Thursday Morning Open Thread

I'll be on Daily Kos Radio with Jesse LaGreca at 11 Eastern. Listen here.

I'll be discussing gun issues, Mitt Romney and the Supreme Court's role on the issue. And of course we'll be discussing the tax issue and the passage in the Senate of tax cuts for person earning $250K or less.

Open Thread.

< Kim DotCom Sings Mr. President to Obama | State Identifies Some Witnesses in George Zimmerman Case >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Display: Sort:
    Speaking of guns.... (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:01:54 AM EST
    Cop forgets he's got a loaded glock under the front seat of his car, his 3 year old finds it and shoots him in the back.  He's now paralyzed.

    Naturally, he's suing Glock.  Now I got no love for Glock's product but that is one ridiculous lawsuit imo.  The manufacturer didn't leave a loaded weapon within easy reach of a toddler.

    The linked story also tells us (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Towanda on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:25:23 AM EST
    that "the child was not in a safety seat at the time."  So is the cop also going to sue child-seat manufacturers for not making a device that buckles in his kid for him?  Or is the cop going to issue himself a ticket for not following the child-seat law?

    Without knowing all the details (none / 0) (#3)
    by Slado on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:12:26 AM EST
    This seems like an especially stupid lawsuit since we're talking about a person that is trained to work with firearms.

    Now the 3year old isn't trained but no manufacturer can make a gun full proof and someone specifically trained in the handling and using of guns should know better.


    It's like leaving a can of gas... (none / 0) (#8)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:26:55 AM EST
    in a car with a toddler and an open flame...and suing Exxon when the car blows up.



    And now we know what the Pennsylvania (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:25:45 AM EST
    Voter ID law is all about: the 43% of Philadelphia voters who don't have voter-eligible ID.

    David Dayen:

    As the Pennsylvania voter ID law works its way through the courts, the potential impact comes more deeply into focus. Daniel Denvir writes about the whopping number of people in Philadelphia who do not have eligible ID at this point. This includes people with expired licenses:

    The number of Pennsylvanians who might not have the photo identification necessary to vote this November has more than doubled: at least 1,636,168 registered voters, or 20 percent of Pennsylvania voters, may not have valid PennDOT-issued ID, according to new data obtained by City Paper. In Philadelphia, an enormous 437,237 people, or 43 percent of city voters, may not possess the valid PennDOT ID necessary to vote under the state's controversial new law.

    "Those are the numbers we sent," says Nick Winkler, a spokesman for the Pennsylvania Department of State, when asked to confirm the data. "If you want to add them together, I think it's misleading."

    Yes, it's usually misleading to add numbers. Pennsylvania journalists should report every individual number separately, and just write 1,636,168 different stories about the topic.

    I'll let you in on a little secret about Pennsylvania; Democrats can only win there by running up the score in Philadelphia. So disqualifying 43% of their electorate comes in very handy, if you're a Republican. That's why the House Majority Leader in the state said previously that the law will "allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania."  

    I have to say that, on the whole, the last people I would ever trust to protect and defend the right to vote are Republicans; they simply do no understand that voting rights are not tools to be manipulated in order to win elections.  And yet, time and again, we see this going on in one form or another.

    It needs to stop.

    The GOP (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by cal1942 on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:16:46 AM EST
    doesn't care at all about the law, the principle nor the morality of tampering with the right to vote.

    They completely understand what they're doing.

    For their sense of "morality" and propriety the right to vote certainly is a tool to be manipulated.

    They have no compunction about denying the vote to any person or group they feel will vote for their opponents.

    Today's GOP is a southern based party and I'm sure everyone is aware that denying the vote is tradition.  Poll taxes in the south pre-date the Civil War, used in the antebellum period to prevent poor whites from voting.

    The GOP has promoted the voter fraud myth for years to get a crack at limiting the right to vote to all but their own supporters.

    The GOP's imperative isn't governance it's power and only power.


    I Would Also Add... (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:26:28 AM EST
    ...that if they actually cared about fraud, expired ID's wouldn't disqualify.  

    And everything is a tool to be manipulated for election, from gerrymandering to ID's to removing registered voters to discrediting a War Veteran to making sure sure votes are never counted to politicizing the government.

    Lucky for us they are so incompetent at actually governing, we are able to overcome those obstacles and still win from time to time.  But then again it sucks, had they actually believed in the democratic process, the country would have never had GWB unleashed upon it, and we probably wouldn't be talking about jobs, the economy, the wars, or the massive deficit.


    I have voted in all (none / 0) (#171)
    by NYShooter on Fri Jul 27, 2012 at 07:15:36 PM EST
     National elections since Nixon-Humphrey, all with no problem. But, if I had to vote today under the terms of the I.D. bills demanded by the Republicans I would be ineligible.

    Some years ago I needed to travel overseas, but I didn't have a passport. And, since I became a citizen by virtue of my parent's naturalization after emigrating to America I had no documents. It took me over six months of applications, including having to go to Manhattan for interviews, and lots of money for lawyers, before I was finally issued a document stating I was a citizen.

    These new attempts at requiring voter I.d's may be a little easier to obtain than a passport, but that's not their point. Since most people don't think about these things until its almost time to vote, any delay in getting an I.d. would accomplish their goal......disqualifying Democratic voters.


    I have to get an Alabama drivers license (none / 0) (#172)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 28, 2012 at 03:11:44 PM EST
    now.  My wallet was stolen, my Colorado I.D. gone and I'm no place near CO to get a new one.  I have already replaced my military I.D., that was the easy one.  Because we bought a house here, even though I am an active duty military spouse and can claim residency in the state that I began this endeavor in, I'm thinking that I cannot vote in CO now or probably should not.  I will have to take the drivers test here too.  I'm still considered licensed though legally because my CO driver's license is still valid.  What a FUBAR though.

    Try this... (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Jul 28, 2012 at 03:50:01 PM EST
    Out of State replacement form

    If that link doesn't work, here's the webpage that links to it.


    If you want to follow the PA voter ID case (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by Peter G on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 04:39:35 PM EST
    in detail, I recommend the blog of the ACLU-PA.  If you want to support the great work that ACLU of PA is doing on this case to expose the "Voter ID" fraud (the real fraud, that is, which is the claim that we need Voter ID laws), you can contribute here.  To avoid the adverse U.S. Supreme Court precedent set in the poorly-litigated Indiana case, the PA case is being brought under the State Constitution's right to vote (Article I, section 5).  Unfortunately, that means the plaintiffs can't invoke federal civil rights law, which includes a provision for attorneys fees if they win; state law does not allow for that.  So contributions are particularly needed.

    To me this points to a larger issue (1.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Slado on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:36:01 AM EST
    1/2 million people living in Philly don't have ID?  How do they eat and collect services becuase they don't have a job if they don't have ID right?

    Second of all it's my understanding that this particular ID is not the only one necessary to be able to vote.

    So for these reasons I think this is a tempest in a teapot article if I may say so.  I find it hard to believe 1 million plus people are going to be disenfranchised by this law.


    More from the article: (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:45:26 AM EST
    The number of voters who will lack proper ID is indeed impossible to determine: Some voters without PennDOT ID may be inactive, or have a valid form of federal or student identification, while others without proper ID may not have yet registered to vote.

    "The database was never meant to say 'this is how many people don't have IDs,'" says Winkler, emphasizing that this office is focused on ensuring that all Pennsylvanians have the proper ID in November. "You guys want specific numbers that don't exist, and those numbers change on a daily basis."

    But it is the state's very inability to determine a final estimate of just how many Pennsylvanians might be impacted by the law that has fueled criticism. Initially, the state said that only 1 percent lacked valid ID. On July 3, that number skyrocketed when the Pennsylvania Secretary of State announced that 758,939 registered voters in the state, or 9 percent, may not have PennDOT IDs. In Philadelphia, 186,830 registered voters were not found in the PennDOT database, or 18 percent.

    Whatever the exact number that could lack IDs is, it appears to be many, many times larger than original state estimates.

    "The reality is that thousands more Philadelphians will be impacted by the voter ID law than was originally maintained by the State Department," says Ellen Kaplan of the good government group Committee of Seventy, which is working to help people get valid ID. "Even taking the lowest possible number, it's a huge hurdle to overcome."

    If there's a tempest in a teapot, it is not in answering the question of how many people really don't have ID, but in answering the question of why a state that has no documented voter fraud is trying to legislate voter ID requirements.


    What is Your Point ? (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:45:28 AM EST
    You can't understand why people don't have ID's and that you don't believe the numbers ?

    Last year, I spent about half of it with an expired ID, which in Philly would have prevented me from voting.  I just didn't feel like taking a half day off to and sitting down at the DPS.

