Monday Open Thread

Here's an open thread for all topics except George Zimmerman. Please use a Zimmerman thread to comment on his case.

Thanks again to everyone who donated to TalkLeft this past week. It has been a huge help, and I will send thank you emails soon. I like to respond to every contributor, and this week there were a lot of them, almost all in response to our Zimmerman coverage.

I'll be back tonight.

< HLN Angela Corey Interview: Calls Zimmerman a "Murderer" | Zimmmerman Juror B-37 Seeks Book Deal >
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    Justin Carter is Out on Bail ... (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 04:20:36 PM EST
    thanks to an anonymous good Samaritan.

    Of course, he still faces criminal charges for making a sarcastic comment on Facebook which could result in ten years in prison.

    This is a real civil liberties case.


    I would say "sarcastic" (none / 0) (#8)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 04:36:22 PM EST
    is a poor word choice.

    Huh?!? (none / 0) (#11)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 05:06:39 PM EST

    It's the word choice commonly used in relation to this story.

    Anyway, a kid is facing 10 years in prison for exercising his first amendment rights, and a word I used is what you're worried about?  Sheesh.


    Sarcastic has been the common word (none / 0) (#12)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 05:18:33 PM EST
    because it's the word that was used by his lawyer.

    As for Justin Carter:

    "I think Ima shoot up a kindergarten / And watch the blood of the innocent rain down/ And eat the beating heart of one of them."

    It's likely less a civil liberties case and more a mental health case.


    Nope ... (none / 0) (#18)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 05:44:04 PM EST
    the kid has no history of mental illness.

    This just another Minority Report-like overreach by the state.


    No history of mental illness (none / 0) (#20)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 05:56:12 PM EST
    Doesn't mean he doesn't have mental health issues.

    As I said a couple weeks back, if, after posting that, he walked into a school and started shooting, all anyone would be saying now is, how is it no one saw the signs. They were right there staring at us.


    No one should ever face prison... (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by kdog on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 08:23:42 PM EST
    for showing arbitrary "signs".  Most people who talk sh*t on the internet are just talking sh*t on the internet.

    Mental health issues are not criminal either...I for one don't wanna go back to the days of over-crowded barbaric insane asylums, as tragic and scary as mass shootings are the old days of locking up crazy people who "might" do something crazy are more tragic and scary.  Freedom isn't free, the cost is risk.


    Ditto, kdog (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Dexter on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 09:37:17 PM EST
    although I personally know of at least one institution that still puts people in shackles and rubber rooms and performs repeated shock therapy treatments if the patient agrees.  Not everyone has family or friends.  Patient advocacy is yet one of a million priceless volunteer avenues.

    Also, I'm old enough to remember when bleach/coat hanger type abortions were a woman's only choice.  

    I sure hope we're not back to the past, but it looks like it to me most days lately.


    I didn't say he should go to prison (none / 0) (#46)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 09:00:48 PM EST
    What they found when they executed the search warrant that led to the arrest and the half million dollar bail I don't know.

    Talking sh*t on the Internet can get you investigated though. And that's what they did. After searching the house he was charged with making a terroristic threat. He'll have his chance to explain.


    I don't know either... (none / 0) (#47)
    by kdog on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 09:11:35 PM EST
    Don't you find it chilling?  Considering how much sh*t we talk on the internet?  Well, how much sh*t I talk anyway, you're a more reasonable man, like Brooksie.  They'll come for you last;)  

    Chilling? (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:30:54 AM EST
    I find it chilling that people walk into schools and shoot teachers and children. I don't find it chilling that we would investigate someone that said he was going to kill a kindergarten class.

    Fair enough... (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:45:05 AM EST
    I find it more chilling that the state can cage you for 5 months without trial for saying something stupid on the internet and being too poor to afford bail.  Much bigger picture than the extremely rare occurence (granted not as rare as it should be or used to be) murderous whackjob shooting up a school.

    The only charge is making terrorist threats, afaik...I think if they actually had something on the kid besides youthful stupidity there would be more charges.  I think this prosecution is madness...pure madness.


    Congrats on the Matt Harvey start (none / 0) (#65)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 09:20:07 AM EST
    Tough call between Harvey and Kershaw. Works out well though. New York can see Harvey before they go to sleep and LA can be home from work before Kershaw takes the mound.

    Wasn't thrilled... (none / 0) (#66)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 09:32:21 AM EST
    the Mutts pulled him from his scheduled Saturday start against the first place Bucs when we are conceivably (if not at all likely) still in the hunt to get back in the hunt, and playing much better ball of late, just for the possibility of an exhibition All-Star game start. But it's cool for the fans none the less, and an honor well-deserved by the phenom.  Harvey is a joy to watch.

    The pitching is shaping up real good for the future...but nary a bat to be found on the farm, and not nearly enough on the big club!  I hope Alderson doesn't deal away the wrong arm in search of a bat.    


    That's a police state .... (none / 0) (#21)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:02:11 PM EST

    And you're welcome to it.  

    But it has nothing to do with the rights of American citizens under the Constitution.


    Maybe you should wait (none / 0) (#23)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:23:42 PM EST
    to see what was found when they executed the search warrant that led to the bail being that big.

    Since his father said he was suicidal, I'd say he definitely needs help.


    ^This ... (none / 0) (#27)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:41:23 PM EST
    especially the last comment suggest you're just trolling.

    So enjoy your evening.  I'm done talking with you for the day.


    Petraeus has negotiated a new (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:32:16 PM EST
    salary with CUNY.

    City University of New York confirmed that former CIA director David Petraeus's new salary for his visiting professorship would be rolled back to $1 after both the university and Petraeus received backlash for his originally reported salary of $200,000, the New York Times reported Monday.

