Wednesday Morning Open Thread

I'll be on Daily Kos Radio with Jesse LaGreca today at 11 Eastern. Listen here. (Tech should not be an issue today.)

Open Thread.

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    Your morning Charlie Pierce (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 09:50:45 AM EST
    I'm telling you, nothing says "Fighting The Culture Of Dependency" quite like raising a couple of hundred thou' from a casino operator. Ever been to Tunica, Paul? Ever seen the poor folks, pumping quarters into the slots for eight hours a day? Believe me, they're more the victims of a culture of dependency than, say, you were, when I was helping to send you to college with my tax dollars. At this point, really, we're just haggling about the price.

    Read it all

    My boy Pierce... (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 10:23:31 AM EST
    does have a way with words, doesn't he?  

    Not that it's difficult to point out what frauds Romney & Ryan are, a third grader can see that...but Charles is the master.


    Pierce will be immortal (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:05:07 PM EST
    IMO solely on the basis of having coined the moniker "C-Plus Augustus" for George W.

    We had a big fight about what Biden (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 10:32:18 AM EST
    said last night, about the "Put Yáll in chains"".  My husband tried to tell me that the use of Yáll is how I can tell for certain that Biden was using a double entendre.  When I use Yáll I've been pretty certain that the only thing I have going on is being lazy folksy.  Something Biden has been good at in the past :)

    I can't wait to tell him when he gets home that heard the dog whistle cuz he's a DAWG!  He didn't really hear the whistle though, he heard the outrage and bought it.

    I will have to find the audio (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 12:36:39 PM EST
    I thought I heard it on NPR this morning and it did not scream out to me as being a real southern style y'all. More like a 'you all'. Of course if he were from the midwest it would have been 'you guys'!

    Most notably it was NOT 'all of us' .


    What would they have said ... (none / 0) (#102)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 06:20:21 PM EST
    ... had Biden used the New York plural of "you," and in "yuse"?

    Well, as a Midwesterner, (none / 0) (#104)
    by Zorba on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 06:42:55 PM EST
    I would have been more comfortable with, as ruffian said, "you guys."   ;-)  

    Well, Biden IS from Delaware, which ... (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 07:39:20 PM EST
    ... WAS actually considered part of the South, prior to the U.S. Civil War, since it's below the Mason-Dixon Line.

    Delaware was one of the four slave states that remained in the Union when the other eleven seceded -- the other three being Maryland, Kentucky and Missouri. Further, it was the only one of those four which actually did so voluntarily, since its legislature formally voted to kill the secession ordinance proposed by that state's pro-Confederacy lawmakers on January 3, 1861.

    So, the use of the regional term "you all" isn't really all that much of a stretch for Joe Biden.


    Really (none / 0) (#122)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:09:39 PM EST
    And is there some habit I'm unware of where "y'all" is only for black folks?  I don't think so.  He was in the South, he lapsed into what he thinks is Southern usage.

    Ahhh, actually (none / 0) (#135)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 07:51:45 AM EST
    He was bornin Scranton, PA and lived there for 10 years (his "formative" years) before moving to Delaware, so he probably grew up with something like "yuzz / youse."

    "yinz" (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 09:17:08 AM EST
    Many of us here in Maryland refer to the state on our northern border as "Pennsyltucky."

    Yinz (none / 0) (#140)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 09:19:31 AM EST
    Is more of a western Pennsylvania thing.  Philly et al has more of the east coast accent.

    And then of course, there's "Bal-mer"....


    I don't think Scranton is in eastern PA. (none / 0) (#142)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 09:39:56 AM EST
    I'll grant you that it's more common in Pittsburgh, but it's not uncommon in the I83 corridor.

    Here, it's "youse," but don't get me started on Bawlmer-ese and the hatchet it takes to what most of us think of as "English!"


    It is in NE (none / 0) (#148)
    by lilburro on Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 04:02:52 PM EST
    I grew up a bit south of there, we said "youse" or "youse guys."  Now that I live in the South I can thankfully get away with y'all which sounds nicer to me.

    Here we go again. Bill Clintom.re Obama (none / 0) (#6)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 10:37:46 AM EST
    winning South Carolina primary.

    Campaigns will always attempt certain things (none / 0) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 10:46:47 AM EST
    In this case it would seem to be a seizure of horrible desperation.  Have you ever seen a Presidential race crap out like this even before convention?

    He was kidding around... (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 10:47:24 AM EST
    with the Republicans as the butt of the joke.

    If the joke hurts, look within.  Or better yet, zing 'em back...with something like "Joe Biden's signature on crime legislation has helped put more black people in chains than Mitt Romney has money."


    The audience in fact (none / 0) (#120)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:06:32 PM EST
    laughed, if you get to hear the clip anywhere else but Fox, where they cut it off before that.

    What do expect (none / 0) (#147)
    by NYShooter on Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 12:55:32 PM EST
     From an audience that, often, pays money to listen to his talks and then gets arrested (not merely escorted out) when they have the temerity to ask an impertinent question?

    Biden has always had (none / 0) (#121)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:07:45 PM EST
    foot in mouth disease since forever.  And the audience was half white, so it seems quite a stretch to me to impute some sort of racial dog whistle to it.

