Open Thread: How Many are Freezing?

We broke a record temperature yesterday -15 degrees at 9 pm. The cold will be here for days. I'll be in court, so here's an open thread, all topics welcome. Stay civil please.

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    Been in the 30s here at night... (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Dadler on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 08:00:06 AM EST
    ...on the northern end of the SF peninsula. Not exactly -15, but for this SoCal boy, brrrr. And it might get below freezing this weekend. I am already sleeping in sweats and a beaning, since the master is the coldest room in the house, and the ancient furnace just doesn't do sh*t in the room. Rest of the house, toasty. Our bedroom, meat locker.

    75 on the Drive In... (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 08:08:17 AM EST
    ...but predicting 30 for the drive home, which in Houston, is crisis temp.  So long as it doesn't rain/snow we should be OK, but if it does, I will be at home tomorrow because the city will shut down.  Which allll-right with me.

    Over here in SATX (none / 0) (#15)
    by DebFrmHell on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 10:17:16 AM EST
    It has gotten a little chilly @47deg.  I love this kind of weather and I am ready to party like it's 1985!  

    2004 for you in HOU! happily remembering 2004 and the "kids" in my section went out and made snowballs off my car...After about 4 of those in the butt, I was done.  I told mgt since I lived in Kemah and had to go over the bridge that I needed to leave.  

    Never mind that I went through League City to get home...

    8^)  Snow for Christmas...in Houston.  #WhoDaThunkIt


    Yeah... (none / 0) (#20)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 10:44:30 AM EST
    ...that year was something, snow on Christmas that actually stuck.  I remember making all these plans because I am from Wisconsin.  I was going to wrap up all kinds of errands, including last minute shopping, in my SUV while the Texans stayed home.

    Nothing was open and little did I realize how much a little sand and salt helped keep the roads safe.  It was scary, even from a very experienced man of snow like me, went home and enjoyed the 2 snow days we had from work.

    Never again will I venture own when there is snow, which hopefully will be tomorrow !!


    Just Got Notice... (none / 0) (#35)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 12:33:59 PM EST
    ...that out facility in McAlester, OK is closing early and will not be open tomorrow due to weather.

    A couple of years... (none / 0) (#56)
    by DebFrmHell on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 03:23:59 PM EST
    back, SATX decided to try something new rather than salt.  Turns out what they put on the freeways were like little marbles.  Cars were going every where, usually into a guard rail.  Like 30 wrecks within an hour.

    They didn't use that stuff again!


    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 208 (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Dadler on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 08:09:28 AM EST
    Confession (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by Dadler on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 10:19:07 AM EST
    I think I broke my mother's heart yesterday, when we got in a discussion about our abusive background together. I feel like a piece of sh*t for wounding her, but I couldn't hold certain things in any longer or they were going to destroy my body, forget my mind. She and I have such a traumatic history together, were both abused by the same man, and it just set us on a very messed up path for so man years. I was trying to put the last piece of the puzzle together for myself yesterday, and I fear I did a very lousy job, no matter how loving and forgiving I was trying to be.

    Phuck I'm so sad right now.

    many years, no man years (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Dadler on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 10:19:53 AM EST
    Though that has to be some sort of Freudian proofreading error. ;-)

    Dadler, it makes me sad to read what you wrote. (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by oculus on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 10:45:16 AM EST
    From what you've told us, though, your mother must be a very resilient and forward-thinking woman.

    Thank you (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Dadler on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 12:10:06 PM EST
    I really appreciate the thoughts. I need them. All good tho, we're fine, if a little dinged up for the moment.

    Hang in there D... (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by kdog on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 10:58:43 AM EST
    Maybe it will sooth your soul to think of it this way...sometimes ya gotta break something to mend something.  Like a fractured bone that must be broken to be set properly to heal.

    This one's for you my brother...Only Love Can Break Your Heart.


    You're the best, my boy (none / 0) (#30)
    by Dadler on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 12:10:53 PM EST
    You couldn't have linked me to a better song for some serious catharsis of the smiling sort.

    Rip it up in the cube today.



    Rip it up? (none / 0) (#33)
    by kdog on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 12:26:37 PM EST
    Can I rip it down instead?  Just wasted an hour of my life in mediation over 7 dollars. Arguing with a six-figure a year winner, and pleading with a fellow cube jockey for an exception to their corporate overlords polic. Over a measley 7 dollars!

    Maybe it's me...but I'm pretty sure it's everybody else;)


    Maybe (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by christinep on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 12:20:06 PM EST
    it takes a heart-wrenching confessional, and the exposure you describe, to allow for real peace. Maybe then there will be room for forgiving.  When I read this comment, your hurt pierced through the page ... and, I thought of a meaningful Ibsen play written in his maturity called "Wild Ducks."

    Thank you, and Ibsen is kind of spot on (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Dadler on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 01:30:00 PM EST
    Tho I'm also, trying to laugh, remembering the line from the late 80s British flick, WITHNAIL & I, starring a young Richard Grant, as a failed an and delusional actor drowning himself in booze or, in one scene, lighter fluid. Anyway, when he finds out he hasn't gotten a part in a production of THE CHERRY ORCHARD (or one of her sisters), he delivers the bitter line, and I paraphrase sort of: "Oh who the phuck cares about Chekhov anyway? Nothing but a bunch Russian woman staring out the window bitching about ducks flying to Moscow." ;-)

    a bunch OF Russian womEn (none / 0) (#47)
    by Dadler on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 01:40:54 PM EST
    oy, nothing like messing up your punchline. :-P

    I love that movie (none / 0) (#53)
    by lilburro on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 02:47:08 PM EST
    Richard Grant is phenomenal.  Sending positive thoughts your way.

