Sunday Night TV and Open Thread

The Golden Globes: Breaking Bad wins Best TV Drama, Bryan Cranston wins Best Actor. In a surprise win, Robin Wright wins Best Actress for House of Cards over Julianna Margolies for Good Wife. Jared Leto won Best Supporting Actor in a movie (Dallas Buyers' Club) and Jon Voight won best supporting for TV (Ray Donovan.)

[Added:] Diane Keaton was absolutely stunning. She just lit up the screen as she gave a tribute to Woody Allen, who received the Cecil B. DeMille lifetime achievement award.

A new season of Shameless begins tonight on Showtime. Also on : Downton Abbey and the Good Wife.

More news: AMC announced Better Call Saul will start in November.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Niners (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Repack Rider on Sun Jan 12, 2014 at 11:56:49 PM EST
    That is all.

    GO HAWKS! (none / 0) (#128)
    by BeDazzled on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 06:01:39 PM EST
    Thank you, 12th man

    I would (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by lentinel on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 04:07:09 AM EST
    have liked to see Lucy Liu win for best actress in a TV series.

    She plays Joan Watson in "Elementary".

    She is subtle. She conveys emotion, but does not emote.
    I think she is an original, and I hope that this series lasts.

    As much as she gave me the icks... (none / 0) (#32)
    by unitron on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 01:21:15 PM EST
    ...on Ally McBeal, that's how much I think she's great on Elementary.

    If not for her, I'm not sure how long I could have stood the Sherlock character.

    I'm not expecting Basil Rathbone, but with Holmes's upperclass background and unavoidable "public school" prior to University, he should at least be better in the grammar department and at least able to fake better manners.

    But to return to Lucy Liu, she flat knocks it out of the park.


    I like the show, too, and I think her (none / 0) (#42)
    by Anne on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 02:41:05 PM EST
    character's personality plays off well against Sherlock's - and vice-versa.

    What cracks me up, though, is that no one they encounter in their investigations EVER says, "you're kidding, right?  You're Sherlock Holmes and your partner's name is Watson?"

    The other thing I can never figure out - about this show and many others - is why everything takes place in near-darkness; my favorite is when the forensics people show up to the scene of a crime, and everyone gets out their flashlights to go into the dark house - and no one EVER turns on the lights!  In general, places you'd think would be lit up like daytime - labs, police stations, offices, hospitals - are so dimly lit I want to reach into the TV for a light switch.

    "Mood lighting," I guess, but it's just irritating to me.


    In that show's universe... (none / 0) (#71)
    by unitron on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 06:37:44 PM EST
    ...Arthur Conan Doyle, if he existed, did not write about anyone named Holmes or Watson.

    As for the cops flipping the lights on, it's a crime scene, and in addition to not knowing in advance whether they might disturb any evidence, they don't know who might have done what to the electrical system.

    Not to mention going into a dark house with a flashlight makes you somewhat of a target if there's still a bad guy with a gun, but turning on the lights makes sure he's got an excellent view of his target.


    I was really happy that Robin Wright won (none / 0) (#55)
    by ruffian on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 04:45:42 PM EST
    Loved her in House of Cards, but did not expect her to get the nod against the usual nominees.

    And Jacqueline Bisset was probably the most shocked winner I have ever seen on an awards show.

    I have not seen Gravity, but my siblings spent half of Christmas telling me how horrible it was. I received a few IMs when the director won.

    Favorite Tina Fey joke - 'George Clooney drifted into space rather than spend another minute with a woman his own age." LOL.


    Most shocked or most shellacked? (none / 0) (#56)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 04:47:40 PM EST
    It was so early! (none / 0) (#58)
    by ruffian on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 04:50:48 PM EST
    I am giving her the benefit of the doubt on the shnockered question -she walked an awfully long way without tripping!

    Ha! Fair enough. (none / 0) (#62)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 05:13:17 PM EST
    the little bit that I watched, I wondered (none / 0) (#64)
    by Anne on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 05:34:33 PM EST
    why it seemed that so many of the winners were sitting waaaay in the back, and had to make this long, twisting trek to the stage to accept their awards.  Was it during Elizabeth Moss's victory walk where the camera caught one of the presenters gesticulating at the audience to applaud?  How awkward.

    After a number of long and winding walks, I started to think that if I were a nominee sitting close to the front, I'd be convinced there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell I was going to win anything.


    Oh, so slowly and holding on (none / 0) (#130)
    by BeDazzled on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 06:08:07 PM EST
    the entire way.

    Did you see Anna Pacquin when she picked up her (none / 0) (#69)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 06:33:51 PM EST

    I too (none / 0) (#70)
    by lentinel on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 06:36:04 PM EST
    thought that Robin Wright was excellent in "House of Cards" - but I also feel that Julianna Margulies, star of "The Good Wife", had a part that demanded much greater range - and I think she displayed that.

    Your siblings were right (none / 0) (#129)
    by BeDazzled on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 06:06:15 PM EST
    Gravity doesn't deserve to even be among the nominees. How in the world The Book Thief was so ignored is beyond me. her is also seriously over-rated for awards - and I'm probably one of the few in the world who thinks American Hustle is just a remake of hundreds of easy to predict con movies already gone by.

    No, you're not alone. (none / 0) (#139)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 08:04:36 PM EST
    We enjoyed American Hustle and were thoroughly entertained, but given the virtual cascade of praises and accolades presently being showered upon it, I think that film's been way overrated by the critics. Was it a good movie? Yes, it was. Does it deserve an Oscar for best picture? No, not even close.

    Probably won't win the Oscar (none / 0) (#157)
    by ruffian on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 01:55:30 PM EST
    for Best Picture. 12 Years a Slave more likely, IMO. Or something I haven't seen - lots I did not see this year. Inside Llewyn Davis was really good too I thought.

    Dave Van Ronk.. (none / 0) (#163)
    by jondee on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 02:42:49 PM EST
    I keep hearing Inside Llewyn Davis is loosely based on on Van Ronk's early musical scuffling days around Greenwich Village..

    Leave to the Coen brothers to tap into a very fertile untapped vein of Americana and mine it for gold. Dave Van Ronk was one of the people who played "folk music" with real tears and dirt and laughter mixed into it and saved it from quaintness and suburban superficiality. And he let Bob sleep on his couch before before Bob became "Dylan"..


    I was hoping to see more of the old GV scene (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by ruffian on Thu Jan 16, 2014 at 07:10:26 PM EST
    but there was really not that much of that. Much of it was a long road trip to Chicago. But no one films winter like the Coens., and Oscar Isaac is riveting.

    I see neither even got niminated for oscars. Huh?


    Southwest Airlines (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Zorba on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 10:55:25 AM EST
    flight from Chicago's Midway International Airport was scheduled to land Sunday night at Branson Airport in southwest Missouri. Instead, the Boeing 737-700 touched down at Taney County's M. Graham Clark Downtown Airport, which is about 7 miles away and has a significantly shorter runway.

    The plane landed about 500 feet from the end of the runway, said Chris Berndt, the Western Taney County Fire District fire chief and emergency management director. Earlier, Jeff Bourk, Branson Airport's executive director, said the plane stopped 300 feet from the end of the runway.

    No one was injured, Berndt said Monday.

    Without the firm foot on the brakes, the plane could have overshot the end of the runway, tumbled down an embankment and onto U.S. Highway 65.


    You would think that this type of thing would no longer happen, but apparently, it does:

    In November, a mammoth cargo plane landed at the wrong airport in Wichita, Kansas -- one that typically does not accommodate such beasts and with a runway half a mile shorter than it usually uses.

    The Boeing 747 Dreamlifter was bound for McConnell Air Force Base from New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport. But instead of landing at the military airport on Wichita's southeast side, it landed at the much smaller, general aviation Col. James Jabara Airport on the northeast side. It eventually took off.

    In August 2012, a regional commuter plane landed at the wrong West Virginia airport.

    At least these were not as bad as the flight piloted by Douglas "Wrong Way" Corrigan, which was supposed to fly from Brooklyn to Long Beach, but wound up in Ireland.  Of course, that was back in 1938, when airplanes did not have all the navigational equipment they now have.

    From my vast repository of ... (none / 0) (#36)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 01:53:26 PM EST
    ... usually quite interesting but otherwise just-this-side-of-totally useless historical trivia:

    Douglas Corrigan had originally sought official permission to fly to Ireland from the federal Bureau of Air Commerce, later to become the Civil Aeronautics Board, which was declared obsolete and folded by the Reagan administration in 1984. But his request had been denied by the feds because his aircraft -- a single-engine Curtis Robin OX-5, which normally had a 90 hp engine -- had been deemed un-airworthy for such a then- hazardous transoceanic crossing.

    However, that particular aircraft was also considered qualified and suitable for transcontinental flight. So Corrigan, who had already modified his plane with a modified 165 hp engine and extra fuel tanks to make a trans-Atlantic crossing, dutifully amended and then filed his official flight plan with the BAC to travel nonstop from Brooklyn's Floyd Bennett Field in the opposite direction to Douglas Field in Long Beach, CA. But once airborne, he simply did a one-eighty and flew off to Ireland anyway, as was his original intent.

