Thursday Open Threaad

I've got a busy day at work. Here's an open thread, all topics (except Zimmerman) welcome.

Update: New report on Guantanamo finds cost is $2.7 million per prisoner per year.

< Snowden Gets Asylum in Russia, Leaves Airport | Media Wakes Up to Missing Docket Entries in Tsarnaev Case >
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    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 85 (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Dadler on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 11:12:08 AM EST
    I hope you realize (none / 0) (#3)
    by Visteo1 on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 12:37:18 PM EST
    that humor like that has little chance of winning over JM.

    You kinda scare me.


    Hmm (5.00 / 5) (#5)
    by Dadler on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 01:18:13 PM EST
    Well, since I've been posting on TL for a decade plus, have donated several hundred dollars into the TL kitty, and as JM knows me fairly darn well at this point, I feel pretty certain she's comfortable with what she's got in this TLer.

    Peace out, my friend.


    Also, Jeralyn is tight with... (none / 0) (#6)
    by Dadler on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 01:24:37 PM EST
    ...the late Hunter S. Thompson's camp. I doubt she finds me shocking at all.

    Hope to know to get (none / 0) (#44)
    by Visteo1 on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 11:02:12 PM EST
    to know you better, Dadler.  I'll choose a valentine without imagery of punching and smashing someone's face.  

    You might enjoy an alias I used in the past....Squid Licker Ch*de.  It makes some people laugh and others lock their door.  

    Visteo, while also ambiguous, usually ellicits a positive connotation in peoples minds.

    May your blessings be many.


    Anthony Weiner (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 12:54:05 PM EST
    Will get at least one vote- kdog's favorite politician - Jimmy "The Rent is Too Damn High" McMillan.

    One of my favorites... (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 03:53:47 PM EST
    Huge endowment for Carlos...err, endorsement;)

    Hope y'all have been behaving yourselves and the world is still in one piece. A rainy day in the NY was a great reason to stay in bed till 4...let it rain, let it rain I say!

    It's been a dream vacay and I don't want it to end...making the hard sell to forget about her flight home on Tuesday jajaja!

    La vida es rica amigos, hasta semana proxima!



    I Like the Weiner Story... (none / 0) (#7)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 01:28:25 PM EST
    ...because he has zero chance of winning, but clearly believes he can talk himself into Gracie Mansion.  

    It's a good look into how a politician's mind works.  From getting busted, to not stopping, to getting back in, to denial/non-denials about the present/near past.  

    IOW no one believes him, but he doesn't seem to understand why that matters.


    Two words (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Mikado Cat on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 04:04:04 PM EST
    Marion Barry.

    Denial (none / 0) (#8)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 01:29:35 PM EST
    ain't just a river in Egypt....

    And my favorite part of the story (none / 0) (#10)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 01:30:50 PM EST

    McMillan offered that if Weiner needs "another woman" he can provide one for him, and suggested Weiner create a business out of his "Carlos Danger" pseudonym.

    "If you need another woman, I can help you get another woman if that's what you need," he said. "(Weiner) created a character called `Carlos Danger.' Ooh, that is a marketing bonanza ... He can put a hat on a dildo and call himself `Carlos Danger.' Everyone will get it for someone just as a gift. He can make a billion dollars out of that in one month."

    Unless Your are the Real... (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 03:10:26 PM EST
    ...Carlos C. Danger, MD or Carlos R. Danger, M.D., both residing in Florida.

    My guess is they hate the Weiner.


    There would be something funny about (none / 0) (#29)
    by KeysDan on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 05:30:55 PM EST
    a Danger administration.  Not funny like the papers read by a previous NYC celebrity mayor, Fiorello LaGuardia, or  funny, as in ha ha.

    (Palm slap to forehead.) You know, ... (none / 0) (#13)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 02:40:49 PM EST
    ... I really wish the media would stop covering this guy. Yeah, I know Anthony Weiner's still a mayoral candidate -- but only in a technical sense. He's been mortally wounded, politically, and he'll frankly be lucky to break into double digits come election day. I find him far less funny to watch now, than simply embarrassing.

    I'll admit that I've enjoyed a long and hearty laugh at Señor Danger's expense this month, and I'm sure that most everyone here has also gotten at least a few chuckles. But quite honestly, the Jimmy McMillan endorsement tells me that it's now time for the media and the rest of us to move on, and cease keeping tabs on an attention-needy sideshow who's still insisting on making a fool of himself.

    At 8.2 million residents, New York City's population is probably greater than at least 40 of our 50 states, and its mayor has more political clout and influence than do most state governors. It's an important election for a key post, but the relentless focus on the debris field that is Weiner's now-former political career is just nothing short of salacious at this point.

