March Madness Day 3 Open Thread

Day 3. The investments: Louisville -11 over Colorado State (3 units), Butler +1 over Marquette, Michigan State -6 over Memphis (3 units), St Louis -3 over Oregon (5 units), Wichita State +6 over Gonzaga (5 units), Syracuse -7 over California (4 units), Michigan -3 over Va Commonwealth (3 units), Arizona -10 over Harvard (3 units)

Yesterday - 9-6 ATS (17-13 in MM), +8 units (+11 units in MM.)

Open Thread.

< Friday Afternoon Open Thread | March Madness Day 4 Open Thread >
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    It was fifty years ago, today... (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Mar 23, 2013 at 01:59:14 PM EST
    40 years since (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Mar 23, 2013 at 03:34:36 PM EST
    the release of Dark Side of the Moon.

    And also, the 40th anniversary ... (none / 0) (#6)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Mar 23, 2013 at 07:52:57 PM EST
    ... of Elton John's Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, a double-album once considered by critics was too diverse, eclectic and long, but since ranked No. 91 by Rolling Stone magazine amongst its 500 Greatest Albums of All Time.

    Watched a great documentary on George Martin (none / 0) (#3)
    by DFLer on Sat Mar 23, 2013 at 04:05:18 PM EST
    Just read today (5.00 / 4) (#4)
    by NYShooter on Sat Mar 23, 2013 at 06:07:46 PM EST
    that President Obama has lost the large lead he had over the Republicans:...... From NYT Link  

    "according to polls, and surveys now show that a roughly equal number of Americans favor Mr. Obama as favor Congressional Republicans on economic matters."

    Way to use that bully pulpit, Mr. President!

    We here at TL (or, most of us anyway) know the republican economic plan :  Reduce incomes for the 99% to bare subsistence levels......for those who can find 3 jobs. I don't have to go through the whole litany....we've beaten it to death over the past months.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is, here we are, into Obama's fifth year, and every political success he's enjoyed from the voting booth he goes out and destroys it by proposing policies exactly opposite of what the Democrats voted for.

    We sit here and post day in and day out what total, complete jerks those R's are. We lick our lips in anticipation of a total Republican implosion every time one of their sadistic "leaders" makes another proposal eviscerating the financial security of our people. And, like clockwork, Obama manages to "turn silk into a sow's ear."

    He is either the most incompetent President in our history, or as big a criminal against humanity as Dimon, Blankfein, and/or Peterson.

    I give up.

    OMG!!! Panic!!! (2.80 / 5) (#7)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Mar 23, 2013 at 08:08:50 PM EST
    You want to borrow my bong? You sound like you need it more than I do right now.

    Not (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by lentinel on Sat Mar 23, 2013 at 09:13:46 PM EST

    More like despair.

    And I don't blame him.


    That's because ... (2.60 / 5) (#12)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Mar 23, 2013 at 10:41:00 PM EST
    ... you're always in despair yourself, and misery loves company.

    Shooter, please pass the bong over to lentinal when you're done.


    Donald, you have a very (5.00 / 7) (#13)
    by caseyOR on Sat Mar 23, 2013 at 11:03:02 PM EST
    "rose-colored glasses" view of Obama. Progressives and liberals have ample reason for despair. My gawd, the fact that he is a Democrat and is pushing changes to Social Security and Medicare that will cut benefits is reason enough for despair.

    Add to that his disregard for the 4th amendment to the Constitution, his drone war, his secret assassination program. Oh, and his probable okay of the Keystone pipeline. Well, surely you see where this is going.

    Obama himself has said that he is really, at heart, a moderate Republican, a species that does not appear in today's GOP. In his heart, Obama is to the right of Nixon. That seems like reason for despair to me.

    These snide attacks you often throw at Obama skeptics are not based in the reality of today's politics. Maybe I shouldn't, but I expect better of you.


    Donald (4.00 / 4) (#14)
    by lentinel on Sat Mar 23, 2013 at 11:27:11 PM EST
    is, I believe he said, an elected official in the Democratic party.

    I believe it colors his perception of reality.

    He doesn't understand how anyone could experience despair under this marvelous administration.

    He must be a most happy fellow.

    I like it when he contributes obituaries.


    I find it difficult to take you seriously ... (1.80 / 5) (#17)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 07:33:57 AM EST
    "You b!tch about the present and blame it on the past. I'd like to find your inner child and kick its little a$$."
    -- The Eagles, "Get Over It" (1994)

    ... when all you seem to do here is gripe, moan and complain about this "marvelous administration." I can't think of the last time you said something positive about this president.

    A few weeks ago, you even sided with those two teabot crackpots, Ted Cruz and Rand Paul -- Ted Cruz and Rand Paul, fer chrissake! -- when they offered what you perceived to be an opportunity to criticize him on Libya.