    Peace, brother (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by jbindc on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 12:38:29 PM EST
    Virtual hugs coming to you and your mom.

    Many thanks (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Dadler on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 01:30:24 PM EST
    Appreciate the good vibes. :-)

    But you got into a discussion, which, as (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Anne on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 12:46:48 PM EST
    painful as it is, is kind of like ripping off a band-aid so the wound can breathe: the more light and air you give it, the better conditions you create for healing.

    You're a parent - you know how your heart aches for your kid, and how you always take on some of the blame for what's happening onto yourself, just because we're all secretly afraid that we're so clueless about this parenting thing that we surely must be getting it wrong somehow.

    And there's nothing like parenthood to bring you face-to-face with your own parents; yes, we can see their flaws, but honestly, nothing ever helped me understand my parents better than having my own kids.  Lots of things that made no sense to me as a child made all kinds of sense as a parent.

    Hardest part for me?  Breaking those co-dependent, dysfunctional patterns so my kids had a better chance of not making them part of their own psyches.  Not sure how good a job I did, but I hope if my girls ever want help understanding themselves in light of their younger years, they'll come to me.

    Your mother loves you too much not to want to help you through this part of the process, even if that's painful for her.  It's a testament to how much you love each other that you can do this.

    Peace to you and your mom.


    You put it very well and comapassionately (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by Dadler on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 01:35:40 PM EST
    Being a parent now myself, you're right, and as I told her, makes me understand better, knowing she was abused as well, knowing I'm not a perfect dad and am apologizing for being too angry or irrational or whatever. And you're also right about having to rip it away. My son has endured a lifetime of trying to understand his father and grandmother's relationship, or lack of one, and I am tired of having that cloud. Now, I think, it's cleared. She sent me a very sweet email this morning, still wounded I could tell, and I was able to reply and tell her, "The guilt isn't yours to bear anymore. It's for the men who phucked us over, they're to blame, they left a very young woman and a child to fend for themselves in a big city. I get it, I understand. Completely." And I hope it eases her burden some more, she's such a sensitive and fragile soul, and yet a completely brilliant woman, world renown in her field. And I'm so proud of her, brag about her, and I wanted her to know. Ack, I love online therapy. Way cheaper than the real thing. ;-)  Thanks again for the lovely reply.

    You are such (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by Zorba on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 04:37:37 PM EST
    a wise man, Dadler.   {{Hugs}}

    Sad for you, and admire your courage (5.00 / 3) (#57)
    by ruffian on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 03:45:48 PM EST
    I never had the strength to being up things when I had the chance, and always wonder if it would have helped my relationship with my dad.

    I hope this brings you and your mom closer together after time to heal.


    Sad, mad, but glad... (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by fishcamp on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 04:16:14 PM EST
    Sad to read this Dadler and mad it had to happen to you.  I am glad you and your mother have talked it out and hope it helps in the long run.  Strangely we are a type of family here on TL and I feel honored you have shared this with us.  I admire you man.  If you ever want to catch a fish come on out as mi casa es su casa.  xo

    You're a brave soul (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by sj on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 04:30:00 PM EST
    Dadler. I understand you both better than you know. Peace to you and all your family.

    Nicely done Dadler. (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 11:58:44 PM EST
    My mom passed a couple years ago w/o either of us choosing to become vulnerable enough to reach out in such a manner. I literally can not imagine my sons not continuing the close relationship they have now with their mother, my wife. Keep on keeping on, the world is a better place with and your mom in it.

    "with you and your mom in it." (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 11:59:30 PM EST
    Minnesota has two good seasons (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 12:19:35 PM EST

    We are just leaving the wonderful no snow season and are now entering the wonderful no mosquito season.  There is always something positive to look forward to.

    Time Out For A Real "DUH" Moment (5.00 / 4) (#39)
    by MO Blue on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 12:51:30 PM EST
    Republican men need more sensitivity on women's issues, Boehner says

    Republican men in Congress "aren't as sensitive as they ought to be" when it comes to running against women candidates and appealing to women voters, Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) said Thursday. link

    That's like asking a hyena to become a cute and cuddly animal.  

    Maybe... (none / 0) (#42)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 01:27:14 PM EST
    ...Boner should add minorities and people in poverty into the sensitivity offending mix.

    But beyond the cute and cuddly hyena, it's what makes republicans, republicans, their belief in that they are entitled; the real American class.

    But realistically, it's not about being more sensitive, it's about getting female votes.  If they could understand what others go through and empathize with their plights, they would democrats.

    But by all means steer the clown car towards sensitivityville, if anything should make for some really good TV.  I can just see Gohmert in front of the cameras showing off his newly learned sensitivity of the women folk.

    They might want to throw a female anatomy class into he mix, so they can stop believing garbage like a raped women can't get pregnant.


    They're too busy being schooled by (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by shoephone on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 01:39:12 PM EST
    this knucklehead to ever change. He gives them their marching orders, and when they don't fall in line, he lambastes them on the air and then they fall on their swords. A big bunch of ignorant cowards, every one.