    "The general never was taking on this teaching assignment for the money," Robert Barnett, Petraeus' attorney, told the New York Times. "Once controversy arose about the amount he was being paid, he decided it was much more important to keep the focus on the students, on the school and on the teaching, and not have it be about the money," LINK

    Good for him. Should take the pressure off the school and eliminate this as a bone of contention the next time their state funding is addressed.

    Well played General... (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by kdog on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 09:14:06 PM EST
    a little public shaming goes a long way...we didn't even have to pass a celebrity professor salary cap law or nuthin'.  Mikey likes it!

    CUNY faculty found that (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Towanda on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 09:29:45 PM EST
    his teaching will entail a couple of lectures, so he'll be getting paid fifty cents per.

    The rest of the work is to be done by teaching assistants.  They get about fifty cents per hour.


    Hello all (5.00 / 9) (#28)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:56:07 PM EST
    Just a quick pop in to say hello and that I plan to return to Talk Left in about 2 weeks.

    I won't be discussing a certain trial at all here.

    I'll not that I have significant divergence with Jeralyn about "what it all means" but I will not be pursuing that line of discussion here.

    See you soon.

    Good news. (5.00 / 4) (#29)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:58:26 PM EST
    Or bad news (5.00 / 5) (#33)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 07:07:43 PM EST
    depending on what folks prefer.

    I'm not sure the newish crowd at TL will much appreciate what I have to say.


    You might prefer that. (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 08:09:03 PM EST
    BTW, will you be sharing your impressions of Cuba here?  Hope so. (Always a controversial topic.)

    I'm not sure... (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by kdog on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 08:14:43 PM EST
    the newish crowd will appreciate what Jeralyn has to say about other broader topics.

    Strange bedfellows, strange days!


    Not to worry (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by sj on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 01:58:21 AM EST
    The oldish crowd at TL will very much appreciate what you have to say.

    If Only... (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:57:04 AM EST
    ... a BTD post or two would drive them them all away...

    I look forward to some new material around this joint.


    Newish, shmewish, (none / 0) (#49)
    by desertswine on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 09:22:06 PM EST
    Welcome home, Sir.

    Bring it on! You are missed! (none / 0) (#54)
    by ruffian on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 10:05:40 PM EST
    We were (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 07:00:43 PM EST
    just talking about you today and hoping that you would come back! I stayed away from that certain subject until today so you probably did the right thing there.

    I purposely avoided TL (5.00 / 6) (#31)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 07:06:21 PM EST
    during the Zim trial our of respect to Jeralyn.

    I completely disagree with her big picture thoughts about the case.

    FWIW, I think the verdict was correct but that does not mean justice was served imo.

    If interested, I may write about it on Sunday at Daily Kos.


    It will be good to have you back, BTD. (none / 0) (#41)
    by caseyOR on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 08:36:46 PM EST
    And not just for football.  :-)

    Okay. (none / 0) (#42)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 08:47:05 PM EST
    Thanks for letting me know. I may wander over there on Sunday to read what you have to say on the subject.

    There's more than one... (none / 0) (#45)
    by kdog on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 08:54:01 PM EST
    realm of justice my friend...Victor Cruz tweeted something about it, then Coughlin told him to delete;)

    Please do (none / 0) (#53)
    by vicndabx on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 09:45:40 PM EST
    write about it Sunday at Daily Kos

    Welcome back (none / 0) (#60)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:28:35 AM EST
    FWIW, I think the verdict was correct but that does not mean justice was served imo.

    I think that many people actually think this.


    Will be happy to see you back (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by shoephone on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 07:06:23 PM EST
    Hope you will post your opinion (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 09:42:53 PM EST
    pieces here as well as your "investment" strategies.

    Good to hear from you, BTD. (none / 0) (#58)
    by Anne on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 06:35:38 AM EST
    you've been missed.  A lot going on besides the trial, so looking forward to some focused discussions.

    Capitalist Pigs! (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 07:33:26 PM EST
    I saw these adorable toys called FurReal pets.  I bought what I thought the two cutest were for my granddaughters.  I paid $15 each for a piglet and a baby panda.  They left the piglet at a hotel yesterday.  Amazon wants $40 to make the pain go away.  The baby panda is just as painful for someone to replace if they lose it.

    And we are on the 2nd episode of (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 08:05:06 PM EST
    Orange is the new Black on Netflix.  Crazy addictive already.  My husband said it was based on a true story.  I said impossible, but no, it is really based on a poor woman Pippa's incarceration experience.

    Yesterday I spoke with my dad in Colorado Springs.  He claims that the legalization of marijuana emptied out the jails to the point that one of the men's facilities in the Springs has been converted to a women's facility now so the women are not so overcrowded.  It was either that or shut it down.

    Is there a greater sign... (5.00 / 3) (#43)
    by kdog on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 08:50:20 PM EST
    of progress than empty prisons?  I'm hard pressed to think of one...that's some good evolution going down  in CO.

    In more ways than one...one of my connects got a shipment in from the fine CO growers...f*ckin' phenomenal, my sweet lord!  If I was buying instead of mooching and saving for the special lady's visit, I woulda cleaned him the f*ck out.  I just hope there is some left when I'm off austerity & hermitude measures...4 mo' days and I've got 3 paychecks in my pocket to f*ck with, with the month's nut and 8 shows already paid for, and the most beautiful woman on my arm!  Yip yeah b*tches, home stretch! ;)    


    Other new TV..... (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by ruffian on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 10:11:38 PM EST
    'the Bridge' on AMC, Wednesday nights. Police drama about the El Paso - Juarez border. The pilot was really good.

    Sorry, inmate, author, and character is Piper (none / 0) (#37)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 08:07:18 PM EST
    Not Pippa

    Sergio Mendes at the Hollywood Bowl (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Dadler on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 10:34:01 AM EST
    Wednesday night. Any Los Angeles TalkLefters, this is an artistic alert to you, check this show out. My brother-in-law, Scott Mayo, will be blowing sax and flute for the legendary Mr. Mendes. With Herb Alpert opening, I believe. Check. Them. Out.