    Ann Romney says no more tax returns (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Yman on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 10:55:00 AM EST
    When you pay next to nothing... (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by Dadler on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:01:41 AM EST
    ...what is there to return?  Ahem.

    Leave poor Ann alone, she's suffered enough.


    Yeah! You people need to leave her be. (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 06:05:49 PM EST
    After all, hasn't she and Mittens given you people enough, already? Honestly, what more do you people want? You people are grating on her nerves.

    We pesky (none / 0) (#117)
    by cal1942 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 10:53:38 PM EST
    little people.

    Got to love (5.00 / 4) (#17)
    by CoralGables on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:04:09 AM EST
    that she keeps the hidden tax returns in the news like this.

    She explained (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Yman on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:18:02 AM EST
    After saying "There's nothing we're hiding", she went on to explain the couple's reticence to release more information, adding, "It will just give them more ammunition."

    If they're going to send her out with these statements, she'll need more preparation.



    The most concerning statement (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by shoephone on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:20:29 AM EST
    is the one she keeps repeating in interviews, about how "Mitt is going to save America."

    It doesn't get much freakier than that.


    Save it from what and for whom? (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 06:07:53 PM EST
    From "you people"?

    Maybe (none / 0) (#151)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 17, 2012 at 08:11:12 AM EST
    They can help this lady.

    Save THEIR America n/t (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by cal1942 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 10:54:51 PM EST
    Saw that for the first time ... (none / 0) (#30)
    by Yman on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:35:27 AM EST
    ... in that interview.  A savior complex ... literally.

    Oyyyy ....


    Yeah (none / 0) (#149)
    by cal1942 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 05:57:13 PM EST
    sort of like the (what has to be Luntz inspired) phrase

    Job Creators


    Well then (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:19:21 AM EST
    Get back in your stall before she gets out that double bit and teaches you a thing or two :)  Dance Yman....Dance!

    Uh, oh ... (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Yman on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:38:06 AM EST
    Now I'm getting an image of her in breeches with a riding crop.

    Ewwwww ....  :)


    Geez, I had that image (none / 0) (#125)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:15:07 PM EST
    of her before I ever heard of the actual horse.

    Tracy, did you see the Colbert satire (none / 0) (#25)
    by shoephone on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:22:03 AM EST
    on dressage? It's hilarious!

    I saw part of it (none / 0) (#115)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 09:43:17 PM EST
    Kos Radio today (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by brodie on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 10:59:24 AM EST
    still sounds like a few guys in the garage using tin cans and some string.  At least in the first ten minutes, at which time I bailed out of frustration.  Got quite a ways to go before you reach NPR's gold standard level for audio production.

    Today I listened to the last 20 minutes (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:14:03 AM EST
    via my iPhone.  I could hear both Armando and Jesse, so that's good.  But Jesse still talks so fast and furious I had flashbacks to listening to Rush Limbaugh on the state car radio.  

    You guys are the toughest crowd to please :) (none / 0) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:27:21 AM EST
    I love them

    I dunno, could be the nasty (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by brodie on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:51:29 AM EST
    heat wave we've been experiencing out here in SoCal perhaps distorting the sound waves.  I've noticed for instance our cable system has been acting up lately.

    No complaints about the able hosts or the content.  Though it would be nice if DKRadio could soon carve out another hour for, say, a female host of liberal sensibility.  With this and the NBC coverage of the Olympics I've been inundated with all-male hosts lately and it's beginning to bother me.


    Can I interest you... (none / 0) (#37)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 12:00:47 PM EST
    in Saudi Arabia's new women-only cities?  j/k

    Seriously though, can apartheid actually be considered progress?  Tough call, but if it can be, it could only happen in Saudi Arabia.


    I really want to like the show. (none / 0) (#29)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:29:15 AM EST
    Keep working at it :) (none / 0) (#31)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:36:49 AM EST
    You have to admit (none / 0) (#32)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:37:28 AM EST
    They have rightwing radio beat right?

    Not yet for me. I prefer Armando's scratch-below- (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 02:49:52 PM EST
    the superficial type of analysis to Jesse's style of say whatever comes into your head.  Of course the GOP and its nominees are outrageous and absolutely wrong. What else is new. Tell us why and what to do about it.

    Man drops his gun in Nev. theater ... (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Yman on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:09:18 AM EST
    Wonder if it was Redwolf! (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 12:30:42 PM EST
    Was he the one that said here that he takes guns to movie theaters?

    Was the first thing ... (none / 0) (#57)
    by Yman on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 01:57:04 PM EST
    ... I thought of when I read the headline.

    I'm jsut going to go with that in my own mind (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 04:01:17 PM EST
    Hey, give the guy credit (5.00 / 4) (#83)
    by NYShooter on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 04:00:44 PM EST
    He found, and shot, the one dangerous person in the theater.

    have They Pulled His... (none / 0) (#86)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 04:04:35 PM EST
    ...conservative credentials yet ?

    which just goes to show (none / 0) (#24)
    by CoralGables on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:20:44 AM EST
    They don't always get away.

