Wednesday Open Thread

I have a post almost ready on the latest developments in the Kim Dotcom case, but won't get back to it until tonight. Background here. I think the Government is on shaky ground when it writes:

Yet Megaupload does not cite a single communication between the government and Megaupload or a single instruction from any member of the government to Megaupload; there are none.

Of course there aren't. Because the Government had Carpathia do its bidding for it and act as the middleman. In addition to what it represented to the court in its motion to seal the Ninja search warrant, and what the Court's sealing order for that warrant stated, there's this email from Carpathia to Kim Dotcom and Matthias Ortmann.

As I said, more later.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Strangest story of the day (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 04:40:42 PM EST
    Notre Dame football player and Heisman finalist Manti Te'o who played the season in honor of his girlfriend who died of leukemia, appears to have been a totally made up story with the girlfriend never existing, never having leukemia, and never dying. A hoax from day 1.

    What will the NCAA do? (none / 0) (#2)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 04:46:00 PM EST
    Ha (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 04:54:09 PM EST
    someone, or everyone but one, has been lepreconned

    How are things in Gloccamora? (none / 0) (#6)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 05:32:46 PM EST
    Rarely a day goes by (none / 0) (#14)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 08:18:03 PM EST
    that you don't take me to school (or in this case google) :)

    Just read the Deadspin story on this, (none / 0) (#4)
    by Anne on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 05:14:59 PM EST
    and I'm just kind of stunned at how elaborate this fiction was.

    I'm just so sick of liars, I really am.  Especially liars who have everything going for them.


    It's not exactly news that sociopaths (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 10:15:48 AM EST
    run the world.  Sometimes they're exposed.

    Meant to post the link to that story. (none / 0) (#5)
    by Anne on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 05:16:37 PM EST
    This is (none / 0) (#7)
    by Zorba on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 06:26:27 PM EST
    so incredibly strange.  I just don't know what to think of it, except to say, does Manti have some mental problems?  Or does he coldly and deliberately think this will help him?  Or did he listen to some idiot advisors who led him on the wrong path?  Who the heck knows?

    ND has released a statement today that Te'o (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 06:32:46 PM EST
    was duped in some way, which is even a stranger story...

    How does one get duped into ... (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 07:13:36 PM EST
    ... manufacturing a bogus story about a deceased girlfriend who died of leukemia?

    Oh, whatever! That's obviously Te'o's problem and not ours -- which is a good thing, because this is the sort of nonsense that otherwise makes my head hurt.


    Here's the link to .. (none / 0) (#11)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 07:18:26 PM EST
    ... the local story, which is currently all over the airwaves out here because this idiot's from Honolulu and went to Punahou (also President Obama's HS alma mater).

    He went to Obama's (1.50 / 2) (#32)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 08:53:18 AM EST
    alma mater????

    Now we have a hint as to how Obama came to be Obama......lead in the water pipes?? Ancient curses on the site of the building???



    Punahou is an outstanding school (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by MKS on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 10:02:59 AM EST
    on the edge of Waikiki.  A colleague of mine went there.  Not sure what the point of your post it.

    MKS (2.00 / 1) (#127)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 09:16:19 AM EST
    Ain't no fun if I have to explain it..

    ... but I think you get it.


    Then allow me to explain it. (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 01:55:22 PM EST
    The election's over, Jim, and Obama won -- again. Deal with it.

    51% of us aren't (none / 0) (#141)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 08:42:48 PM EST
    "51%"?!? (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by Yman on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 09:16:17 PM EST
    Aren't what?

    Capable of reading the election results?

    You guys must be that 47% that Romney was talking about ...


    Aren't dealing with it, I think... (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by Anne on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 09:36:28 PM EST
    So they resort to the kinds of lame comments jim made.

    Bitterness and desperation are not a good combination.


    I thought that's what he meant, but ... (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by Yman on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 09:46:28 PM EST
    ... have no idea where he gets his 51% number.  Obama got 51% of the vote and he's at 52/43% approval/disapproval, so Jim's making up his numbers ...

    ... as usual.


    It "ain't no fun" even AFTER ... (5.00 / 3) (#129)
    by Yman on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 02:47:19 PM EST
    ... you explain it.

    Conservatives really shouldn't try humor ... oil and water.


    Punahou School is one of the ... (none / 0) (#86)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 03:37:49 PM EST
    ... outstanding prep schools in the country. Further, having been founded in 1841 as a school for American missionary children, Punahou is also the second oldest secondary school west of the Mississippi River. The only school that's older is also in Hawaii, Lahainaluna High School over on the west side of Maui.

    In fact, it was not uncommon for well-heeled families in Gold Rush-era California -- at the time, much less developed than the Kingdom of Hawaii -- to send their sons to be educated at Punahou, even though it was 2,500 miles away in a foreign country.


    I'm going to keep asking until I get an answer :) (none / 0) (#89)
    by sj on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 03:47:35 PM EST
    How were the opening day shows for each chamber?  For me that was one of the little miracles of Hawaii.  How they took a day that is so stressful in other states and turned it into a celebration.  It was a little, joyful party before the storm.

    It made my mental back un-kink, if that makes sense.

    So... spill.


    Two options being floated (none / 0) (#12)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 08:11:22 PM EST
    and the Notre Dame press release option makes no sense since even his father said she stayed with the family in Hawaii.

    One is he and a family friend got together to create the bogus story to keep him in the news and help his Heisman chances.

    The other (first mentioned as a possibility by a Miami radio sports talk show host today in an interview with the Deadspin story writer) is Deadspin "may have" unintentionally outed a college student who had created an elaborate story as cover.


    Just so I understand, did the Miami sports (none / 0) (#13)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 08:14:45 PM EST
    talk host mean that Manti is gay and the dead girlfriend was his beard?

    He stopped himself (none / 0) (#15)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 08:23:55 PM EST
    right after one question. He hesitently asked the writer how he would feel if that was the outcome of the story. Both said they would feel bad if the story took that direction for what they would have done to a student and then quickly moved back away from that area of discussion.

    But from what I gather since getting back home from running, that idea has taken on a life of its own.


    Any way you cut it, this is a sad and sorry (none / 0) (#22)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 09:49:00 PM EST
    tale. If Manti made up a girlfriend to hide that he is gay, that is too, too sad. They kid must have been terrified of the information about his orientation getting out.

    If he made up the GF for some other, more nefarious, reason like boosting his profile for the Heisman, well, also sad, and damn infuriating.

    And, if he is the victim of a cruel hoax, sad again. Sad that he was duped. And sad that Manti apparently fell in love with a girl he never actually met. And sa that somebody would do that to another person.