    You seem chronically unable to grasp the concept that in politics, perfect is often the enemy of the good. You can sneer condescendingly at my personal political activities all you want, but I'll never apologize for the fact that I'm an elected Democratic Party official. I'm proud of it, as a matter of fact. At least I'm putting my money where my mouth is, and I'm out there on the front lines, trying to help move the ball forward toward the goal line and make a difference.

    Practical politics at its core essence is all about leverage and influence, and I've worked very hard over the years to get and maintain what I have. In turn, I admit that it's opened doors for me -- not because I'm simply a nice guy, but because I'm someone who's registered thousands of Democratic voters, who've in turn elected me their chair. I've managed campaigns successfully and helped get good people elected to public office.

    That's leverage and influence, and that's how the game's played, dude. When you can stake a similar claim, call me and we'll talk. But first, like I've told you before, you have to make a personal commitment to get involved, which means getting your hands dirty.

    Because until you do, you'll continue to be the type of liberal (or conservative, for that matter) that most politicians can and will freely ignore, because you talk game, but you don't got game. Thus you have no leverage, and you constitute neither a bona fide political threat nor a practical political asset to anyone.

    "But if you go carryin' pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain't gonna make it with anyone, anyhow."
    - The Beatles, "Revolution (1968)

    That's the harsh reality, lentinel. You don't like it, then go do something positive to change that dynamic. It's never too late to get involved and make a difference, especially on a local level. Because absent that, you're what the local kids out here call "all show, no go."



    Donald's (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by lentinel on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 11:19:04 AM EST
    comment is full of misrepresentations. One of which is that I demean his officialdom. I do not. I simply say that it is something that I believe colors his perceptions. At least, it is a caveat worth mentioning.

    I think it is up to him to point out the wonderful things that he thinks that the Obama administration is doing. Deriding the cretins in the Republican party is just too easy.

    But I must admit, there is also an astounding ego that seeps through his polemics. He thinks himself to be on another plane.

    To quote from Emily Dickenson:

    How dreary - to be - Somebody!
    How public - like a Frog -
    To tell one's name - the livelong June -
    To an admiring Bog!

    The fact that you're an elected (4.50 / 8) (#19)
    by Anne on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 09:09:18 AM EST
    Democratic Party official doesn't mean a whole lot when we consider that our Congress is chock full of them, and there are very few who seem to be terribly interested in doing a whole lot more than making sure they keep getting re-elected.  Oh, and making sure that if they don't, that they were nice enough to all those lobbyists and special interest-type folks so there's  lucrative private-sector employment waiting in the wings...

    A "personal commitment to get involved" is not something you get to define for anyone but yourself, Donald.  People do what they can and what their life circumstances allow them to do, and you don't get to belittle or judge or condescend because it doesn't meet your standards - especially since we aren't people you know any better than what we choose to share here.  As has been pointed out many times before, being "active" in the process does include things like being in contact with our elected officials to let them know what we want and expect from them - you should know that, as you're constantly telling us that that letting them hear from us is how we get them to change.  Just so you know, we're still waiting for that - the change, that is.

    It isn't that people look down on your status within the local Democratic Party, Donald - it's that you hold it over our heads and beat us with it on a regular basis; there's such a feel of I'm-better-then-you-are to it.

    And I have to say that, being no fan of crazy Republicans like Paul and Cruz, it's especially painful when we have to acknowledge that, on an issue like drones and undeclared war, a couple of crazy Republicans have a better position on those issues than the Democratic president and way, way too many of our Democratic members of Congress.  And it does, frankly, turn my stomach to listen to people like you defend the president's policies on the basis that he's a Democrat and some wacko Republicans oppose him.  Read my lips, Donald: Obama's wrong on this, just as he's wrong on "fixing" entitlements, and Simpson/Bowles, and not prosecuting those responsible for the 2008 crash, and decimating the 4th amendment, and prosecuting those who blow the whistle on government wrongdoing - and I don't frankly care if those who agree with me happen to be Republicans, I just wish those who keep defending it weren't Democrats - because I don't want anyone thinking that because I'm a Democrat, that I'm going along with and defending these horrors.

    We are long past the point where you can claim that Obama's simply trying to get along with Republicans so he can move important issues forward; if it isn't obvious to you that Obama is and has been actively advocating policies that are antithetical to what used to be Democratic principles, all I can surmise is that it isn't people like me or lentinel who have our eyes closed, it's people like you.

    You may find the "constant" criticism of Obama tiresome, but, speaking only for myself, I find it not only tiresome to be treated to your condescending and hectoring lectures on why we're just not good enough to meet with your approval, but offensive, as well.


    Anne (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by CoralGables on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 10:17:11 AM EST
    it's the daily non-stop mopey whiney bitching with never a good thing to say about anything from some that gets old. Indeed, after awhile, it starts to look like a daily TL group therapy session for those that wake up miserable day in and day out.

    While I rarely agree with Donald about his mid-majors (sorry Gonzaga), and the mention of "elected party official" may be a waste of typeface after awhile, on this point he is right on target.

