Dorner Found in CA cabin, Gun Battle Ensues

Update 8:30 pm MT: Manhunt over. A charred body has been removed from the cabin. It is believed to be Dorner. See my update below at 5:17 pm -- the shot referred to on the police scanner was Dormer killing himself.

Update 6:20 pm MT: Reports SWAT team is moving out. No definitive word on whether he is in the cabin, dead or alive. Time for State of the Union.

Update 6:00 pm MT: Great thread of scanner communications. The cabin has collapsed. Reports are that Dorner is not inside. There is no confirmation he has been killed.

Update 5:45 pm: Several reports Dorner is dead. The scanner just went down. Cabin is engulfed in flames. News conference momentarily. [More...]

Update 5:40 pm: Officer on scanner asks "You ready for fire?" Response: No. Fire is containing itself but still smoldering. "Stand by."

Update 5:30 pm: Swat team has started using flash bang grenades. Black smoke seen outside. Exploding ammo heard. Sheriff says smoke is from ammo, not the cabin being on fire. One report says waiting for confirmation that Swat Team has killed Dorner.

Update 5:17 pm: Per scanner, one shot just fired from inside residence. Sounds like he killed himself. I think they are going in. Standby order just given to all units.

Scanner is saying there's a fire in the front and he may come out the back. Officers told to get ready. They just called for a fire engine.

More roads are opening to traffic.

Update 5:00 pm MT: One of the officers shot has died. Sheriff's spokesman says the vehicles coming down are ones that were already on their way, so it doesn't sound like there has been an evacuation. They are still searching cars to make sure he hasn't escaped or carjacked anyone. Some of the highways, like Highway 18, are now opening.

Update 4:30 pmMT: A reporter points out the military vehicle on the right of the photo above as it is being taken up the mountain. An ambulance was spotted driving up the mountain a few minutes ago.

There are no current lights and sirens. Things seem to be less tense. Maybe Dorner's dead? It doesn't seem as reported earlier they don't know where he is. So he must still be in the cabin.

4:00 pm MT: Live Press Conference (by LAPD which is not in control of investigation but getting live updates.) At 12:22 police got call of a stolen vehicle. Went to house where white pickup truck was stolen, got report thief resembled Dorner. Found the truck, suspect believed to be Dorner fled into woods and entered cabin at Highway 38 and Glass Rd. Shootout with officers followed. Two officers shot, believed to be San Bernadino Sheriff's officers. Taken to La Loma Trauma Facility. Before he fled into cabin, he got in a shootout with Fish and Game officers, but none of these officers were hurt.

There is no absolute confirmation it is Dorner.

They think he's watching TV so they have asked media not to show live pictures of the cabin and to stop tweeting. LAPD just sent backup in case San Bernadino asks for it. They want him to turn himself in. San Bernadino Sheriffs are in control, not LAPD.

More live news here. The media must be getting nothing, they are interviewing skiers and people whose cars were searched and giving traffic and weather reports. [More...]

Update 3:46 pm MT: There is a possibility he is out of the cabin. Better reports are on the police scanner, you can listen here.

Bump and Update: Dorner has been found in a cabin at Seven Oaks near Big Bear in Barton Flats (Angelus Oaks, San Bernadino Mountains.) A gun battle ensued with police. Here's a live blog of events. A live video feed is here and here.

Officers are searching cars and the mountain is on lockdown. LAPD Swat officers are headed up the mountain. All roads are closed. The media is being held a few miles away. The Sheriff's asked the media to stop tweeting.

He has barricaded himself in the cabin and is surrounded. Two officers are down (shot), and smoke is coming from the cabin which may be a smoke grenade.

Original Post:

Authorities believe Christopher Dorner has fled to Mexico. Here is the Federal Complaint filed against him for unlawful flight to avoid prosecution. State charges for attempted murder have also been filed.

Despite 1,000 tips, and a $1 million award, authorities have no idea where Dorner is.

< Tuesday Open Thread | State of the Union 2013 >
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  • Display: Sort:
    We can at least be glad it is not summer (5.00 / 3) (#65)
    by ruffian on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 10:39:33 AM EST
    and the whole mountainside did not burn.

    That's what I was thinking when (none / 0) (#66)
    by nycstray on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 10:57:58 AM EST
    I heard the cabin started to burn.

