Wednesday Open Thread

I'm off to the mountains for a jail visit.

Here's an open thread, all Non-Zimmerman topics welcome.

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    Matchmaker, matchmaker.... (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 01:53:57 PM EST
    Found George Zimmerman's soulmate, she lives in the Toronto area.

    See, Zimmerman is right (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 02:22:11 PM EST
    once again the a**hole got away. Zimmerman would have pursued the kid up the sidewalk and shot him.

    Question, kdog: (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 03:26:33 PM EST
    If the Egyptian military forcible removes its country's president from office, but the U.S. cable news networks decides that covering George Zimmerman's trial was so much more important, how many margaritas would it take for us to finally comprehend the logic of it all? It's not even 11:00 a.m. out here, and already I need a drink.

    Forget that drink. (none / 0) (#13)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 03:37:14 PM EST
    I've long ago lost count... (none / 0) (#63)
    by kdog on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 08:59:29 AM EST
    of the number of 'ritas and rippers, and I still can't find the logic behind pretty much anything that goes down in this world.

    Color me perpetually confused.


    Commenter CHC got this right IMO (none / 0) (#3)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 02:05:49 PM EST
    The neighbor who called 911 should have been arrested for abusing the 911 system. 911* is for emergencies, not ignorant neighbors who have a lot of time on their hands.

    Regarding a Pennsylvania mother (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 02:29:51 PM EST
    whose newborn infant had been removed by the state due to a false positive on a drug test at the hospital (she did get the baby back a few days afterwards):

    A Pennsylvania woman whose infant daughter was taken away from her by state authorities when she was just three days old, all due to a false positive on a drug test, won a $143,500 settlement Tuesday.

    The lawsuit (PDF), filed in 2010 by the American Civil Liberties Union of Pennsylvania, alleged that a drug test she and her child were unknowingly subjected to came back positive for opiates because she ate an "Everything" bagel hours before giving birth.

    The bagels, coated with seeds of poppy, sesame and caraway, has been known to trigger false positives for opiates on urine analysis tests -- there was even an episode of Discovery's "Mythbusters" dedicated to the topic.


    A poppy seed bagel.  Well, who knows what would have happened if she had been eating some poppy seed hamantaschen or some Eastern European poppy seed strudel!
    Poppy seeds.  Obviously a clear and present danger.  
    Not to mention the whole chilling process that requires routine drug testing on all newborns, even absent any indication that the mother has a drug problem, and the whisking away of the infant before any investigation whatsoever.

    Now that's child abuse... (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 02:43:39 PM EST
    straight up child abuse.

    The poor mother and child will never get those critical days of early bonding back.

    Ladies and Germs your war on drugs, more harmful to society than any drug known to mankind.


    Exactly so, Dog (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 02:52:17 PM EST
    Exactly so.  
    The first few days after birth are so important to the bonding and the breast-feeding process.
    No other proof.  Zip, nada, nothing.  Just, let's take that baby away.
    Paranoia reigns.  The Bill of Rights continues to be shredded.

    God forbid (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 03:09:24 PM EST
    they caught the mother breast feeding, that's a drug distribution charge.  If the hospital was next to a school, forget about it!

    False positive information (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 02:58:29 PM EST
    Drug tests generally produce false-positive results in 5 percent to 10 percent of cases and false negatives in 10 percent to 15 percent of cases, new research shows.

    Eating as little as a teaspoon of poppy seeds - less than the amount on a poppy seed bagel - can produce false-positive results on tests for opioid abuse, according to Dr. Dwight Smith, of the Veterans Affairs Medical Center in Black Hills, S.D.

    The poppy seeds can lead to false-positive results for two or three days, he said, yet one recent study showed only about half of doctors were aware of the problem.

    Cold medications, the antidepressant Wellbutrin and tricyclic antidepressants can trigger false-positive results on tests for amphetamines, according to the review, and the antidepressant Zoloft and the painkiller Daypro can show up as a benzodiazepine problem.

    The quinolone antibiotic drugs can trigger false positives for opioids, and the HIV medication Sustiva can show up as marijuana use, Smith said. link

    Wow - missed that one (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by Yman on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 03:38:26 PM EST
    Hard to believe they use tests so succeptible to false positives and they wouldn't run a more sensitive test on the baby before taking such drastic action.

    I had a drug test many years ago as part of a background/employment check.  The form had a question about whether I had recently eaten any of several foods, including "poppyseeds".  I told the guy I had eaten a poppyseed bagel that morning, and his response was something along the lines of "No problem - not nearly enough poppyseeds on that to affect the test."  I asked, "Well, ... why do they ask about poppyseeds then?", and his response was along the lines of "Oh, in case you'd eaten a can of poppyseed filling, or something like that."

    Who the he// eats a can of poppyseed filling?


    Thanks for flagging this, Zorba (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by Peter G on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 03:51:39 PM EST
    Once again, so proud of my excellent ACLU affiliate. The lack of due process for parents (not to mention common sense) in the "child protective services" racket is appalling, with truly harmful consequences to families.

    And good for them! (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 04:55:12 PM EST
    I have been a member of the national ACLU, and my own Maryland affiliate, for over 25 years.
    Lack of due process indeed, and egregious over-reach.

    Military ousts (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 03:49:27 PM EST
    Morsi in Egypt.


    UN Secy-General condemns Snowden (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Politalkix on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 08:52:54 PM EST
    A little illumination, from the article: (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by shoephone on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 10:19:36 PM EST
    Ban's remarks, recorded in notes taken by two people present at the meeting and confirmed by a third, provoked expressions of surprise from committee members. His depiction of Snowden as someone who had misused access to information came just hours after the NSA whistleblower made a formal request for asylum to the Icelandic government.

    In interviews with the Guardian, Snowden identified Iceland as one of his top choices as a possible safe haven.

    Birgitta Jónsdóttir, a member of the committee who was present at the meeting, asked Ban to clarify his comments on whistleblowers. He replied: "Access can be for the greater good, but sometimes it creates bigger problems through misuse by individuals."

    Jónsdóttir, who participated with WikiLeaks in 2010 at the time it published US state secrets leaked by the intelligence analyst Bradley Manning, said she was alarmed by Ban's intervention in the Snowden controversy. "I see it as wrong for the secretary general of the United Nations to condemn Snowden personally in front of our foreign affairs committee. He seemed entirely unconcerned about the invasion of privacy by governments around the world, and only concerned about how whistleblowers are misusing the system."

