NFL Sunday Open Thread

This week's Amato and Armando Show November 8, a discussion of the "NFL Culture" plus our picks:

The picks (disagreement in BOLD, J for John, A for Armando): GIANTS -7 1/2 over the Raiders, BENGALS -1 (J), RAVENS +1 (A), RAMS +10 (A), COLTS -10 (J), TAMPA BAY +3 over Dolphins, EAGLES +1 over Packers , BEARS Pick (A), LIONS Pick (J), STEELERS -3 over Bills, TITANS -13 (J), JAGUARS +13 (A), SEAHAWKS -4 over Falcons, PANTHERS +6 (J), NINERS -6 (A), CARDINALS -3 over Texans, BRONCOS -7 (J), CHARGERS +7 (A), SAINTS -7 over Cowboys.

Open Thread.

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    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 183 (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Dadler on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 10:00:39 AM EST
    He had his own congregation, soon he'll have his own
    trial date. (link)

    And the rest of last week's comics:

    Vol. 182
    Vol. 181
    Vol. 180
    Vol. 179
    Vol. 178
    Vol. 177

    More than halfway to my goal of 365 comics in a calendar year. And doing it all at AN AXE LENGTH AWAY ("clear-cutting the inhuman condition and subverting the e-card paradigm...")

    Go Niners! Go Chargers!

    Saw this on Fox...pretty funny (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Slado on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 08:58:58 AM EST
    Putting things in perspective: March 21st 2010 to October 1 2013 is 3 years, 6 months, 10 days.  December 7, 1941 to May 8, 1945 is 3 years, 5 months, 1 day.  What this means is that in the time we were attacked at Pearl Harbor to the day Germany surrendered is not enough time for this progressive federal government to build a working webpage.  Mobilization of millions, building tens of thousands of tanks,  planes, jeeps, subs, cruisers, destroyers, torpedoes, millions upon millions of guns, bombs, ammo, etc. Turning the tide in North Africa,  Invading Italy, D-Day,  Battle of the Bulge, Race to Berlin - all while we were also fighting the Japanese in the Pacific!!  And in that amount of time - this administration can't build a working webpage.

    I would only add we also invented the nuclear bomb in that time.

    I'd just advise the folks at Fox (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by jondee on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 09:19:49 AM EST
    to be careful: all that counting and mathematics
    is a potential slippery slope leading toward science and secularism.

    Yep, the stuff that made this (none / 0) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 09:40:33 AM EST
    country great!

    For you. jondee, I'll explain (none / 0) (#44)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 09:41:56 AM EST
    That is sarcasm.

    Really? (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 10:05:03 AM EST
    You put some kinda crap like this up on Veterans Day?............sigh

    I think (3.67 / 3) (#74)
    by lentinel on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 12:46:21 PM EST
    that there is no valid analogy between the incompetence displayed by the inauguration of the website and the shining competence of the US military in prevailing in WW2.

    But I don't see that Slado's comment is in any way demeaning to Veterans.

    The treatment that Veterans are accorded by the government and society at large - that I find demeaning - an ongoing shame through successive administrations.

    I see our society as a continuation of the master-slave model in which our country was founded.
    The masters are people like the Bush family. Nothing to worry about. Nothing at all. And they have the other 99% of the American people working for them and fighting to protect them while they fiddle and pursue their recreational activities.


    Hi Polly (3.00 / 2) (#175)
    by lentinel on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 08:29:10 AM EST
    As articulate as usual...

    Uh, the Obama family (none / 0) (#136)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 05:41:34 PM EST
    hasn't fixed anything...

    I mean if you want to play that game.


    Competence during WWII (none / 0) (#146)
    by MKS on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 07:18:32 PM EST
    We had our share of miscues and foul ups during WWII.  Market Garden was a high profile failure. The Airborne drops on D-Day were a confused mess--perhaps actually helping more militarily than if they had been dropped in the right place because of the confusion and ensuing indecision they helped trigger in the German forces.  

    But we were persistent....


    MT, as a veteran (none / 0) (#53)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 10:49:32 AM EST
    I see nothing offensive in Slado's comment.

    Of course you still have TriCare. Hope you can keep it.


    You wanna talk Tricare? (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 11:05:35 AM EST
    Before healthcare reform they denied all of us all the time.  They denied my son the surgery that saved his life twice.  When Shriners decided to pay for it, they chose to finally insure him.  They denied my best friend, who has RA, a new medicine to control her out of control RA when her husband was deployed to Bosnia and she had 3 children to care for.

    Tricare was no great prize prior to healthcare reform.  It might have been largely free (I had copays prior to war, all officer families did), but the healthcare it provided was lousy. While the reform was underway all the Tricare insurers really shaped up, but as soon as the legislation was passed they began to look for loopholes to screw soldier families again so had to also become legally ACA compliant.  If Tricare is allowed to devolve back onto the track they were on prior to reform, who wants that crap coverage and the healthcare it leads to?  Not me


    Your son's experience is exactly why ... (5.00 / 3) (#61)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 11:45:13 AM EST
    ... I support the mission of Shriners Hospitals for Children with an annual donation. Two-thirds of their young patients would otherwise regularly be denied by providers the level of quality critical care they ultimately receive from the Shriners.

    They took a big hit in the economic crash (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 12:24:23 PM EST
    Thank you for putting your hard earned dollars into their work.

    I don't imagine that ACA compliance is (none / 0) (#57)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 11:17:26 AM EST
    going to stop any insurance company, even Tricare, from looking for loopholes in order to keep more of the premium dollars they're collecting.

    I mean, this is what they do; that's the business model, so unless and until that changes, either through a commitment to serious and sustained regulation, or by adopting a single-payer, Medicare For All system, this is the kind of thing we're all going to be dealing with.

    If the foundation is cracked/crumbling, it won't matter how lovely the new house built on it is, because eventually it's going to collapse.


    Insurers are looking for loopholes (5.00 / 0) (#60)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 11:30:28 AM EST
    Tricare has something other insurance coverage did not have and that was more Congress critters on the line for what they were doing.  I have had no problems with them since they had to become ACA compliant.  And insurers must bid on new contracts with Tricare, it isn't a forever thing.

    Congress critters are responsible now much more responsible for what insurers do to everyone now.  That is a political win. And the fact that they agreed to work to fix the broken system and in good faith were given the opportunity only justifies a public option now without any destroying capitalism fault being laid on any Democrat.

    I disagree with all your doomsdaying.  This fight is not over.  And I will not waste my damned time on all this self righteous goes no place I told you soing.  It's ph*cking useless unless your goal in life is to be smug while others suffer.  Knock yourself out.  I'll stay in the real trenches thank you very much.


    Yes, because our esteemed (5.00 / 3) (#78)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    members of Congress have done such a bang-up job hewing to the regulations imposed on the financial industry with Dodd-Frank...oh, wait - they've spent nearly every waking minute weakening it, in spite of the fact that the financial industry very nearly brought the country to its economic knees.

    Yeah, I'm sure we can count on them to keep up the good work of regulating the insurance and pharmaceutical industries...

    You'll stay in the "real trenches?"  Golly, that doesn't sound self-righteous at all.  


    Everyone has very selective memory (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 02:57:27 PM EST
    About what this fight has entailed.  A pivotal day for me was when the Robert's court declared ACA Constitutional.  That's hard to take back now.  The whole world was shocked too.

    We are free to fight for an improved ACA, but with a political sellout court like the Robert's court a public option would have most likely meant ACA would have just as magically been declared Unconstitutional.  So while we are all armchair quarterbacking.........

    This was always going to be a fight after any legislation was passed, and it will always be one.  Just like defending any other program that serves the greater good in this country is.  I have come to embrace that I will either die fighting or at the very least on high alert.

    I will focus on solutions though.  I will argue for solutions.  I will waste my time fighting for solutions, not perpetual roastings designed to make me feel oh so smart.


    Oh, so I see how this works... (4.00 / 4) (#110)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 03:28:09 PM EST
    you're "fighting for solutions" but everyone else is just perpetually roasting to make themselves feel smart.  I mean, "oh so smart."

    Good to know.

    Because lord knows no one else has ever had to fight to get something covered or paid.  No one else has ever made phone calls, sent letters, written letters to the editor.  No one else has any kind of life outside this blog where they advocate and agitate and try to get their representatives to listen to them.

    No, there's no one here doing any of that.  We're just waking up every day with a hate hard-on for Obama, thinking up new ways to get our digs in.  

    Yeah, that's probably it, because it just isn't possible that anyone could have problems of their own, or be close to people who are dealing with serious, life-altering issues.  No one can even relate what they're going through because you're right there to jump in and make sure we all know that, to turn the Harbaugh family's mantra on its head, "who has it worse than you?  NO-BODY."

    I used to have a friend like that.  She could never just tell me she was sorry to hear my kid was sick, or I'd had a bad day.  No, she had to tell me how much sicker her kid was and how much worse her day was.  Or if I had good news, hers was better.

    She always had to win, no matter if it was something no one would ever want to win at.  Sometimes, I would make stuff up just to see if she'd take the bait - and she always did.  That's when I knew this was no friendship - this was about using me to make herself feel better.  

    I'm over that, and I'm over you.


    Anne, you show up here (1.83 / 6) (#112)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 03:31:59 PM EST
    Everyday and make precious few posts that aren't lengthy wordy rants about how much Obama sux.  If you want to focus on solutions that's going to take more investigation than just reading and linking to rants.

    "Fighting (5.00 / 2) (#176)
    by lentinel on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 08:39:00 AM EST
    for solutions" is a wee bit vague.