    It was only upon his return to the United States that Corrigan would later claim extensive navigational errors on his part, when the BAC questioned him on his abrupt change of course in violation of his filed flight plan. But the truth was that he was a very highly skilled aviator, and he no doubt knew exactly what he was doing.

    Corrigan's pilot's license was subsequently suspended by the BAC for a mere 14 days, which was a mere slap on the wrist thanks to all the publicity generated by his audacious (and probably foolhardy) stunt, which had captured the imagination of the general public. It is said that more people actually attended the August 1938 New York ticker-tape parade honoring ""Wrong Way" Corrigan, than the one honoring Charles Lindbergh for the exact same accomplishment 11 years earlier.

    I really don't think we'll be seeing any ticker-tape parades organized in that Southwest Airlines pilot's honor any time in the near-future.

    Aloha. :-D


    Heh, heh! (none / 0) (#37)
    by Zorba on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 01:58:47 PM EST
    I vaguely remember reading something about this a long time ago, that it was Corrigan's plan all along to fly to Ireland.
    I don't think that the SW pilot intended to fly to Taney County instead of Branson, though.    ;-)
    Bet the passengers were not happy.  But at least he didn't overshoot the short runway and kill a bunch of people.

    Any landing... (none / 0) (#75)
    by unitron on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 06:52:12 PM EST
    ...where you can outrun your angry passengers who were traveling to Branson specifically to see whoever has a theater there now that isn't dead yet is a good landing.

    ... has been flying in and out of Hickam AFB / HNL and MCB-Kaneohe Bay over the weekend through today. The PR office over at PACCOM and JB PH-HCK normally announces to the local public when major training exercises are underway, so people don't constantly call in about all the noise, wondering what's going on.

    But they haven't at said anything at all this past week. And so accordingly, I'm wondering what's going on.

    It may have something to do with China's (none / 0) (#94)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 11:12:58 PM EST
    recently unveiled plan to take Zhongye Island from the Philippines, where it's called Thitu or Pag-asa, in any case one of the Spratly island group in the South China Sea.  From the map in this link, you can see that China's territorial ambitions are extensive and invasive.  Or it could be related to Japan's recent announcement that it would be nationalizing 280 untitled islands.

    I believe there ought to be (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Coral Gables on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 07:21:39 AM EST
    a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf, the designated hitter, and spamming Jennifer Lawrence.

    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 247 (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Dadler on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 08:11:28 AM EST
    It's news to me Jared Leto (the crush interest (none / 0) (#1)
    by oculus on Sun Jan 12, 2014 at 09:19:21 PM EST
    in the wonderful "My So-Called Life," is acting again. Last I read he was touring w/his band.

    He said it was his first film in 8 yrs (none / 0) (#57)
    by ruffian on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 04:49:12 PM EST
    Or maybe 6?

    My but he has the most gorgeous eyes!


    Did anyone see the first episode (none / 0) (#4)
    by Anne on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 06:38:21 AM EST
    of HBO's new miniseries, "True Detective?"  

    Here's the description from the website:

     In 2012, Louisiana State Police Detectives Rust Cohle and Martin Hart are brought in to revisit a homicide case they worked in 1995. As the inquiry unfolds in present day through separate interrogations, the two former detectives narrate the story of their investigation, reopening unhealed wounds, and drawing into question their supposed solving of a bizarre ritualistic murder in 1995. The timelines braid and converge in 2012 as each man is pulled back into a world they believed they'd left behind. In learning about each other and their killer, it becomes clear that darkness lives on both sides of the law.

    Written and created by Nic Pizzolatto ('The Killing') and directed by Cary Fukunaga ('Sin Nombre,' 'Jane Eyre'), 'True Detective' stars Woody Harrelson as Martin Hart and Matthew McConaughey as Rust Cohle. The series also stars Michelle Monaghan (`Mission: Impossible III') as Maggie, Hart's wife; Kevin Dunn ('Veep') as Major Quesada, the supervising officer in 1995; and Tory Kittles ('Sons of Anarchy') and Michael Potts ('The Wire') as Dets. Papania and Gilbough, the investigators now probing Hart and Cohle for answers.

    It was dark, very dark; can't decide if I liked it - it was more like I was intrigued by it - but I'll keep watching, I think.

    I did see it, and agree (none / 0) (#14)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 10:22:29 AM EST
    that it is dark and holds potential for an enjoyable series.  It was off to a slow start, but the first episode was less physically confusing and more psychically kinetic than the first of Boardwalk Empire-a series I happily stuck with, so, like you, I plan to stay with 'True Detective' as it develops.  Matthew McConaughey, as his character Rust, appeaed gaunt--a contrast noted after just seeing a healthier-looking version on the Golden Globes.

    I watched (none / 0) (#95)
    by lentinel on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 04:33:33 AM EST
    about the first 15 minutes.

    It moved so slowly that I had to abandon ship.

    But since you and Anne hold out hope, I'll try again to finish the episode.


    We gave up HBO a long time ago. (none / 0) (#138)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 07:56:33 PM EST
    I'll just have to wait until it's released on NetFlix.

    I got around to watching it last night (none / 0) (#159)
    by ruffian on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 01:59:31 PM EST
    Love the relationship between the two leads - will keep watching to find out what happens there, and also how 1995 Matthew McConaughey turns into 2012 MM. That seems like the most intriguing part of the story.

    I am beyond tired of the by now rote for police dramas inclusion of a bizarrely killed and degraded woman as the centerpiece of the crime. Enough.


    Another aspect (none / 0) (#5)
    by jbindc on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 08:48:20 AM EST
    Of legalizing marijuana state by state:  Banking laws haven't caught up.

    Legal marijuana merchants like Mr. Kunkel -- mainly medical marijuana outlets but also, starting this year, shops that sell recreational marijuana in Colorado and Washington -- are grappling with a pressing predicament: Their businesses are conducted almost entirely in cash because it is exceedingly difficult for them to open and maintain bank accounts, and thus accept credit cards.

    The problem underscores the patchwork nature of federal and state laws that have evolved fitfully as states have legalized some form of marijuana commerce. Though 20 states and the District of Columbia allow either medical or recreational marijuana use -- with more likely to follow suit -- the drug remains illegal under federal law. The Controlled Substances Act, enacted in 1970 classifies marijuana as a Schedule I drug, the most dangerous category, which also includes heroin, LSD and ecstasy.

    As a result, banks, including state-chartered ones, are reluctant to provide traditional services to marijuana businesses. They fear that federal regulators and law enforcement authorities might punish them, with measures like large fines, for violating prohibitions on money-laundering, among other federal laws and regulations.

    "Banking is the most urgent issue facing the legal cannabis industry today," said Aaron Smith, executive director of the National Cannabis Industry Association in Washington, D.C. Saying legal marijuana sales in the United States could reach $3 billion this year, Mr. Smith added: "So much money floating around outside the banking system is not safe, and it is not in anyone's interest. Federal law needs to be harmonized with state laws."

    They need to form... (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by unitron on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 01:22:52 PM EST
    ...their own credit union.

    Minor quibble... (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 09:54:43 AM EST
    I think Aaron Smith has this bit backwards...

    So much money floating around outside the banking system is not safe...

    Much safer out than in, in my book...but I realize that's a minority opinion, and there's a lot more zeros involved than my personal bankless finances. ;)

    And isn't it ironic that banks are objecting to the legal under state law marijuana business, while some banks have notoriously worked with the Mexican and Colombian cartels to launder black market drug money?  


    Fair point (none / 0) (#11)
    by jbindc on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 09:58:28 AM EST
    Very safe. Especially if your photo (none / 0) (#21)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 11:27:41 AM EST
    is in the NYT along w/ the location of your business and the info you frequently carry vast amounts of cash in paper grocery bags. What could go wrong?

    A lot less than... (none / 0) (#22)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 11:36:22 AM EST
    what could go wrong with the credit and debit cards...see Target.

    But point taken...if I was rolling in that kinda cash I'd like to think I'd still stay away from banksters, but would likely have to reconsider my position on owning a firearm.


    It's Unsafe... (none / 0) (#23)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 11:43:29 AM EST
    ...in that everyone knows they are a strictly cash businesses.

    Beyond all the banking your banking dislikes, not being able to take CC or Debit cards leaves all these businesses susceptible to robberies.

    In that first week, the roughly 36 licensed businesses did around $5M in sales.  That is $700k+ a day, and about $20k a day for each store.  That is an unsafe amount of cash to have on-hand, especially when it's common knowledge.  I wonder what some of these places were holding after the initial weekend, conceivably $100k.

    Their choices are making multiple deposits a day or keeping it in a safe and eventually making the occasional monster deposit.

    The ridiculous bank stuff is literally putting their employees in harms way.  I get nervous when I have more than a couple hundo in my pocket, I can't imagine ~$20k every day.  Think of other cash only businesses, like pawn shops, they are like fortresses, and it's unfair that businesses are being forced to deal with that aspect just because the Fed doesn't want them taking plastic.  In the end, most of it, is ending up in the same place, the bank.  They just have to make physical deposits rather than electronic ones.

    You can argue the banks are unsafe, but in reality, they are very safe for individual deposits.  On the macro level, your argument certainly rings true, but that is an different conversation.