    And yet I managed to do all those things you mentioned, including boarding an airplane.

    So it has to make sense to you, and if it doesn't, then you are down with with legislation without understanding the problem ?  Or it their fault they don't live life like you ?  And then when you the numbers are presented, you just tell yourself they are bogus ?

    Republicans just garnered a million votes for a problem that doesn't exist, you must be proud of your party.  Real champions of democracy...


    Funny (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by cal1942 on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:45:54 AM EST
    I never recall being asked for a picture ID.  I was asked for my Social Security number but I don't recall anyone even asking to see the card.

    Three past employers were national/international corporations and one was state government. Two former employers were regional.

    I was never paid "under the table."

    In large eastern cities many people don't drive and have no use for a drivers license.  Some simply don't have the money to buy other forms of government ID.

    The real myth, the tempest in a teapot is the GOP voter fraud myth.

    The GOP's intent is obvious.


    Ah but... (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by christinep on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 02:13:48 PM EST
    The type of ID is more specific than picture ID.... My understanding is that the requirements are more severe than the Indiana law, which was earlier court-tested & upheld.  I recall that the specific IDs required are federal or state issued government ID, a U.S. passport, & another special voter ID listed for this purpose.  Other states with ID requirements include reasonably identifying documents as qualifiers.

    A bit of embarrassment reported for the present Governor Corbett (R) who signed the new law passed by the Republican legislature there: When asked by a reporter about the types of ID allowed...he couldn't remember the specific types allowed (see TPM story today.)  

    An elderly woman is present at the hearing being conducted into the matter of whether this legislation violates the State Constitution. She is important for a number of reasons, including any demonstration of identifiable threats to individuals' ability to vote & for standing purposes.  Apparently, the woman has voted in every election for years & years...but, since she does not drive & since she cannot produce the original (or facsimile?) birth certificate, she will be denied the right to vote.  (Apparently, also, the offices in the state are not equipped to handle her kind or similar situation.)

    While I cannot recall the name of the Republican state legislator who publicly (the audio is available)proclaimed that--with this new ID requirement--you can put PA in the Republican column, several Philadelphia stories have repeated his comment to fellow Republican gathering wherein he noted that they could "check that one off" the list in getting Romney elected.  <For further info., see Philly.com & Philadelphia Inquirer.>

    Yep, the "check off" the list comment noted above sure seems like the legislation is aimed at helping voters, etc. <snark.>  Since the State has been asked to produce some evidence of the fraud it is trying to prevent and has not responded & admitted it has no identifiable example of said fraud...what are we to deduce.

    If the election is seen/believed/considered/thought/looks like it stolen in Philadelphia, PA, the only thing I can say is: Florida 2000 will look sweet & honorable by comparison.  Since I don't want to go off the deep end myself with hyperbole, however, I'll remanin optimistic that a judicial resolution will be had by the Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court that somehow manages to not take away the right to vote of thousands upon thousands of citizens in Philadelphia as well as elsewhere in the Keystone State.  

    At some point, when it comes to such obvious attempts to take away the vote from numerous citizens--all in the name of doing what it takes to win the election for Romney--it is more than traditional or even not-so-traditional hardball politics.  It is a destabilizing threat to what girds & supports our American institutions.


    the woman you refer to who can't produce a (5.00 / 4) (#113)
    by DFLer on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 05:01:43 PM EST
    birth certificate said (on the tv report I saw, sorry no link) that she had been trying for ten years to get her BC from (some southern state) with no success. Remember, many states did not issue BCs to people of color in the day.

    No (2.00 / 1) (#159)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 27, 2012 at 08:55:12 AM EST
    I don't believe that claim. More likely:

    Her mother's midwife/doctor simply failed to file one with the state.


    "Don't believe it"? (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Yman on Fri Jul 27, 2012 at 09:20:47 AM EST
    Based on what?

    When Thelma Mitchell, a retired state employee, learned that her old employee ID (which was issued by the state and included her photo) wouldn't meet Tennessee's new voter ID law, she went to a motor vehicle office to obtain a valid photo ID. The agency asked her for a birth certificate, but she didn't have one and was denied her request for a new ID.

    Mitchell, 93, has never had a birth certificate. She wasn't born in a hospital and was delivered by a midwife, in Alabama in 1918. Birth certificates, particularly for African-Americans in the South, weren't regularly generated at the time. As a result, Mitchell may not be able to vote this year for the first time in decades.



    My mouth nor stomach never asked for ID... (4.50 / 2) (#19)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:48:38 AM EST
    before accepting food;)

    And lots of jobs require no ID...commonly referred to as "off the books" jobs.  Plus entrepenuers in the black markets, no ID required there.  

    We've got more than enough outfits demanding our papers...no mas.  Especially where the sacred right to vote is concerned.  I've never shown an ID to vote in my life, and I hope I never have to.

    Regarding the faux threat of voter fraud influencing elections, if we must do something I think it would be better to put the burden on election offcials to prove a voter wasn't eligible, rather than putting any new burden on the voter to obtain and produce papers and prove their eligibility.


    How would you (none / 0) (#25)
    by jbindc on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:55:53 AM EST
    prove a voter wasn't eligible?

    That's the authorities problem;) (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:05:18 AM EST
    The law and order racket is difficult by design, limits the spread of tyranny.  

    If the state is saying people are voting illegally, the burden should be on the state to prove it....rather than placing a new ID burden on voters.


    Ah, but if you want them to prove it (2.00 / 1) (#39)
    by jbindc on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:15:17 AM EST
    All they'd have to say is "We can match this voter by some form of ID." Easy enough.



    No... (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:18:19 AM EST
    prove with documentation the voter was born in a foreign country and not on a farm in Western PA.

    In the case of a ex-con barred from voting, produce the conviction record.  

    Lack of ID is not proof of ineligibility.


    Well (2.00 / 1) (#48)
    by jbindc on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:37:18 AM EST
    You can still have been born in a foreign country and vote - if you become a citizen, so that argument makes no sense. Some jurisdictions allow green card holders to vote in local elections (oh wait, they would have a form of ID with them....)

    Sure - let the state produce the conviction record. It wouldn't be hard and would only take a few clicks of the mouse.  Set up the election workers with computers into the state offender database system.  They could pull up a record on every person that comes to vote and see who was a felon.  You could also give them access to court and county databases and see who is registered in another jurisdiction, who got divorced, medical records, etc. Interesting that you, who doesn't like government intrustion, really wants the state to starting digging into people's lives to cast a vote instead of having some volunteer just look at an ID card (like maybe their voter registration card)?  

    Maybe the state could just take DNA from challenged voters and then check it against that database... <snark>


    Don't be obtuse.... (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:49:08 AM EST
    prove the foreign born voter is both foreign born and never became a citizen/"legal" resident alien.

    Who said anything about database access?  I'm saying if the legitimacy of a vote is challenged, after an election, produce the proof of ineligibility.  At the polls, it should be assumed you are who you say you are...no background checks, no ID.  You walk in, give your name, poll worker matches name to voter roll, voter signs voter roll next to their name, voter votes...it's how we do in NY, at least at my polling place.  


    I believe it to be entirely logical that ... (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 01:25:13 PM EST
    ... a registered voter who's on the voter rolls can only vote once. So, exactly what sort of fraud would you be ostensibly trying to prevent, by requiring that voter who shows him- or herself at the polls to produce a government-issued I.D. before receiving his or her ballot?

    Further, in the history of our country, those instances in which electoral fraud has been documented and verified have occurred in the counting of the votes, and not in casting of ballots.

    So again, what problem are you trying to solve by requiring a voter to produce a government-issued I.D. at the polls before obtaining a ballot?

    Still further, increasing numbers of states are looking to conduct their elections by mail, including Hawaii.

    I think you'd agree that it's undoubtedly problematic to require voters in those states, as well as absentee voters in other states, to produce a government-issued I.D. when casting their ballots, since it's done mostly by mail.

    One could quite logically and reasonably argue that requiring one subset of voters to produce a government-issued I.D. before being allowed to vote, while giving another subset a pass, is an unconstitutional violation of the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment.

    So again, what problem are we're really trying to address here, by requiring a voter at the polls to produce a government-issued I.D. before obtaining a ballot?



    Wasn't it Stalin... (none / 0) (#155)
    by unitron on Fri Jul 27, 2012 at 06:21:23 AM EST
    ...who said it doesn't matter who votes, but who counts the votes?

    Seems like he'd know.


    Where do you see that a PennDOTID is needed (none / 0) (#21)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:51:56 AM EST
    to have a job or get services? According to their web site it lets you :

    If you don't have a driver's license, you can use a state ID card to check into a hotel, buy booze, board an airline, and apply for a driver's license or passport.

