Born on the Fourth of July

The Declaration of Independence:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world. [...]

Enjoy the day.

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    The Brits are coming (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 10:39:21 AM EST
    The Worldwide Leader in Sports, ESPN, has backed down to the All England Club today, in what can only be described as an abomination of all that is good for this still fledgling nation known as the United States.

    Where is our current day Paul Revere screaming from his horse, or at least a blog, that one of the greatest traditions of American Independence Day has been unceremoniously bumped to tape delay so as to show tennis.

    Yes, I'm talking about the Nathan's Famous July 4 International Hot Dog-Eating Contest. The women's contest, with the winner taking the cringe inducing "pink" mustard belt, is set to begin in a few minutes where defending champ Sonya Thomas will attempt to retain her most cherished pink accessory. And soon after, American Hero Joey Chestnut will take the stage for his own gastrointestinal fast food fetish while attempting to top his world record mark of 68 dogs and buns in the allotted ten minutes.

    And what do we have on ESPN right now?...Tennis from Wimbledon? Who won the war anyway? And so it begins. The British are coming. This was a wiener of a decision by ESPN. We'll have to wait until 3:00 ET on ESPN today to get our fill of franks.

    And I am p!ssed that Wimbledon is (none / 0) (#36)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 04:56:30 PM EST
    on ESPN this year instead of, like in so very many years past, on a broadcast network (CBS? NBC?).

    It seems downright unAmerican that those of us who do not have cable are denied the right to view this traditional Fourth of July sporting event.


    Happy God Particle day! (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by observed on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 11:21:53 AM EST
    Not that I know anything about the physics, but this is probably a really monumental discovery.

    Best comment (none / 0) (#6)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 12:07:36 PM EST
    For me, it's comparable to the moon landing (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by observed on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 12:39:23 PM EST
    ---which, interestingly, took place when the theory of the Higgs boson was being developed.

    There would be no galaxies without (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 03:35:42 PM EST
    the God particle, and there would be no Declaration of Independence :)  I have 1,000 things to do today so my investigation of the God particle must wait until tomorrow.  And without the God particle there would be no tomorrow or way to measure that :)

    Except... (none / 0) (#67)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 08:54:15 AM EST
    ...the only one calling it the 'god particle' is the media.  Peter Higgs, who coined the term, has since said many, many times he wished he's d never used that term.

    Scientists absolutely hate that connotation, it's the Higgs boson.  

    Please stop taking the media bate.

    I believe the Higgs boson is the ~25% of the matter in the universe known as dark matter, it can't be seen and until now, it couldn't be detected beyond theory.

    It plays a critical roll in understanding how the big bang physically happened.  They basically recreated that ex/implosion in the CERN Super-collider on a sub atomic level.


    Except since we're dealing (none / 0) (#72)
    by brodie on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 10:08:00 AM EST
    with a difficult area of science for most people, using the term "God particle" would appear a better hook for grabbing their attention for a story on subatomic matter.  If the media just said the "Higgs-Boson" particle, viewers' eyes would glaze over and they would reach for their remotes.

    I'm more interested in the public getting informed about scientific advances.  I care far less that science purists object to the way the information is conveyed.


    Well I wrote the above (none / 0) (#82)
    by brodie on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 11:38:55 AM EST
    like there was some guy named Boson who co-discovered with Higgs.  But no -- there is no guy named Boson and that's the name of a subatomic particle.  Apparently named for an actual physicist guy named Bose.

    And no, I have no idea whether he has a connection to Bose Electronics that makes the quality small sound systems.


    Educate via Deception ? (none / 0) (#87)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 12:29:15 PM EST
    Your suggestion is that we should use religiously provocative language to describe scientific break throughs so people will learn about it.  Funny.

    OK, surrrrrre... tossing god into the mix will get people interested in science.  It's typical false conflict and provocative language the media is built on.  

    Either you are interested in science or you're not, using incorrect nomenclature isn't going to educate anyone, if that's what you are suggesting.


    Some of the greatest scientists (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by jbindc on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 03:30:53 PM EST
    in history believed in God, of one sort or another.  Having a scientific mind and believing in a higher being are not necessarily incompatible thoughts.

    Copernicus, Galileo, Bacon, Kepler, Descartes, Pascal, Mendel, Planck, etc.  all believed in some form of a higher being. They had some pretty big brains.  

    Newton once said, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being."

    Einstein famously said, "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

    The problem is, a small, but vocal minority of those calling themselves "Christians"  have bastardized ther term and have acted as anything but, thereby turning off people who do not share their views (both religious and non-religious).


    Not Sure What That has to do... (none / 0) (#105)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 04:17:06 PM EST
    ...with my comment.  I was dissing the media and if I were to speculate, chances are most scientists, at least 75% believe in god.  Or whatever the percentage is of people who believe in god.

    The media doesn't give a F about god, they are just trying to rile up a fight between scientists and christian anti-science wing.

    I'm pretty sure most of those folks believe in marriage as well, so two things I think are complete garbage, but I don't hold it against them.

    That is a joke in case it didn't over as one.


    How about, instead (none / 0) (#90)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 12:41:16 PM EST
    of attempting to give it an aura of grandiose holiness, they go with something sexy or poetic..

    The word God degenerated all long time ago in this country into a euphemism for a big, swinging, authoritarian, ceo-dick in the sky..
    Pure ego projection. They should outlaw the word..

    I'm not big on scientists playing god either..I am become death, the shatterer of worlds..


    No Scientist... (none / 0) (#99)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 01:27:33 PM EST
    ...dropped Little Boy or Fat Boy.  They are no more to blame than Nobel is for drone attacks.

    "Scientists don't kill people, Presidents do." -ScottW


    Obviously but for the (none / 0) (#102)
    by brodie on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 03:22:54 PM EST
    scientists there would have been no decision for the president to make.  

    How about Nobel is (none / 0) (#109)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 06, 2012 at 02:58:46 PM EST
    for bombs and missles..?

    As Cool Hand Luke said, Callin' your job don't make it right, Captain..


