home

Wednesday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 01:40:11 PM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

Busy day. Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Suspect ID'd in Killing of CO Prison Kitchen Staffer | Done Deal: NFL Refs to Return Thursday >

  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    Wednesday Open Thread | 96 comments (96 topical)

    Readers Must Login or Create an Account to Comment

    Republicans (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by CoralGables on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 02:13:44 PM EST
    that were screaming that the polls were skewed with a liberal bias and hanging their hat on the Gallup tracking poll as their poll of choice just went into cardiac arrest.

    The Gallup 7 day tracking just came out for the day with Obama at +6 which also matches today's Bloomberg poll.

    The 47% video (5.00 / 0) (#6)
    by lilburro on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 02:49:54 PM EST
    has certainly had an effect.  Dang.  

    Parent
    I predict that after the debates (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:40:47 AM EST
    Instead of having the current garage sale the Republican party is having they will be having a fire sale.

    Parent
    nope (none / 0) (#94)
    by Amiss on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 10:56:43 PM EST
    Tonight on local news in Jade they are talking at least 10,000 "Chad" problems again this election just in Duval County alone.

    Here we go again.

    Parent

    Is Florida going to be a vile mess all over again? (none / 0) (#96)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Sep 29, 2012 at 03:50:12 PM EST


    Parent
    This is (none / 0) (#14)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 03:44:29 PM EST
    why I think the GOP is hoping the debates turn things around. This is how it is going to go unless Romney can turn it around with a good debate performance.

    Parent
    What's he gonna say? (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by lilburro on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 03:55:20 PM EST
    How do you recover from the 47% video?  It is hard for me to see an area where Obama is weak and Romney is actually stronger.  Even in terms of the economy, Obama's polling is generally better than Romney's and some of Obama's arguments on the economy are sticking (here's some polling in Ohio and Florida on that).  There's nothing Romney has said so far about the economy that has given him an edge on Obama.  If there is a bad jobs report I can see Obama getting flustered, but, I don't know, I'm at a loss otherwise.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#21)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 04:13:53 PM EST
    Obama recovered from his clingers statement. Obama is lucky that Mitt has NO working class appeal because if he did, Obama would be in trouble.

    He might not be able to recover from that video. I don't know. There is a chance with Obama being so thin skinned that Romney could needle him and he could have another "you're likable enough" moment.

    As the saying goes, a week is an eternity in politics. It's kind of like people want to fire Obama but aren't finding Romney an acceptable alternative.

    When the story is written after the November elections we'll see where it all washes out. If Romney loses, it might be that the video cost him everything.

    Parent

    He did recover from clingers (none / 0) (#25)
    by lilburro on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 04:29:01 PM EST
    and the differences between that statement and Mitt's dismissal have been discussed elsewhere.  

    Obama's comment about "likable enough" hit home because of the sexism that was being hurled at Hillary for being cold, or shrill or whatever.  I don't think Mitt has anything similar working against him unless he wants to project a put-upon white guy image but again, his class puts him far out from the stereotypical white working guy cardboard cutout and there's not really a connection there.  Also, hopefully Obama has learned some lessons from those 2008 debates!!  I recall his GE debates being pretty solid.

    Parent

    When (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 05:03:00 PM EST
    I'm talking about "likable enough" I'm talking about the distinct attitude that went along with it. Taking the sexism out of it, it was not a good moment for Obama. Also Obama can turn into that lecturing professor like he did in town halls that hurt him.

    Maybe Obama has learned something. I hope he is practicing debating.

    I know what Nate Silver and everybody says but I wouldn't write anybody off because I've seen so much over the years. I remember back in 2000 people were saying that George W. Bush was going to have a landslide and didn't even win the popular vote due to the fact that he had a drunk driving arrest. You just never know until it's all over.

    Parent

    Sorry, but these dipsh*ts (5.00 / 0) (#92)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 03:08:38 PM EST
    voted in GWB for eight years. They need somebody to lecture and "talk down" to them. Or do the sixth grade over again..