    Really (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 01:47:33 PM EST
    though you have to laugh. They created the Limbaugh monster and now he's continuing to drag them down. I guess we can start to begin getting more Catholic votes? Every time you think Limbaugh can't say something more stupid than the last, he does.

    There's a new GOP gaffe almost every day (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by shoephone on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 01:51:43 PM EST
    Here's this week's:

    "[I]f you don't really understand what covering pre-existing conditions would be like, it would be like in Georgia we have a law that says you have to have insurance on your automobile," Ralph Hudgens told an audience at a Republican Women's Club Meeting, unaware that his remarks were being filmed.

    You have to have liability insurance. If you're going to drive on Georgia's roads, you have to have liability insurance. You don't have to have collision. You don't have to have comprehensive.... But you have to have liability.

    But say you're going along and you have a wreck. And it's your fault. Well, a pre-existing condition would be you then calling up your insurance agent and saying, `I would like to get collision insurance coverage on my car.' And your insurance agent says, `Well, you never had that before. Why would you want it now?' And you say, `Well, I just had a wreck, it was my fault and I want the insurance company to pay to repair my car.' And that's the exact same thing on pre-existing insurance.

    This guy (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 03:06:00 PM EST
    is the KING OF STUPID. He should never go to another speaking event. He's always filmed and his idiocy gets him laughed at time and again.

    I was hoping you'd chime in on this one! (none / 0) (#58)
    by shoephone on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 03:48:57 PM EST
    Thanks for confirming.

    Georgia doings (none / 0) (#73)
    by christinep on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 05:24:26 PM EST
    What say you, Ga6thDem ... could Michelle Nunn be the surprise of the 2014 campaign?

    I really (none / 0) (#85)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 06:50:51 PM EST
    don't know. Her chances of winning are a lot better if the GOP nominates a crackpot like Paul Broun. Of course having him as a candidate hurts the entire GOP across the country more than anything. Nunn could still lose to him but he might cost the GOP the senate again.

    Digby has a post up today (none / 0) (#128)
    by shoephone on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 02:50:48 PM EST
    on Broun and Kingston, titled "Wingnut vs. Wingnut." Lawd help Georgia. In fact, all of Digby's latest posts are brilliant. Well worth the read.

    That Was basically the Last... (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 03:09:52 PM EST
    ...republican primary with the likes of Bachman, Santorum, Gingrich, Paul, Perry, and Cain.  Lunatics who convinced other lunatics they would make a good leader of the free world.  Lucky for us there are only so many lunatics to go around...

    There is literally nothing too crazy the right can't get behind.

    But speaking of drug testing, did you know the Congressman, Trey Radel, who was busted for buying blow voted for legislation that would require food stamp recipients to get drug tested.  Wonder if he was high when he did it, or jonesing because he was out.

    In June, Rep. Jim McGovern (D-Mass.) made that very suggestion when he questioned why recipients of crop insurance and other government benefits weren't also targeted for drug tests like people on food stamps.

    "Why don't we drug test all the members of Congress here," McGovern said shortly before the drug-testing measure passed. "Force everybody to go urinate in a cup or see whether or not anybody is on drugs? Maybe that will explain why some of these amendments are coming up or why some of the votes are turning out the way they are."


    IOW, Jim McGovern was right about at least one amendment.


    Radel--what a piece of work (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by shoephone on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 03:33:59 PM EST
    Hypocrisy knows no bounds with the GOP. And if Radel were a Dem congressman, the GOP would be howling for his arrest and lifetime incarceration.

    Oh come now (none / 0) (#95)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 12:11:33 AM EST
    I know he is a Repub and you hate'em but he is exactly right.

    And that is the reason why we need to cover everyone all the time with a single payer system based on the Medicare model.

    Instead we cover fewer and pay more.


    Do you (5.00 / 4) (#98)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 05:45:17 AM EST
    really think this guy would go for single payer? You are seriously delusional if you think he would.

    No, he is wrong because we are already paying for people with preexisting conditions. I'm guessing you don't know enough about insurance to know that companies are "medically rated" for their insurance quotes. If they have an employee that has had cancer they are going to pay more for their insurance than another business that has not. It's one of the reasons so many businesses discriminate against older people. The thing is this idiot is the insurance commissioner and he should know this. Either he is a complete idiot or another example of "fleecing the rubes".

    And the irony is that he's undercutting the message from the GOP because they SAY they support getting rid of the preexisting conditions problems.  


    Oh Jim... (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 08:33:33 AM EST
    ...the analogy is really bad.

    If cars must be used it's like buying a lemon, but never having the ability to get trade up.  An accident in both cases is just that, an accident.  An error in judgement that is generally not normal or reoccurring.  Plus, you can't buy health insurance on your way to the hospital or mechanic after an accident, that is just beyond stoooopid.

    But knowing there is a reoccurring brake problem without being able to get the parts would be a far better analogy to per-existing conditions.  Which I might add, if you ever switched auto insurance, they generally make you bring it in to ensure there is no previous damage, or what us humans would call per-existing conditions.  So that non-sense doesn't float with cars either.

    I would also add that the cost of maintaining/fixing repairing an automobile car is a fraction of the cost of maintaining a human being, meaning that not many folks are going into bankruptcy over repair bills for their car.  Not true of human beings.