    Google 'Godd@mn Particle" n/t (none / 0) (#104)
    by nycstray on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 03:32:41 PM EST
    No my suggestion is that (none / 0) (#101)
    by brodie on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 03:16:25 PM EST
    sometimes our use of God is merely a benign metaphorical way of describing something Big of a cosmic nature and not a sneaky way of introducing religion into the discussion .  And it bothers this non-believer very little perhaps owing in part to the fact that it was the scientist himself who first put the phrase out there.

    Further, it doesn't seem to bother physicist Michio Kaku who also talks about "the mind of God".  


    God [particle] bless you! (none / 0) (#76)
    by observed on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 10:56:09 AM EST
    And another hot day it is...but unlike (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Anne on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 12:16:06 PM EST
    some of my fellow Marylanders, still suffering the effects of Friday night's storm, we have electricity and therefore, air conditioning...

    But speaking of Independence Day, this would be a great time to encourage each other and those we know to think independently, to break the shackles of network "news" and inside-the-beltway pundit pontifications.  Read, research, refuse to join the herd out of loyalty or guilt or fear. Find ways to not be so beholden to the corporate behemoth: grow your own food, join or start a community garden, buy local whenever possible.

    It's surprising how much freer - and independent! - one feels for doing these kinds of things.

    And, since it wouldn't be the 4th of July without fresh blueberries, and now that there's some shade out where our blueberry bushes are, off I go to pick - happy 4th, everyone!

    Blueberries -- one of my (none / 0) (#10)
    by brodie on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 12:36:48 PM EST
    favorite fruits and very healthful to boot.

    And your post reminds me of something I came across the other day (the actual source I'm reluctant to disclose but not a wacky survivalist screed) encouraging people to become more adept in various manual labor arts, both because its important generally to be self sufficient and because (the instruction seemed to imply) we are all heading into a time where such skills will be needed for basic survival.

    I definitely need to improve some of my skills in the handyman area -- been too long cooped up in books and the Internet world of politics.


    Last night's Freedom Fest at Fort Rucker (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 12:35:53 PM EST
    was pretty good.  Whoever does the fireworks and packed up and ran off to the next post for tonight....gotta say, nobody does fireworks like the United States Military-Industrial Complex....nobody.  And the Lt. Dan Band played all night and Gary Sinise picked up the check for much of it after they turned out the lights.

    OT: book recommend from DK's (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 12:38:20 PM EST
    "What are you reading?":

    I highly recommend The Book Thief, btw. It's classified as a young adult book but I'm not sure why. I wanted to read it because I had read something about it being narrated by Death and I was curious about how that would be done.

    It was done remarkably well. I still get choked up over the last line of the book.

    Done....thanks oculus (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 12:40:13 PM EST
    I couldn't believe that my husband and I had the sniffles at the end of The Hunger Games but damned if we didn't.  He had to take over reading for me, and he almost didn't make it.  Thief sounds GREAT!

    Caution: I think the movie (none / 0) (#18)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 02:09:51 PM EST
    "Adaptation" was based on this book, which I haven't read.  I enjoyed the movie.  

    I think ADAPTATION... (none / 0) (#31)
    by Dadler on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 03:58:31 PM EST
    ...was based on THE ORCHID THIEF.

    You are correct, Dadler. (none / 0) (#45)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 05:56:17 PM EST
    Charlie's Kaufman's screenplay Adaptation was based on Susan Orlean's book The Orchid Thief, which was itself an expansion of an article Orlean wrote for The New Yorker.

    Meryl Streep's performance in the movie is one of her very best. And Chris Cooper was pretty darn good, too.


    Here's the movie I was thinking of: (none / 0) (#47)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 06:17:13 PM EST
    Stranger than Fiction, which also was not based on "The Book Thief," which is not yet a movie!

    That is the only Will Ferrell movie I (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 06:23:51 PM EST
    like. It helps that Emma Thompson is in the movie.

    Happy 4th of July, everyone! (5.00 / 9) (#14)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 12:49:54 PM EST
    I'm on day two of a liquid diet before surgery tomorrow.


    Gleason score and PSA have been climbing since the insurance fiasco last fall. Time to find out  how far it has spread... it hasn't made it to the bones yet, but too much of it is undifferentiated for it to be completely contained.

    Enjoy the day, and eat some grilled food for me! I get to cook for everyone, then have an 'ensure,' sigh.

    Also, someone please crack a natty lite in my honor. or 6.

    We will be thinking of you and hoping (5.00 / 5) (#16)
    by Anne on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 01:45:19 PM EST
    things go well with your surgery - not a beer drinker myself, but will happily raise an alcoholic substitute in your honor, hoping it isn't too long before you're back on your feet and your beer - and food - of choice are back on the menu...

    Hang in there, jeff - we're all pulling for you!


    Thanks, Anne. (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 01:56:04 PM EST
    My mind is at ease about this.  And being able to micturate again, even if I wear a Depends, will be a blessing! No more months-long UT infections, I hope, no more catheters (after a couple of weeks), a lot more stuff I will be happy to do without, like the feeling of a nail driven into certain parts of my anatomy.

    Keep us posted please. Positive thoughts (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 02:10:30 PM EST
    coming your way.  

    All my good thoughts are headed your way, my (5.00 / 4) (#33)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 04:34:01 PM EST
    friend. And they will continue in that direction for the foreseeable future.

    I have, for now, shunted aside my anger at how you got f*cked over by the insurance company in favor of more positive energy. I don't pray, buddhists don't, but I do work at living mindfully. So, I am, and will remain, mindful of you as you go through the surgery and recovery.

    I am hoping for the very best outcome. Please know that I, and the pirate crew, stand ready to help in any way we can should you need it.

    Love you, Jeff.


    Sending positive thoughts your way. (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by Angel on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 02:17:46 PM EST
    I'll be thinking of you often.

    Best of luck, Jeff (5.00 / 6) (#21)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 02:28:54 PM EST
    May whatever positive forces there are in the universe, join with our thoughts and prayers, to insure a great outcome for you.  Namaste, my brother.

    Be well, my friend (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by Dadler on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 03:56:14 PM EST
    Hope you catch some aces. Peace.

    Best wishes from the islands. (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 05:20:50 PM EST
    I look forward to hearing good things from you.