    And the alternatives to it that allow you to vote are a passport, student ID, or gov employment ID. So yes, we can probably reduce the numbers a tad to allow for that, but it still is an issue.


    Another question (none / 0) (#27)
    by jbindc on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:57:44 AM EST
    How many of those people who allegedly don't have ID will actually come to vote?

    Doesn't matter (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:02:55 AM EST
    They still have the right to vote. Government has to provide the opportunity.

    When I lived in NY, I didn't have valid ID (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by nycstray on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 01:01:15 PM EST
    for YEARS. Neither did a couple of friends that I knew of. All we needed in the way of ID was something with an photo and BD so we could drink at the stadiums :D We all voted in every election.

    There's that thing about not driving in cities and never needing an ID for anything else where you tend to let any existing ID you have expire. I'm currently residing in CA without ID (stolen). Yes, I voted in the primaries. When I moved here, my expired (by 10+ years) passport worked just fine for cashing checks etc. Can't remember what possessed me to get a current ID, but it was stolen about 2weeks later, lol!~


    That's not the point. (4.25 / 4) (#36)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:09:21 AM EST
    But I trust you will find 14 more irrelevant questions to ask that don't address the point, which is that Pennsylvania is creating a law for something they have no documented evidence is a problem.

    And they are doing it to influence the outcome of an election.


    There's no reason to be nasty (2.00 / 1) (#37)
    by jbindc on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:13:59 AM EST
    Although that has been par the for the course around here lately.

    I was asking a question. One that is relevant when someone throws out statisitics such as this. Apparently, if that seems to pose a challenge to beliefs, that is not tolerated around here.

    The correct response is one of two: "Authorities estimate that of this group __ number are not expected to vote because (they moved, they are deceased, etc.)"

    The other response is: "I don't know."


    another one is (5.00 / 4) (#52)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:48:10 AM EST
    "motive is everything."

    As long as we're  into honesty, why don't we just admit that suppressing Democratic voters is the only purpose for this initiative. But, like a cop will use the pretext of "weaving," or "not coming to a complete stop" in order to get a look into your car, or some other reason, voter fraud is being used to deny Democrats the right to vote.

    I've heard all the rationale the Republicans are using for this bill, and guess what? I would let it slide IF the News reporters actually told the truth when reporting on this story:

    "Today the Republicans began the process of requiring certain kinds of I.D's in order to be allowed to vote. Independent experts claim that, historically and empirically, this has never been an issue of any significance. And the cost of implementing this program so far outstrips any benefit that traditional Conservative Republicans are referring to it as "Lunacy." Retired Republican Congressman, John Whathappenedtomyparty, appearing on Fix-is-In News said, the least this new crop of whipper snappers should do is tell the folks, "Look, the D's have been Jammin it to us with their give-a-ways for so long, so this is just a way for us to cram it up theirs for a change."

    Voter fraud?
    "Please, like Michael Corleone said to Carlo Rizzi, just before having him killed,you're insulting my intelligence."


    I'm not being nasty; in fact, you're proving (5.00 / 4) (#56)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 12:52:46 PM EST
    me right by continuing to ask questions that are irrelevant.

    So, here are some questions for you:

    1.  why does it matter who isn't going to vote?  

    2.  why is it important to quantify the number of people who aren't going to vote?

    3.  why is Pennsylvania trying to pass a law that addresses a "problem" it hasn't investigated and can't document that it has?

    4.  why is this "problem" one that comes up almost exclusively in states run by Republicans?

    Maybe if you focus on these questions you will come to realize what the point is.

    Japan's mens soccer team leads Spain (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:32:27 AM EST
    1:0 and they are hanging tough.  They've played their socks off.  Are they going to beat them?

    I still can't believe our men... (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:14:42 AM EST
    didn't qualify...harsh.

    But how about our women?  Storming back from a 2 goal deficit to beat France 4-2 in their opener.  My favorite player, she of the pinpoint crosses and chock full of hustle, Megan Rapinoe, set up Wambach for the header off the corner for one of the goals.

    Here's a nice write up on Rapinoe on ESPN.

    Get that gold girls!


    I missed that game (none / 0) (#41)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:17:32 AM EST
    I suppose that was why I was watching this morning, and I only listened to the end of BTD and MOT because Japan was beating Spain 1:0 :)  Sorry man, priorities :)

    I pity the squad... (none / 0) (#43)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:20:53 AM EST
    that has to play Spain next.

    They must be going bonkers in Tokyo...Japan Futbol is on a roll!


    One of their defenders was red carded though (none / 0) (#45)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:24:49 AM EST
    I don't think he can play in the next game.  I think it was Jordi Alba

    We are on additional time of 4 minutes now (none / 0) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:33:45 AM EST
    And Japan almost scored on Spain again.

    My mother said the same thing... (none / 0) (#13)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:36:03 AM EST
    what's up with Spain?

    Hey, Jeff, how are you? (5.00 / 3) (#131)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 06:30:59 PM EST
    Are you recovering okay? Is the catheter gone yet?

    I'm thinking of you, mi compadre.


    Japan beats Spain!! (none / 0) (#15)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:38:34 AM EST
    But this is not the national (none / 0) (#22)
    by brodie on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:52:22 AM EST
    team from Spain that won the Euro and World Cups.  In Olympic competition for men -- unlike basketball for instance -- futbol squads field only under-23 year olds, with allowance for up to 3 players over 23.  Not sure if women's Olympic soccer have these same age restrictions.  Probably not.

    Spain and Brazil are/were favored (none / 0) (#34)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:06:07 AM EST
    for the gold medal.

    I think they field younger players (none / 0) (#18)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:47:21 AM EST
    it's not quite the same folks as are on the national team that won the Euro championship.  I think.

    I don't know if it is true (none / 0) (#31)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:03:09 AM EST
    I heard from my husband that the oldest player on the Japan team was 23. He wasn't sure if it was true though, it was just something that he had heard someplace.

    Different teams (none / 0) (#32)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:05:03 AM EST
    Still a shocking upset as Spain's U19 team won the world tourney.

    The bookmakers said that Spain (none / 0) (#35)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:08:04 AM EST
    was in line for the gold medal though.  Probably the wrong bookmakers?

    Nah... (none / 0) (#47)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:30:37 AM EST
    hard to argue with the bookmakers reasoning.  

    As the degens at OTB say when the heavy favorite gets beat and they're shredding their tickets, "that's why they run the race."


    Since 1992 the rules for (none / 0) (#49)
    by brodie on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:38:06 AM EST
    men's soccer at the Olympics is the under-23 rule w/three players over that age allowed as I noted here earlier, per wiki.

    And yes, Spain was a favorite to win, but predicting outcomes for this younger age group is twice as dicey as for the older players.

    Japan clearly outplayed, outran and outpressured Spain today.


    Jesse sounds great today. (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:49:33 AM EST
    Thanks for fixing that.

    You are simply wrong as a factual matter.

    If no law is passed, the Bush tax cuts will expire. Period.

    thus the Senate passed a tax cut.

    You folks are simply incorrect.

    If ya happen to know... (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:59:31 AM EST
    the top secret undisclosed location of Romney's London Bankster party, United Steel Workers would like to know....they've got two gold medals they'd like to give him. One for excellence in austerity for thee and not for me, and another for achievement in financial secrecy.

    What's up with him (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by nycstray on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 12:49:50 PM EST
    having fundraisers across the pond? Not enough Anglo-Saxon bucks over here through CU?

    Anglo Saxon bucks... (none / 0) (#58)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 01:02:05 PM EST
    I like that one stray. No doubt super duper business man Romney is begging for anglo saxon pounds or dollars, not multi-cultural euros.  

    "Different" America & "Different" Europe;)

    Unless of course its a lot of euros, then Mitt busts out his patented flip-flop two-step.  


    That would be the British pound sterling, kdog. (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 01:05:21 PM EST
    No Euros for our anglo-saxon brethren across the greta pond.

    That's why you're in charge... (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 01:15:34 PM EST
    if we ever get to plundering any booty, Capt. Casey;)

    Count me in! (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 04:14:23 PM EST
    I'm all for plundering some booty! But don't we first have to find someplace to pillage?



    Good with boats down here... (none / 0) (#115)
    by fishcamp on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 05:15:42 PM EST
    Like the lady said... (none / 0) (#156)
    by unitron on Fri Jul 27, 2012 at 06:26:34 AM EST
    ...it takes a pillage.

    According to the AP's Kasie Hunt, ... (none / 0) (#91)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 04:00:14 PM EST
    ... the Romney fundraiser was "undersold," which I believe is a polite term for "it bombed."