    If either of the first two is what happened, well, what the hell is wrong with Notre Dame? They are just out and out lying.


    A fake GF (none / 0) (#33)
    by Reconstructionist on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 09:31:59 AM EST
     to conceal one's sexual preference is not unheard of, but why would killing her off be a part of the ruse? If friends of family were pressing to  meet her couldn't you just say you broke up?

      The element of the tragic demise -- coinciding with the death of his grandmother-- providing widely heralded inspiration for him to win one  for the .... makes me think the more likely motive was to get publicity.


    Or, the girlfriend (none / 0) (#25)
    by MKS on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 10:57:22 PM EST
    was a pen-pal that he never met in person but only exchanged emails and talked on the phone with.    She told him she has cancer etc, but she was just putting him on.

    This oddball explanation could be true.   He was Mormon, so an in person physical relationship was a no-no.   Who knows....

    This whole thing will put the NFL Draft in a tumult.   Te'o could have lost millions.


    He's Mormon? (5.00 / 0) (#43)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 11:23:03 AM EST
    Okay, it is possible then that she was the love of his life.  They use different standards to judge that than I do :)  Many of the Mormon kids that I went to school with ended up in marriages that seemed somewhat arranged and often their families were involved in setting it up.  Did someone set him up to be attached so he wouldn't find a non-Mormon to date?  I would not be one bit surprised if his family did that to him.  In my experience, Mormon families freak out if you hook up with a non-Mormon at his age and stage of the game.  They dream of you marrying in the tabernacle.  That is really crappy and if we find out that is what they did I won't be one bit surprised nope nope nope.

    Now I think his dad was involved too in keeping him "attached" too.  Boy this sux


    True (none / 0) (#48)
    by MKS on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 12:21:21 PM EST
    One note:  They sing and give talks in the Tabernacle; they get married in the Temple....

    Maybe they should get married in the Tabernacle.


    Heh (none / 0) (#112)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 07:07:55 PM EST
    Oops, I'm not Mormon.  People who grow up in the faith have been a strange and  sometimes wonderful mystery to me.  One of my best friends in school was Mormon, and I could detect absolutely no physical attraction that he might have for me.  I had never had a friendship like that, no sexual tension at all but he dated women.  He was one of the more intelligent students in my major and we would partner whenever we could.  He dated only Mormon girls, all known by his family.  After I became a single mom, my friendship did not change with him either, and his sister used to babysit for me at times.  Very child oriented family.  I did not lose anything in his family's eyes having a child out of wedlock because I was not Mormon.  At some time maybe I could still be saved :) In the meantime I did the right thing in their eyes and had my child so I was placed in a good lost woman kind of category.  

    Am I the only one here (none / 0) (#39)
    by brodie on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 10:25:27 AM EST
    having trouble with the story that he could fall in love with someone he never met and only knew online?

    Interested in, intrigued by, might want to arrange a date with, yes.  But fall in love?  And to the point where some big emotional wallop occurs from the death of someone you've never met?

    Unlikely to be the case.  Especially with an upperclass big school footballer and coming from a prestige private prep school.

    I don't buy his story or the neat spin story from ND officials backing him and the notion he was the victim.  Give that less than a 5% chance of being true.

    But par for the course for nearly all the media not to have checked out his story initially, even the bare minimum.  Par too for the reporter at ESPN to run with it even after a check turned up nothing about her prior to death, because apparently the player asked him not to get into that and, I suspect, the weepy concocted story was just too good not to broadcast.  Helps boost ESPN/ABC college football ratings.


    ESPN's Jeremy Schaap (none / 0) (#46)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 11:41:07 AM EST
    was set to conduct a one-one-one interview with Manti Te'o today (it was set up after the story broke yesterday).

    Word is now out that it has been scrapped. Sounds like the Manti Te'o PR machine is grinding its gears.


    I agree with you (none / 0) (#49)
    by MKS on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 12:26:12 PM EST
    But in Mormon culture platonic relationships for the unmarried are strongly preferred.  From what I understand, they still have occasional warnings against French kissing.  And if you consummate your relationship while a student at BYU, you still get expelled.  (How they find out these things is not totally clear, but many confess and informants rat out others.)

    Very complicated story on that issue (none / 0) (#50)
    by Dadler on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 12:45:36 PM EST
    According to a Mormon girl (none / 0) (#54)
    by jondee on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:14:58 PM EST
    I know, one of the in things for young Morman couples is a maneuver referred to as "docking"; which is apparently a form of advanced dry humping, involving something just short of clinical penetration.

    Kinky...n/t ;) (none / 0) (#55)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:25:18 PM EST
    Yeah (none / 0) (#58)
    by jondee on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:32:10 PM EST
    don't knock those temple garments until you've taken 'em for a spin yourself..

    Could be they're like Wilhelm Reich's "orgone box" and absorb cosmic energy from the atmosphere..;-)    


    Whatever gets ya through the night... (none / 0) (#61)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:41:06 PM EST
    it's allright...it's allright.

    I must say I admire the creativity...more conventional christians go straight for the an*l loophole to maintain technical virginity.

    PS Thanks for the name drop, Wilhelm sounds like quite the character.  I've got some reading to do.


    The last person to have his (none / 0) (#65)
    by jondee on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:50:32 PM EST
    books burned by the U.S Govt, as far as I'm aware.

    Why a good film hasn't been made about the revolutionary/mystic of the orgasm, is completely beyond me.


    Supposedly Woody Allen (none / 0) (#93)
    by brodie on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 03:53:55 PM EST
    was referencing Reich's orgone machine in several scenes of his early 70s movie Sleeper.  

    At least that was the word on the street 40 yrs ago.  Haven't googled it -- like the media in the ND player story, I prefer to believe it's true and am too lazy to spend any time researching it.


    If you do delve into Wilhelm's writing, kdog, (none / 0) (#67)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:54:56 PM EST
    please come back here and tell us what you think.

    Reich has some interesting things to say. And that is all I am going to say.


    Will do... (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 02:08:32 PM EST
    if Uncle Sam was burning his words and sicking the FBI on him, sh*t they gotta be good!  

    Is there a manual for that? (none / 0) (#122)
    by MKS on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 10:54:55 PM EST
    Bummer (none / 0) (#113)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 07:08:32 PM EST
    But.... (none / 0) (#41)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 11:14:16 AM EST
    ...he's claiming he was the victim of catfishing, that the girl he 'loved' was real to him, and just the product of some jokester.

    Not really sure how anyone can claim to have a girlfriend they have never met, but the University is getting behind this and I have to assume at this point, they checked out his claim thoroughly.

    I hope this is the case and it turns out he is just really dumb and didn't willfully lie.