    I just think the continuing coverage of Mr. Weiner further demeans the entire electoral process even more than the candidate himself already has, by offering him unwitting license to assume the role of caricature in a mediocre sitcom, with the rest of us standing in for the live studio audience.



    If the media really wanted to get to (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 02:49:12 PM EST
    Weiner, they would go silent/dark on anything and everything about him and his skeezy activities and his political "career;" he loves the attention - he puts the "maniac" in "egomaniac" - and it doesn't matter whether it's good or bad as long as they're talking and writing about him.

    If the media were doing its job (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 05:47:09 PM EST
    it might even try to cover the issues.  I live in NYC and personally don't care a hoot about Weiner's sexting life. I am no more interested in it than I was in Bill Clinton's or Spitzer's dalliances. In all three cases, it seems to me these are issues for their wives, not me.  Spitzer remains the only person who had a position of regulatory authority over the securities markets and actually exercised it.  This is one of the most important cities, the financial center of the nation, home to the U.N., and we have a weak set of candidates all of whom prefer to talk about Weiner than the issues.  I fear for the future of NYC.  When is the media going to do its job.  

    By the way, has anyone heard that Time-Warner Cable is dropping CBS from its coverage?  So the millions in NY who use Time-Warner for TV access will be without.  Talk about unbridled monopolies...sorry folks, I'm on a roll tonight.  


    Tsarnaev docket still too secret (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by TycheSD on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 02:47:41 PM EST
    says GateHouse Media.

    According to the letter, "a review of the docket sheet for this case [United States v. Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev] indicates that numerous entries have not even been listed."

    "Wide swaths of court records have been omitted in their entirety from the docket listings," the letter states. "The incomplete public docket sheet maintained in this case ... does not accurately reflect the materials on file with the Court. As a result, the Newspapers' constitutionally protected newsgathering and reporting efforts have been frustrated."

    The letter further points out that "only 27 of a total of 69 numbered court filings are available to the press and public," and notes that at least 42 court filings are missing completely from the docket sheet, "as if they do not exist."

    "The perception of judicial integrity is enhanced when court records are readily accessible to, not secreted away from, the public," said attorney Michael J. Grygiel, who submitted the letter for GateHouse Media.

    Judge Marianne Bowler seemed to address this during the arraignment hearing.  I wonder if parties will take heed.

    Irony (5.00 / 5) (#31)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 05:49:46 PM EST
    Am I the only one who finds the fact that authorities were caught unawares by the Boston Marathon bombing truly ironic given the massive amount of secret data gathering that has been ongoing?  All this desperate activity is justified in the name of security from terrorists but only deflects the intelligence community from using strategic analysis and plain ole legwork.

    Texas prison system running out of (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Angel on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 03:23:10 PM EST
    execution drugs.

    From the article:  The state has already executed 11 death-row inmates this year, and at least seven more have execution dates in coming months.

    Texas has by far executed more inmates than any other state in the U.S. since the Supreme Court allowed executions to resume. Since 1982, six years after the high court's order, Texas has executed 503 inmates. Virginia is a distant second at 110.


    "But the NSA doesn't collect data..." (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Edger on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 05:57:13 PM EST
    "...on Americans, so this certainly won't happen to you."

    Samantha Power becomes the 28th US Ambassador (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by CoralGables on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 06:31:26 PM EST
    to the UN. Power is only the 4th female to hold the position. Along with Susan Rice, that means the current President has named as many women to the position as all other Presidents combined in the last 68 years.

    Shades of Jackie Robinson (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Dadler on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 07:03:18 PM EST
    For NYC Stray! (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by DebFrmHell on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 07:24:12 PM EST
    I think about your dog every July!  I don't remember the date but I sing a little happy B-day to your dalmation!

    Part IV of Wagner's "Ring Cycle" (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 03:12:57 AM EST
    "Gotterdammurung," which I think must translate to: G*dd*mn Your Cursed Ring!" Amazing Seattle Opera production. Turns out, that after all these years of putting it on, they may not do it anymore after this season. So I'm even more gratified I got the chance to experience it, and for free.

    MT (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by CoralGables on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 12:39:42 PM EST
    I had a strange meetup yesterday on a nightly run. Caught up with some guy and started talking and turns out he works at NORAD. I decided to steer the conversation towards Manning and Snowden to get an opinion. He had no opinion on Snowden since he isn't military but thought I was naive thinking Manning "would probably get 30 years". The eye roll told me that he and the people he works with expect considerably longer.