    The problem of course, is unlike automobiles, once a person has something like a life-long disease, it is impossible to take it to a mechanic/doctor and get it fixed.  More like failing emissions testing with no catalytic converters for that car available, so the issue doesn't ever go away, it can only be tweaked to run as efficiently as possible, but it may never pass emissions.

    And one last point, most cars come with warranties right out of the box, making vehicles like mine warrantied for good portion of their useful lifetimes.  My truck is good to go until 06/2015 or 100k miles, no BS, and a $50 deductible/copay.  No secret charges or denial of coverage, $50 per issue for what I would imagine here in Houston is almost the entire expected lifetime of the vehicle.  My responsibility is maintenance, which I would add was covered for the 6 years, 72k I believe.  And the costs, built into the price, doesn't cost a me a nickle, hasn't since I paid it off a couple years ago.

    No analogy for humans, maybe single payer if everyone had it since the moment of conception.

    But other that the obvious main points being complete garbage, you are right, human beings are just like cars when it comes their insurance needs.  And per-existing conditions are just like an automobile accident...


    You can always (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 09:02:24 AM EST
    buy a new car.  Can't buy a new you.

    et al - You can dodge but you cannot (none / 0) (#135)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 12:36:13 PM EST
    avoid the essential point.

    And Obamacare has no real way to prevent people from signing up until they know they have a disease that needs insurance.

    OTOH a single payer system based on Medicare solves the problem.


    Medicare for all (none / 0) (#136)
    by Politalkix on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 04:18:02 PM EST
    funded by a national sales tax for all (that you want)is a non-starter for many because a national sales tax is a regressive tax.

    So you don't want a single payer (none / 0) (#137)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 10:38:37 AM EST

    You want a some people payer system.

    Okay, I never thought otherwise.

    Problem is, a very large number of people think, correctly, that to be the case when single payer is brought up by anyone on the Left.

    And this generates huge opposition.

    Of course it could be made more "fair." (I use the quotation marks in memory of what Humpty Dumpty told Alice.)

    Unprepared food and other items could be exempted.

    Would that get you to support my plan?


    What does this even mean? (none / 0) (#138)
    by Yman on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 06:07:49 PM EST
    So you don't want a single payer
    system.  You want a some people payer system.

    Okay, I never thought otherwise.

    Or, we want a system that isn't based on the most regressive form of taxation in an attempt to punish the "47%" - a class of which you are most likely a member.


    He's in the neighborhood... (none / 0) (#97)
    by unitron on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 05:28:43 AM EST
    ...of being right.

    But car analogies, like cars, sometimes break down.

    In the case of "I want to buy insurance that covers the accident I just had", an adjuster can take a look and know what it's going to cost the insurance company to fix the car. However much it's going to be, they know going in that it's going to be that much and then that's the end of the cost of that particular accident.

    In the case of pre-existing medical conditions, some educated guesses can be made about how much the person will cost the insurance company in the future, but it can't be known for sure.

    Maybe that cancer will come back, maybe it won't.

    Maybe the expensive drug regimen the person is expected to have to be on for the rest of their life will be supplanted by some new, less expensive drug, or an actual cure for the condition will be discovered.

    And someone without a pre-existing condition may have something go wrong tomorrow that'll cost the insurance company a king's ransom over the years.

    So the car analogy might be to the policy seeker who didn't just have an accident they want covered but does have a horrible driving record that doesn't guarantee that they'll be a net loss for the insurance company but is a strong indicator that they might very well be.

    If you compare a car analogy to a car, is that a car analogy?

    Or an analogy analogy?


    As Someone Posted Here... (none / 0) (#50)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 01:57:51 PM EST
    ...a couple of days ago:
    If they think Pope Francis is a liberal, wait until they meet jesus.
    Good to see Rush still stirring the Benghazi business, no wonder the R's can't let it go, their pope won't.

    LOL, exactly (5.00 / 4) (#59)
    by ruffian on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 04:06:54 PM EST
    they think they just have an image problem and say insensitive things, when in reality they have a policy problem and ARE insensitive.

    He wants Republican men (none / 0) (#81)
    by Politalkix on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 06:21:53 PM EST
    to cry in public like him to show their sensitive side.

    I hope the speaker means that he will not allow any more name calling of Democrats like Pelosi, Warren or HRC. If Republicans get called out for being obstructionists or not understanding women voters, they should only show sad faces and tears in public and say their feelings have been hurt.

    I can certainly live with that.


    I'm with (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 06:48:35 PM EST
    you. If they AT LEAST don't call Warren a socialist wh*re and Hillary a hag at least we're moving in the right direction. That being said the crux of their problem is that their issues are bad for most people.

    Does he also expect (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Zorba on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 07:16:25 PM EST
    Republican men to visit a tanning bed, or use the inferior self tanners that he seems to use?
    Orange Republicans!  Yes, that's the ticket.     ;-)

    I Always Thought... (none / 0) (#99)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 08:06:43 AM EST
    ...orange people were the result of spraying.

    Orange you glad (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 08:29:32 AM EST
    Zorba straightened you out?



    It could well be (none / 0) (#107)
    by Zorba on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 11:17:53 AM EST
    a bad spray-on tan.
    OTOH, maybe Boehner just eats way, way too many carrots, which can also turn your skin orange.