    I still say most of that Obama-looks-down-on-people meme is just a backhanded way of saying Uppity.

    Imho, If people were more comfortable with educated black men in leadership positions, they wouldn't be talking anywhere near as much about Obama's "arrogance".

    Parent

    So what you're (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by sj on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 04:10:23 PM EST
    saying is that you can never call an arrogant, black wo/man arrogant?  Or are you saying that an arrogant, white wo/man is really just uppity?  

    What's your point?  That some people are racist?  Yup, that's true.  So is your point that only non-racist people can judge whether a wo/man of color is arrogant or not?  

    To me it sounds like you're giving a pass to arrogant wo/men of color because someone out there might be racist.

    And I say this as a person of color.  Who might, from time to time, display a teensy weensy bit of arrogance...

    Parent

    "Never" (none / 0) (#95)
    by jondee on Fri Sep 28, 2012 at 03:15:46 PM EST
    and always: my two least favorite words..

     

    Parent

    And (none / 0) (#66)
    by lentinel on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 07:54:42 PM EST
    then there was "sweetie". Another stinkeroo.

    Obama ick.

    Parent

    "likeable enough" (none / 0) (#26)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 04:37:00 PM EST
    wasn't sexist in any way.  

    Parent
    No, it wasn't. (5.00 / 4) (#28)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 04:50:22 PM EST
    It was just rude.

    Parent
    Damning with faint praise (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by brodie on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 05:50:50 PM EST
    maybe with mild undertones of sexism (by calling her in that cute response by her first name rather than "Sen Clinton").

    Parent
    Obama (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by lentinel on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 08:01:12 PM EST
    called everybody by their first names. Joe, John... everybody.

    It was very calculated.

    Parent

    Donald (none / 0) (#73)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 08:38:38 PM EST
    Rude it was.  I'll concede that.

    Parent
    if you were to read carefully (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by lilburro on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 05:07:05 PM EST
    you would find that I didn't say that it was.

    Parent
    Just (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by lentinel on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 07:45:51 PM EST
    mean-spirited and kinda dumb.

    Parent
    Obama debated two dozen times (none / 0) (#31)
    by brodie on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 04:58:42 PM EST
    in the primaries plus the three GE debates and has been prepping now for weeks.  No excuse for not being ready and for allowing Romney to get back into the race.

    I'd expect at worst a draw on points and style, thus a win for O.

    Someone can remind me who is playing Romney for the prep.

    Parent

    "who is playing Romney for the prep" (none / 0) (#35)
    by NYShooter on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 05:10:57 PM EST
    I believe they're exhuming Ronnie Reagan for that role. I think I heard that they'll be using the chair Clint introduced at the convention. (being 82, Clint thought Reagan was actually going to come out and surprise everyone.)

    No, really.

    Parent

    Kerry? (none / 0) (#36)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 05:13:20 PM EST


    Parent
    If true, that's a mistake (none / 0) (#38)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 05:18:07 PM EST
    I thought I heard they were using Van Hollen? But I think Sheldon Whitehouse would be better prep than anyone.

    Parent
    Well I had to squander (none / 0) (#41)
    by brodie on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 05:24:02 PM EST
    2.06 seconds of my time to google up the correct answer of John Kerry (formerly Andrew Jackson in a previous life).

    Apparently O is leaving Sunday for three days of intensive debate prep in Henderson, NV.  Hmm, Henderson:  never been there myself.  Been to Reno, Las Vegas, and of course Area 51 (or as close as I could get without being legally shot).

    O's team is apparently trying to undersell his overall prep time to lower debate expectations, like he's only gonna have real time to prepare in those three days.  

    Sure.

    Parent

    I lived in Henderson (none / 0) (#45)
    by sj on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 05:47:15 PM EST
    as a small child.  For about a year, I think.  I have only very vague memories, but in any case it's basically just a residential a suburb of Las Vegas.  