    It seems Icelanders are not on board with the Edward-Snowden-is-a-dangerous-traitor talking points.


    Good news for the Occupy movement (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by shoephone on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 10:52:50 PM EST
    and bad news for the police state:

    Oakland Occupy Protesters Win $1 Million Compensation From Oakland Police Department. Hearing loss, burned feet, unjustified incarcerations. Photographer shot in the groin with a bean bag fired from a 12-guage shotgun, You know, the typical stuff. Now the cops need to think before they act, merely "following orders."

    Anderson said her brief experience of incarceration prompted her to donate part of her $20,000 payout to a charity that promotes prisoners' rights. She added: "I felt strongly the Occupy movement was a movement of the 99% who saw their families lose their jobs, their homes, healthcare and rights. You shouldn't get attacked and jailed for exercising your democratic right to protest. I have been back at the protests and I will continue to speak out but we fear these police actions are intended to deter us from exercising our right to protest."

    Let's hope it's a precedent.

    U of Wisconsin students lay waste to NSA (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by Edger on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 10:41:00 AM EST
    These students are what Assange talked about (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by Edger on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 11:02:18 AM EST
    on June 22nd, when he said...

    One day, their generation will run the NSA, the CIA and the FBI.

    This isn't a phenomenon that is going away.

    This is inevitable.

    And by trying to crush these young whistleblowers with espionage charges, the US government is taking on a generation, and that is a battle it is going to lose.

    from the constitutional-analysis dept (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by Edger on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 05:52:52 PM EST
    July 3, 2013, TechDirt, Legal Issues
    Snowden's Constitution vs Obama's Constitution
    Edward Snowden is not a constitutional lawyer. But his public statement explaining his decision to blow the whistle on what he and Congress both know to be only the "tip of the iceberg" of state snooping secrets expresses a belief in the meaning of the Constitution: in a democracy, the people - not his defense contractor employers or the government that hires them - should ultimately determine whether mass surveillance interfering with everyone's privacy is reasonable.

    (long analysis follows this paragraph)

    Forgot to update (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 09:27:10 AM EST
    the mid-year price of gold for the resident gold bug that touted everyone here to buy gold at the start of the year.

    With the good jobs report out this morning the price of gold continues to fall.

    For those that followed the Buy Gold advice from he who shall remain nameless:

    YTD you have lost 27% of your investment.

    The gold stuff I agree with... (5.00 / 3) (#66)
    by Dadler on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 09:53:00 AM EST
    ...the jobs report is utter horsesh*t, nothing but the propaganda of a nation that hates its own citizens and does not think they deserve, as human beings, jobs that pay enough to live on. That's a dying nation, not one that should be celebrating lies foaming out of the mouths of a thoroughly bought and paid for, corrupt to the core, completely uninterested in doing anything for working people government.

    Can you tell I consider jobs numbers to be about as reliable as civilian causualty figures from the military?

    But gold, sure, you can't eat it, make clothing or shelter out of it, so essentially its as useless in a corrupt economy as the worthless trinkets and blips we slave away for.

    Phuck the roof, raise the floor!


    Oh come now D.... (none / 0) (#69)
    by Edger on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 10:02:28 AM EST
    With a little bit of hard work and applying themselves, everyone could be a wall street millionaire by next week, no?

    Your view of gold is flawed (none / 0) (#78)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 11:40:28 AM EST
    "its as useless in a corrupt economy as the worthless trinkets and blips we slave away for"

    On the contrary, when people view the ecomony as corrupt and crashing the value of gold increases.


    Whenever the military (none / 0) (#97)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 03:25:25 PM EST
    launches another large scale, overseas blood-letting venture, the price of "precious metals" tends to go up as well..

    Mrs. Hosni Mubarak contacted me, lol (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Dadler on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 10:04:45 AM EST
    This is the scam email I just got, too hilarious, but you gotta admire the nads:

    Attention Please, I am Mrs. Susanne the wife of the Former Leader in Egypt Hosni Mubarak. You may aware that my husband is presently facing life sentence in Egypt and we his family members are not free. All our documents and Money has been seized to prevent us from traveling out of the country. I need somebody from outside my country who I can transfer my funds to. For the future of my children, The Amount is US$50,000,000.00 (Fifty Million United States Dollars).You can imagine the government had seized my family up keeping assets in Egypt, Please if you are capable to receive and handle the $50,000,000.00 USD keep me posted urgently. I want you to indicate your interest and provide the basic information to me as follow. Your Full name, Address, Age, and cell phone number. So that I will forward them to my accounting officer in the bank immediately to verify your capability and transfer the fund to you for business purpose and safe keeping for the future of my children, I need your honesty and trust, if you will be good to me I will entrust more funds on your care, and we will negotiate on the percentage that I will offer you of the total funds. I am waiting your respond to this my private Email Address. Yours Faithfully. Mrs. Susanne Hosni Mubarak.

    Well, that sure as (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Zorba on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 02:57:07 PM EST
    heck is different, at least.  Maybe too many people have finally figured out the Nigerian scam.     :-)
    Hope springs eternal, I guess.  But the alarming thing is that there are probably a few people who receive this and will get sucked in.  Not to mention the number of predators willing to prey upon people.  And, of course, I also realize that those marks who are sucked into this kind of scam are those idiots who think that they can get a bunch of money for doing nothing.
    Keep an eye out for your next email, Dadler, from Naglaa Ali Mahmoud, Mohamed Morsi's wife.

    That's a variation on the Mexican-Spanish Jail (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 03:07:12 PM EST
    swindle that goes back to at least the Twenties..

    "You f'd up. You trusted us." -- Otter (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by Edger on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 10:08:57 AM EST
    "The Austrian daily newspaper, Die Presse, has reported that the United States ambassador to Austria was responsible for making false claims that National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden was on board Bolivian President Evo Morales' plane.

    In a story published on July 3, the newspaper reported shortly after Morales' plane landed the "Vienna foreign department received a phone call." The caller was the US ambassador to Austria, William Eacho.

    According to Die Presse, Eacho "claimed with great certainty that Edward Snowden was onboard." He also made reference to a "diplomatic note requesting Snowden's extradition."

