Woman Commits Suicide After Trashing by Nancy Grace

Guilt-Monger in Chief Nancy Grace can chalk up another suicide to her disgraceful antics. Toni Medrano, age 29, dubbed "The Vodka Mom" by Grace, set herself on fire in her mother's backyard and died Saturday, weeks after watching Grace demonize her, while donning her typical hyper-ventilating, nostril-flaring faux-persona, and ask her audience why Ms. Medrano wasn't charged with Murder One instead of manslaughter, for falling asleep on her infant while inebriated, suffocating the baby.

Ms. Medrano saw Nancy Grace's show. Grace said on the show she had attempted to contact Medrano at her home (I wonder how many times the producers called -- someone should subpoena her and her staff's land line and cell phone records). According to friends, after the show, she became despondent. [More...]

Maria Phillips, Medrano's younger sister, said Medrano was "shaking and couldn't take a breath" as she watched Grace's show. "She got depressed and said life wasn't worth living. She said she couldn't live with herself."

As to the show:

About a week after she was charged, flame-throwing CNN talk-show host Nancy Grace featured the case on her show. Grace held up a fifth of cheap vodka and said she was going to see how many glasses she could get out of the bottle.

She poured at least nine as the words "vodka mom" appeared on the screen.

Her guests that night were unfamiliar with the case (no surprise there), leaving Grace to rage without dissent:

She then spoke to a reporter from her show and two officials unfamiliar with the case as she theorized that Medrano had been sleeping on her child for hours. "There was a long period of time that baby's life could have been saved," Grace said.

She said the baby was purple and one guest theorized that was from a "pooling of blood" because he had been dead for so long. "Why no murder one charges?" Grace asked, referring to the charge for premeditated murder.

You can watch Disgraceful Grace's performance here.

Ms. Medrano's friend posted this letter to Nancy Grace:

thank's for demonising a person for an accidental death and causing another persons' death. I use to be a fan, but now all I see is another rating seeking soul-less monster.

Grace's viewers aren't much better than her. Where do people learn such hatred of others they've never met?

Why is it just Ms. Medrano -- the mother -- Grace has a problem with? She has no harsh words for the father, who came home and found his wife inebriated, who expressed his concern (to his inebriated wife) an accident like this might happen, and then went upstairs to bed . Why didn't he think to put the baby in a crib or his wife in a bed?

Medrano’s husband told police that his wife sleeps heavily after she drinks and that she had been drinking throughout the weekend. He said he also told his wife not to lie on the couch with the baby because she could fall asleep and suffocate him.

With Ms. Medrano's suicide, there are now two unnecessary deaths instead of one, double grief for the families involved, and two other children without a mother.

Nancy Grace may not be responsible for the woman's drinking problem, but it sure sounds like she capitalized on it and by playing judge, jury and executioner on TV, hastened her demise. Treatment for alcohol dependency is what Ms. Medrano needed, not a firing squad.

Will Grace lose a wink of sleep over the traumatization Ms. Medrano's other children will suffer, knowing their mother took her own life in such a horrific, violent way? Of course not. She'll think, "Well I didn't tell her to drink and suffocate her kid."

I have not watched a single episode of Dancing With the Stars since Grace's wooden-legged stomping, which followed a season by the equally untalented Bristol Palin, left me with a permanent acrid distaste for anything and everything connected to the show. I'll bet I'm not the only one.

There ought to be limits on who gets to be a national mouthpiece. When the only marginal talent a TV host has is that she can inflame rabid passions in ignorant viewers who think they are at the circus, and that the host is its ringmaster, I think its fair to say that networks, like Turner Broadcasting System, Inc (which owns Headline News Network)shares in the shame, if not blame, for tragedies like this.

The network isn't just an enabler of these suicides and tragedies. Its role is more like an accelerant in an arson fire, fueling the flames to rake in the advertising dollars. The more outrageous Grace behaves, the more ratings go up, the more advertising dollars the network can charge. Shame on all of them, from Turner to the shows' lowly producers who spend half their day robo-dialing the unfortunate souls their host has targeted that day for her evening pleasure.

R.I.P. Toni Medrano.

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    so sad (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Philly on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 06:45:23 AM EST
    I never understand the mindset of people that want to press criminal charges (let alone 1st degree murder) against parents that have lost their children in terrible accidents.  Even when negligence is a factor, the parent has already experienced the most horrifying and brutal punishment I can imagine.

    The alleged act was not an accident (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by nyjets on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 08:25:11 AM EST
    A person may argue whether this was murder or manslaughter, however, by getting drunk and allegely killing her baby, this was a potential criminal act. Not an accident.

    She did not deliberately kill her child (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 08:53:39 AM EST
    Nor did she deliberately make herself alcohol dependent.

    She did choose to drink (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by nyjets on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 09:16:15 AM EST
    She choosed to drink, get drunk, and sleep with her baby. And she chose not get help.
    THis is the same as someone killing someone while driving drunk. Both are criminal acts.

    Wrong (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 10:25:58 AM EST
    When you are chemically dependent you crave it, your body cannot do without it and you need medical supervision to detox or detoxing can kill you.  It is also dangerous to detox when caring for children, I don't think they have emotional control for awhile.  You just don't detox while babysitting the kids.