    Here is an article
    about the guy who asked the girl in the photos to take certain ones that were used in the Twitter back & forth.  She is the face of the non-existent girlfriend and he is the guy who acquired her photos used to supposedly deceive Manti.

    It's all very strange.


    I saw some of it this morning (none / 0) (#42)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 11:16:20 AM EST
    He called her the love of his life in one interview.  How can someone be the love of your life if you have never met them and you aren't 14 anymore?

    If you read the Deadspin article, (none / 0) (#45)
    by Anne on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 11:39:08 AM EST
    maybe you ended up asking the same questions I did:

    1.  Who was he talking to when she was in the hospital?

    2.  Seeing as how this woman didn't exist, who were the "relatives" he said told him that when she was in the coma, the sound of his voice increased her respiration rate?

    3.  Letters were mentioned: who wrote them?

    4.  Who was the woman he met after the Stanford game?

    5.  Did his father say that she traveled to Hawaii to meet Manti based only on Manti telling him that?  If so, why would he tell his father she flew to Hawaii to meet him if that never happened?  Was he trying to assure his parents that this wasn't just some online relationship and the only way he could do that was to invent in-person meetings that never happened?

    6.  Who was the "older brother?"

    I could come up with more questions like this, but the point is that if he was being punk'd, it was as elaborate a hoax as I've ever heard of.  How in the world do you involve that many people in something like this in order to make it work, and not have a single person back out or start talking about it?

    If he was in on it, that's worse on just so many more levels, and I wouldn't know what to think or whom to believe.

    I know one thing: the last source I would trust is the university, given the financial and PR interest they have in this guy.

    And one more thing: how ticked off is Lance Armstrong that this late-breaking story is sucking all the oxygen out of the Lance/Oprah Mutual Career Enhancement Initiative?


    C'mon, Anne, have a heart. (none / 0) (#114)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 07:27:29 PM EST
    After all, an imaginary girl is dead here.

    As was Notre Dame's No. 1 ranking. (none / 0) (#18)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 08:44:53 PM EST

    It's opening day of ... (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 07:03:13 PM EST
    "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in."
    - Michael Corleone (Al Pacino), The Godfather, Part III (1990)

    ... the Hawaii State Legislature's 2013 Regular Session, and Yours Truly has been talked into returning to work at the State Capitol as the House Majority's legislative policy director for the new Speaker, after 8 years away. D'oh! (Palm slaps against forehead.)

    I don't know why I agreed to come back, but at least I was asked nicely. Well, actually, there was an extended and very nasty leadership fight among the 44-member Democratic majority in the House after the election, with the caucus split right down the middle, 22-22 -- and you need 26 members in order to organize the 51-member House. The division ultimately proved intractible, and lasted all the way until Friday afternoon.

    The new Speaker is 80 years old, and a longtime member who was first elected to the House in 1978. Everyone likes him, and he became an acceptable third-party compromise after the division precluded anybody from ever agreeing on either of the two who were originally fighting over the job. My former boss recommended that he call me, which he did on Saturday morning and asked if I would help put together a leadership staff quickly for him, because he said most all the Democratic members respected my judgment.

    And because that sort of cheap flattery will get you everywhere with me, and because I'll have no client business pending before the legislature this year which might prove a conflict of interest, I agreed to return. My first day back in the saddle was Monday. I'm in my old office, and it's almost like I never left -- which is kind of eery, now that I think of it.

    The good thing is that I at least said that I'd only work through the session itself, which ends the second week of May. By then, the new Speaker will hopefully be firmly in control, and I'll have someone trained to take my place so I can return to work in the private sector. As it stands, I've had to let clients know that I was taking this on, and that my partner has agreed to cover my sorry a$$ for the next four months.

    Now we'll see if I can still remember how to play the game, and navigate the Speaker through the acrimonious aftermath of the intense leadership struggle. Wish me luck. I may need it -- and hopefully, I won't come to rue this decision.


    Policy Director.... (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 08:39:39 AM EST
    so I take it reefer will be totally legal under Hawaii state law in what...6-8 weeks Donald?  

    Don't let me down! ;)


    Not my call, dude. (none / 0) (#91)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 03:52:50 PM EST
    "We're all gonna rock to the rules that I make."
    - Alice Cooper, "Elected," Billion Dollar Babies (1972)

    But I sure wish it was. (Sigh!)


    C'mon... (none / 0) (#125)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 08:42:34 AM EST
    don't bullsh*t me, you're the god damn policy director for the god damn majority speaker of the legislature of the great State of Hawaii.  

    Use the force Luke! Sh*t get the state minimum wage raised to 15 bucks while you're at it;)


    I know we have problems (none / 0) (#126)
    by EL seattle on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 09:10:46 AM EST
    We have problems on the north, south, east and west.
    New York city, Saint Louis, Philadelphia, Los Angeles Detroit, Chicago.
    Everybody has problems
    And personally I don't care.

    - V. Furnier, et al.


    Hawaii's Legislative Opening Day! (none / 0) (#36)
    by sj on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 09:54:17 AM EST
    Who had the better show this year?  The House or the Senate?  I know loyalty dictates that you give the nod to the House, but this is semi-anonymous site, so spill.

    To be perfectly honest, ... (none / 0) (#90)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 03:48:19 PM EST
    ... I haven't seen the State Senate's opening day ceremonies in years, because I've always been on the floor of the House, seated with the other senior staff behind the Speaker. The last time I ever saw the Senate on opening day was when I worked over there, and that was 21 years ago.

    Makes sense (none / 0) (#97)
    by sj on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:08:48 PM EST
    So.... who did the House have?  :)

    The entertainment included ... (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 08:02:16 PM EST
    ... Willie K and Halau Keali'i o Nalani. From what I understand, Willie K also performed over in the Senate, along with Amy Hanai'ali'i. The Opening Day session is always a bit over the top. The public loves it, and it's fun to see -- once.

    But honestly, I was very glad when it was all over. There's still a lot of ill will left over from the leadership fight in the House, and it spilled over into the opening day pageantry.

    When we held the vote for Speaker, 20 dissident Democrats stood up and offered a floor amendment which would've allowed them to vote on record for someone else. This was something which I was not expecting at all, having been given the impression that members had finally reached an accord last Friday.

    Obviously not. Instead, it turned into 40 minutes of pretty intense floor debate in front of a packed gallery, and at times it got very heated and personal, before it was finally defeated on a roll call vote.

    When we finally voted on the resolution to confirm the leadership and committee assignments, and the same 20 voted against that, too. Fortunately, the seven Republican members voted with us to confirm (we needed 26 votes), or we'd have had a real parliamentary mess on our hands.