    -- US Ambassador to Austria Reportedly Responsible for False Claim Snowden Was on Bolivian Leader's Plane

    Poor information or just intentional (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 10:22:13 AM EST
    intimidation? From link above:

    What makes the incident even more remarkable is that Morales was never at the Moscow airport where Snowden has been stuck for over a week now. He departed from Vnukovo Airport, which is twenty-seven miles away.

    An example of horrible reporting (none / 0) (#76)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 11:33:58 AM EST
    Which airport he potentially leaves from is meaningless. Russia has already hinted that a car with diplomatic plates would be free to pick up Snowden and take him elsewhere. This was said while the other nation's leaders were in Moscow. Likely stated as an invitation to please get him off our our hands.

    Ah, do you have a link (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 03:07:34 PM EST
    to any report that a car with diplomatic plates picked Snowden up at the Sheremetyevo Airport and transfered him to the Vnukovo Airport?

    Nope (none / 0) (#100)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 03:47:06 PM EST
    Nor do I particularly care where he winds up other than personally evaluating the possibilities. I think he remains in his self imposed airport hotel cell. I was just saying that it's possible for him to travel from one airport to the other if another government chose to help.

    A car with diplomatic plates (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 03:49:21 PM EST
    Could pick him up and put him on a boat too :).  I have no idea where he is, but the possibilities :)

    But wouldn't he (none / 0) (#102)
    by jbindc on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 03:49:33 PM EST
    leave the "safe space" while going to the car with diplomatic plates in that scenario? He can't leave the airport, because he can't go through customs, because he doesn't have a valid passport.

    Even if there is a "back door", the moment he steps out of the airport, but before he gets in a car with diplomatic plates, he is on Russian soil and can be picked up.


    That is all Putin's call (5.00 / 3) (#103)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 03:52:58 PM EST
    Didn't he invite someone to pick Snowden up?  I'm pretty sure if Putin wanted him, he'd take him in the airport too, whether he had cleared customs or not.

    Indeed (none / 0) (#105)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 04:05:12 PM EST
    only if Putin wants him gone. Or is Snowden now little more than a negotiating chip to get someone like Viktor Bout back home (I'd think possible on the chip but not on Bout)

    Remember the US and Russia were somewhat sharing info on Tamerlan Tsarnaev. I'm sure they'd like to share more if it could prevent other terrorist acts in either country.


    I think Putin gets more mileage (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 04:16:50 PM EST
    Out of promoting and breeding distrust of us.  He'll work with us when it is Chechens.  Spying and spies though?  I don't think he wants anybody back we have.  But Snowden free tarnishes U.S. global benevolence.  Snowden free keeps the single global superpower a little off balance in projection of dominance and force.

    For Putin, Snowden is the best thing he has going on other than his oil profits, as powers collide.  I think he is giggling every morning sitting on the potty :)  And leaving Snowden alone for diplomatic immunity reasons makes him look a lot more respectful in the realm of International law than we do right now.  Particularly after the Bolivia stunt we pulled.  Putin is having the time of his life, we look like blithering idiots :)


    The only thing I heard (none / 0) (#106)
    by jbindc on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 04:06:23 PM EST
    about a car and diplomatic plates is that when Snowden LANDED in Russia, the plane was not allowed to come to the terminal.  It was stopped on the jetway, and a car with diplomatic plates came up, Snowden came off the plane, and then taken to where he is now.

    I guess Putin could take him back out, but he won't.


    He doesn't have to be in a big hurry (none / 0) (#109)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 04:19:38 PM EST
    And because it is us, he won't be in any sort of hurry deliberately :)

    AP reporting (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 10:24:05 AM EST
    Spanish Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo said Friday that his nation and other European countries were told Snowden was aboard the Bolivian presidential plane.

    The minister did not say who supplied the information and declined to say whether he had been in contact with the United States. But he said European countries' reactions were based on this information. Garcia-Margallo insisted earlier that Spain did not prevent Morales' plane from landing in its territory.
    Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro protested alleged attempts by Spanish officials to search the Bolivian presidential plane and accused the CIA of encouraging several European countries to deny the presidential plane their airspace.

    "A minster of one of those European governments told me personally that it was the CIA who gave the order to the aeronautical authorities, the one who gave the alert that Snowden was on the plane," he said at a rally at a sports arena ahead of the summit. "The CIA is more powerful that governments." link

    B-b-but, but, but.... (none / 0) (#74)
    by Edger on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 11:01:55 AM EST
    There must be something we can change the subject to, no?

    I mean it could be worse, right? We haven't invaded, uhhhmmm, somehwere, yet, right? Look over there! Republicans! OMG! ;-)


    If only the "far left" or those known (5.00 / 2) (#136)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 10:28:59 AM EST
    to have an anti-Obama agenda would stop questioning the disclosed NSA activities. :o)

    Eugene Robinson Op Ed

    I don't believe government officials when they say the National Security Agency's (NSA) surveillance programs do not invade our privacy. The record suggests that you shouldn't believe them, either.

    It pains me to sound like some Rand Paul acolyte. I promise I'm not wearing a tinfoil hat or scanning the leaden sky for black helicopters. I just wish our government would start treating us like adults -- more important, like participants in a democracy -- and stop lying. We can handle the truth.

    The starkest lie came in March at a Senate intelligence committee hearing, when Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) asked Director of National Intelligence James Clapper a simple question: "Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?"

    Clapper replied, "No, sir."
    Also untrue is President Obama's assertion that the NSA surveillance programs are "transparent." They are, in fact, completely opaque -- or were, until Snowden started leaking the agency's secrets.

    By what authority does the government collect data on our private communications? We don't know. More accurately, we're not permitted to know. link

    "I'm a real liberal, you facist swine" (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by Dadler on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 11:29:53 AM EST
    You have... (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by sj on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 11:39:38 AM EST
    ... the most interesting friends.

    ran across him on the internet... (none / 0) (#79)
    by Dadler on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 11:44:38 AM EST
    ...after about 35 years since our last contact, when we were both baseball fanatics and playing 2 man over the line all day all summer in the mid 70s.

    I like it. (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by shoephone on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 11:55:17 AM EST
    He definitely cuts to the chase.