    Historically speaking Jeralyn has, and probably always will have, more empathy for defendants than I have or ever will have. But this woman is emblematic to me of how our social structure and society is failing on a horrendous level.  What does detox and treatment cost these days?  Last I had a dollar figure on it it was around $30,000.  Only the rich get help for very real addictions in our wonderful joy filled all possibilities America.

    Secondly, how much pain does someone have to be in to set themselves on fire?


    Historically speaking Jeralyn has (none / 0) (#35)
    by LeaNder on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 11:40:14 AM EST
    I think this will be my last comment for a while.

    Admittedly I wondered about Jeralyn, and I jumped to fast conclusions, I have to admit. When I looked up a bit of available matters on the net I was pleasantly surprised. I found myself agreeing with her more often than I expected on the most diverse topics.

    This is a rather long introduction to this:

    But this woman is emblematic to me of how our social structure and society is failing on a horrendous level.  What does detox and treatment cost these days?  Last I had a dollar figure on it it was around $30,000.  Only the rich get help for very real addictions in our wonderful joy filled all possibilities America.

    It's basically an economical issue, but the much more important issue is a "human issue".

    I watched some of these programs. Over here psychiatric clincs are filled to the brim with these kind of patients, which results in a trend to build huge complexes only for the treatment of  alcoholics. Alcohol is a mass phenomenon, and personally I find the AA concept ridiculous. Like any other program were you are dealing with a mass phenomenon, that may be a physiological matter as someone suggests above, although based on my own experience I doubt that's a significant factor, you find a specific pattern. I can also assure you that recidivism is enormously high from people that underwent these programs.

    If you have a huge amount of people to control, and in the case of an clinic dealing with alcoholics your main problem would be to make sure they don't get any alcohol. This is the primary concern, followed closely by a series of assumptions that may or may not fit the special person. The most easiest way to do it in a system were your employees have their rights, e.g. working only a specified amount of time each day, is to make it a rule that everybody of the patients controls everybody else's of his co-patetients, or pay attention that not only he but also others follow the rules.

    I watched the same pattern in a huge forensic prison which houses an art project, next to a high security building that can only be entered by helicopters. If you inform on others not following rules, you get a benefit, like e.g. spending times during the day outside, or e.g. being selected for a job as a secretary in the art project in which I stood for a while.

    I watched some friends in these alcoholic programs, thus believe me I know what I am talking about. After that I am absolutely not surprised about the enormously high percentages of recidivism in this field.

    The real problem, that we live in a only slightly different one-size-fits-all society than the systems we are shocked about, may well be the core problem, but that is not solved by building another huge complex able to take in a high percentage all the alcoholics of one region.


    AA is free. (none / 0) (#65)
    by jpe on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:48:20 PM EST
    AA comes after detox and treatment (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 08:38:35 PM EST
    AA is maintenance, not treatment.  AA alone has about a 1% success rate and no ability to detox.  All info I garnered as a probation officer.

    and it works (none / 0) (#92)
    by TeresaInPa on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 07:30:13 AM EST
    where most rehab programs do not.

    Oh Jesus (none / 0) (#101)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 04:10:31 PM EST
    Wow about a link to some evidence of that?

    Meant (none / 0) (#102)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 04:11:11 PM EST
    How about a link, because that is the biggest load of bullshit you've ever tried to sell around here.

    "She choosed to drink" (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by spectator on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 10:36:45 AM EST
     I don't think she chose to drink, you can't choose who you are or your blueprint, if you have the common alcohol gene and other factors your just unlucky, if she could have chose anything... she'd choose not to be a sloppy drunk and a billionaire with perfect kids in a perfect world... that goes for all the other people who struggle every day.

    Life is not as simple as choosing,opportunity(random environment)plays a large part, your either lucky or unlucky and everything in between.


    Possibly... (none / 0) (#24)
    by Thanin on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 09:56:24 AM EST
    But whether or not you think this mother was a bad person, isn't it at least as disgusting and vile that Grace exploits tragedies for ratings?

    Yes (none / 0) (#41)
    by nyjets on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 12:39:19 PM EST
    Yes you are 100 percent right. From what I have heard Grace is an exploiter and not a nice person to boot. (And a bad 'ally' for people who advocate for victim rights.)
    While I may not have a lot of sympathy for the woman who commited sucide what Grace did is wrong.
    (and from what I have read, I would actually disagree with a lot of Grace's views and position)

    if an alcoholic (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by TeresaInPa on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 04:32:35 PM EST
    drives drunk and kills your son in a car crash, is that person going to be charged with a crime?  Will you argue that the person is not guilty of anything because he didn't chose to be a drunk, just let him go because it was an accident?

    I think (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 06:15:00 PM EST
    a comparable situation would be someone who drives drunk and kills their own child.

    I have to side with nyjets, MT. (none / 0) (#70)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 09:33:38 PM EST
    I don't believe that what happened amounted to murder, but she certainly could have been charged with negligent homicide.

    There are grounds for charges (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 10:27:04 AM EST
    Not what I dispute.  How much do we need to punch such people in the face though and when do we all step up to the plate to create a more functional society.  My country is sick, half of my country thinks that those who are born less than or have difficulties should be beaten beyond recognition or fed to the lions while they all cheer. And worse still those individuals have failed to look in the mirror and notice that about half of them are such defective lion supper PEOPLE.

