Friday Open Thread

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    Holder will investigate Holder (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Slado on Fri May 24, 2013 at 01:03:20 PM EST
    So Holder signs off on FBI warrant calling Rosen a criminal and now he will investigate on how they might have overdone it.

    I'm relieved.

    Funny sh*t right? (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by kdog on Fri May 24, 2013 at 01:06:24 PM EST
    Imagine if we could conduct our own tax audits if we are accused of unpaid taxes, and/or conduct our own criminal investigations if we are accused of breaking the law.  Must be cool.

    Good precedent... (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by kdog on Fri May 24, 2013 at 01:22:05 PM EST
    set by the Michigan Supreme Court...THC in your system alone does not prove an inability to drive safely, prosecution must prove impairment with, ya know, real evidence of an impairment.

    Something those in the know already know...but it's refreshing to see a court of law acknowledge it.  I wonder if this possibly could open any door in regards to challenging drunk driving laws that only look at BAC as opposed to, ya know, real evidence of an impairment.

    Actually (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by jbindc on Fri May 24, 2013 at 01:43:45 PM EST
    It only applies to medical marijuana patients with a valid card, which was what the original medical marijuana law says.

    From the opinion:

    Under the MMMA, a qualifying registered patient is not subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty for the medical use of marijuana in accordance with the act, provided that the patient possesses an amount of usable marijuana that does not exceed 2.5 ounces. The statutory definition of "medical use" includes internal possession. Therefore, the MMMA shields registered patients from prosecution for the internal possession of marijuana, provided that the patient does not otherwise possess more than 2.5 ounces of usable marijuana. MCL 333.26427(b), however, provides a list of activities that are not protected by the MMMA, which includes driving while under the influence. Engaging in those activities removes a registered patient from the MMMA's protection because the patient is no longer acting in accordance with the MMMA. The MMMA does not define what it means to be "under the influence," but the phrase clearly contemplates something more than having any amount of marijuana in one's system and requires some effect on the person. Thus, the MMMA's protections extend to a registered patient who internally possesses marijuana while operating a vehicle unless the patient is under the influence of marijuana. The immunity from prosecution provided under the MMMA to a registered patient who drives with indications of marijuana in his or her system but is not otherwise under the influence of marijuana inescapably conflicts with MCL 257.625(8), which prohibits a person from driving with any amount of marijuana in her or system. Under the MMMA, all other acts and parts of acts inconsistent with the MMMA do not apply to the medical use of marijuana. Consequently, MCL 257.625(8) does not apply to the medical use of marijuana. The Court of Appeals incorrectly concluded that defendant could be convicted under MCL 257.625(8) without proof that he had acted in violation of the MMMA by operating a motor vehicle while under the influence of marijuana.

    And the Court also suggested that the state legislature institute THC limits, akin to blood alcohol levels.

    So no, you still can't go party on Saturday night and drive after toking up. And if you're speeding or driving too slowly or weaving, they can still nail you on a DUI.


    Legal Pretzel... (none / 0) (#16)
    by kdog on Fri May 24, 2013 at 01:58:19 PM EST
    so medicinal THC is somehow different than recreational THC in the legal world?  In the non-legal world, THC is THC.

    As you well know, I'm not asking for a license to drive impaired for anybody...I'm asking for arbitrary THC (and BAC) limits not to automatically equal impairment, because in the non-legal world they don't.  


    Yes (none / 0) (#19)
    by jbindc on Fri May 24, 2013 at 02:04:16 PM EST
    Because since those with medical marijuna prescriptions have exemptions from the general law that marijuana is illegal, then they are immune from prosecution for having THC in their system.  But again, if they are pulled over for reckless driving AND they have marijuana in their system, they can still be charged with DUI.

    If the prosecution... (none / 0) (#21)
    by kdog on Fri May 24, 2013 at 02:10:58 PM EST
    has evidence of reckless driving other than the THC level. If THC level is the only credible evidence they have, the jury should be instructed to acquit.  Isn't that the ruling?

    If so, like I said, good precedent.


    Yes, as I understand it (none / 0) (#22)
    by jbindc on Fri May 24, 2013 at 02:15:42 PM EST
    For medical marijuana patients only.

    For now... (none / 0) (#23)
    by kdog on Fri May 24, 2013 at 02:19:59 PM EST
    till we wise up on prohibition;)

    I'm on the hopium on BAC, I know, but I have a dream that one day people will be judged by their actions and on the contents of their character, not the contents of their breath/blood/piss.