    And seriously, don't sweat the small stuff. I mean, I had to drink Ensure when I was on chemo for Hodgkin's Disease, and I found that it wasn't not so bad -- and between you and me, it's even better when you blend it with ice and sneak in a shot of spiced rum. I told my hematologist that, and she just laughed and gave me a thumb's up.

    Keep the faith. Aloha.


    Hang tough, Jeff (5.00 / 5) (#52)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 06:43:14 PM EST
    Praying for you.

    You'll make it!


    Thinking of (5.00 / 4) (#55)
    by lentinel on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 06:49:40 PM EST
    you Jeff.

    Wishing you the very best.


    I love ya... (5.00 / 3) (#66)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 08:19:29 AM EST
    but not enough to drink natty lite when there is Don Julio in the house.  

    Good luck today Jeff...tell us how everything went once you're up to it.  We love ya kid.


    Good luck to you, Jeff (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by sj on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 12:45:15 PM EST
    You may even be in surgery as I type.  I am sending your way every good thought I can conjure.  Blessings.

    Fourth of July dinner (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 02:39:37 PM EST
    What are you all having for the 4th?  I am marinating some nice tuna steaks in a teriyaki-type sauce, then I will coat the steaks with black sesame seeds, and Mr. Zorba will grill them over a hot fire (we use hard wood, from our farm), very,very briefly (we like them pretty raw on the inside).   Then I have new potatoes from the garden, which I will cook with green beans, both of them just gotten from the garden, and served with just olive oil, a bit of butter, and a squirt of lemon juice.  Also some zucchini from the garden, cooked in the oven (after a brief browning in olive oil) with garlic, onions, and tomatoes from the garden.  And more olive oil.  (I don't think Greeks can cook anything without olive oil.  Except possibly desserts.  And even that is not a given.)

    I am baking brownies to take to a (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 03:03:12 PM EST
    BYO Everything bbq neighbors are staging in the front yard.  

    Along the lines of the fireworks foibles from yesterday:  beware of bristle brushes!


    Fourth of July dinner (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 02:39:38 PM EST
    What are you all having for the 4th?  I am marinating some nice tuna steaks in a teriyaki-type sauce, then I will coat the steaks with black sesame seeds, and Mr. Zorba will grill them over a hot fire (we use hard wood, from our farm), very,very briefly (we like them pretty raw on the inside).   Then I have new potatoes from the garden, which I will cook with green beans, both of them just gotten from the garden, and served with just olive oil, a bit of butter, and a squirt of lemon juice.  Also some zucchini from the garden, cooked in the oven (after a brief browning in olive oil) with garlic, onions, and tomatoes from the garden.  And more olive oil.  (I don't think Greeks can cook anything without olive oil.  Except possibly desserts.  And even that is not a given.)

    Definitely garden produce on the menu... (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by Anne on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 02:58:45 PM EST
    we've grown to love medium-thick planks of zucchini/yellow squash brushed with garlic-infused olive oil and grilled, then sprinkled with a little fleur de sel and freshly grated Parm.  Mmmmmm...

    We also love the grilled zucchini then cut up and tossed with grape tomatoes and some grilled onion...

    Salad with garden lettuce, fresh-picked cucumber, peppers, tomato and some basil.

    I think steak is on the menu tonight, too, just rubbed with a little olive oil, salt and pepper and grilled to medium-rare.

    And whaddya know...I seem to be making myself hungry...imagine that!


    Yes, you're making me (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 03:37:09 PM EST
    hungry, too!  We're having a garden salad along with the other stuff.
    Grilled zukes are great.  (Although I probably like grilled eggplant even more.)
    And we can't wait until our sweet peppers get bigger and turn red.  We love them grilled, then peeled and served with a bit of olive oil and some freshly grated Romano or Parmesan cheese.  And/or a drizzle of good balsamic vinegar.

    Geez, Zorba, both you and Anne are causing (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 04:52:05 PM EST
    my salivary glands to work overtime. Apparently, all the best TL food is located in Maryland right now.

    As summer does not really start here in the Pacific Northwest until tomorrow (July 5), we don't have all the bounteous summer veggies you will be feasting on today. This coming week will be our first on with no rain and temps in the 80s.

    We do have the first raspberries and blueberries of the summer, though. So, in honor of this auspicious day, I will be eating red raspberries, blue blueberries and white yogurt. USA! USA!

    And, in a nod to internationalism, I will be sipping a nice vinho verde from Portugal.


    It is true that (none / 0) (#38)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 05:21:00 PM EST
    our gardens seem to be going nuts (but in a very good way) right now, casey.  But don't disparage the Pacific Northwest.  The Oregon Coast is one of my very favorite places.   ;-)

    What's really funny to me is that the (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Anne on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 05:31:22 PM EST
    produce is so plentiful that meat has become kind of an afterthought, as in, "oh, yeah - I guess we need some kind of protein with all these vegetables..."

    But with some good pasta in which to mix in all this glorious bounty, "Meatless Monday" has had more company of late from a few of the other days of the week!

    And some of the money I'm saving on produce I'm using to buy some really good olive oil, lol.


    I would never disparage the Pac NW. (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 05:52:23 PM EST
    I love this part of the country. And the Oregon coast is a treasure. I was just pointing out that summer gets started a little later here than it does where you are.

    I'm not worried. Come August we will be bursting with garden goodies. And, unless we have an unusually bitter winter, I will be able to harvest greens almost all the way until spring.


    We're keeping it simple this year, so ... (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 06:02:05 PM EST
    ... I'm grilling boneless chicken breasts that are lightly coated in olive oil and freshly cracked black pepper. It'll be served with fresh sweet Waimanalo corn on the cob, and baked potatoes with sour cream and chives. The salad consists of fresh Waimanalo greens, home grown cherry tomatoes with papaya seed vinaigrette.

    (Waimanalo is a Native Hawaiian community just on the other side of the mountains from us, where a lot of local truck farms are located, growing the best vegetables on the island. And like its neighboring community of Kailua, it's also home to one of the most beautiful white sand beaches in the world, but don't tell anyone else that ...)