    Anatidaephobia (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 11:21:31 AM EST
    I saw this phobia somewhere and did a little research.  According to Wiki:
    Anatidaephobia - the fictional fear that somewhere, somehow, a duck is watching you. From Gary Larson's The Far Side

    Whew, I was thinking that there were people somewhere who actually feared a duck was watching them.

    That being said, people are scared of some really crazy stuff, these are legitimate phobias:

    Chaetophobia - fear of hair
    Chronophobia - fear of time and time moving forward
    Hypnophobia or somniphobia - fear of sleep
    Ichthyophobia - fear of fish, including fear of eating fish, or fear of dead fish
    Pediophobia - fear of dolls

    And the funny ones:

    Gamophobia - fear of marriage, commitment
    Gynophobia - fear of women (the name is funny)
    Nomophobia - fear of being out of mobile phone contact
    Omphalophobia - fear of bellybuttons
    Papaphobia - fear of the Pope
    Phobophobia - fear of having a phobia or of fear
    Tetraphobia - fear of the number 4

    No point, HERE is the link.

    Funny (none / 0) (#70)
    by shoephone on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 11:41:00 AM EST
    So, basically, FDR said we all had phobophobia.

    And, please, what is fear of Venetian Blinds called?


    speaking of FDR (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by jondee on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 11:47:08 AM EST
    what's fear of crossing the NRA called?

    How About the Irrational Fear... (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 03:01:47 PM EST
    ...of not being able to stroke your gun every night.

    Or the irrational fear that the liberals are going to take all of your guns.


    The more I think about it, a certain political party seems to have a lot of irrational fears...


    Yeah, but FDR said it much better. (none / 0) (#72)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 01:51:00 PM EST
    Somehow, I don't think that "The only thing we have to fear is phobophobia!" has quite the same eloquent resonance to it.



    Bill Kristol Says... (5.00 / 4) (#75)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 03:23:24 PM EST
    ...Sen. Gillibrand's proposal to undermine the military's chain of command on behalf of the pseudo-crisis of military sexual assault.


    Here's some stats on the pseudo-crisis:

    The Department of Veterans Affairs says 1.2 percent (55,491) of male veterans and an astonishing 23.6 percent (72,497 total) of female veterans whom the department screened in 2012 reported a history of Military Sexual Trauma (MST), the department's mitigating jargon for "sexual assault or repeated, threatening sexual harassment experienced during military service."

    What an ahole.

    Bill Kristol (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by Zorba on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 07:13:03 PM EST
    is definitely an a**hole.  I wonder how he would feel if he had daughters or grand-daughters or nieces in the military who had experienced sexual assault.  

    Blowhard elitists (5.00 / 4) (#94)
    by Peter G on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:46:03 PM EST
    don't have family members who join the military.  Not in America.

    Yeh. (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Zorba on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:51:24 PM EST
    Ain't it the truth?

    This seems like it should be a no-brainer (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 04:26:11 PM EST
    Native American tribes' lawsuit could decide who controls Senate in 2015

    A group of 16 Native Americans, nine of whom are military veterans, is waging a protracted legal battle against Montana's Democratic secretary of State and county administrators, arguing for improved access to voter registration sites


    The three Montana counties now being sued have historically lost Section 2 Voting Rights Act cases. However, for the state's overwhelmingly poor and geographically isolated Native Americans -- who vote predominantly for Democrats -- the Montana fight is deeply personal. Tribal leaders say it is an issue of fundamental fairness.

    An estimated 50,000 Native Americans are eligible to vote in Montana. Many of them live on reservations throughout the sprawling 550-mile-wide state, which means driving more than 100 miles for some to reach polling sites established long before Native Americans got the right to vote.

    It's the distance equivalent of voters in Washington, D.C., having to drive to Gettysburg, Pa. and back to complete their late registration forms or cast early in-person absentee ballots.

    If the state allowed more voting stations, known as satellite offices, on reservations, more Native Americans would have the ability to vote by a factor of 250 percent, a group supporting the lawsuit argues.


    Montana Secretary of State Linda McCulloch (D) says she supports the Native Americans' demands, but that the lawsuit is misdirected.

    At a video-recorded meeting with the tribes earlier this year, tensions between the two sides were palpable as they failed to negotiate a compromise after a nearly hour-long discussion.

    "I care that the people at this table have equal access, and what is in my power as secretary of State to do, I can do," said McCulloch. "What I do not have the authority over is establishing county clerk offices. That authority belongs to the county governing body, the county commissioners.

    "We will support and assist any county whose governing body has made a decision to open a second county clerk election office that can offer services such as registering voters and issuing absentee ballots. You have my unwavering commitment to that."

    Indefinite detention for (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 04:51:59 PM EST
    Oddly (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 06:25:34 PM EST
    I just found out that Ted Cruz was born in Canada. I guess that makes him ineligible to run for President? Oh, wouldn't that be rich that a tea party darling like Cruz is actually an immigrant.

    Only by the Tea Party Constitution (none / 0) (#86)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 06:35:01 PM EST
    His mother was a US citizen at the time pretty much making him completely eligible.

    Wouldn't (none / 0) (#87)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 06:49:17 PM EST
    it be hysterical though if he was the nominee for the GOP and he was born in Canada. I think their heads would explode with that little factoid. I read his father is actually an immigrant and was born in Cuba. That would look hysterical to hear him talk about immigrants when his own father was one.

    Speaking of crazy Ken... (none / 0) (#98)
    by jbindc on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 06:37:21 AM EST
    A poll (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 06:59:39 AM EST
    just came out stating that something like 55% of Virginians support marriage equality. This nut seems to be taking the standard line that all gay people are pedophiles. It looks like sheer desperation to me.