    Was he surprised that Manning (none / 0) (#79)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 08:33:00 PM EST
    Was found not guilty of aiding the enemy?  I thought it was a toss up but many uniforms I know we're surprised she swiftly and confidently ruled not guilty.  I'm not sure she can credibly give him 30 years or less in the military realm and that is who she answers to and the order she is responsible for.  I don't think he'll get the total but he will get something that amounts to life. I think he has a chance of clemency because he was young when he did it.  If he were in his late 20s or his 30s he would get life and die there, if the wars were still raging and not winding up he would be in a horrible situation too.

    There are 2 bets in this house, one is 100 years plus or minus 10.  The other (my bet) is 70 plus or minus 5.  There is a regulation on the books that anything secret must not be revealed by a member of the military for 76 years.  That is my justification for the sentence.


    Nixon was human (2.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Mikado Cat on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 09:21:44 AM EST
    and one of the best presidents that ever served his country. He ended the Vietnam war and made peace with China. He didn't invent dirty tricks on politics, just got caught.

    I urge you to rent the PBS documentary (5.00 / 5) (#62)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 10:48:07 AM EST
    they did at the 30 year Watergate Anniversary for an education. Nixon brought dirty tricks to a whole new level. The "everybody does it, he just got caught" myth has been debunked for years. Don't try to sell it here.

    PBS (2.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Mikado Cat on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 12:35:01 PM EST
    has some nice entertainment, but not my choice for any hard information or historical accuracy.

    Without Nixon's mistakes to learn from Clinton and Obama both might have been impeached as well.


    Lucky for me I am old enough to have seen (5.00 / 4) (#75)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 12:51:42 PM EST
    the Senate hearings on TV, and saved all the Watergate era Newsweeks, back when they reported news, and also the complete transcript of the WH tapes that was printed in the Chicago Trib. The PBS Doc merely refreshed my memory, but I seriously think you need it as a basic education.

    I understand the events (2.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Mikado Cat on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 01:43:40 AM EST
    Clinton had subordinates willing to fall on their sword, go to jail instead of implicate him, Nixon didn't. Its not like Nixon put the IRS on Democratic supporters.

    Nor is it like (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by christinep on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 10:04:53 AM EST
    ...Nor is it like President Clinton put the IRS on Repub supporters, etc.  Mikado:  Unless you get your kicks by lobbing off unsupported talking points (whether of Drudge or Issa), that would-be story as to the IRS is failing fast.

    And, while I don't know if you were around & alert during Nixon's regime, but you ought to read a bit about his self-imposed problems.  You ought to read about what he dragged the country through in those years.  While the hearings were compelling TV of the You Were There variety, t'aint nothing funny about the Watergate burglary, and even more somber were the lives lost by his gaming Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia.  

    Wait, wait ... I take back the comment about nothing being funny about Nixon's abuse of the legal system.  We did, after all, have perverse chuckles about the imbroglio involving Martha & John.


    There is no evidence (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 12:48:35 PM EST
    the current issues of the IRS were in any way directed by White House....

    Holy shinola, it is EXACTLY like that (5.00 / 6) (#95)
    by ruffian on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 11:23:41 AM EST

    NIXON: Otis Chandler, I want him checked with regard to his gardener. I understand he's a wetback. We are going to go after the Chandlers. Every one. Individually, collectively. Their income taxes. They're starting this week. Every one of those sons of bitches, is that clear?

    Mitchell: Yes, sir.

    Nixon: You Understand? Do it. Give me a report.

    Mitchell. Very well, sir.

    Mitchell is the Attorney General, in case you don't know.

    Really, stop listening to Rush Limbaugh, go do some homework and then come back.


    Oh dear (5.00 / 5) (#64)
    by sj on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 11:03:01 AM EST
    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by CoralGables on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 11:42:19 AM EST
    yeah (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 12:48:02 PM EST
    A little Friday morning irony (5.00 / 6) (#67)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 11:58:42 AM EST
    "He ended the Vietnam War."

    Yah. Well, kinda sorta. In reality, he pulled our troops out in '73, and the war lasted another two years. Nixon's magnamimous actions occurred four years after he and Kissinger secretly bombed the living f*cking daylights out of Cambodia for 14 months, leaving 600,000 dead, spurring thousands of Cambodian peasants to take up arms with the recently formed Khmer Rouge, which went on to inflict its own reign of terror until 1979.

    That Nixon guy, such a peacemaker. Oh, and you forgot to say Kissinger deserved the Nobel. And that they both deserve to be on Mt. Rushmore.


    How (2.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Mikado Cat on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 01:50:08 AM EST
    The war ended was largely taken out of Nixon's hands.