    What can we propose to a middle-class household that suddenly finds their policy canceled, their doctor no longer available, and a mandate requiring them to spend an additional 5 or 6 thousand dollars a year on a new policy?

    How do you propose to "fight" for them?

    The government, thanks to Obama and his buddies on the republican and democrat right, have given us a program in which the middle class is being called upon to support everybody else. As opposed to, for example, a system in which the government provides healthcare through equitable taxation, everybody gets basic care and chooses their own doctors without difficulty.

    I don't think it is just hot air to proclaim articulately the problems inherent in this mish-mash - "constitutional" or not.

    But to return to my question: How do you propose we "fight" - except to threaten to throw out the sobs who laid this upon us?


    Tracy, I have to say (4.40 / 5) (#121)
    by Zorba on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 03:57:52 PM EST
    that I am more than extremely glad that you were able to get Josh the appropriate care, and that the passage of the ACA helped you get that care for Josh from TriCare.  This is great for Josh, and for your family, no doubt about it.  And I appreciate the fights that you had to go through to get him that care.
    But you also must realize, as Scott commented earlier, that there there are others who are not doing nearly so well because of the flaws in the ACA.  
    My son is getting kicked off of his current insurance plan, and I believe that Anne has said that this is also happening to her daughter.
    Just as we respect what you went through with your son, please also respect and think about what others are going through to try and get our kids, other relatives, and friends care because of the huge problems with the ACA.
    Namaste, my sister.  I wish you and your family well.

    I am really sick of all this bull (1.86 / 7) (#130)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 05:30:24 PM EST
    And selective reality.  Before ACA if you had great coverage it was only because you were lucky.  Most people dealt with losing their great insurance in the face of serious costly illness.  And then they uninsurable after that.  I'm glad you are happy for me Zorba, but for grace of God though you and everyone else missing their "great insurance" go YOU.

    You can be as sick as you want, Tracy (4.00 / 8) (#142)
    by Zorba on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 06:29:06 PM EST
    But I am also sick of the bull from all of those who think that the ACA is the best thing that ever came down the pike.
    I have tried to be understanding about your own problems with your family, but apparently, you have no understanding and empathy for those who may be much worse off now.
    Well, go YOU, too.  I am done with you.  Have a nice rest of your life.

    And that is WHERE you are full of it (2.00 / 8) (#144)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 06:51:50 PM EST
    None of us are saying it is perfect.  It will have challenges and need to make changes just like every single fricken program does.  What has been going on a Talkleft has been an Obama hunting evisceration, and I have noticed that like 60 minutes fact checking can be deemed a horrible and unnecessary inconvenience.

    I notice that when both you and Anne have to face certain truths " you are done with me".  It's kind of comical.  I happen to live in the same country as you both do so chances we aren't done with each other at all.


    No Offense... (5.00 / 5) (#96)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:58:54 PM EST
    I am positive everyone here is happy that ACA is helping your family, but you always seems to be blind to the fact that it is hurting other families.

    You call Jim this and that, which I agree, but what if Jim wasn't Jim and was a concerned citizen who just realized the policy he could barely afford is going up a couple grand, more than say his car might be worth.  IOW a small fortune to this made-up person.  Would say they are heartless and out to cause pain because they desperately want to go back to the point in time in which they could afford insurance ?

    You keep acting like it's got a flaw or two, when in reality it's so flawed that it could cost the D's the Senate.  No need to shut down the government when you have both houses and I guarantee ACA would make it with Congress in R hands.

    The legislation you love so much, at this point, is defective enough IMO to ensure it's own demise by allowing republican to run on it in 2014.  If that happens, au revoir, because they won't have to shut down the government down if they control all of Congress.

    Even if it's a complete swipe, meaning that it helps and as many people as it hurts while keeping the entire cost the same as a whole (which is very doubtful), don't you have any compassion for the families that you basically swapped places with ?

    There is a counterpart somewhere to your gain.  Insurance companies aren't going lose a dime over it and Obama is nutz if he believes the system is going to save any money.  They can't manage to develop a fairly easy webpage, but we are to believe that they are going to someone how mange to streamline health care and make it more efficient and save us billions, please.  So far the website hasn't save a GD sent, cost nearly $100M and counting.  there isn't a company int he world spending that kind of cash on a website, but we are to believe they are master of efficiency.

    I am fine if my rates go up so long as it's helping others, but not everyone can absorb the increased rates.  Some are simply going to have to take a pass or get cheap insurance that will most likely leave them hanging when they actually need it, like Tricare.

    And I think that is why a lot of us are criticizing it, not because it helps a lot of people, but because it's screwing others, not as many, but I don't suppose the people getting screwed really care about the stats when their kid needs a surgery and the low rent insurance they purchased decided to not cover the tab.  that would be a very hard pill to swallow if their old plan would have covered it but was cancelled because it wasn't ACA compliant.

    Don't think for a minute that ACA isn't creating some Tracy's out there who will be basket cases because their 'new and ACA improved' insurance is denying their kid surgery they needs to remain alive.

    What do you say to those people ?


    1st of all (1.00 / 3) (#108)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 03:21:15 PM EST
    The insurance lobby and CEOs are on the record promising Congress and the President that they would work to fix our broken system and honor the legislation and now they stab those same people and the nation in the back.  How is that we can't run on that now?  We worked with them in good faith, THEY BROKE THEIR PROMISE.  As if you could control the Republicans and what they have become and all the forces at their disposal early out?  This war is fought a battle at a time.  There was no single battle that was ever putting us in the clear early out.

    So pout and point at Obama, and focus on how pathetic he is every day.


    Oh my gawd (5.00 / 5) (#113)
    by MO Blue on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 03:37:39 PM EST
    don't tell me that the insurance companies are acting like.......... insurance companies. Who would have thought that they would ever do that.

    Blue, if only you just loved Obama more... (4.00 / 8) (#122)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 04:00:49 PM EST
    that would make everything okay.

    ::rolling eyes::


    I tried clapping harder (5.00 / 5) (#128)
    by MO Blue on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 04:46:51 PM EST
    but it didn't change the nature of the insurance industry or fix the federal website.

    OH NO! (5.00 / 2) (#177)
    by lentinel on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 08:44:16 AM EST
    The insurance lobby and CEOs BROKE THEIR PROMISE?

    Who could have possibly foreseen that?
    Who could have anticipated that a bunch of greedy mthrfkrs would act in their own self interests instead of in the interests of those for whom they have unbridled contempt?

    One thing I don't think you grasp is the extent to which Obama is in the sack with those very CEOs you despise.

    Or do you think that he is just dumb enough to have taken those bstrds at their word?


    Good One Tracy... (4.63 / 8) (#127)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 04:38:44 PM EST
    ...and all the CEO's of Big Tobacco swore up and down their product wasn't bad for people.

    What is your point ?

    The government is suppose to hold them accountable ?  Where is Obama with Wall Street, Military Contractors, the Banks, and now the Insurance Companies ?

    I really hope you aren't depending on the US government, Obama right now, to hold the insurance accountable.  If they weren't beholden to large corporations we would all have single-payer health care.  So I wouldn't hold my breathe on that one.

    The only reason corporations and the multitude of partnerships exist is to limit liability, both financial and personal.  IOW, the US government, or a class action lawsuit, can never take away more than they can afford.  But lucky for them and many campaign contributions, that is simply not an issue.


    Professional bawl babies (1.57 / 7) (#145)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 07:09:14 PM EST
    You didn't get your pony.  You will have to work for and vote for what is needed, welcome to democracy plus capitalism.

    Yes, Because of the 20 Some Posts... (5.00 / 4) (#179)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 09:53:40 AM EST
    ...you never actually address one criticism, just post after post of some version of this:
    Professional bawl babies.
    You didn't get your pony.  You will have to work for and vote for what is needed, welcome to democracy plus capitalism.

    Not sure what a 'bawl babies' are, but people who refuse to address the issues while using personal attack after attack certainly should qualify as some version of 'bawl babies'.

    You keep mentioning the word fight without any actual detains.  Please explain to me how 'we' fight to get a better website, how we fight to ensure people who are losing their current plan, are able to keep them.

    From where I stand, Obama, like you, simply refuses to acknowledgment that there are any problems.  So while you are explaining this also define 'we' in your posts.  Because you seem to mad at everyone here and Obama isn't going to fight for a problem he can't even acknowledge.  

    I am confused about who is going to fight when no one is even acknowledging any problems.


    It'll all be fine. (3.86 / 7) (#148)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 07:25:52 PM EST
    Rainbows and glitter ponies with big soft dewey eyes and huge lashes at least, if you quit holding back and just venomously attack everyone who questions how wonderful things are.

    Let it all hang out. Spit fire and daggers at least. Show 'em what yer made of. Foot stomping is good too.

    All it needs is a little tweak here, and a little tweak there, and someday in the far incremental future dreams are made of it'll be the best thing since sliced f'in bread. If you're an insurance company salesman, that is.


    Edger, I often agree with your stance on things (1.57 / 7) (#150)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 07:33:18 PM EST
    But hating Obama will not fix healthcare or head off future challenges.  Demonizing Obama will not fix healthcare or head off future challenges.  Meeting up everyday to talk $hit about Obama will not fix healthcare or head off future challenges.

    It is going to take something more than heartily embellished lizard brains getting to what our nation needs and its people deserve.


    Where did I mention Obama in my comment? (4.00 / 4) (#151)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 07:34:53 PM EST
    Do you have a quote?

    Every day (1.80 / 5) (#153)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 07:36:19 PM EST
    Your postings are anti Obama.  And frankly, it is really boring too.

    You can't answer the question (3.67 / 3) (#154)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 07:37:24 PM EST
    I see.