    Well (none / 0) (#25)
    by jbindc on Fri May 24, 2013 at 02:28:10 PM EST
    In many, many cases, the contents of people's breath/blood/piss impacts their actions and character, so it's kind of hard to divorce the two.

    As the great Bill Cosby said about cocaine (yes, I know we're talking about pot):

    I said to a guy, "Tell me, what is it about cocaine that makes it so wonderful," and he said, "Because it intensifies your personality." I said, "Yes, but what if you're an a$$hole?"

    For sure... (none / 0) (#26)
    by kdog on Fri May 24, 2013 at 02:42:15 PM EST
    but society should only judge and/or punish the reckless actions, I can think of no other laws where the mitigating factor(s) is the crime like DUI laws.

    I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that (none / 0) (#27)
    by jbindc on Fri May 24, 2013 at 02:55:57 PM EST
    That's good... (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Fri May 24, 2013 at 04:00:51 PM EST
    because it makes no sense.  Aggravating factor;)

    Granted many if not most DUI arrests and prosecutions involve reckless driving and/or other crimes, and I suppose it is reasonable to treat intoxicant level in the bloodstream as an aggravating factor in those cases...I could live with that.  I don't think it reasonable for intoxicant levels alone to be grounds for arrest and/or prosecution.  


    But that's the point (none / 0) (#31)
    by jbindc on Fri May 24, 2013 at 04:13:57 PM EST
    The driving while you are intoxicated IS the crime. By defintion, "under the influence" (as opposed to "driving while intoxicated") does not generally require proof of impairment.

    Don't you think there has to be some bright line rule as to what is "under the influence" (such as BAC) precisely because everyone is different?  It would be a nightmare if the police had to figure out "Are you really sober enough to be driving, even though your BAC is .10"? (chances are, no, you are not, even though YOU may feel like you are).  

    Should we do away with other bright line laws?  Let 10 year olds drive cars, get married, sign contracts? Should we allow 5 year olds to vote? Or do you not see a societal good that comes from having a rule, albeit to you, an arbitrary one?


    Absolutely not!! (none / 0) (#43)
    by NYShooter on Fri May 24, 2013 at 10:06:56 PM EST
    5 year olds should never, never be allowed to vote. Only mature 18 year olds should be allowed to vote. If 5 year olds could vote they'd probably never vote for other 5 year olds to be able to buy, and own, real rifles. Unless, of course they were decorated with pretty flowers and cool orange day-glo paint.

    Then it would be all right.


    5 year olds voting (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by jbindc on Sat May 25, 2013 at 07:33:50 AM EST
    Might give us better outcomes.

    The Mi MM driver was 30mph over the limit (none / 0) (#45)
    by Mr Natural on Sat May 25, 2013 at 07:16:22 AM EST
    when he was pulled over.  So much for the old joke about stoners driving 20mph on the freeway.  Was he impaired?  I have no idea.  I don't even know if marijuana induced impairment has been studied; for so many years marijuana has been a nearly forbidden study subject.

    kdog, wherever you are, you probably won't get much traction on your quest for rationalized blood alcohol limits.  People are angry.  Lower limits seem to be the trend.


    We should all feel better (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Slado on Fri May 24, 2013 at 02:07:14 PM EST
    Because while this president pushes the boundaries of freedom through investigating the press and killing American citizens with drones...

    He feels anguish

    I feel better.

    You know... (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by lentinel on Sat May 25, 2013 at 10:56:23 AM EST
    the other day, at the press conference he talked about ending the endless war on terror... and slowing done the drones... trying to close Gitmo (if they aren't all dead by the time he gets around to it) - maybe sending some of what's left of some of them to Yemen...


    This is relatively speaking, progressive in tone.

    And yet, it didn't seem to provoke much animated discussion - if any - here or elsewhere.

    For me, I raised my head ever so slightly, as I always do when a wisp of rhetorically fresh air is emitted from the festering cauldron. But, then, I thought that until I see some action to accompany these few verbal crumbs, I'll figuratively turn the page.

    There is that quote, purportedly by Einstein, that the definition of an idiot is someone who does the same thing over and over and expects a different result. I no longer - since long ago - spend any energy expecting anything progressive from O.

    But getting back to what I said before, nobody, pro or con O, folks who love or don't love O, seems to be particularly excited about what should be an exciting announcement: the end of endless war.