    I hear ya... (none / 0) (#26)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 12:16:05 PM EST
    a lot of our plumbing supply distributor customers deal in big wads of cash...sometimes our outside guys are dispatched to pick up five figure envelope payments in not so nice neighborhoods...they hate it.

    Another thing to consider is federal law...do the retailers really wanna leave all the fruit of their labor in a bank only to have the DEA swoop in and seize it should they so choose?  I'd be very leery of that kinda theft too.


    Could be more trouble down the road for Christie. (none / 0) (#6)
    by Angel on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 09:03:06 AM EST
    But he's such a nice guy (none / 0) (#8)
    by Dadler on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 09:16:34 AM EST
    And he says he's not a bully.

    Boo hoo.

    I'm still waiting for him to say "I'm really not the malevolently stupid clown that stands before you now" with any sort of conviction.

    Where there's smoke with this guy, you just know there's a giant barbecue where he's stuffing his metaphorical face.


    Yes he denies being a bully. (none / 0) (#29)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 12:35:06 PM EST
    But, he does admit to being a dupe-- a dubious hallmark for a leader.   And, of course, we know he considers himself a leader, unlike his assessment of President Obama, who he claimed in pre-Sandy Republican pep rallies is: "like a man wandering around a dark room, hands up against the wall, clutching for the light switch of leadership and he just can't find it."   As for Christie, it is just that his cronies and  top staff keeps him in the dark.  

    Obviously a political (none / 0) (#12)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 10:09:09 AM EST

    But then, after all, it is the Obama administration.


    You're right (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 10:26:28 AM EST
    All they have to support the charge is thousands of pages of communications outlining the conspiracy in the words of the participants over several months.

    Who ya gonna believe, Christie, or a couple of thousand signed incriminating documents?


    Oh, yeah. It's soooooooooo obviously a (none / 0) (#17)
    by Angel on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 10:50:51 AM EST
    political prosecution.  Care to back up your comment with some facts?  And no Faux Noise talking points, either.  Those don't count.  :)

    a politically motivated witchhunt (none / 0) (#19)
    by jondee on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 11:01:21 AM EST
    has been the boilerplate wingnut response to everything from investigating the machinations of Tom Delay to Iran Contra to Watergate.

    Jim's a man who calls 'em like they see 'em.


    uh oh, Grammar patrol to the rescue: (none / 0) (#25)
    by NYShooter on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 12:09:46 PM EST
    I believe you meant to say, "Jim's a man who calls'em like they tell him to call'em."

    There, all fixed.

    oh yeah, I forgot.......lol.


    well (none / 0) (#31)
    by jondee on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 01:05:13 PM EST
    it's a play on "he call's 'em like he see's 'em", which was, I believe, originally a quote from some baseball umpire in the twenties; not Dr Samuel Johnson.

    Try some common sense, Angel (none / 0) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 02:46:08 PM EST
    Or do you think only Repubs are evileeee??

    Or did you miss the 2008 nomination battle among Hillary and Obama??


    Hey now... (none / 0) (#46)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 02:55:58 PM EST
    Hillary's minions 2008 enemies list consists of Democrats...and to our knowledge they did not use their powers to punish their constiuents like Christie's minions did.

    I'd say living in and around (none / 0) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 03:18:15 PM EST
    NYC is punishment enough.


    Seriously, a nice place to visit.....


    Manhattan is punishment? (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by MKS on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 09:10:27 AM EST
    Don't think so.  

    Many, many would love to live there.  But cost of living....

    The kids in Southern California have little interest in traveling.  Everything is here.  The exceptions:  San Francisco, which they call "The City" and never refer to it as "Frisco" (which would be an act of sacrilege), and Hawaii--and New York.....

    You and Palin think "real" America is only some mythical Mayberry RFD.


    Right (none / 0) (#66)
    by Yman on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 06:03:38 PM EST
    Much better to live somewhere in the bible belt with lousy schools so everyone can remain blissfully ignorant.

    You really want to defend the (none / 0) (#77)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 08:35:38 PM EST
    slums and school system of NYC?



    Actually, you said the "NYC area" (none / 0) (#81)
    by Yman on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 08:47:09 PM EST
    ... and I'd put it up against your school's bible-belt ignorance any day of the week.

    Well Yman (none / 0) (#190)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 18, 2014 at 02:23:52 PM EST
    There you go again.

    Making things up.

    How sleazy of you.


    "making up" nothing, Jim (none / 0) (#192)
    by Yman on Sat Jan 18, 2014 at 02:33:56 PM EST
    Try reading your own posts.

    I'd say living in and around (none / 0) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 03:18:15 PM EST
    NYC is punishment enough.

    BTW - We have some of the best public (and private) schools in the entire country.  


    better to live in a place (none / 0) (#114)
    by jondee on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 10:17:20 AM EST
    where they don't believe in schools or "secular" knowledge at all..

    Granted... (none / 0) (#115)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 10:20:52 AM EST
    Bloomberg did a number on the schools by appointing chancellors who have never taught and and over-emphasizing standardized testing...but other than that our public schools have always kicked arse.  

    Case in point, I'm a product of NYC public education Grades K-8;)


    Overtaxed and overcriminalized... (none / 0) (#110)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 09:46:42 AM EST
    to be sure...but great culture, great food, and most of all great people.  It'll always be home.

    If only someone would punish me by making me (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 11:15:25 AM EST
    lice in Manhatten w/free room and board.  

    I hear ya... (none / 0) (#118)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 11:23:07 AM EST
    if it's so bad here, why is half the midwest living the hipster life in Brooklyn?  Riddle me that Jim;)

    Yesterday I read the NYT article about Co-Op City. (none / 0) (#121)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 11:39:45 AM EST
    I need to get on that waiting list.

    Waiting for you to back up your comment with (none / 0) (#54)
    by Angel on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 04:45:22 PM EST
    some cold hard facts, jimakaPPJ.  

    Hmmmm, I guess you have missed (none / 0) (#78)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 08:36:36 PM EST
    that Hillary had an enemies list.



    Hmmmmm, I guess you missed ... (none / 0) (#84)
    by Yman on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 08:51:42 PM EST
    ... that having political opponents (or even "enemies") is not a "political prosecution".

    Yman, the Left thought Nixon's was (none / 0) (#191)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 18, 2014 at 02:24:42 PM EST
    Really? The "Left" did? (none / 0) (#193)
    by Yman on Sat Jan 18, 2014 at 02:37:51 PM EST
    Strange ... who was being "prosecuted" for political purposes by Hillary Clinton?  Be specific, Jim ... it'll be even easier to demonstrate how embarrassingly silly these lies are.

    That's what you've got, Jim? (none / 0) (#67)
    by Yman on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 06:05:29 PM EST
    Do you really think your utterly complete lack of any evidence to back up your silly claims isn't transparent?

    Yman, your love for me is (none / 0) (#80)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 08:37:20 PM EST



    STILL not a shred of evidence ... (none / 0) (#82)
    by Yman on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 08:48:12 PM EST
    ... as always.

    Well, I would write something (5.00 / 0) (#108)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 09:23:02 AM EST
    but you would just misquote me....

    BTW - You must live in a cave if you think we don't have proof that Obama and his minions knew it was a terrorist attack by 9/12.....

    Yet, because Obama didn't want to admit he had screwed up they lied and lied and lied by claiming it was caused by a video.

    Despicable doesn't even begin to describe them.


    Show me the evidence (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by MKS on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 09:31:31 AM EST
    It is very illuminating to read your comments.

    I often wonder how the conservatives peddle their propaganda. How is it that the operatives convince the Republican base of such nonsense?  It is amazing to watch the conservative lemmings repeat the day's talking points as if it were the Nicene Creed.

    You show us how that happens.  You hear something, somewhere in conservative media, and you accept it as Gospel--without question.  And, then it is repeated to you as an ongoing liturgy in the conservative press--again, without proof.  And then you repeat it here, over and over again.  Rote, robotic repetition.  

    When questioned about your proof, you recite none, but repeat the scripted lines.

    Fascinating.  But truly sad.


    So, how come you can never cite any (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by Anne on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 10:13:34 AM EST
    proof, jim?  How come with you and Mikado Cat it's always "common knowledge" or "conventional wisdom," and never any real evidence or support people can assess?

    Jesus, Mary and Joseph...you're like the Conspiracy Edition of the Chatty Cathy doll: pull the string and we get a selection that ranges from "Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghaaaaazi!!!" to "Fast and Furious" to "IRS!  IRS!" to "Global warming is a myth!"

    I am far from being a big fan of Democrats, or Obama; I'm pretty much fed up with the lot of them, across the board, actually.  But squawking the daily litany of conspiracy theories like an obsessed parrot on speed isn't convincing anyone that the GOP is less despicable or more honorable than the Democrats.  It's not a winning strategy, jim - it's just noise designed to mask the fact that Republicans got nothin' but the same old, tired ideas that haven't worked any time they've been tried.


    There isn't (none / 0) (#143)
    by Mikado Cat on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 10:41:41 PM EST
    any media source both of us would trust, so very often there is just no point in offering sources. Most of the media simply won't say anything bad about Obama, something related to never being allowed to attend one of his "press" meetings again.