    I am not going there (1.80 / 5) (#156)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 07:40:56 PM EST
    I'm not spending all night with you on this because it isn't worth that.  You know what you have been about lately.

    You don't have to spend all night (4.00 / 4) (#157)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 07:42:43 PM EST
    It was only one very simple question.

    Oh, and there was also the one link you probably refuse to read too. But I can't expect too much, I suppose.


    And just to ease your mind (3.67 / 3) (#160)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 07:47:53 PM EST
    The link I gave you mentions Obama... nowhere.

    It does have a lot of numbers in it though. Maybe I'm just a numberhater?


    Add your maturity level (3.67 / 6) (#149)
    by nycstray on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 07:32:21 PM EST
    on this subject, they should all try and aspire to?

    Seriously, who here was looking for ponies?


    It is a meme (5.00 / 0) (#152)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 07:35:05 PM EST
    Incorrectly applied, I would say (4.00 / 4) (#158)
    by nycstray on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 07:43:10 PM EST
    because this is not the pony crowd . . .

    *waves at PK* (4.50 / 8) (#159)
    by nycstray on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 07:44:26 PM EST
    right on cue, baby!

    I imagine (4.00 / 4) (#161)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 08:01:30 PM EST
    it's awful for some that there isn't a rating that makes comments vanish? Lol.

    And I did not get everything I wanted in the (1.67 / 6) (#155)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 07:39:18 PM EST
    Healthcare reform, but I got things I desperately needed.  I am willing to begin the fight for the rest, but that is going to take a hell of a lot more maturity, intelligence, and savvy than is currently on the table here right now.

    Perhaps you should refocus. On Incognito. (none / 0) (#168)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 09:23:29 PM EST
    Apparently MT missed this (none / 0) (#174)
    by jbindc on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 06:35:42 AM EST
    The WH likes to spin that it's all the insurance companies' fault, but not really.

    Three Pinocchios.

    Blaming the insurance companies can only go so far. First of all, the administration wrote the rules that set the conditions under which plans lose their grandfathered status. But more important, the law has an effective date so far in the past that it virtually guaranteed that the vast majority of people currently in the individual market would end up with a notice saying they needed to buy insurance on the Obamacare exchanges.

    The administration's effort to pin the blame on insurance companies is a classic case of misdirection. Between 75 and 95 percent of the problem stems from the effective date, but the White House chooses to keep the focus elsewhere.

    But keep pushing the Big Orange talking points!


    ACA creates winners and losers (none / 0) (#107)
    by ragebot on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 03:12:36 PM EST
    But lots of govt programs create winners and losers.  The important thing to determine is if more winners than losers are created, and to a lesser extent if the program is fair to the losers.  There is also an issue of legality.  It is easy to say Roberts ruled Obamacare legal, but a 5-4 disputed Supreme Court decision falls a little short of settled law.  Plessey was an example of what some folks thought was settled law.

    So far the jury is still out on the distribution of winners and losers Obamacare created.  But one thing is clear.  The losers are complaining loudly and longly to at least ten Democratic Senators who are also complaining longly and loudly to the prez.

    Not to dismiss Scott's question but there may be a lot more folks asking a lot more questions than the relatively small number of folks who have suffered a hit in their coverage.

    To answer Scott's question I would reply 'life is not fair'.


    Uh-oh, now you've done it (none / 0) (#184)
    by sj on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 12:00:03 PM EST
    You've said something nice about her family. Get ready for some spew.

    I've found that when one (not just me) expresses compassion about Josh's struggles and MT's care for him, the immediate response is to make that person the next target for whatever accusations she's floating at the time. Usually she is saying that Obama sux.

    The threads are filled with her saying that.


    Whoops (none / 0) (#185)
    by sj on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 12:01:48 PM EST
    spoke way too late. It already happened.

    Didn't say it met your needs (none / 0) (#71)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 12:38:08 PM EST
    OTOH I have a friend who sings its praises...

    Prior to TriCare the family could go on base or off, depending. Worked quite well.


    Air Force has much better healthcare (none / 0) (#82)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:27:00 PM EST
    Via Tricare than Army because they contract out to private sector.  If they are Air Force I believe it, if they are Army....bull.

    What really super sucked Jim with my son (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 11:20:30 AM EST
    Because he was covered under Tricare it prevented him from getting the surgery.  If we had had no insurance Colorado Medicaid would have paid for him, they had already paid for three other children in order to save their lives, but kids with insurance who were being denied by insurers had to go on a waiting list.  The estimated wait time for Josh was one year and I had to re-apply every 90 days or he would be removed from the list.  A local nurse volunteered to renew my paperwork for me because I was such an emotional mess I could not keep track of that and fight Tricare while simultaneously seeking other help.  So piss off you evil scum Jim, and the hell your party and your belief system already put this family through!

    TriCare, Jim, is about as useful as ... (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 12:02:15 PM EST
    ... as any insurance scheme you might concoct with your grandkids in your garage. It's one step up from a joke.

    My late brother had cystic fibrosis, and when he required emergency hospitalization in Rockford, IL during a visit with our paternal grandparents, TriCare refused to cover those costs, claiming the my mother should have instead taken him to Great Lakes Navy Hospital, some 75 miles away.

    Don't be so cavalierly dismissive about other people's personal experiences and anecdotes, Jim. Because I'd offer better than even odds that you'd have been screaming to high heaven about the innate unfairness of it all, were MT your own daughter and it was your grandson who was being denied that critical care.



    Donald, has anyone ever told you (1.00 / 3) (#72)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 12:40:29 PM EST
    to mind your own business?? That you aren't the boss and you act like an utter **&()???

    If not, please let me.


    Blow away, Jim. (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:04:12 PM EST
    Gawdalmighty, but I swear that someone in your household must be regularly lacing your prune juice with saltpeter and vinegar. How else to explain your insufferable dickitude, which you bring here ALL the time?

    Donald, why do you think MT can't handle (1.00 / 2) (#134)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 05:39:37 PM EST

    I mean, really. Grow up and learn your place.


    Exactly... (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 11:06:44 AM EST
    Proof that the Obama haters are harder to defeat than the entire Axis army combined.  So if Obama is FDR in this analogy, where does that put conservatives who are hell bent on defeating Obama ?  

    Hint, it ain't Switzerland.

    Did Fox mention anything about conservatives and their isolationists views in the 40's and how those views actually aided an enemy who would have been much easier to defeat had they not stopped us from getting involved while watching them conquer Europe and the South Pacific ?

    I would be interested to see Fox run the same idiotic analysis on Iraq and the economy, because let's face it, the war was longer and the speed at which the republican party crashed the economy was a pretty damn scary.


    It's amazing, especially given ... (none / 0) (#76)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 12:49:51 PM EST
    ... the GOP's overall sorry history in the field of foreign policy, that the media and even the general public continue to regularly defer to the Republicans' so-called "expertise" in foreign affairs. It's a myth sewn from whole cloth.

    It was Republican imperialism that brought about the tragic overthrow of the heretofore friendly Hawaiian monarchy, and the islands' subsequent 1898 annexation by the United States.

    It was Republican adventurism which led President McKinley to renege on his promises regarding the Philippines' independence following the five-month-long Spanish-American War of 1898, which proved the immediate catalyst for the tragic three-year long Philippine-American War (1899-1902), which ultimately cost fifteen times as many American lives as did the war with Spain, and killed nearly a quarter-million Filipinos.

    It was Republican political obstructionism in the U.S. Senate that prevented the United States from ever ratifying the 1919 Treaty of Versailles, which President Wilson had personally negotiated with the Allies and Germany to bring about a formal end to the First World War.

    And it was Republican isolationists who vigorously contended during the 1940 elections that Nazi Germany could not be beaten militarily, and who pressed President Roosevelt to abandon Great Britain -- unsuccessfully, thank heavens! -- and instead negotiate a non-aggression pact with Adolf Hitler, much as the Soviet Union had done in July 1939. Then, they actually denounced their own party's presidential candidate, Wendell Wilkie, that same year when he went on record to support FDR's Lend-Lease program to aid the British war effort.

    Suffice to say that the historical record belies Republican contentions regarding their collective political judgment in foreign policy. I've long argued that with rare individual exceptions, the Republicans in general have been loathe to lead from the front on almost any major issue of historic importance since Abraham Lincoln and the U.S. Civil War.

    But my oh my, how quick they are to rewrite that history and claim for themselves the lion's share of credit for those accomplishments, once the smoke finally clears and the matter is settled. The GOP, first and foremost, is the party of revisionism.



    I don't think many folks today (5.00 / 2) (#132)
    by NYShooter on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 05:36:21 PM EST
    understand just how isolationist the American public was prior to WW2. It wasn't just a vocal minority, but, rather, a very large majority of the public, and Congress. And, through their mouthpieces in Congress, even after the fall of all of Western Europe, save Great Britain, they demanded we stay out. To give an idea of just how intransient they were, they not only wanted us to abandon England to Hitler, they insisted we not spend a dime even on contingency plans, or preparation plans "just in case."

    In other words, they wanted us to do what Stalin had done: enter into a non-aggression pact with Adolph Hitler,

    or, put another way,

    Surrender to the Nazis.


    Many of us here, especially after some particularly odious ruling is made, like to quote the saying, "elections matter." Many fewer, unfortunately, agree with the corollary, "so does Leadership."


    You are right (none / 0) (#137)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 05:43:34 PM EST
    And it was the Repubs who were isolationists.

    Funny how things change.


    Seriosuly ? (none / 0) (#196)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 12:52:50 PM EST
    One of the biggest FDR conspiracy theories is that he allowed Pearl harbor to happen so we could get involved.  Lots of folks on the right believed and still do that FDR would do anything to enter the war.