    Clearly, we have a lot of bridges between House Democrats that are in need of some serious repair. My own representative from my district is one of the dissidents, and he gave me the cold shoulder and brush off yesterday, like I was working for the enemy. Perhaps the hard feelings will subside once we start getting down to serious business.

    But like I said yesterday, I hope I don't rue my decision to return as senior staff, even temporarily. I really had no idea that it was going to be this bad when I agreed last Saturday to come back for this session.



    Why the big split in the Dem. Party in Hawaii? (none / 0) (#120)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 09:33:46 PM EST
    is this a liberal vs. blue dog thing? Or a personality conflict? Or a new members vs. old members thing? Or what?

    It's a personality thing. (none / 0) (#121)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 09:41:52 PM EST
    When you are essentially a one-party state as we are in Hawaii, you'll inevitably see splits within the majority party caucuses, which often has to do more with power than with political philosophy.

    The GOP out here is negigible. Frankly, I'm grateful that the seven Republicans voted to confirm the leadership and committees yesterday without trying to leverage their votes. Because without their support on that one vote, we'd have ended up with a 24-member Democratic majority bloc, a 20-member Democratic dissident bloc, and a 7-member GOP bloc -- and in a 51-member House, you'll need 26 to organize. We would've been completely paralyzed and unable to conduct business.


    These greedy a$$holes want it all (5.00 / 4) (#24)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 10:41:08 PM EST
    WASHINGTON (AP) -- An influential group of business CEOs is pushing a plan to gradually increase the full retirement age to 70 for both Social Security and Medicare and to partially privatize the health insurance program for older Americans.

    The Business Roundtable's plan would protect those 55 and older from cuts but younger workers would face significant changes. The plan unveiled Wednesday would result in smaller annual benefit increases for all Social Security recipients. Initial benefits for wealthy retirees would also be smaller.

    Medicare recipients would be able to enroll in the traditional program or in private plans that could adjust premiums based on age and health status.

    "America can preserve the health and retirement safety net and rein in long-term spending growth by modernizing Medicare and Social Security in a way that addresses America's new fiscal and demographic realities," said Gary Loveman, chairman, president and chief executive of casino giant Caesars Entertainment Corp.

    The Business Roundtable is an association of CEOs of some of the largest U.S. companies. Member companies account for nearly a third of the total value of the U.S. stock market, according to the group. link

    Make no mistake "modernizing" these programs means cutting them to the point of making them worthless. If these benefits are cut, it will be to take your money and give these people who make millions of dollars a year.

    If this Te-o guy... (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by unitron on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:53:55 AM EST
    ...can shove ol' Lance off into well deserved obcurity, he'll be my new hero, regardless of my lack of interest in football or whatever he plays.

    I could have sworn... (test ' - ) (none / 0) (#30)
    by unitron on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:59:37 AM EST
    ...that I used an apostrophe and not a hyphen.

    My apologies to the gentleman for mangling his name.


    Came across a most interesting (5.00 / 5) (#34)
    by Anne on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 09:38:04 AM EST
    article - thanks to a link from Charlie Pierce - that I would highly recommend: Journalists in the service of Pete Peterson

    From the article:

    Each spring since 2010, some of Washington's A-list politicians assemble in the capital to submit to questions from some of the media's A-list journalists on the future of the federal fiscal policy.

    These interviews, though, aren't conducted on the steps of Congress, in the Washington bureaus of the nation's newspapers, or in the television studios of major networks, but rather at private "Fiscal Summits" convened by Peter G. Peterson, the billionaire former commerce secretary and co-founder of the Blackstone private equity group.


    A review of the proceedings of the Fiscal Summits of the last three years makes agonizingly clear that most of the journalists who conducted interviews or moderated panel discussions both reflected and amplified the Peterson worldview -- entirely unselfconsciously, it would seem.

    So, for example, Lesley Stahl, the CBS "60 Minutes" reporter, was fully a part of the Erskine Bowles and Alan Simpson deficit-cutting team during her interview with both men: "You are going to have to raise taxes and cut things, big things, put restrictions on Social Security. Everybody knows that."

    Virtually none of the reporters thought to ask about or suggest an alternative path, such as preserving Social Security benefits and bolstering the system's reserve by raising the cap of wages subject to Social Security taxes (currently annual wages above approximately $110,000 are not subject to any Social Security tax).

    The article goes on to list example after example of this kind of mirroring of the Peterson worldview - and given that these are the people with the microphones and cameras, it's not hard to see how the message gets broadly disseminated to the general public, and why what the public thinks is so influenced by that message.

    Shouldn't he have called it... (none / 0) (#102)
    by unitron on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:32:26 PM EST
    ..."Stenographers in the service of Pete Peterson"?

    When we're done banning guns, we (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:10:19 PM EST
    can start banning an even bigger threat:

    "Woman Accused Of Using Her Breasts To Smother And Kill Boyfriend"

    What a way to go! (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:28:24 PM EST
    I tell ya, they can come for our guns if they must, but if they come for our breasts I'm taking up arms;)

    That story made it into Pravda, (none / 0) (#94)
    by observed on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 03:58:07 PM EST
    which I read online to practice my Russian.
    The story might not have made sense to a Russian. Not because of the breasts as weapons; rather, the setting of a trailer park may be unfamiliar to Russian readers.

    That reminds me of a scene ... (none / 0) (#98)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:11:38 PM EST
    ... from John Waters' 1994 black comedy "Serial Mom," with the teenaged boy whose fetish for well-endowed women makes him an unwitting target for Kathleen Turner's psychotic wrath, because he offended her sense of propriety and decorum.

    Loved that flick. No (none / 0) (#139)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 08:17:12 PM EST
    white shoes after Labor Day.

    Is this supposed to be funny, Donald? (none / 0) (#17)
    by Anne on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 08:44:34 PM EST
    Cause it's not coming across funny to me; something about the gay stereotype of that first bullet point that's just so gratuitous.  Made me cringe.  Probably not the reaction you were looking for.

    I know it's not malicious, but really, you should know better.

    In Donald's defense (none / 0) (#19)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 08:57:13 PM EST
    I probably shouldn't have even mentioned it. This is one of those times I wish for the edit key.

    ... the subject of gay beards, not you. But that said, you have to admit that gay guy / fake dead girlfriend scenario certainly sounds plausible -- in fact, much more so than the version currently being peddled by Te'o and Notre Dame, in which he's cast as the unwitting victim of an elaborate long-distance ruse.

    For starters, what would be the primary motive for someone else other than Te'o to have concocted such a phony story? If you can't answer that question to your own satisfaction, then the version presently offered by Te'o and Notre Dame clearly doesn't make any sense at all.