    Are there carrot martinis? (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 12:31:47 PM EST

    Oh, yuck! (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Zorba on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 01:17:04 PM EST
    Although I guess you could pour vodka in your carrot juice.

    V8 is a Stample in the Very Yummy... (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 01:36:31 PM EST
    ...Katz's Holy Mary, aka a their brand of a Bloody Mary.  

    The best 6am breakfast in town when you have been up all night, it's like a salad that keeps you drunk.  Better than a B12, but never turned me Boner Orange.

    Did I just create a new color, John Boehner Orange ?


    Democrats (none / 0) (#116)
    by Politalkix on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 12:49:14 PM EST
    feeding him carrots and not using the stick?

    Oh, now they tell us! (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by oculus on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 03:17:11 PM EST
    Nelson Mandela has died (5.00 / 5) (#61)
    by jbindc on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 04:10:40 PM EST
    He was 95.


    Nelson Mandela dead at 95 (5.00 / 6) (#62)
    by ruffian on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 04:10:56 PM EST
    RIP to one of the rare people that can be called hero with no exaggeration.

    I guess (5.00 / 4) (#66)
    by lentinel on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 04:24:48 PM EST
    you've heard by now that Nelson Mandela has left us.

    I honestly don't know what to say.

    I think of him - in prison for 27 years - keeping his sanity during all that cruelty and oppression.

    And winning against all odds.
    Defeating the most vicious of regimes.
    A regime that was supported by many of our banks and businesses.

    One person.


    He was 95 (5.00 / 4) (#67)
    by jbindc on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 04:28:46 PM EST
    It is very sad, but considering everything he went through, he was blessed to have 23 years after getting out of prison to do the good he did and to enjoy and embrace life.  He got the best revenge against his captors - prison didn't kill him, but catapulted him on to great things.

    For me Mandela now lives... (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by gbrbsb on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 04:38:26 PM EST
    up there with the likes of Ghandi... and that's a damn big shoe to fit! Mandela is dead, long live Mandela.

    What a wonder (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by christinep on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 05:18:08 PM EST
    Nelson Mandela--truly, one of the greatest leaders ever to walk the face of our earth.  And, beyond the role of leader, Nelson Mandela the man--the sense of forgiveness that he was able to summon and act on has an incomparable quality, while also imparting an example for all of us.

    He was a man for the ages in our lifetimes; today, the ages receive him.  


    Uh oh (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by jbindc on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 05:21:03 PM EST
    Does smoking pot cause man boobs?


    Few studies have examined a direct causative effect between smoking marijuana and gynecomastia. A report in 1972 made the initial connection between cannabis and gynecomastia. This study is contrasted with a 1977 survey of U.S. Army soldiers which showed no association between smoking marijuana and gynecomastia. This study was limited, however, due to its very small sample size.

    The legalization of marijuana in some state could make it easier for researchers to determine the exact effects of cannabis use on hormone levels, gynecomastia and other bodily functions. If a true link between smoking pot and gynecomastia does exist, then we should expect to see a spike in gynecomastia treatments in those states which have legalized marijuana.

    Interestingly, according to ASAPS, the number of men undergoing surgery for gynecomastia nationwide rose nearly 30% from 2011 to 2012.

    So can smoking pot really give you man boobs?

    Probably. Although the association between marijuana and gynecomastia hasn't been conclusively proven, it appears very plausible. For this reason, the majority of plastic surgeons I've consulted with routinely inquire with their gynecomastia patients about cannabis use and recommend they stop smoking pot immediately.

    So for now, if you have moobs, it's probably best to put out that joint.

    Moobs...too funny jb, (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by fishcamp on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 05:44:09 PM EST
    but that isn't going to stop me, in fact at my age a different body shape could be good since the gym hasn't changed anything.  What about you kdog?  Are you afraid of getting moobs?

    Oh, no! (none / 0) (#77)
    by Zorba on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 05:50:23 PM EST
    Kdog, are you paying attention?   ;-)

    I know! (5.00 / 3) (#79)
    by jbindc on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 05:57:24 PM EST
    Between the hormones in the city's water supply (from all the females taking hormones and birth control), plus pot, we might have a whole generation of New York males who look like Dolly Parton!  :)

    Don't forget Milk... (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 01:21:17 PM EST
    ...and all those hormones, but fear not, the braziere or the bro will do the trick and I am pretty sure Frank Costanza never smoked weed(3:30 mark).

    I drink lots of milk (4.00 / 1) (#127)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 02:38:27 PM EST
    Hasn't helped me yet!

    LOL... (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 09:01:44 AM EST
    I have the opposite problem actually...what I self-deprecatingly refer to as the concave chest. Not so much as pecs, never mind moobs;)

    What bugged me out about the article is men getting plastic surgery to remove moobs...strange days we're living in Sister.


    The living wage calculator (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Politalkix on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 11:03:50 PM EST
    A little bit of good news (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 11:20:02 AM EST
    Economy added 203k jobs in November, unemployment rate dropped to 7%

    The U.S. economy added 203,000 jobs in November, according to government data released Friday morning, continuing several months of solid gains and raising hopes that the recovery is finally ready for takeoff.

    The Labor Department report also showed the national unemployment rate fell to 7 percent. This time, the decline reflected a pickup in hiring rather than a shrinking labor force. An estimated 455,000 people joined the workforce in November.