    I don't understand alcoholism, but it isn't a new addiction or social problem and American social structure has ceased to give a $hit about anyone but themselves or apply any kind of aid or knowledge that has been studied in detail for years and years.

    Grover has succeeded in drowning functional government in the bathtub, and as things deteriorate Americans are grabbing people and shoving them under the water now too....BEAUTIFUL


    Alcoholism is indeed an illness. (none / 0) (#86)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 01:29:49 PM EST
    It's been fairly prevalent on my father's side of the family for decades. My great-grandfather drowned in a drainage ditch in less than a foot of water back in 1948, having passed out face-first in it. And a much younger cousin of mine, who's now 32 years old, has been battling the bottle since he was a teenager -- and for the most part, he's been losing.

    I do understand where you're coming from, because for all the problems that Americans have incurred -- both socially and individually -- from their love affair with booze, we've never really come to grips with the fact that as a nation, we've repeatedly failed to develop any sort of comprehensive plan to deal with the issue of alcoholism as a disease. Rather, we very much prefer to confront its symptoms, i.e., enacting Prohibition, cracking down on DUIs, holding up alcoholics for ridicule and comedy, etc.

    Nancy Grace is just another way in which we've managed to avoid dealing with important issues. What she did in this case was vile and unforgivable.

    But frankly, people who suffer from chronic alcoholism -- such as my cousin -- have become pretty adept at avoiding the issue themselves. He's been in jail for nearly eight months, and afterward has to go to a haflway house and undergo treatment, because sometimes it takes incarceration to either compel them to get the help they need, or at the very least, keep them from potentially endangering others with their behavior.



    It's a disease, not an illness. (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Anne on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 03:33:57 PM EST
    I know the terms are often used interchangeably, but I do think there's a difference.

    In any event, I don't know that it's so much that we have to have some kind of comprehensive plan; there's something about "comprehensive" that screams one-size-fits-all, and if there's anything we should know about alcoholism - and probably addiction in general - is that while the only thing that works is abstinence, there's no way to determine which method of getting there will be the one that works.

    We also don't seem to appreciate that abstinence doesn't cure the addiction as much as it puts the individual in control of the disease, as opposed to the disease being in control of the person.  And while abstinence often halts the destructive behaviors that accompany active use, it also often forces to the surface whatever issues or other problems people were using alcohol to for.  A lot of people use it as a form of self-medication, but it never gets to the root of the problem for which they were medicating.  

    What we should be making sure of is that people who want help have ways to get it; someone who decides today that he or she wants to stop drinking or drugging doesn't need to be told that they can get into a program a month from now, or six months from now.  We need to be able to provide support systems that make it easier for people to get help and continue to manage their daily lives.  If I'm a single mother, I can't do a residential program to get sober and still take care of my children, and if I'm afraid they will be taken away from me, chances are I'm not going to seek help.  Eventually, things spiral out of control and terrible things happen.  So, there have to be other ways for people to get well.

    And we still haven't made as much headway in de-stigmatizing addiction, which is another reason people don't seek help.

    In any event, just because there are no simple answers to this complex problem, doesn't mean we shouldn't be working on them.  It doesn't help that there are still a lot of people who think it's all about willpower, or moral failing, nor does it help that people believe the government should not be involved in helping people do something they ought to be able to do themselves - you know, if they really, really want it.  

    Which is why, when budgets get cut, these kinds of programs are casualties.  Just another example of how people who say they value life continue to find ways to show that they don't.  Not really.


    So you are saying Vodka mom refused help? (none / 0) (#90)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 04:36:32 PM EST
    She refused treatment?

    I have a loved one (none / 0) (#93)
    by TeresaInPa on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 07:44:53 AM EST
    32, battling drugs and alcohol since he was 14.  Started with pot, became an alcoholic and ended up graduating all the way to Heroine. One argument I make against legalizing drugs is that sometimes, jail is the "bottom" a person needs to hit to start recovery.

    There are grounds for charges by militarytracy (none / 0) (#103)
    by latinoinCdn on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 02:55:13 AM EST
    I agree with you 100%. I always study the USA since I was 13 or 14 years old.  I always believed that you should know the two side of the story. Especially, if  you are going to critises other cultures. You should know their history, belief, custom and religions. I am not an expert but i know a few things. In the USA, I have noticed in recent years a renew escalating hate and disregard towards those more unfortunate in their society.  Of lately, I cannot name one moderate Republican in your political spectrum.  I never agree with Ronald Reagan --Bush senior or Junior--policies, especially in foreign policies, but now looking back, he looks like a very progressive person when you compared him with the new wave of hate and Intolerance coming from the ranks of the Republican Party, especially the Tea Party.  There are liberals that aren't angels themselves too.
    Reading the comments I see a common statement  that "she had a "choice.""  She is a criminal because SHE WAS A DRUNK AND SHE KIIL HER SON
    ; therfore, she got what she deserve. They even compare her case to those of a drinking and driving causing death cases. I AM A SURVIVOR OF A DRUNK DRIVER causing serious injuries.I can tell you that THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE.  It puzzles me, when I heard or read comments of hate they leave,and I ask myself where is the compassion this people show every time they are at Church. They pray and promised to God and Jesus to be good Christian by following his teaching and as soon as they leave they go to the internet and began their campaign of hatred.    I guess what they follow to the "t" is the Old Testament eye for eye, stone adulterers, drunks, drug addicts and anyone that is "NOT LIKE THEM" I apologises for my perfect English grammar.