    And (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by jbindc on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 07:30:17 AM EST
    think how crazy his running mate (E.W. Jackson) must be when crazy Ken tries to distance himself!

    Oh, brother. (none / 0) (#101)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 07:36:23 AM EST
    Two wackos running for statewide office in VA. Well, at least it will provide some comic relief when it comes to elections.

    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 70 (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Dadler on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 12:12:57 PM EST
    And the Taliban is still... (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by shoephone on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 12:15:00 PM EST
    It's Stuff Like That... (none / 0) (#119)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 01:48:07 PM EST
    ...that really makes me appreciate America and reminds me of how good we really do have it, despite the current political mess.

    Nate Silver (none / 0) (#1)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 03:51:56 PM EST
    on Brian Schweitzer's decision not to run for Senate:

    A race-by-race analysis of the Senate, in fact, suggests that Republicans might now be close to even-money to win control of the chamber after next year's elections. Our best guess, after assigning probabilities of the likelihood of a G.O.P. pickup in each state, is that Republicans will end up with somewhere between 50 and 51 Senate seats after 2014, putting them right on the threshold of a majority.

    I don't understand this assumption by ... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 05:34:38 PM EST
    ... Nate Silver, Politico, WSJ, etc., that Montana voters will vote for the Republican U.S. Senate candidate by default, because the electoral results in Montana over the last decade don't support that contention.

    Is this an east coast media thing, whereby the so-called conventional wisdom about Montana is formulated in large part by talking to other east coast-based pundits about Montana? Or is it the innate desire of Beltway political establishmentarians to play kingmaker, thereby substituting their own judgment for the collective wisdom of local Dems -- and local Repubs, for that matter -- in choosing their own nominees?

    Again, the Montana Democrats are the party in power in state politics, and they control bold houses of the legislature. They have a deep bench, and are more than just the party of Gov. Brian Schweitzer. There are several attractive and formidable Democrats who could declare for this race now that the governor has stood down -- including Stephanie Schriock, who's currently the president of Emily's List.



    OT but (none / 0) (#16)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 05:41:08 PM EST
    I see where your legacy post was deleted. Personally, I thought it was a very good comment on your part.

    Thank you. (none / 0) (#76)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 03:36:59 PM EST
    My own attention has been directed locally toward the ongoing trial of Christopher Deedy, a 29-year-old U.S. State Dept. diplomatic security agent who's been charged with 2nd degree murder in the shooting death of Kollin Elderts, a 23-year-old Hawaiian man who was also a high school classmate and casual friend of my elder daughter. (I never knew or met him.)

    The defendant had been sent to Honolulu as part of the State Dept.'s advance security team for the APEC summit, which took place the following week. City prosecutors haven't been at all shy about broaching the theory that Deedy was motivated by racism -- as well as fueled by alcohol -- during the fatal confrontation in a Waikiki McDonald's restaurant in Nov. 2011.

    (For the record, there were 14 homicides in total on Oahu during all of 2011, and of that number, only one was caused by firearm -- this case.)

    The defendant initially claimed that he shot the deceased while in the performance of his duties, since withdrawn in favor of the present self-defense argument. The 9th Circuit Court on July 8 denied the defense's motion to transfer the case to federal court (and then, presumably, out of Hawaii), which allowed the present trial to go forward in State circuit court, two blocks from my office.

    Complicating matters somewhat for the defense, the fatal confrontation was captured on the store's surveillance video, and further witnessed in all or in part by a not-insignificant number of McDonald's patrons and crewmembers. Defense counsel Brook Hart, who's arguably the best in the business here in the islands, looks to have an uphill battle on his hands.

    I'm half afraid that the crackpots at Fox News will somehow now turn their attention to this trial and fan its flames into the second coming of the Massie Affair. The white-wing blogosphere is already trying its best to do so, but frankly, if those angry white people really feel that way about the indigenous island people, maybe they're right -- and they shouldn't vacation out here.



    Some thoughts (none / 0) (#19)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 05:46:28 PM EST
    The likeliest Republican candidate appears to be Rep. Steve Daines, first elected last year. Daines was making noise about running even before Schweitzer made his decision, and some prominent Republicans, including a key figure in the National Republican Senatorial Committee (Sen. Rob Portman of Ohio), are raising money for him. One never knows about Republican primaries these days, but Daines could potentially have a relatively clear shot at the nomination if he wanted it. One of the current candidates for the seat, state Rep. Champ Edmunds (R), has already said he would defer to Daines if he entered the race (Edmunds would run for Daines' House seat instead).

    The potential Democratic field could very well produce a female nominee: possibilities include state Superintendent of Public Instruction Denise Juneau (who is thought to be the first Native American woman ever elected to a statewide position), state Auditor Monica Lindeen and Stephanie Schriock, president of EMILY's List, a national group that supports pro-abortion rights women in races for office. Schriock, in particular, would seem to aid Republican attempts to nationalize the race. A number of other Democrats are possibilities; the party seems to have a decent bench here, so let's not just automatically award the race to the Republicans yet. Particularly if Daines runs, comparisons to last year's Republican failure in North Dakota are impossible to avoid. Daines, like the 2012 North Dakota Republican nominee Rick Berg, is a freshman representative who lost to a strong female Democrat (now-Sen. Heidi Heitkamp). Could Juneau, Lindeen, Schriock or someone else be the next Heitkamp? It's certainly possible, although it's also plausible that one or more of these Democrats might conclude a run for an open House seat is preferable to running against the current at-large representative, Daines, for the Senate seat.