    He had a 50 cal? (none / 0) (#67)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 11:04:49 AM EST
    And he "disabled" a police cruiser engine block with it?  I have mostly ignored this story until today because I can only outrage so much.  I just heard on the news he had a 50 cal and he took out a car engine with it.

    Mother of frick, who knows what the next guy is going to do with the 50 cal?  It is a horrible weapon.  It is a battlefield weapon.  But nobody is going to "get it" in this country until it finds its way into bat$hit crazy hands in downtown Chicago or something.


    Oughta pass a law against them 50's. (none / 0) (#68)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 11:27:40 AM EST
    Some bad $hit is going to happen (none / 0) (#69)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 11:35:00 AM EST
    This was an appetizer.

    That same line again (none / 0) (#92)
    by Yman on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 08:18:49 PM EST
    I just know there's a point in there, somewhere ...

    Youi Don't Know... (none / 0) (#90)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 04:10:33 PM EST
    ...there is a rather large segment of sharp shooting competitions that use 50 caliber rifles.  I remember a big brauhaus like 10 years ago when the city of LA wanted to ban them from city limits and the owners throwing a fit.

    Now I believe California is the only state to ban them, but I could be wrong.  And I think it's only the sale, owning them is still OK.

    My point here, there is a good chance that he legally owned that weapon.


    Unlawful interstate or international flight (none / 0) (#1)
    by Peter G on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 01:39:38 PM EST
    to avoid prosecution, for those not familiar with the federal criminal justice system, is a place-holder charge used simply to justify issuing a federal warrant that can be executed by the U.S. Marshals and the FBI.  When the fugitive is nabbed, as almost always happens, and the person is extradited to the principal charging jurisdiction (here, Los Angeles County, California), the federal fugitive charge is almost always dismissed.

    Not that they would want at all to keep him, I'd guess.

    Yes, in fact there are (none / 0) (#3)
    by Peter G on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 02:35:45 PM EST
    Mexico will not extradite to the U.S. under the treaty unless the American jurisdiction guarantees that the subject will not face life without parole or the death penalty, which are both considered unconstitutionally cruel and unusual under the Mexican Constitution.  However, there are two potential ways around that.  Where the subject is not a Mexican citizen (as here), Mexico can simply deport the person to his home country (here, the U.S.) by taking him into immigration custody, denying any asylum request, and "escorting" him to the border, where, of course, he will be arrested by U.S. agents. Or the U.S. can simply disregard Mexican sovereignty (with Mexican connivance, no doubt) and "kidnap" him to the U.S.  Illegal ... but done, with the Supreme Court saying it has no impact on the subsequent ability of the U.S. to prosecute.

    Never mind (none / 0) (#17)
    by Peter G on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 04:09:41 PM EST
    Here is Dorner... (none / 0) (#4)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 02:36:11 PM EST
    ...buying scuba gear 2 days before the attacks.  I also read he had flight training and tried to steal a boat.  LINK
    In the video, Dorner, who is a former member of a Naval undersea warfare unit, can be seen laughing while talking with the cashier. He paid cash.

    He tried to steal a boat from an 81-year-old man at a San Diego marina on Feb. 7, but failed because a rope became entangled in the vessel's propeller, authorities said.

    One one hand he seems quit skilled and then on the other, he is doofus like.

    he might have had, although it doesn't take much to fly small private planes. However, landing safely is a whole 'nother thing...

    Hey kdog, remember the "Barefoot Bandit?"


    Of course... (none / 0) (#6)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 03:25:43 PM EST
    waiting on word of the Barefoot Bandit's prison break for two years now.

    If Dorner had gone about a non-violent form of revenge against the LAPD, I'd be rooting just as hard for him...but when ya shed blood, or at least innocent blood, ya lose me right quick.  

    Though I certainly wouldn't shed any tears if he goes on to lead a non-violent life of redemption in Mexico or someplace beyond...enough lives have been ended or ruined.  The end of bloodshed is a good enough ending for me...cease fire all around!  


    tell that to his victims (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by nyjets on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 03:33:30 PM EST
    I would be very surprize if his victims and their families will accept that.
    A 'life of redemption' is just another way of saying that he gets away of murdering 3 people.