    As for the topic that started this, the ABC/Washington Post poll has asked 13 times over the last three years, who do you trust more Obama or the GOP on the economy. The mean of those polls is Obama +4.8%. The mode is +4. The most recent poll mentioned here gives Obama a +4 over the GOP on the economy. Thus making the entire discussion one big bitchfest about exactly nothing.


    I (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by lentinel on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 11:31:23 AM EST
    would be interested in your pointing out the things that you think are good about what the Obama administration is doing.

    You assume that people who are not particularly pleased about the direction of his presidency are miserable. You and Donald both.

    I am not miserable.
    I might be if I had lost my home.
    But fortunately, I did not.
    I am one of the lucky ones - knock wood.

    But I guess you and Donald must be very happy.

    Share some of the sunshine instead of heaping contempt on those who are not so enamored of the policies of the Democratic administration as you purport to be.

    I must say, at the risk of being over the top, that a poll that asks people to choose about whether they trust Obama or the Republicans more on the economy - well - to me its like saying do you prefer Capone or O'Banion ...


    Before I comment on the rest of your (5.00 / 5) (#25)
    by Anne on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 11:55:49 AM EST
    remarks, I should point out that when I read the article linked in Shooter's comment, and keeping in mind also that what I think isn't poll-driven, I came away with a decidedly different take than you did.

    For example (bold is mine):

    In December 2012 and January 2013, polls found that roughly half of Americans had more faith in Mr. Obama's economic stewardship, while just over a third of respondents said they had more faith in the economic stewardship of Congressional Republicans. Since December, however, Mr. Obama's standing has declined by roughly 10 percentage points, while Republicans in Congress have gained 4 or 5 percentage points.


    The CNN poll had another worrying number for Mr. Obama. The last time a government shutdown was in the news, in September 2011, CNN found that 47 percent of respondents thought Republicans in Congress would be more responsible for a shutdown if it occurred. Just one-third of respondents said Mr. Obama would be to blame.

    But CNN asked the question again in its mid-March survey and found that Mr. Obama's advantage was gone; 40 percent of respondents said they would blame Congressional Republicans for a government shutdown and 38 percent said they would blame Mr. Obama. (Threat of a near-term government shutdown was averted after the House of Representatives passed a stopgap bill financing the government through the end of the fiscal year.)


    According to the RealClearPolitics average, Mr. Obama's net job approval is just 1 percentage point (48 percent approve and 47 percent disapprove). That's down from a high in mid-December of plus 12 percentage points (54 percent approved and 42 percent disapproved).

    Just as his overall job approval appears to be falling back to where it hovered for most of 2012, public approval of Mr. Obama's economic stewardship may simply be regressing toward the mean. Polls testing the public's trust in Mr. Obama and Congressional Republicans on economic issues are largely back to where they were for much of 2011 and 2012.

    Okay, so as to the rest of your comment, you complain about the complainers, but where are your well-researched, loaded-with-links, informational comments about the wonderful things Obama and the Dems are doing?  Why are so many of the responses to the whining and bitching more about the whining and bitching than they are about refuting what the whiners and complainers are saying?

    There are times when the negativity gets to me, too, CG, but it gets to me in a different way than I guess it gets to you.  For me, what is so depressing is how futile the fight seems to be - that the president and so many in the House and Senate are closing their eyes to the real pain their preferred policies will and are causing, and to the people most affected, and they are closing their eyes and ears to the calls, letters, faxes and e-mails that many of us are sending their way.  I get depressed about what seems like the inevitability of bad policy, but what seems to set you and Donald off is having to hear about it.


    And it isn't bad policy that depresses you (1.00 / 4) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 01:35:30 PM EST
    It is anything that isn't perfect policy, and you decide what that is.  Anything less than that sends you into condescending hectoring lectures that go on and on.

    Don't speak for me; that isn't your right. (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by Anne on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 01:43:07 PM EST
    Nothing you've said in your comments in this thread has advanced the discussion.

    Get some help; each time you show up here, you seem to have fallen apart just a little bit more.


    That "perfect is the enemy of the good" (5.00 / 4) (#34)
    by shoephone on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 01:45:45 PM EST
    nonsense is used as a cudgel to silence people who have legitimate gripes about policy. And you're using it as a cudgel now.

    I call B.S. on it.


    What hornet's nest you (none / 0) (#37)
    by oculus on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 04:03:25 PM EST
    Have stirred!  

    Bologna (none / 0) (#48)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 01:08:26 AM EST
    It's been skiffing the surface here for weeks and weeks and weeks.  You should see what notable bloggers say about TL on Facebook, not Jeralyn or BTD, just commenters and the aroma around here.  I got all offended the other day when someone attacked me for participating here...then thought about it and they have point.  And why am I even defending most who participate here?  They wouldn't pi$$ on my face if it was on fire :)

    They called most of the commenters here (none / 0) (#49)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 01:20:56 AM EST
    Armchair hindsight quarterbacks who are of the genus and species Haterus Obamais :)

    Golly, that sounds downright scary! (5.00 / 4) (#63)
    by shoephone on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:30:15 AM EST
    Are you serious with this nonsense? I'm supposed to care what your facebook friends think about TL's commenters?