    Information that isn't too tainted is available, but its not my job to lead you every source of water on earth when you clearly have no desire to drink water instead of koolaid.


    Perhaps better to not comment (none / 0) (#173)
    by MKS on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 11:51:33 PM EST
    at all if you will not even attempt to support your comments.

    How would anyone (none / 0) (#174)
    by Mikado Cat on Thu Jan 16, 2014 at 03:36:40 AM EST
    help you learn about alternate opinions?

    I've been on the net a long time in many topics, and your notion that some holy reference exists to prove any point is false. Ideas need to stand on there own with each person satisfying themselves about the underlying information.


    Are you guys allergic (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by MKS on Thu Jan 16, 2014 at 08:09:43 AM EST
    to citing facts or evidence?

    No more allergic (none / 0) (#184)
    by Mikado Cat on Thu Jan 16, 2014 at 09:05:56 PM EST
    than some are to any opinion that differs from there own. We just share few sources of facts both count as reliable.

    I may not agree with you, but I don't disrespect your opinion out of hand.


    When you offer your opinions ... (none / 0) (#187)
    by Yman on Thu Jan 16, 2014 at 10:05:57 PM EST
    ... and speculative theories presented as fact - with no evidence to support them - they aren't entitled to any respect.

    No "holy reference" required (none / 0) (#177)
    by Yman on Thu Jan 16, 2014 at 06:39:01 AM EST
    Just some actual evidence to support what are otherwise nothing more than specious allegations.  The former is far more convincing than the latter, which is worthless.

    "Proof"??? (none / 0) (#132)
    by Yman on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 06:45:56 PM EST
    And yet you can't even cite a single shred.

    Go figure.

    BTW - I quote you accurately, unlike your habit of posting false quotes (aka lies) on your own blog.


    You folks tickle me (1.00 / 2) (#152)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 09:25:13 AM EST
    It is all over the media that Obama was told it was a terrorist attack within an hour...

    And you demand proof??

    Really?? You are jokes.


    "All over" - heh (none / 0) (#170)
    by Yman on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 07:39:58 PM EST
    Yet you still can't produce a single link.


    Speaking of "jokes" ...


    He's got you there, Yman (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by NYShooter on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 09:31:59 PM EST
    When the only media you watch comes from one network........

    That is a pretty weak defense (none / 0) (#35)
    by MKS on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 01:39:46 PM EST
    You know the allegation on the misuse of funds was that Christie turned down an advertising bid that cost much less in favor of a more expensive ad that featured his family during his re-election campaign.

    Your boy is in trouble.  There is always Rand Paul and Ted Cruz.  


    Gives new meaning... (none / 0) (#39)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 02:09:26 PM EST
    to the advertising slogan in question..."Stronger than the Storm".  Time will tell;)

    MKS, if you are going to comment (none / 0) (#49)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 03:21:12 PM EST
    please try and be accurate. Christie is not "my boy."

    Or man either....

    BTW. Can you imagine the explosion if someone called Obama "Your boy?"

    Not that hypocrisy is unheard of around here.



    Then why are you defending Christie? (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 04:55:37 PM EST
    Oh yeah, he apologized for something he claims he knew absolutely nothing about and wasn't his fault, and fired a few people in his inner circle not because they were involved in an unconscionable and inexcusable abuse of executive authority, but because they lied to him personally about it.

    But for the four months prior, he did nothing, nada, zippo about it, except trash talk the reporters who were then investigating what eventually turned out to be a major political scandal.

    Incidentally, if the governor actually does somehow manage to survive this scandal, it will certainly be at the price of his previously vaunted reputation as a hands-on administrator. Taking his story entirely at face value, he obviously doesn't know his a$$ from his elbow when it comes to what's be going on under his own nose within his own chambers at the Statehouse in Trenton.

    But then, I think that deep down inside, you probably know as well as I do that given the numbers of top administration officials presently implicated in this self-immolating political storm, the odds of Christie not knowing anything at all about it are probably somewhere between slim and none.

    From last Friday's document dump, we now know about the Sept. 19, 2013 correspondence from State Senator Loretta Weinberg (D-Bergen County) and Port Authority Commissioner Pat Schuber, expressing serious concern about the lane closures and lack of official accountability thereof, in which both Gov. Christie and his own appointed Port Authority chairman, David Samson, were personally copied.

    Most certainly, the governor current chief of staff Regina Egea knew all about it last September. In her former capacity as Christie's director of authorities, she was copied on the damning Sept. 13 chain of e-mails from the Port Authority's executive director, Patrick Foye, who was incensed that such lane closures were conducted without first notifying him, as per agency protocol.

    We also now know that Christie's campaign manager Bill Stepien discussed with appointed Port Authority executive David Wildstein the growing public relations problems associated with efforts to contain the scandal.

    And we now know that Michael Drewniak, the governor's media spokesperson, also met with Wildstein last December, one week before Wildstein abruptly resigned his office.

    Further, the governor has yet to explain why he also called New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo last December, with a request that he rein in his own Port Authority appointee Patrick Foye, who had launched an internal agency probe into the matter.

    If Christie and his minstrels didn't know about the massive problems being caused by the GWB onramp lane closures, it's because they either didn't want to know, or they were willfully derelict in their duties -- and thus, they have no business running the State of New Jersey. Either way, I wouldn't want to be in the governor's shoes this week. He's got some very serious self-induced problems which are mounting, and I'm left to wonder whether he'll make it out of there alive.



    Oh, Donald, why do you keep letting facts (none / 0) (#60)
    by Anne on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 05:06:08 PM EST
    get in the way of the fevered conspiracy dreams of people like jim?

    You are such a killjoy...

    But, I must give you a tip of the hat for the reference to the New Christy Minstrels...even if it shows your age a little, though.


    Well, that certainly calls for a ... (none / 0) (#63)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 05:24:46 PM EST
    ... Velveeta-dripping YouTube recording of the New Christy Minstrels in action.

    (Sigh!) Were only John Belushi there at the time.

    Actually, I was probably a little past toddler stage when the New Christy Minstrels were all the rage, if that's an appropriate term for them, and my mother really liked both them and the Kingston Trio, and so we heard their records being played all the time -- to my elder Beatles-lovin' sister's consternation.

    But Mom's forgiven, because she also loved Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, Neil Diamond, Buffalo Springfield and Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young, and her own musical tastes would evolve left of mainstream during the 1960s and '70s.



    How do you know... (none / 0) (#72)
    by unitron on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 06:44:55 PM EST
    ...he wasn't referring to Edwin Pearce Christy's original group?

    Edwin Pearce Christy? (none / 0) (#89)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 09:38:41 PM EST
    Who dat?

    Who dat say who dat... (none / 0) (#96)
    by unitron on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 05:13:13 AM EST
    ...when I say who dat?

    Donald, I apoloogize (none / 0) (#83)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 08:49:40 PM EST
    for not letting Anne answer for me...


    And if you have been paying attention you should have noticed that I'm not defending Christie, just noting the feeding frenzy all you Left wing Demos have went into... and pointing out a few of the things that Obama and Hillary have been and are currently involved in.

    In fact, I have even noted that you folks may well be doing the Repubs a big favor by, if you are successful, in destroying Christie, given that the RINOS of the last two elections have lost.

    Not, I'll note, that I have no way of knowing if an out and out conservative can win.... but they couldn't do any worse.

    And to devote so much time to a happening that 99.999999999999999999% of the country is not affected by seems silly to a lot of us out here in flyover country. Most of us think living there is their choice and (*it happens.

    But enjoy. I know that after Benghazi, IRSgate, Fast and Furious and the failing of Obamacare you guys need something to make you feel better.


    By that logic (none / 0) (#85)
    by Yman on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 08:54:45 PM EST
    99.99999999999% of the country wasn't affected by "Benghazi, IRSgate, Fast and Furious and the failing of Obamacare" ...

    Probably not the other 0.0000000001% either, given that they're silly wingnut, conspiracy myths.


    Yman, how sleazy of you (none / 0) (#105)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 09:15:08 AM EST
    to take my comment regarding Christie and then try and make it look like I said something I did not... quotation marks and all.

    But thanks for displaying who and what you are.



    Just using your "logic", Jim (none / 0) (#133)
    by Yman on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 06:47:54 PM EST
    Hence, the reason I used those words.

    I understand why you suddenly don't appreciate your own "logic", though ...


    No, what you did was (1.00 / 1) (#153)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 09:26:46 AM EST
    try and claim I wrote something I did not.

    Sleazy and despicable describes your actions.


    Reading comprehension (none / 0) (#171)
    by Yman on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 07:40:52 PM EST
    Up here in the "NYC area", it's something we learn.

    Schadenfreude, baby! (none / 0) (#87)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 09:14:53 PM EST
    Jim: "But enjoy. I know that after Benghazi, IRSgate, Fast and Furious and the failing of Obamacare you guys need something to make you feel better."

    Trust me, I am. After months of listening ad nauseum about the manufactured scandals concocted by Darrell Issa and the House Oversight Committee, to see this type of real-life wrongdoing finally get some much-warranted attention from the Beltway media is refreshing. And I must say, it really couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

    Finally, suffice to say that the GOP's hapless attempts to change the subject from Chris Christie, by once again beating their long-since-dead horses in public, are the equivalent of Gertrude Stein's pithy quip about Oakland. There's no there, there.