    Your belief that nearly no one want to be involved is inaccurate.  Maybe in like '38, but after they started invading countries that sentiment turned around and by the time Hitler was in France, looking at England the only thing holding the US back were the R's and the Nazi sympathizers/supporters.  FDR wanted to help and the R's wanted to let Hitler and Hirohito do there thing and stay as far away as possible.

    We were manufacturing the heavy equipment and sending it droves to England.  Plenty of folks wanting to stop the Axis long before we were publicly involved.

    Both gained tremendous resources by conquering other nations, had we nipped it when we should have we would not have had to chance japan back through the south pacific or German through nearly all of Europe.


    Almost a year before Pearl Harbor (none / 0) (#198)
    by jondee on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 01:29:19 PM EST
    the U.S ambassador to Japan sent a cable back to the states in which he said (paraphrase) "the rumor making the rounds is that if Japan attacks Pearl Harbor will be the target". For what it's worth.

    Treaty of Versailles (none / 0) (#125)
    by ragebot on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 04:18:57 PM EST
    is not a shining example of how to end a war.  Most historians blame the treaty for causing WWII.  Folks as disparate as A.J.P. Taylor and Hugh Trevor-Roper both dis the treaty.  Not to say most of your post lacks merit, but there is not reason to think not ratifying the treaty was a mistake.

    ... precisely because the United States failed to ratify and adopt it, which emboldened our allies Great Britain and France to impose severely punitive sanctions upon post-Imperial Germany.

    You and I often (none / 0) (#181)
    by ragebot on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 11:03:29 AM EST
    wind up having to agree to disagree.  Wilson had no Republicans on his delegation to Europe to hammer out the Treaty.  There was massive public sentiment against Wilson's ideas about international matters.  There were also some in Europe who did not like the Treaty.

    Problem was there was lots of public sentiment on both sides of the pond for a harsh treaty.  The result was the Treaty is often blamed for WWII.

    The reality then as now is that Germany is the big boy in Europe and it is a fools errand to try and pretend otherwise.


    There was also a lot (none / 0) (#183)
    by jondee on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 11:59:24 AM EST
    of talk in the thirties about a hyper-militarized Germany being a "bulwark against Bolshevism"..

    And to Ford, GM, IBM, Coca-Cola etc those shirts may've been brown, but their money was green. All that investment capital that poured into Germany certainly didn't hurt the Nazi cause..    


    I have (none / 0) (#69)
    by lentinel on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 12:35:04 PM EST
    no brief for the fercockt Obomba website, but really, it's not as if the US was not prepared and armed and even itching to enter the war before the attack on Pearl Harbor.

    And that goes for the machinations of Monsieur Oppenheimer & Co. Some date that fiery undertaking from 1939 when Einstein wrote to FDR about his fears that the Nazis were already exploring the means to purify U-235 in order to produce an atomic bomb.

    It is not necessary to resort to such hyperbole in order to be convincing about the stupendous incompetence of the gummint in Warshingtin.


    Sure it is (none / 0) (#129)
    by Slado on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 04:48:16 PM EST
    It is simply amazing that this administration couldn't build a website with millions of dollars and 3 years.

    It shows to me that they simply don't give a damn or are incompetent.  

    I thought Obamacare was in trouble for all sorts of other reasons but I would have never dreamed this supposedly brilliant tech savvy president couldn't build a website.

    A total joke.


    Say what? (none / 0) (#135)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 05:40:19 PM EST
    lentinel: "[I]t's not as if the US was not prepared and armed and even itching to enter the war before the attack on Pearl Harbor. [...] It is not necessary to resort to such hyperbole in order to be convincing about the stupendous incompetence of the gummint in Warshingtin."

    Jeez, what sort of history classes did YOU take? Here are just a few things you should know about the United States military effort during our country's first six months of involvement in the Second World War (Dec. 1941-June 1942):

    (1) 21 ships, constituting nearly 20% of the U.S. Pacific Fleet, were either sunk or very badly damaged in the Japanese attack on Oahu, including seven of its eight battleships. Fully 90% of our Pacific air forces on Oahu and in the Philippines were completely incapacitated or destroyed within one week of the initial Japanese assaults upon American forces throughout the Pacific region. It was purely fate that our carriers were on maneuvers two hundred miles south of Honolulu at the time of the attacks, and were not also bobbing at anchor in Pearl Harbor or Lahaina that Sunday morning.

    (It was then not uncommon for the U.S. Pacific Fleet to sometimes anchor in the "Lahaina Roads," or the channels between Maui, Molokai and Lanai. The attacking Japanese task force sent scout planes over both West Maui and Honolulu in the hours just prior to the attack to determine the fleet's exact location, and was fully prepared to assault Lahaina had the American vessels been found there, rather than at Pearl Harbor.)

    (2) At the time of the Pearl Harbor attack, fully one-quarter of the U.S. Army's entire standing and mobilized ground forces were then based in the Philippines. That entire command was subsequently lost when Bataan and Corregidor were surrendered to the Japanese in April and May, 1941.

    Again, that defeat could have been an incredible long-term disaster. Because had the Japanese actually had designs on either Hawaii or California at that point, there was really very little if anything that would've stood in their way, save for a patchworked Pacific Fleet then desperately trying to shield Hawaii from what was assumed to be an inevitable Japanese invasion.

    We were indeed lucky that Japan's immediate war aims proved to be much more limited in scope and range than we might have otherwise anticipated, given the overwhelming totality of initial Japanese victories over the first few months of the war across both the Pacific and Indian Oceans.

    (3) The German Kreigsmarine (submarine fleet), which had already been inflicting significant damage upon our lifeline to Great Britain, began to redeploy to stations immediately off the eastern U.S. seaboard at Hitler's formal declaration of war on Dec. 8, 1941. The United States, having had no previous and direct experience of modern naval war on its own shores, did not impose a black-out of east coast cities for four months, which allowed the U-boats to pick off ships almost at their leisure as they exited American harbors at night, silhouetted against city lights.

    In one three-week period from January 13-February 6, 1942, five German U-boats sank nearly 200,000 U.S. shipping tonnage off the east coast between Boston and New York without suffering any corresponding losses, before temporarily withdrawing to their bases in occupied France to reprovision and reload.

    Within three months, Nazi U-boats were at our throat, sinking American shipping faster than U.S. industry could build the replacements, which threatened to strangle our country's war effort before we could even get started. (Some 25,000 American sailors would eventually lose their lives in the Battle of the Atlantic.)

    Now, does that sound like a country fully prepared for war to you?

    FDR actually did his best to ready the country for the coming conflict in the year prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor, but he could only do so much in the face of a recalcitrant and isolationist Congress, and a grievously divided public opinion which based much of its opposition to intervention in Europe upon some serious misconceptions and wishful thinking regarding the true nature of the looming Axis threat.

    Ultimately, the United States triumphed in World War II because of our large population, our overwhelming industrial capacity and logistical capabilities, and the fact that save for several Japanese military attacks on Alaska and Hawaii, the bulk of the war's fighting occurred overseas and left our country physically unscathed.

    But all that capacity and potential would have been rendered essentially meaningless, had not our allies been able to shoulder the brunt of the fighting against the Axis for nearly 30 months, which allowed us to quickly and effectively re-boot our industry from civilian use to military production, while also mobilizing some 16 million men and women in our armed forces for the war effort.

    We further spent the better part of 24 months in undertaking an enormous overseas deployment of ships, planes, weaponry and personnel, which ultimately proved itself to be an overwhelming and unprecedented projection of military power in that world conflict. By May 1944, we had nearly three million (mostly untested) armed personnel in southern England being primed for the invasion of France. Another 800,000 were massed in Hawaii for the invasions of the Marianas, the Philippines and Okinawa. And a further 500,000 sailors were either serving on or in support of over 6,000 U.S. Navy and merchant ships tasked to carry out these American initiatives.

    Once our country's full weight was brought to bear upon both Germany and Japan in the summer of 1944, the outcome of the war was no longer really in doubt. And I very seriously doubt that any government so "stupendously incompetent" -- as you so snidely and smugly suggested FDR's administration was -- could have pulled off such a remarkable logistical feat to bring two world powers to their knees simultaneously.

    But on this Veterans' Day in particular, we should also acknowledge and recognize the very heavy price our soldiers, sailors and airmen paid in a relatively short period for that near-singular ability to tilt the scales so decisively, because nearly 70% of all U.S. casualties in World War II were suffered in that final intense year of fighting.

    That both you and Jim enjoy a right to say the sort of sometimes unfathomable nonsense you respectively offer here, is immediately and directly due to the costly sacrifices they made on behalf of us all.



    Donald, as a someone who (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 05:48:52 PM EST
    spent 10 years in Naval Aviation I find your comments typical.

    Come back and let us know when you actually made a personal sacrifice.


    You don't have to join (5.00 / 2) (#190)
    by jondee on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 12:11:36 PM EST
    the military to make "a personal sacrifice". What about people who work in hospice care; spending long hours doing their utmost to bring comfort to the dying who sometimes have no one else?

    Cut the stereotypic, chest-thumping, flying leatherneck b.s. Veteran's Day or no Veteran's Day.


    Please Expalin Your Sacrafice... (none / 0) (#195)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 12:33:34 PM EST
    ...beyond being in the military.

    There many who really have sacrificed and there are many who work in offices and never left/leave US soil.  As a navy man myself during DS I worked the flight deck in the Persian gulf, but no real sacrifice because I got paid, which included combat and dangerous pay and paid zero income taxes, and never saw a lick of combat because the war wasn't on the high seas.