    Or this:

    "Democrats and Republicans agree on Schweitzer: There was a treasure trove of opposition research. It's highly unlikely that his candidacy would have been successful," said a Democratic source who asked for anonymity in order to speak more candidly. "Now we have a list of prospects, and while there's no question that they begin as underdogs in a red state, Democrats are better off with a candidate that can win rather than a candidate that would self-combust before the 2014 elections."

    But Schweitzer had statewide name recognition that no other Democrat may be able to match, said Nathan Gonzales, political editor of the non-partisan Rothenberg Political Report.

    "Republicans have a narrow path to the Senate majority in 2014, but it got a little wider when Schweitzer decided not to run," Gonzales said. "We still don't know who the candidates will be, but Schweitzer was a proven vote-getter with nearly universal name identification. No Democrat will start from the same place he would have. Democrats can win in Republican-leaning states, but it takes someone with proven independence from the national party. We'll see if Democrats can find that candidate."

    I'm sure (none / 0) (#2)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 04:08:43 PM EST
    he's right the way things look now but all this depends on if we get more crazy candidates.

    Well (none / 0) (#3)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 04:11:21 PM EST
    You could be right, but as he says:

    But Montana along with West Virginia and South Dakota -- two other red states where an incumbent Democrat has retired and where the Democrats have not identified a strong candidate to replace them - gives Republicans a running start. Republicans could then win three more seats from among red states like Louisiana and Arkansas, where vulnerable Democratic incumbents are on the ballot, or they could take aim at two purple states, Iowa and Michigan, where Democrats have retired. More opportunities could also come into play if the national environment becomes more favorable to Republicans (such as because of a further slide in Mr. Obama's approval ratings). Meanwhile, while Kentucky and Georgia are possibly vulnerable, Republicans have few seats of their own to defend; unlike in 2012, they can focus almost entirely on playing offense.

    Not as (none / 0) (#5)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 04:17:20 PM EST
    sure as he is about WV. This was supposed to happen before there and did not. WV also does not seem to be as deep red as a lot of the other states. But for the last 10 years or so midterms have favored the GOP.

    I don't know who is running on the D side here in GA but there is a possibility of a pickup albeit very slight I'm sure simply because there is a holy war going on in the GOP here in GA right now. It's the Atlanta business community and the moderates vs. the evangelicals. The holy war may or may not play out in the primaries but it's going to get very nasty if there is a runoff and that's looking likely right now.


    I can't imagine (none / 0) (#7)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 04:27:10 PM EST
    WV doing anything BUT electing a Republican at this stage. They never liked Obama (I mean, a prison inmate got 40% of the primary vote over him last year), but his recent comments about coal (whether or not they have been taken out of context), will be pretty hard to overcome.  At least - the ads will write themselves. And while Obama isn't on the ballot, his popularity will have a lot to do with who is voting and why.

    It's a long time until next year, but I just don't see WV being kept in the D column.


    West Virginians have (none / 0) (#10)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 04:54:23 PM EST
    never liked Obama. They did not like him in 2008 and they did not like him in 2012 and I'm sure that they still do not like him but Joe Machin was supposed to lose his senate seat because of it but did not. So it all depends once again on who the candidate is.

    Joe Manchin (none / 0) (#13)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 05:22:51 PM EST
    Was leading in the polls by an average of 30 points for at least 9 months before election day.  I'm not sure why you would say he wasn't expected to win.

    West Virginians liked Manchin, despite not liking Obama.


    I only (none / 0) (#14)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 05:33:37 PM EST
    watched the polls closer to the election and IIRC they were close or showing the GOP winning his seat.  And your last sentence is kind of my point. It all depends on the candidate. If the tea party nuts get more candidates running for things like the senate, the GOP is actually going to lose again. I thought for sure Claire McCaskill was a goner and IN was going to have a GOP senator. You were saying that the GOP was going to pick up the senate back in 2012 and I thought it was a possibility or even likely too. That being said with the tea party picking candidates you never can be too sure. And remember all the predictions of Harry Reid losing his seat---even the polls were saying he was going to lose and it looked that way until Sharon Angle showed up on the scene and handed Harry a victory.

    Not sure what polls you were looking at (none / 0) (#22)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:06:48 PM EST
    Well (none / 0) (#25)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:26:46 PM EST
    I must have him confused with someone else then. Sorry about that. But look at Harry Reid. He was going to lose until Sharon Angle came along and then there are the other examples I stated above.

    WV economy: coal, yes, and the military (none / 0) (#35)
    by Towanda on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 07:44:22 PM EST
    as the way that many get to leave home and not have to work in the mines, according to family there -- but many of the veterans come back home.  (Data I saw on state-by-state service support this; WV is above the norm in numbers in the recent wars.)

    So, the end of the wars and the cuts to the military might affect WV elections in future, even more than in 2008 and since?


    Everybody (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 08:50:34 PM EST
    is mad about the cuts but since the GOP won't get rid of the Bush tax cuts and then Obama caved when he had the chance to undo them, here we are.

    You mean they don't have control now? (none / 0) (#55)
    by ruffian on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 10:08:01 PM EST
    Could have fooled me.

    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 68 (none / 0) (#4)
    by Dadler on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 04:13:09 PM EST
    Oops (none / 0) (#9)
    by Dexter on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 04:36:23 PM EST
    Thanks for the reminder, Jeralyn.  I just donated.  I'm sorry it couldn't be more, but it will buy you a chocolate martini in Aspen and probably two in Denver.  Salute!


    Self Defense? (none / 0) (#17)
    by Rashomon66 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 05:42:27 PM EST
    Has anyone here considered that Trayvon Martin might have been also defending himself? I mean, being followed by a strange guy with a gun might lead some to attack the person following them - in self defense. And since we don't know exactly what was said before the fight and subsequent shooting then we don't know the motivations that led to the fight.