    It sounds even more ludicrous when one considers that Brian Te'o, Manti's father, told the South Bend Tribune last October that the imaginary girlfriend visited his son in Hawaii:

    "They started out as just friends. Every once in a while, she would travel to Hawaii, and that happened to be the time Manti was home, so he would meet with her there. But within the last year, they became a couple. And we came to the realization that she could be our daughter-in-law. Sadly, it won't happen now."

    No, it certainly won't.

    Finally, the dead girlfriend story first surfaced last September, during a nationally-televised game between Notre Dame and Michigan State. Why didn't Te'o take the time to correct the misinformation back then?

    This guy's stock in the NFL draft is probably plunging faster than Hewlett-Packard shares on a bad day.


    My apologies. (none / 0) (#20)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 09:02:01 PM EST
    I'm sorry for having offended you. That was certainly not my intent.

    The point I was making, albeit perhaps clumsily,  was that IF such a rumor were indeed true -- and quite frankly, I really wouldn't attach too much credence to any gossip overheard on a sports talk radio babblethon -- then someone like Manti Te'o would certainly put to rest the readily accepted stereotype of gay men in this country.



    Well...if it would turn out to be true - (none / 0) (#23)
    by Anne on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 09:57:58 PM EST
    that Manti is gay - this elaborate scheme that will almost certainly be interpreted as an effort to disguise that isn't going to be much help in putting that old gay stereotype to rest, is it?

    It has me hoping that it was about the publicity, or that it was one of those things that was for no reason, and just got out of control, because I just don't see it as something that's going to end up celebrating the equality and acceptance of gay men in football.


    I suppose the truth will out soon enough. (none / 0) (#26)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 12:14:18 AM EST
    Then we'll be hearing all about Manti Te'o on the cable news gabfests, probably to the near-exclusion of far more important issues, because we Americans sure do love to see other people's dirty laundry hung out to dry.

    I have to agree with you, Anne, I also think it's going to be a long time before we'll see the ready acceptance of openly gay men in organized sports, not just football. But I have every expectation and confidence that it will eventually happen -- just not necessarily in our own lifetimes.

    I have noticed, as the father of a female college athlete, that there does appear to be a little more acceptance of lesbians in women's sports -- not always, but the tolerance level seems higher. Whether it's because women are perhaps more socially mature, I can't say. But we straight men certainly do seem to feel more threatened by the prospect of homosexuality in our midst than do women in general, and I don't know why. Is it all in my head, or have you noticed that, too?

    Oh, by the way, we've just been invited to our first same-sex wedding, which will be in late May up in Bainbridge Island, WA. It's the 30-year-old son of a good college friend and his significant other. The invitation arrived Saturday.

    I'm actually quite touched that we were asked -- so of course we're going. I wouldn't miss it. The world continues to evolve and amaze, often in spite of us.

    Okay, back to work, I've got a huge pile of just introduced legislation on my desk that I've got to go through tonight. Aloha.


    In my experience, speaking as a lesbian, (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:20:50 AM EST
    women are more open or accepting  or whatever of both lesbians and gay men than straight men are. Straight men, and this is a generalization, are threatened by gay men because, I guess, they fear getting gay cooties. And straight men are angered by lesbians because, again guessing here, they cannot accept that the penis is resistible to some women.

    There are homophobic women. And women's sports is not immune to homophobia. Accusing female athletes of being lesbians is still threatening to too many in sports. There are women's coaches who really push their athletes to project "girlyness" by wearing makeup, even on the field or the court, and by dressing in an overly feminine way. And there are parents who freak out at the thought that they daughters might share a locker room with a lesbian.

    Nonetheless, life is much better for lesbian athletes than it is for gay male athletes. I cannot think of a single gay male athlete who has come out while still playing. I can name a number of women who have.


    That fear of getting gay cooties, (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:03:48 PM EST
    strikes close to home.  Tragically, this week, a local high school honors student ended his life by his own hand.  He was 14 years old.   The boy, after coming out, was bullied by classmates  and  apparently, it was too much for him to bear.  Afterward, there were student vigils, cries of disbelief that this could happen here--a place whose motto is "one human family."  Even the priest spoke movingly of "how he matters to God,"  a  no doubt heart-felt eulogy, but seemingly oblivious to the oppressive role played by a Church hierarchy that teaches that the deceased's being was intrinsically evil.

    adolescent males . (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by jondee on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:55:07 PM EST
    with their toxic insecurity, are the worst,       I'm sorry to say..

    Ther guy who wrote Lord of the Flies had it pretty much right..


    alot of hip hop artists (none / 0) (#69)
    by jondee on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 02:00:59 PM EST
    seem to be really into hostily obsessing about "faggots"..

    Whats that all about?


    Who are these artists (none / 0) (#75)
    by vicndabx on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 02:11:08 PM EST
    I listen to hip hop regularly and don't hear much about it.

    Eminem comes immediately to mind (none / 0) (#78)
    by shoephone on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 02:29:11 PM EST
    He seems to think "f*ggot" is a splendid word and ain't no big deal. And what's up with Kanye West's "no homo" thing? Or Li'l Wayne? I don't pretend to be any expert on hip hop, but most of what I've heard over the years is both homophobic and misogynistic, so please... enlighten me and tell me I'm mistaken.

    Misogynistic (none / 0) (#83)
    by vicndabx on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 03:06:36 PM EST
    well, yeah, probably considering the lifestyles many of these rappers lead.

    Seriously though, rap music has its genesis in I'm-better-than-you male bravado bragging, you can't seriously expect that it would not often be misogynistic?  I'm not saying its right, but the genre comes from communities where people have at times felt unempowered.  Not only that, rap is no different that rock and other genres in regards to both misogyny and homophobia.  It is sadly, a reflection of our society.  Not one worthy of singling out IMO.

    To the specific artists you cite, half of Eminem's schtick is his desire to be in your face.  The other half is his skills as a rapper who does not, shall we say, "fit the mold."

    Kanye has spoken out against homophobia.

    While there may be some who have outright hostility, often times IMO it's more metaphorical and is innocuous.  Like young white kids who use the n word to refer to themselves and their friends.

    Attention should really be on the crazies out there doing actual harm.


    You don't think language matters? (none / 0) (#84)
    by shoephone on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 03:29:50 PM EST
    I get what you're saying about doing real harm, but do you mean only people committing violent acts? Speech can be very harmful, and it has an influence on attitudes.

    Kanye may be evolving. I don't know. I think most celebrities who show themselves to be bigots have to backtrack for PR purposes later.

    And, sorry, but your nonchalant excusing of the misogyny in hip hop doesn't impress.