    I would be very interested in hearing about you experiences and sacrifices.


    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 184 (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Dadler on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 09:22:43 AM EST
    Handsome Johnny is sent off to war, then sent home to be neglected. (link)

    Volume 183

    Volume 182

    Happy Veteran's day to my father, brother, two stepfathers, and every other vet out there who's been used and abused by the system.


    I am making French Onion Soup (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by Zorba on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 12:47:36 PM EST
    From scratch.  Caramelizing onions in one big pot, making stock in the other.  From venison, not beef.  Could be the father or grandfather of the deer that just ate our apples.    ;-)
    This will take hours.  Sometimes I wonder why I bother, but homemade from scratch is just so darned good.

    Made butternut squash soup (5.00 / 3) (#79)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:13:00 PM EST
    yesterday - oh, it is soooo good.

    I split open the squash and scoop out all the gunk, then drizzle with olive oil and sprinkle with some chipotle sea-salt and roast in the oven until tender.  I peel a bunch of garlic cloves and stick those in the "well" to roast with the squash.

    Then I dice up some onion and celery, shred some carrots and more garlic and sweat in some olive oil with a little cumin and more of the chipotle salt.  

    When the squash is cool enough to handle, I peel it, chunk it and throw it in with the rest of the veg and add about a quart of good chicken stock.  Bring it up to a simmer, cover and let it go for about 20 minutes.

    Then, it gets the immersion blender treatment, along with some finely diced chipotle chiles in adobo and a good handful of fresh cilantro.  And a few glugs of cream.

    Yum, yum, and did I mention...yum?  


    That soup sounds tasty! Will have to give the (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by vml68 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 03:52:17 PM EST
    recipe a try soon.

    Speaking of recipes...
    I was looking up recipes for Soujouk(armenian sausage) yesterday and found one that uses nylons as the casing.
    First step in the recipe, mix all ingredients except for stockings,LOL!!!!


    OMG! This sounds so good, Anne. (none / 0) (#81)
    by caseyOR on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:22:05 PM EST
    What a tasty winter soup.

    The great thing is that you can adjust the (5.00 / 3) (#93)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:54:34 PM EST
    heat to suit your taste - I like it with a bit of a kick, but you could easily leave out the hot stuff and still have a great soup.

    Plus it is loaded with vitamins.

    Saw your comment about the latest with your sister; I remember from years ago with my dad that it seemed like nothing so much as constant crisis management - and you become so dang-blasted hyper-aware of every last little symptom it's a triumph of will just to try to be "normal," like in the "before" stage.  Is it a symptom?  Is it one you can ignore, or one you have to call about - again?  What does it mean?  Should I google, or not?

    So...if you can, stock up on some good, nutritious comfort food, and as many comforting routines as you can.  Help your sister to be just your sister, not the sister-with-cancer.  My dad told me the hardest part of having cancer was that people stopped seeing "him," and it was just all about a disease - and he didn't want to be that.  I stripped "how are you?" from my lexicon, because it was too easy for him to see it as "doesn't anyone want to know anything but how I am?" So, I'd call and just go with things like, "hey, Dad, I made some of that applesauce you liked so much and got some fresh cider - how about if the kids and I bring it over?" or "hey, dad, you'll never guess what the girls said at dinner last night!"

    Maybe we were just kidding ourselves, but I tell you, it got us both out of ourselves a little bit, and that was like freedom.

    I think of you both often and hope you'll pop in from time to time and let us know how things are going.


    Ditto what Anne says (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 02:54:34 PM EST
    about your sister; it's a main theme of the movie, One True Thing -- a great movie but perhaps now too close to home.

    All the best to your sister and to you for being there for her.


    Silly question (none / 0) (#83)
    by Yman on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:29:08 PM EST
    Did you peel the outside of the squash before you roasted it?  I only ask because I usually try to leave the skin/rind on vegetables whenever possible, particularly if they're homegrown.  I was wondering whether it would be too tough even after roasting and blending.

    Sorry (none / 0) (#85)
    by Yman on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:33:03 PM EST
    Just realized you said you peeled it after roasting.  Was the skin/rind soft after roasting?  Wonder if I could leave it on ...

    It gets soft (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by nycstray on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:44:29 PM EST
    but it's not something I would put in my soup.

    I make a roasted squash soup also, with whatever varieties of winter squash I have handy, and I toss all the outer matter after roasting into the compost bin. Seeds get saved (prior to roasting) for next year's garden, so you are still using the whole squash ;)


    I wouldn't - I like to think whatever (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:56:39 PM EST
    nutrients and value there is in the peel gets transferred to the flesh, so I don't feel bad about putting it on the compost pile.

    Oh, my, yes! (none / 0) (#106)
    by Zorba on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 02:59:02 PM EST
    Butternut squash soup.  The heat from the chiles is great!
    We have tons of butternut squash from our garden.  I use them to make squash pies (as opposed to pumpkin pies- we prefer the butternuts).
    And squash soup.  And squash casseroles.  Some of them sweet, with maple syrup and pecans.  And some of them savory, with bacon and cheese.
    We love our butternut squash!

    I made (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 05:35:25 PM EST
    my first ever batch of apple butter the other day. I was going to give it for Christmas gifts but my husband may wipe it out before then. He was talking the other day about going to get more apples so I could make some more. Why does every thing he thinks of doing always involve more work for me it seems?

    My mother makes up apple sauce for her and (5.00 / 3) (#143)
    by nycstray on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 06:45:49 PM EST
    my 30yo niece/family. She hands me a big bag of apples so I can make my own. She really liked the plum sauce I gave her and was happy I was making more and hoped I would give her more . . .

    What is wrong with this picture? :)


    Greetings, TLers. (5.00 / 6) (#80)
    by caseyOR on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:20:21 PM EST
    Still in the Land 'O Lincoln. Right now I am in a little exam room at the Emergency Room of the hospital. My sister's nose started to bleed late last night, continued through the night, and this morning when she called her doctor they said to go to the ER.

    So, here we sit, waiting to see if the cauterizing of her nose worked, waiting for her lab results to see if she needs another transfusion of blood or platelets or both.

    She recently remarked that dealing with cancer is a full-time job. She's right. It is work, hard work, and involves lots of overtime.

    Let me just say, about Da Bears, that Cutler had no business playing in yesterday's game. Now he is hurt even worse than before.  That is all I have to say on the subject of Da Bears. :-)

    Greetings to you. Casey (5.00 / 3) (#86)
    by shoephone on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:33:58 PM EST
    Sending you and your brave sis good vibes from the Great Northwest.

    And a much harder job... (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:50:13 PM EST
    without loved ones by your side...your sister is blessed in that regard, as are all of us.  Hang in there Cap'n!

    Took my aunt out to lunch Saturday...her cancer came back bigtime after a year or so in remission.  Doctors say it's just a matter of "living with cancer" now, with the chemo keeping it at bay, but no chance of remission anymore.  But she looked great and her spirits are good...I had to make a point to drive out to see her, she missed my cousin's wedding because she was in the hospital, and I didn't want to wait till Christmas. Just in case.  

    I don't know if I'd have her strength and courage to keep fighting...but she wants to live to see a grandkid, and I ain't betting against her.


    Hey Mr K, just wondering if you have heard (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by vml68 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 03:30:50 PM EST
     from Mile-Hi. Was thinking of him since it was his birthday a couple days ago. Also, just had a friend go through a kidney transplant and that made me think of him too.

    I have not... (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 03:39:34 PM EST
    and have thought about him from time to time too...I just hope he found a better hobby and it's not his health keeping him away.  

    Casey, as others have said, your sister is very (none / 0) (#116)
    by vml68 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 03:44:38 PM EST
    lucky to have you. You have been in my thoughts.

    New news in Virginia AG Race (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by CoralGables on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:50:50 PM EST
    The Dem now in the lead by 99 votes

    Thanks for (none / 0) (#100)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 02:45:55 PM EST

    Stupid deer (4.50 / 6) (#5)
    by Zorba on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 04:12:23 PM EST
    We were going to pick the rest of our apples today to put in the root cellar.  We had already harvested about a third of them, or a little more.
    But we had the electric fence turned off for a couple of days because of some broken wires and two broken insulated handles (the handles that hook up to the fence gates).
    So Mr. Zorba went out to fix the fence (I had gotten him the replacement handles at the farm store yesterday).  And the d@mned deer had eaten all the remaining apples.  Every single one of them.
    We are going to enjoy even more than usual, eating the venison that we have in our freezer.  And it's good meat.  I will be going down to the freezer, gazing at the venison, and saying "Die, Bambi, die!"

    Come on Politalkix (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by CoralGables on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 04:22:42 PM EST
    I may be a pacifist and wouldn't shoot a deer if I was starving, but that was damn funny.

    I tend to ignore (4.50 / 8) (#9)
    by Zorba on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 04:57:00 PM EST
    Politalkix's down ratings.  She is just being p!ssy because I down rate some of her political comments, which for the most part I do not agree with at all.  She is way too much of an uncritical Obama-lover for my tastes.  No big deal.  She is entitled to her opinions, as I am to mine.
    We no longer hunt ourselves, although we used to in our younger days.  We do allow a few selected neighbors to hunt on our property, though, because the deer are incredible pests.  And these neighbors reciprocate by giving us a whole lot of venison, already packaged, labelled, and frozen.
    It is lean, tasty meat, and we enjoy it.

    PS I am a pacifist, too.  But a pacifist primarily regarding humans and warfare, drones, etc.  When it comes to vermin and garden pests, all bets are off.  Mice, ground hogs, deer.  And so on.   ;-)


    The "1" rating (1.00 / 6) (#14)
    by Politalkix on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 05:45:31 PM EST
    is for making an unfounded allegation against me.