    Don't get to flippy (none / 0) (#160)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 27, 2012 at 08:57:39 AM EST
    Obama's minions are having one in Singapore.

    Anglo-Saxon bucks (none / 0) (#75)
    by DFLer on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 02:19:31 PM EST
    New acronym:


    or ASS wad.


    Hope increasing the a$$ wad... (none / 0) (#76)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 02:29:13 PM EST
    is successful because Mitt is really sh*tting the bed on the diplomacy end of his trip.

    He's already offended his hosts by questioning London's preparedness for the games, and possibly not knowing or forgeting Labour Party leader Ed "Red Ed" Miliband's name.  Linkage

    And I think he signed a blood oath never to apologize to a foreign country for anything...if this was a diplomacy try-out, epic fail!

    Love David Cameron's retort to the Olympics critique...sick burn!

    British Prime Minister, David Cameron, was later prompted to respond to Romney's comments saying: "We are holding an Olympic Games in one of the busiest, most active, bustling cities anywhere in the world. Of course it's easier if you hold an Olympic Games in the middle of nowhere."

    "the middle of nowhere"...hilarious (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by DFLer on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 03:35:10 PM EST
    ...cementing that long tradition of Anglo-Saxon relations, of which President Obama knows nothing!

    Love it (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 03:46:12 PM EST
    You know it strikes me that after one of the least clowniest clowns in the clown car locked up the nomination we forgot for a moment that it was a clown car. Thanks for the reminder mitt.

    Very well put... (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 03:51:51 PM EST
    Romney's only play to appear half-human is to always be in the company of Michelle, Herman, Rick, Newt, & Rick.

    The campaign needs to hire them all to stand around Mitt at all times.


    Mitt Romney's "Charm Offensive"... (5.00 / 3) (#84)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 03:46:25 PM EST
    The Telegraph nailed it..."devoid of charm, and mildly offensive."

    More evidence that it's not us, it's Mitt...the Anglos have spoken!


    Charlie Pierce (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 03:53:56 PM EST
    Now time for Michelle Obama to turn on the charm (5.00 / 4) (#92)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 04:03:54 PM EST
    over there and nicely explain him away as our crazy uncle in the attic. I feel sure she is up to the task.

    The video with the Mayor of London @Hyde Park (none / 0) (#90)
    by christinep on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 03:57:47 PM EST
    ...today...as the torch bearer runs through the nearby streets...and the Mayor exorting the crowd of an estimated 60,000 people in the park, asks everyone if they "are ready" for the Olympics...he asks while saying that someone coming from abroad named Mitt Romney questions whether London is ready...and so, the crowd cheers loudly "yes."

    What a day, huh!  The diplomat? The knowledgeable international businessman? The foreign policy expert?  Definitely NOT.  To rub in the salt (not even from the Salt Lake), a reporter from London's Daily Mail tweets that ol' Mitt is worse than Palin.


    linky? (none / 0) (#99)
    by nycstray on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 04:18:04 PM EST
    would like to read it with my bestest british accent rolling through my head :)

    Perfect quote. I'm seeing a nice Mitt rally shirt there, lol!~


    Here's a link with some of Mitt's (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 06:37:00 PM EST
    Greatest Great Britain Blunders. The British press is comparing Mitt to Palin, and Palin comes out on top.

    The White House sticks a well-earned shiv in the Mittster and gives it a little turn:

    White House Spokesman Jay Carney said, "In keeping with our special relationship, the president also made it clear that he has the utmost confidence in our close friend and ally, the United Kingdom, as they finalize preparations to host the London Olympics."

    Romney is just falling down (none / 0) (#140)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 07:14:39 PM EST
    at London as a  bridge for his anti-furiner base--they will love it (if not him) for it.   Romney may have lifted his strategy from Big Bill Thompson, Mayor of Chicago (1915-1923; and again, 1927-193l).  In addition to being known to history as one of the most corrupt American mayors, he was a flamboyant campaigner--debating himself with two live rats which he used to portray his opponents, and, as relevant to our "Romney goes to London bloopers"  claimed for his base that if he ever met King George V, he would punch him in the nose.  It worked with Big Bill's Know-nothings and he easily defeated his opponents, err ..rats.   However, he was the last Republican to serve as mayor of Chicago.  Now, Romney is not flamboyant, but he can leave the rest to his running mate, Pawlenty.

    That may work in Chicago, where (none / 0) (#141)
    by Towanda on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 07:21:02 PM EST
    there are more Irish than there are in Dublin, and toasts are lifted to this day to the cry of "Damn the Brits!"

    But it will not play the same in Peoria. . . .


    Boy, Mittens is on a real roll, isn't he? (5.00 / 4) (#87)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 03:55:02 PM EST
    Less than 24 hours in London, and:
    • An anonymous Romney campaign aide uses an indirect racial slur in the British press to characterize President Obama's handling of Anglo-American relations, which the campaign is compelled to walk back;
    • The candidate himself insults his hosts by criticizing Britain's Olympic preparation relative to his own leadership in 2002;
    • The Mayor of London delights a Hyde Park crowd of 60,000-plus by openly ridiculing the U.S. GOP presidential candidate; and
    • The campaign is being questioned in both the U.S. and British media on the propriety of holding a fundraiser in England.

    And the reviews are pouring in:
    • Tom McCarthy, The Guardian: "My colleague Adam Gabbatt rounds up Mr. Romney's big day abroad, with a gaffe rating for each of the candidate's flubs. We just hope this hasn't been prematurely compiled. It's only 9.30pm in London."
    • Pundit John Poderetz: "Romney in London. Come on. We needed this. It's a little comic relief. Kind of like Mr. Bean, only he's an American."
    • The Guardian: "Can Mitt Romney single-handedly scotch the special relationship in the space of a three-day visit?"

    Yessiree, the Romneypalooka 2012 tour is sure off to a rousing and rip-roaring start.

    After England... (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 04:19:57 PM EST
    ...it's off to the Israel for the real fundraising shekels.  

    There has got to be a good joke in there,
    A Mormon walks into an Israeli fundraiser as says...  

    For all the Kenya, Muslim, Africa, madrassa BS, those republicans sure don't mind their own horse having fundraisers in foreign countries.  If Obama was doing the same thing, holly hell...

    I know only Americans can donate, but surely there is a Super-PAC pulling clean-up that will take all those foreign checks.


    I can see the Ha'aretz headline now: (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by shoephone on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 05:16:34 PM EST
    Romney Demures on Wearing Yarmulke For Friday Evening Sabbath Services:
    "My Anglo-Saxon Hair Can't Tolerate Hats!" pleads candidate.

    That's too long a headline! (5.00 / 3) (#138)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 07:04:26 PM EST
    Ha'aretz could suffice with one word:



    Mittens' Excellent Adventure? (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by nycstray on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 04:39:38 PM EST
    Or, as The Guardian's Tom McCarthy ... (none / 0) (#124)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 05:54:35 PM EST
    ... has openly opined tonight: "Do we actually have another Dubya on our hands?"

    I thank you all (5.00 / 3) (#134)
    by Towanda on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 06:46:10 PM EST
    for the need to clean my computer screen, reading through the saga of Mitt in Merry Olde Englande.  I have not been able to keep up on the nooz today, so I had missed all of this -- and, most delicious, the marvelous media reaction there.

    Oh, if only we could see the emails from the England desk of the State Department to Hillary Clinton about all of this, as the woman has such a great guffaw, no doubt heard today all through its halls.

    Please, please tell me that Our Mitt is to meet the Queen?  


    Probably not if ... (none / 0) (#136)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 06:55:52 PM EST
    ... Her Britannic Majesty has anything to say about it.



    I especially recommend (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by Towanda on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 06:54:46 PM EST
    the comments on the second link above from Donald.

    And I particularly like the suggestion that Mitt is sure to apologize to the English.

    In French.


    ... speaks fluent Swiss.



    French, German or Cheese? (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by DFLer on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 08:41:22 PM EST
    And the hits keep a comin' . . . (none / 0) (#151)
    by nycstray on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 09:39:48 PM EST
    If anyone ought to know the IOC rules (none / 0) (#153)
    by Towanda on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:48:24 PM EST
    which are incredibly inflexible about use of the Olympics logo and much else -- unless paying for the use, of course, which makes the IOC get all warm and fuzzy and friendly in a flash -- would it not be the guy taking credit for running such a great Olympiad in, y'know, the "middle of nowhere"?

    With our millions in taxes to bail it out, of course.

    (I speak from experience of the IOC's heavy hand, having dealt with it in my earlier life in advertising on the Olympics.  Their contracts are scary.  That was the clause about sending a goon squad personally to my door to collect my cats to feed them to a shark if we crossed the IOC rules.)