    Redemption or the needle... (none / 0) (#9)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 03:39:05 PM EST
    either way the victims stay dead.  

    kdog (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by TeresaInPa on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 06:41:39 PM EST
    he murdered people who had nothing to do with the alleged injustice against him.  He felt this was a reasonable way to right the wrongs that he felt had been done to him.  He is full of all sorts of grandiose fantasies.  If there is any chance he can redeem himself, he can do it in prison.

    True (none / 0) (#10)
    by jbindc on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 03:40:18 PM EST
    But one involves punishment and the other is about going on with your life as if nothing happened.

    3 murders = severe punishment.


    Say what you mean... (none / 0) (#12)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 03:46:40 PM EST
    3 murders = 4 murders, maybe more if Dorner's loved ones want to continue the bloodfued cycle and go looking for the jury, prosecutor, judge and/or executioner.

    If the clips of his "manifesto" I've read are any indication, there is some humanity left in the man...if the guilt hasn't hit his conscience yet it will, and that is just a different kind of life sentence and a far cry from "as if nothing happened".  At best (for him) he is looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life and racked with guilt for life...nobody really gets away with anything if you believe in karma and reaping what you sow.


    i am saying what I mean (none / 0) (#18)
    by nyjets on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 04:09:50 PM EST
    3 murder equal punishment. Life in prison. Punishment is not murder unless it is the death penality.
    I do not care if there is any humanity in the man. He need to be punished for what he did. And karma and reaping what you sow is not punishment for three murders. Itis getting away with murder.

    exactly (none / 0) (#11)
    by nyjets on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 03:41:37 PM EST
    His victims stay dead. Which means the killer can do nothing to make up for it. Hence his puishment must be severe (and I am not talking death penality)

    you may not be, but the LAPD is. (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by cpinva on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 04:15:04 PM EST
    given the possibility of a death sentence, if tried and convicted, mr. dorner has exactly zero reasons to surrender peacefully, and lots of reasons to take out as many cops as he can, before they finally kill him, which is exactly what their plan is, regardless of what he does.

    a very good reason for drop-kicking the death penalty.


    i would agree with that (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by nyjets on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 04:16:49 PM EST
    I no longer believe in the death penality .

    as many cops as possible.

    Because of the death penalty (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Peter G on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 04:52:54 PM EST
    he has literally nothing to lose by committing additional murders, and something to gain (a swift and dramatic death) by compelling the police to kill him.

    There is, of course, no way to prove (none / 0) (#27)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 05:01:06 PM EST
    either side of this argument, thus rendering it redonkulous, but in my opinion the DP had no impact on his decision to commit himself to killing as many LEO's as possible and then ultimately suiciding by cop, as he undoubtedly knew he was eventually going to do.

    I think I will say that I agree with you (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Peter G on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 05:16:31 PM EST
    on the first clause (up to the "but") of your response.

    I just found this: (none / 0) (#35)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 06:48:37 PM EST
    Dorner, who vowed not to be taken alive due to the death penalty, had been surrounded inside the cabin since early Tuesday afternoon.
    Ha! Just kidding, here is the actual quote:
    Dorner, who vowed not to be taken alive, had been surrounded inside the cabin since early Tuesday afternoon.
    I'm not linking to the source because I don't trust it...

    If Mr. Dorner (none / 0) (#59)
    by jbindc on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 06:25:24 AM EST
    Was afraid of the death penalty, he wouldn't have killed 4 people to begin with.

    IDK why... (none / 0) (#8)
    by DebFrmHell on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 03:37:03 PM EST
    but there is also the possibility that he has committed suicide up in the hills. For a person so active in a relatively short period of time, he has been strangely silent/inactive.

    He's alive and in Big Bear (none / 0) (#13)
    by nycstray on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 03:48:44 PM EST
    according to a news break. Something about a shoot out. Apparently he broke into a place and tied up the occupants and stole their car.

    That's if the cops have the right suspect ;)


    I just saw that on the news. (none / 0) (#14)
    by DebFrmHell on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 03:59:11 PM EST
    Came back to say scratch that theory.

    Two officers (none / 0) (#15)
    by DebFrmHell on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 04:01:43 PM EST
    have been injured from what has been reported.  They didn't say the extent of the injuries.  SWAT is in the area.

    Let this come to an end.  Please.


    even if they finally have the right suspect, (none / 0) (#16)
    by cpinva on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 04:04:42 PM EST
    given their previous public displays of astonishingly poor marksmanship, my money is on mr. dorner to:

    1. take out several cops.,


    2. easily make his escape, without a scratch.

    any houses, vehicles or innocent parties in the area will, most likely, suffer from the poor aim of the police.


