoms when the usage is stopped, while others have almost no physical effects, only mental ones, but are still clinically recognize addictions.  Using one broad definition, especially when you original sources specifically address marijuana, is disingenuous at best.

    Have you ever used, surely an expert such as yourself has at least done one study to see if the hype is accurate, or are you like the good Dr. Gupta, never questioning the actual source data, just repeating it as fact ?  I already know, just messing around, not being all that serious, OK.

    But I do know this, you always have very good and reliable sources, but yesterday you used lady Gaga, surely that anecdotal and famous source is about as unreliable as they get.  Her month long addiction surely didn't hamper her career and if you are to believe her, marijuana provided a very real need in reducing her pain.  Something even you would agree is safer than conventional pain medications.

    I know I am not going to change your mind, and if you remember, even a year or two ago I occasionally came to your cover on this issue, but I really meant it when I said above, the more I read, the more I realize how safe marijuana is when compared to other drugs, legal and illegal.  My view, even though I smoked a lot in my younger days, but no longer do, has been evolving.  Where as once I believed it was about the government being in ones business, but understanding why.  To now, where is painfully obvious that all the information out there is complete hackery, and that it should be legalized because it has many benefits that simply shouldn't be ignored or denied to anyone.

    I find it offensive when the actual information about it's addictive properties is ignored and painted with a broad brush of addictions that most of us associated with the 'hard' drugs like meth and heroin.  Even more offensive is people in the medical and scientific communities stating that it's effects are unknown/not understood when it's been used by human beings for thousands of years.  The real world trials of marijuana have exceeded every other drug on the planet and just because the data isn't in line with their beliefs does not mean they are unknown.

    Parent

    How about the Mayo Clinic? (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by jbindc on Wed Jan 22, 2014 at 03:15:45 PM EST
    And note - I don't take Barack Obama's advice on medicine and scientific facts, since he is not a doctor, nor a researcher.

    Link

    It's possible to develop a psychological addiction to cannabis compounds including tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) found in marijuana and hashish. People who have a marijuana addiction generally use the drug on a daily basis. They don't actually have a chemical dependence on the drug but rather feel the need to regularly use the drug.

    Signs of use and dependence can include:

    *A heightened sense of visual, auditory and taste perception
    *Poor memory
    *Increased blood pressure and heart rate
    *Red eyes
    *Decreased coordination
    *Difficulty concentrating
    *Increased appetite
    *Slowed reaction time
    *Paranoid thinking

    And comparing marijuana to alcohol is besides the point.  Driving a car is dangerous, but that doesn't mean it's sound science to compare that to marijuana smoking. It's a red herring.

    Does that mean that I have given an opinion on decriminalization or legalization?  No. Just pointing out the fact that anyone who says things like, "You can't get addicted to pot" should not be taken seriously because they have no idea what they are talking about.  Is it common?  No, it's a small percentage of people who use it (but according the article I posted, and the quote you reposted, more people apparently get addicted to marijuana than to alcohol, so it doesn't say much for your argument or that great medical researcher, Barack Obama).

    Parent