    Have a nice evening.


    Donald, and I am glad that you are glad (none / 0) (#106)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 09:18:38 AM EST
    After all, I am here only to serve those who have appointed themselves our masters.

    But just what Repub has been trying to change the subject??

    Can I have some facts?

    Please Sir, I want some more.



    New Jersey U.S. Attorney Paul Fishman (none / 0) (#44)
    by Peter G on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 02:47:52 PM EST
    is a total professional.  He is a Democrat, yes, but he is not a politician.

    You know, where's BTD when we need him ... (none / 0) (#38)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 02:00:47 PM EST
    ... to set the odds and over-under, as to the political probability of Gov. Christie even surviving the winter or spring?

    Well.... (none / 0) (#40)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 02:25:00 PM EST
    ...THIS place has him at 10/1 to become the next US President.  That means if you put down a buck and he wins, you get 10.

    Keep in mind, line is calculated by the dollars put down, not the actually odds of it occurring so it may take a bit to catch up to the latest.

    There is no line for him leaving office.

    FYI, Michelle Obama is 300/1 and Hillary is at 2/1 to be the next President.


    There isn't enough money that would (none / 0) (#65)
    by Anne on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 05:37:59 PM EST
    make electing someone like Christie, or any of the whack-a-doodle Republicans, worthwhile.  

    Well, except I could buy myself an island, I guess.


    It would be nice to win... (none / 0) (#73)
    by unitron on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 06:46:59 PM EST
    ...enough money so that we could buy our own politicians.

    The sort of money (none / 0) (#175)
    by Mikado Cat on Thu Jan 16, 2014 at 03:40:40 AM EST
    we are talking about that runs politicians is far beyond any lotto pot.

    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 246 (none / 0) (#7)
    by Dadler on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 09:11:51 AM EST
    I love stories like this (none / 0) (#9)
    by jbindc on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 09:47:10 AM EST
    and I'm in the Elks... (none / 0) (#34)
    by unitron on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 01:26:24 PM EST
    ...now get out of that tree.

    That's right (none / 0) (#13)
    by jbindc on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 10:20:15 AM EST
    A car and a truck from and American company win top honors.

    Great news for GM and union labor.

    Detroit Auto Show: Chevrolet Corvette and Chevrolet Silverado named North American Car and Truck of the Year

    An award given at the Detroit Auto Show (none / 0) (#16)
    by Coral Gables on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 10:43:42 AM EST
    only for cars made in North America is a shallow award, no? Additionally, in what world does a Corvette compete against a Mazda3?

    Here's the top 10 from Consumer Reports for best value:

    Toyota Prius Four
    Honda Fit
    Scion xB
    Subaru Forester 2.5i
    Volkswagen Golf
    Toyota Corolla LE Plus
    Volkswagen Golf TDI (manual)
    Honda Civic EX
    Honda Civic Hybrid
    Subaru Impreza Premium


    Give me (2.00 / 1) (#20)
    by jbindc on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 11:13:33 AM EST
    A car from an American company (GM or Ford) any day of the week over a Toyota, Honda, Volkswagen, etc. Blech.

    Better cars, better for the economy, supports Democratic ideals (union labor), great for a new CEO at the helm (a female!) - to name a few.

    And this award is actually one of the premier awards of the year in the auto industry and is not voted on by just a single publication - like Consumer Reports - but instead voted on by auto journalists and experts, and is given at the largest auto show in North America (and maybe the world, depending on who is judging).

    (And I bet you didn't have that feeling when a Hyundai won Car of the Year.)


    Except for trucks, Toyota makes cars in the U.S. (none / 0) (#24)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 12:00:35 PM EST
    for sale here.

    Profits (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by jbindc on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 12:19:56 PM EST
    still go to Tokyo.

    And they are not union shops.


    And Japan (none / 0) (#28)
    by jbindc on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 12:23:26 PM EST
    Has a 6 percent import penetration rate for automobiles vs. an average around the world of around a 45 percent import penetration rate.

    The US imports about $2 billion to Japanese markets, while Japan imports over $53 billion here.

    There's more than just actual cars made here.


    Without Looking All the Models Up... (none / 0) (#30)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 12:39:32 PM EST
    Camry, Hybrid Camry, Avalon and Venza

    Tundra & Tacoma.

    Sequoia, Sienna & Highlander.

    Toyota Engine Manufacturing

    Corolla, Matrix, Lexus RX 350, RAV4, and they have a wheel manufacturing plant.

    Honda CR-V, Honda Crosstour, Acura RDX

    Acura ZDX, Honda Civic, Honda CR-V

    Honda Civic, Honda Civic GX NGV, Honda Civic, Hybrid, Acura ILX

    Honda Odyssey, Honda Pilot, Honda Ridgeline, Acura MDX, Honda J engine

    Honda Accord, Acura TL, Acura NSX

    Chevrolet Volt, Opel Ampera, Chevrolet Malibu, Chevrolet Impala, Cadillac ELR, Silverado/Sierra, Chevrolet Traverse, GMC Acadia, Buick Enclave, Cadillac CTS, Cadillac ATS, Chevrolet Sonic
    Buick Verano,

    Escalade, Suburban, Tahoe, Yukon, Yukon XL

    Chevrolet Malibu, Buick LaCrosse


    Chevrolet Equinox, Ecotec 2.0 Turbo, Ecotec 2.4

    Express, Savana

    Cadillac XTS, Buick Regal, Chevrolet Impala, Chevrolet Camaro, Chevrolet Equinox

    No real point here other than plenty of foreign car manufactures manufacture and assemble their cars in the US.

    IMO, the only reason US car manufactures are gaining market share is because the quality of the biggest competitor, Toyota has take some serious hits the past couple years.  The US just doesn't have the quality in their products and they are far too resistant to change to ever be the force they used to be.

    It's not American workers, almost all car manufactures have plants in the US, it's always been the US management model, which is not built for reacting to customer demands quickly and efficiently.

    Think hybrids and electric cars, always trying to catch up to the Japanese because their models are more of giving customers what they have, not what they want.  Just my personal opinion.


    Actually, (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by jbindc on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 02:27:56 PM EST
    US and foreign brand cars have been at least equal in terms of quality , and in many cases, actually surpassed that of foreign-made cars for several years now.  Part of the problem is the perception that American cars aren't just as good, and that is a perception that is incorrect.

    And, anecdotally, we've had a lot of cars in my family and the only two that gave us problems (and their service centers were less than helpful) was a Renault encore and a Toyota Corolla.  We're mostly a GM family, and aside from minor things, or major wear and tear, we haven't had a bad car yet. (And I am including first cousins and aunts and uncles).  My dad drove three Chevy vans to almost 200,000 miles each.


    Yup on both paragraphs. (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 04:17:11 PM EST
    And for another anecdotal, my 2000 Dodge Durango just hit 200,000.

    I remember as a kid when 100,000 seemed so rare.


    My '96 Toyota Camry is at 185,000 miles. (none / 0) (#76)
    by vml68 on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 07:14:24 PM EST
    I really wanted to keep it till 200,000 but have decided not to. Except for regular maintenance like oil changes, tires, brake pads, etc., I have never had to do any other work on that car. And, as an added bonus, I get excellent gas mileage, 35 mi/gal-hwy and about 30 for city!

    My 2002 Camry has 120,000 miles (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 09:40:44 PM EST
    on it. Service mgr. says this could be my last car!!!!   He says I could drive it to 300,000 on the original engine. However, the outside finish is pretty bad. No rust. Just lots of dings.

    Why are you not keeping the Camry? (none / 0) (#91)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 09:42:15 PM EST
    Moving to FL in a couple of months and (none / 0) (#93)
    by vml68 on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 10:28:59 PM EST
    don't want to move 2 cars.

    For the past few years, I've mostly only driven it when I am going on long drives out of town/state by myself. I love driving it because it is still so smooth.
    My husband had a Mercedes SUV and I hated driving it. So, when we decided we would go down to one car because we use the PATH and Subway system most of the time, I voted to keep the Camry.

    We went back to owning two cars a few months ago because we were getting ready to buy a house in the 'burbs. Then the move to FL came up. The cost to move the Camry is probably more than the cost of the car. I don't think it is worth it financially.


    Define Quality... (none / 0) (#123)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 03:16:10 PM EST
    ...because from where I stand, I don't see it, I grew up with American cars and worked on them for years.  Much like Harley Davison motorcycles, you need 10,000 tools to work on them, nothing fits as it should, and are always a step behind in design, as in engineering.  which means there will always be a bolt or a nut that is nearly impossible to locate, much less remove.

    I would never consider any machine that combines metric and SAE a quality product.  That is just silly.  I remember my dad's friend constantly complaining about changing the oil in his Pontiac because it required removing a motor mount and no one but the dealer would do it.  Or needing about 10 tools and an hour to replace a Cadillac headlamp because some genius put the battery box right behind it.  American machines are notorious for jamming stuff in without any thought how it will be repaired.

    So maybe the people who buy their cars give them better ratings that others, but that in no way makes it a quality product, it just means the people who buy them are easier to please.  And the Detroit car show, the Corvette, really:

    Corvette competed against two other finalists, Cadillac CTS and Mazda3.