    The only remaining Olympic artifact of (none / 0) (#157)
    by Anne on Fri Jul 27, 2012 at 08:36:40 AM EST
    Romney's association with the organization is, apparently, the size of his ego.  Oh, and the size of the gaffes he's been making.

    No doubt he still feels as if heading up the SLC Olympics entitles him to lifetime use of the logo, the footage and whatever else he deems useful.

    Seriously, I'm beginning to feel like he is GWB without the Texas twang, so much so that were Romney to go head-to-head with a box of rocks in an intelligence test, I might have to put my money on the rocks.


    Remember, this is the guy who lost to Palin (none / 0) (#163)
    by Farmboy on Fri Jul 27, 2012 at 09:31:24 AM EST
    for the VP nod in 2008.

    I wonder if Mitt learned about "Anglo-Saxon" relations from her?

    He who warned, uh, the British that they weren't gonna be takin' away our arms, uh, by ringing those bells, and um, makin' sure as he's riding his horse through town to send those warning shots and bells that we were going to be sure and we were going to be free, and we were going to be armed.

    Oh, dear Lord, I'd forgotten - or at least (none / 0) (#169)
    by Anne on Fri Jul 27, 2012 at 12:09:56 PM EST
    made an attempt to forget - that dazzling example of intellectual heft from La Palin.

    I read things like that, and I just shake my head and wonder still why anyone - anyone - would think Palin capable of holding any office, much less VP, one heartbeat away from the top spot.

    The choice of Palin was a shove-their-nose-in-it, take-that!-Dems-don't-have-the-balls-to-put-a-woman-on-the-ticket-but-we-do move; of all the women they could have chosen, the choice of Palin typifies what's so terribly wrong with the Republicans' overall decision-making process.

    And Romney?  I guess the GOP doesn't mind having a whole lot of stupid at the top.


    On Young Turks last night they displayed (none / 0) (#166)
    by ruffian on Fri Jul 27, 2012 at 10:51:20 AM EST
    an actual Olympics pin, the kind collectors collect, from the Salt Lake Olympics that was made in Romney's actual likeness. I kind you not. [ http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/made-in-china-olympic-pin-shaped-like-mitt-romneys-face /] Here is link. It is soooo funny.

    sorry i messed up the link Jeralyn (none / 0) (#167)
    by ruffian on Fri Jul 27, 2012 at 10:52:03 AM EST
    click it though - guaranteed chuckle.

    One More Review, but a good One (none / 0) (#158)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jul 27, 2012 at 08:48:08 AM EST
    Mitt Romney is perhaps the only politician who could start a trip that was supposed to be a charm offensive by being utterly devoid of charm and mildly offensive.

    His derisory comments questioning Britain's preparedness for the Olympics in an interview with NBC were a strange way to build bridges with a country that he says should be restored as the umbilical ally of the United States, and a strange way to demonstrate the persuasive qualities needed as leader of the free world.

    Alex Spillius, a Daily Telegraph columnist


    Like Moses delivering... (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 01:19:49 PM EST
    the Israelites from Egypt, Cortland NY is expecting Timmy Tebow to deliver busloads of church groups to NY Jets training camp to further boost the local economy.

    I just hope a holy war doesn't break out...traditional Jets fans cuss like sailors, drink like fish, and ain't shy with the heckling when a QB hits receivers in the shins.  Culture clash!

    Hahahaha! (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 01:26:57 PM EST
    I love the image of the intersection of the church groups with the Jets fans. Pass the popcorn, I want to be a spectator!
    Same type of thing, BTW, I would expect from the intersection of church groups with, say, Philadelphia Phillies fans.    ;-)

    Ground and Pound, Baby! (none / 0) (#68)
    by nycstray on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 01:30:42 PM EST
    To bad the Jets aren't on (none / 0) (#67)
    by nycstray on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 01:28:34 PM EST
    HardKnocks this season. Would love to watch Ryan coaching Timmy, foul mouth and all! :D

    The Big Tebowski... (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 01:48:02 PM EST
    Timmy: "I like your style Coach."

    Ryan: "I dig your style too Tim, you got a whole christian thing going."

    Timmy: "There's just one thing Coach..."

    Ryan: "And what's that?"

    Timmy: "Do you have to use so many cuss words?"

    Ryan: "What the f*ck you talking about Tim?"

    Timmy: "Have it your way Coach"

    Ryan: "Lets get a f*ckin' snack!"


    The Fans, What About Rex Ryan ? (none / 0) (#161)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jul 27, 2012 at 09:19:45 AM EST
    The guy offends me nearly every week, well more like he offends lots of people, sometimes entire cities, and that makes me laugh really hard.

    It will be interesting to see how many Israelites will make the pilgrimage into Gomorrah to bear witness to their messiah sitting on a bench behind a Mexican.


    So on a different note: Greek recipe! (5.00 / 4) (#63)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 01:21:42 PM EST
    As a follow-up to the macaroni and cheese sub-thread in the Tuesday Morning Open Thread, I decided that I really needed to post a Greek recipe.  This is sort of the Greek version of lasagna, or maybe more accurately, the Greek version of a combination of lasagna and macaroni and cheese.  It's one of our favorites.  Enjoy!

            1 lb. macaroni (if you can get the long macaroni, even better, but you can't, use elbows)
        1 1/2 lbs. ground beef
        1 medium onion
        2 cloves garlic, chopped
        8 oz tomato sauce
        ½ cup red wine
        ¼ tsp. ground cinnamon (optional) or one cinnamon stick
        1 pint whole milk
        1/4 c. flour
        1 stick butter
        6 eggs
        6  cups grated kefalotyri (or parmesan or Romano) cheese

    Boil macaroni and drain. Mix into macaroni 2 beaten eggs and 2 cups grated cheese and set aside.
    Brown onions, garlic and beef; drain well. Add tomato sauce, wine and cinnamon (if using) to beef and onions. Mix together and simmer 10 minutes.  Remove cinnamon stick, if using.
    Melt butter in a saucepan; add flour and mix. Add milk to mixture and thicken as for a white sauce. Cool and add 4 beaten eggs and 1 cup grated cheese.  (Note: Add white sauce, a bit at a time, beating the whole while, to the beaten eggs.  When at least half the white sauce has been beaten into the eggs, pour that mixture into the rest of the white sauce, slowly, stirring the whole time.)
    In a medium baking pan (e.g. 9 in. × 13 in.) layer half of the macaroni. Cover with one cup of cheese. Layer on the meat mixture. Add the remaining macaroni and sprinkle with one cup of cheese. Top with the white sauce, working it in with a spoon.  Sprinkle top with remaining one cup of cheese.  Bake at 350 for one hour, or until cooked through and golden brown on top.

    Yummy, I made this a month ago. (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by vml68 on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 01:28:29 PM EST
    I used a very similar recipe.
    I must have some greek blood running in my veins 'cos I looooove greek food!

    Lots of people do, vml68 (none / 0) (#72)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 02:01:36 PM EST
    Especially those who have been exposed to more than just gyros and baklava.  Not that those aren't good, but there is a whole lot more to Greek cooking than that.    ;-)

    I will be making this (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 02:42:03 PM EST
    And I will print the recipe out and stick it in my caddy on the refrigerator because every time I make it, it will literally be like the first time.  Nothing to do with cooking goes into my long term memory, nothing.

    I'd like to thank everyone (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 03:18:55 PM EST
    involved with yesterday's mac and cheese thread. It reminded me of long ago when I made a tuna sandwich using a slice of tuna caught that morning off the Florida coast. While delicious, it was one of the worst financial sandwiches of my life. Prior to that stupendous tuna sandwich delight, I was happy stocking up with Bumble Bee chunk light in water.

    I'll never make that financial mishap again. After reading what everyone had to say, I went to the pantry to find a recent great purchase of buy one get one free Kraft mac and cheese. I broke out a box of threecheesy and gobbled down the deliciousness.

    I won't let you suck my wallet into a lifetime of mouthwatering fancy mac and cheese when threecheesy mini-shells can still be had on the cheap.


    Kraft has a new "homestyle" version (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 03:41:14 PM EST
    that's not too bad - it's about 10 minutes more "work," and it goes into the oven for 10 minutes to melt the shredded cheese and crisp the bread crumbs that get sprinkled over the top.

    Throw in some leftover chicken or ground beef, some well-drained chopped tomato, some sauteed onion/garlic - or whatever you're in the mood for - and it dishes up pretty tasty.

    Seems like maybe we should organize an Iron Chef TL, or a Top Chef TL, gathering someday...we'd probably all have to be rolled to our cars in hand-carts...