    Who's better than karma?....n/t (none / 0) (#27)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:26:46 AM EST
    Somebody pulled a Burress . . (none / 0) (#26)
    by nycstray on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:23:19 AM EST
    What an idiot (none / 0) (#44)
    by lilburro on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 12:43:16 PM EST
    I hope they prosecute to the fullest extent of the law.  So ridiculous.  George W Bush is out of office and yet I feel like we live in more of a cowboy country than ever.  I don't like it.

    Easy now... (none / 0) (#46)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 12:49:53 PM EST
    if he was in NY, he would be prosecuted and might get over a year's cage time, if he got the Plaxico treatment anyway.

    My opinion, karma handled this knucklehead quite well on her own, no need to pile on.  If he had shot somebody, that would be a different story.


    I think there should be a hefty fine (5.00 / 4) (#52)
    by nycstray on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 01:06:06 PM EST
    and a suspension of his CC. After all this BS from folks about how responsible (and savior-like) CC folks are, I certainly would hope they secure their guns better. Could you imagine sitting next to this guy? Or, if it was another crowded premiere night? I mean it was just DUMB LUCK the bullet hit him, as we all know, the floor ain't such a good  aim . . .  and he should be thankful there wasn't another CC guy in the audience with a trigger happy shoot the bad guy bad a** mentality,  . . .

    Dumb luck... (none / 0) (#55)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 01:40:32 PM EST
    is all we really got kid, dumb luck and illusions.

    Just yesterday a house blew up in my neighborhood, literally 5-6 blocks away.  An infant died and 17 people injured.  Horrible.  They think it was the propane tanks but they're still investigating.  Point being, by the grace of god we all go.  Yeah, it would be cool if the world wasn't populated by so many inconsiderate arseholes, but I really don't think giving the tyrannical arseholes more weapons is gonna get us anywhere.  And we can always take heart that the considerate still vastly outnumber the inconsiderate...its just that the inconsiderate get all the press.


    It was only dumb luck because he (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by nycstray on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 04:28:05 PM EST
    was shot. If someone else was shot, not so much. And it's not dumb luck to knowingly carry a CW not properly secured.

    Seems to me he should have to deal with the consequences of his actions (beyond the self-inflicted wound) already on the books, no new weapons there. If he had shot someone else in the a**, what would those have been? (btw, isn't there a safety on a gun to prevent it going off when it hits the floor?) After all, he still accidentally shot someone through his recklessness.


    I'm totally with you... (none / 0) (#95)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 05:26:57 PM EST
    on the guy doing a reckless, stupid thing...but we must always take care not to respond too recklessly, stupidly, or harshly.

    Easy on the punitive is all I'm saying...I'm sure the guy ain't a monster, he's got a family, somebody who loves him.  Shooting himself and forever being known as the butthead who shot himself strapped at the movies works for me.    


    So . . . if he shot someone else (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by nycstray on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 05:50:45 PM EST
    in the same situation, we should do nothing because somebody loves him and it was a totally preventable accident?

    I didn't say to lock him up and throw away the key, but at the very least I would expect to see a decent fine and suspension of his CC permit. Think of it like a bad driver (that's not too harsh  for you is it?) at the least. Gun school again please, until he at least learns HOW to CARRY a gun.

    Not many people will forever know him for this, so that shouldn't be much of a burden on the poor man. Burress fame status he ain't ;)


    I guess I can live with... (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 09:12:30 AM EST
    a fine and loss of permit.  I did say if he shot somebody other than himself it would be a different story.

    He will be forever known in his circles as the moron who shot himself in the arse on movie night.  Sh*t if he was my friend he would never ever hear the end of it, a ball-busting extravaganza till the end of days!


    Well in NY (none / 0) (#51)
    by lilburro on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 01:04:19 PM EST
    maybe this wouldn't happen because he would've thought twice before carrying a firearm to a movie theater.  If you're gonna be careless with a firearm you deserved to be punished IMO.  Karma easily could've found another target.

    He was punished... (none / 0) (#54)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 01:30:55 PM EST
    by his own gun and carelessness.

    We're on the same page with the disturbing pistol packin' cowboy trend...but we may part ways with the criminal justice ringer being any kind of solution.  We'll have a prison population at critical mass, if we aren't already at critical mass because of the criminal justice "solutions" to the problem of drug addiction.

    I do not want to see NYC's draconian gun laws spread nationwide.


    Where The Pro Gun Crowd... (none / 0) (#60)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 02:20:03 PM EST
    ...on this one, they usually can't get out fast enough to comment.

    And I will stand by my statement that with the number of people in the Colorado theater, statistically at least was carrying and decided their pea shooter was no match for a maniac.


    They are also (none / 0) (#62)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 02:30:31 PM EST
    strangely silent on today's shooting - of a security guard at Tony Perkins' Family Research Council here in DC.

    Thankfully, the guard was only shot in the arm and is in stable condition and expected to make a full recovery, and they have the shooter in custody.


    Rove was behind the whole thing... (none / 0) (#69)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 03:04:10 PM EST
    ...you'll see.

    Uhhht...Ohhhh.... (none / 0) (#85)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 04:03:51 PM EST
    ...how are conservative going to deal with the maniacs coming after them ?

    Wonder if he was carrying in the theater (none / 0) (#66)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 02:48:25 PM EST
    in response to Aurora...

    Christ (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:52:08 AM EST
    If you have Conservative friends on your facebook, they will be rabid today.  Out of their minds rabid.  Mine want to fight and fight and fight with me over really stupid crap.