    For dessert, younger daughter made a delightful-looking guava chiffon cake from scratch; she's actually a very good baker. She's not very keen on cooking actual meals, but she does enjoy making desserts and confections. Her oatmeal raisin cookies (from my late grandmother's recipe) are to die for.


    Sorry for the double post (none / 0) (#24)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 02:41:12 PM EST
    Doggone this iPad.  I don't know how this happened, but I never have this happen when using the desktop computer.

    Try again. (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by lentinel on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 06:45:19 PM EST
    That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it,

    Sounds good to me.

    Let's start over.

    Great. (none / 0) (#58)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 08:06:15 PM EST
    You lead the charge.

    I'll make some popcorn.


    I (none / 0) (#59)
    by lentinel on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 08:56:03 PM EST
    got my three cornered hat at the ready.

    Seriously (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by lentinel on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 09:28:17 PM EST
    though, Don.

    Don't you think we can do better than this?

    As Anne put it the other day, we have a choice between not having to place to live (Romney) or living in a car (Obama).

    Both parties are financed by the same monied interests.

    The candidates are dismal.
    Neither party has the least concern for civil liberties.

    I know that you will turn out to vote for Obama because you consider the alternative to be worse. You may be right. I think that voting in this election validates the corrupt manner in which we have been given a choice between two lemons.

    I anticipate a dismal turnout for 2012.

    I don't think I am the one to lead any charge of the light brigade,
    But I think it is time to listen to the advice of some of the founders of this republic and smell the coffee.

    Our fragile democracy has been completely corrupted by heartless economic interests. On a day like today, I think about the ideals of the founders and what they would say about today's incarnation of their ideals.

    I think that's why we would rather discuss what we are going to barbecue, because we have been fried, baked and broiled.
    I love America and can't stand the government. Go figure.


    Read a little further lentinel... (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 08:17:07 AM EST
    and we have our answer why there has been no 2nd American Revolution.

    Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

    The evils wrought by this government are still sufferable, and some suffering is preferred by many to the unknown outcome of a 2nd American Revolution.

    Now I wouldn't call our lack of action prudence... more likely apathy, fat & lazyness, and hopelessness.  


    It's Not the Govenrment... (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 09:33:10 AM EST
    ...it's the weakness of men/women.

    I have always said, that every so often the government should rest certain aspects, like terms, and parties, and most legislation.

    Not a revolution, just a house cleaning mandated by the constitution.  Because I always wonder... they make a zillion new pieces of legislation a year and each year we have more, at some point, now I would say, it gets so convoluted that is making a well designed government operate very inefficiently.

    Say every 50 years, short enough that most of us would get to see one, yet long enough that the players from the previous reset could have no hand in it.


    I like it... (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 09:38:38 AM EST
    I've long thought something like every other legislative term should be used exclusively to review, repeal and/or revise existing law....no new laws allowed.

    Convoluted ain't the word...it's a clusterf*ck.


    I agree. (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by lentinel on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 10:53:12 AM EST
    As long as the people running the show think we will take it and take it, they will keep dishing it out.

    And they do it incrementally - like the Chinese water torture.

    When finally our heads explode - there we go. Kaboom. Revolution.

    I have always felt that revolutions are organic. There may be a leader, but it is someone who appears after the feeling to revolt has begun to bubble. It is someone who can coordinate the feelings, emotions and power that the people are expressing.

    Then again, there's Watts. People burning the place down. People who feel that they have nothing to lose. At this point, most Americans are either comfortable enough or scared enough to feel that they do have something to lose by taking to the streets and shutting the whole thing down.

    But I think of Ben Franklin - that line about people who are willing to give up freedom for security deserve neither.
    Not only will we get neither freedom nor security, but Ben is saying that we don't even deserve either one if we are not willing to stand up to tyranny.

    100% - that guy.


    We also should acknowledge (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by brodie on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 11:26:49 AM EST
    the revolutionary efforts of Tom Paine who was the most responsible for nudging the elites towards declaring a complete break with the mother country.  Prior to his fine words being published in early 1776, nearly all the founding fathers were merely asking the King for a few more rights.  But for his influence, probably no D of I, and we'd probably still be a colony.

    And, yes, I strongly suspect that if current political and economic trends continue for too much longer, we are headed for a second American Revolution not too long from now.  Probably more grass roots driven than by the elites, ignited by some major occurrence, perhaps in a Romney first or second term, that finally gets people off their couches and into the streets.


    Yes. Tom Paine. (none / 0) (#95)
    by lentinel on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 01:05:08 PM EST
    And we ought to also tip the hat to Patrick Henry.

    Great people.


    As a woman (none / 0) (#63)
    by christinep on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 08:03:01 AM EST
    I'm thinking about how much progress we have made from when we started wiith the founding "fathers.". I'm guessing that Blacks & other Minorities might have similar thoughts.  Yes, things should always improve, progress.  IMO, we continue to grow...not as quickly as we could, but we do move forward over time...and, people with the drive for progress & peace, like yourself, ultimately only encourage that progress.  (Thank you!)

    Yes.. (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by lentinel on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 11:03:27 AM EST
    Every time I hear that potboiler phrase - the founding fathers - it makes me cringe.

    The other cliché that makes me mad is the one that we are "a nation of immigrants". Obama repeated that just yesterday.


    There were people on this land that we slaughtered and impoverished in order to make room for the people coming over from Europe.

    It is, in my opinion, a national shame that we still do not acknowledge the extent to which our country exists due to the practice of genocide.

    And today, the remnants of those once mighty nations deserved to be acknowledged as well as the people referred to as "immigrants".


    "A nation of immigrants" (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by christinep on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 11:33:41 AM EST
    There must be a way to honor both realities.  Maybe "we have long been a nation of immigrants..."

    You make a good point about the very beginnings of settlement. And, frankly, about the white savagery of Westward Ho...as in the Cherokee Trail of Tears, the slaughter of anything Apache, and (thinking about my own Colorado) the notorious Sand Creek Massacre.  