    Lol Anne (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by ZtoA on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 04:04:33 PM EST
    And since I am a contrarian and seem compelled to do things I expressly don't like, if I get in on the TL Iron Chef competition, my mac 'n cheese will be sporting tiny marshmallows!

    BTW, I'm enjoying the cooking and sports threads, it feels like the calm before a storm - a political storm. And I appreciate that normalcy can be so pleasant.


    You know, you can take a girl out (5.00 / 3) (#96)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 04:10:23 PM EST
    of the midwest. . .   :-)

    That sounds like a plan (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by sj on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 04:21:18 PM EST
    Seems like maybe we should organize an Iron Chef TL, or a Top Chef TL
    I want to be one of the judges rather than one of the contestants :)

    Now that (none / 0) (#129)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 06:17:13 PM EST
    is a mac and cheese recipe I'd go with. Next time, the homestyle version will come home for a taste test.

    OMG! (5.00 / 4) (#88)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 03:56:29 PM EST
    CoralGables, you do not, you simply do not, make a tuna sandwich out of fresh-caught tuna!  You sear it (preferably on the grill, but in a frying pan, if necessary) until it is slightly charred on the outside but still basically raw on the inside!  A good thing to do is marinate it it briefly first in either an Asian marinade and coat it with black sesame seeds, or marinate in olive oil, white wine, lemon juice, and herbs, and then sear it.
    My  head hurts.  Fresh tuna!  A tuna sandwich!  Unless it was with almost-raw tuna, on very, very good bread.  Think also: sushi, or sashimi, or very close to it.  Please tell me that you did not cook it until well done!  I will not sleep at night until I know.   ;-)

    LOL! That reminds me of the time ... (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 04:26:56 PM EST
    ... years ago when The Spouse was sent by the Coast Guard on temporary assignment up in Seattle, and she bought some fresh oysters and scallops at Pike Place Market. We went back to her friend's place in Burien, and the friend said, "Oh, how wonderful! Here, give them to me -- I'll fix them up for us."

    She sure did. Battered up and deep-fried every single one of those little suckers, and then smothered them with store-bought red cocktail sauce.

    We still laugh when we think about that.


    Oh dear! (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by sj on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 04:46:18 PM EST
    At least you can laugh about it!  I mean, I laughed, but they weren't my scallops and oysters...

    Be well, Donald, keep us posted.


    Aaaaarrrgghhhh! (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 05:01:19 PM EST
    Okay, okay, deep, cleansing breaths.  (Ooommmm.)
    I mean, really!  I had the absolutely best, and I mean best, raw, fresh oysters when Mr. Zorba and I visited the Oregon coast (yes, not the Washington coast, but still).
    Never had really fresh scallops, but if I did, I'd like to bet that they would be better either raw, or barely seared on the outside, with the inside still raw.
    But then, I don't have a problem (far from it) with raw or barely cooked fresh seafood.  Maybe I was Japanese in a previous life, who knows?

    Ha! (5.00 / 3) (#126)
    by ZtoA on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 06:03:19 PM EST
    I lived in New Orleans briefly when I was 20ish and ate raw oysters every day for breakfast (at noon) for about a month. Then, for some odd reason, I didn't eat them again for several decades. But in Oregon I've had raw oysters that taste like the sea, dressed with a bit of onion and vinegar, but lightly.

    'A loaf of bread,' the Walrus said,
    'Is what we chiefly need:
    Pepper and vinegar besides
    Are very good indeed --
    Now, if you're ready, Oysters dear,
    We can begin to feed.

    You might also try ... (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 05:30:30 PM EST
    ... lightly coating the ahi steak with olive oil -- Oops! I should explain that Ahi is Hawaiian for yellowfin tuna -- and then dipping both sides into cajun spices, before searing it on a hot grill (or pan-searing it in a hot skillet with a little olive oil so it doesn't stick), no more than 30-40 seconds per side, to ensure that the ahi steak is rare.

    Cajun Spice (if you make this in bulk, store in airtight container until use)
    Stir together the following ingredients until evenly blended:
    2 teaspoons salt
    2 teaspoons garlic powder
    2 1/2 teaspoons paprika
    1 teaspoon ground black pepper
    1 teaspoon onion powder
    1 teaspoon cayenne pepper
    1 1/4 teaspoons dried oregano
    1 1/4 teaspoons dried thyme

    And for an added treat, I suggest that you serve the blackened seared ahi over a fresh caesar salad.


    Sounds good to me! (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 07:32:29 PM EST
    And I totally agree about the very brief searing, Donald.  Good tuna steaks must be rare, rare, rare!

    more cayenne, surely! (none / 0) (#165)
    by DFLer on Fri Jul 27, 2012 at 10:26:53 AM EST
    Good Bread? (none / 0) (#128)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 06:12:51 PM EST
    Are you telling me I can't go for the bargain $.99 loaf. You guys are killin' me. I did save the Pastitio recipe as that looks right up my ally, but what type of pasta do you suggest?

    Also, just 1/2 cup of red wine? I'll be too toasted to eat after polishing off the rest of the bottle.

    I promise I won't give you insomnia or nightmares. I thereby plead the tuna sandwich 5th.


    Good bread, definitely. But (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by Towanda on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 06:39:12 PM EST
    along the lines of the side discussion of Midwestern cuisine that has me holding my sides, you always could add those tiny marshmallows to keep you on this side of sobriety.  They're great for soaking up the wine.

    There's got to be a party game (5.00 / 2) (#139)
    by nycstray on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 07:11:19 PM EST
    in there somewhere . . . .


    you always could add those tiny marshmallows to keep you on this side of sobriety.  They're great for soaking up the wine.

    If I never eat (5.00 / 3) (#144)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 07:36:47 PM EST
    a sweet potato casserole covered with tiny marshmallows, or a jello salad with tiny marshmallows, again in my entire life, I will die a happy person.  Please, Towanda, you are reminding me of the worst of Midwestern cuisine.  Not to denigrate it, since there is a lot of good food there, but the marshmallow thing.....not so much.    ;-)

    I am entirely in accord with you (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by Towanda on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 08:15:52 PM EST
    on those nightmarish memories from childhood.  Oh, and cream of mushroom soup as a basis for half of the casseroles, always casseroles, on our menu.

    I agree as well that there is so much good cuisine to be had in Heartland.  I mean, fried cheese curds, ain'a hey, dere, huh?

    Waaaait a minute.  I am inspired.  Has no one ever breaded, buttered, and fried the tiny marshmallows?  

    Heck, put those li'l fried suckers on a stick, and we could make a fortune at the State Fair, any state, anywhere in the Midwest.


    Well, if they can (4.50 / 4) (#146)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 08:30:06 PM EST
    deep fry Snickers, butter, Oreos, dill pickles, mac and cheese, Twinkies, even ice cream, why not marshmallows?   LOL!
    Maybe deep fried canned mushroom soup, too- that would be a true Midwestern coup!
    Wait, wait!  Can't somebody come up with a casserole using both canned mushroom soup and marshmallows???  Then we could figure out a way to deep fry that!

    Or pile 'em in a two-foot-long bun? (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Towanda on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 09:33:26 PM EST
    This year's State Fair treat that we are promised here is a two-foot-long Chicago-style hotdog.  With all of the trimmings.  It weighs several pounds (and costs $25).

    I predict that it will not be a hit, as it is not fried, nor is it on a stick.


    No, you cannot use (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 07:30:17 PM EST
    the $.99 loaf!   ;-)
    You can use  more than a half cup of wine in the meat sauce, although no more than a cup because it will get too "wet."  The rest of the wine is supposed to be served with dinner, of course, not to be drunk while you're cooking, LOL!  If it is decent wine, it should breathe awhile after opening and before drinking, anyway.  (I'm not talking about Two-Buck Chuck here, BTW.  Which isn't bad, considering the price- although I think it's "Three-Buck Chuck" or more, now.  Great for cooking, acceptable for drinking on the cheap, though.)
    As for the pasta- get the long macaroni, if you can.  Oftentimes, you can only get this in Italian or Greek stores.  If you can't get the long macaroni, you have my permission to use elbow macaroni or penne pasta.

    It looked so good yesterday (none / 0) (#89)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 03:57:05 PM EST
    But my heart might still be with the KD&B (Kraft Dinner and bacon) dinners we made near the end of Mom's pay period.

    Not that I cook that either!


    Off the foodie topic... (none / 0) (#69)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 01:34:27 PM EST
    Any thoughts on Voula Papachristou being tossed off the Greek Olympic team?

    Needless to say I got no love for her xenophobic comments, but I support the right of athletes to have an opinion and express themselves.  Tossing her off the team was rather harsh.  And forbidding Greek athletes from using any social media to express any personal opinions?  Crazy...why not just send robots to compete?