    Look, Obama is winning, Romney is losing, fighting with me over really stupid $hit changes none of that.

    What I've seen from my rightwing FB friends (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by Farmboy on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 12:52:37 PM EST
    is linking and reposting of outright lies. Not opinions, verifiable lies.

    From the golden oldies about birth certificates to newer posts about Obama filing suit to stop the military from voting, there is nothing you can say or point to that will have any positive effect. Evan worse, the theme seems to be that facts are part of the liberal Nazi lie, and citing sources is proof that the lie is actually the truth.

    For example, some of the farmers I know keep posting links to how the House passed the 2012 Farm Bill, but Reid won't let the Senate vote on it. I commented that it's the other way around; that the Senate passed it back in June; and it's the House that hasn't passed it. I provided a couple links to back up the statement, even one to Fox news (thinking they'd find that credible).

    The response: a link to the g.ate.way.pun.dit

    Of course, the liberal media will completely ignore this latest gaffe from President Boy Genius. Obama blasted Paul Ryan for not passing a farm bill to help suffering farmers in Iowa. Um... Paul Ryan and House Republicans passed the farm bill two weeks ago. But, since when did facts matter?

     (no, I won't provide a link to this nonsense)


    Would giving them links to the votes help? (none / 0) (#58)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 02:03:06 PM EST
    To thomas.gov so they can see the status of the bills and which body has or has not voted on it - or would they not even believe that?

    Senate roll call vote

    It never ceases to amaze me how willfully people can cling to these myths and lies; I guess it's more important to maintain one's dislike for a particular party or candidate than it is to focus on the policies at stake.  If they acknowledge that the Senate did pass the Farm Bill, does that equate in their minds to approving of the Democrats who got it to the floor and passed?  Don't they want it to pass?

    I don't get these people, I really don't.


    To some of these folks, until they can take back (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by Farmboy on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 03:21:59 PM EST
    "their" country, an official gov't statement is almost always* a lie.

    * Unless, of course, the gov't speaker is a member of the GOP. Then it's patriotic gospel, and questioning the validity of it is blasphemy.

    So, if Obama says that the House hasn't passed the 2012 farm bill, then of course they actually have. He is the head of the gov't (thanks to ACORN), therefore, he's lying.

    And when Boehner says that Obama needs to accept personal responsibility for the record drought, well, just look out the window - you can see for yourself there's a drought. Therefore, Boehner is telling the truth. And thanks for burning up the crops, Obama, you big meanie.


    It seldom helps (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by cal1942 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:18:48 PM EST
    to provide a link to a roll call vote or anything else that disproves their story.  These people often refuse to use the links.

    I've noticed some right-wing emails will claim their story is verified by Snopes but they never provide a link.  The email gets recirculated with the claim that Snopes verified up front.

    These people have no interest whatever in factual information. They're frustrated and can't really explain the world around them so they've staked out their own world and want nothing to interfere with that fantasy world.

    When you correct them with irrefutable fact they get angry.  I do it now just to see how pi$$ed off they can become.


    Fox (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:23:40 PM EST
    This is the way this stuff is presented on Fox-- day after day after day.

    They live in their own version (none / 0) (#59)
    by Zorba on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 02:19:31 PM EST
    of Fantasyland.  They continue to believe what they want to believe, despite all evidence to the contrary.  And, as I've said before, they continue to vote against their own self-interests.

    Right wing friends (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 04:14:17 PM EST
    I am bored, I need some of those friends.  All my friends are in the same bubble.  

    I need to pick a fight.  


    People don't have to share my views (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 08:17:10 PM EST
    in order for me to respect them as human beings.  And some of my views aren't exactly bleeding heart liberal.  But wow, when I say that America must have affordable healthcare and we must challenge ourselves to get beyond race and sexual orientation and we must end the welfare to the filthy rich......and then my candidate is smoking the electoral votes, I will be throttled.  Too God damn bad though huh?  That's what I say.

    Most of my rightwing friends I accumulated by (none / 0) (#98)
    by Farmboy on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 05:54:46 PM EST
    growing up in a rural area. They're not stereotypical "I got mine so bugger off" right-wingers - they'd show up without a complaint to get your crop out if you needed help - but they have a serious disconnect in seeing the difference between say, food stamps and farm subsidies.

    They'll tell you that they earned that fat subsidy check by not growing corn this year. But poor families getting food stamps, they're all just lazy and don't deserve anything.

    And I try not to fight with them - it's too much like the Monty Python "Argument Clinic" sketch.


    Can somebody explain to me why (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:25:45 PM EST
    VT farmers-- not the crunchy organic newcomers from Mass. and NY, but Xth generation VT farmers-- are not this way, unlike apparently all other rural folks?

    I'm deepiy grateful for it, but I haven't a clue what's different about them that makes them so totally different.


    And it's a slippery slope from ... (none / 0) (#101)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 06:17:58 PM EST
    ... the "Argument Clinic" to a "Commie Rant."



    Is there new polling out? (none / 0) (#38)
    by lilburro on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 12:01:46 PM EST
    I see Romney is going "negative."  I wonder if that charge will ever stick to Obama, I would think he'd be easily able to speechify himself out of it if necessary.