    But, there is also a reality about the Irish escaping their English overseers and potato blight of the mid-19th century, the east central Europeans (Italians, Slovenes, & others in the Austro-Hungarian empire) escaping the economic ravages of existence in otherwise beautiful lands, lands often decimated by wars in the late 19th & early 20th century, the Polish fleeing economic downturns & forced conscription as part of the Russian rule in the late 19th & early 20th century, Asian influx in the mid-20th century for multitude reasons including genocide in Cambodia, and--lest our memories fail--those who could (persecuted Jews and others falling under evil's boots) escaping the giant genocide that girded part of WWII.

    So, for me, I choke up in appreciation when I hear the term "nation of immigrants."  In so many encompassing ways, we are.  Even with that...we, like every nation on earth, have been undeniably guilty of causing suffering & acting with great wrongdoing in our history (the treatment of our Native Americans is an example in the forefront).  Like you, I hope we can remember both...and honor those that came before in so doing. Metakwe yasui.


    The (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by lentinel on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 01:15:06 PM EST
    other thing about the "nation of immigrants" line that is disturbing to me is that to me it implies the turn of the twentieth century - as if the "nation" dates from 1880 or 1890 - rather than from the mid-eighteenth century.

    I too can get emotional about my grandparents who found their way here from Russia around 1910 or a bit earlier. So I can identify with you getting choked up.

    But they had a difficult time.
    The US let them in, but it hardly felt as if they were welcomed with open arms into the nation of immigrants.

    So, some of the "nation of immigrants" line seems to me to be history being rewritten by the descendants of that wave of immigrants - many of whom have risen to positions of great wealth and power.


    Let us critique & make better (none / 0) (#107)
    by christinep on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 06:11:41 PM EST
    And, while so doing, we might also reflect on this land, this country...that we are still relatively young, that we do not have more than a few hundred plus years as a constitutional government...there is pain in aborning and more pain in the growing.  My personal & somewhat private thoughts are that there is good hope here as long as we do continue to assimilate--albeit grudgingly with the periodic waves--and learn with that assimilating growth.  Looking at other countries, we can see the harsh pattern of rejecting spurts of immigration...the difference may be, lentinel,  that we--to date anyway--manage to move beyond the initial pain & grow a bit.

    I (none / 0) (#108)
    by lentinel on Fri Jul 06, 2012 at 10:29:41 AM EST
    wouldn't begin to compare us with other countries regarding assimilation.

    We might be better than most, but it is an open question for me.

    When I was in France a few years ago, I saw a group of teenagers hanging out at a local Bistro. Black and white. They all spoke the same language - no "black accent". And I had no sense of one group being superior or even remotely different from the other one. They all just sounded like and behaved as a bunch of French teenagers hanging out.

    I haven't seen quite the same thing in the USA.
    There seems to be a relative self-consciousness between the races - and the religions for that matter.

    I think I might compare what I felt with what Malcolm X said he experienced when he went to Mecca. He saw Muslims, people of all colors - together - with no sense of a difference or rank between them based on color. The way he phrased it was that in Mecca, when someone said "white", they referred to a color. In the US, when someone said "white", they meant "boss".

    Obviously, the French have problems with integration - especially with their large African and Muslim populations - so I can't say that as a country they are farther ahead, but --- I can't say that they haven't as much or more capacity as we to grow.

    And then, there is the matter of our "foreign policy" - if it can even call it that.
    We have yet to face up to what we did to the Vietnamese.
    Or the Iraqis. Or the native Americans.

    And I don't think we can really grow, or move on, until we do.


    I think you're right. (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by sj on Fri Jul 06, 2012 at 04:42:28 PM EST
    We have yet to face up to what we did to the Vietnamese.
    Or the Iraqis. Or the native Americans.

    And I don't think we can really grow, or move on, until we do.

    After seeing every single treaty with the Native Americans broken by the US government, it makes me sad that the freed slaves put so much hope into the "40 acres and a mule" promise.  

    Our dealings with our own populations have always been the most dishonorable, it seems to me.  The USA is still a promise unfulfilled.  I expect more of us, darn it.  We can do better than this.

    But in order to do it we have to face up to what "we've" done.  Really face up to it.  Or we could do what we've always done and be satisfied with positive steps.  As if that made up for it somehow.


    I really (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by lentinel on Fri Jul 06, 2012 at 06:21:02 PM EST
    believe what you said about the necessity of facing up to what we have done.

    That is why I find it particularly contemptible that Obama and the present administration has taken off the table any action to be taken against Bush and Cheney for their actions. For their shredding of the Constitution. For the slaughter inflicted upon our young people. For the treatment of the wounded veterans. For the horrors inflicted upon the Iraqi people. I am probably over the top. I admit that - but literally every time I throw out some water, I think about the Iraqi people being forced to go without water after our "shock and awe" carpet bombing.

    I am so far out about the horrors of the Vietnam war and the war in Iraq that I liken it to a Hitler mentality. And Obama wants to "move on". He "honors" Bush for his "service". In other words, he is letting us know that whatever Bush did, he is not only immune  from prosecution, he is also immune from criticism.

    I can't see any positive steps. I just can't.
    That doesn't mean I don't love this country.
    What it means to me is that the people that are continuing to wound this country, to bankrupt it morally, are being given more and more license to continue doing it - and that hurts.


    You make some good points in this post, lentinel (none / 0) (#110)
    by christinep on Fri Jul 06, 2012 at 03:29:06 PM EST
    A challenge: Argue the other side.  That is, take a look at the probability that all countries have committed wrongs...and, you & I could have a spirited "yes but" discussion about the rights & the wrongs history has witnessed.  Now, the reason it can be quite important to role-reverse in a situation like this is because the instructive "exercise" usually reveals perspectives (like the half-empty or half-full glass)...and ,especially in an attitudinal area of assessing good & bad, we can get a glimpse of any possible common ground.

    In earlier comments, I've mentioned where our history shows some wrongful turns in the road.  What about you...what do you believe might be some examples of positive movement, steps, approaches.  (Note: I am assuming that there is more to your analysis than "it's all bleak, all bad, etc.  Or we'd all be better off living on Paris' Left Bank").  