    I have to add that to not think this incident had a racial motivation strikes me as odd. Forget the media circus and just think about Zimmerman's initial actions. It seems highly unlikely Zimmerman would have taken as suspicious a view of a white kid in the same area.

    None of this may have led to any different cirumstances in the case. But I will agree the whole neighborhood watch system needs to be reconsidered.

    Perhaps you did not see (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Zorba on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:26:09 PM EST
    Jeralyn's request in her introduction to this thread:

    Here's an open thread for all topics except George Zimmerman. Please use a Zimmerman thread to comment on his case.

    Yeah, what Zorba said. (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 01:53:54 PM EST
    Leave us alone! Will you not allow us this one small place of refuge from the maelstrom?



    Tuesday Morning Snowden Stuff (none / 0) (#59)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:23:46 AM EST
    It's being reported by one of his lawyers that he applied for temporary asylum in Russia today. No word from Russia thus far.

    What does the application mean?

    He could be moved from the airport to temporary refugee accommodations or he could be left in the transit hotel while the application is considered. If approved he could stay in Russia for 12 months with another potential 12 month renewal period.

    Legal timeline for Russia to consider the application? There is no timeline. Legally they never have to give an answer.

    Obama is expected to travel to Russia and be in Moscow September 3-4 and in St Petersburg September 5-6. Chances of something good happening by Snowden standards prior to September 7 are probably fairly low.

    CraZy As$ LinDsey GraHam... (5.00 / 3) (#104)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 09:13:58 AM EST
    ...is wanting to boycott the 2014 winter Olympics in Russia if they grant Snowden asylum.  LINK

    There is something seriously wrong with that guy, like medically.  

    "If you could go back in time, would you have allowed Adolf Hitler to host the Olympics in Germany? To have the propaganda coup of inviting the world into Nazi Germany and putting on a false front?" Graham said of the Games.

    "I'm not saying that Russia is Nazi Germany," Graham added, "but I am saying that the Russian government is empowering some of the most evil, hateful people in the world."


    Good thing he's not saying what he just said.


    A Divided GOP ? (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 04:09:04 PM EST
    House Speaker John Boehner called Graham's suggestion "dead wrong," adding, "Why would we want to punish U.S. athletes who have been training for three years to compete in the Olympics over a traitor who can't find a place to call home?"

    Oddly enough I could not agree with Boehner more, well except for the traitor bit.


    So he wants us to (none / 0) (#121)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 02:36:44 PM EST
    boycott the Olympics in Russia if they grant Snowden asylum, but I don't recall Lindsey calling for a boycott of said Olympics because of Russia's reprehensible, recently enacted, anti-gay law.
    Where's the outrage there, Lindsey?

    Well The Good News (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 03:37:51 PM EST
    Queen Elizabeth II gave her royal approval to Britain's same-sex marriage bill on Wednesday.

    Wonder of any of the gay haters realize they are in lock-step with Russian and nearly all Middle Eastern policies.


    Well, at least (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 03:50:37 PM EST
    the Brits didn't take to rioting in the streets in protest against the same-sex marriage bill, the way some in France did.  Good for the Brits.
    Maybe Britain's former colony will some day follow her lead and also legalize same-sex marriage across the whole of this country.  I'm not holding my breath, but I can hope, anyway, that it happens sooner, rather than later.

    If find it (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 05:20:42 PM EST
    highly ironic that the GOP considers everybody from the Middle East to be a terrorist and talks about how repressive their governments are yet on social policy the GOP and Middle Easterners and Russians could be twins.

    Less Than 3 Months (none / 0) (#80)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 04:58:29 PM EST
    Russia's Interfax news agency quoted Mr Kucherena as saying he had asked Mr Snowden whether he would observe a request from President Vladimir Putin to not harm US interests if he is able to leave the airport.

    "He replied: 'I will observe this condition'," Mr Kucherena told the agency.

    Officials said Mr Snowden might be moved to an airport facility for accommodating refugees while his application was being processed, which should take no more than three months.

    Less than 3 months (none / 0) (#81)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 05:23:27 PM EST
    if they act on it.

    There is no legal obligation to even read the application which is why it could also take forever. As I said, expect nothing before Sept 7.


    DId YOu Read Link? (none / 0) (#82)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 05:37:44 PM EST
    The Federal Migration Service confirmed he had completed the relevant paperwork at Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport, where he has been for the past three weeks....

    Mr Kucherena said the fugitive had stated in the application that he faced possible torture and execution if he returned to the US.

    Looks like they acknowledged that they received the application and read it.

    My guess is that this is going to happen.. and in less than 3 months.


    I did (none / 0) (#83)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 05:54:54 PM EST
    and as I stated, there is no legal obligation to ever rule on his request. If anything happens before Sept 8 I'll admit I was wrong. Until then I expect he'll stay in the hotel room where Russia can maintain total control.

    Are you ready yet, CG, to talk about (none / 0) (#88)
    by christinep on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 07:07:50 PM EST
    potential trades or other such options that we may be moving toward?

    Ha (none / 0) (#91)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 07:16:34 PM EST
    well you know it's on the table and why nothing will likely happen until after Obama and Putin meet.
    It's also why Langley/JFK remains high on the possible landing places.

    But I have no insight or hints other than seeing the name of Victor Bout dropped.


    Yes, I see (none / 0) (#96)
    by christinep on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 10:52:05 PM EST
    Excuse me for being so slow about the Langley reference:)

    Within A Week (none / 0) (#113)
    by squeaky on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 10:48:49 AM EST
    On Wednesday Anatoly Kucherena, a lawyer with strong links to the Kremlin who helped Mr Snowden with the paperwork for his asylum application, said he expected Mr Snowden would be able to leave the transit zone in Sheremetyevo "within days".

    Mr Kucherena said he expected a decision to be made on the application within a week.