    Huh ?

    And as mentioned earlier, the reason they are making market share is because the quality of their main competitor, Toyota, has taken some major blows this past couple years.  It's like getting an A, when you should have gotten a B, because the grading curve included the idiots who never show up to class.  The quality of work wasn't better, only the quality of the competition decreased.

    Granted, I haven't owned an American car in years, and maybe it has changed, but let's not forget why everyone thinks American aren't as good, because for decades they weren't.  And without Obama and Co some of them wouldn't even exist because of low quality and bad management, which of course they blamed on the very unions you buy their products to support.


    With few exceptions, cars are so close (none / 0) (#125)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 03:39:44 PM EST
    With few exceptions, cars are so close on reliability that it's getting harder for companies to charge a premium. So automakers are trying to set themselves apart with sleek, cutting-edge exterior designs and more features such as luxurious interiors, multiple air bags, dashboard computers and touch-screen controls.
    "It's very hard to find products that aren't good anymore," says Jeremy Anwyl, CEO of the Edmunds.com automotive website. "In safety, performance and quality, the differences just don't have material impact."

    Agreed... (none / 0) (#156)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 01:17:52 PM EST
    Me personally, longevity isn't part of the equation beyond resale value, which is probably the best indication of quality.  It accurately reflects what other people, aka the market, views the quality of any vehicle, which would include longevity and the cost of maintenance.  

    American cars, lag behind, at times significantly, in resale values.  Once they start matching the competition, then they can start talking about their quality products.


    I'm not sure I accept resale value as THE (none / 0) (#162)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 02:29:10 PM EST
    indicator of quality, I'd say it's similar to buying a new car where quality is just one of the factors considered.

    Anyway, according to AutoGuide, Japanese autos and in particular Toyota/Lexus/Scion, have the best resale value.

    In fact, of the top 10, 8 are Japanese (6 Toyota/Lexus/Scion & 2 Hondas, Civic & CRV) 1 is German (Porsche SUV) and 1 American.

    From this, if you accept your metric, I think the main conclusion is that the entire world lags behind Japan in quality.

    The one American car is the Jeep Wrangler, make of that what you will!


    That Wasn't Exactly What I Was Saying (none / 0) (#164)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 04:10:29 PM EST
    It's the best metric for judging quality, not saying it's not flawed or that advertizing doesn't effect perceived quality, just that it's the best metric out there.

    Fair enough. (none / 0) (#165)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 04:39:09 PM EST
    I find the opposite... (none / 0) (#126)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 03:57:31 PM EST
    I used to change my own oil in my piece of sh*t '87 Mercury Cougar, no problem.  When I started driving Japanese they made the oil filters so damn hard to get to I stopped doing it myself.

    Not that I'm a handy mechanic or anything, it'a all greek to me except a basic oil change..but my old man was a very handy mechanic and he used to be able to take American cars apart and put them back together back in the 60's-70's...something he would not even begin to attempt with Japanese cars in the 80's-90's....way too complicated.

    No disputing the higher quality of Japanese & Korean cars in the 80's and 90's...I'd say it's even now but the old reputation of American pieces of sh*t is hard to break.  It might take Japan and Korea rolling out clunkers big time to change the perception.



    That is More a Function of Time... (none / 0) (#155)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 12:50:18 PM EST
    ...that design.

    You are comparing car that predate electronic ignitions and front wheel drive with cars that have them.  Because once that became the industry standard, cars got infinitely harder to work on.  And once transmissions and power trains were pushed under the hood, while simultaneously decreasing their sizes, working on them became a much more arduous task.

    Now, beyond maybe changing oil and air filters, there isn't much one can do under the hood without a computer code reader.

    It's why people love muscle cars, they can actually work on them because they are simple machines with coil/distributor rather than an ECM, aka a computer.  


    I see said the blind man.. (none / 0) (#158)
    by kdog on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 01:59:22 PM EST
    Thanks...Donnie is (once again) out of his element.

    ICP and ACLU v FBI (none / 0) (#45)
    by ragebot on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 02:53:08 PM EST
    Back on the boat after watching my 'noles win the natty.  Catching up on stuff and this is a little late but

    How the fuck does an injunction work

    Language, please. (none / 0) (#47)
    by jbindc on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 03:07:24 PM EST
    Give 'em hell... (none / 0) (#51)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 03:29:51 PM EST
    ICP & ACLU...the FBI & DOJ are way outta line picking on the Juggalos.  

    Nobody would call my pal Oculus and her opera buddies a gang.


    No, they wouldn't. (none / 0) (#61)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 05:06:38 PM EST
    Rather, they probably seek only to be a enlightening flash mob.



    You must be referring to the Ringheads, of which (none / 0) (#74)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 06:49:01 PM EST
    I am not a member.

    Made me google... (none / 0) (#111)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 09:55:32 AM EST
    Holy sh*t there really is an opera gang!  I was only joking.

    Has anybody told Holder & Comey about this classical music appreciating menace? ;)


    An injunction is simply a court order (none / 0) (#52)
    by Peter G on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 04:00:30 PM EST
    directing the named parties to stop doing something that the judge has determined (tentatively or finally) to be illegal. If they don't stop, the judge can then hold them in contempt of court. In other words, in contrast with other kinds of civil cases, it does not look to remedy past illegalities, by awarding money damages; it looks to control future conduct. Did I understand your question correctly, Ragebot?

    Juggalo Alert (none / 0) (#68)
    by ragebot on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 06:08:41 PM EST
    for all you non Juggalos out there.  IPC is commonly used to identify the Insane Clown Possie which according to their fans is a musical group.  In 2012 the FBI designated Juggalos a gang because at IPC Gatherings Juggalos would not only smoke pot, some of them were selling it, not to mention using foul language.

    IPC's most popular, and probably well known, song is


    The most quoted line from the song is a question concerning how magnetism works where the "F" word is prominent in the question.  So my rhetorical question about how injunctions work was a lameo attempt at making a joke.

    As someone who is humor impaired I am requesting reasonable accommodations for my disability and extend an apology for any TL under 18 years of age for which my post was not suitable.


    LOL. My nephew was really into ICP. (none / 0) (#88)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 09:35:45 PM EST
    But then, he was 13 years old at the time, associated the use of profanity with adulthood, and had yet to learn the fine adult art of judicious cussing.

    As for me, I just rolled my eyes and laughed the first time I saw Insane Clown Passe's schtick. And let's get real here. When white guys try to rap, it IS schtick.



    I guess you've never heard... (none / 0) (#112)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 10:03:36 AM EST
    of the Beastie Boys, Eminem, MC Serch...skilled MC's all, and all a lighter shade of pale.

    And Pat Boone sang R&B, too. (none / 0) (#136)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 07:45:13 PM EST
    Suffice to say that none of those artists cited, with the possible exception of Eminem, offer me any reason to change my opinion. I feel the same way about them, too.

    While I don't relate to rap and hip-hop personally, I recognize it as a legitimate artistic expression, one which is further rooted in the African American inner city experience. Fairly or not, I tend to see white rappers more as recording company marketing gimmicks than as consummate artists.

    While they might make rap fashionable for white audiences, groups such as Insane Clown Posse and The Beastie Boys are doing little more than mimicry. They've got the cadence and beat down, but their resulting work product is missing the mournful soul of the black experience. They are the Pat Boones of the modern era.

    Eminem is the probable exception, given that his own upbringing in a mostly black Detroit neighborhood. I don't listen to him now, but I did pay attention to his early work, since my daughters liked him. He gave me the distinct impression that he really doesn't like or respect women very much as people, certainly not as equals. He often appeared remarkably self-absorbed and self-loathing, which seemed primarily rooted in his own bitter resentment over his unstable and hardscrabble childhood as the son of a single mother and a father who abandoned him as a toddler.

    Even then, Bernard Goldberg went over the top in listing Eminem as No. 58 in his right-wing screed, 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America. In fact, Eminem has channeled the rewards of his success to the benefit of disadvantaged youths in his hometown Detroit with his Marshall Mathers Foundation, which is far more than moral scolds like Goldberg will ever do for poor Americans. And that's something to be admired.



    You've sold the Beasties... (none / 0) (#146)
    by kdog on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 06:03:44 AM EST
    way short my friend...way way short.

    They're not in the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame with Public Enemy & Run DMC for nuthin'...they are the real deal and the furthest thing from mimicry.  They were originators and innovators in the rap game.  Your Pat Boone reference might fly describing Vanilla Ice...but not the Beasties.  Shame on you;)



    If using and (none / 0) (#92)
    by Zorba on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 09:44:39 PM EST
    selling pot while being fans of certain types of music constitutes being a "gang," then a whole heck of a lot of fans of a whole heck of a lot of music in the 1960's and 70's were gang members.

    What liberals don't get about single payer (none / 0) (#79)
    by Politalkix on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 08:37:18 PM EST

    Ezra is mostly right. I had also pointed out many times before that beating up health insurance companies only, without examining the pay structures of physicians and the way they practice medicine was not going to accomplish much as far as costs were concerned. That brought out furious reactions in this blog every time for no good reason.