    I need to meet (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by Zorba on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 03:27:42 PM EST
    your old friend, Dadler.  It sounds like he and I would both get along great.
    But then, I too am a way left-wing, real Liberal.    ;-)

    The on;y thing with which I take issue (none / 0) (#99)
    by Anne on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 03:37:15 PM EST
    is his reference to "Libertarian paradise."

    In no way do I, at least, equate being a hard-core liberal with being what we understand "Libertarian" to mean; these are not interchangeable terms for me.

    Neither, however, are "liberal" and "Democrat," as much as conservatives and Republicans want to conflate them.


    I'd agree with you (none / 0) (#111)
    by Dadler on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 06:03:46 PM EST
    Though I'm pretty sure establishment Libertarianism is not at all what he means.

    What anti-USA rhetoric would that be? (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by shoephone on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 11:26:56 PM EST
    Oh. You mean exposing the U.S. government's secret spying on American citizens. Right-o.

    Wherever Snowden ends up, his first priority will be his safety. I expect he'll keep a low profile. After all, he doesn't have to spout anything. The Guardian and Greenwald and Poitras and Wikileaks, etc. already have the remaining documents.

    In response to #119 (none / 0) (#124)
    by shoephone on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 11:28:13 PM EST
    Ha Ha Ha (none / 0) (#125)
    by Politalkix on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 12:17:10 AM EST
    So Venezuela and Nicaragua are the only countries in the planet that care about the U.S. government's secret spying on American citizens in your opinion!
    Actually, from what has been revealed so far, some European governments should have more reason to feel angry, not Venezuela or Nicaragua. Some Latin American leaders are more interested in using Snowden as a propaganda tool to cover up their human rights abuses, undemocratic methods of suppressing dissent and general incompetence to improve the lives of their people. Sadly, all this is happening at a time when the United States was really making efforts to improve its relationships with Latin American countries and Cuba (which would have been beneficial to all-usa as well the entire South American continent).
    Unfortunately, some of you are so invested in the politics of the past and a visceral desire to hurt the administration by any means that you will be willing to stop at nothing. Keep it going! In my opinion, you will gain nothing but lose more than you are imagining at this point. I do not think that Greenwald, Poitras or Wikileaks will be able to influence any dialogue in this country. The majority of people in this country have already formed an adverse opinion of Snowden, that opinion will worsen once he is in Venezuela. Since some Latin American leaders have decided to stick a finger in the eye of our leaders (with the blessings of Russia and China), I believe our foreign policy will also take a more rightward turn from now onwards. Snowden would not care if the world lapsed back to the days of the Cold War (actually, he would be safer that way), neither would Greenwald. But some of us do care, we are therefore not cheering the rhetoric and hyperbole that comes from the likes of you.

    Your comment makes no sense (5.00 / 3) (#126)
    by shoephone on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 12:44:55 AM EST
    Not if it's in response to mine, anyway. What a bunch of jingoistic gobbledygook.

    "Ha Ha Ha?" (5.00 / 3) (#137)
    by Anne on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 10:33:19 AM EST
    What, about any of this, is funny?

    Grow the fk up.


    Anne (1.00 / 4) (#138)
    by Politalkix on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 10:43:16 AM EST
    "Grow the fk up"?
    Please calm down. You are appearing increasingly unhinged.

    Not Increasingly Unhinged (1.00 / 4) (#139)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 11:08:08 AM EST
    Hurling insults, name calling, all par for the course.... That's our Anne.  All justified...  seems like she would feel justified in pepper spraying you, were she able to do it through the internets..

    Oy (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by sj on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 01:36:07 PM EST
    That's rich coming from you. And you should know, oddly enough, I really do cut you some slack for your inept discussion because you are an artist (I'm not sure why that makes a difference to me, but it does). But sometimes a troll is just a troll.

    Or, to be more specific (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by sj on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 01:36:52 PM EST
    ... a troll-like comment is just a troll-like comment.

    Shoephone (none / 0) (#127)
    by Politalkix on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 12:46:00 AM EST

    Ask yourself why Maduro brought up the situation is Syria if all he is interested in is protecting the digital privacy of Americans and not using Snowden as a propaganda tool. Half the country thinks that Maduro stole the elections.

    "Maduro said Venezuela was ready to offer him sanctuary, and that the details Snowden had revealed of U.S. spy programs had exposed the nefarious schemes of the U.S. "empire."

    "Who is the guilty one? A young man ... who denounces war plans, or the U.S. government which launches bombs and arms the terrorist Syrian opposition against the people and legitimate President Bashar al-Assad?" he asked, to applause and cheers from ranks of military officers at the parade.

    "Who is the terrorist? Who is the global delinquent?"

    Venezuela's opposition leader, Henrique Capriles, accused Maduro of making a fuss about Snowden to distract voters from a dismal economic picture at home, and a host of other problems including one of the highest murder rates in the world.

    "Nicolas, you can't use asylum to cover up that you stole the election. That doesn't give you legitimacy, nor make the people forget," Capriles said on Twitter


    Once again, (5.00 / 2) (#128)
    by shoephone on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 12:49:31 AM EST
    I have no idea what comment you think you are referring to, but it certainly has nothing to do with the one I made. I'm not cheerleading Venezuela or Nicaragua, or any other country. You are imagining things that were not said.

    Soon we will see who is bluffing (none / 0) (#134)
    by christinep on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 10:03:36 AM EST
    Politalkix: In follow-up to your comments, consider the role of Russia...even today.  Putin will act when he is ready, of course; but, until he is ready, Snowden will remain at his temporary terminal residence. We know that Nicaragua conditioned their willingness upon "if conditions allow" and we know that Maduro faces a stiff political opposition at home in Venezuela and we know that Snowden cannot leave if Putin still needs him (maybe for an "understanding" with us that Chechnya and the longstanding issues between Russia & Chechnya could now be viewed in a more favorable light to Putin...hmmmm) and we know that "clearing air space" vis-à-vis a fugitive from the US is also involved....  With all that as background, when it comes time for Putin together with Maduro to put-up-or-shut-up, then we will know for sure.  And, we will know very quickly, because it can occur very quickly.  If Putin wants it to occur.

    P.S.  Yes, I also saw Maduro's indirect praise of Syria's Assad.  All the interesting alliances are more than interesting.