    There was an accident in Colorado Springs (none / 0) (#6)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:13:04 AM EST
    That happened right before we moved.  An SUV flipped on I-25 with children in it.  The children were seat belted in, and the SUV caught on fire and they died in the fire.  The driver/mother of some of the children was able to get out though in time to live, but it took them forever to decide to not press charges against her.  They seemed intent to press charges for careless driving, and some of the local people began expressing outrage because there was no evidence and it seemed like they were deliberately trying to conjure up some and her own children were dead, had died in the accident.

    What Nancy Grace said (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:16:02 AM EST
    Was awful - not necessarily untruthful because it was irresponsible and negligent to drink a fifth of vodka and then try to care for a baby.  But the show aired on June 11, so to run the headline, "Woman Commits Suicide After Trashing by Nancy Grace" is taking cause and effect to a new place.

    Seems to me Medrano might have been more distraught about actually being charged with manslaughter than to what a cable TV host (with a small audience) says.

    A woman who can drink a 5th of Vodka (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:29:34 AM EST
    needs help though, that is chemical dependency on a scary level.  As Jeralyn pointed out her spouse seems very negligent in this too, perhaps more than his wife was. How can you deny that Nancy Grace requires fresh helpless meat?  She needs people who can't fight back for her brand of feeding to the lions.  And where was this woman ever going to go in her lifetime after Nancy Grace was done with her that wasn't going to be about the worst thing that ever happened in her life?

    Her other children have been denied their mother now too.  I know that their mother had problems, but she didn't have any place to heal to.  I suppose that is why AA is anonymous, you have to have a better place where you can go when you leave the horror.  Where is that place once Nancy Grace is done with you?


    As you pointed out (3.50 / 2) (#12)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 08:08:59 AM EST
    This woman had bigger problems than Nancy Grace. Yes, her spouse is responsible too. I feel sorry for Ms. Medrano - how horrible to know that you rolled over and smothered your child (all the while gettingup several times in the night to respond to your other children) - especially when you know that you could have prevented all this.  My heart goes out to her family - I don't know how anyone gets through this.

    But her children have been denied their mother - not because of Nancy Grace - but because their mother took her own life, and in such a horrifying way.  They get to live with her selfish and desperate act.

    And a dribbing down by Nancy Grace on one show a month ago?  Many people have survived her acerbic tongue and there are many places you can go to.


    I am going to be blasted for this (none / 0) (#15)
    by TeresaInPa on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 08:29:50 AM EST
    but the first thing I thought was that this woman's family was looking for deep pockets so they could sue.
    I am not saying NG should not take responsibility for her part.  However I think her part is very small. An on air apology should suffice.  But of course she can not do that since it will hurt her case in civil court.
    After all we are talking about a woman who could drink a 5th of Vodka and live. She had terrible issues before Nancy's show.

    "Apology" and ... (none / 0) (#50)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 02:10:13 PM EST
    ... "Nancy Grace" go together like oil and water. It's an oxymoron.

    Seems like being charged with (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by Anne on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 08:09:09 AM EST
    manslaughter would be less devastating or reason for being distraught than knowing you were responsible for your baby's death.

    I have no idea why Medrano even watched Nancy Grace - but then, I don't have any idea why anyone watches that show.

    Sadly, this woman's suicide is bringing more attention to Nancy Grace, who seems to be someone who doesn't care whether the attention she gets is good or bad as long as it doesn't stop.

    And, as much as it is apparent that Jeralyn detests Grace, all this post does is feed into Grace's need for attention, and guarantee that more people will look into the show to see what all the fuss is about.

    Medrano didn't need anyone - much less Nancy Grace - to pile on to point out what a terrible thing she did; what she needed was help that she didn't get.

    What Nancy Grace needs is for her audience, along with her sponsors, to go away; once that happens, Grace is history, she has less chance to destroy people's lives and we need never hear about her again.


    I Would Add... (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 02:22:49 PM EST
    ...if her online persona is actually who she is, she will probably put this one in the win column.  She thought the lady was a murderer and she believes in the 'eye for an eye' justice, not a real big leap to think NG is A-OK with the outcome.

    But as I mentioned above, why did the woman watch the show.  She was fan, she knew what it was about and they were calling.  I can't get past that part.

    The woman was in major depression before, she had to be.  First she's an alcoholic, so she's drinking to forget something.  Then she accidentally kills one of her kids because of the drinking.  And lastly she was looking at certain jail time, which would also means forced dedox.  That is the definition of hitting rock bottom IMO.  

    She had to be close to the edge, and then to willingly watch a show you have to know is going rip you apart.  Either she wasn't in her right mind, or she knew that show would push into what she already wanted to do.


    What Nancy grace (by jbindc..) and you said (none / 0) (#104)
    by latinoinCdn on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 03:13:32 AM EST
    It is easy for you to be judge and executer from the confort of your seat in front of your computer. Have you ever heard about guilt, Depression,Post Traumatic Stress Disorder,and many others.  I hope you are not a Christian otherwise Jesus will be rolling over in his grave in shame over your Comments.

    The mother has received a great deal of (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:43:13 AM EST
    of attention in the media irrespective of television and/or Nancy Grace. In my opinion this diary does not enhance the reputation of this blog.