    Seems Like Her... (none / 0) (#164)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jul 27, 2012 at 10:04:26 AM EST
    ...association with Golden Dawn is what did her in.  It was purely political, it went almost a day until a pol said she needed to be tossed, that she was tossed.

    They are free to express their opinions, but if they are racially insensitive, they might not make it to the Olympics.  And it's sounds cliche', but it's the Olympics, and it suppose to be about all nations coming together and rising above all the politics.  No one wants politics in the games, it's why Romney was taken down good and this girl is at home IMO.

    Plus of course, it opens a spot for someone else.

    Another Greek, Dimitris Chondrokoukis fails doping test.  High jumper with medal expectation.


    Sound heavenly, Zorba! (none / 0) (#95)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 04:08:42 PM EST
    Question: Would ground turkey be an acceptable substitute in this dish for the ground beef?

    The reason I ask is that I'm about to undergo tests next week for a possible blood disorder (polymycemia vera) because my body is apparently producing way too many red blood cells, which leads to potential issues with blood clots, so my doctor doesn't want me to consume any red meat.

    Or perhaps, could you suggest a good vegetarian substitute for the meat altogether?



    I'm not Zorba, nor do I play her on (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 04:16:19 PM EST
    the internet. However, when I am in need of a substitute for meat in a casserole type dish I often bulk it up with leafy greens: swiss chard, kale, spinach. The greens cook down, so I start with a lot of them. And then I throw in some beans, black or cannelloni or pinto or cranberry.

    Not sure if you'd want beans on top of all the macaroni. Although, pasta e faggioli (pasta and beans) is a tasty dish.


    I use 'shrooms (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by nycstray on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 04:19:22 PM EST
    baby belles or their bigger brother :)

    You got there (none / 0) (#105)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 04:34:51 PM EST
    before I did, nycstray!  I love good mushrooms!

    Thank you, casey! (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 05:00:22 PM EST
    I like your suggestion about using cooked leafy greens as a meat substitute in a casserole-type dish.

    And honestly, I just loves me some black beans. I got hooked on them over 20 years ago, back when I was tending bar at Murphy's. I was undergoing chemo and radiation for Hodgkin's Disease at the time, and I had trouble with nausea, particularly when consuming meat.

    So the restaurant owner's wife -- a real earth mother-type, a wonderful woman and great friend -- started making batches of her homemade black bean soup and black bean & broccoli salad to send home with me. It both provided a tasty source of protein and didn't upset my stomach, and really got me through the weeds, nutrition-wise. I've been addicted to black beans ever since, and even use them in cooking up my own version of frijoles.

    I think I'll try this recipe tomorrow night with your recommendation, and see what I come up with.



    Hold up there, Donald (none / 0) (#118)
    by shoephone on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 05:20:14 PM EST
    Murphy's on 45th in Wallingford??

    No. (none / 0) (#121)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 05:39:43 PM EST
    Murphy's Bar & Grill in Honolulu. I helped open the place back in 1987, and still work there on special occasions such as the Annual St. Patrick's Day Block Party, which we now understand to be the biggest single block party thrown by a bar in the entire United States. The police estimated that we had over 30,000 people this year.

    I have been to Murphy's in Wallingford. It's a pretty good place


    Ah gee, I lived in Wallingford 20 yrs ago (none / 0) (#123)
    by shoephone on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 05:47:42 PM EST
    and was hoping you'd served me a pint of Maritime IPA...

    Instead of ground turkey, (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 04:33:34 PM EST
    I would use a whole bunch of sauteed, fresh mushrooms, and if you can, use a variety of mushrooms, especially portabellas and shitakes- they taste better than regular white mushrooms that people usually get.  I have done this when making a meatless dish for vegetarian friends.  Saute the mushrooms in olive oil with a bit of butter, cook the tomato sauce as described above but without the meat, and then add the mushrooms right before the layering.  The mushrooms have a lot of the "umami" taste, and aren't as boring as ground turkey.  Which is fine, in its place, but mushrooms are better.
    You could also take caseyOR's suggestion and use leafy greens.  Or, use slices of eggplant (don't saute them- cut in long, wide strips, brush with olive oil, and broil; make the tomato sauce separately and then coat the broiled eggplant slices well with it, before layering them in the middle).  This would make the pastitsio sort of a cross between pastitsio and moussaka.
    If you do use the ground turkey, I would add more garlic.
    Best of luck with your tests, and I am sending positive thoughts and energy your way, Donald, that everything turns out well for you, my brother!

    Thank you. (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 05:10:28 PM EST
    In addition to your recipe, all of you have given me lots of material to play with. The wife and I love to experiment in the kitchen, and while I'm not ready to give up chicken and fish, we've really gotten into vegetarian cooking. Once a week, she joins me downtown after work, and we'll walk over to Chinatown and go shopping for fresh vegetables at all the open markets down there.

    And speaking of moussaka (none / 0) (#125)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 06:01:25 PM EST
    You can make it without meat, but with eggplant, zucchini, and potatoes.  I do it off the top of my head, without a recipe, but this one is very close to what I do:
    Vegetarian (Meatless) Moussaka Recipe
    I have never used the mashed chick peas, but that would certainly increase the protein content.  Other than that, it's really, really close to my own efforts.  Except that I use a lot more garlic.  And I usually make my own bread crumbs, but that's really not necessary.

    One of my very brainy not liberal friends (5.00 / 3) (#117)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 05:19:00 PM EST
    Says that Romney is such a disaster that she foresees he could lose the nomination by convention.

    LOL! (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by sj on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 05:24:10 PM EST
    Mayhem at the GOP convention (5.00 / 3) (#122)
    by shoephone on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 05:45:13 PM EST
    Santorum and Newtie work out a backroom deal for power-sharing the White House... Hermain Cain gets to make the keynote address... Rick Perry caucuses for adding "immediate and irrevocable southern secession" amendment to the Republican Party Platform... Michele Bachman challenges Calista's right to first ladyship, citing "rumored un-American aquaintances"... Ron Paul holds separate Goopertarian convention outside on the lawn... Jon Huntsman lobbies for Sec of State commitment from Santorum and Newtie, but they can't remember who he is... NBC's Chuck Todd wonders aloud, "Have Mitt and Anne Romney been secretly flown to one of their mansions in the Cayman Islands?"

    Unparalleled entertainment value. Pleeeaaaase can we have a crazy brokered convention?

    They're not going to (none / 0) (#127)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 06:10:35 PM EST
    pay a bit of attention to Santorum or Cain or Bachmann or their ilk, and I doubt that they pay much attention to Newt any more, either.  But I could see a whole lot of "blood on the floor" if the behind-the-scenes Republican manipulators decide that Romney is toast.  If that happens, I'm looking for the "Anointed" Bush inheritor (in other words, Jeb) to assume the royal mantle.  Or someone else of like mind.
    Yes, they need to keep the evangelical nut-cases happy, but those people have no real power in the Republican party- they are just tools to be used.

    i would love a crazy-fest brokered (none / 0) (#130)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 06:19:54 PM EST
    GOP convention. Heck, I might even break down and spring for cable just so I don't miss a second of the coverage should it come to pass.

    Please, please, please let it happen. Please.


    I think it might be more (none / 0) (#1)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 09:54:58 AM EST
    appropriate to describe it not as a tax cut, but as an extension of the current rates on income up to the $250,000 level: the rate isn't being cut, it's being extended, and those with taxable incomes greater than $250K will still get the benefit of the lower rate up to the $250K level.

    I know, I know...it takes longer to say it that way, it looks and sounds better to make it sound like a cut - which it would be if the rates were allowed to expire and then new rates were established - and like it isn't going to apply if the total of your taxable income is more than $250K - not true, because everyone gets the benefit of the lower rate up to $250K - but as much as we rag on the media for their many sins, one of which is distorting information and another is failing to educate the public, I think the least we can do - as much as possible - is do better than that.

    Because we are better than that.

    I know what you mean (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:19:12 AM EST
    but the name of it as 'tax cut' or 'Bush tax cut' is already established.

    I'd like to let them all expire back to the baseline rate, and then if necessary do a new non-expiring tax cut to a new baseline rate. That would get rid of all these name games altogether.


    I hear you - as someone who does a (none / 0) (#9)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:29:38 AM EST
    fair amount of tax work, though, it just bugs me.

    Kind of like how sportswriters and commentators continue to confuse the baseball win/loss differential with "games over .500."  If you've won 51 and lost 43, you've played 94 games, making 47 the .500 point; that means 51 wins puts your team 4 games over .500 - and yet, over and over, I hear them say "8 games over .500."

    Silly, but I don't know why they can't get it right!