    Can we all agree it would have been MUCH better if JFK hadn't been so weak to Khrushchev and gotten us into Vietnam in the first place?


    I think we can all agree (5.00 / 3) (#89)
    by shoephone on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 12:38:16 PM EST
    that you know nothing of history, get all your talking points from right wing sites, and have very recently shown up on TL for the purpose of trolling.

    "Nixon was human" was the dead give-away.


    Anybody (none / 0) (#96)
    by Mikado Cat on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 10:40:58 AM EST
    that doesn't think exactly like you is a troll and gets their talking points from right wing websites?

    Your denial that Nixon was human is the dead give away. I just don't have that kind of hate within me.

    I like history, study it frequently, and pay no attention to anything biased, only scholarly works, not axe grinding.

    I came here with no intention of posting in these forums, just to look at the information and ask some questions in the Zimmerman forum, but it took a week to find out that forum is closed. Why all the emotion about a different point of view?


    But you don't read too well, apparently. (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 11:25:51 AM EST
    Nowhere in shoephone's comment does she deny that Nixon was human - she addressed your contention that Nixon ended the Vietnam War.

    I expect that shoephone isn't under the illusion that the comment to which she was responding was the first one you've made.  No, she and I and others have read many of your comments, and while we can't prove that you derive many of your talking points from right-wing sources, let's just say that the lack of factual information in your comments, your disinterest in the details, and your willingness to spout easily-debunked nonsense - as well as the similarity to that which right-wing sites and sources are dishing up - cause some of us to regard your comments with much skepticism and little respect.


    So how (none / 0) (#101)
    by Mikado Cat on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 05:44:38 AM EST
    do you interpret this line from Shoes post?

    "Nixon was human" was the dead give-away.


    Follow the site hostess's request: (none / 0) (#97)
    by shoephone on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 10:45:36 AM EST
    Its below the page (none / 0) (#99)
    by Mikado Cat on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 11:03:51 AM EST
    the message I responded to is on, didn't see it til it scrolled after posting.

    No (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 12:47:03 PM EST
    As I recall (5.00 / 3) (#91)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 12:47:39 PM EST
    didn't Nixon's political foot soldiers work behind the scenes to sabotage the Paris Peace Talks before the election in '68? That helped "end the war" how exactly?

    If Nixon was really one of our better Presidents that probably explains why a good half the country doesn't bother to vote in Presidential elections anymore.


    Seriously??? (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by Angel on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 04:27:02 PM EST
    ...and one of the best presidents that ever served his country.

    Wow! (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by MO Blue on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 09:33:10 PM EST
    You sure do know how to impress people with the level of your knowledge. You have outdone yourself with this one.

    Nixon was an abysmal President (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 05:50:49 PM EST
    Here's Hunter Thompson's obituary of Richard Nixon, titled "He Was a Crook."

    Mikado Cat (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 05:53:23 PM EST
    you get four comments on to express your point of view on Nixon. Either you are joking, or you are seriously in need of a reality check. Either way, after 4 comments you will have to take your view elsewhere.

    Nix (none / 0) (#98)
    by Mikado Cat on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 11:01:54 AM EST
    on teaching Nixon, read the linked piece, shake my head the same way when I read some right wing nut talk about Obama or Clinton. If that is the touchstone, its too far south for me change any minds.

    Denying a persons humanity is among the worst of crimes.


    BTW, Jeralyn... (none / 0) (#2)
    by Dadler on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 12:01:13 PM EST
    ...we love you.

    TL kitty soon to be fattened by a whisker.

    Peace to the nth degree, my favorite defense attorney.

    Let's Start Sending Federal Prisoners... (none / 0) (#9)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 01:30:41 PM EST
    ...to Detroit, they will be in the black by Christmas.

    Gun permits soar in Newtown (none / 0) (#11)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 01:58:12 PM EST

    Waiting for the police has proved to be a fatal strategy too often.  

    "Too often"? (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by Yman on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 02:10:47 PM EST
    Would that be more often or less often than the number of times a gun in the home has been used to kill, injure or coerce a member of the household?

    What Yman said, Abdul. (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 02:50:11 PM EST
    Pray tell, how'd that gun permit work out for Nancy Lanza?

    Well (none / 0) (#45)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 02:05:55 AM EST

    The family murdered on the third floor were without effective means of defense.  Waiting for police proved fatal.

    Ditto goes for Newtown.  Like Israeli schools with armed staff, the tragedy at Newton may well have been lessened if the truly brave staff that gave their lives trying to stop the shooter had effective defensive tools.  Waiting for police proved fatal.