    Same back (4.33 / 6) (#17)
    by Zorba on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 06:10:13 PM EST
    atcha, Politalkix.
    Have a nice day.

    CG (1.00 / 6) (#13)
    by Politalkix on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 05:41:02 PM EST
    I can understand how many may find the story funny and get the point about the humor, however rating "2" was the easiest way for me to express disapproval for an action without appearing preachy. I constantly negotiate :-) with deers that enter our backyard to eat everything we planted.

    Yard Deer (none / 0) (#16)
    by MKS on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 06:08:41 PM EST
    A guy  I knew lived in the hills of the Sierra and was an avid hunter of deer and other game.

    He was complaining one day of the deer in his front yard eating everything in sight.  I asked him why just didn't shoot them--he was a hunter, after all.

    He said they were "Yard Deer" and his kids liked them.  You couldn't shoot "Yard Deer."


    Don't know what the rules are (2.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Zorba on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 06:44:30 PM EST
    in his state, but here in Maryland, it is, in fact, illegal to hunt too close to people's houses.  
    So, no, you cannot legally shoot "yard deer."  But as soon as they are far enough way from your residence, then, yes, they are fair game.
    My kids were never terribly fond of or concerned about the "yard deer" themselves.  But then, we were raising beef cattle, they were in 4-H, and they grew up knowing that there were certain animals that were going to wind up being killed and eaten.

    My son-in-law and his bow have taken (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 09:12:36 AM EST
    two deer from the woods on our property so far this year, but considering there are hundreds and hundreds of them moving through the area, it doesn't even make a dent in the population.

    We've had to completely fence our vegetable garden with 8-foot netting (plus wire at the bottom to keep out the rabbits - although the raccoons did manage to get in and eat the corn), and also put netting around the two rows of grapevines we have.

    Having dogs helps a little - but only when they're out, otherwise, not so much!


    LOL. (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by shoephone on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 04:32:40 PM EST
    You can't win for losing, Z.

    Ain't it the truth? (3.50 / 2) (#11)
    by Zorba on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 05:09:49 PM EST
    OTOH, the venison is even more tasty because the deer have been eating so much of our and the neighbors' fruit and other crops.
    If we don't have as many apples as anticipated, at least we have a whole heck of a lot of venison to enjoy!

    "Die, Bambi, die!" (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 04:45:20 PM EST
    Mme. Zorba, this one's for you.

    That was terrible Donald... (none / 0) (#32)
    by fishcamp on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 08:02:25 AM EST
    but funny.

    Ooh, Zorba, Zorba, Zorba (none / 0) (#169)
    by NYShooter on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 11:34:51 PM EST
    or, anyone else out there who has the answer:

    This may sound lame, but, I'm dead serious. Please, please give me the formula for making perfect, easily peelable hardboiled eggs.

    First, a note: I used to always have a half dozen perfect hard boiled eggs in the fridge at all times. But, something happened three, or, four years ago, and, everything changed. Now, for the life of me, I can't get the darn things out of their shells without butchering them all to he!!.
    Here's what I used to do, and, they always came out perfect. Simple, boiled eggs for about 20 minutes. Then poured out hot water, and ran ice cold water over the eggs for a couple of minutes, Then, when I cracked them, I peeled them under running cold water, and, they always came out easily, and perfectly whole.

    But, now, something happened, I don't know if they raise the chickens differently, or feed them some kind of wacky food, or, whatever.
    Anyway, I've googled half my life away trying to reproduce what I used to have, but, no luck. No matter what method I try, it's like they crazy glued the whites to the inside of the shell.
    I'm not a newcomer to the world of hardboiled eggs. I've tried everything printed out there.

    Nothing works!

    Please, tell me something I haven't tried yet. I will be indebted to you for the rest of my life. Wouldn't you like to have a little "shooter doll" all to your own? Trust me, I have no shame when it comes to hardboiled eggs.

    HELP, Please.


    Are you using fresh eggs? (5.00 / 2) (#171)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:18:18 AM EST
    I've found (and I think it may be a fact) they are harder to peel because of the skin under the shell etc is too tight. As the egg ages, it gets less so. There's a more intelligent way to explain this, but it's late  :P

    I buy my eggs from the guy at the farmers market and other sources where they are fresh, and yes, I started butchering eggs up also. What I do now, is I buy more than I need for eating/cooking and put aside the ones I want to hard boil. I do the same the next week, and at that point, I boil the ones from the previous week. Much better results. I've done mixed batches in a pinch, and the fresh ones def show themselves from the older when peeling.

    What may have changed for you, if you didn't change sources, is they may have changed how they process the eggs at the facilities. Perhaps they are flash cooling them right off the bat, which is keeping them in a fresher state longer? It's the only thing I can think of, aside from stores getting their eggs more local and them being fresher because they hit the floor sooner.

    Oh, and you don't need to boil for 20min. Bring eggs to boil (totally covered w/water), boil gently for 1 minute and then turn off (or low/warm) if you want and let sit for 11-12. then rinse with cool water to stop the cooking.


    I have found (none / 0) (#173)
    by jbindc on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 06:33:02 AM EST
    As nycstray says - use older eggs.

    I also take them immediately from the stove to a bowl with ice cubes and water.


    Shooter, (none / 0) (#178)
    by Zorba on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 09:50:30 AM EST
    Stray and jb are correct.  You're getting fresher eggs, which are harder to peel.  I haven't been successful at peeling eggs neatly since we started getting our eggs locally.
    You'll also notice when you fry a fresh egg, its yolk is nice and rounded, and the white doesn't spread.  If the yolk is flat and the egg white spreads out thinly, then it's not a fresh egg.  The yolk of a fried egg doesn't break as easily, either, when its fresh.
    Fresh is better, even if they're not as pretty when you peel them!    ;-)

    o.k. just one question (none / 0) (#199)
    by NYShooter on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 05:24:58 PM EST
    when you set the fresh eggs aside to let them "age," do you do it in the fridge, or at room temperature?

    I have a little basket in the fridge (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 07:42:25 PM EST
    In the fridge! (none / 0) (#200)
    by Zorba on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 06:25:08 PM EST
    I don't want you to get food poisoning!

    The deer population (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by ragebot on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 06:47:55 PM EST
    is way too high.  All their natural predators have been killed (wolves, bear, big cats) and they have predators except man.  Deer are eating all the food in some areas and at times are reduced to stripping bark off trees.

    I am no hunter (anyone who has ever killed, cleaned, and butchered a deer will understand) but am a conservationist and understand the need to control the deer population.


    Yep. (3.67 / 3) (#20)
    by Zorba on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 07:04:52 PM EST
    You are correct.
    No other predators except us.  They are devastating the natural habitat in the state and national parks and forests and other natural areas, which is not good.  Plants and trees are being destroyed, and other creatures that also depend upon these plants and trees are finding it harder to exist.
    Besides our concern for our own crops which we grow for food, we have over 40 acres of woodlands, which we try to maintain in its natural environment.  We do not allow tree cutting there, and we do our best to "let it be" as much as possible.  Except for deer hunting.  The deer do, indeed, strip the bark off of young trees, resulting in their deaths, even though it would seem that there would be plenty of other food for them.  But there are a whole lot of deer.  Way too many for the habitat here.

    So, you would favor (none / 0) (#21)
    by MKS on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 08:14:14 PM EST
    greater efforts to reintroduce the wolves beyond just Wisconsin, Yellowstone and Southern New Mexico?

    Yes, in fact (4.00 / 3) (#22)
    by Zorba on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 08:15:19 PM EST
    I would.

    Absolutely! (none / 0) (#24)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:50:32 AM EST
    That would be way cool, as well as an open season on wolf hunters to thin the herd.

    If they get Obamacare (none / 0) (#54)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 10:55:38 AM EST
    they'll have contraception.

    Maybe that'll slow down the growth.



    Zorba, you can purchase a (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 07:40:11 AM EST
    spray called Repels that you can spray around the base of the tree and it will keep the deer away.
    I buy it a Lowes. Walmart also has a version.

    Also works for rabbits, squirrels, dogs, cats, etc around the garden...as well as wild pigs..


    Jim does that Repels (none / 0) (#31)
    by fishcamp on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 07:59:51 AM EST
    keep away those monster cross bred hogs that are seen on that weird hog hunting show on TV?  I wonder if it works on the yard eating hoards of iguanas we have down here?

    Don't know about iguanas (none / 0) (#34)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 08:36:09 AM EST
    But I have a neighbor who had her own private petting zoo and her Vietnamese pigs escaped and went feral.

    Twenty gauge buck did the job on them.


    kinda hard to kill a pig (none / 0) (#41)
    by jondee on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 09:28:34 AM EST
    with buckshot, isn't it?

    You ever killed a pig? (none / 0) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 09:35:12 AM EST
    my car broke down in fly over (5.00 / 0) (#45)
    by jondee on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 09:44:37 AM EST
    country and I took a shot at Bull Conner from a distance. Does that count?

    Heh (none / 0) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 10:46:26 AM EST
    Then the answer is no.

    The way we did it when I was a boy  was to shoot them between the eyes with a 22. That would stun them and we would then hang them by their hind legs and stick a knife in their throw, slit it and let them bleed out.

    That's were the expression, "Bleeding like a stuck hog" comes from.

    No charge for the education, city boy.


    "throw" should be "throat" (none / 0) (#52)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 10:47:45 AM EST
    So In Other Words... (none / 0) (#62)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 11:55:07 AM EST
    ...don't use a 20 gauge with buck shot as you suggested.  Their skin is thick and I unless you are very close,  closer than you should be, that buckshot is only going to get them good and mad.