    Pepe Escobar (3.50 / 2) (#59)
    by Edger on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 08:22:01 AM EST
    Obama chairing national security meeting in white house basement:

    "Fellas, here's the new script. In Egypt we support the army, not the Muslim Brotherhood. In Syria we support the Muslim Brotherhood, not the army. When in doubt, say we support "the people". Now go out there and bug them all."

    Very dishonest (1.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Politalkix on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 08:42:34 AM EST
    In Egypt, the US government is not supporting the army. It is asking the army to call elections ASAP. The US is repeatedly asking both sides to negotiate. In Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood was given the chance to form a government. They over reached by tampering too much with the Constitution and went for an Islamic agenda too quickly. Minorities and urban women are freking out.
    There is part in the the left side of politics which has no problems in lying and being extremely dishonest to move their agenda. Shame on you, Edgar!

    Not dishonest at all. You are flat out wrong. (none / 0) (#80)
    by shoephone on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 11:49:27 AM EST
    The U.S government is, indeed, supporting the Egyptian Army. Our government has been giving Egypt military support since 1948. Furthermore, the U.S. has given $1.5 - 2 billion  a year since 1979, when Egypt and Israel signed the Camp David Accords.



    Another link (none / 0) (#81)
    by shoephone on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 11:50:50 AM EST
    Now you are being dishonest (none / 0) (#84)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 12:46:51 PM EST
    the arms deals were with the Egyptian Government. They were not made with the Egyptian army as a separate entity

    Ask yourself this: (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by shoephone on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 12:51:20 PM EST
    Why is Obama refusing to call the military takeover as a "coup"?

    We are supporting the army (none / 0) (#85)
    by shoephone on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 12:49:24 PM EST
    And you are incredibly naive not to know that.

    from your own link (none / 0) (#87)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 01:05:38 PM EST
    the current arms deals were signed with former Egyptian leader Hosni Mubarak. You can play with words and terms all you want, but the arms deals were with the government, not the army as you suggest. You were dishonest.

    Government under Mubarak (none / 0) (#88)
    by shoephone on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 01:21:21 PM EST
    was essentially military rule. I guess you didn't know that.

    And, here, I will make it easy for you: (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by shoephone on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 01:23:56 PM EST
    The reason Obama refuses to call the takeover a "coup" is because under U.S. law, if our government considers any takeover a "coup," then all the money from the U.S. has to be cut off. And Obama isn't about to stop the flow of money to the Egyptian Army.

    I stand by my statement (none / 0) (#91)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 01:27:26 PM EST
    you were dishonest in your post. Nothing more for me to add.

    Your petty insults mean nothing (none / 0) (#93)
    by shoephone on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 01:48:18 PM EST
    And you are free to believe whatever you like.

    Egyptian Army fires on Morsi supporters (none / 0) (#83)
    by shoephone on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 12:09:13 PM EST
    We haven't invaded either country (none / 0) (#60)
    by MKS on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 08:38:41 AM EST
    That's a good thing.....Others want to and would have.

    National Intel Director lies to Congress; (none / 0) (#2)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 02:01:39 PM EST
    Nobody gives a rip.

    Truth is for little people.

    Personally... (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 02:44:41 PM EST
    I would only get nervous when the National Intelligence Director and the rest of the surveillance state start telling the truth.

    lol; I won't get nervous until Congress (none / 0) (#37)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 11:09:37 PM EST
    starts telling the truth.

    like prosecuting Roger Clemoms for (none / 0) (#20)
    by DFLer on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 06:23:53 PM EST
    "lying to Congress"

    That sounds so much better than ... (none / 0) (#10)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 03:05:17 PM EST
    Jeralyn: "I'm off to the mountains for a jail visit."

    ... being hauled off to jail while visiting the mountains. Have a safe day trip. As for myself, I get to pay a work-related site visit today to Oracle CEO Larry Ellison's new private reserve, the island of Lanai.

    Aloha, everyone. Remember to play nice with the other children -- or the Egyptian military will remove you from power.

    Donald and Dadler (none / 0) (#18)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 05:43:57 PM EST
    Thought you might like this.

    Brad Stevens is leaving Butler to coach the Celtics

    No kidding! (none / 0) (#21)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 08:45:46 PM EST
    I guess the Celtics made Stevens the sort of offer he simply couldn't refuse. I don't know how successful he'll be in the NBA, but let's see what he can do. I wonder how much say he'll actually have with the Celtics regarding personnel issues?

    And in other sports-related news, 28 NFL players have been arrested since the Super Bowl, and online bidding for Aaron Hernandez jerseys has reached $1,000 on eBay.

    Okay, it's time to board my return flight to HNL. Aloha.


    Holy cow! Seriously? (none / 0) (#29)
    by Teresa on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 09:33:25 PM EST
    I thought he was college all the way. I'm shocked.

    Justin Carter, the Texas teen ... (none / 0) (#19)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 06:23:51 PM EST
    who has been in prison since February for a sarcastic comment he made on Facebook, is currently on suicide watch.

    This is America, 2013.

    I didn't go to the link and read the (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Teresa on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 09:32:22 PM EST
    original article, but that's just ridiculous from what I did read. lol and j/k makes it pretty obvious he's joking. Maybe a tasteless joke, but I seriously doubt he meant it in the least. 8 years in prison if guilty?? $500,000 bail?

    It's the death of common sense. (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 10:17:55 PM EST
    Show me a teenager who doesn't crack wise on occasion, and I'll show you someone who'll someday make a perfect doormat for somebody. Show me a teenager who's been tossed into jail for six months by the authorities for being a smart aleck, and I'll show you a future candidate for psycho-emotional dysfunction.

    I mean, c'mon! Even a cursory investigation ought to dispel the authorities of any worries about this young guy, who did nothing more than offer an insensitive and irreverent comment that obviously went right over the head of some low-info busybody who's channeling her inner Helen Lovejoy. Personally, I think dim bulbs like her pose a greater threat to society than he ever did.

    I swear, nonsensical people who hurt kids with nonsensical decisions like this ought to make us all want to channel our own inner Gloria.