    Apparently he has a hostage. (none / 0) (#20)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 04:16:25 PM EST

    They just broke in (none / 0) (#23)
    by DebFrmHell on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 04:23:42 PM EST
    with a report that there has been a 20 minute shoot out going on.  I am not in CA, I wonder if one of the stations is doing a live feed from their copters.
    url LIVE FEED

    This is the latest I found: (none / 0) (#25)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 04:48:12 PM EST
    Days ago, Dorner broke into a cabin off Route 38, a source said. He allegedly tied up the couple inside and held them hostage until Tuesday morning when he left. It is unclear whether Dorner stole their vehicle or another, but Fish and Wildlife officers knew to be on the lookout for a white pickup truck when they spotted Dorner driving one and attempted to stop him, the source said.

    Dorner crashed the truck during the ensuing chase and allegedly exchanged gunfire with the officers as he fled into another cabin, where he was quickly surrounded by San Bernardino sheriff's deputies. The source said one deputy was hit as Dorner fired out of the cabin and a second was injured when Dorner exited the back of the cabin, deployed a smoke bomb and opened fire again in an apparent attempt to flee. Dorner was driven back inside the cabin, the source said.

    It does not mention a hostage.

    He was holed up on Club View Rd (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Dadler on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 06:34:19 PM EST
    Literally across the street from the entrance to Bear Mountain, where I think the media had set up their hordes. He literally could've been looking out the window at the circus. Nuts.

    Not only that, but ... (none / 0) (#36)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 06:53:00 PM EST
    ... Bear Mountain Resort officials had re-opened this past weekend, and with the recent big snowfall, no doubt people were skiing under his watchful gaze.

    I know the area very well, as my grandparents owned a house in Big Bear and we used to spend many a winter (and summer) weekend up there. It's really beautiful country.


    We're hitting Tahoe this weekend (none / 0) (#46)
    by Dadler on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 08:47:29 PM EST
    But when we lived in Socal it was Summit or Bear Mountain every year this holiday. Woulda been a little too crazy this time.

    Well, if you can't go to Big Bear, ... (none / 0) (#48)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 09:00:16 PM EST
    ... I'd say that Lake Tahoe is a pretty decent consolation prize. Have fun this weekend.

    So much for my theory ... (none / 0) (#24)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 04:45:13 PM EST
    ... offered two days ago that he perhaps froze to death in last week's snowstorm -- although I did offer a caveat that he could be holed up somewhere in Big Bear. I didn't think he could escape from that valley with all the law enforcement swarming the area. There are only three two-lane highways out of Big Bear Valley, and all of them can be easily monitored. As for hiking out in the dead of winter, forget about it.

    According to an LAPD update, ... (none / 0) (#29)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 05:16:57 PM EST
    ... Dorner was actually holed up in a vacation cabin near Bear Mountain Resort, and tied up a housekeeper and her daughter and stole their vehicle.

    He was spotted and confronted by CA Fish & Game officers south of Sugarloaf Mountain on Hwy. 38. After a shootout in which two San Bernardino Sheriff's officers were wounded, he abandoned the vehicle and retreated into the forest toward cabins in the area near Hwy. 38 and Glass Road.

    The San Bernardino Sheriff's Dept. is the lead agency in handling this situation, with LAPD on standby.

    Now saying one officer has died n/t (none / 0) (#30)
    by nycstray on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 05:54:01 PM EST
    Now saying not sure :/ (none / 0) (#31)
    by nycstray on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 05:56:43 PM EST
    San Bernardino County Sheriff's Dept. ... (none / 0) (#32)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 06:25:32 PM EST
    ... has confirmed that one officer has died of his wounds, and the other is still in sugery.

    someone was trying to tell me yesterday (none / 0) (#37)
    by TeresaInPa on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 07:00:22 PM EST
    that he probably committed suicide.  I knew he had way too much ego to kill himself.  

    So, are the cops just letting Dorner's body (none / 0) (#38)
    by caseyOR on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 07:05:34 PM EST
    burn up in the cabin fire?

    Would YOU (none / 0) (#39)
    by jbindc on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 07:14:58 PM EST
    Venture in at this point without knowing what they were going into?