    Yes - I think as long as we have the (none / 0) (#86)
    by ruffian on Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 09:07:30 PM EST
    expectation in this country that doctors and pharma have to be rich (and medical school has to be so expensive), we can't really get costs down. I think the hope is that with only one payer, the negotiating power with providers would be stronger. But this country will always be multi-payer: people that can afford to buy their own care or private insurance will never allow only one system.  At most it would be one payer for them and single-payer for the rest of us.

    The reasons (none / 0) (#166)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 05:08:20 PM EST
     for rising health care costs are several and complex.  Of the $2.8 trillion expended for health care in 2010,  30 percent was for hospital costs and 20 percent for physician and clinical services.  Rich physicians may continue to be those specialists at the very top of the profession, but most will be compensated adequately, but in keeping with their investment in medical education and clinical training.

     If there is  still an expectation that doctors have to be rich, that expectation will soon face the reality of changes occurring and contemplated in health care delivery.  The solo practitioner, and even the small group practices, are making the dodo bird seem commonplace.The trend is for "hospitalists" and other salaried practitioners.  

     A new and important factor in rising costs, is technologies that expand the range of treatment options with higher cost services.


    Oh, Maryland (none / 0) (#98)
    by jbindc on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 07:17:04 AM EST
    How could you screw up your health care exchanges so badly?

    Martin O'Malley - you will not be the Democratic nominee in 2016.

    What I think this is really going to do is (none / 0) (#102)
    by Anne on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 08:29:18 AM EST
    sink Anthony Brown's (the lieutenant governor) chances of being the next governor of Maryland, since O'Malley put Brown in charge of the exchange. And while there is certainly a case to be made for the buck ultimately stopping with O'Malley, the fact that he is now making it possible for those not able to get coverage by the deadline to be retroactively covered back to January 1, has a feel of having to rescue the program from Brown, who is being cast as the incompetent one.  

    And, there is way more time for O'Malley to bounce back to do whatever it is he wants to do than there is for Brown, who is facing a primary challenge in June, 2014.

    As to how it got so screwed up, I think that happened the same way the federal exchange went sideways: too many people thinking they had plenty of time to get things done, not listening to the people sending up red flags and running around with their hair on fire, and then time running out ("what?  It's October already?  I thought September had 31 days!")

    It never made any sense to me at all to have this huge lag time between passage of the ACA and the rollout of the exchanges; I'd venture to guess that if the gap had been twice as long, the fked-upped-ness of the whole thing would have not been twice as bad, but exponentially so.

    On the bright side (there's a bright side?), Maryland has done one thing that someone's going to take credit for (my money's on O'Malley):

    Maryland is the only state that currently has an all-payer hospital rate regulation system. Under this system, all payers, including Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, private insurers, and individuals pay the same rates for the same hospital services. This has reduced administrative complexity, made payment for hospital services more equitable, and has slowed the increases in hospital spending from one of the most expensive states down to average.

    Since their all-payer system pays for services provided, incentives remain to increase volume of services. Under the new system just approved by CMS, payment will still be all-payer but will not be based on volume of services, but rather will be based on "the Medicare per capita total hospital cost growth." In essence, that establishes "global budget" as a form of hospital financing in the United States, though it is limited to Maryland under the authority of the Innovation Center, which was created by the Affordable Care Act to test payment and service delivery models.

    So, we have that going for us...


    Hey - you're ahead of us (none / 0) (#103)
    by jbindc on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 08:36:05 AM EST
    I live in Virginia!

    SITE VIOLATOR! (none / 0) (#99)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 07:17:37 AM EST
    In English and a movie goer.

    What is it about Florida that brings out (none / 0) (#107)
    by vml68 on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 09:21:20 AM EST
    the crazy in people?!

    Of course, I don't blame the easy access of guns for this. Afterall, if he did not have a gun, he would have used a bomb or a Molotov cocktail or a hammer or.....

    News reports emphasize the vistim was tweeting dur (none / 0) (#117)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 11:21:31 AM EST
    the preview.  

    As incredibly annoying as that would be, (none / 0) (#119)
    by vml68 on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 11:34:35 AM EST
    I don't believe it is a shooting offense.

    I think the point is that he wasn't tweeting (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 11:37:54 AM EST
    during the main feature, though, if if he were, he shouldn't have become a homicide victim.

    Excerpt from NYT: (none / 0) (#122)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 11:51:08 AM EST
    Cinema executives acknowledged during a trade conference last year that they debated whether to accommodate younger viewers by allowing text messages during some movies. It was widely reported that the AMC chain had agreed to set aside the last rows for patrons to text without bothering others, but the company quickly denied considering such a move.
         "Despite the tragic altercation in a Florida movie theater, which as reported is an isolated incident, movie theaters are a safe and enjoyable entertainment destination for millions of people," said Patrick Corcoran, a spokesman for the National Association of Theater Owners. "We encourage our patrons to remember that they are sharing a common wish to be entertained and to treat their fellow moviegoers with courtesy and respect."

    Shot for texting (none / 0) (#144)
    by Mikado Cat on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 10:58:34 PM EST
    is the headline, the actual event was shot after a heated argument arose over being reported to the theater management for tweeting and a 43 year old man assaulted (and likely buttered since it was popcorn) a 71 year old man. The old guy says he wasn't sure what the guy threw at him and feared he was being physically attacked.

    Of course if he had no gun and was attacked and beaten, there would be no news story, because beating an older helpless person is ok.

    Related story another person is saying the same old guy reported her to the theater for texting, and then glared at her until she turned off her phone last month, same theater.


    Isn't the "old guy" the one who was (5.00 / 3) (#149)
    by Anne on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 07:03:10 AM EST
    retired law enforcement?  Someone who is supposed to have some skills at assessing situations, making good decisions with firearms, looking for ways to reduce conflict, not escalate it?  Isn't the "old guy" the very kind of person we've been told can be trusted with firearms?  

    Honestly, the lengths people go to to justify the use of guns just amazes me.  

    And what's really ridiculous is that when gun-defenders propose alternate scenarios, they can only ever come up with the ones that allow them to say, "see, that's why he needed a gun."  Because the old guy would have been "helpless."  Last I checked, it wasn't the texter/tweeter harassing the old guy, it was the old guy confronting the texter.  And there were other options - there are almost always other options that don't end in one person shooting another.

    So, when you say, "if he had no gun and was attacked and beaten, there would be no news story, because beating an older helpless person is ok," I would say, "if he had had no gun, maybe he wouldn't have been so confrontational, no one would have been beaten or shot or otherwise harmed, and a potentially violent situation would have ended peacefully."

    Maybe - just maybe - if the trigger-happy old guy hadn't had a gun, he'd not have gone from zero to sixty the moment the texter/tweeter didn't accede to his wishes and would have made an effort to dial things down instead of crank them up.

    But in this case, and in so many others like it, what we have is proof that guns don't make anyone smarter, and bullets are not substitutes for brains.


    This is a ridiculous claim (none / 0) (#147)
    by Yman on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 06:24:40 AM EST
    Of course if he had no gun and was attacked and beaten, there would be no news story, because beating an older helpless person is ok.

    There was no "beating", but if it had happened there would be no news story if he had no gun because the assaulter would have been arrested.


    Have you got a link handy... (none / 0) (#151)
    by unitron on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 08:54:43 AM EST
    ...to that more informative version?

    I Do... (none / 0) (#154)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 11:38:34 AM EST

    Reeves is a retired police captain:

    Reeves was with his wife and sat behind Chad Oulson, 43, and his wife, authorities said. Oulson was using his cell phone during the previews before the film and Reeves told him to put it away, according to police and witnesses.

    The two men began to argue and Reeves walked out of the auditorium. Police said Reeves was going to complain to a theater employee.

    But Pasco County Sheriff Chris Nocco told CNN Tuesday night that the manager was busy with another customer and Reeves never addressed his complaint with a supervisor.

    When Reeves returned, witnesses and authorities said that Oulson asked him if he had gone to tell on him for texting.

    Police said Tuesday that Oulson was texting his young daughter's babysitter.

    Voices were raised. Oulson threw a bag of popcorn at Reeves, police said. Then, the former police officer took out a .380 semi-automatic handgun and shot Oulson, police said.

    Police said despite Reeves' claim that he was in fear for his safety, this was not a case for Florida's "stand your ground" defense.

    "Working with the state attorney's office it was determined that stand-your-ground does not fly here in this case," Nocco said.

    Authorities said a preliminary investigation determined that there was no physical contact during the incident. It was popcorn, thrown by Oulson, that struck Reeves.

    Tepper said there was no evidence to support the claim that the shooter was a victim. She denied him bond.

    And Lastly:

    Theater chains had already moved to ban handguns. Cobb Theater, which owns the Grove 16 and more than 120 other theaters, says posters displaying its zero weapons policy are posted on its front doors. Other chains have also stepped up safety measures.

    Thanks... (none / 0) (#168)
    by unitron on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 05:58:29 PM EST
    It would appear that things are a little more nuanced than first reports had it.

    In the low lighting it might not have been immediately apparent that it was only popcorn being thrown.

    Although by the time he got the gun out(assuming he didn't draw it prior to that), it would seem that he would have been able to realize that he hadn't sustained any more serious an injury than a butter stain.