    I hate that too (none / 0) (#14)
    by Slado on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:37:35 AM EST
    Why not just say they have a winning Record of a certain percentage.

    In your case..."The Blanks are winning 54% of their games".


    Wow, I have never caught that in the sportcasters (none / 0) (#26)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:57:37 AM EST
    I don't listen very often since the Cubs are many games below .500!  But yes that would irritate the heck out of me if I did. The least I expect out of a baseball commentator is competency with baseball statistics!

    They are not confused (none / 0) (#61)
    by me only on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 01:18:24 PM EST
    The team, during the season, is eight games over .500.  What that means is that if they lose the next 8 games they will be .500.

    It does not make sense to use that terminology when the season is completed.


    Well because (none / 0) (#24)
    by jbindc on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:54:44 AM EST
    It looks good for politicians to say "tax cut", but just because it has become established vernacular, it simply isn't a true statement (shocking, I know, coming from politicians and a very lazy media).

    A tax cut implies that come a certain date, say, January 1st, I will see more money in my paycheck and less being taken out by the government.  THAT would be a tax cut.

    If they pass this extension, then absolutely NOTHING will change in my check, and it is therefore, by definition, not a tax cut.

    There are two outcomes here:  Tax rates (that were enacted in 2001 and 2003) will remain the same or they will go up. There is no "cut" involved - it's either the status quo a tax increase, which of course, no one wants to talk about in an election year.


    yup - that is why they need to get rid (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:59:48 AM EST
    of the 2000 tax cut altogether. It no longer makes sense to call it a tax cut, yet it was by definition non-permanent.

    Let it expire and start from the 2000 baseline.


    In a very real sense (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by cal1942 on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:24:30 AM EST
    it is a tax cut because the Bush tax cuts are due again for sunset.

    Extension of the tax cuts on *income* (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:53:02 AM EST
    under $250K.

    It's rare that I hear any media person put it that way.


    This whole debate is so silly (1.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Slado on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:16:50 AM EST
    it boggles the mind.

    Both sides are pandering because this debate no matter who wins isn't going to solve anything.

    Spending and tax reform are the real issue.  Only pure partisans on both sides think either policy will help anything.

    The Cat Food commission while not perfect was at least an honest attempt to bring our fiscal house in order.

    If republicans get their way we have less revenue and zero spending cuts.   If the democrats get their way we have a little more revenue which they will quickly spend.

    We need real spending cuts and tax reform.  Obama had his chance to actually do all this and he chose not to.


    Money is an INANIMATE OBJECT (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Dadler on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 10:43:33 AM EST
    Do you honestly believe the solution to the problems we face is to make human beings even more beholden to widgets of our own creation, and over which we have complete control?

    Can a chair leap up and attack you?

    Money is thing, no different than a wine cork or a twist tie, only people BELIEVE it has more value (well, they used to anyway); money can do NOTHING to anyone on its own. It is simply a proxy for how human beings treat other human beings.

    Our problem, obviously and self-evidently, is selfishness, greed and a complete lack of concern for our fellow citizens.  Nothing more, nothing less.

    We treat each other like sh*t, we get sh*t in return.

    Can you smell that?

    Blaming everyone else, hurling invective, wishing for wizards and magic and engaging in idol worship (which all appeals to fiscal power are), well, we're in a pitiful, pitiful state of delusion and denial.

    The value of our money is pegged to a casino culture of lottery hopes and, as we have discovered, deep corruption. The value of our money should have its baseline as what is best for society as a whole. The rich don't need help, and we should stop considering what's best for them first. Just obvious stupid crap. But we're too dumb. Myself included.


    Money is, indeed (5.00 / 3) (#109)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 04:44:07 PM EST
    an "inanimate object," Dadler.  It's just a "marker."  It is not the "be-all-and-end-all."
    I always remember, too, what Warren Buffett said:    
    I've had it so good in this world, you know. The odds were fifty-to-one against me born in the United States in 1930. I won the lottery the day I emerged from the womb by being in the United States instead of in some other country where my chances would have been way different.

    Imagine there are two identical twins in the womb, both equally bright and energetic. And the genie says to them, "One of you is going to be born in the United States, and one of you is going to be born in Bangladesh. And if you wind up in Bangladesh, you will pay no taxes. What percentage of your income would you bid to be the one this is born in the United States?" It says something about the fact that society has something to do with your fate and not just your innate qualities. The people who say, "I did it all myself," and think of themselves as Horatio Alger - believe me, they'd bid more to be in the United States than in Bangladesh. That's the Ovarian Lottery.

    And he also said:  
    Wealth is just a bunch of claim checks on the activities of others in the future. You can use that wealth in any way that you want to. You can cash it in or give away. But the idea of passing wealth from generation to generation so that hundreds of your descendants can command the resources of other people simply because they came from the right womb flies in the face of a meritocratic society.


    Tax cuts or (none / 0) (#94)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 04:06:22 PM EST
    extension of rates for incomes under $250,000/$200,000 is not as misleading as references to, and characterizations of, the Cat Food Commission.  The Commission failed, having issued no report--other than a reporting of controversial ideas by the co-chairs, Erskine Bowles and Alan Simpson--and in Simpson's case,  a rant.

    As set up, support was needed from at least 14 members of the 18-membered panel to proceed for congressional consideration.  Indeed, even after revisions and a delay beyond the deadline, only eleven members registered support--some reluctantly.  And, the panel adjourned without taking an official vote.  Therefore, the premise that President Obama ignored the report of the Commission he appointed is untrue.


    There's hater elements... (none / 0) (#73)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 02:11:34 PM EST
    in every culture.  Europe especially seems to have a serious xenophobia problem.  An age old story I guess...economies go south, and everybody starts kicking the dog.

    I feel bad for her though...for track and field athletes the Olympics is the be all end all, to train so hard for 4 years and get tossed off the team over a tweet right before the games?  The censorship bothers me...if ya don't like what she said, ya fight it with speech, not censorship.    

    Granted, private entities can do whatever they hell they want, so I guess that includes Olympic commitees and what not.  But it's a special case of sorts, Olympic teams represent their entire countries, not just the committee that selects the team. I think it looks bad when supposed free societies do this kinda thing...it's a North Korea or Iran type move, not what you'd expect from the birthplace of democracy.  

    I see your points... (none / 0) (#78)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 02:40:16 PM EST
    and we agree on how to handle it...voice strong disagreement with the comments, but respect her right to an opinion and let her triple jump for her country.

    Kinda reminds me of the over-reaction suspension of Ozzie Guillen in Miami, and even the IOC response to Tommie Smith's & John Carlos' human rights salute at the '68 games.  

    the comments you are replying to (none / 0) (#106)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 04:39:28 PM EST
    were deleted. Commenters may not call anyone a racist here.

    Classical music factoid: one (none / 0) (#148)
    by oculus on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 09:21:21 PM EST
     of the musicians Participating in the Santa Fe Chamber Music Festival had a previous career w/the San Francisco Giants as the fifth starting pitcher.

    Are you there now, oculus? (none / 0) (#152)
    by christinep on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 11:34:37 PM EST
    We will be there in early August for "King Roger" & "The Pearl Fishers>" We usually hear at least one Chamber Music program...actually, like to listen to rehearsal in the Library's auditorium (usually Saturday morning.)  

    But, as for Santa Fe...for me, I enjoy whatever happens to be there at any given time.  Looking at the sky or just plain wandering, meandering is a favorite "activity" in the City Different. (And, eating too, of course.)


    Yes. I saw "King Roger" last (none / 0) (#154)
    by oculus on Fri Jul 27, 2012 at 12:41:54 AM EST
    night. Splendid. 2 chamber music programs today. May go to open rehearsal tomorrow. Two more operas to see:  Rossini's "Maometto II" and  Strauss' "Arabella."  I always forget how beautiful and fascinating the sky is.  

    International Folklore Museum (none / 0) (#168)
    by christinep on Fri Jul 27, 2012 at 12:05:55 PM EST
    If you have not visited the museums on the hill (& have some time to do so), the folklore museum always enchants...permanent as well as changing, intriguing exhibits.

    I could blab  even more than usual about Santa Fe (and visit winter, summer, & the fortunate in-between) ... But will try to hold my enthusiasm other than to correct my reference to "Library" above, where I meant "Auditorium" in the main state museum.  Also: Look forward to your reaction to Maometto.


    NYT reviewed "King Roger.". (none / 0) (#170)
    by oculus on Fri Jul 27, 2012 at 01:16:43 PM EST
    Classical music factoid: one (none / 0) (#149)
    by oculus on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 09:21:22 PM EST
     of the musicians Participating in the Santa Fe Chamber Music Festival had a previous career w/the San Francisco Giants as the fifth starting pitcher.