    He's shot and killed 4 people already. (none / 0) (#40)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 07:20:04 PM EST
    If you were the police or fire chief, and you were weighing the upside and downside of trying to put the fire out, would you give the order that would possibly put the firemen in Dorner's cross hairs?

    I sure wouldn't.


    inside the house, not exactly the type of situation I'd send any person into.

    Were I in command, ... (none / 0) (#42)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 07:43:58 PM EST
    ... I certainly would not risk any more officers' lives by attempting to rescue this guy. Frankly, he courted his fate.

    Villaragosa just came to the cameras (none / 0) (#43)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 07:55:28 PM EST
    and thanked the LEO's and talked about the victims, also saying that he won't say anything that should be communicated by LE. Also, the roads are back open. So it sounds like Dorner is dead.

    Certainly, the residents of Big Bear ... (none / 0) (#44)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 08:15:56 PM EST
    ... and surrounding mountain communities are probably breathing a tremendous sigh of relief. This guy caused a lot of grief over the past 10 days, so please excuse me if I don't light a candle in his memory.

    Hey, all I did was ask a question. (none / 0) (#45)
    by caseyOR on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 08:28:18 PM EST
    No value judgement was made. No where did I say that LEO should be sent in. And nowhere did I suggest that anyone "light a candle in his memory."

    Huh??? (none / 0) (#47)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 08:57:01 PM EST
    I'm at a loss here. I wasn't answering you, but was responding to SUO.

    Sorry, donald, i got caught in a tangled (none / 0) (#50)
    by caseyOR on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 09:22:13 PM EST
    web of comments.

    Authorities let the cabin burn.

    "We [LEO's] won't allow them (firefighters) to get close to the cabin,'' said sheriff's spokeswoman Bachman. "It's just not safe.''

    Reports say that ... (none / 0) (#49)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 09:05:00 PM EST
    ... a body has been recovered from the cabin. No confirmation as to whether it's Dorner.

    I am confused as... (none / 0) (#51)
    by DebFrmHell on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 09:50:48 PM EST
    to the reactions around the web.  I am startled by the amount of support Dorner has had.

    ABC has confirmed that Dorner is indeed dead.  (I know, I know)and frankly, if true, I am relieved for everyone and their families that was still living listed in his manifesto.

    "I never had an opportunity to have a family of my own, I'm terminating yours," Dorner wrote, and directed Quan and other officials to "[l]ook your wives/husbands and surviving children directly in the face and tell them the truth as to why your children are dead."

    That sealed the deal for me and all sympathy went the way of clouds.

    People hate being treated like crap... (none / 0) (#52)
    by redwolf on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 12:01:30 AM EST
    by the police.  There's no love for the LEOs these days.  Nor do we like the fact that the cops can burn people to death, shoot up random people,  steal our money, and violate traffic laws without penalty.  The police largely treat us like we're serfs and they're the local lord's enforcers.

    Don't impute your issues with LEOs ... (none / 0) (#60)
    by Yman on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 07:36:26 AM EST
    ... to the general population.  Of course there are always going to be problems with any large group of people in authority positions, but you obviously have some king of personal animus toward LEOs in general.

    He's right on the whole (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Dadler on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 10:35:08 AM EST
    The police in this nation have become a kind of Praetorian Guard. In the wake of OCCUPY it became obvious after Chase bribe the police with a multi-million dollar donatin to the NYC Police fund. I would never say all police are anything, but I will say, as a person with no arrest record at all, I have probably had twenty interactions with police (including being held on the ground at gunpoint as a 12 year-old), and I tell you this honestly: I have never had a single interaction with an officer that I would describe as pleasant. Always attitude, always condescending, and it genuinely disturbs me. Though thinking about it, I did have one decent interaction this year, a first, so maybe there's hope.

    Praetorian Guard.. (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by jondee on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 12:10:31 PM EST
    who else is going to guard those gated communities in the Hamptons the next time the economic shite hits the fan?

    Of course they're romanticized by the owners of the media.

    At least the actual Praetorian Guard had the sense
    to take out the odd Caligula and Nero on occasion.