    Parent
    Kerry? (none / 0) (#46)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 05:50:05 PM EST
    Why would he pick Kerry? I would think that there are much better choices.

    Parent
    Why not? He's smart, experienced, (none / 0) (#49)
    by brodie on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 05:57:40 PM EST
    knows the issues and like Rumney he's a MA pol and a man of considerable means.  As a Bay Stater he probably also has some good insights, and juicy inside info, from the Mittster's goobernatorial years.

    Parent
    Maybe so. (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 05:59:31 PM EST
    I guess the bay state connection would be the biggest plus for Kerry but as far as knowing something, it would seem that if Kerry knew something, he would have already told the Obama campaign team.

    Parent
    Plus, forgot to mention, (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by brodie on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 06:09:28 PM EST
    Kerry's experience and proven ability in presidential debates. His thumping of W in three straight debates should have been more consequential, but the MSM was in the tank for the Crawford Coward, and Karl Rove had certain creative plans about the votes in OH and FL.

    Parent
    I (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by lentinel on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 07:42:42 PM EST
    watched those debates - but they were different than the debates you watched.

    Kerry NEVER confronted Bush about lying about the WMD. Even Powell admitted that he had doubts about the bs he was about to sling at the UN.

    Another thing that would have sunk Bush would have been if Kerry had made an issue out of Bush's absolutely stomach turning performance at the correspondents dinner - where he made light of the fact that there were no WMDs - while young people that he sent into that hellhole were killing and being killed.

    Instead, he let Bush come off as "likable". He let one of the most despicable rogues in the history of the USA come off as likable.
    A torturer. A lier. And Kerry tiptoed. No anger.

    Kerry can play Romney alright.
    So could a broomstick.

    Parent

    Hah! Andrew Jackson indeed (none / 0) (#71)
    by DFLer on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 08:24:56 PM EST
    (first time I've heard that)


    Parent
    Wish it was my original insight. (none / 0) (#74)
    by brodie on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 08:43:42 PM EST
    But no, it was the author of that Return of the Revoltionaries book from a decade ago, the group reincarnation guy and former top Union (76) Oil exec who believes he was John Adams previously.

    Obama, interestingly, was 19th C Illinois Sen Lyman Trumbull, a party switcher who as chairman of the senate Judiciary Comm'ee was a principal author of the 13th Amendment.

    Ben Franklin is now Dean Kamen, inventor of the Segway etc.  Bill Clinton was the first president of the Continental Congress (name escapes me).  Al Gore was Rev War Gen Horatio Gates.  Google sites to get pix of old paintings and compare facial features.

    Group reincarnation is a reality, and face remains largely the same except as influenced by parental genes.  Personality is different.  Entertaining stuff to contemplate, if a tad controversial in spots.  

    Parent

    Kerry kinda looks like him too (none / 0) (#75)
    by DFLer on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 08:58:35 PM EST
    especially if he'd grow out his hair.

    Parent
    Oh here's a link (none / 0) (#76)
    by brodie on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 08:59:11 PM EST
    to get started for those interested.  My kinda diversion.  Hardened skeptics will not be amused.

    Parent
    Romney has a new ad going up Friday (5.00 / 0) (#32)
    by CoralGables on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 04:58:47 PM EST
    The DNC has hijacked and butchered it before it even airs

    Is like the great (none / 0) (#58)
    by MKS on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 06:40:54 PM EST
    ad "Echo" that Jerry Brown ran in 2010 against Meg Whitman.  Great and funny campaign by Jerry Brown.

    Link

    Parent

    They (none / 0) (#86)
    by lentinel on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 04:27:12 AM EST
    should have a debate between the ads.

    Parent
    RIP, Andy Williams (1928-2012). (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 05:14:45 PM EST
    The popular crooner from the 1960s died at home at age 84, after a year-long bout with bladder cancer. My mother really liked him, especially his cover of "Moon River."