    It kind of sounds like both the shooter and the victim were quick to anger, which is not a good combination even without firearms present.


    What I find surprising about this is that (none / 0) (#169)
    by vml68 on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 07:00:12 PM EST
    in all his years as a police officer he never shot anybody. At least, according to the records they have released so far. So, why the short fuse now?

    Btw, I am in no way, shape or form excusing the shooting. Just wondering about the personality change.


    Sometimes older people get frustrated (none / 0) (#176)
    by Mikado Cat on Thu Jan 16, 2014 at 04:02:00 AM EST
    and anger builds up. Sometimes its nothing related to interaction of the two people, just a bad day. Closest I've come in my adult life to a physical altercation was a minor direct issue, but the other person had a "really" bad morning and I walked up and dropped the last straw. In hindsight I "know" I should have backed off myself, but sometimes men just don't do that.

    In dogs its called avalanche rage.

    From what I have read its going to come down to some fine points in timing of each persons actions.

    What is the basic usual question, did he fire in anger or in fear?

    BTW I see what he guy was texting about, or to whom, irrelevant, as is the sign in the theater. This is about a minor issue that two people escalated to violence, which is clearly wrong.

    Too little is known to take much of any position, so I haven't.


    Here's the thing: a lot of us don't want (5.00 / 2) (#178)
    by Anne on Thu Jan 16, 2014 at 06:44:10 AM EST
    to risk paying with our lives for someone else's bad day.  

    And if someone is the kind of person who can't back off from an escalating situation, he or she should leave the gun at home, because that person is a threat to the safety and well-being of others.

    The issue isn't whether he fire in anger or fear, it's that he had a gun and allowed his emotions to dictate his actions.

    I'm sure the man who had the nerve to put 22 items on the belt in an express line for 20 items or less is grateful - and lucky - that the person behind him didn't shoot him, and just rammed him with his grocery cart.  The victim, by the way, was in one of those handicapped scooters because he'd recently had major knee surgery.  


    And... (none / 0) (#180)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jan 16, 2014 at 09:20:06 AM EST
    ...this is just opinion, but I would imagine retired cops have issues in which they don't know how to deal with people not jumping when they say so.

    Either way, whether it is a mistake, rage, or whatever, what he did was completely focked up.  It's gang like petty BS over nothing, fueled by a gun inflated ego that could have been so easily resolved by moving, leaving, or not going out in public armed.

    I hate people taking calls or talking in the theater, but texting in the previews, does get any more petty than that.  Now he will get to spend the rest of his life in prison as a former cop where he will realize exactly how petty he was.  And another family has lost a member due to gun violence in America.

    This is the classic example of a gun owner thinking they need to protect themselves in public when in fact they are the ones the public needs protection from.  


    No the issue IS (none / 0) (#185)
    by Mikado Cat on Thu Jan 16, 2014 at 09:20:44 PM EST
    whether he fired in fear or anger.

    The world does not belong exclusively to those who can physically defend themselves. Its unfortunate we now have a culture where a 43 year old man feels free to physically intimidate a 71 year old man.

    The question is NOT whether the old guy had a right to defend himself, it is whether or not he acted within the law.


    That is Worng... (none / 0) (#188)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 10:08:41 AM EST
    ...and this shooting proves it, just because he feared for his life doesn't make popcorn dangerous.  Perceived threats are not the same as actual threats.  The problem is people like this, scared of their own shadows believing they need to be armed when in public, then that fear becoming so irrational as to think a bag of popcorn was some sort of danger, then firing at a human being without evaluating the situation.

    Or he did it out of anger, which of course is infinitely worse.

    In any case, without the gun there would haven't been a shooting and an innocent guy would not be dead.  The x factor in this equation is the gun, not the texter, not the fear or the anger, the gun that allowed an old man to kill someone over texting and/or popcorn.  If you can't see that then there really is no point in discussing it.

    Your comment is the problem, in the normal world an old man does fear a young man.  Smaller people fear larger people, but with a gun added to the equation, all of a sudden and old man, who could have easily moved, decided that his gun made him the larger man, the one who could initiate the altercation.  Without the gun, the old man would have done what ever other person in the theater did, sat in their seat and not gave a F about someone texting in the previews.

    You keep using the term defending, even if you accept that, he started the entire chain of events, 'defending' he was not until it spiraled out of control, so please stop using that term, there was a progression, it didn't begin with popcorn.

    And of course, this wasn't the old man's first rodeo at a theater.


    Nobody innocent (none / 0) (#189)
    by Mikado Cat on Sat Jan 18, 2014 at 08:09:50 AM EST
    The guy assaulted and threatened a 71 year old man.

    Again, I don't see that we know enough to decide much of anything, just speculate and posture.

    Old people often break easy, giving someone just a push could cause great bodily injury.

    Obviously both should have backed off, and neither did. The younger guy made the first physically aggressive move, and my view is that he should never have done that to some old guy. I don't care for people acting like a bully, preying on anyone weaker.

    I don't think the elderly or infirm should be denied an effective means to defend themselves.


    So much straw - so little facts (none / 0) (#194)
    by Yman on Sat Jan 18, 2014 at 02:45:25 PM EST
    "Assaulted"?  Getting hit with some popcorn (assuming that's what happened) does not justify the use of deadly force.

    Love how the retried policy officer suddenly gets lumped into the "elderly and infirm" category, though, and the suggestion that anyone thinks they should "be denied an effective means to defend themselves".


    Well... (none / 0) (#195)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jan 20, 2014 at 09:32:59 AM EST
    ...I suspect nothing will change your mind, the old man did nothing wrong...

    There was no assault, you can keep using words that don't apply, but that doesn't make them true.  But then again, that is the only way you could make a sensible argument.


    What shooting situation (none / 0) (#186)
    by Mikado Cat on Thu Jan 16, 2014 at 09:28:23 PM EST
    do you imagine that would not be in the heat of the moment? Hint, maybe an execution, but nothing in the real world.

    Pretty Sure... (none / 0) (#181)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jan 16, 2014 at 09:37:24 AM EST
    ...low light conditions are a commonality in theaters, all the more reason to leave the gun at home.  Figuring out what happened is what you do before shooting so that you don't accidentally kill a man over popcorn.

    That is what I like to call common sense, something that seems to escape a lot of the folks who carry guns in public.  Not all, but enough to know being murdered by a firearm is around 10,000 more times likely then being killed by a terrorist in the US.


    It's the second chance state: (none / 0) (#124)
    by jondee on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 03:36:17 PM EST
    eff up somewhere else and then go hide out in Florida.

    Thanks for making me feel better about my (none / 0) (#127)
    by vml68 on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 04:11:06 PM EST
    upcoming move there!

    You'll be fine in Fl. vmi... (none / 0) (#135)
    by fishcamp on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 07:05:15 PM EST
    we'll be gaining more strength when you get down here to the Sunshine State.  We do have a few pesky political  problems but they seem to happen very slowly. Unfortunately the morning news from Miami is often bad news.  But the weather is very pleasant.  Well we do have those worrisome hurricanes but they usually blow through fast....too fast.

    But I thought ... (none / 0) (#142)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 08:56:26 PM EST
    fishcamp: "Unfortunately the morning news from Miami is often bad news.  But the weather is very pleasant."

    ... the Dolphins' season was finally over.


    At least we have an NFL team (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by fishcamp on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 06:59:56 AM EST
    Oklahoma U.S. District Judge Terence Kern (none / 0) (#131)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 06:20:49 PM EST
    rules that an Oklahoma state constitutional amendment limiting marriage to one man/one woman violates the 14th Amendment.

    Which part? (none / 0) (#134)
    by unitron on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 07:01:53 PM EST
    The limit of if there's a male there has to be a female, and vise versa, or the limit of only one of each?

    From our "Deaf, Dumb & Blonde" file: (none / 0) (#141)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 08:52:41 PM EST
    Fox News' resident constitutional scholar Megyn Kelly urges Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell to consider the impeachment of President Obama.

    Did she urge John of Orange... (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by unitron on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 11:13:32 PM EST
    ...to rush the trial through in the House if ol' Mitch succeeds?

    Did she say anything about what sort of revenue bills Mitch and them should be originating while they were at it?


    I'd love to see a crying orange man filibuster (none / 0) (#160)
    by ruffian on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 02:10:38 PM EST
    "John of Orange" (none / 0) (#161)
    by Zorba on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 02:22:02 PM EST
    Too funny!  I love it, and I am so stealing that!    ;-)

    I was trying to avoid... (none / 0) (#167)
    by unitron on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 05:42:38 PM EST
    ...having to go look up how to spell "Boehner", but I stole "John of Orange" from Keith Olbermann, who used it a few years ago on his MSNBC show.

    And now I've had to go look up how to spell both of their names.


    Cool ideas! (none / 0) (#150)
    by jbindc on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 07:32:17 AM EST
    You gotta love when an (Episcopal) priest says things like:

    "I want to skateboard down it -- or have a paper airplane contest,"

    in relation to the aisle in the National Cathedral.

    As one commenter said (none / 0) (#182)
    by jbindc on Thu Jan 16, 2014 at 05:17:17 PM EST
    "Already the election is bearing fruit."


    Herring drops taxpayer-funded lawyers for McDonnell and former staff