    That was an isolated incident. (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 03:28:14 AM EST
    Deplorable and regrettable, yes, but nonetheless, you don't craft policy on the basis of the occasional exception.

    For the vast majority of people who are killed in their homes, the deed is committed by someone they know, usually a family member or other close personal acquaintance, and not by a random intruder.



    I don't see the connection (none / 0) (#24)
    by Mikado Cat on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 04:15:08 PM EST
    an abusive spouse won't reform for lack of a gun. Use a gun and they go to jail, smack someone around and nobody knows anything happened.

    Best way I know to reduce unintended harm from guns is to donate to the NRA and promote taking classes in gun safety. Many lives would be saved if schools included mandatory gun safety classes.


    Or (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 04:25:29 PM EST
    (h/t Aaron Sorkin and "The West Wing")

    All the folks who want gun control should join the NRA and vote out the likes of Wayne LaPierre...


    Wow, (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Mikado Cat on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 10:36:24 PM EST
    I miss West Wing, have the whole series on DVD, lots of good lessons in that program.

    It was a TV show. (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 03:39:09 AM EST
    Learn to deal with reality as it actually exists, not as it's portrayed in parallel earth.

    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 07:23:12 AM EST
    The reality of having clowns run both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue, 50 state houses, and 50 state legislatures is so much better two watch than having a little escapism....

    Heh (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by Yman on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 08:12:18 AM EST
    an abusive spouse won't reform for lack of a gun. Use a gun and they go to jail, smack someone around and nobody knows anything happened.

    No one said it would.  OTOH, if they "use a gun", there's a good chance their spouse will be dead or seriously injured, whether or not they go to jail (which could happen whether they use a gun or "smack someone around").

    Best way I know to reduce unintended harm from guns is to donate to the NRA and promote taking classes in gun safety. Many lives would be saved if schools included mandatory gun safety classes.

    Imagining something doesn't mean that you "know" it.  Gun safety classes might reduce some of the @ 800 accidental gun deaths in the US, but they're not going to affect the 30,000+ intentional gun deaths or the 100,000+ intentional gun injuries every year.  I say "might" because several studies have shown that even kids who are trained not to touch guns ignore the most fundamental principal of the "Eddie Eagle" NRA program ("Stop! Don't touch! Leave the area! Tell an adult!" if the child ever sees a firearm lying around).  Link 1

    Link 2

    Link 3

    Link 4

    Not to mention that any reduction in the number of accidental shootings might be offset by an increase caused by people believing the false, NRA-sponsored propoganda, the hateful rhetoric of its leaders, or its loony conspiracy theories, buying guns they might otherwise not buy.


    Please don't confuse people (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by MO Blue on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 09:11:38 AM EST
    with actual research. Imagining is so much more fun.

    More than 90% of the boys who handled the gun or pulled the trigger reported that they had previously received some sort of gun safety instruction.

    So what does that mean? (none / 0) (#68)
    by Mikado Cat on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 12:21:38 PM EST
    "some gun safety instruction" since it obviously was insufficient.

    Link to report summary lacking in any material details and with some very odd looking calculations.



    That is the whole point (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by MO Blue on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 02:26:47 PM EST
    The safety instruction obviously was insufficient.

    This safety instruction class was also obviously insufficient to prevent a shooting accident.


    This is why (none / 0) (#81)
    by Mikado Cat on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 01:10:55 AM EST
    You want the NRA not the DEA doing safety demo's. Hard to argue it didn't get a guns are dangerous message across pretty well.

    I was in a sporting goods store this week looking for a brush to clean sports bottle straws, and the sign on the door said,

    something like no clip, unloaded, open chamber or don't come in the store.

    When you handle a loaded gun you need all of your attention on the gun, and it never should have been removed from the holster without the first action being to unload it. Seems like typical cavalier handling of a weapon which I abhor.


    Right - I get it (5.00 / 4) (#85)
    by MO Blue on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 07:14:56 AM EST
    A NRA instructor is needed to teach gun safety.

    NRA gun instructor shoots student

    A gun instructor accidently shot a student in the foot Saturday during an NRA class to receive certification to carry a concealed weapon, Orlando police said.

    I'm sure that parents would feel confident with these fine NRA instructors teaching their children gun safety.

    Just a couple weeks after a firearm safety teacher accidentally fired a gun in a Stillwater school just before teaching class, an NRA-certified instructor from rural Stockman, Minnesota ended up in the hospital after he accidentally shot himself in the hand...Link  

    This might prove your point. Those fine NRA safety instructors were conceivably better than this gun safety instructor whose credentials were unknown. With a single bullet he managed a twofer. He shot himself and his wife while conducting a gun safety class.