    Betwen traffic tickets (none / 0) (#80)
    by Dadler on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 02:09:38 PM EST
    ...and being face-down with that shotgun on my back, and living in the inner-city and simply having to deal with the police a lot (try having a kid murdered on the sidewalk outside your bedroom window while you heard it all go down, very pleasant), yes, about 20 interactions with cops in my 46 years. If you spend your whole life in the upper middle class burbs (as I'm fortunate enough to have made it to now) then maybe you don't have that. But I spent a lot of time in the inner city, both as a child and younger adult, and, what can I say, that's the total. Hey, one time, I went up to an officer in a burger joint, just to ask him the procedure for getting information about a crime (that murder) that happened outside my door. The officer treated my like a piece of dirt: "How the hell would I know about that case? Come on, be serious." Phucker didn't even TRY to understand what I was actually asking him. It's stuff like that, drives me nuts. He had no reason to cop, pun intended, attitude with me.

    oops, this was meant... (none / 0) (#83)
    by Dadler on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 02:11:27 PM EST
    ...as a reply to JBINDC.

    We'll get there (none / 0) (#81)
    by Dadler on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 02:10:29 PM EST
    It just takes teamwork.



    Twenty interactions??? (none / 0) (#71)
    by jbindc on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 11:45:04 AM EST
    accidentally posted my reply to you... (none / 0) (#84)
    by Dadler on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 02:12:35 PM EST
    And don't even start me... (none / 0) (#85)
    by Dadler on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 02:20:38 PM EST
    ...on my one experience with CHP when I totaled my car and got the full "you must be drunk" treatment. I mean, when the cop gets in your face and yells, "I smell booze all over that car, man!!" and you know, factually, that he's full of sh*t, I mean, come on. I had actually overcorrected while driving the sports car my wife had at the time, and managed to swipe a concrete freeway overpass column just enough to shear my tire off. After the senior officer of the reporting pair got his younger idiot partner off my ass -- after the young guy refused to believe I had a dropped foot and partially paralyzed leg, and therefore that I wasn't good for certain sobriety tests, which he again got right in my face and told me I was lying about -- I was finally given the breathalyzer, and believe me I was relieved to see it. Great, I thought, let me blow into this thing so these guys realize I am not drunk at all. Their disappointment when I blew zilch on the booze meter was so palpable I thought they'd cry. A*sholes.

    Did you she them? (none / 0) (#86)
    by oculus on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 02:22:49 PM EST
    I think you mean sue (none / 0) (#87)
    by Dadler on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 02:27:49 PM EST
    No, I'm not that guy. It's not like they knocked me around or anything, they were just kind of garden variety a-holes. I understand they have an unique and sometimes dangerous job, but they just struck me as looking for a fight.

    I've had many ... (none / 0) (#93)
    by Yman on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 08:24:10 PM EST
    ... that were pleasant, several that were neutral and one that was unpleasant.

    Are you serious Yman? (none / 0) (#77)
    by kdog on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 01:43:06 PM EST
    It is no stretch to say the gen pop in this country has no love for the police.  I'd call it a part of the American outlaw tradition.  

    Granted the average Joe might not be as down on the institution as redwolf or I, but they aren't called p*gs for nuthin' bro.  It's no mystery the guy garnered a fan club.


    'American outlaw tradition' (none / 0) (#78)
    by nyjets on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 01:55:17 PM EST
    So it is a tradition for americans to support murders and people who hurt and terrorize innocent people?
    You are saying that people want to live in a society where criminals can do whatever they want?
    Sorry but I refuse to follow this outlaw tradtion.

    And I always beleived that they were called pigs by people who want to live in a society where criminals rule the streets and people have to live in terror.


    People want to live in a society where (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by Anne on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 03:48:15 PM EST
    the people whose job it is to enforce the law don't hold themselves above it.

    Wearing a uniform or carrying a badge is not a license to break laws one is arresting and detaining others for breaking.

    One thing, though: this seeming increase in people in law enforcement abusing their authority may have something to do with the abuses of authority that are happening at the highest levels of government; when no one at the top is held accountable, why should anyone, at any level, feel they have to answer for their actions?


    I just said... (none / 0) (#79)
    by kdog on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 02:07:09 PM EST
    we got no love for the police who murder, hurt, and terrorize innocent people...we like the outlaws;)

    Granted the Robin Hood type outlaw is our favorite, but murder isn't an automatic disqualification for outlaw adoration.