    "Notable bloggers." LOL.


    Hmmm. She said they were on FB, not (none / 0) (#67)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:39:07 AM EST
    that they are her friends n

    What is your deal? (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by sj on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 10:20:49 AM EST
    Are you bored?

    Yes. (none / 0) (#80)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 11:58:29 AM EST
    that's too bad (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by sj on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 12:07:11 PM EST
    I hadn't realized before that you were one of those who would use someone else's distress for personal entertainment or to stave off ennui.  How about a good movie instead?

    Or even a bad one.


    You are reading more into (none / 0) (#82)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 12:08:18 PM EST
    my musings than is there n

    Perhaps (none / 0) (#84)
    by sj on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 12:15:08 PM EST
    Or mayhap you are not reading enough into the results of your "musings".

    Brevity (none / 0) (#86)
    by CoralGables on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 12:26:15 PM EST
    is an underused and mostly lost talent.

    Although brevity here invokes anger. (none / 0) (#87)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 12:30:03 PM EST
    No, it isn't brevity that evokes anger; (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by Anne on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 01:58:46 PM EST
    it's the cheap shots.

    Actually, I don't care what others think of (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:02:26 PM EST
    my comments. It' a blog.

    That's hilarious. (4.00 / 3) (#95)
    by Anne on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:35:55 PM EST
    You don't care what anyone thinks of your comments, and yet...you seem to care so very much about the quality and word-count of what those other people are writing...too funny.

    Sure hope I have more to look forward to in retirement than pushing people's buttons and stirring the sh!t on a blog...


    I do speculate on how (none / 0) (#96)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:45:34 PM EST
    your blog comments might change when you retire.

    Your late night brevity (none / 0) (#88)
    by CoralGables on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 12:41:54 PM EST
    makes me laugh. Some others look for their daily dose of battle.

    Oh brother (none / 0) (#89)
    by sj on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 12:47:58 PM EST
    So that's the story you're going with?  Jeebus.

    Although brevity here invokes anger.

    BTW, my position re SS benefits is that (none / 0) (#91)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 01:52:14 PM EST
    people who have already retired and and are receiving benefits should not have those benefits cut ex post facto. Blows a big hole in pre-retirement planning.

    Blows a big hole (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by sj on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:08:09 PM EST
    in pre-retirement planning for those who have not yet retired also.  

    Because Facebook ... (none / 0) (#75)
    by sj on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 10:19:09 AM EST
    ... is the place to have serious conversation, doncha know.  I use it to track birthdays and not much else because it's so full of garbage these days.  It's the online version of the "news" channels shoutdowns where everybody is talking and no one is listening.

    But probably they're all notable bloggers.


    Ha. I'm wondering if that may explain (1.00 / 2) (#50)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 01:43:33 AM EST
    Armando's posting his non-sports opinions at DK instead of here. Or maybe he doesn't want his grammar and spelling critiqued.

    Shhhhhhhhhhhh (none / 0) (#53)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:00:09 AM EST
    You are like the yackety friend...that's my role :)

    Can't resist. This used to be a place (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:02:11 AM EST
    to read about and discuss serious issues.

    You know what? (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by sj on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 10:27:41 AM EST
    How have I missed your discussion of serious issues?  Most of your comments are one-liners which reveal little to nothing about you except that you have a serious appreciation for the classical arts.  

    Also that you may have been a former prosecutor.

    Also that you think means testing for Social Security is fine as long as you're not subjected to it.

    But go ahead and snigger.   It's really been quite revealing.  Carry on.


    It's too cloudy here (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by NYShooter on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 10:32:52 AM EST
    is there a full moon, maybe?

    Not til Wednesday, so take cover! (none / 0) (#79)
    by Anne on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 11:19:17 AM EST

    Ok. Amend my comment to reading (none / 0) (#85)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 12:15:58 PM EST
    others' discussions of serious issues.  I'm the cryptic commenter.

    I love you (none / 0) (#61)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:22:53 AM EST
    I'm just killing time, you're helping, thank you

    What's up? (none / 0) (#62)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:26:00 AM EST
    You are NOT on PDT.

    What is PDT? (none / 0) (#64)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:34:36 AM EST
    Not military terminology. Or psych. (none / 0) (#65)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:36:49 AM EST
    Pacific Daylight Time.

    email me (none / 0) (#70)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:43:38 AM EST
    Jeralyn is probably sound asleep as she should be.  You can email me at liberalbarking@yahoo.com and I'll open what comes in quickly....but not after quickly you phishers :)  If you want to that is.  Please, nobody from Turkey send me any instant millionaire possibilities :)

    Pacific Daylight Time? (none / 0) (#66)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:37:35 AM EST
    It isn't anything I want to share here...EVER.  NOT EVER!  You don't offer blood to sharks :)  Aren't there TalkLeft features on an older TalkLeft where you can talk?  I'll go look for it.