    I had not heard of her until now (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:58:22 AM EST
    I don't watch Headline News though.

    Nancy Grace shows that (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 09:01:41 AM EST
    Father Coughlin-ism still lives on, and here duped listeners buy her snake oil. I mean her personal venom.

    Grace has played the victim card and the blame card for so long... I would think that people would get tired of her rants. It's worse than shock-jock  radio. He's more rude to her guests-- maybe targets is more appropriate-- than Bill O'Reilly, and possibly more condescending than Sean Hannity or Rachel Maddow.

    I would think (none / 0) (#21)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 09:20:53 AM EST
    Since she's been a victim of a brutal crime, that it's obvious why she became a prosecutor and why she advocates strongly for victims on her show.

    Except that, according to (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 10:50:53 AM EST
    the New York Observer, much of how she characterized the death of her fiance and her reactions, the circumstances surrounding the case, was ficticious.

    Grace has created her image as a police-and-prosecutors-are-never-wrong, and all-defendants-are-guilty, irrespective of evidence, host to a sensationalist national TV show.  I wish she would fade back into the relative obscurity, unknown outside of Atlanta, she (and the rest of the nation)enjoyed before she was picked to be an on-camera attack dog, defender of accusation meaning crime, and missing-white-woman/girl obsessor.  


    Uh, let's see (none / 0) (#32)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 11:19:51 AM EST
    Her fiance was still murdered. Whether he was 25 or 23, whether it was a co-worker or random - who cares? It would still scar you and if she decided to fight for victims' rights because of that  - so what?

    You can take issue with her tactics for TV, and while you think "Grace has created her image as a police-and-prosecutors-are-never-wrong, and all-defendants-are-guilty", the same can be said for all the talking head defense attorneys who never met a defendant who wasn't being framed or had a sob story to tell to excuse their behavior.  It's for ratings and not indicative of what really goes on every day in the courtrooms across the country.

    Nancy Grace has around a million viewers on both her shows combined.  Don't like her?  Don't watch her.

    But to opine in a headline that she is responsible for a woman's suicide is irresponsible.


    Victim's advocate my arse... (5.00 / 4) (#34)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 11:34:26 AM EST
    she's a vengeance advocate, an eye for an eye advocate, a lock 'em up and throw away the key advocate.

    If she really cared about victims of violent crimes, there are lots of noble ways to help them that don't drag all of society into the gutter...her tv show is not among them.


    not fair (none / 0) (#56)
    by TeresaInPa on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 04:16:49 PM EST
    you can not say that she doesn't really care about victims because you don't like the way she advocates for them.  I am not fond of her tactics either, but I would never say she doesn't really care.  You don't know that.

    No, we don't (none / 0) (#71)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 09:42:00 PM EST
    But then, we didn't learn until the end of the movie that Baby Jane Hudson actually cared about her sister, too.

    You don't care about victims... (none / 0) (#83)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 08:03:51 AM EST
    by crying for society to create more victims...I'm sorry.

    you aren't a mind reader (none / 0) (#94)
    by TeresaInPa on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 07:52:05 AM EST
    is all I am saying.  Let's keep clear about what we know about people and what we do not.  

    No need to read minds... (none / 0) (#96)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 08:41:53 AM EST
    actions speak louder than words and thoughts and intentions.

    If she cares about victims, she's doing it wrong...that's fair enough I think.


    So suddenly you're not concerned (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by sj on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 01:20:54 PM EST
    when someone plays fast and loose with the facts?  I'm surprised that you chose Nancy Grace to be the beneficiary of your newly relaxed standards for precision.

    Actually (none / 0) (#99)
    by jbindc on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 04:29:06 PM EST
    I see her for what she is - someone on the tubes trying to stir controversy for ratings.  

    Playing fast and loose with the facts?  Try sitting in a courtroom sometime and listening to the attorneys - of both sides.


    I am confused....jbindc (none / 0) (#105)
    by latinoinCdn on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 03:24:20 AM EST
    do you agree with this women Nancy Grace and you think that this poor mother is at fault.  And what nanc said doesnot affect anyone at all?

    Yes, her fiance was murdered -- ... (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 01:40:38 PM EST
    ... 33 years ago.

    Lots of us have suffered tragedy in our lives, including losing a family member and loved one to a time and place of someone else's choosing. Speaking for myself only, I'd really like to believe that most of us don't remain forever emotionally stunted as a result, and have the personal fortitude and capacity to pull ourselves together and move on with our lives.

    So, as far as I'm concerned, the statute of limitations for using that particular misfortune of hers as an excuse for her present behavior and attitude ran out a long time ago.

    Nancy Grace is no victim's advocate who offers enlightenment on an incident or issue. She's nothing but a petty and mean-spirited bully who's long since embarked on a perpetual ego trip, courtesy of HLN network.



    Aren't you someone who subscribes to (4.33 / 6) (#38)
    by Anne on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 12:15:03 PM EST
    the belief that actions have consequences, and words mean something?  What do Grace's actions and tactics and words mean to this whole equation?

    Is Nancy Grace fully responsible for the suicide?  I wouldn't think so.  But I don't see how she isn't considered to have contributed to this woman's decision.

    You can argue about how much blame Grace should bear, but I don't think you will convince most people that she is blameless.