    Not excusing it (none / 0) (#87)
    by vicndabx on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 03:39:01 PM EST
    only speaking of the reality of it.  Do the rappers in videos coerce the women who prance around half-naked?

    Is that really a serious question? (none / 0) (#88)
    by shoephone on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 03:45:51 PM EST
    Rhetorical device (none / 0) (#92)
    by vicndabx on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 03:53:55 PM EST
    point being, and I'm sure you know this, one can hardly blame the men alone for the misogyny in rap music.

    C'mon admit it, you just don't like some of these rappers cuz you're a jazz musician. :-)


    Rhetorical devices aside... (5.00 / 3) (#111)
    by shoephone on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:42:23 PM EST
    Of course men are responsible for misogyny, in rap and elsewhere. First off, as an artist, I hardly find nakedness wrong or off-putting. But in this context, there can be no doubt that the pervasive culture we live in denigrates, dismisses, and disrespects women on a daily basis. Just because some women (mostly young women) have been sucked into believing they are nothing more than the culture--through music, TV, movies, talk radio, magazines, etc.--tells them they are, doesn't give a pass to the men who happily hold the reins of financial power behind that media. Who are the female hip-hop music moguls? I'm not talking about singers. I mean the power behind the record companies. I don't know of any women in those positions. So, who is really influencing what gets broadcast into the culture?

    Are gays responsible for the homophobia, expressed through hateful speech and violence, visited upon them? Are blacks, Latinos, Asians responsible for the white racism, expressed through hateful speech and violence, directed at them for four centuries in this country? I just don't go in for blaming the victim stuff. Victimized groups and individuals have to do their own healing, but being told that those perpetrating the hate are given a pass because we're "asking for it" by behaving or dressing in certain ways doesn't encourage the healing, it just exacerbates the hate--and the shame.

    As for my musical likes and dislikes: I don't hate all rap. But the people I used to like are not really played as much anymore. I used to like KRS-One a lot in the 80's and early 90's. But it's true I don't seek out rap and hip-hop--as much for musical reasons as political ones. I just don't find very much of it appealing on a purely musical level. I find most of it to be rhythmically static, and melodically and harmonically devoid. Plus, a lot of manipulated, computerized sound just doesn't feel good on my ears. (Which is the same reason I think 99% of all pop music now sucks.)

    Anyway, I'm not just a jazz player. Like almost everyone else I started out as a rock player, with Hendrix, Mick Taylor, and Jimmy Page as my heroes.
    Then I moved on to funk guitarists like Jimmy Nolen, Willie Woods, and Ray Parker Jr.

    But can I help it if I heard Wes Montgomery and got mesmerized by a different kind of genius?

    It happens.


    and to your point about language (none / 0) (#95)
    by vicndabx on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 03:58:47 PM EST
    I don't see young kids today who listen to rap being overly influenced by the one-liners they may hear.

    It does play a role certainly in influencing attitudes, but the culture kids are immersed in today has a lot more positive influences w/r/t to attitudes about sexuality than a kid growing up in the 70's and 80's who listened to rap music before it began to go mainstream.


    Naked = misogyny? (none / 0) (#105)
    by SuzieTampa on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:55:53 PM EST
    Vic, do you think women "prancing around naked" contributes to misogyny? Why should naked women make men feel superior? Yes, men who have been oppressed sometimes oppress women to feel better about themselves. They also may express superiority to other groups, based on religion, ethnicity, sexuality, etc.

    What about people who buy and listen to racist music, neither condoning or condemning the racist parts? Would that be OK, too?

    Btw, I'm not condemning rap music that isn't hateful to women.


    By itself no (none / 0) (#110)
    by vicndabx on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:24:41 PM EST
    women "prancing around naked" contributes to misogyny

    women on stripper poles and shaking their a$$es in a video, where the rapper is talking about b!tches and h0es, yes.  

    I'm not condoning it.  Simply stating that it is part of rap culture, and the women who participate know that, and themselves contribute to the misogyny.

    I don't know that it is hateful either, objectifying and a lack of respect, most certainly.  I don't think rappers hate women, on the contrary, I think they know what they've been exposed to.


    See Shoephone above (none / 0) (#130)
    by SuzieTampa on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 03:41:26 PM EST
    ESPN aired a gay kiss recently (2.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Dadler on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:32:49 PM EST
    Posted this a week or so ago, time for a redux. A bowling tournament champion on the PBA hugged and kissed his husband, and there it was on the tube. And society survived, imagine! (link)

    Not that bowling is necessarily a sport like the football or baseball or hockey or basketball, but still, little steps, and this one, to me, was kind of a nice big one.

    But there's Orlando Cruz (link), the Puerto Rican boxer who just came out openly, and also won his first fight after that (link).


    Meant to add (none / 0) (#60)
    by Dadler on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:34:09 PM EST
    Boxing!!!  Don't get any more macho latino than that, so, who knows, maybe there's more hope that we realize. I, um, hope so.



    And with any luck here in San Francisco... (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by Dadler on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:41:15 PM EST
    That would be totally cool, ... (none / 0) (#103)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:33:48 PM EST
    ... if only to see the subsequent exploding talking heads on Fox News.

    If Alaskans can rename Anchorage International Airport after Ted Stevens, surely Harvey Milk deserves the same consideration and recognition in San Francisco, especially since Milk really had a much greater impact -- socially, politically and historically -- than did Stevens.


    I find suchgeneralization of straight men's reactions to gay men contemptuous and bigoted.

    In my experience, from a young age, there are more than enough actual predation by male gay pedophiles, and more than enough societal training to guard one's self against predation by males, to be factors that should promote at least some reasonable understanding. Especially among those who may promote themselves as progressives, etc.

    iow, what's up with the homophobic-phobic attitude?


    Really? I'm guessing you do not have (5.00 / 8) (#63)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:46:00 PM EST
    many gay men in your life. If you did you would be familiar with "gay bashing" that lovely boys-will-be-boys prank where straight men get together, go hunting for someone they perceive to be gay and beat the crap out of that man. This is not some rare and isolated occurrence. It happens everyday in this country. And it happens because these men hate gay men, despise gay men, consider gay men to be less than men.

    Or perhaps you missed all the brou-ha-ha over the last couple of decades about gays in the military. If so, you missed all the discussion of how straight GIs were so worried about teh gays looking at them in the shower or making unwanted sexual advances. You know, treating the straight men much the same way that many straight men (not all) treat women.

    And, please, stop with the gay pedophile scary stories. You sound like the Catholic Church. Study after study has shown that pedophiles are, by and large, straight men, often married men with families.

    None of this applies to ALL straight men. It does apply to an unfortunately large segment of them, however.