    Perhaps the premium TL (none / 0) (#69)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:42:15 AM EST
    will have a "message" element. DK does.

    You are on DK (none / 0) (#71)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:44:19 AM EST
    I will message you now.  DUH, message everybody that way!!!!!

    Kdog has my email. (none / 0) (#72)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:45:17 AM EST
    And you know (1.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 01:55:44 AM EST
    If you take a look around here like I just did, that's basically true. It's sad, but true.

    Let the self righteous armchair ranting at dawn begin. Stepping on the face of public servants who want to point out a bit of verisimilitude (that's my Anne word for the day....I need to use it in at least one sentence during normal conversation some time today and I win in my own little bubble) is desirable and commendable behavior.  (I hope I get a badge, I was always big on the badges and sashes)


    According to a recent NYT column, the (none / 0) (#52)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 01:58:15 AM EST
    current word to overuse is "obsessed."  Which seems apropos.

    No no no no no (none / 0) (#55)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:03:50 AM EST
    I am all for a word I heard floating around out there: psychodrama. As my own life unfolds tonight and tomorrow and I wonder what the hell is up here....yup, I'm on the psychodrama wagon.

    I firmly recommend you find another (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:05:58 AM EST
    source of entertainment for tomorrow.

    Tomorrow (none / 0) (#60)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:14:44 AM EST
    Tomorrow I will really know who my friends are. And they aren't on the internet :)  A few have come forward already, I am grateful for them, but tomorrow on all levels in my life friends will come forward or not be there.  I will have enough to carry me, do not worry, because my concerns are much more real life tomorrow than how EVIL the evil Barack Obama is.  That seems so laughable tonight......EVIL Barack...Eeeeeevil!

    A few things: (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Anne on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 10:15:52 AM EST
    One, over the course several years, the TL community has rallied to support you in the personal challenges you've shared with us; in general, I cannot recall any TL commenter attacking anyone who revealed a personal struggle of any kind, even where the normal interaction has been one of animosity, anger and passionate disagreement on the issues.

    Second, you don't owe any of us an explanation about anything; no one who comments here is required to share anything of a personal nature.  That being said, when one reads and comments on a regular basis, patterns develop, personalities emerge, and when those things change - dramatically for the worse -  it is pretty natural, I think, to ask if there's something going on.  What others have shared with me about the change in your pattern is that they are alarmed.

    Third, I can't apologize for the opinions and feelings I have about the direction this country is headed, or for being opposed to many of the policies and actions that are driving it in that direction.  I have never, to my recollection, characterized anyone other than Dick Cheney as "evil;" I just don't see "evil" in Obama as much as I see a moderate Republican struggling to pretend he's a Democrat.

    Fourth, the "notable bloggers" have, in my opinion, been remarkably accepting of policies that are not just worse than those they objected to when Bush was president, but are moving the Democratic Party away from what Democrats used to stand for.  Whatever they're saying on Facebook or Twitter can't be any worse than what they said in 2008, when those who failed to get on the Obama train were jeered, hounded, excoriated and bullied.  

    Fifth, the spelling-and-grammar cracks that both you and oculus have made, like two 12 yr olds at the lunch table, are just really low, but fully in keeping with the juvenile insults you've been lobbing at me and others.  You're clearly acting out, and oculus is just playing the role of sh!t-stirrer - again; I wonder if you realize that she's played you like a fiddle in this thread, taking advantage of your distress to ratchet it up a notch or two.  Some friend.

    Finally, I meant what I said when I told you that, whatever was going on with you, I wished you peace; whatever it is, I hope no one's life is in danger and that it all works out for the best.


    God....universe (none / 0) (#58)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:06:32 AM EST
    Just don't let me fall off.  You have me laughing, I owe you so huge right now.  Someday maybe I will let you know.  Sleep will not come tonight, but laughter will.  I need the later more.

    Condescending and hectoring lectures :) (1.00 / 4) (#29)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 01:32:22 PM EST
    Precious coming from you

    What a crock (1.00 / 6) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 12:50:12 PM EST
    And what a despicable painting you finger painted apparently in your own poop. I often wonder how some individuals here handle the real stressors in their daily lives with such a skewed view of reality.  If something truly challenging happens to them do they just throw themselves off a cliff?  Because for them EVERYTHING is so malignant, terminal, and screwed how could they even want to go on?

    And downrated for being (1.00 / 4) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 12:59:50 PM EST
    A phucking a$$hole

    And you get the same treatment for (5.00 / 5) (#31)
    by Anne on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 01:37:56 PM EST
    the gratuitous name-calling.

    That you have shared some of your life's trials and tribulations does not mean that others don't have their own, nor does it mean that they have not handled their own problems with courage and fortitude.

    You're doing the same thing Donald is doing, and it's just as offensive.