    P.S.  As my writings reveal, my own perspective about the U.S. Is one of the glass half-full.  Lots of work to be done (always will be)....considering everything, tho, there is no place else that I would rather live.  It may sound like Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz, but I feel fortunate in calling this land "home.". Not feeling complacent...simply thankful for the progress over the years wile hopeful that we can continue to chip away at, undo, & right the obvious wrongs we both see.


    It is possible (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by lentinel on Fri Jul 06, 2012 at 05:14:05 PM EST
    that we'd all be better off living on the left bank... but that's not my point.

    But I will admit that I see little or no progress in the last 30 or 40 years. The election of Obama means nothing to me in the sense that I think that it strikes a blow for racial equality. The Ghettos go on as before. The gulf between rich and poor continues to widen unabated. The gulf between the powerful and the powerless continues to widen.

    The Iraq war means to me that we learned nothing from the horror of the war in Vietnam. Our numbness towards what people in our country did to the Native Americans is a staggering reality.

    That doesn't mean that the American people are not a beautiful people - people that you would want to be around. Why wouldn't you feel our country as "home"?

    But - it's the people that make the country worthwhile. But the government has continued its relentless path of repression. I don't like what has happened to our government. I don't like the way it has been captured and controlled by the greedy and the heartless - and the stupid.

    To me, the people that count are the artists. I think many feel that way. Example: I think more people were affected by the death of Michael Jackson than will ever be affected by the death of any politician. The last American politician that evoked that kind of emotion was Kennedy. Rightly or wrongly, people identified with him and felt that he was on our side. No more.

    So we continue to chip away at the wrongs we both see. You in your way, and me in mine.

    I'm not sure either of us will actually get anywhere.
    But I guess it's worth a try.


    Grilled porkchops (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 06:48:27 PM EST
    fried okra, baked squash, green beans and new potatoes... sliced tomatoes, onions, cukes, banana peppers and green bell peppers..

    All from my garden except the chops and potatoes...

    And served with the wine of the south... sweet tea with lemon..

    Sounds good, Jim (none / 0) (#57)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 07:54:38 PM EST
    But I do have to say, if they are not from your garden,  dug only a little earlier that same day, they are not "new potatoes.". Unless a near-by neighbor gave them to you from their garden a bit earlier today.  Other than that, carry on!

    Okay... new as in the past week?? (none / 0) (#61)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 11:27:22 PM EST
    Well, not really (none / 0) (#62)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 05:28:51 AM EST
    If they are freshly dug, from a plant that is still green, they will be sweeter and have sort of a creamier texture than "old" potatoes.  The longer they sit around, more of the sugar will turn into starch.  They won't be as sweet or creamy as new, new potatoes.  However, if you dug them yourself in the past week, they're still fresher than the ones in the store, which have been processed and shipped from who-knows-where.

    As an old potato farmer... (none / 0) (#64)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 08:17:05 AM EST
    Growing up we called all potatoes that had been freshly dug and kept for eating before being spread out in the root cellar "new potatoes."

    These were a few days old from a nearby farmer.

    They are red potatoes, and the ones kept for immediate eating are smaller, and these were boiled with the skin on and served whole with butter, sour cream and pepper on the side.

    Interesting how different parts of the country view/cook/do things.


    We've been (none / 0) (#75)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 10:53:49 AM EST
    growing and root cellaring potatoes for close to thirty years now.  I can tell the difference in taste between two potatoes, dug from the same hill, with one cooked within a few hours, and one that sits around for a few days.  Granted, they're still better than what you can buy at the store.
    We grow Pontiacs, Kennebecs, Yukon Gold, and Russets.  The Pontiacs, especially, are the best for the new, little potatoes, prepared simply, as you suggest.  Although the Kennebecs and Yukon Golds are excellent, too.  Kennebecs make particularly good French fries.  The Russets we mainly root cellar.  They keep well, and we like them as baking potatoes.  
    One of these years, I'd like to try planting one of the varieties of blue potatoes.  Have you ever grown them, Jim?

    I've grown the blue/purple ones (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by nycstray on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 12:10:40 PM EST
    along with reds. I first discovered them from my CSA farmer in NY.

    I love growing colorful food (I do purple and red carrots also :) )


    I Have Had Purple Ones... (none / 0) (#85)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 11:48:37 AM EST
    ...small, and a couple other... new breeds ?  Little ones, like the size of baby reds, but more egg shaped in a variety of colors.  They all are hard to cook, they go from hard to soft in an instant and they tasted OK, not worth the risk of overcooking IMO.  And since they are new, the size was from really small to pretty big, making it that much harder to cook consistently.

    But I was cutting them in half and boiling with skins, so maybe there is a better to cook them.

    Seemed gimmicky to me, more of a garnish.


    Never grown the blue (none / 0) (#114)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 06, 2012 at 09:33:16 PM EST
    If I remember we grew russets on the farm for the root cellar. We never sold them. But we did grow sweet potatoes (completely different) for the market and consumption.

    You never lived until you have chopped sweet potatoes in July where you have to move the vines and chop around them.


    damn (none / 0) (#83)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 11:40:20 AM EST
    They grew potatoes in Wisconsin maybe 50 miles from where I grew up, but I have never knowingly had a fresh one.  I love me some potatoes and I cook them just like you do, skins and all, with real butter and SC.  My mouth is watering I am going to have to see if I can dig up some of these new potatoes.

    Normally I just get a 5 lb bad of reds and cook the whole bunch with skins and slight mash them, leaving them really chunk.  Sometimes I put, like a seasoned salt, on them, something I picked up here, cajuns and there baby reds with cajun spices.  But I never get the spices right, so I stick with the better and SC most of the time.

    And you can't normally get the potatoes w/o the seasonal crawfish, which I don't eat.  Luckily, I have a friend that does a weekly boil at a bar, so he will just let me get a plate of potatoes.  But he won't give me the spices and CF season just ended.


    How Do You Tell.. (none / 0) (#84)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 11:42:56 AM EST
    ...how fresh they are, I love potatoes, but I take what they have at the grocery store.  Normally I go to HEB, but a couple times a month I stop in at Whole Foods to get fresh fruit.

    But the potatoes all look the same, but they are probably my favorite food.