    For Robot Porter, Teresa, and Donald (none / 0) (#41)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 06:57:39 AM EST
    Playing the devil's advocate on this one...
    Just about month after Newtown, an 18 year old posts this online. (he's 19 now)

    From the police report:
    "I'm [expletive] in the head alright. I'ma shoot up a kindergarten/ And watch the blood of the innocent rain down/ And eat the beating heart of one of them."

    There is no mention of lol or j/k. That addition came from the defendant's father who has no evidence to support the claim, suggesting the account was closed or the message later deleted. Also, to say it's a sarcastic response is taking the direct word of his lawyer. I wouldn't view that line as sarcastic, but I might see this 19 year old as sick in the head.

    If no one said a word after that posting, and this kid walked into the elementary school in his neighborhood and started shooting, everyone of us would be saying, "How did his friends and family miss the signs. They were right there staring at them".


    I'm not saying don't investigate. (none / 0) (#58)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 02:17:01 AM EST
    I'm saying that an honest and rigorous look-see at this 18-year-old numbnutz would show he's no threat. What the point of holding him in jail for 7 months? Surely, those in charge can be more creative in setting examples.

    I think that, increasingly, the answer (none / 0) (#62)
    by Anne on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 08:44:53 AM EST
    to your question is, "because we can."

    I mean, when you actually consider the alternatives to where the present situation is, that seems to be the only answer that makes any sense: because we can.

    Not a particularly good sign, I don't think, in terms of the direction things - in general - seem to be heading.


    Investigators executed a search warrant (none / 0) (#64)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 09:09:04 AM EST
    at his home after being notified of the posting and arrested him a week later. I don't think either of us have a clue if he's a threat. Obviously both the investigators and the judge believe so.

    I need law help (none / 0) (#22)
    by Teresa on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 08:46:26 PM EST
    For the past several days, the media narrative that I've seen is kind of drifting from Murder 2 to them now saying manslaughter would be a good compromise verdict for the jury.

    I don't agree with that IF it's self-defense because unlike some places where you don't stay in prison long, GZ could be in prison for up to 30 years. I think most media, like Piers Morgan who just nearly fell out of his chair when he heard that (he thought it would be a deserved 2-3 years) don't understand that.

    That's beside the point though, since the jury won't know that their compromise won't be a few years, but possibly up to 30. My question is, if they rule it self-defense, everything I can find says you can't find someone guilty of manslaughter IF it's self-defense.

    So which is it? Can it be both? Not guilty on Murder 2 by reason of self-defense (it just says Not Guilty___doesn't it?), but guilty of Manslaughter? I know Jeralyn has posted the instructions, but I've watched too much TV and now I'm confused again as usual. The Murder 2 line on the jury form doesn't say Not Guilty due to self-defense, does it? Can someone explain in plain English to me?

    ^^ Crap, wrong thread, don't answer! (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Teresa on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 08:46:56 PM EST
    USPS logging all mail (none / 0) (#25)
    by Politalkix on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 09:11:10 PM EST

    "Court challenges to mail covers have generally failed because judges have ruled that there is no reasonable expectation of privacy for information contained on the outside of a letter. Officials in both the Bush and Obama administrations, in fact, have used the mail-cover court rulings to justify the N.S.A.'s surveillance programs, saying the electronic monitoring amounts to the same thing as a mail cover. Congress briefly conducted hearings on mail cover programs in 1976, but has not revisited the issue."

    And linking absolutely everybody... (none / 0) (#38)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 11:11:54 PM EST
    ... Santa Claus.

    He might be a terrorist (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by shoephone on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 02:03:49 AM EST
    You never know. Red suit, fake beard, sneaks into houses in the middle of the night to leave suspicious "packages"... And it's imperative that the USPS and its masters in the NSA log data on 160 billion pieces of mail each year, because, think about it: During the second and third weeks of December, there are millions of cards and envelopes with a picture of the Santerrorist somewhere on them.

    Total Yuletide Awareness could save your life, Mister.


    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 56 (none / 0) (#26)
    by Dadler on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 09:23:21 PM EST
    Profile of Rex Harrison's son (none / 0) (#27)
    by Dadler on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 09:26:48 PM EST
    Senator Mark Udall's brother (none / 0) (#30)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 09:59:04 PM EST
    James "Randy" Udall was found dead.  No foul play was suspected.


    Very sad. (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by christinep on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 10:12:59 PM EST
    My husband & I heard it on the way back from a dinner out tonight.

    Senator Udall and family said that his brother, Randy, died hiking near his favorite trail in the beautiful Wind River Range.

    The Udall family are uniformly good, caring people--appreciating, loving, & working for our wondrous environment in every form.  My husband and I always thank and remember Mark and Maggie Udall and the entire Udall family for their lifelong contributions to Colorado. Our deepest sympathy.


    Yes, I have always (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 10:16:54 PM EST
    liked the Udall family.
    And may they be comforted at least a little bit by knowing that Randy died while doing something he loved to do.  

    That's awful. (none / 0) (#31)
    by shoephone on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 10:12:52 PM EST
    Neither rain, nor snow, nor sleet, nor hail (none / 0) (#40)
    by Edger on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 05:15:52 AM EST
    shall keep them from their appointed rounds...

    New York Times, July 03, 2013:

    WASHINGTON -- Leslie James Pickering noticed something odd in his mail last September: a handwritten card, apparently delivered by mistake, with instructions for postal workers to pay special attention to the letters and packages sent to his home.

    "Show all mail to supv" -- supervisor -- "for copying prior to going out on the street," read the card. It included Mr. Pickering's name, address and the type of mail that needed to be monitored. The word "confidential" was highlighted in green.
     As the world focuses on the high-tech spying of the National Security Agency, the misplaced card offers a rare glimpse inside the seemingly low-tech but prevalent snooping of the United States Postal Service.

    Mr. Pickering was targeted by a longtime surveillance system called mail covers, a forerunner of a vastly more expansive effort, the Mail Isolation Control and Tracking program, in which Postal Service computers photograph the exterior of every piece of paper mail that is processed in the United States -- about 160 billion pieces last year. It is not known how long the government saves the images.

    Together, the two programs show that postal mail is subject to the same kind of scrutiny that the National Security Agency has given to telephone calls and e-mail.
    "I'm no terrorist," he said. "I'm an activist."

    France does massive data surveillance (none / 0) (#44)
    by Politalkix on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 11:24:57 AM EST

    I was really amused to find how hard a lot of people here fell for the kabuki from European politicians.