    Here is Texas, the method they use is trucks at night, spot lights, and rifles with a side arm just in case.  Or at least that is why my ranch owning boss does.

    I believe their is a reality show based on two competing hog elimination companies here in Texas.  And if I am not mistaken, they use horses and dogs to take the hogs alive if they can. LINK

    Feral hogs are smart, fast, have tusks, and generally travel in packs.  

    HERE is the largest hog ever killed in the US, over 1000 lbs.  

    A Plague of Pigs in Texas


    These were Vietnamese Pigs (none / 0) (#68)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 12:34:20 PM EST
    That had gone feral. Buck worked quite nicely, thank you. But then again I wasn't looking to eat them.

    I have no idea as to the skin toughness of domestic pigs. The 22 between the eyes was to immobilize them long enough to get them hung up so the throat could be cut and let the blood drain out.

    Similar to hitting cattle between the eyes with a sledge hammer... Only I think now they use electric shock or a bolt/bullet ...

    But returning to pigs, if jondee had gotten close enough to shoot and hit Bull we would have been rid of both of'em.



    Soon as Jim heard that word (none / 0) (#84)
    by jondee on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:30:58 PM EST
    "Vietnamese" he knew he had to make up fer what he and Newt and Rush and Sean et al ducked out of years before..

    jondee, you lie (none / 0) (#186)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 12:04:44 PM EST
    And you know it.

    I spent 10 years in Naval Aviation.

    Now, you were in the Girl Scouts how long??



    jondee, you lie (none / 0) (#187)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 12:04:44 PM EST
    And you know it.

    I spent 10 years in Naval Aviation.

    Now, you were in the Girl Scouts how long??



    "I spent ten years in Naval Aviation" (5.00 / 2) (#197)
    by shoephone on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 01:17:49 PM EST
    What exactly does that mean? And, as Scott asked, what exactly was your sacrifice? It's pretty clear you never served in combat, unlike my stepdad the tailgunner, who nearly lost his life -- in combat -- a few times. He would laugh at your stock phrase "I spent ten years in Naval Aviation" and say you were a b*llsh*tter.

    What does "I spent ten years in Naval Aviation" mean? What was your role in "Naval Aviation"? And what, exactly, was your sacrifice?

    Do tell.


    All that experience (none / 0) (#192)
    by jondee on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 12:20:01 PM EST
    and you still parrot whatever the chickenhawks say like it came from the burning bush.

    "00" Buckshot, (none / 0) (#65)
    by NYShooter on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 12:18:13 PM EST
    within 50 yards from a 10/12 gauge gun, you'd cut the sucker in half.

    Outside of 50 yds,  better have your Nikes on.


    Sounds toxic (none / 0) (#48)
    by MKS on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 10:14:12 AM EST
    Does it repel people too?

    Only Lefties (none / 0) (#51)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 10:46:46 AM EST
    That explains it, (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by NYShooter on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 12:20:52 PM EST
    is that why you use it as an after shave?

    No, but that's a great idea (none / 0) (#70)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 12:35:14 PM EST
    You been to a Titan's game yet??

    One thing I like about LA (none / 0) (#88)
    by MKS on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:43:18 PM EST
    is the complete nonchalance about having an NFL team.  We do not care.   Every once in a while someone tries to concoct some plan to lure a team here....A big yawn ensues....and nobody wants to use tax money either.

    LA doesn't need an NFL team to make up for an inferiority complex.      


    As a matter of fact (none / 0) (#115)
    by NYShooter on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 03:43:41 PM EST
    been to two, both wins, of course.

    I made a deal with my son: If the T's end up with a winning season I'm gonna get season tickets.

    Feels funny just saying that; with the Giants season tickets are Gold, handed down many generations. And, I can't even count as high as a season ticket would cost on the open market.

    But, everybody's gotta start somewhere; I'm even gonna get a Tennessee license bracket for when I drive up North.

    Hey, let me ask a serious question now.....If I attended one of these Tea Party get-togethers, could I actually buy some "Tea?" I think it would be a Winner in NY. I can see it now: "Come and get your Tennessee Tea!"

    Or, is that the new moonshine?


    The recipes for Tennessee Tea generally (none / 0) (#123)
    by MO Blue on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 04:12:57 PM EST
    call for Jack Daniels rather than moonshine.

    Tennessee Tea recipe - DrinksMixer.com

    1 part Jack Daniel's® Tennessee whiskey
    1 part triple sec
    1 part sweet and sour mix
    2 parts cola


    It took me 14 years (none / 0) (#133)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 05:37:07 PM EST
    to get Bronco tickets.

    When I moved to Seattle they were almost using them as promos. Few years later they were gold. Wish I had kept them....

    Is that a UT license bracket?? If so, I'm impressed.  The wheel shall turn.

    No. You could get some ice tea with sugar added when made....

    Drove through Nashville going/coming from Raleigh for a friend's funeral. I must say I was impressed by the Sunday late PM traffic. Not Denver mousetrap quality but getting there.

    Had some grits for breakfast, yet??


    Yeah, Bronco tickets (none / 0) (#166)
    by NYShooter on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 09:12:41 PM EST
    would've been great. Those fans are nuts; pretty sure it's the depleted oxygen up there. I was driving through the Rockies one night a long time ago. Being really tired, I figured I'd stop in this little old bar for a pick-me-up. Rye & soda, I believe... one sip, and I was on the floor.....horizontal. Nothing like that happened to me before, or since. Anyway, I had a girlfriend a while back who was a craaazy Bronco fan. She told me Elway was the only guy in the world she would cheat on me with. Heh, I guess if she admits it, it isn't really cheating, right?

    Don't know what kind of license plate I'm getting. All I know is its bordered in orange, and, has "Tennessee written on it somewhere.
    I believe the only Tennessee Tea I'll be ingesting is the kind you roll when you're driving. Tennessee cops are nuts, though. I live about ten miles outside of Nashville and, the sirens wailing around here 24/7 make my Bronx seem like a cemetery.

    Now, I've been nice talking about Tn. so far, so, don't get me started on Nashville traffic. And, when I start eating grits I'll be ready for that cemetery.

    BTW, can you smoke grits?

    Oh well, I think I'm getting infected by you sh!tkickers down here, when rolling & smoking grits starts sounding good.

    Time to say....."later."


    Hey, we're getting there (none / 0) (#188)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 12:08:17 PM EST
    You just gotta have some grits for breakfast.

    Cut up your sunny side up eggs and mix them grits.

    My my! That's yummy!


    Hey, we're getting there (none / 0) (#189)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 12:08:17 PM EST
    You just gotta have some grits for breakfast.

    Cut up your sunny side up eggs and mix them grits.

    My my! That's yummy!


    Too Funny!! (4.00 / 3) (#25)
    by Amiss on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 06:12:57 AM EST
    And I feel so deserving! The deer will get all fat and filled out, for you to eat, at least. Payback is hell. I absolutely love venison with a meal.I do so hope you get to enjoy some really good meat and apples, you certainly deserve them.

    Since presumably the venison in your (2.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Anne on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 05:00:10 PM EST
    freezer is already dead, I'd be more inclined to be chortling something about who's getting the last laugh...:-p

    Oh, this year (2.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Zorba on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 05:27:50 PM EST
    Deer hunting for firearms has not even begun yet, although archery and muzzleloader season have been going on for awhile.  Our neighbors do not bow hunt, but they do use muzzleloaders, so they are already out there.
    And in a few weeks, they will be out there with deer rifles as well, shooting the very deer who have eaten our apples.  In a few months, they will be delivering another box or two of venison.  Which we will enjoy.

    We had elk as well as deer (none / 0) (#30)
    by fishcamp on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 07:54:14 AM EST
    tromping around my land in Colorado not only stripping the bark off trees but eating entire trees.  They are huge creatures and remind me of camels.  Deer usually travel with the elk herds and they look like little dogs along side the wily Wapiti.  During my earlier years in Oregon we had Roosevelt Elk in the coast range closer to the ocean.  They are a much smaller species but still tree eaters.  No deer here in the keys...just big fish.

    Hmm... have you ever been to (none / 0) (#33)
    by MO Blue on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 08:11:05 AM EST
    Big Pine Key?

    The Key deer is a subspecies of the white-tailed deer. It once ranged throughout the lower Florida Keys, but now lives primarily in one area called Big Pine Key and surrounding small islands.

    National Wildlife Federation has worked to protect the Key deer since 1951, when only about 25 of the animals still survived. That year, we adopted a resolution at our annual meeting to safeguard them and soon after made "Save the Key Deer" the subject of National Wildlife Week. NWF also was instrumental in creation of the National Key Deer refuge in 1953 and in making the Key deer one ofthe first endangered species protected by the U.S. Endangered Species Act in 1973. Today, NWF continues to take action to ensure a safe future of the Key deer and its habitat through the courts and through education.

    They regularly dined on pricey trees and plants at my son's house when he lived on Big Pine. He tried every recommended repellent to no avail. They just keep on eating.  


    Been there, done that (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by ragebot on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 09:59:45 AM EST
    Big Pine is known more for the Blue Hole which is an interesting trip.  There is a fair size gator that lives there as well as fresh water turtles and fresh water fish.  While there are a few Key Deer on Big Pine it is not my first choice as a place to observe the Key Deer.

    Not trying to start a class war but I would guess the income level on Big Pine is significantly lower than the income level on No Name Key which is East of Big Pine and connected by a bridge.  The homes on No Name look much more expensive and the lawns are much nicer.  Perhaps more importantly No Name Key is basically populated by snow birds who have winter homes in the keys while Big Pine is basically populated more by working class.