    Romeny is such an (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by jondee on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 01:54:27 PM EST
    incredible, Stepfordian stiff..

    What the hell does he have "up there" (and by "up there" I don't mean between his ears..)

    A european flying squirrel? A sugar glider? A diorama of Brigham Young at home with his 15 wives?


    Some of it (none / 0) (#40)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 12:22:37 PM EST
    is sticking but the problem is it's not like people really like Romney either.

    I don't know how much "like" is going to affect the election but whatever sale Romney was able to make on the economy just went down the drain with the Ryan pick.


    On the Today Show... (none / 0) (#61)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 02:25:25 PM EST
    ...some Romney putz was insisting that Obama was dragging them into the mud.  And Savannah didn't even bother to mention that one can't be dragged into the mud, it's a purposeful action that takes a lot of planning.

    Right...because it's not as if we don't (none / 0) (#64)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 02:38:30 PM EST
    know that "the mud" is where Republicans live, I guess.

    Funniest - well, it's not actually "funny" - clip I saw was the one where Romney was whipping up the crowd by saying that Obama was going to end Medicare as we know it.  

    I know that pols are pols and do what they do, but it takes some kind of chutzpah-on-steroids to look people in the eye and make that accusation when your own running mate has a plan that everyone can see actually does end it.

    But maybe the "people" in the crowd weren't people, but alien beings from the same Planet Insane that Romney's from, and that explains their goggle-eyed enthusiasm.  Which makes me wonder...are we sure George Romney didn't find Mitt in a cornfield somewhere?


    One of These Days... (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 04:15:03 PM EST
    ...we are going to miss GWB, I guarantee it.  I thought after him the insanity would die down, but it's doubled.  I just hope that day isn't in November.

    It's important to remember (none / 0) (#131)
    by cal1942 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:48:36 PM EST
    that George Romney was a man of his times.  The center was New Deal activist government and Republicans couldn't get elected to statewide office in Michigan in those days unless they were quite moderate or even liberal.  In the 6 years Romney was Governor of Michigan all other statewide elected officials were Democrats.

    But Mitt was raised in an elitist household.  When the public was less aware of more obscure political acts George Romney could be quite Conservative.  Before he was governor he was the vice president of the Michigan Constitutional convention which wrote a document that forbade graduated taxes.  That's been a problem in regards to state revenue ever since.


    What are they doing? (none / 0) (#41)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 12:24:26 PM EST
    A lot of mine seem to have calmed down lately. One of the nuttiest ones I just hid her updates.

    They have a lot of vids (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 07:57:50 PM EST
    Of Obama saying this or that. I haven't watched any of them because that isn't the point, and if you have a point to make...make it.  I don't need to sit here all day and watch your videos searching for what you are trying to say.

    Then there's my husband's PE teacher best friend since childhood from Michigan.  I honestly don't know what's wrong with that guy other than Michigan looks likes it is swinging true blue this go around and it's my fault.  He's a tea bagger and he's a teacher, how does that work?  Oh yeah....he's a PE teacher.  Nobody ever wasted my time in high school like some PE teacher who had to teach the easiest class that the faculty could find for him.  He is also one of my facebook rocket science friends who doesn't understand that the U.S. military is a socialist subculture.  Who do they give teaching certificates to these days?  Josh knows more about political science than a Michigan PE teacher.

    My old roommate too is losing his mind just a tad, and people voted for him :)  They'd probably still vote for him, it is Wyoming.  He's smart though.  He probably has his tantrums hidden from everyone else on his facebook.  He's just tantruming at the Libs, and if anyone finds out, Wyoming generally likes that at this time :)


    Almost (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 07:16:01 AM EST
    all my friends who love the tea party are either state or federal employees. So i'm not surprised to hear that the guy in MI is too.

    Excuse me while I LMAO (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by nycstray on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 10:47:04 PM EST
    McCain says Obama Would Be 'Wise' to Replace Joe Biden with Hillary Clinton on the Ticket

    I guess he's forgotten about his VP pick and what comes out of her mouth . . .

    Any monkey wrench will do (none / 0) (#130)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:30:58 PM EST
    To slow down this a$$ whooping momentum.

    This is (none / 0) (#133)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 07:14:17 AM EST
    the new GOP talking point. I'm not sure what it's supposed to accomplish though. It just sounds more conspiracy theory than anything.

    A love story (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 09:24:02 AM EST
    that you can now experience in Chicago - a plaque marking the spot where the Obamas shared their first kiss.

    The best part of the story is this:

    Though the Baskin-Robbins the Obamas visited has been replaced with a Subway sandwich shop, there is a different Baskin-Robbins a few doors down in the same shopping center. Some suggested that the site could become a popular spot for first dates and even marriage proposals.

    But things are a lot different today than they were back in 1989.

    Fifteen-year-old Justen Jackson, a ninth-grader at Hyde Park Academy, said it would be hard to find a girl who would be impressed with a first date at an ice cream shop.

    "It's nice, but I wouldn't bring anyone here on a first date," Justen said. "They're going to want to go somewhere better than Subway or Baskin-Robbins."

    Hey - what's wrong with Baskin-Robbins?

    Dear God (none / 0) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 10:10:19 AM EST
    Your collection of shared audio blurbs is hilarious today!!!