    All I'm really saying is if you are shocked as to why a guy like this could have a facebook fanpage, you just don't understand this country and its people very well.


    you do release (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by nyjets on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 02:10:41 PM EST
    That outlaws do murder and terrorize innocent people. And not all police act like criminals.
    And the simple fact that murder is not an automatic disqualification for outlaw adoration demonstrates the simple fact that this country is doomed.
    ANd I will never understand this country for the support of a murder.

    Oy (none / 0) (#88)
    by sj on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 02:50:52 PM EST
    And I always beleived that they were called pigs by people who want to live in a society where criminals rule the streets and people have to live in terror.

    Just... oy

    Completely (none / 0) (#91)
    by Yman on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 08:17:29 PM EST
    There's a hee-YOOOOOGE difference between your claim that the "gen pop in this country has no love for the police" and Redwolf's anger-filled vitriole that he levels at police as a whole.  I'm not sure what the attitude of the general public is toward police as a whole (may need to google some polls), but I have no doubt that it's much higher than yours, and orders of magnitude better than Redwolf's.  

    Here's the first one I found - a metanalysis of numerous polls and studies conducted about public opinion of police from the 1960s to 2001:

    Polls of the adult population in the United States since the 1960s show that the majority of the public has an over-all positive view of the police. Depending on the year and the particular measure used, the percentage of respondents with a positive assessment of police has been between 51 and 81 percent. When asked to assess service to their own neighborhoods, respondents tend to produce even higher evaluations. Relatively few citizens offer a negative assessment of police.

    The police consistently rank among the institutions and occupations in which the public expresses the highest confidence and trust.

    And if he'd just shot cops (none / 0) (#63)
    by Socraticsilence on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 10:13:18 AM EST
    you might have a point, he shot a young woman and her fiance just to make her father suffer-- that is in no way acceptable.

    No, (s)he still wouldn't have a point (none / 0) (#70)
    by jbindc on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 11:44:40 AM EST
    Agreed. (none / 0) (#73)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 11:51:14 AM EST
    There's no excuse acceptable for what transpired these last ten days. None.

    Now, I might sympathize with the deceased's family for trying to comprehend the bewildering series of events that culminated in the fiery loss of their relative in that cabin yesterday, but as I said earlier, I believe he deliberately courted his own fate.


    I absolutely sympathize with his family (none / 0) (#75)
    by jbindc on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 11:59:54 AM EST
    He was a grown man who, for whatever reason, made his own choices.  I am sorry they lost someone they loved, but as for him - good riddance.

    No it isn't (none / 0) (#94)
    by Socraticsilence on Thu Feb 14, 2013 at 11:51:53 AM EST
    I meant more along the lines of his grievance while obviously not rising to the level of murder would at least have been directed towards those with whom he had a problem- murder is never justified I just meant to point out that this guy was a nut not acting rationally.

    Incredible. (none / 0) (#54)
    by oculus on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 12:27:26 AM EST

    That's being generous. (none / 0) (#56)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 01:15:09 AM EST

    I deleted two of (none / 0) (#57)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 01:58:34 AM EST
    redwolf's comments accusing cops in general of various atrocities.  Those are the comments you were responding to. I'm no fan of law enforcement, but those comments were beneath the dignity of this site.

    Thank you. It is very difficult (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by oculus on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 02:29:38 AM EST
    for me to comprehend murder as an appropriate response to wrongful termination.

    Same for me. Mahalo, Jaralyn. (none / 0) (#72)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 11:45:41 AM EST
    There's really no excuse that's acceptable for the mayhem that Dorner allegedly caused throughout Southern California these past ten days. Yet if you go on the L.A. Times website, and you'll note how many commenters actually sympathize with Dorner, which is both shocking and disturbing.

    UPDATE: As of 8:30 p.m. PST, ... (none / 0) (#55)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 01:12:45 AM EST
    ... Cindy Bachman, spokesperson for the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Dept., has confirmed that no body has been recovered from the still-smoldering ruins of that cabin, only because the site is apparently still too hot for LE and FD personnel to enter safely. Earlier reports of a charred body being found and removed from the cabin were apparently premature.

    Finally, late Tuesday night, (none / 0) (#61)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 09:35:02 AM EST
    Finally, late Tuesday night, sheriff's investigators said they found charred human remains within the ashes of the torched cabin.

    The department said it will work to identify the remains -- but it could take a while.

    Does the maid who called the police (none / 0) (#74)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 11:54:29 AM EST
    get the $1,000,000?