    Seems the just say no camp (none / 0) (#54)
    by Mikado Cat on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 09:10:06 AM EST
    Didn't do all that  well with drugs, no reason to think its the most effective technique with guns.

    Eddy Eagle is age appropriate, but what is needed are programs for kids of a age to both handle and use firearms. Shooting is fun, and engaging in the sport side of shooting is full of both safe practices and good role models. It is compared to many other sports a clean competition that relies more on skills and practice than base athletic ability.

    End the prohibition on drugs and we are well on our way back to a more free and civilized society.


    Where's the evidence? (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by Yman on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 10:14:33 AM EST
    Seems the just say no camp Didn't do all that  well with drugs, no reason to think its the most effective technique with guns.Eddy Eagle is age appropriate, but what is needed are programs for kids of a age to both handle and use firearms.

    Where's the evidence that gun safety programs are effective?  Where's the evidence that "Many lives would be saved if schools included mandatory gun safety classes"?  You suggested donating to the NRA and promoting gun safety classes is the best way to reduce unintended harm from guns (despite the fact that the issue raised was intentional harm from guns), and then agree that the NRA's school-age gun safety program isn't effective.  Or is this all just sheer conjecture based on a hypothetical program that the NRA doesn't even have?

    I would agree with drug legalization in general, but it's a very flawed analogy.  "Just say no" doesn't work for drugs or guns, but I would never agree to a mandatory drug education program for minors that required all minors to use drugs.


    Gee, I wonder if the same people who (5.00 / 3) (#66)
    by Anne on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 11:47:48 AM EST
    want gun safety and education taught in public schools have been fighting to get sex education taught in them, too?

    If you teach a young girl (none / 0) (#72)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 12:36:42 PM EST
    how to use a gun, and mark sure she's armed, then you won't have to worry about those pesky teenage pregnancies (especially if the boy knows daddy is armed too).



    I know parents (none / 0) (#82)
    by Mikado Cat on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 01:19:17 AM EST
    Who made a decision that if their kids were going to drink or use drugs they were going to do it as safely as possible. They didn't encourage anything, but said if you are going to do it, do it at home and with supervision. Same for sex, just nothing weird like watching, but gave them privacy in their rooms and rules to follow.

    Regards guns, its beyond the safe practices to include responsible activity. Going to a range instead of shooting rats in a warehouse, or associating with people who don't handle weapons in a safe manner. Removing media generated allure of using guns improperly.


    Blaming the media again (5.00 / 4) (#86)
    by Yman on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 09:27:33 AM EST
    It's our entire culture that glamorizes guns, particularly the group that you suggest donating to - the NRA.

    Still waiting for some evidence - any evidence - to support this claim:

    Best way I know to reduce unintended harm from guns is to donate to the NRA and promote taking classes in gun safety. Many lives would be saved if schools included mandatory gun safety classes.

    As far as parents you know who made the decision to allow their kids to use alcohol or drugs under their supervision, ... what's your point?  That would be the parents' decision and they would be the ones dealing with any consequences from their decision.  You, OTOH, are suggesting we should take the gun decision away from the parents and making gun safety classes mandatory for school age children.  All, of course, without the slightest bit of evidence that such programs are effective and would reduce unintentional gun deaths.


    We would need to set up special (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by MO Blue on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 10:02:41 AM EST
    nursery schools and pre-schools so that children 5 and under could benefit from  "mandatory gun safety classes."

    A toddler from Corsicana died Wednesday night after police say he accidentally shot himself in the head with the family's handgun.
    Two-year-old Kinsler Davis was taken to Navarro Regional Hospital and then airlifted to Children's Medical Center in Dallas, where he was pronounced dead about 11 p.m., police said.

    An ex-Green Beret was killed by his four-year-old son when the child accidentally got a hold of a gun and shot him.

    Another Toddler Dies From Self-Inflicted Gun Shot - This Time Three Year-Old In AZ

    At Least 4 People Were Accidentally Shot By Toddlers Since Last Weekend
    A Tennessee woman was shot in the stomach by her 2-year-old child on Sunday. Rekia Kid was sleeping with the toddler and her three-week-old baby when the toddler discovered a Glock 9 mm stored underneath her pillow and discharged the weapon....

    Josephine G. Fanning was shot and killed Saturday at a Tennessee barbecue when a 4-year-old boy discharged a handgun owned by Fanning's husband, Sheriff's Deputy Daniel Fanning....

    A 6-year-old boy was accidentally shot by his 4-year-old playmate in a quiet residential New Jersey area yesterday. The victim later died of his wounds......