    I wish (none / 0) (#3)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 10:21:52 AM EST
    I had time to listen.

    Curiosity (none / 0) (#7)
    by Cylinder on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 10:38:16 AM EST
    From the MSL teleconference:

    Software update completed without signifigant issues. Surface software is installed and running on both computers.

    MSL's Chemcam laser is slated to be tested this week. Commisioning team is around halfway through with the checkout process. The last to be tested will be the robotic arm.

    JPL began the first 24-hour weather observation from another planet yesterday using the Spanish REMS sensor suite.

    Curiosity is still slated to roll out of its landing position in 5 days for a short test drive.

    Confused (none / 0) (#8)
    by sj on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 10:46:08 AM EST
    Why Jesse Jackson Jr go into seclusion because of bipolar disorder and why is his treatment for it "news"?

    We had a soldier friend go through it (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 10:48:28 AM EST
    Not something I would want anyone I care about going through in the public eye if they were a public figure.  Peace to him and his family though.  This is not an easy thing.

    Agree (none / 0) (#12)
    by sj on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 10:49:45 AM EST
    His disappearance (none / 0) (#13)
    by CoralGables on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 10:52:36 AM EST
    made it a bigger story than it should have been. Elected officials aren't supposed to up and disappear. Ask Mark Sanford about that.

    Agree. Public figures (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by brodie on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:05:49 AM EST
    should expect their sudden disappearance from their job to be reported.  Goes with the territory.  And that's as it should be.  If I were one of his constituents I'd want to know why he's been absent from his job.

    That makes sense (none / 0) (#45)
    by sj on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 12:49:01 PM EST
    I guess I'm just baffled as to all the secrecy in the first place.  Is there a stigma related to bipolar?

    Yes, as in most cases of mental illness. (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 06:39:51 PM EST
    My elder sister, who lives in France, is bipolar. At age 40, she gave birth to her son and fell into a rather severe bout of postpartum depression, which led her doctors to search for the reason why. (This is why I like French medicine -- French doctors look for reasons, and not excuses.)

    Prior to her diagnosis, most people -- including, sorry to say, many of us in her own family -- tended to chalk up her extreme mood swings to her being "flaky" and "unstable," because most of her doctors in the 1960s and '70s simply didn't know a lot about cause and effect of mental illness. Now we know definitively that her mood swings have a physical origin, and she's since been successfully treated for it and she no longer suffers from those manic swings in mood and behavior.

    There shouldn't be a stigma to being bipolar, but there most definitely is. And unfortunately, the Jackson family just inadvertantly reinforced it with all the secrecy. That said, I wish the congressman and his family nothing but my best wishes as they deal with this problem. I hope to see him back soon.


    Especially Politicians... (none / 0) (#63)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 02:33:44 PM EST
    ...I always though Giffords should have stepped down after the incident.  Politicians serve a real purpose and when they are incapacitated, they should resign immediately.  It's a real injustice for the people they represent.

    They will be taken care of financially and medically.


    I said nothing (none / 0) (#75)
    by CoralGables on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 03:33:30 PM EST
    about stepping down. And I find quite a bit of injustice in your comment.

    Not as Much as the Injustice the People... (none / 0) (#90)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 04:20:27 PM EST
    ...who are represented by Jackson, they aren't being represented with his absence.

    They aren't missing much since (none / 0) (#92)
    by nycstray on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 04:29:29 PM EST
    this may end up being the most unproductive congress since the late 40's :)

    Well, with all due respect, ... (none / 0) (#105)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 06:45:51 PM EST
    ... Congresswoman Giffords didn't exactly possess the physical capacity to tender her resignation in the immediate aftermath of being shot in the head. I think she and her office handled it well.

    And it really was not clear for quite a while (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:12:47 PM EST
    how quickly and how much she would recover.

    If it's OK with the constituents to wait it out, as it was with Giffords and I assume Jackson, I think the rest of us should STFU about it.  It's up to them.


    Because he's (none / 0) (#124)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:13:27 PM EST
    an elected official?

    Can somebody tell me... (none / 0) (#34)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:45:06 AM EST
    what is up with self-righteous arsehole bakers lately?  First no cakes for gay weddings, now no pies for food stamp recipients.

    When did the sweets business get so sour?  

    Ya know, if I lived there (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by nycstray on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 12:04:49 PM EST
    I would be on a pie baking spree and be setting up a booth right next to her.

    If it's leechery she is worried about... (none / 0) (#48)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 12:51:42 PM EST
    I hope she doesn't accept plastic, cuz that is coming right out of her pocket, unlike food stamps.

    These folks (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Peter G on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 02:55:53 PM EST
    at the PieLab in Greensboro, Alabama, have more of the right idea. (One of our daughters was an AmeriCorps volunteer there a couple of years ago.) Pie = community.

    You Know kdog... (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 03:04:14 PM EST
    ...people think the poorest of the poor should only get enough to keep from dying and even then, some think that's too much.  From booze to cell phones to apparently sweets, all deemed luxury goods.  From what I understand they are fairly restrictive, I actually surprised she was taking them or even allowed to.  I don't think she's taking any sort of stand, pretty sure she doing what the law requires.