    And yes, I do despise homophobes. They are an ugly bigoted lot, and I see no reason to try to "understand" or sympathize with them.


    occurrences of adult men sexually preying on male youths and what effect that has on our society.

    Wow. (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by shoephone on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 02:33:06 PM EST
    Way to miss Casey's point entirely (and such an obvious one, it hardly even needs to be made) and deliberately send it flying in another direction.

    Diversionary tactic.


    Hardly. (none / 0) (#81)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 02:36:31 PM EST
    I am not dismissive of adult men preying (none / 0) (#82)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 02:38:11 PM EST
    on youths. What I said was that the vast majority of pedophiles are straight men, not gay men. This includes men who sexually assault boys as well as girls. Your comment sounded to me like you were claiming GAY men were the pedophiles.  

    Sexual assault is never right or excusable. And I am never dismissive of the harm it does.


    or whatever, male pedophiles who sexually prey on male youths are gay or straight, as it's irrelevant.

    What I'm arguing is relevant, is the effect that that this, again, all-to-common, male on male sexual predation has on our society, and that it might help for more of us to recognize cause and effect.

    Despite my first comment above, I do not think you are a bigot.


    Common compared to... (none / 0) (#104)
    by unitron on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:39:28 PM EST
    ...straight men trying to score with teenage females?

    male to male interactions, clearly the all-too-common adult male predation on female youths also has a big effect on our society.

    Oh, btw, I have made my living (none / 0) (#79)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 02:30:44 PM EST
    in the LA entertainment industry for more than 25 years now. I have my fair share of gay men (and women) in my life.

    Following your logic (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by SuzieTampa on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:01:51 PM EST
    SUO, shouldn't women be angry and fearful of straight men because more men sexually abuse women than prey on boys and men? Shouldn't this be especially true of women who have been molested, raped or escaped from such attempts? Or, would those women be dismissed as man-haters?

    So you are suggesting that male on male (none / 0) (#108)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:11:48 PM EST
    predation has no effect on society? Or is it that women are in some ways more psychologically "balanced" than men (which I would probably agree with)?

    No, I'm not suggesting that (none / 0) (#131)
    by SuzieTampa on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 03:44:09 PM EST
    I'm just asking you: Do you think women, who are more likely to be sexually abused by men, have a right to hate, fear and avoid straight men without being criticized?

    Of course they have the right to do so, (none / 0) (#132)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 03:55:25 PM EST
    and I think society is lucky that the number of those who do is as small as it is.

    Do you think male predation on females is psychologically/sociologically/etc the equivalent of male predation on males?


    Jeez. (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by shoephone on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 05:57:03 PM EST
    You must live in constant fear.

    Ooo, snap! (none / 0) (#134)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 06:18:47 PM EST
    Instead of behaving like a bratty 10 year old (none / 0) (#135)
    by shoephone on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 06:39:43 PM EST
    Maybe you should divulge exactly why it is you are so terrified of men preying on young boys. Is it because you have two young sons? Were you molested when you were young? Coming clean might add to the conversation, but instead, you continue to promote fears based on your personal beliefs without anything to back up your assertions that male on male predators are more harmful to "society" than are male on female predators, and that male on male predators are the main reason for male homophobia.

    Molestation and rape are harmful to all victims, but, with help and time, we learn to work through it and get past it, if possible. Some of it may stay with some people, depending in how severe or long term the abuse was.

    FYI: when I was a girl, I was molested by my after-school math tutor. When I was a teen, I was molested by one of my mother's boyfriends. But I didn't grow up with a terror of men.

    So, SUO, care to share?


    own comment.

    And please don't read mine by giving them whatever tone or intent you apparently are doing that allows to you feel so righteous because they present something that you would prefer not to accept.

    First of all, why do you insist on projecting the conversation on me? If we were discussing pro bike racers, and I pointed out some reasons why they might dope, would you then assume I was a doper too?

    Is it so hard for you to imagine putting yourself in someone else's shoes?

    I have no issues with gay people. I have a gay sister in law and a gay nephew. I have gay men and women in my social circle. I rented a house with a gay friend and several straight friends for several years in college. I have a good number of business relationships with gay men and women; I've spent the last quarter century in the LA entertainment industry.

    I'M promoting fears? Do you have any children? Are you aware of what they're taught in school? Are you aware of what kind of training their teachers get regarding this sort of thing? Do you have any idea how many child protection seminars any kind of community volunteers who interact with youths attend?

    It's not just adult male preying on youth males, have you ever read kdog's comments about cops grabbing his junk? Did you read brodie's comment in the open thread about "But I always preferred that risk to some dude putting his paws on my sensitive areas." Have you ever heard jokes about, say, dropping your soap in the shower?

    Do you really think all this stuff is so isolated that it does not ripple out through our society like dropping a rock in a pond?

    Come clean? Sure. I guess you must be new around here since I've posted this at least a half-dozen times over the years.

    During my years as young elementary school student I was molested several times by grown men. And, like you, I did not grow up with a terror of men.

    Are homophobes terrified of men? Is that really how you think they feel?

    Last year my whole kid's school was apprised that a 3rd grade boy was found in the bathroom instructing other boys to pull down their pants and show him their stuff. Do you think he simply dreamed that up during arts and crafts?

    Do you really think homophobia is wholly because homophobes are simply abhorrent pieces of sh1t?


    I hit "send" before I meant to.... (none / 0) (#137)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 07:55:24 PM EST
    Is it fair, with all this societal focus on bad "gay" stuff that homophobia targets gay guys, despite gay guys not being pedophiles at any greater rate than straight guys? No, of course not. Are there other reasons for homophobia, sure, I never said nor implied otherwise.

    But this one a biggie, and it would seem reasonable to at least try to recognize it.


    Are these your longest (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 08:09:15 PM EST
    comments here evah?

    Evah! (none / 0) (#146)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 11:59:58 AM EST
    Nope, I'm not new around here (none / 0) (#148)
    by shoephone on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 12:41:28 PM EST
    Been posting here since 2008. This last comment from you is the first I've heard of your history of molestation, and it definitely puts your previous comments into perspective.

    You're the one who brought up the correlation btw male predators and homophobia. So thanks for your response. And since I work with students, some of whom have been victims of physical and sexual abuse, yes, I'm quite aware of what's going on out there.

    Thanks for sharing.


    Actually, SUO, (none / 0) (#145)
    by SuzieTampa on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 10:45:19 PM EST
    I think there are more women who are afraid or angry at men than you might realize.  

    You asked: Do you think male predation on females is psychologically/sociologically/etc the equivalent of male predation on males?