    And it's one thing to be an advocate - for either side - but it's quite another to be, as Grace seems to be from what I have seen, hell-bent on vengeance and a relentless character assassin.  She does not, as Jeralyn does, confine herself to the issues and matters directly before the courts, but ranges as far afield as she needs to in order to build a public case for guilt.

    If actions really do have consequences, and words really do matter, then Nancy Grace needs to be accountable for her contribution to this tragedy.

    Sadly, she will probably get a bonus for the bump in the ratings this case will deliver to Headline News; and therein lies the real tale.


    This wasn't your song yesterday. What happened? (none / 0) (#60)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 05:04:35 PM EST
    She does not, as Jeralyn does, confine herself to the issues and matters directly before the courts, but ranges as far afield as she needs to in order to build a public case for guilt.

    Oh, yay, another cryptic comment from (none / 0) (#63)
    by Anne on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:21:37 PM EST

    I have no idea about any songs I was singing yesterday - perhaps you were referring to my opinion that Jeralyn took a comment of mine out of context?

    I don't know - maybe you had something else in mind; with you, it's hard to tell, since your thing seems to be tossing off comments that never get explained.  Are they serious, are they snark?  Sometimes we're supposed to know they're funny, sometimes we're supposed to know they're something else.

    Honestly, it gets a wee bit tiresome.


    At least they don't take (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 08:28:06 PM EST
     long to read.  

    the Chinese used to say (3.00 / 2) (#37)
    by jondee on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 12:14:11 PM EST
    when you go seeking vengence, you should dig two graves.

    All Grace does is tease and stir up the resevoir of anger, pain, and frustration all-too-many in this country are aleady caught up in.

    "Victims rights" is as misleading as "pro-life", "support the troops", and alot of other demogogic hooey.

    Are they absolutely sure Grace's fiance didn't kill himself in self defense?


    Touché. (none / 0) (#72)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 09:43:42 PM EST

    The Larger Point is Obvious... (none / 0) (#43)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 01:09:16 PM EST
    ...she extends the truth to manipulate people into believing her point of view.  She lied about a lot of details in her own experience so people will believe she in it for more than ratings and vengeance.  The truth wouldn't work nearly as well and she damn well knows it.

    To me if she can't find the moral integrity to get the facts right in her own experiences, there is no way in hell she's going to get them right for the players who are tied to her income.

    But unlike most of the commenters here, I don't think she is the problem, it's society and their never ending love of these kind of antics.  Jesus, how many political commentators use the same half-truths and rage ?  She didn't create the demand, just exploited it.  Carnival barkers for people who want so bad to believe there is a 3 headed dragon behind the curtain.  Or rather, they already believe that and need some validation that there preposterous beliefs are right and moral, when they are anything but.  

    They sell hate to people who collect it.

    A couple of notes, I am positive she is going to get slapped with a huge lawsuit, she had better hope her facts are accurate, or they will pay.  And let's be honest her, she may have had a part in the suicide, but she isn't responsible.  Let's not forget, the lady accidentally killed her kid because of drinking.  That had to contribute to her suicide and not to be a d1ck, but she willingly watched the show knowing what was coming.  They were fans, the show was calling, who in their right mind would do that, or even let someone you know watch the show.

    Lastly, I find it mildly amusing that the family used to watch the show.  They were down with her vicious attacks until they were the ones in the cross-hairs.  It's a damn shame this happened, but if it's going to happen, at least it happened to some of her former fans.  Who now realize just how destructive and how far the truth is bent and twisted all in the name of ratings.


    How many? (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by NYShooter on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 04:40:32 PM EST
    ".....how many political commentators use the same half-truths and rage?"

    Glenn Beck,
       Michael Savage,
          Mort Downey jr,
             Bill O'Reilly,
                Charlie Sheen,
                   Ann Coulter,
                      Ted Nugent,
                         Howard Stern
                            Bill Cunningham
    + all those names checked off in JimakaPPJ's TV Guide

    Fair & Unbalanced, "We deceive, You decide"



    What, Rush on Vaca ? (none / 0) (#97)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 11:45:41 AM EST
    You forgot (none / 0) (#98)
    by jbindc on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 04:27:25 PM EST
    Lawrence O'Donnell
      Rachel Maddow
        Keith Olbermann
          Bill Maher

    + all those names checked off on every good "liberal's: watchlist?  



    I didn't forget (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 08:28:02 PM EST
    but, I'm not a graduate of the Glenn Beck School of "Two Sides to Every Story"

    Agreed. (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 09:50:26 PM EST
    There are lots of people who sure do love to live and judge vicariously, only to resent it tremendously when the subject so happens to be themselves and others do the same.

    Disgrace. (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by lentinel on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 10:26:01 AM EST
    The network isn't just an enabler of these suicides and tragedies. Its role is more like an accelerant in an arson fire, fueling the flames to rake in the advertising dollars.

    I have felt that way about CNN ever since they took it upon themselves to instill panic into an already traumatized American people during the run-up to the war in Iraq.

    I can't watch it anymore.

    And how can Nancy Grace, so devoid of compassion, supposedly a lawyer, be so loose with a term like "murder one"? Does she really think that the death of the infant was a result of a "killing that is both willful and premeditated, meaning that it was committed after planning or 'lying in wait' for the victim"?