    What a relief when your child becomes employed! (5.00 / 9) (#33)
    by Dr Molly on Fri May 24, 2013 at 05:38:48 PM EST
    College graduation two weeks ago, followed by two interviews, followed by two offers.

    One was a generous offer from a major corporation, but he turned it down for a riskier, creative startup in NYC. Will be working in a Chelsea loft with a bunch of young hipsters on new energy efficiency designs. Lucky duck!

    What great news, Molly! (5.00 / 4) (#35)
    by Anne on Fri May 24, 2013 at 05:48:30 PM EST
    So great to hear this - and there's something even more satisfying about hearing that he didn't choose the big corporation!  

    Relief - joy - pride - you must be feeling it all, and if I had to guess, I bet you haven't stopped smiling since you heard the news!



    Thanks, Anne. (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Dr Molly on Fri May 24, 2013 at 06:00:55 PM EST
    I think either would have been great, but it was his decision. And what 21-year-old doesn't want to live in NYC for awhile? I'm really happy for him. He can settle down and work for a big company when he's 40!

    A Chelsea loft with young hipsters? (5.00 / 4) (#36)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri May 24, 2013 at 05:52:38 PM EST
    Oh, how cliché! ;-D Congratulations and best wishes to your son.

    Elder Daughter has now been home four days, and already has two scheduled interviews next week with American Savings Bank and Hawaiian Airlines. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.



    Thanks, Donald. (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Dr Molly on Fri May 24, 2013 at 06:01:28 PM EST
    Good luck to your daughter.

    Great news (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 25, 2013 at 07:48:25 AM EST
    Not only becoming employed in this environment but having the opportunity to choose between options.



    Thanks Mo! (none / 0) (#61)
    by Dr Molly on Sun May 26, 2013 at 08:16:43 AM EST
    NY Daily News... (none / 0) (#1)
    by kdog on Fri May 24, 2013 at 12:48:58 PM EST
    is on fire with the Weiner headlines...today's installment.

    "Cuomo Spanks Weiner"

    I know it's juvenile, but so is our political system. The stars are aligned for the NYC mayoral race like never before.

    I love that he (none / 0) (#2)
    by Slado on Fri May 24, 2013 at 12:56:30 PM EST
    admitted there are probably more videos and pictures out there.


    Why would you run for mayor knowing this?  


    One word: (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by Dadler on Fri May 24, 2013 at 12:59:36 PM EST

    You just won the internets... (none / 0) (#28)
    by unitron on Fri May 24, 2013 at 03:01:16 PM EST

    Great George Carlin line (none / 0) (#49)
    by ExcitableBoy on Sat May 25, 2013 at 09:53:54 AM EST
    One of my favorites:

    Cockfight? Glad I wasn't there!


    Clinton-connected wife pushing comeback (none / 0) (#6)
    by TycheSD on Fri May 24, 2013 at 12:59:52 PM EST
    For the record... (none / 0) (#8)
    by kdog on Fri May 24, 2013 at 01:04:20 PM EST
    I don't think he should have ever resigned from Congress over the cybersexing nonsense...in politics the scandalous is considered normal business, and a politicians personal business is considered scandalous.

    But yeah, he must be a serious power addict to put himself through this.  I don't buy the "pressure from the Mrs." business, this dude always had his eyes on mayor.


    Well dunno about (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by brodie on Fri May 24, 2013 at 05:14:31 PM EST
    "Power addict".  Could be he just wants to get back into the field he knows best and possibly b/c he also wants to work for the kind of change he ( and I) believe in.  And it's entirely possible his primary motivation is to try to rehab his reputation, with winning the office and governing icing on the cake.

    I just think its a bit too easy to always think of power grabbing when considering why pols do something. Though that's true of far too many of them.

    I wish him good luck.  Plenty of Repubs have gotten second chances in politics. Even the far creepier Dick Nixon, who most people probably suspected was also a crook, got his second and even third chances.


    The issue is that the [politician is making (1.00 / 1) (#56)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat May 25, 2013 at 03:28:34 PM EST
    decisions that effect us personally.

    Given that, then their personal life becomes fair play since it gives us a look into who they are instead of just relying on the promises they make and the lies they tell.

    As for Weanie, I didn't care or get upset over what he did. BUT, the act shows a serious lack of concern and a belief that he can do what he wants with no ill effect.

    That's scary.