    A 3-year-old died of an accidental self-inflicted gun wound in South Carolina...

    I'll bet they're soaring, ... (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 02:45:41 PM EST
    Yeah, Since 32 Apparelty is Considered Soaring (none / 0) (#21)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 03:33:06 PM EST
    Do the 28 dead, at one time, from one gun, also qualify as soaring ?

    To be an effective stat, you need the change in population for the same time frame. If the population increased at the same rate, then the rate is the same.

    The 28 dead should help bring down any population increases.


    How many (none / 0) (#26)
    by Mikado Cat on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 04:22:40 PM EST
    Seriously mentally ill people doing some mass killing before something gets done?

    And I don't mean pushing them towards acting out with a bomb or biological attack instead of a gun.


    Heavens to Mergatroyd! (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 08:27:46 PM EST
    We wouldn't want any mentally ill persons to be building themselves some bombs or biological weaponry now, would we?

    Now, I'd like you to lose the NRA cliché-induced hysteria for a bit, and really think about what I'm going to tell you, because as a former senior legislative analyst, I've actually studied this issue in detail and ad nauseum, and have thus become fairly well-versed in delivering the following counter-argument:

    If you were to actually examine the empirical evidence, statistics and data on gun violence in the United States, courtesy of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and other primary local, state, federal and private sources, you'll find that from a historical perspective, the overwhelming number of gun violence victims in our country have tended to not be the result of having been massacred by soulless, homicidal sociopaths.

    Rather, the data clearly shows that a decided majority of homicides -- and especially homicides in the home -- tend to be so-called "crimes of passion" which:

    • Occur during altercations over such matters as personal relationships, money and other domestic problems; and

    • More often than not, involve acquaintances, neighbors, lovers, and family members. (Further, the data also shows it's not uncommon at all for either the assailant or the victim -- or both -- to have been drinking prior to the fatal altercation.)

    Only a small minority of homicides in this country are actually the result of carefully planned acts of individuals who possess a single-minded intention to kill.

    Further, people who own and carry guns on their persons are nearly four and one-half times more likely to be involved in an armed confrontation and get shot, than is someone who's unarmed. Also, those who live in households where firearms are present are about five times more likely to become a victim of gun violence, than those who reside in gun-free households.

    And furthermore, while the number of deaths from firearms has actually been decreasing annually in this country since 2001, the number of people who've required hospitalization from gunshot wounds has actually increased by 47% during that same period.

    What accounts for this apparent discrepancy between a decreasing death rate, and the corresponding increase in the number of people being shot during the same period of years?

    From a medical standpoint, most firearms-related homicides are indistinguishable from nonfatal gun shootings. Survivability depends upon the caliber of the gun used in the shooting, whether a vital organ has been pierced or otherwise injured, and how much time passes before the victim receives medical treatment for his or her wounds.

    And over the past decade, U.S. hospitals and local emergency paramedical services -- particularly in urban centers -- have gotten exponentially better at emergency trauma care for victims of gun violence, which in turn has resulted in increasingly more successful outcomes than in the past.

    Now, given all that, please also consider the following:

    (a) We already have over 310 million firearms registered in our country, which is approximately one weapon for every man, woman and child;

    (b) Gun-possessing homes presently account for less than one-third of all American households; and

    (c) 65% of all guns in the United States -- that's over 202 million -- are owned by only 20% of the U.S. population.

    Therefore, taking all of the above into account, simple logic should lead the most reasonable amongst us to conclude that:

    • In fact, more Americans are not becoming gun owners, but rather;

    • The existing pool of U.S. gun owners is both buying and hoarding more firearms, and further, a not insignificant number of them are becoming increasingly prone to actually wield and use them, and further;

    • While one is much more likely to be shot and killed by someone he or she knows, than by a random stranger, the silver lining in all this is that if you do happen to get shot, the odds of you being able to survive your wounds are over 10 times greater than they would have been only fifteen years ago, thanks to the tremendous medical advances in the delivery of emergency trauma care.

    So, how exactly does making it easier for people to buy increasingly more guns of an evermore sophisticated variety, address and solve the overall pandemic of gun violence in America -- unless, of course, we're cynical enough to believe that encouraging more gun purchases will somehow embolden existing U.S. gun owners / hoarders to inevitably confront their own kind, and thus thin their own herd?



    Has nothing (2.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Mikado Cat on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 10:47:28 PM EST
    to do with the mass killings media and politicians are attempting to use as a basis for making policy. Those were planned out for weeks, and at least the Colorado guy did know how to make bombs.

    The media has trained the public to use guns, especially assault style weapons if they want heavy media coverage. People have been indoctrinated with the idea that using a gun is what these nuts do. 5 gallons of gas in a backpack garden sprayer would have had horrifically worse results.