    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 69 (none / 0) (#63)
    by Dadler on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:56:48 AM EST
    PBS (none / 0) (#69)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 11:34:32 AM EST
    New Programing...

    Long Island Landscapers

    Meet The Tanners

    Clam Kings

    Will it work ?  
    I hope so.

    Liz Cheney (none / 0) (#79)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 04:54:21 PM EST
    Will take on three-term Republican incumbent Sen. Mike Enzi in the Wyoming Senate race.


    The National Republican Senatorial Committee, however, says it stands firmly behind Enzi, the GOP incumbent.

    "Our mission is to re-elect our incumbents and build a Republican majority," NRSC Communications Director Brad Dayspring told CNN.

    That will be interesting (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 06:24:22 PM EST
    to see how it plays out. Liz Cheney should be nowhere near the senate. Looks the war in the GOP is going on in more places than just in GA.

    Isn't it something (none / 0) (#89)
    by christinep on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 07:12:29 PM EST
    And funny (from my perspective, of course) how the GOP can figure out how to make trouble for themselves...even in Wyoming.  Sitting in Denver--and with a Wyo cousin nearby & with whom I'll visit tomorrow--this should be fascinating to watch.  Indeed.

    'Haven't checked (so I really don't know)... but what is Freudenthal doing these days?

    And, here I thought that Virginia would be interesting in general?


    VA is only (none / 0) (#93)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:33:58 PM EST
    going to be interesting IMO due to the fact that Krazy Ken is running. Where does the GOP get these fossilized wackos?

    All Star Game (none / 0) (#92)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 07:18:16 PM EST
    kdog, that was the perfect ceremonial first pitch choice even though the Mets lost me as a fan the day they traded Tom Terrific.

    The Midnight Massacre... (none / 0) (#97)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 05:29:56 AM EST
    The worst trade in Mets history, and we've had some doozies!  Nolan Ryan for Jim Fregosi anyone?

    I missed the ceremonial first pitch, but got home from softball in time to watch The New Franchise pitch outta that first inning jam.  Harvey's a gamer baby!

    Lots of great pitching on display last night...that's my kinda baseball.  Nothing more exciting in baseball than watching a masterful pitcher work imo.  

    I'll never get used to a DH in a NL park though...like my Tee Ball coach said, "If you wanna hit you gotta play the field."  Simple! The bastardization of a beautiful game, I'll never get over it;)  


    Overall a fun game to watch (none / 0) (#102)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 08:38:51 AM EST
    A few things could have been better.

    Fox likes to use their American Idol winners for the Anthem but Candice Glover should have been given a time limit to finish.

    Neil Diamond doing Sweet Caroline in Boston is great. In New York it came off as a little cheesy.

    The only part of the game that bothered me was the interview with Jason Grilli. He's got a great story but they chose the half inning when Jose Fernandez was pitching and he was the only rookie in the All Star Game last night and an even better story.

    The recognition of Mariano Rivera was awesome, especially by the players all up on the steps clapping and no one taking the field until he was on the mound.

    Marc Anthony did a great job with God Bless America (although I'm not sure why we still sing that at baseball games).

    Rivera getting the MVP didn't really make any sense, but since no one actually stood out at least no one was snubbed.


    Pushing 3 bills... (none / 0) (#103)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 08:49:06 AM EST
    Prince Fielder legging out a triple stood out! ;)

    Very cool tribute to Mariano, even though he plays for The Evil Empire, ya gotta give it up.

    "God Bless America"...more Yankee sh*t;)  7th Inning Stretch at Mets games is normally "Take Me Out To The Ballgame" followed by the Italian classic "Lazy Mary".  Much preferred!


    Yep (none / 0) (#105)
    by jbindc on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 09:26:37 AM EST
    My Tigers went 3 for 6 (more hits than the total NL combined) and scored 2 of the three runs!

    And anytime Prince has to hoof it, is amazing to watch!


    The Harvenator... (none / 0) (#107)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 09:54:04 AM EST
    mowed down Mighty Miguel Cabrera though! ;)

    True, true (none / 0) (#108)
    by jbindc on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 10:27:54 AM EST
    harvey got him good.

    But Miggy still ended up scoring the first run!  :)


    Dude hits baseballs... (none / 0) (#109)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 10:30:40 AM EST
    like I hit the bong.  Best hitter on the planet.

    My favorite moment (none / 0) (#111)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 10:35:07 AM EST
    Marlins newest young stud Jose Fernandez pitching to one time Marlins young stud Miguel Cabrera.

    Good read... (none / 0) (#106)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 09:44:37 AM EST
    about your boy Fernandez and his story on Grantland.  Linkage.

    Thanks (none / 0) (#110)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 10:32:24 AM EST
    Great read.

    He'll probbaly be pitching for the Mutts or the Yankees in 3 years.


    Enjoy... (none / 0) (#112)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 10:38:51 AM EST
    your 2 1/2 remaining years...who knows, maybe the baseball gods will smile on Miami, and that con man owner ya got will sell before then or get indicted for fraud or something.

    JB (none / 0) (#114)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 11:02:08 AM EST
    Packers at Ford Field for Thanksgiving.

    I know there aren't many good QB's in the NFL, but $53M.

    This guy (none / 0) (#117)
    by jbindc on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 01:11:54 PM EST
    says it was a good deal.

    We shall see. Always good if we can beat the Packers (especially as it is such a rare occurrence).  :)

    But I'm hoping these guys can step up too.


    Well... (none / 0) (#118)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 01:46:02 PM EST
    ...from your link:
    Faux John Madden @FauxJohnMadden

    Matthew Stafford's record against teams with a winning record: 1-23. Yep better lock that guy up!

    Honestly, to me he's not worth the money because he doesn't have the team around him to justify that kind of cash.  But then again, if Stafford left, well that would pretty much be the nail.