    No, I think there are some differences. As stated above, straight men are much more likely to hate and abuse gay men than straight women who hate and attack lesbians. When a man sexually assaults a boy or man, the victim may worry that he's gay or will be perceived as such.

    This is different for a girl or woman because they are more likely to be assaulted by a straight man. The rape may make them reassess their view of sex with men in the future.

    When the attacker is a man, the public tends to blame girls and women more for being raped than it does boys and men.

    To sum up: Boys can suffer just as much as girls who get assaulted, but some of their suffering may be for different reasons.

    Re: sociology. Male-on-male violence feeds a society of domination. But I think male-on-female violence is worse overall because it reinforces inequality for girls and women.  


    Well said. (none / 0) (#147)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 12:00:42 PM EST
    I Agree... (none / 0) (#57)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:31:11 PM EST
    ...with the first part, I don't really care one way or another.  I care as much as I care what religion you are and I am non-religious, so I don't care.

    I have played sports, was in the military, and I think the reaction might be because the ones that do have problems with it are so voicetress about it that it might seem like all us dudes are on the same page, we aren't.

    I see a lot of people saying this or that, but when it comes down to it, I have never seen any real physical hatred.  I know it exists, but in my 42 years, 14 years in Texas, I have never seen anything that disgusted me.  Not something I can even come close to saying about racism.


    I don't think, nor did I say, that all (5.00 / 4) (#66)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:52:16 PM EST
    straight men are homophobes. I would love to believe that a majority are not. Even if the majority is unbiased, that bigoted and hate filled segment is alive and well and causing harm daily.

    I have, and continue, to see real physical harm. Even here in good old liberal Portland we still see straight men attacking men they think are gay and basically beating the crap out of them.

    And even among those who would never physically attack someone, I have experienced an uncomfortableness among some straight men about gay men.

    Yes, things are better than they were 30 years ago. But the haters are still hating.


    Yes, the haters are still hating. (none / 0) (#96)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:07:12 PM EST
    And, the confused are still confusing paraphilias and non-paraphilic sexual interests.   The two, hate and confusion,  become co-minged and hitch up to ignorance---which carries the day.

    Most pedophiles are straight, dude. (none / 0) (#99)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:18:02 PM EST
    Just sayin'. Pedophilia is defined as a sexual attraction to prepubescent children. It has very little or nothing to do with homosexuality. Most pedophiles are not sexually attracted to men.

    i deleted it (none / 0) (#27)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:18:23 AM EST
    you may not have meant it as an insult but readers who don't know that will take it that way.

    Thank you. (none / 0) (#101)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:28:17 PM EST
    I really shouldn't have been so cavalier and flippant in my remark, especially in response to an unsubstantiated comment on sports talk radio. We men can really be incorrigible gossips -- and gossip is destructive.

    GOSSIP WELCOME HERE... (none / 0) (#109)
    by fishcamp on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:04:35 PM EST
    ... come over here and sit next to me.

    Channeling Alice, eh? n/t (none / 0) (#119)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 09:31:38 PM EST
    now, for something completely different! (none / 0) (#35)
    by cpinva on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 09:50:58 AM EST
    re: the kim dotcom case.

    this thing is falling apart faster than bread used as fish bait. possibly faster.

    between this and the swartz case, DOJ is not exactly looking good right now.

    I couldn't listen to the gun debate any longer (none / 0) (#40)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 11:10:31 AM EST
    So I decided to find a movie to watch.  Found Bullworth on HBO, that was a Warren Beatty movie that scored big for me.  Watching it though, this movie is 15 years old and it's still the same old $hit going on today over mostly the same issues :)

    "Obscenity?!?"... (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 11:37:41 AM EST
    Great flick, just did the rewatch too.  

    Also check out "Bob Roberts" if you haven't already, another 90's political flick that gets more poignant with every passing day.

    "Some people must have, some people have not.  But they'll complain and complain and complain and complain and complaaaaaiiiinnn."


    Next time (none / 0) (#47)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 11:52:10 AM EST
    Notre Dame plays Stanford, I can already see the

    Stanford Band breaking out these shirts

    Good Lord... (none / 0) (#64)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:49:47 PM EST
    ...my Governor, Rick Perry, has the perfect plan for gun violence in America:
    Let us all return to our places of worship and pray for help.

    I like Perry, but GD is he just about the dumbest politician in the land and I am not too proud of a Texan to admit it(shaking my head).

    Rick Perry = Ted Baxter. (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by Anne on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 02:21:43 PM EST
    See how it all makes sense now?

    In case you're too young: Ted Baxter

    And here are a few amusing examples: Quotes

    And you might enjoy this clip - love the last line!


    Ain't that the truth! (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 02:13:49 AM EST
    Of course, back in the 1970s, genuine Grade-A bimbos like Rick Perry were the relative exception in public life. Nowadays, it's practically as though they're the general rule.

    Not for nuthin'... (none / 0) (#70)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 02:03:51 PM EST
    the Perry plan has about as much chance at being successful as any other I've heard...and it certainly beats what the NRA has suggested.

    I thought the folks on the Right (none / 0) (#71)
    by jondee on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 02:07:27 PM EST
    already knew what God wants.



    Hey, don't knock Perry (none / 0) (#73)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 02:08:41 PM EST
    Didn't he solve the nationwide drought last year by getting a few thousand of his flock into a stadium to pray for rain?

    What else explains the origin of hurricane Sandy? Now, if we all get together and contribute to send the good Lord a GPS He could direct the next storm to where it is needed.


    not peace and non-violence (none / 0) (#74)
    by jondee on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 02:09:52 PM EST
    that'd be too much like what all them hippies was talkin' about..

    perry is nearly as incoherent as (none / 0) (#115)
    by cpinva on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 08:00:23 PM EST
    rick santorum. am i to assume the majority of texas voters are just dumb as a rock, because it's certainly an easy assumption to make.

    Trevor Dooley (none / 0) (#100)
    by SuzieTampa on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:25:21 PM EST
    I know that Jeralyn doesn't find this relevant to the Zimmerman case. So, I'm posting it in an open thread. Dooley, a black man, shot and killed David James, a white Iraq War veteran. This story doesn't mention James' background.

    no, but it does mention the fact that (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by cpinva on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 08:06:25 PM EST
    mr. dooley went out to the playground armed with a gun. people who go out armed seem to just find violence, it's as though the gun is some kind of weird, karmic magnet.

    It is a magnet. (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 02:19:12 AM EST
    Statistics show that people who carry firearms are far more likely to get into a violent encounter than those who are unarmed. Carrying a weapon instills in people a false bravado and sense of security, rendering them far less likely to shy away from confrontation.

    Link? (none / 0) (#140)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 08:19:15 PM EST