    Oh, man (none / 0) (#89)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 12:37:06 PM EST
    The best way to tell how fresh they are is to grow your own.  The second best way is to buy from a near-by farm stand, especially one that grows its own produce locally.  If you establish a good relationship with them, they will tell you when the produce was picked.  We do this for corn.  We used to grow corn ourselves, but it got to be too much for us and took up too much room to produce enough corn for each meal.  But we have a farm stand, local people, who will tell us "This corn was picked this morning."  Judging from the taste of the corn that they tell us was picked fresh this morning from near-by fields, they do seem to be telling the truth.
    I don't buy that many potatoes from the store, since we root cellar a whole bunch of our potatoes for the winter.  But sometimes, towards the end of the winter, I am reduced to buying store potatoes because we have run out.  (We love potatoes, too!)  The only thing I can suggest is to look for very, very firm potatoes without blemishes.  If they are at all kind of soft, don't buy them.

    The Vendors... (none / 0) (#94)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 01:00:50 PM EST
    ...never have potatoes, here it's a lot of melons and berries.  Growing is not an option.  But good idea, I'll ask one of the Vendors.

    Off topic, I live fairly close to Imperial sugar and it's a pretty big deal here.  But this morning I was having some Chex Mix, and as I was reaching for the Imperial Sugar, and this got stuck in my head:

    C&H pure cain sugar, from Hawaii, grown in the sun...
    So for goodness sake use C&H pure cain sugar.

    Do they still make it, that jingle, I have not heard in at least a decade, probably two.  I have no idea where it came from, but it really put a smile on my face.

    The Raleigh News and Observer... (none / 0) (#2)
    by unitron on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 10:44:29 AM EST
    ...used to publish, on July 4th, on the editorial page, not the Declaration, but The Bill of Rights, which in a way I found even more fitting, even though chronologically incorrect.

    Besides, the actual declaring happened on the 2nd.

    From today's Writer's Almanac: (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 11:27:11 AM EST
    Today is Independence Day. On this day in 1776, the Second Continental Congress unanimously adopted the Declaration of Independence, and the United States officially broke from the rule of England. The document was approved and signed on July 2, and was formally adopted on July 4. John Adams always felt that the Second of July was America's true birthday, and he refused to appear at Fourth of July celebrations for the rest of his life in protest.

    And the Gods of Karma (3.67 / 3) (#5)
    by brodie on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 11:46:28 AM EST
    exacted revenge upon Adams by arranging for his demise on a July 4.  And for good measure they included Jefferson on the very same day a few hours earlier.  Looks to me like Someone was intent on insisting that July 4 be the date we mark.

    Not that I really believe that's how things work.  Odd though that it came to an end for Adams on that day, and a little more fitting that Jefferson, considered the author of our Declaration, finished his Earthly incarnation when he did.


    i find it interesting, perchance karmic, that (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 04:22:08 PM EST
    Adams and Jefferson not only both died on July 4th, but that they died on the exact same Fourth of July in 1826.

    I know the Constitution is Jemmy Madison's baby, but are there any more fitting representatives of the two opposing views of how the new nation should be formed and should function that John Adams and Thomas Jefferson? I think not.


    And it was (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 04:41:57 PM EST
    the 50th anniversary, as well.
    I agree with you about their differences.  They came to have a sharp, even bitter, division, but eventually started a correspondence again.  Adams' last words were "Jefferson still lives."  (Although Thomas Jefferson had died a few hours earlier.)
    It has some flaws, but HBO's 2008 mini-series John Adams is worth watching.

    I'm actually reading ... (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 05:25:18 PM EST
    ... David McCullough's excellent biography of John Adams right now. I never saw the HBO miniseries, and I'll wait until I finish the book before renting it from the neighborhood Blockbuster (yes, we still have one).

    It is excellent, (none / 0) (#43)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 05:38:50 PM EST
    but McCullough's book, and the HBO series as well, may have been almost too flattering to Adams.  I do not dispute that he was in so many ways a great man, but he had his fatal flaws.  As did they all.

    As do WE all (5.00 / 3) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 06:39:52 PM EST
    (I'm feeling humble today.)



    Just from reading (none / 0) (#56)
    by brodie on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 07:34:20 PM EST
    a few reviews when the book appeared, apparently McC seriously underplayed Adams' role in pushing the Alien-Sedition Acts, some of the most dangerously antidemocratic legislation Congress ever passed.  

    I took the mixed reviews to mean McC had set out to write only a positive bio of a man he obviously greatly admired and wasn't going to spoil things by dwelling too much on the negative.  Sort of what popular historian Steven Ambrose did a few years earlier with his overly worshipful bio of Truman.

    Someone once called that style the American Heritage School of Mythmaking -- Great Men Doing and Saying Great Things.  The kind of stuff that starts in the whitewashed school textbooks and ends up memorialized in marble in Washington DC monuments.

    Not my cup of tea thank you.


    Scratch the Ambrose reference (none / 0) (#73)
    by brodie on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 10:31:02 AM EST
    It was McCullough himself who also wrote the rather one sided highly favorable bio of Truman.  Easy to confuse the two since they are both largely of the American Heritage school of history writing that is more concerned with telling an heroic tale than in telling the more complete story with accurate facts.

    McCullough does have superior story telling skills and he sells books, I'll give him that.


    McCullogh (none / 0) (#78)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 11:03:25 AM EST
    is fun to read because he tells such a great story, but you're right, he does like his "heroism" and seems to be reluctant to point out the warts.  I've always thought that he should be a writer of history books for middle and high school students.  Their history books tend to emphasize the positive aspects of our history and de-emphasize the more negative stuff.  At least, that's the type of history we were taught.  Things may have changed now.  I hope so, because as they get older and more mature, the kids should learn the bad along with the good.  It's the way life is.

    Jefferson was its primary author, but ... (none / 0) (#40)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 05:29:15 PM EST
    ... it was John Adams who made the eloquent case for its ratification and adoption on the floor of the Continental Congress. Its passage was hardly a given when it was first drafted and introduced.

    Turner Classics (none / 0) (#48)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 06:20:53 PM EST
    is showing 1776 right now. Adams and Jefferson were good but Ben stole the show in this one.