    Every time you think that TV "news" has reached a new low, they confound you by going even lower.

    Not to mention... (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 11:16:42 AM EST
    the total abscence of mens rea, which at least used to be a necessary element of a crime.

    Ya know, so we don't go caging people for accidents, no matter how tragic.

    Not only is she a wicked witch, she's laughably ignorant...all that hate will f*ck with one's capability to reason...blind with rage.


    "mens rea?" Lookachew Mr. smartypants. (5.00 / 4) (#36)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 12:04:00 PM EST
    Score one for the public library... (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 12:27:42 PM EST
    over law school...Nancy's parents should demand a refund! ;)

    That's what the Georgia Supreme Court ... (none / 0) (#47)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 01:54:35 PM EST
    lentinel: "And how can Nancy Grace, so devoid of compassion, supposedly a lawyer, be so loose with a term like 'murder one'?"

    ... asked, i.e., be so loose with the law, when they overturned two of her convictions in 1994 and 1997, respectively. In the latter case, the justices formally admonished her, noting in their opinion that "the conduct of the prosecuting attorney in this case demonstrated her disregard of the notions of due process and fairness, and was inexcusable."

    Our Miss Nancy has also since been admonished by the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in 2005 for a 1990 case in which she knowingly used false testimony in a triple murder trial, although in that case they did uphold the defendant's conviction. Nevertheless, the Court accused her of ethical misconduct and said that she "failed to fulfill her responsibilities" as a member of the bar.


    Nancy should look up 'Grace' in the dictionary (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Dadler on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 11:21:38 AM EST
    And then she should try to practice it.

    Not the first time (5.00 / 6) (#40)
    by bob somerby on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 12:36:39 PM EST
    This isn't the first time for Grace. During the Elizabeth Smart disappearance, Grace got it into her head that a petty criminal named Richard Ricci must be the guilty party.

    Ricci had been working in the Smarts' home. If memory serves, he even committed a petty theft while in the home. That said, he had nothing to do with Smart's disappearance, except in Grace's mind.

    Grace created such a cable clatter that Ricci got arrested on some old warrant. He had some sort of medical condition and died while he was in prison.

    Adding insult to injury, Grace refused to admit that she had tried and convicted Ricci for a crime he plainly didn't commit. After Elizabeth Smart was found and saved, Mark Geragos confronted Grace on this point (on Larry King Live). Grace denied everything, falsely.

    I've gained one insight from watching Grace and her fellow former prosecutors who want to lock-em-all-up. I understand why our prisons seem to hold so many innocent people.

    Thank, Bob (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by oldmancoyote22 on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 12:59:34 PM EST
    I hope you spend some time on this on your blog. The fact that Nancy Grace can thrive in our current media environment is a symptom of something worth exploring, no?  

    It's one thing for the O'Reilys, Hannitys, and Maddows to carve out a niche exploiting our tribal tendencies, but Nancy Grace's presence is on another level in my opinion.  


    For what it's worth (none / 0) (#46)
    by bob somerby on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 01:54:22 PM EST
    I posted in detail on 5/2/03. It was March 12, 2003 when Geragos confronted Grace. King had already asked if she regretted her treatment of Ricci, who plainly turned out to be uninvolved. Geragos finally said this:

    "Nancy, I have reserved any kind of comments tonight because you have been, all along in this story, one of the worst perpetrators of convicting people. And you've done it on this show in this specific case. I don't even remember the name of the guy before Ricci that they had focused on, and you had convicted him as well."

    Everyone is guilty! Geragos went on at some length, with King occasionally chiming in. Grace denied all.

    Gloriously, Elizabeth Smart was found and returned to her home and her parents. Ricci of course remains dead.

    This happened more than nine years ago. It seems that little has changed.


    Thanks again (none / 0) (#74)
    by oldmancoyote22 on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 09:53:46 PM EST
    I'll look up that post from your incomparable archives.  :-)

    Her destruction of Gary Condit in the (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:40:50 PM EST
    Chandra Levy case was quite the tour de force of reputation assassination psuedo-journalism. Grace, based on no real evidence, had Condit, a congressman at the time, run out of town on the figurative rail.

    His life was devastated. And Grace did not care. She had no qualms about destroying this man for ratings or airtime or whatever it is that drives her to verbally assault people with such viciousness.

    Condit had nothing to do with Chandra Levy's murder. Ingmar Guandique was convicted of her murder in Nov. 2010.

    Even then, Nancy Grace, lacking the most basic human decency, did not apologize to Condit or acknowledge that she was wrong or well, anything. Crickets from Grace.


    That was terrible, too. (none / 0) (#69)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 09:31:07 PM EST
    Although it must also be noted that the now-former Congressman Condit certainly didn't do himself any favors, hemming and hawing like he did regarding his relationship with Ms. Levy, by which he managed to inadvertantly turn the spotlight on himself with disastrous political consequences.

    Condit's "hemming and hawing" (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 11:16:57 PM EST
    did not excuse the actions of Nancy Grace. She was relentless, unmerciful.

    She was wrong, and she did not care.


    Agreed. (none / 0) (#87)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 01:44:04 PM EST
    She clearly jumped the gun and made erroneous assumptions with regards to Gary Condit, as I daresay many in the media also did. They behaved like a pack of hyenas with a cornered and wounded animal.