    But this does pretty much sum up the rights view of the poor, "They don't even deserve a slice of the American pie".  And the pie makers agrees.

    I wouldn't worry about it too much, like the cake maker, their customer base is not republicans, it's liberals, and her stand is noble in certain circles, people who use farmers markets aren't likely to agree.

    I think this is all emulating from Chik-fil-A.  Got all the religious bafoons thinking more deeply.


    I can actually respect... (none / 0) (#71)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 03:10:29 PM EST
    taking a principled stand that costs you money, it's these so called "principles" I have a problem with...but it's a quasi-free country.

    The food stamp restrictions are kinda all over the place, but I'm pretty sure Uncle Sam has no problem with pies.


    But isn't that ... (none / 0) (#106)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 06:48:21 PM EST
    ... an oxymoron -- "religious bafoons thinking more deeply"?

    No pies for you! (none / 0) (#73)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 03:27:17 PM EST
    Check this out, true story...

    Last week I was in a 7-11, and noticed three young kids running around and buying sodas and candy and other stuff, the oldest was maybe 8 y/o. It was kind of surprising to me that such young kids were alone in the store w/o adult supervision.

    After a while one of the kids went to the counter and yelled to her sister who was in the back of the store to "bring the card." I was next in line and saw that "the card" was an EBT card.

    I made my purchase and when I left the store found that the kids' vehicle was parked next to mine.

    The three kids were getting into a beautiful  late-model king-cab pickup truck with a nice set of Ping golf clubs, several new-looking kid's bicycles in the back along with some other nice/new-looking kid's play stuff, and in the front seats were a man and woman who seemed to be the kids' parents.

    Now, there certainly could be a good reason for all of this, perhaps the male owned the truck and he was the mother's brother, such that the mom was qualified for EBT although her brother was not and he was just taking them out for a day at the park, or something like that, but still, such things make you wonder sometimes...


    And Ronald Reagan (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by Zorba on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 03:31:04 PM EST
    salutes you from the grave, sarcastic unnamed one.

    Aw, now that would be sweet, (none / 0) (#76)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 03:33:49 PM EST
    as I saluted his casket in person...

    And I'm so thrilled (none / 0) (#77)
    by Zorba on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 03:36:10 PM EST
    for you.  ;-)

    Thanks! You're sweet too! (none / 0) (#78)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 03:39:07 PM EST
    Didn't think (5.00 / 3) (#109)
    by NYShooter on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 07:41:47 PM EST
    "sodas and candy and other stuff.."

    were eligible purchases on EBT.

    But, you bring out a good point. The "late model" truck was probably also purchased on the EBT Card.


    Ca FS rules (none / 0) (#112)
    by nycstray on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 08:16:12 PM EST
    I guess as long as (none / 0) (#114)
    by Zorba on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 08:35:57 PM EST
    the pies aren't "hot".     ;-)

    "sodas and candy and other stuff.." (none / 0) (#132)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 01:34:28 AM EST
    are very much eligible EBT purchases here in CA. The "late model" truck was a Ford and looked to be a 2009 or 2010, it had the beefy grill surrounds, but, no, definitely not EGT eligible. I know you don't want what I saw to be true, but...

    So what is your point (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by sj on Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 12:33:42 PM EST
    If one finds oneself needing assistance when none was needed before, one must first divest him/herself of any belongings having any value whatsoever?  We should only help you after you have made sure that you don't even have a car worth living in?

    Seriously? (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by NYShooter on Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 06:26:16 PM EST
    It's just that your post is analogous to:

    "The sun rose yesterday morning, then a girl got raped.".......as worthless a comment as pointing out some people make questionable decisions.


    I've run into that (none / 0) (#143)
    by Rupe on Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 10:48:42 AM EST
    but typically its a result of off the books income, so they can still technically qualify for food stamps and housing assistance, etc.  I've even had people offer to sell me their food stamps at half price for cash but neither situation is obviously in the majority.

    No one can deny.... (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 03:49:50 PM EST
    scammers abound from all walks of life...from food stamps & unemployment, to doctors running Medicare billing scams, health insurance companies denying legit claims, big-time government subsidy shenanigans and Wall St. bid rigging and insider trading, etc., etc.  

    That being said, to refuse to accept food stamps outright because you think pie shouldn't be covered is just a self-righteous d*ck move...I'm sure you agree.  What's next, EBT covers bread and water only?  

    I'm amazed how it pisses people off so, I sh*t you not not a week goes by without a letter to the editor in the local paper with somebody b*tchin' about what the person on line in front of them bought with food stamps.  With all the dollars getting scammed every damn day you're worried about 200 dollars a month in food stamps?  I guess it's out of sight out of mind for the big scams.


    Yet... (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 09:00:01 AM EST
    ...they stick their retirements into a system they know is gamed.  What always ticks me off is when rich people figure out how to pick your pockets, it's innovation, hard work, and all that jazz.  When the a poor person does it, people want them all the poor to suffer, even the kids, for the greed of a few.

    'Cadillac driving welfare mommas' will always enrage certain folks far more than the Wall Street that just took half their retirement.  Or maybe I should say, 'Late Model King-Cab Truck Kings', whom no one has any idea if they had anything to do with welfare or fraud.