    In addition, those who already have jobs got a boost last month, as well. The average work week increased, and average hourly pay went up 4 cents. Over the course of the year, wages have risen 2 percent.

    "This is just a clean sweep," said Stuart Hoffman, chief economist for PNC Financial Services Group. "It's a very good report. It's across the board."

    Thanks to everyone... (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by Dadler on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 11:23:07 AM EST
    ...who offered such sweet and caring words to me yesterday. I am truly appreciative. Life is good, and so are me and moms. Finally.  Peace, y'all.

    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 209 (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by Dadler on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 12:01:58 PM EST
    Here (none / 0) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 05:45:54 AM EST
    it was 74 degrees yesterday and it's supposed to be warm again today. So here in Atlanta we are not freezing.

    82 today here...pretty dang nice (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by ruffian on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 04:08:35 PM EST
    I only brag because I hate the weather 85% of the rest of the year.

    Mid-50's today... (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 09:07:42 AM EST
    in the NY, only we're supposed to be freezing.

    Mother Nature...my heating bills thank you!


    Mid-50s here in Western NY as well (none / 0) (#52)
    by jondee on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 02:15:17 PM EST
    Obamacare (none / 0) (#2)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 07:22:46 AM EST
    Just the opposite, actually. (none / 0) (#6)
    by Anne on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 08:44:52 AM EST
    It was in the mid-50's at 7:00 am, and we're expecting to get up to near 70 by this afternoon.  By Sunday, though, they are calling for mixed precipitation - sleet/snow/rain - so temps will be falling, but not as severely as seems to be happening in other parts of the country.

    It's gotten so there's no point in "putting away" one season's clothes as we move into the next, not when you get stretches of spring/summer-like weather in December, and it can be snowing at baseball games in late April.

    Same in Philly as in Maryland (none / 0) (#7)
    by Peter G on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 08:56:28 AM EST
    So, as between Denver and the mid-Atlantic, temperatures on average are normal, right?  Nothing to worry about.

    Yes, just heard from my (none / 0) (#63)
    by sj on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 04:14:07 PM EST
    friend that it is better than perfect weather for the lighting of the Washington Monument in Mt. Vernon neighborhood. Which means there won't be parking for many, many blocks.

    You're getting the weather we had last week. It looks like y'all may escape what we are having now. Which you really want to do...


    Aspen Times says it's minus 16 degrees (none / 0) (#8)
    by fishcamp on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 08:59:18 AM EST
    with 12' of powder snow up there.  That used to excite me but it's 78 degrees down here and there's a big Grouper bite happening now.  Also saw several offshore boats caught many sailfish yesterday.  One boat out of Bud n' Mary's Marina had 18 sailfish flags up.  Those sails head down here when it gets cold up in Zorba's neighborhood.  I should probably go over to the Everglades and help with the whales that are stranded but I'm not on that approved list of helpers.  My skiff is smaller than those whales.  Also with the extreme high tides we're having the poor confused whales keep swimming deeper into the Everglades.  Very sad.

    Sad to see beached cetaceans (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by ragebot on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 09:16:36 AM EST
    Same thing happened last year.  The pilot whales are often mistaken for porpoises since they are fairly small.  I often see them in the harbor and Sisters Creek, especially when the tide gets low and they can trap schools of mullet.

    That's 12 inches not 12 feet of snow. (none / 0) (#10)
    by fishcamp on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 09:04:26 AM EST
    fish (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by CoralGables on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 09:19:46 AM EST
    up above Anne mentions
    putting away one season's clothes as we move into the next,

    What is this different season thing of which she speaks? I know baseball season and not baseball season. You know seasons based on the arrival of kingfish or dolphin. But what does that have to do with clothes?

    btw, the forecast here for the next 5 days is a low of 68 and a high of 80. Running would be more fun if we could get that low down to 60.


    There are only two seasons (none / 0) (#19)
    by ragebot on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 10:25:47 AM EST
    Open lobster season and closed lobster season.

    And there are only two food groups, the group you put cheese on and the group you put chocolate on.


    What about butter? (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Anne on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 10:45:32 AM EST
    I'm pretty sure that's one of the food groups, too.

    Bacon (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by Zorba on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 11:02:48 AM EST
    That's another food group, it's got to be.   ;-)

    You can put chcolate on bacon (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by ragebot on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 01:20:39 PM EST
    or you can put cheese on bacon.  But I would not put both on bacon.

    Do You Put Cheese... (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 11:19:57 AM EST
    ...or chocolate on lobster ?

    See? that's why butter has to be a (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Anne on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 11:30:10 AM EST
    food group - who can eat lobster without it?

    Here's a recipe for something I'm dying to make, maybe for little Christmas gifts:

    Whiskey, Caramel, Marshmallow and Bacon Bark

    Figure I'd have to make a lot of it, though, unless I want people fighting over it...


    Oooohhhhh! (none / 0) (#38)
    by Zorba on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 12:51:26 PM EST
    Sounds decadent!  Yum!

    Lobster mac and cheese (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by ragebot on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 01:19:02 PM EST
    is a well known dish in the Florida Keys.  There are others as well.