    And I have every confidence that you (none / 0) (#58)
    by Zorba on Sat May 25, 2013 at 06:42:04 PM EST
    would agree that the same standard should apply to the married Senator from Louisiana, David Vitter (R.), who got caught up in the D.C. Madam prostitution scandal, and finally admitted to using prostitutes, not just sexting pictures of himself, and who, according to said prostitutes, liked to wear diapers.
    Only, unlike Anthony Weiner, David Vitter did not resign his seat.

    I haven' t the vaguest idea as (none / 0) (#59)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat May 25, 2013 at 07:08:38 PM EST
    to how you get to that from what I wrote.

    But yeah, given that Vitter is a politician I expect him to lie and it is self evident he had no concept that he might get caught taking totally unnecessary risks.

    I think arrogance is also part of the equation. Something The Won seems to have a great deal of.

    We shall see what it costs Him.


    "Diapers?" (none / 0) (#60)
    by MKS on Sat May 25, 2013 at 09:52:20 PM EST
    You really went there....Good for you.....

    I'm with you, kdog (none / 0) (#42)
    by NYShooter on Fri May 24, 2013 at 09:54:01 PM EST
    Why does everything have to be politics, 24/7? We armchair psychologists can only see someone's career choice through the prism of power, fame, adulation, and hypocrisy. Maybe there's a little projection going on. There doesn't seem to be any room on the radar for someone wanting a career in politics just for, well, you know, policy. no, no, there just has to be a sleazy agenda.

    Because some (most) politicians are Cretans, simply means, some are not.

    Me? I wish him good luck. And, compared to what we've had for the past decade, and more, the Billionaire (Bloomberg) and the Billionaire's enabler (Schumer) I'd take Weiner right now


    Why does the thrice-married Newt Gingrich ... (none / 0) (#41)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri May 24, 2013 at 06:10:32 PM EST
    ... deign to lecture the rest of us about what it takes to be a good Catholic? I think it's because he obviously doesn't embarrass easily and believes he can get away with it. No doubt, it's probably the same thing for Anthony Weiner.

    Why does Newt? (none / 0) (#55)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat May 25, 2013 at 03:22:01 PM EST
    Because he is reformed???

    You know, nothing like an ex-drunk to understand the evils of the demon booze!



    "Reformed"? (none / 0) (#57)
    by Yman on Sat May 25, 2013 at 04:22:09 PM EST
    Or just too old and pudgy to keep trying?

    My early money's on ... (none / 0) (#37)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri May 24, 2013 at 05:59:59 PM EST
    ... NY City Council Speaker Christine Quinn. Anthony Weiner's long since proved himself a buffoon.

    Waltham triple murder - victims violent too (none / 0) (#3)
    by TycheSD on Fri May 24, 2013 at 12:58:15 PM EST
    Brendan Mess sounds a lot like Ibragim Todashev.
      http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/05/23/stark-overtones-waltham-triple-homicide/ho0xNuDSCGdQsRNZ I30QHK/story.html?s_campaign=sm_tw

    I still don't know why police zeroed in on Tamerlan and Ibragim.  What does the DNA evidence show?

    Your link is really interesting, (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri May 24, 2013 at 01:46:29 PM EST
    and probably will be deleted due to formatting. So I'll do it for you here.

    Linky directions; super easy and takes mere seconds:

    1. Copy the link
    2. Write something in the comment box
    3. Highlight some word or phrase in the comment box
    4. Click on the "links of a chain" icon above the comment box so that "enter url" box opens up
    5. Paste the link into the "enter url" box
    6. click "ok"
    7. click post

    Okay, thanks (none / 0) (#24)
    by TycheSD on Fri May 24, 2013 at 02:26:14 PM EST
    Still a newbee here.  Don't know all the rules.

    tyche (none / 0) (#44)
    by Jeralyn on Sat May 25, 2013 at 01:51:50 AM EST
    long urls skew the site because we have narrow columns. You need to put urls in html format (use the link button at the top of the comment box.) Or at least get a tinyurl from tinyurl.com. Otherwise I have to delete the comment since I cannot edit comments. Thanks.

    "Conscious vs. Subconscious" vol. 7 (none / 0) (#4)
    by Dadler on Fri May 24, 2013 at 12:58:40 PM EST
    A week or so ago there was some racist (none / 0) (#10)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri May 24, 2013 at 01:09:45 PM EST
    graffiti spray painted at my local HS. In fact the graffiti listed a number of AA students by name, saying they would die. Our local law enforcement and FBI are involved as this falls under their definition of a hate crime.