    BBC link about French surveillance (none / 0) (#45)
    by Politalkix on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 11:27:00 AM EST
    The end of innocence :-) (none / 0) (#46)
    by Politalkix on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 12:19:20 PM EST

    More about the data surveillance program of France...


    Guardian article on French spying (none / 0) (#47)
    by Politalkix on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 12:33:03 PM EST

    I am laughing so hard at the bambi like innocence of some posters that any one can knock me out with a feather right now. :-).


    No doubt they could (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by Yman on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 04:29:04 PM EST
    But that's not the reason.

    A lot of egg in faces of people (none / 0) (#48)
    by Politalkix on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 03:21:55 PM EST
    who kept on insisting that the Europeans were "appalled" by what the NSA was doing.

    The New York Times explains it. link

    What posters? What "egg"? (5.00 / 4) (#50)
    by Yman on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 04:34:08 PM EST
    Not sure what you're all giddy about, but you should ease up on those patriotic cocktails.  By "Europeans", were they referring to the European people, or the governments doing the spying?  Because the people are outraged, and they've fought back (and won).  

    Your point is well made, Politalkix (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by christinep on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 04:36:46 PM EST
    Additionally: After these weeks, still no takers...still no country ("appalled" or not) willing to offer asylum.  Ecuador spoke loudly, initially...Bogota is remonstrating even more...and so it goes.  And, somehow, anyone knows at a gut-check level that Russia via Putin has had opportunity to revive & potentially reinvigorate some of its own homegrown protester--there are a lot more than Pussy Riot by easily gaining access to Snowden in the "transit" zone populated by Russian officials ... but, let's guess that Putin is alert enough to not want the hassle on Russian soil.  Nor, it seems did any of the potential "appalled" states do anything but move away with a noise to detract from the fact that said countries did not want that type of known & potential trouble (aka leaker) on their soil.  Fascinating, indeed.

    Even more fascinating in the short terms is the little dust-up in the past 24 hours about whether Snowden actually authored his most recent statement ... with Greenwald observing that the "flavor" of the statement did not sound like Snowden while the Wiki-Leaks spokesman countered later that Snowden was the author.  

    International Relations, as a subject matter, has rarely been so multi-layered. Like an onion.


    "Bogota" should read "Bolivia" (none / 0) (#52)
    by christinep on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 04:41:11 PM EST
    Gee, I must be channeling Colombia.

    Well, after Evo Morales shores up his support at home as the strong one who challenged the US, we'll undoubtedly gradually return to status quo ante in Bolivia.


    Christinep, I cannot understand (none / 0) (#56)
    by Politalkix on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 06:53:38 PM EST
    why Russia is not putting him in an airplane to Iceland, if they do not want him. Snowden can be Iceland's problem from that point onwards.
    Is Snowden still in Moscow airport's transit zone? I am wondering if Vlad the Putin, has arranged to spirit him away by road or ship to some other country and his airport stay is just a head fake.

    Anna Chapman wants to marry him.


    A couple of things (none / 0) (#57)
    by christinep on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 08:49:58 PM EST
    One: What is the biggest value to Putin?  It seems to me that he plays for advantage in the Mideast. How...I don't know the outline, but some kind of larger Syrian context, perhaps.  Plus: Of course, the mutual gambit where the smaller S.A. countries can avail themselves of the Russian venue (as they did) enhance those countries, thereby giving Putin a nice chit in the process with some trade/exchange options for all.

    Two: As to the lately unseen Snowden, he could be anywhere.  But, in terms of leverage, Putin's interest would be in being able to deliver him when the time comes.

    Three:  The Iceland aspect has confounded me for one major reason.  That is, the severe economic & government-changing crisis endured by Iceland during the far-reaching recession in recent years has to have had a huge psychological impact there.  The one-time financially well-off country plummeted with their ill-timed extensive European bank transactions.  It would be hard to see Iceland go too far afield from Europe and maybe even the US after its recent, harsh economic experience.  Bank interactions, tourist $$$ and all that.  The bottom-line would be "What does Snowden bring them but trouble?"  But, that is just my guess.

    Lately, I've been thinking:  There are nation-states and, in these days of vast internet communications, there are individuals who might substitute their personal "law" for that of the traditional nation-state.  While each nation-state can be expected to act in a way perceived to be to its advantage, the reality of the new non-aligned individual leaker could well be viewed with more suspicion/concern than the known state entity.  


    I have no idea why you can't stop (5.00 / 4) (#53)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 05:14:19 PM EST
    snorting with glee that it's been revealed that the French - as well as the Brits - have massive spying programs collecting data on their citizens.

    I thought the outrage being expressed by the French and German governments was in light of the revelation that the US is spying on them, you know, countries thought to be our allies.

    I also have no idea why you think there shouldn't be anger over all of these revelations.  Oh, wait - you don't see the harm, so that must be it.  We're just supposed to be going along with it because it's in our best interests, right?

    Do you have any idea how desperate your multiple giggling comments make you appear to be, as you try way too hard to find something, anything, you can use to ridicule people?  Worse, what you've found isn't what you think it is, and it doesn't do what you want it to.

    I guess you are more concerned with "getting" those you dislike, and not at all about the actual issues at hand.  Aside from the rank immaturity of that effort, it puts your ignorance on display in a way that might make you want to check out the mirror to make sure that egg isn't dripping from your laughing visage.


    Admit it, Anne (1.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Politalkix on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 06:16:42 PM EST
    You were not expecting the shoe to drop like this but don't say that you were not warned.
    Is being a "dissident" that is protesting America's security state apparatus while living in exile in France still an "honorable" option?
    BTW, France will not grant asylum to Snowden.

    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 59 (none / 0) (#67)
    by Dadler on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 09:54:35 AM EST
    oops, make that Vol. 58 n/t (none / 0) (#68)
    by Dadler on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 09:55:04 AM EST
    Iceland says not likely to Snowden (none / 0) (#90)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 01:25:21 PM EST
    Coming up snake eyes thus far from the 21 countries where he has applied for asylum, Snowden has applied to an additional six countries today according to Wikileaks.

    As they haven't named these six, his best bets may still be Bolivia or Venezuela (forget Ecuador).