    And it never seems to occur to you that those of us who disagree with many of the administration's policies, agenda and actions do so not necessarily because they are affecting us right this very minute - although many of them are, in not-particularly-visible ways - but because we despair of seeing so many other lives thrown off the cliff.  We love our country, too, Tracy - that's not just something reserved to those in the military or connected to it - and we have the right to point out where things are going sideways and how damaging those things are to the health of the democracy.

    Whatever the hell is going on with you, that you only seem to show up to name-call and bitch-slap people, I wish you peace; in the meantime, you're behavior screams "troll" and it deserves to be treated accordingly.


    While there is a lot of give & take in (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by christinep on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 04:24:38 PM EST
    a discussion like this one (and there should be), the give & take here seems extremely in personam, Anne.  Throwing verbal elbows in this type of debate is to be expected, but the concluding paragraph above--wherein you indicate that MT's strong disagreement with you "screams troll" or an earlier comment with a final paragraph skewering MT's mental health for her differences in commentary--appears to have turned extremely personal in its retaliation.

    Did you read the comment preceding Anne's? (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by shoephone on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 04:32:41 PM EST
    Because, frankly, comment #33 is typical of a number of Tracy's comments that Anne was referring to.

    Well, christine, when someone (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by Anne on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 04:35:05 PM EST
    refers to another commenter as a "phucking a$$hole," I think that's quite personal, and a little more than an elbow - and it was Tracy who threw that out there.

    This site has rules, one of which is, no name-calling.  Tracy has violated that rule, and her comments in this thread are full of insults and completely devoid of substance.  I think that fits the definition of "trollish."

    The last couple of times Tracy has shown herself here, these are the kinds of comments she's made; this extreme change in the kinds of comments she's making is the genesis for wondering what the hell is going on with her.  She is out of control in her comments, which is why I - and others - have questioned what the hell is going on.  Whatever that is, she still does not have the right to name-call the way she has, and as long as she continues to do it, she's going to be treated accordingly.

    Try reading all the comments, christine, and then see if you still feel that Tracy's comments are acceptable.


    If you're going to scold Anne (5.00 / 4) (#43)
    by sj on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 05:28:27 PM EST
    you may as well scold all 4 or 5 or 6 of us who have troll rated every single one of MT's trollish comments today.  And I don't think being concerned for MT's mental health is "skewering" her.  

    While I know it's none of my business and that everybody has more going on in their lives than they share here, I'm also more than a little alarmed.  What has happened to the articulate and thoughtful person that used to show up here?

    Being concerned for her, however, doesn't mean quietly tolerating the abuse she has been doling out of late.


    I know (1.00 / 5) (#33)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 01:44:25 PM EST
    Phucking A$$hole is just too concise.  It is better to write paragraph after paragraph of self righteous indignation day after day after day after day.  Let the stench build in layers, like an expensive nasty perfume.

    Seriously, get some help. (5.00 / 4) (#35)
    by Anne on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 01:49:17 PM EST
    you're out of control.

    I don't have rose-colored glasses. (2.33 / 6) (#16)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 05:08:12 AM EST
    I just choose to not worry about things I really can't effect, such as public opinion polls.

    In fact, I can't think of a bigger waste of my time, especially given that I'm 5,000 miles away from the eastern seaboard and have my own local issues to concern myself with at our State Capitol.

    But hey, knock yourselves out trying to grasp the fickle and transient nature of national public opinion, if that's what you guys want to do.

    Further, I'd offer that since certain pprogressives / liberals here and elsewhere never seem to miss an opportunity to bash the Obama administration and Democrats -- and you know who you are -- well, that also contributes to the erosion of confidence on our own side.

    If you're all really that worried and concerned about a possible Republican resurgence, then get up off your kiesters and go do something about it! Declare your own candidacies for political office to see if you can do any better, or identify a local political candidate you can support and then, you know, actually supporting her or him with deeds rather than with words.

    But for heaven's sake, please cease the relentless sniping at those on your own side. Constructive criticism is good and it's welcome, but I'm not seeing any of that in this discussion.

    I mean, seriously, how does one respond logically to posts that freely careen from laments about tepid poll numbers to hyperbolic accusations against this president for crimes against humanity? You can't. That's tea party stuff.

    Wallowing in one's own political despair solves nothing and gets us nowhere. So, please, stop the perpetual pity party and quit demoralizing yourselves.

    Nuf ced. Aloha.


    If you didn't read Anne's lips (5.00 / 8) (#22)
    by sj on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 11:29:18 AM EST
    try reading mine.  I don't snipe at "my own side".  Because "my own side" is not silent on the curtailing of civil liberties.  "My own side" does not look the other way at kill lists and drones.  "My own side" does not ignore the efforts to benefit the bankers at the expense of the elderly and sick.  "My own side" isn't fine with militarizing the police while prosecuting whistle blowers.  And "my own side" doesn't justify or throw their hands up at indefinite detention.  

    And I don't care now -- any more than I ever have -- what polls say.  My moral compass is not poll-driven.

    Believe this if you believe nothing else.  Any sniping I may do is not at "my own side".  When someone is on "my own side" I say so.