    What on earth (none / 0) (#88)
    by sj on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 12:34:30 PM EST
    is troll worthy about this comment?

    Anti-malware software? (none / 0) (#8)
    by observed on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 12:23:06 PM EST
    I screwed up yesterday and tried a download which let something into my computer which my protection (Kaspersky) didn't catch.
    It's underlining text in random places with hyperlinks to ads.
    I wanted to use Adaware, which I've successfully used before, but apparently that is incompatible with Kaspersky.
    Is spybot search and destroy good?
    Can someone give me an exact url for a legitimate download?


    I recommend you (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 03:04:56 PM EST
    first run Microsoft Safety Scanner. Don't google it, you may get a bad version. Go to Microsoft.com, and get it from them here. The download link is good for 10 days (you can download it again.)

    Run it on your entire hard drive, it will take a few hours. If you still have a problem, I recommend MalwareBytes. The free version is here. I have the paid version, and use it along with Kaspersky Pure.

    Those two should fix everything. But you really need both anti-virus and malware protection.


    Try Webroot (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 06:41:09 PM EST
    Had for 8 or 9 years. Works well. Great support.

    Spybot S&D is good (none / 0) (#15)
    by unitron on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 01:33:50 PM EST
    Get it from here


    (after you install it you need to remember to run it periodically and keep it updated)

    I use it and the free version of Avast!


    I used to use the free version of AVG, but they abandoned Windows 98SE before I did.


    I'm partial to Trend Micro myself. (none / 0) (#42)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 05:34:57 PM EST
    I've had their software protecting my computers for six years now, and have never had a problem.

    make sure there's is (none / 0) (#68)
    by DFLer on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 09:06:20 AM EST
    only ONE AV program on your puter at a time.

    Also always do a "custom" install when installing a prg., as many prgs will want to install another av prg (like AVG) and/or annoying and interfering task bars like "Ask"


    First... (none / 0) (#71)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 09:47:47 AM EST
    ...restore to Windows to a week or so ago, that will eliminate it from you computer.  

    Start/Accessories/System Tools/System Restore

    Nothing is fail safe, but as soon as you notice something, do a restore, it's simple and will restore you computer to a moment in time before the infection.  It's the best way to keep your computer clean IMO.

    I keep two widgets on my desktop, CPU and internet usage, when they act abnormally, I do  reset, maybe once a month.  I have Norton 360 which works pretty well, but I download a lot of software written by amateurs and occasionally is malicious.  And am sure I have reset my computer when it's not been necessary, but when my CPU, 4 cores, huts nearly 100% or the internet usage nears 100% when I am not doing anything I assume something bad got in.

    And never every click a box that pops up, often the cancel button actually causes an install.  Firefox blocks ads or I close it and reopen restoring the tabs I was using except for the one that caused the pop-up.


    Just give in and... (none / 0) (#77)
    by fishcamp on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 11:01:57 AM EST
    get an Apple computer...none of this stuff ever happens...EVAH

    It Does... (none / 0) (#92)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 12:47:11 PM EST
    ...not as often, but there are viruses that hit Apple.  The reason they don't get hit is the reason most people hate Apple, they treat you like a kid in terms of what you can do and lock down nearly every really cool thing a PC is capable of.  

    My computer will run circles around anything Apple has out there.  And I can run any software but Apple, you can only run Apple.  There is a reason that virtually all office computers are not Apple, and it ain't cause they are awesome.

    It's personal preference, you like purple KoolAid, but making a claim that Apple is immune is false.  


    Although (none / 0) (#93)
    by nycstray on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 12:52:18 PM EST
    when sh!t hits the PCs at a business, the only ones getting work done are generally the creative group on their Apples :) BTW, I can run Adobe, MS, and many other software programs on my Apple that don't originate with Apple. Quite frankly,  Apple software is at the bottom of my usage list. . . .

    I think you may want to update your Apple knowledge . . .


    Maybe So... (none / 0) (#97)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 01:17:56 PM EST
    ...I learned on an Apple IIe, then macs in high school.  So I am not allergic.  I see what a couple friends can't do and it drives me nuts, even thumb drives, they can't share anything and are pretty much forced to use Apple file types.

    But more importantly, why buy Apple if the software is at the bottom of your list ?  It can't be the hardware, PC are far superior in term of bench marks.

    Reminds of one friend, buys a Mac book, installs Windows on it as uses that partition almost entirely.  What's the point ?  He could have done the same thing at about 1/3 the cost.


    I find Apple's ease of use superior to a PC (none / 0) (#100)
    by nycstray on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 01:39:10 PM EST
    and it's the standard for my field. I do think Apple has some interesting things going on with their newer developments and such, but I have no need ATM to explore too much of it. MS office is still the biz standard, as is Adobe in my field, so Mac Apps automatically drop to the bottom just in usage percentage/work demand.

    I would only install Windows on a Mac as an absolute last resort ;) I just bought a new 27" iMac and am loving it. Small footprint, EASY on the eyes, lots of screen real-estate for doing my creative work and it handles my needs as far as speed and capability/compatibility.

    I have no trouble sharing my files between Mac n' PC, and with thumb drives. Must just be the type of work being created, and/or how it's saved . . .


    I Use a Desktop (none / 0) (#106)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 04:23:43 PM EST
    Dual screens and I do have to admit, that new Retina screen has me very curious.  I have a 22" monitor (with a 17")and it's pretty bad ass, but has graphical limitations.

    Thank you for posting that (none / 0) (#98)
    by sj on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 01:23:09 PM EST
    It's right up there with the Gettysburg address in terms of speaking to my spirit and bringing a tear to my eye.  Seriously.

    With that as inspiration, how can anyone support the lesser of two evils?  Honestly I don't get it.  The two party system is habit.  But somehow people have become convinced it is the one and only way.

    Anyway, enough whining.  Just thank you.  For posting that.

    who (none / 0) (#115)
    by NYShooter on Fri Jul 06, 2012 at 10:55:32 PM EST
    are you responding to, sj?

    I see several up above it could be, including a yummy recipe.


    oh, I see (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by NYShooter on Fri Jul 06, 2012 at 10:57:14 PM EST
    BTD's "declaration....."

    got it:)