    (Personally, "Moon River" always made me want to stick my finger down my throat -- although I did like the time Edith Bunker (Jean Stapleton) singing that song on All in the Family in a bathroom with a busted door, after husband Archie (Carroll O'Conner) sugested that nobody would come anywhere near that bathroom if she sang while using the toilet.)

    Now, some 35 years later, Williams' ex-wife Claudine Longet is once again fair game.

    Williams' version of Moon River (none / 0) (#44)
    by brodie on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 05:43:36 PM EST
    would be among my earliest musical memories.  He was all over the radio in the early 60s and all over the tv for the entire decade.  Great voice, and not unwelcome to see on our family tv screen. Sang at RFK's funeral.

    Parent
    Everybody Panic!!! (none / 0) (#1)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 01:55:48 PM EST
    Britain's NPA says we're looking at an unavoidable bacon shortage next year.  Droughts leading to high feed costs leading to thinner herds.

    Stock your freezers, fellow swine lovers....you've been warned.

    D@mn (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Yman on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 02:58:06 PM EST
    Love me some bacon, but I'm more worried about what this will do to the price of pork loins and butts.  Grilled tenderloins is one of the few meats all of the kiddies like, and I really love pulled pork sandwiches with onion/bacon marmalade.

    Parent
    Buy pork now (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Zorba on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 03:03:54 PM EST
    And stock your freezer.  See my post #8.
    Actually, I told Mr. Zorba this was going to happen, way back when the drought conditions started getting severe earlier this year.  He agreed.
    Fortunately, our freezer is well-stocked with venison.  Haven't heard of anyone making venison bacon, but we've got a ton of tasty venison sausage.   ;-)

    Parent
    Pork won't be as bad as beef though (none / 0) (#90)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 10:21:04 AM EST
    Because pigs can and will and do and are equipped to eat just about anything.  It is easier to get creative.  During this drought we may all end up eating more pork.  We have a new restaurant here that serves some goat dishes, and goats are also easier to feed during challenging feed times.  I have never lived anywhere where goat was a socially accepted meat source though.  I think here it is still considered exotic.  This drought may change a lot of food social acceptance.

    Parent
    i actually (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by CST on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 12:04:27 PM EST
    Really like goat.  I love the fact that I live in an area with a lot of "weird" food.  Should be plenty of options!  I wonder if we're running low on ox tail...  Plus there's always the ocean.

    Parent
    Dang. My mouth is watering just (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 04:53:52 PM EST
    reading the recipe.

    Parent
    Just made some this weekend (none / 0) (#40)
    by Yman on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 05:23:31 PM EST
    The onion/bacon marmalade puts it over the top.  There's a restaurant near here that makes a pulled-pork sandwich with the marmalade and manchego cheese ... really good.  The marmalade is great by itself on baguette slices.  Kind'uv a pain to make, since it takes a couple of hours to cook down, and you have to watch it carefully near the end so it doesn't burn/scorch.

    Parent
    I make something (none / 0) (#51)
    by Zorba on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 06:06:00 PM EST
    very similar to this, which I use on toasted good bread (bruschetta, basically) or nan.  The real trick is to make sure that the onions are caramelized.
    Caramelize those onions, people!  And it takes a whole lot longer than most recipes say.  Long, slow cooking.  I could eat caramelized onions with a spoon, they are so good!

    Parent
    Absolutely (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Yman on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 06:30:45 PM EST
    I usually make a batch 1.5X the size of that recipe (using about 6 pounds of onions) in a dutch oven.  It usually takes @ 3 hours to cook it down and get it carmelized, although you only have to pay attention once the liquid is mostly cooked away.

    But it's worth the wait!  :)

    Parent

    It certainly is, Yman! (none / 0) (#65)
    by Zorba on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 07:50:24 PM EST
    Yum!

    Parent
    It's all because of that bacon on the field (none / 0) (#2)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 02:12:06 PM EST
    incident in NY!