    2.33/6 looks like a March (none / 0) (#68)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:40:10 AM EST
    Madness wager.

    Donald, the bong won't help you now (5.00 / 5) (#28)
    by shoephone on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 01:18:30 PM EST
    You've already drunk so much of the inside-the-beltway-Democratic-Party-kool-aid, you can't see straight as it is. The damage is done, I'm afraid. Just please quit trying to infect the rest of us thinking people.

    Two different languages...in a way (none / 0) (#41)
    by christinep on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 05:00:24 PM EST
    Looking at myself as another one whom you might regard as having drunk "kool-aid," I thought a bit about the type of disagreement that seems to be underlying this thread.  Every so often, the ongoing debate involving left-of-center/would-be or actual progressives/etc. gets going...in my mind while reading such passionate discussion here at TL, I thing "good--healthy, honest, and more"...and, then, we all state again our positions & beliefs either about what Democrats should be doing nationally at this time and/or what liberals should be offering as well (& what strategies work or ultimately advance the liberal agenda.)  

    Doesn't it seem as tho the "debate" begins to look as predictable as a much-listened-to recording?  It could be that we are using differing "languages" while debating...languages wherein certain phrases or word patterns have different (even opposite) meanings.  For example: When one begins from the framework of the Democratic Party (as I do...and as Donald does...and, probably, Coral Gables), the meaning & worth of goals & strategies diverge from those who start from a very different place.  For individuals--like Independents or followers of a more multiple party approach or politically disengaged people--who might be less willing or averse to going along with "party politics" or with parties that do not consistently seek/obtain--say--at least 75% of congruent positions, the frame of reference might not deal in the words & way of thinking that "party" adherents employ.  What might all that mean?  Simply this:  We might have no recourse to a pattern other than circular (on both sides)in the broader sphere of "shoulds."  Where we might bridge a gap or come to something like a consensus in approach may be in more limited areas of legislation...from time to time, anyway.  It is the sweeping implications of what is absolutely right or absolutely wrong that promise circularity.  


    Framework of the Democratic Party (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by shoephone on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 05:28:24 PM EST
    And therein lies the problem, Christine. I don't care for the framework of the party, because I don't care for the party itself. The Democratic  party has become so much like the Republican party in the last twenty years there is no point in me supporting it. Wall Streeters populate the Senate, so-called blue dogs--who are ruled by extremist Christianity--populate the House from the southern
    states. And the rest of the spineless wimps make up the remainder of "the party." Those people do not represent me, my interests, or my values. They have failed. I don't need to keep them second chances.

    As I've said many times here before, I do not consider myself a Democrat, I do not align myself with any party as a matter of course. I care only about policies and politicians who show they have the spine to fight of those policies. The only politician who has ever really represented my values is Jim McDermott, and he has no power whatsoever in the House. There are a number of reasons for this, but suffice it to say, when the president from "our side" keeps putting the kibosh on reps like McDermott, by pushing for conservative betrayals like the f*cking Grand Bargain that will do significant damage to real people's lives, there's absolutely no reason for people like me to support "the party."

    The continual nose-in-the-air scolding from those of you who love Democratic party politics falls on deaf ears. The phony arguments about looking for perfection ring totally hollow. And the more you folks beat that dead horse the more I close my ears to the platitudes and sloganeering that screwed us in the first place.


    Thanks, shoephone, for your full response (none / 0) (#47)
    by christinep on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 06:42:00 PM EST
    You clearly state your position.  And, I understand that position...as best I can.  The qualification in the preceding sentence comes from the undeniable fact that we do start from & remain in different positions; and, from my viewpoint, that is what my earlier comment was attempting to say.  

    Please know that I am not in any way "scolding" you for the position you hold.  I respect the position you describe and appear to consistently represent.  For a number of reasons, however, I disagree with that position as an effective method for moving policy forward...that is simply my opinion, to which I adhere as passionately as you adhere to your position.  Introspectively, for me, a driving reason for my alignment with the political pragmatism bunch is that such strategy--historically in US politics of legislation--tends to advance a position in actual legislation in a more timely manner than what-might-be-described as a more ideological approach.  In a very personal sense: My own background in its very blue-color way showed me again & again that (as my Dad used to say) "A man is not going to talk philosophy until his stomach is full."  All very Maslow-like, obviously.

    So...no, it is not disdain or sneering or anything like that.  It is a difference of opinion; and a healthy one at that.  But, if our methods are different, that doesn't mean that the goals are dissimilar.  Right now, we just use different "platitudes" to express our political beliefs.  And, none of us appears to be more saintly in that regard than anyone else.


    May 29 is the 100-year anniversary of (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by oculus on Sat Mar 23, 2013 at 09:02:35 PM EST
    Stravinsky's ballet score, Le Sacre du printemps.  Every orchestra of reknown is performing and/or recording it. Gergiev and the Mariinsky orchestra and ballet company are headed to Salzburg. .