    This is strange but true ragebot... (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by fishcamp on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 05:31:05 PM EST
    spell check tried to change you into a rarebit again so don't be mad if it happens.  The mac and cheese thing down here is a weird one.  Thanks to Zorba I now use Kalamata olive oil on lobster instead of butter.  And of course Tzatziki dip with everything except cheerios.

    LOL! (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by Zorba on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 05:49:25 PM EST
    You have my permission to use butter on your lobster, fishcamp.  We do, although I mix a bit of butter with olive oil. And we don't put much on.
    Olive oil has monounsaturated fats (hurray, Mediterranean diet!), but it's still fat, and we're still talking 100 or more calories per Tablespoon.  And we are trying to watch the calories and lose some weight.
    A little fat goes a long way.  It does add a lot of flavor, but you can go way overboard.
    We have a friend who always says "Grease makes it good."  LOL!

    Usually (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by ragebot on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 05:53:26 PM EST
    I just boil them whole, split them, remove the digestive track, and eat them straight up.  Sometimes I grill them with a little olive oil and add some Key Lime juice if the trees are bearing.

    The Mrs Sarc and I have "evolved" to (none / 0) (#92)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 11:36:38 PM EST
    flavoring our lobster butter with garlic and/or horseradish.

    I just got a BC, mask, fins, etc., but haven't made the plunge to diving for my own bugs yet.

    My buddy wants me to go, and he picked up a 5 lb'r last week...


    I catch lobster (none / 0) (#106)
    by ragebot on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 10:56:50 AM EST
    in less than ten feet of water, often in less than five feet of water.  Last time I was at Boca Grande I found a ledge I could stand on top of and it was waist deep at low tide.  If I stepped off the ledge it was maybe neck deep.

    First afternoon I caught three lobster.  Bad idea, my eyes were bigger than my stomach.  The next afternoon I only caught two and I had room for an Italian ice for desert.  Eating frozen desert in the tropics in September is a true joy.


    I've dived a couple times in water that (none / 0) (#110)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 11:33:33 AM EST
    didn't need a wetsuit, pure heaven.

    I'm a warm water diver (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Yman on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 09:46:03 AM EST
    Only dive when I manage to get places that are warm enough to dive without a suit.

    I think I've finally figured out that I much prefer snorkeling to diving, anyway.  Unless there's something really worth seeing that's deeper than 20-25 ft., you don't have to worry about all the gear and it just feels better/more natural to wear only fins and a mask.


    Snow and sleet is scheduled for today (none / 0) (#9)
    by MO Blue on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 09:01:16 AM EST
    Outlook not much better for the weekend. Highs in the mid 20s and lows in the teens.

    Wouldn't you know that this is the weekend when I have a lot planned.

    Senior Christmas trip scheduled for tonight was canceled . Holiday dinner with a good friend planned for Friday and birthday lunch for another friend on tap for Saturday are now on a let's see basis. More snow currently scheduled for Sunday puts a city house tour with dinner afterward in jeopardy.

    Oh well I guess we will have to see what actually materializes.

    Brrr (none / 0) (#14)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 10:15:56 AM EST
    It's an unseasonably cold 23 degrees here right now.  But the sun, low in the sky and assumably shining through the frosty air is a glorious rich golden color.  Makes me want to brave the ice and go take pictures.

    Oh Pease do it! (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by DebFrmHell on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 10:18:18 AM EST
    Oh Pease do it!  Oh Pease do it!  Oh Pease do it!  

    Chuckle (none / 0) (#82)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 06:29:25 PM EST
    It soon got cloudy.  But I think I'll take the camera out tomorrow, when it's theoretically supposed to be clearer.

    It's a whopping 2 degrees warmer west of you (none / 0) (#28)
    by shoephone on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 12:06:47 PM EST
    in North King County, and cloudy too. But, jeez, down to about 15 degrees overnight and will be the same through the weekend.

    How I hate being cold. At least I'm not in minus Farenheit like the mountain westerners and those folks in Minnesota!


    Did you have a chance (none / 0) (#65)
    by sj on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 04:17:25 PM EST
    to get your fleece sheets, yet? Thanks for reminding me about them by the way. Although it made it extra hard to get up when the temperature was -9 (yup, nine below. Not a typo this time).

    I'm pretty sure the new fleece sheets (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by shoephone on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 06:08:04 PM EST
    are going to be coming my way in the form of a Christmas present... ;-)

    -9 below 0. You're a brave soul.


    You have no idea :) (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by sj on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 07:42:38 PM EST
    I must really love my dog. By the time I took her on the doggie mile it had warmed up to -7. Yikes!

    At least there was no wind.


    And, honestly, (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by shoephone on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 10:42:50 PM EST
    your dog must really love you too! I'll bet she didn't complain a bit.

    I love my "boys", but there is no way (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by vml68 on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 10:35:57 AM EST
    in he11 they would get a mile long walk in those temps.
    I guess it is a good thing they cannot read. I keep telling them that nobody could love their dogs more than I love them. If they could read your post, they would call me out for being a liar!

    Btw, for some reason I thought you lived in Baltimore.


    The trick is layers. (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by sj on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 11:43:03 AM EST
    LOTS of layers. 9 degrees below zero with no wind isn't as dreadful here as it would be back east. The lack of humidity makes it more tolerable. And you should see me when I take her out; my friend said I look like I'm ready for the Iditarod.