    On a similar note, banks don't like to hire embezzlers.

    Yes, But (none / 0) (#92)
    by squeaky on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 01:29:46 PM EST
    That analysis was delightful (none / 0) (#107)
    by sj on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 04:10:39 PM EST
    I found this notion gratifying:
    So Snowden could foreseeably be in Argentina, Austria, Bolivia, Brazil, Ecuador, Russia, Suriname, Uruguay, or Venezuela. And there's no reason to believe we'd know one way or another.
    The downside to all this is that the US could conceivably capture and disappear him without anyone knowing -- unless maybe another whistleblower came forward.

    Guesing game (none / 0) (#114)
    by Politalkix on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 07:01:25 PM EST
    What are the possible additional 6 countries where Snowden applied for asylum?

    Here are my picks

    Pros: borders Russia, so do not have to fly over airspace of other countries; ruled by Lukashenko (last true dictator in heart of Europe and there is no autocrat that Assange and Greenwald do not like); within Russia's sphere of influence; will enable Lukashenko to improve his image in the west.
    Cons: He may get bored in Belarus and may try to run back into Russia without a visa.

    (2) North Korea
    Pros: Completely cut off from rest of the world, no CIA agaents there. Will be easy to get asylum, especially if Denis Rodman puts in a good word for Snowden to Kim Jong Un.
    Cons: If the younger Kim is his father's son, Snowden may have to sing karaoke for the Fearless Leader.

    (3) Iran
    Pros: Will get good protection inside the country; Iran may even arrange for a burka wearing, pole dancing girl friend if Snowden can impress with his hacking skills.
    Cons: They may ask him to put software patches to fix out of control centrifuges that are hacked by the US and Israel.

    (4) Kazakhstan
    Pros: Will probably be easy to get asylum as the country needs a new public relations star after Borat. Borders Russia, so it won't be a problem to sneak Snowden there.
    Cons: May not be the safest place for Snowden, as the country is making too many oil deals with the west.

    (5) Pakistan
    Pros: Has a good track record of hiding people in military college towns. Snowden can wait out the rest of BHO's term and hope that Rand Paul becomes the next President. Greenwald can also use him as the made for TV face for his anti-drone campaign.
    Cons: Rand Paul will never be the next President.

    (6) Greece
    Pros: Beautiful place, idyllic surroundings (just like Hawaii)
    Cons: Greece may turn him in during the next bailout negotiations.


    Joshua claims that Attila the Hun (none / 0) (#104)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 04:03:12 PM EST
    Died of a nose bleed on his wedding night and  Tennessee Williams choked to death on the cap from eye drops.  Also some lawyer was demonstrating how to self inflict a gun shot and successfully shot himself and killed himself doing so, but won the case?  That Josh...telling lawyer jokes already :)

    Josh is right about T. Williams. As to A. Hun, (none / 0) (#110)
    by caseyOR on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 04:33:51 PM EST
    well, I'll take Josh's word for it. :-)

    Snowden may have found his final resting place (none / 0) (#112)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 06:31:10 PM EST

    Although (none / 0) (#113)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 06:32:28 PM EST
    there may be no way to get there.

    Venezuela (none / 0) (#117)
    by Politalkix on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 07:47:36 PM EST
    Nicaragua would be (none / 0) (#120)
    by MKS on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 10:19:48 PM EST
    a tough place for him to spend the rest of his life.

    Washington Post article on Egypt (none / 0) (#115)
    by Politalkix on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 07:37:36 PM EST
    The Egyptian military is saying that they got alarmed that Morsi was drawing them into war in Syria and Ethiopia.

    Washington Post article on Egypt (none / 0) (#116)
    by Politalkix on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 07:37:57 PM EST
    The Egyptian military is saying that they got alarmed that Morsi was drawing them into war in Syria and Ethiopia.

    Venezuela (none / 0) (#118)
    by Edger on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 09:38:26 PM EST
    is a done deal. All that's left is transportation, if he isn't already there.

    Venezuela provides the Russian Air Force access to a base off their Caribbean coast. Part of military ties between the two countries forged under Chavez.

    I don't think the Russian Air Force'd have any trouble overflying Spain, or France, or any other country.

    Gonna get real interesting now (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 11:16:18 PM EST
    Kittens (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by Edger on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 11:20:15 PM EST
    in the white house?

    Think I'd pass on Venezuela (none / 0) (#129)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 08:22:08 AM EST
    Depending on the site, it's listed as having the 4th or 5th highest murder rate in the world. I'd stick with the hotel room until my options improved.

    Don't know that his options will (none / 0) (#135)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 10:28:18 AM EST
    Improve.  After what happened to the Bolivian President, obviously the United States is applying some heavy pressures.

    He now has 3 maybes but not officials yet (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 11:23:33 AM EST
    I tried to evaluate the 3 in the newest Open Thread.

    Once he is inside Venezuela (1.00 / 2) (#119)
    by Politalkix on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 10:16:45 PM EST
    I hope he can show some spine and spout his economic libertarian beliefs and refrain from mouthing anti-USA rhetoric which his puppeteers may want him to do.  

    Because so far, he's been spineless? (4.20 / 5) (#132)
    by Anne on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 09:30:20 AM EST
    Good one.

    He doesn't really have to spout anti-USA rhetoric - our very own government is doing that for him, in what has been revealed, in what it has said and the actions it has taken since Snowden left for Hong Kong.

    This is just killing you, isn't it?  I can hear your teeth gnashing from here - you might want to look into mouth guards or your next dentist visit isn't going to be much fun.


    Obama & Holder (none / 0) (#130)
    by Edger on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 08:33:24 AM EST
    seem to love being told where to go these days. They invite it so often.

    The Guardian, July 06, 2013
    US request for extradition of Edward Snowden - full text

    A copy of the request sent to Venezuela to extradite the NSA whistleblower to the US should he arrive in the South American country

    7 pages to line the bottom of your birdcage with.

    Mark Fiore sez (none / 0) (#131)
    by Edger on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 09:04:26 AM EST
    It's Time To Wiretap Jesus.

    Well hey, it's the onliest way to save the homeland, eh?

    Besides, if he's without sin, he shouldn't complain, right?

    When you're sitting in Canada (none / 0) (#133)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 09:48:21 AM EST
    to which homeland are you referring?