    We just had a real scare this evening, ... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 03:59:35 AM EST
    ... and our neighbor's two cars have been totally demolished without ever having left the carport as a result.

    Nearly 4 hours ago, probably as a direct consequence of all the heavy rain we've had all last night and today, a huge boulder the size of a Volkwagen Bus broke loose from the mountainside behind and above us and carreened an estimated 800 feet down, hit the driveway and split cleanly in two, and then slammed into the neighbor's cars, literally flattening one into half a pancake and completely crushing in the side of the other.

    We could hear some smaller rocks falling initially and hitting the retaining wall back there, and then suddenly, ka-BOOM!!! The ground and the entire building shook and my first thought was an earthquake.

    There's now a crater some two feet deep and eight feet wide where the boulder initially struck the retaining wall and driveway. The portion of the wall that took the initial brunt of the fall was completely pulverized into dust. One of the two pieces stands taller than me.

    We're actually very lucky that the neighbor's cars were parked there tonight, because otherwise there'd have been a very good chance that one of those two huge pieces could've possibly ended up in someone's kitchen during dinner hour. The cars stopped the momentum.

    And we're all counting our blessings that no kids were out back playing in the driveway at the time -- as is normally the case at 6:40 p.m. on a Saturday evening, save for the rain today -- and that nobody was hurt.

    I'm getting shivers just thinking about it. The police and fire department personnel departed about 40 minutes ago. Tomorrow morning, public safety officials from the State Dept. of Land and Natural Resources are going to survey the entire ridgeline above us to determine if there are any other loose rocks that pose an imminent threat to us down below.

    Mother Nature is sure unpredictable. I bet no one's sleeping to soundly tonight.

    That is horrible. I'm glad no one was (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by caseyOR on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 05:32:41 PM EST
    hurt. Geez, what a shock that must have been.

    Oh my gosh! (none / 0) (#23)
    by sj on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 11:30:34 AM EST
    I'm very happy no one was hurt.

    Yesterday reminded me of one of my (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Dr Molly on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 08:29:49 AM EST
    favorite poems, with this beautiful line:

    "Everything is blooming most recklessly; if it were voices instead of colors, there would be an unbelievable shrieking into the heart of the night."

    Today, though, back to cold and snow showers.

    Are you playing "Wait, wait; don't (none / 0) (#56)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:04:29 AM EST
    tell me"?  Please give the poor poet his due!

    Google is my friend (none / 0) (#73)
    by CoralGables on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 07:32:29 AM EST
    Rainer Maria Rilke

    Yes, sorry I did not provide citation. (none / 0) (#90)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 01:19:05 PM EST
    Erratum: "wait Wait.....don't tell me." (none / 0) (#83)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 12:10:43 PM EST
    GO DUCKS... (none / 0) (#5)
    by fishcamp on Sat Mar 23, 2013 at 06:18:20 PM EST

    Go, Ducks is right. Beat the Billikens 74-57. (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by caseyOR on Sat Mar 23, 2013 at 09:45:13 PM EST
    And now it's on to the Sweet Sixteen for the lads from Eugene.

    GO< DUCKS!!!!

    PS- too bad about the Billikens, Zorba.  :-)


    I congratulate the Ducks (none / 0) (#36)
    by Zorba on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 01:57:35 PM EST
    on their victory over the Billikens.
    But I note that the regular season of Major League Baseball will begin next Sunday, and I look forward to the Cardinals destroying the Cubs.
    Heck, everyone destroys the Cubbies.
    Let's see.  When was the last time the Cubs won a World Series?  That would be 1908, the second of only two World Series victories for the Cubs.
    When was the last time the Cards won a World Series?  Why, that would be 2011, their eleventh Series victory.  The Cards are second only to the New York Yankees in number of World Series won.  (Admittedly, the Yanks have 27 victories, a record which will probably not be surpassed by anyone in my lifetime.  Much as I hate the Yankees, credit is due there.)
    So revenge will be sweet, Casey.

    We'll see, Zorba, we'll see. (none / 0) (#44)
    by caseyOR on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 05:31:25 PM EST
    i don't expect the Cubs to take the WS this year and probably not next year either. My hope for this year is a team that wins more games than it loses.

    I've been following my guys through spring training. The Cubs have made some good moves with their farm teams. There are some excellent prospects that will show up in Iowa this year and make the move to The Show in 2014 and 2015.

    As for the Cards, well, they are hardly in any shape to contend for the post-season.

    Things for the Cubs are looking up. For the Cards, not so much. :-)


    Indeed, we shall see (none / 0) (#46)
    by Zorba on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 06:39:41 PM EST
    The Cards have a long history of pulling it all together at the end, even if they have had a lousy season.
    Don't count them out, is all I'm saying.

    They really look great. (none / 0) (#11)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Mar 23, 2013 at 10:36:11 PM EST
    Wichita State also looked great, too, burying Gonzaga and my West bracket under a 3-pt. barrage at the end of the game.

    Might Michigan actually (none / 0) (#59)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:07:05 AM EST
    beat Kansas?