    Parent
    I had a feeling... (none / 0) (#5)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 02:16:13 PM EST
    self-appointed health czar Bloomberg was somehow behind this;)

    Parent
    Kdog, it isn't just bacon (none / 0) (#8)
    by Zorba on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 03:00:36 PM EST
    Drought conditions in the US are going to lead to an increase in
    retail prices for beef, pork, poultry, and dairy products first and foremost - later this year and into 2013. But in the short term, drought conditions may lead to herd culling in response to higher feed costs, and short term increases in meat supply. This could decrease prices for some meat products in the short term. That trend would reverse over time after product supplies shrink.

    according to a USDA report.
    In other words, in the short term, buy your pork, beef, and poultry products soon, because the farmers have sold/are selling off their stock early because feed is scarce and they can't afford to feed them.  Stock your freezers.  It's going to be more expensive later, because they're sending their breeding stock to market.
    Vegans can rejoice, but carnivores, take note.  ;-)

    Parent
    Well Mrs Zorba (none / 0) (#10)
    by CoralGables on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 03:15:53 PM EST
    assist the uninformed. What's the lifespan on the  different varieties of frozen man food?

    Parent
    Well, according to (none / 0) (#13)
    by Zorba on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 03:42:16 PM EST
    official recommendations (see: this), it's anywhere from 2 months for sausage, 3 months for organ meats, 4 months for the "whiter" meats (poultry, veal, pork) to 6 months for red meat and fish.
    However, we have eaten sausage and bacon frozen for 6 months or more, "white" meats, fish, and red meats up to a year old or a bit more, and, I must say, venison up to a year and a half old.  You may get a bit of freezer burn (cut that off before using), but that's less of a concern if it is very well packaged in airtight packaging, and your freezer is very, very cold and maintains its temperature.  And I wouldn't keep organ meats very long- they do degrade a lot in flavor.

    Please note:  I am not a food scientist, and you should in no way take this as "official" advice.  I'm just telling you our experience.  Plus, I don't want to be sued.   ;-)  

    Parent

    PS (none / 0) (#16)
    by Zorba on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 03:46:16 PM EST
    This doesn't apply to dairy products, though.  Milk, yogurt and sour cream really, really don't take to freezing.  You can freeze butter (if you use it) and grated or crumbled cheese (I'm talking the harder cheeses, like Parmesan, Romano, and even cheddar, although I have also frozen crumbled feta) for many months, but not forever.

    Parent
    I've actually frozen (none / 0) (#18)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 03:49:09 PM EST
    cheddar for a while and it was fine.

    Oh, boy, this is all need--for my food budget to be going up. It's not like things aren't very tight already.

    Parent

    Yes, I have (none / 0) (#22)
    by Zorba on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 04:16:38 PM EST
    also frozen sold chunks of cheddar, Swiss cheese, myzithra (a Greek grating cheese) and even feta.  They're perfectly okay to use after freezing, but, to my taste, not quite as good as fresh.  They last better, and longer, when frozen after they are grated.

    Parent
    My local news just told me that bacon can (none / 0) (#59)
    by caseyOR on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 06:45:19 PM EST
    be frozen for up to 1 year if it is wrapped airtight. So, does this mean all bacon lovers should all invest in a food saver? Because just using a ziplock bag is not airtight, right?

    I've frozen bacon for 6 months and not noticed any appreciable degradation in taste. I don't think I've kept anything in freezer for a year.

    Also, I read that frost-free freezers, like the ones most of us have as part of our refrigerators, do not get cold enough to thoroughly freeze stuff that will then last for a year. If you want frozen food to last a long long time, get a separate deepfreeze.

    A favorite autumn dish: brussels sprouts sautéed with bacon and shallots. I love it.

    Parent

    For long-lasting frozen foods, (none / 0) (#62)
    by Zorba on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 07:28:10 PM EST
    for pity's sake, don't use a frost-free freezer, casey!  You are absolutely correct. Get a separate deep freezer!  Frost-free freezers cycle on and off- not good at all for long-term freezing.
    I also use a vacuu