    Believe it or not, after the initial shock of the temperature change, I enjoy the walk as much as she does. There isn't any ice on the street or sidewalk -- it's been too cold for the snow to melt during the day.

    And you remembered correctly. I did live in Baltimore, but I moved back to Colorado this summer.


    I know (none / 0) (#83)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 06:29:57 PM EST
    Somebody needs to tell old man weather that we aren't supposed to get this cold!

    Well, bundle up, Teresa (none / 0) (#96)
    by shoephone on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 01:39:48 AM EST
    because Saturday night the lows are expected to be anywhere from 11 to 18 degrees. Criminy. I don't remember December being this cold since...I lived in Boston.

    S'posed to get up to 60 (none / 0) (#25)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 11:08:37 AM EST
    in part of PA today. That midwest weather is going to meander this way over the weekend.

    Hero of the Day... (none / 0) (#34)
    by kdog on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 12:31:57 PM EST
    Meet a Mr. Robert Carr II out of Ohio.  My new hero.

    Of course he's born to lose, but ya gotta love his style dude.

    Sunny and 55 degrees here. (none / 0) (#51)
    by oculus on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 02:14:20 PM EST
    High of 91 in Yangon. Very humid.

    Hope springs eternal... (none / 0) (#87)
    by desertswine on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 07:28:18 PM EST
    Eddie "the eagle" Edwards plans a comeback.

    Eddie the Eagle is a great guy. (none / 0) (#89)
    by fishcamp on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 08:31:01 PM EST
    I filmed him a few times in the past.  He's going to Garmisch, Germany to jump and practice.  We used to dread going there because it always rained.  They do have a U.S. Army base and we were allowed to go  to the PX and buy real American supplies like tooth brushes, toothpaste, razor blades and Jack Daniels.

    Donald (none / 0) (#100)
    by CoralGables on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 08:27:30 AM EST
    Looks like Chris Petersen is getting ready to back up the truck for a big payday and a move to the Huskies.

    World Cup Draw... (none / 0) (#111)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 11:40:34 AM EST
    today...we are so f*cked.

    Perennial power Germany, Portugal with the best player in the world Ronaldo, and Ghana who have beat us in 2 straight World Cups all in our group.  Oh well, there's always 2018.

    Ouch (none / 0) (#113)
    by Dadler on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 11:59:59 AM EST
    That's not a draw, it's a draw and quarter. But it's a corrupt sport anyway, maybe some organized crime "wagers" will bring us a win. ;-)

    Always a long-shot to advance... (none / 0) (#117)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 12:53:22 PM EST
    but since we seem so much improved under Klinsmann I had high hopes for this Cup, now this draw.  Bummer.

    On the bright side, past performance aside we should be able to handle Ghana, and Portugal has been known to sh*t the bed in World Cups.  Maybe we got some 1980 USA Hockey Miracle in us.


    Tough (none / 0) (#120)
    by Politalkix on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 01:10:27 PM EST
    but some other groups are also brutal.
    Spain-Netherlands-Chile(Australia is weaker)
    Italy-England-Uruguay-Costa Rica (the weaker team)

    I would prefer group G than be put with any 3 from Brazil-Mexico-Croatia-Cameroun or Spain-Netherlands-Chile or Italy-England-Uruguay.


    I'd classify... (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 01:27:25 PM EST
    Italy/England/Uruguay as this Cup's Group of Death.  That's one brutal group.

    World Cup ski racing (none / 0) (#119)
    by fishcamp on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 12:58:10 PM EST
    tonight on MSNBCS  @ 10 pm EST.  They're racing on the Birds of Prey course in Beaver Creek, Colorado.  It's part of Vail.  All the Euros will be there and hopefully Bode Miller from the U S.  It's on for three nights and the run is steep and fast.

    Thanks for the reminder (none / 0) (#133)
    by Dadler on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 04:10:43 PM EST
    I need to set my DVR, my boy loves watching it. It's about time for our trip to Tahoe, when my wife and son ski at Heavenly, while dad with the lame leg plays poker at the Montbleu or Harvey's. (And thanks for the kind words yesterday, my friend. If I'm ever in southern Florida, expect a call. As it stands, I'll be in St. George up north in FL next summer, with the Dixie branch of my lovely screwy family.)

    Some fast-food customers... (none / 0) (#118)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 12:55:32 PM EST
    have all the luck...why doesn't this ever happen to me at Wendys?  

    Speaking of fast food... (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 01:34:33 PM EST
    Ronald McDonald has to put his big red feet in his big red mouth again because of their highly offensive McResources website....check out their tipping etiquette guide for employees.

    Is management over at Mickey D's that out to lunch (pun intended) or are they getting kicks out of mocking their wage slaves?


    Some of the comments at your link: (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 01:56:42 PM EST
    I pay my au pair in stolen McNuggets.

    Dammit. Now I want a McRib and fries but I'm stuck in the house because of this ridiculous ice storm. Thanks Obama!

    And, in response to the lower portion of the Ronald photo included in the article:

    Is Camel Toe going to be on the Dollar Menu?

    That Ronald... (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 02:50:51 PM EST
    ...wouldn't get anywhere near my kid, if had one, that dude freaked me out even before your camel toe comment.  Too funny.

    If the Ronald gig... (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 03:37:56 PM EST
    falls through for that guy, he has a future as the bearded lady.