    But poor people, usually minorities, with shiny stuff is always suspect.  "How dare they own stuff the rest of us own..." seems to be the thought.


    Yep yep... (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 09:14:42 AM EST
    if they ain't gaming the safety net, they're selling dope...or both.

    People Gotta Eat... (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 11:51:36 AM EST
    When one people in twelve cannot find a job, what do they think is going to happen, they will magically produce food, clothing, and shelter ?  

    The republicans here can't spout off enough about the high unemployment rate, but then when it comes to the poor they act like that statistic is no longer valid, that they are all lazy, and if they wanted to work they could.  Which one is it, it can't be both ?

    I don't know what the poor's unemployment rate is, but I know it's higher then most, especially minorities.  But people have to eat, they have to feed their children and the more you take away, is only more they will have to take.  It's very simple, no one is going starve themselves to death, or their children so Paul Ryan can sleep better knowing his six figure salary pays even less taxes.  They will figure out how to put some food on the table.


    I hear ya... (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 11:58:16 AM EST
    what the Paul Ryan's fail to realize is all the precious perks and protections they've carved out for themselves, using the law and the power of the state they claim to despise yet clamor to be a part of, is when societal order breaksdown the hungry masses will be busting the lock on their cupboards.  Not enough cops or guns in the world to save 'em.

    "Dem belly full but we hungry,
    hungry mob is an angry mob."

    The safety net they want to destroy does as much or more to protect them as the police, private security, their guns.


    Are we not entertained?....n/t (none / 0) (#96)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 05:28:52 PM EST
    Maybe this guy's baker (none / 0) (#87)
    by KeysDan on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 04:10:21 PM EST
    Heh, followed your link and saw (none / 0) (#94)
    by nycstray on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 04:34:46 PM EST

    Devo Founder Teams Up With Dogs Against Romney to Release Single For Seamus the Dog

    And that wasn't the only story pertaining to Seamus the dog . . .


    A Pennsylvania commonwealth court judge (none / 0) (#47)
    by Makarov on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 12:51:40 PM EST
    denied a request for a preliminary injunction against the state's voter ID law, sought by the ACLU of Pennsylvania, other groups, and various individuals who allege they will be disenfranchised.

    The ACLU plans to appeal to PA's Supreme Court. It's thought as many as 10% of registered voters could lack an acceptable form of photo ID. That number may or may not include people whose photo ID have a complete middle name and voter registration has only a middle initial.

    A meeting of county voting officials from all over the state is scheduled for a few weeks to clear up questions on exactly how the law will be enforced.

    The Commonwealth Court, for this case (5.00 / 3) (#65)
    by Peter G on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 02:43:31 PM EST
    acted as a trial court -- this judge heard live witness evidence.  He found that the number affected is "more than 1%" (the number pulled out of her ***hole by the PA Secretary of State), but not nearly as much as 9% (the number suggested by the ACLU's statistician).  Even if it's "only" 3% of Pennsylvania's 8.2 million registered voters who presently lack one of the accepted forms of ID and thus are potentially disenfranchised by this law, though, the number is still near 250,000 people.  No way can the state issue that many new IDs to those folks in the next three months, as the Governor blithely told the press they could do.

    Here is (none / 0) (#50)
    by Makarov on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 12:52:44 PM EST
    Sixth Circuit (none / 0) (#53)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 01:07:32 PM EST
    Arrrrrggghhh! (none / 0) (#129)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:26:48 PM EST
    This is So Ridiculous... (none / 0) (#79)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 03:44:14 PM EST
    ...woman can't feed needy children because, drum roll... she lives in a residential area and that's not allowed in the township.  Never mind she get the meals from the Archdiocese of Philadelphia or that she's filed all the legal paperwork.

    The good news, she don't care and will keep feeding the kids.

    Hero to Anyone Who Had Their S Stolen... (none / 0) (#81)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 03:55:44 PM EST
    ...tracks down theif after finding his $2500 bike on Craigslist, detains the man, and gets him arrested.  LINK

    That's exactly where I went (none / 0) (#93)
    by nycstray on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 04:31:33 PM EST
    after I was robbed :) Wasn't so lucky, and didn't spend too long trying to find my stuff. Gave up and decided to get on with my life :/

    Congratulations to Felix Hernandez ... (none / 0) (#107)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 07:08:41 PM EST
    ... of the Seattle Mariners, who today threw only the 23rd perfect game in major league history, a 1-0 win over the Tampa Bay Rays at Safeco Field.

    And what's even more amazing, this is the third perfect game that was thrown in the major leagues this season -- and the second one thrown at Safeco Field. The Chicago White Sox's Philip Humber tossed one against the M's on April 21.

    And when you consider the combined no-hitter that six M's pitchers threw against the Los Angeles Dodgers on June 8, that means that of the three of the six no-hitters in the major leagues thus far this season have occurred at Safeco Field.

    Just wanted to say (none / 0) (#111)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 08:10:23 PM EST
    Thanks to Jesse and BTD for the radio efforts.  I don't usually hear all of David Waldman, I hear the last half of his show.  Things are getting really ugly out there though, and for a variety of reasons getting to listen to the radio program daily has a soothing affect for me.  I know it sounds strange, but I don't feel so alone when people get flat out vile about my political beliefs and what I argue for right now.