    Key Deer


    correct about the Key deer... (none / 0) (#64)
    by fishcamp on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 12:12:14 PM EST
    forgot about those little cute creatures.  That new fence and underpass has kept many of them alive.  Unfortunately many drown after their cross to other islands swim.  They get in the canals and can't make it up the cement walls.  Terrible story.

    Yes, Big Pine Key (none / 0) (#37)
    by KeysDan on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 09:12:27 AM EST
    Is at Mile Marker 30 (Key West is MM zero).  There is a two mile stretch of US l (Overseas Highway) through Big Pine that is elevated and fenced off to permit Key Deer to pass under the road.  And, a 35 MPH night-time speed limit.

    France plays spoiler (1.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Politalkix on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 06:05:38 PM EST
    The fact that (none / 0) (#2)
    by Edger on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 10:22:51 AM EST
    guys like this exist may be an argument against evolution?

    Man Punches Bear Trap! On purpose.

    Well you're not just a man until you punch a bear trap!

    This is (5.00 / 5) (#3)
    by Zorba on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 01:26:45 PM EST
    the definition of "really, really stupid."
    Hope this guy doesn't breed.  

    heh! (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Edger on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 01:54:17 PM EST

    Lordy (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by sj on Sun Nov 10, 2013 at 10:48:33 PM EST
    that went on wa-a-ay too long. Especially when you knew what was going to happen.

    I do admit (none / 0) (#28)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 06:58:07 AM EST
    that I was kind of hoping he would head butt the thing.

    Live in Jax, absolutely NOT a Jags fan (none / 0) (#26)
    by Amiss on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 06:31:10 AM EST
    Totally in shock! This one win has given them new vigor. I don't hate them, just don't love them, either.

    What? (none / 0) (#27)
    by jondee on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 06:33:36 AM EST
    no one considered the possibility that Iran having a hostile, sabre rattling, armed-to-the-teeth nation invading countries on it's eastern and western borders might, just maybe, alarm them to the point that they'd ramp up their efforts to obtain a nuclear trump card of their own?

    Well, we don't have much to (none / 0) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 08:42:17 AM EST
    talk about in football teams this year but we can sure brag about how Obamacare is canceling:

    Blue Cross Blue Shield of Tennessee, the largest underwriter of individual health plans in the state, plans to send about 66,000 letters to consumers over the next year informing them that they will have to choose another policy.

    Other insurers are doing the same thing.


    Pee Wee Football (none / 0) (#49)
    by CoralGables on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 10:41:38 AM EST
    Good stuff (none / 0) (#59)
    by Slado on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 11:28:41 AM EST
    However as the coach of a youth basketball team I try to not take advantage of the fact that I'm coaching against 6 and 7 year olds.

    Since many don't even know how to play the game, trick plays seem like a bit too much.

    However it is cool that a coach could get a group of kids to run that play to perfection.


    No kidding (none / 0) (#73)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 12:45:12 PM EST
    It is a huge event just to get them to know where they should be lining up.

    And maybe the Vols can use it next year against AL.


    The closer to sandlot pick up (none / 0) (#90)
    by MKS on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:46:52 PM EST
    games, the better. So a little razzle dazzle if done in the spirit of fun would be great.

    But if it is competition to the death as so many youth leagues are like, and if there are trophies, and travel teams, and private coaches, count me out.


    Daddy ball is great and a lot of fun (none / 0) (#139)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 05:51:39 PM EST
    and we push high school athletics way too much. Many kids who would play drop just because of the pressure to win.  

    Daddy ball is great and a lot of fun (none / 0) (#140)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 06:03:46 PM EST
    and we push high school athletics way too much. Many kids who would play drop just because of the pressure to win.  

    Martin/Incognito (none / 0) (#95)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:58:12 PM EST
    "My actions were coming from a place of love," Incognito said. "No matter how bad or how vulgar it sounds, that's how we communicate, that's how our friendship was. Those are the facts and that's what I'm accountable for."

    This isn't an issue about bullying. This is an issue of my and Jon's relationship where I have taken stuff too far. I did not intend to hurt him," Incognito said. "When the words are put in the context, I understand why a lot of eyebrows get raised. But people don't know how Jon and I communicate to one another."

    "As a leader, as his best friend on the team, that's what has me miffed," he said. "I never saw this coming."

    If he's on the level... (none / 0) (#97)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 02:21:17 PM EST
    it makes ball-busting in my circles sound quaint and tame.

    We'll rip on each other's ethnicity and religion and stuff...we'd never talk about running a train on anybody's sister, not if you wanna keep your teeth.  Way way over the line, but I agree we don't know the context of their working relationship and the Dolphins locker room.  Maybe they do roll that nasty, but color me shocked.


    of mutual ball-busting, I would not be shocked if these comments really were meant in that type of best-friend, camaraderie, ball-busting way.

    That is not to say Jon's reaction to the comments was wrong.


    That may well be... (none / 0) (#119)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 03:52:52 PM EST
    but I'd still be shocked...I thought my boys were brutal, but we've never ever even gotten close to talking about anybody's mom/sister/wife/girlfriend like that...that's just nuts.  But maybe that's how they roll in the NFL culture, who knows.

    About as raunchy as we get is ethnic slurs, merciless ridicule of each other's play, and/or small d8ck jokes.  


    In college, girlfriends, sisters, etc., (none / 0) (#126)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 04:21:44 PM EST
    were not particularly off-limits, especially if we knew them personally, though they were not standard fare. Now that we're old we really don't ever go there anymore.

    You want Incognito (none / 0) (#147)
    by MKS on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 07:20:02 PM EST
    dating your daughter?

    What a bizarre question. (none / 0) (#162)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 08:25:53 PM EST
    If "yes," what does that mean regarding how Incognito and many (most) of his teammates talk to each other?

    If "no," same question.


    sb (most?) (none / 0) (#163)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 08:26:58 PM EST
    Why is google news so fixated on this man? And (none / 0) (#164)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 08:50:27 PM EST
    what the h kind of name is that?  A rhetorical question.

    Maybe because it's more interesting than (none / 0) (#165)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 08:53:17 PM EST
    the endless and monotonous bickering over Obamacare/websites/etc?

    Shouldn't we concentrate on the issue of whether (none / 0) (#167)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 09:16:29 PM EST
    John Kerry sold us out?

    If that is how all the "Fish" talk, (none / 0) (#180)
    by MKS on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 10:54:48 AM EST
    well then, squish 'em all.

    The NFL is becoming more like boxing by the minute.   They are not immune from being civilized.  They are not automatic heroes.  They are not so privileged they get a bye on being decent people.

    They are entertainment.  One step away from professional wrestling.  They are not superhuman heroes....

    If they violate norms of decency, we all can go elsewhere for entertainment.  Goodell knows this and he'll squish 'em.

    Your defense that all the Fish do it, just brings down condemnation on the whole team.   They are not so privileged they can do whatever they want.  Their norms do not matter, our norms do. They want to act like entitled jerks or thugs, then they need to lose a lot of fans and moolah.


    Another oblique comment. (none / 0) (#182)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 11:50:11 AM EST
    MY "defense?" Defense of what?!

    I never put any of my judgement, good or bad, right or wrong, on any of this.

    You, on the other hand, clearly have a dog in this fight.

    And since I am not "with you" in your fight, by your definition I must therefore be "agin' you."

    Sic 'em!


    SNU you (none / 0) (#191)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 12:19:00 PM EST
    have discovered the secret of many many on the Left. Fail to embrace one thing and you automatically are lower than Hitler and Stalin combined.

    SNU you (none / 0) (#193)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 12:22:52 PM EST
    have discovered the secret of many many on the Left. Fail to embrace one thing and you automatically are lower than Hitler and Stalin combined.

    I think you're overstating (none / 0) (#194)
    by jondee on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 12:25:28 PM EST
    things a bit. And one post was enough.

    Or...they could have been the only (none / 0) (#120)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 03:56:42 PM EST
    way Martin believed he could get the bullying to stop - laugh at the "jokes," try to be a "good sport," knowing that the kind of influence and sway Incognito had over that position group could determine how his life in the locker room - and on the field - was going to go.

    Incognito has a history - and it ain't pretty; what does Martin's history say about him?  


    ya. unfortunately, when "busting-balls," (none / 0) (#124)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 04:17:45 PM EST
    sometimes there is a point where one person is not really enjoying it or having fun any more.

    Was that love (none / 0) (#98)
    by MKS on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 02:29:31 PM EST
    that Incognito was expressing with a golf club?

    Not really relevant to Martin's case, imo.

    It shows how Incognito (none / 0) (#102)
    by MKS on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 02:48:45 PM EST
    views just having fun or kidding others...

    Squish the Fish!


    Don't you know? (none / 0) (#103)
    by jbindc on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 02:54:27 PM EST
    ALL women find that kind of behavior sexy and hot.

    Martin's Text To Incognito (none / 0) (#109)
    by ragebot on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 03:26:25 PM EST
    was released by Martin's lawyer.  More than one text and not what I expected.



    I don't think Incognito did himself any favors (none / 0) (#117)
    by CoralGables on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 03:49:28 PM EST
    The only good thing for both of them right now is to meet privately, discuss it, and put it behind them. Going on television may have been the worst move in this case as it just inflates it.

    I'll be surprised to see Incognito in a Dolphin uniform again unless Martin is there alongside him. Yesterday lowered that possibility.


    SITE VIOLATOR (none / 0) (#172)
    by shoephone on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:44:42 AM EST

    Vietnamese? Thai? I'll have the shrimp curry.