    Oh, so now it's the media's fault, huh? (5.00 / 4) (#49)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 03:31:06 AM EST
    You are obviously an AM squawk radio addict, and not to be taken seriously. Have a good evening.

    If you want to have (2.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Mikado Cat on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 09:16:49 AM EST
    your random little act of craziness to make the headlines which do you pick, a baseball bat or a AR-15?

    Do you aim your violence at one or two people who directly interacted with you, or as many as possible?

    Its a recipe the media has created, the nuts just follow it.

    Only radio I listen to is NPR and a local rock station.


    Do you really think ... (5.00 / 4) (#61)
    by Yman on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 10:18:08 AM EST
    ... that someone planning a "random act of craziness" needs the media to figure out that it's much easier to do far more harm (and thus generate more attention) with an AR15 than a baseball bat?

    I don't think its possible (none / 0) (#69)
    by Mikado Cat on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 12:30:31 PM EST
    to ignore the influence of the media. It is so pervasive it leaks in and changes behavior without conscious thought.

    Killing a lot of people is central to the media coverage recipe. Can you offer some alternate reason to push up the count? There was a time when the nation was shocked at half a dozen killed.

    What makes you think its "easier" with an AR15?

    I can buy a nice bat at any sporting goods store for  a few dollars. The AR15 is like $1500 and plenty of paperwork.


    That's a different claim (5.00 / 3) (#76)
    by Yman on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 02:10:20 PM EST
    Arguing that a mass killer who is motivated by attention would try to garner media attention is not remotely the same thing as blaming the media for "training the public to use guns, especially assault style weapons if they want heavy media coverage" or "it's the recipe the media created".  Of course, the media will cover a mass shooting where someone kills numerous people.  They'll do that whether or not a gun is used, let alone an assault rifle.  No one "created a recipe".

    BTW - No one said it was easier or less expensive to get an AR15 than a baseball bat.  The point made was "it's much easier to do far more harm (and thus generate more attention) with an AR15 than a baseball bat".  A shooter in a crowded area with an AR15 can fire dozens of rounds in seconds, whereas those same people can flee or jump on an attacker with a baseball bat.


    Some US Embassies (none / 0) (#19)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 03:12:09 PM EST
    around the world to close August 4 for an unspecified period of time.  State Department cites unspeficied security threats.

    Want to bet something happens (none / 0) (#25)
    by Mikado Cat on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 04:19:20 PM EST
    Again this year to mark 9/11? 1500 Al Quaeda broken out of prison, feels like its going to get nasty soon.

    Haven't Your Heard ? (none / 0) (#27)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 04:25:04 PM EST
    I don't see that happening. (none / 0) (#43)
    by Mikado Cat on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 10:54:47 PM EST
    The prison breaks may have had strong internal help, and the technique required half a dozen suicide bombers to "crack" the prison, logistically Guantanamo is likely much more secure, as well as isolated.

    My concern though is more than the 1500 that were released, but that the second prison break occurred suggests a collapse in intelligence. This could have big implications for Syria as well.


    These Lays potato chips (none / 0) (#32)
    by turbo6 on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 05:50:56 PM EST
    Too much chicken. Not enough waffle.

    Still good nonetheless.

    Wow. (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 08:32:21 PM EST
    I guess the acid finally kicked in, huh?

    Okay, that made me laugh (none / 0) (#39)
    by sj on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 09:43:34 PM EST
    But acid doesn't bring the munchies, does it. I'm guessing a visit to Colorado? :)

    Did anyone watch that 2 hour show (none / 0) (#40)
    by Teresa on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 10:08:32 PM EST
    on CNN about Richard Nixon with the home movies? It was interesting. I wish I'd taped it. I think it repeats later tonight so I'll DVR it then. I was reading and watching, but I'd like to see it again.

    It was like watching history live.

    At any point in those movies (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 02:46:40 AM EST
    did he shake his jowls and say "Bebe Rebozo"? I laugh just thinking about that.

    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 86 (none / 0) (#58)
    by Dadler on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 09:36:04 AM EST
    Link seems to (none / 0) (#59)
    by Zorba on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 09:57:29 AM EST
    be messed up, Dadler.  I assume you mean Volume 86, but your link goes to "the page you are looking for in this blog does not exist."

    I fixed it, thanks (none / 0) (#63)
    by Dadler on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 10:52:32 AM EST
    Wrong Button Syndrome.

    It happens (none / 0) (#70)
    by Zorba on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 12:32:12 PM EST
    to the best of us.     ;-)