    My wife and I are pretty involved in our local schools and various community organizations so we know most of the kids on the list and their parents.

    It was a pretty shocking thing to have happen our community, and it really caused a lot of people to look inward and, among other things, many started working on various programs to address racism.

    Then, a few days ago, we found out the perpetrator was one of the boys on "the list."

    Allegedly, he wanted to create a situation where he could transfer to a different school and skirt the California Interscholastic Federation rules regarding athletics eligibility following transfers.

    Dumb damn teenagers. Yup, I guess I'm ageist.

    What was that about sports... (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by unitron on Fri May 24, 2013 at 03:05:50 PM EST
    ...building character?

    Sports participation does build character. (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri May 24, 2013 at 06:01:51 PM EST
    Unfortunately, it also creates them, too.

    I've always liked that other line (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by ExcitableBoy on Sat May 25, 2013 at 10:05:52 AM EST
    "Sports doesn't build character; it reveals it".

    Though I think both are true to some extent, I believe it much more reveals it. My son is very sports-oriented, and I've always been proud of the way he's carried himself and acted, even when he was very young.


    That must have come as... (none / 0) (#12)
    by kdog on Fri May 24, 2013 at 01:28:43 PM EST
    a relief to your community.

    Definitely not cool, but I don't know if I'd call it "dumb"...one could say the kid is smart enough to know how the real world works...gaming the system.  


    Something tells me he'll be lucky if (none / 0) (#14)
    by Anne on Fri May 24, 2013 at 01:44:27 PM EST
    the only fallout from this is that he ends up losing his athletic eligibility anyway - I suspect, though, that that won't be the only repercussion from his actions.

    No, it was definitely dumb, and he's going to be kicking himself for ever thinking it was a good idea.


    Yup. (none / 0) (#17)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri May 24, 2013 at 01:59:41 PM EST
    Dumb to get caught... (none / 0) (#18)
    by kdog on Fri May 24, 2013 at 02:03:57 PM EST
    I'm with you in spirit Anne...in a perfect world it would be dumb any way you look at it.

    But in our world, in a way it is genius...evil genius, but still genius.  Bankers game the system everyday...and as long as they don't get caught, or are "too big to prosecute", they come out ahead for it.  The kid could just be a great observer of how things work, and has the necessary lack of scruples to try it.


    Yeah, well banksters know enough to (none / 0) (#46)
    by Mr Natural on Sat May 25, 2013 at 07:20:21 AM EST
    keep their mouths shut.  Rule one, if you're lucky enough to be the only witness to your own misdeed, don't talk about it.

    My thought exactly (none / 0) (#51)
    by ExcitableBoy on Sat May 25, 2013 at 10:11:42 AM EST
    I think it was pretty smart, actually.

    I remember when I first heard the story I thought please don't let it be another hoax. It's interesting that he was one of those named in the graffiti, because that sent up a little red flag for me.

    Even though the false ones foster and encourage discussion, they need to have stiff punishments for these hoaxes. With the terrible history of race relations in this country, hoaxes like this that can unfairly make people doubt the many more true occurrences are vile.


    From our "Bongs Away!" file: (none / 0) (#34)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri May 24, 2013 at 05:47:25 PM EST
    Actress Amanda Bynes was charged with reckless endangerment, evidence tampering and marijuana possession today, after allegedly throwing a bong out of her 36th floor apartment window when NYPD officers were summoned due to complaints by building management that she was smoking pot in the lobby.

    This, of course, only complicates matters for her back on the Left Coast, where she's currently on probation after multiple run-ins with the law, including a pending DUI case against her, in which she allegedly hit an L.A. Sheriff's Dept. cruiser last year in West Hollywood.

    It's a b*tch when self-entitlement and reality have a head-on collision.

    she should be charged with (none / 0) (#53)
    by ExcitableBoy on Sat May 25, 2013 at 10:22:08 AM EST
    wasting a perfectly good bong.

    Radio hell yesterday (none / 0) (#52)
    by ExcitableBoy on Sat May 25, 2013 at 10:21:13 AM EST
    I was driving around and for some reason subjected myself to that noxious gasbag Rush Limbaugh for a few minutes.

    He was using the bridge collapse in WA as a hammer to go after the President on stimulus spending. At least nobody died, which would have made using the collapse even worse, but still pretty vile. And typical.