    More power to him, he's definitely a likeable guy and if he's puts as$es in the stands, everyone wins.  Well except for the actual Lions.

    My favorite relatives live in Michigan and they used to visit on Thanksgiving.  Back when the Pack and the Lions were on more equal ground.  When the division punks were the Bucs.

    I miss that smack talking.  I still get it from two friends who live in Chicago, but it's not the same because I seriously despise the Bears.  The Lions are just like that little brother who's 'this close' to busting out, but never seems to do it.


    Trust me, I know (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by jbindc on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 01:50:56 PM EST
    Lions fans are special though.  About this time every year, we get a sort of amnesia - and we really think it could be a good year.  Oh, no one's crazy enough to have Super Bowl visions, but we think, "Hey, maybe we could make the playoffs / have a decent season / get over .500."

    And pretty much every year, we are smacked down back into reality.  But we can't help but be lured by the call of the Sirens - back, back to Ford Field in our Honolulu Blue and Silver.

    This pretty much says it all - a spoof off of a real campaign to promote business and tourism ("Pure Michigan")

    Lions fans Pure Michigan


    That Was Hilarious (none / 0) (#125)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 03:47:53 PM EST
    "If you're wearing jerseys (none / 0) (#128)
    by jbindc on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 04:13:20 PM EST
    of players who haven't played in 20 years, you might be a Lions' fan."

    I Still See... (none / 0) (#132)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jul 18, 2013 at 10:49:40 AM EST
    ...Warren Moon Oiler jerseys at the Texans games.  You will never go to a Packer game and not see a Favre jersey. Ditto for the Astros and Nolan Ryan in the yellow and orange jerseys.

    The timeline for vintage jerseys seems to depend on how good the team is/was.

    I where my Nitschke jersey for every Packer game complete with my cheesehead and he retired when I was 2.


    The NSA Admits (none / 0) (#122)
    by jbindc on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 02:59:44 PM EST
    It analyzes more people's data than was previously revealed.

    Chris Inglis, the agency's deputy director, was one of several government representatives--including from the FBI and the office of the Director of National Intelligence--testifying before the House Judiciary Committee this morning. Most of the testimony largely echoed previous testimony by the agencies on the topic of the government's surveillance, including a retread of the same offered examples for how the Patriot Act and Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act had stopped terror events.

    But Inglis' statement was new. Analysts look "two or three hops" from terror suspects when evaluating terror activity, Inglis revealed. Previously, the limit of how surveillance was extended had been described as two hops. This meant that if the NSA were following a phone metadata or web trail from a terror suspect, it could also look at the calls from the people that suspect has spoken with--one hop. And then, the calls that second person had also spoken with--two hops. Terror suspect to person two to person three. Two hops. And now: A third hop.

    A whole lot (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 03:10:57 PM EST
    of hopping around being done, it seems.

    ObamaCare will slash premiums in NY (none / 0) (#130)
    by Politalkix on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 05:58:56 PM EST
    So confusing... (none / 0) (#133)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 18, 2013 at 11:04:31 AM EST
    if individual plans are gonna go down 50%, why did my employer group plan in NY just go up?  Shouldn't group plans, in theory at least, go down even more?

    I'll never understand the insurance racket and regulation there of...pre or post the ACA.  Such a shady business, regulated by shady governments.  


    Different pool mix - an explanation (none / 0) (#134)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 18, 2013 at 11:44:08 AM EST
    Because the cost of individual coverage has soared, only 17,000 New Yorkers currently buy insurance on their own. About 2.6 million are uninsured in New York State.

    For years, New York has represented much that can go wrong with insurance markets. The state required insurers to cover everyone regardless of pre-existing conditions, but did not require everyone to purchase insurance -- a feature of the new health care law -- and did not offer generous subsidies so people could afford coverage.

    With no ability to persuade the young and the healthy to buy policies, the state's premiums have long been among the highest in the nation. "If there was any state that the A.C.A. could bring rates down, it was New York," said Timothy Jost, a law professor at Washington and Lee University who closely follows the federal law.

    It Is the Subsidies, Not the Individual Mandate, That Prevents an Insurance Death Spiral

    This happened because the New York's tiny individual insurance market suffered from a quasi-death spiral since the state required guaranteed issue and community ratings but didn't offer subsidies to help people buy insurance. Only the sick bought coverage and premiums grew. Once the market grows beyond this small group of sick people the average will obviously drop.

    Thanks... (none / 0) (#135)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 18, 2013 at 12:02:29 PM EST
    makes as much sense as it's gonna make now...I was just thinking all those new customers should bring group plan rates down too...but it's clear I'll never understand the racket.

    Employer group plans (none / 0) (#136)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 18, 2013 at 12:18:26 PM EST
    normally have premium subsidies, a mix of age groups and a mix of healthy vs unhealthy people. Here is a good look at what the Obama administration wants the market place to do in order to be successful:

    But to the White House, the difference between success and failure is straightforward: They need to entice a sufficient number of young and healthy adults into the new insurance marketplaces that open Oct. 1.

    How many younger people are needed each year to hold down premiums depends on how many people sign up for the marketplaces. If the total this year is 7 million people, then about 2.7 million need to be in the 18-to-35 set.

    This, then, is the crux of Obamacare's challenge: Can the federal government persuade young, healthy people to buy health insurance? link

    Also, employer groups that tend to have older employees often pay somewhat higher premiums in the group market.  


    With all the (none / 0) (#131)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 07:01:29 PM EST
    war on women going on all around the country, I got into a debate with someone today who thinks the GOP really is pro choice and most republicans think like he does. Anyway, this prompted me to look up the exit poll numbers on the senate race in MO last year. What I found is that 73%!!!! of conservatives voted for Akin. Sorry Charlie, the vast majority of Republicans DO NOT think that Roe V. Wade is settled law.