    I just pointed out that it was Condit's own poor judgment that first placed him in the media crosshairs, because he was so worried about being exposed for an extramarital sexual dalliance that his initial attempt to conceal it temporarily made him a person of interest in the case. That's all.


    I remember (none / 0) (#95)
    by TeresaInPa on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 08:13:26 AM EST
    much of the 24/7 media did the same.

    I read (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 02:56:26 PM EST
    the story that was linked. The whole situation is way beyond sad for everyone concerned.

    Rant!! (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by medic10 on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 11:32:50 PM EST
    I have seen many a parent sleep with their child and kill them, over the last 16 years of my medical career. Mothers are TOLD in the hospital not to sleep with your child because this can occur. Why would a parent get so drunk that they cannot stay awake to take care of their child?? She should have been charged with first degree murder IMO. But none of that matters now. At least she had guilt and shame and knew what she did was wrong. I feel bad that she killed herself in the manner she did, but If I had killed my child.....I wouldnt be able to live with myself either.
    Stop feeling sorry for these people who murder their children in this manner!!!! If you know that feeding your child a thumbtak will probably hurt him if it goes down the wrong way....do you feed it to them anyway?   If you KNOW something is BAD for your child.....and you do it anyway. You must face the consequences.
    I'm sorry, but Nancy Grace is not the Villian here. Yes she drives us all batty at times, but she did not cause this woman to committ suicide. The idea was already there.
    SOrry to vent like this but after having to take care of these dead kids and their idiot parents for so many years and watch them get off scott free and have 4 or 5 more kids...I've just had it.

    God how awful (none / 0) (#1)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 06:42:24 AM EST

    Stretching cause and effect (none / 0) (#3)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 06:49:09 AM EST

    Nancy Grace is on my list of the most despicable (none / 0) (#10)
    by Angel on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:55:45 AM EST
    people of all time.

    Nancy Grace... (none / 0) (#16)
    by heidelja on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 08:43:06 AM EST
    ...is a disgusting lady who by being a lawyer sets the example for all lawyers!

    Her promotional ads on HLN show her sitting there telling viewers she wants to get to the truth of the story in a voice that is almost painful in its wimpering "trustful" tone for what is good. Of course, few of her vengeful viewers and mob justice followers never recall the first suicide attributed to her grandstanding reporting over the death of a child. Hopefully, she is now shown the door, HLN cleans up its act and she never recovers from this second suicide. Once and for all setting the correct example for bad "news" analysis.

    You're assuming that ... (none / 0) (#75)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 09:53:49 PM EST
    ... what Nancy Grace does constitutes "analysis."

    She's another show biz (none / 0) (#76)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 10:01:45 PM EST
    hack.  I think of her as being in the spirit of Judge Judy.

    Nancy Grace (none / 0) (#22)
    by barry60x on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 09:22:14 AM EST
    This woman (is she really?) is such a fraud.  She is, however, an excellent example of the prosecutorial mindset for all to see.  In Nancy's world everyone is guilty of something.  

    Projecting a little?

    According to wiki, Ms. Grace was (none / 0) (#23)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 09:43:46 AM EST
    a prosecutor for 10 yrs.  How long ago was that?  

    "Where do people learn such hatred" ? (none / 0) (#29)
    by Andreas on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 11:04:12 AM EST
    Jeralyn asked:

    Where do people learn such hatred of others they've never met?

    That is not very difficult. The US is led by two far right-wing political parties and a government who support the systematic bombing of countless innocent people (including childremn) by drones ordered by the President. People like Barack Obama and George Walker Bush are far worse and more criminal than Nancy Grace herself can be - but there are many similarities in their sociopathic treatment of mankind.

    Quite obviously, it's ... (none / 0) (#49)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 02:07:04 PM EST
    ... not that diffcult to hate people you've never met, as you just proved with your non sequitur sideswipe of the current and former presidents. Take it somewhere else, to a more appropriate thread.

    I really thought (none / 0) (#30)
    by spectator on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 11:08:12 AM EST
    she'd take a bit more heat for that last Amanda Knox comment not long ago.

    So many "over the top" comments... now this...,lolol....she seems to have some guilt impregnable bubble around her, i hope this event will slap her a little harder, will she ever tone it down?

    She's been formally admonished ... (none / 0) (#48)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 02:01:36 PM EST
    ... twice for her unethical behavior by the Georgia Supreme Court and once by the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, all of which proved to be nothing more than water off a duck's behind to her. I'll leave it to you to decide whether she can ever "tone it down."

    Hogwash (none / 0) (#52)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 02:44:20 PM EST
    No offense to Talk Left, but putting a suicide on her, that's too much.  And for Jeralyn who is always preaching innocent until proven guilty, it is in really bad taste, and hypocritical, to make those kinds of statements about her guilt.  

    If she is truly guilty, like Dharun Ravi, then there should be an investigation and charges should be brought.  If memory serves me right, this website defended Ravi and the charges against him.  But now it's promoting them, without any investigation or process, that Nancy Grace is responsible for someone's death.

    Hogwash, and that rant, you know, it's damn near visceral enough one could almost mistake it for the garbage NG puts on every night.  Just because you are on the right side of the argument doesn't mean you should use the wrong side's cheap  tactics like unsubstantiated accusations and pure visceral language to evoke some sort of response.

    If you truly believe NG is responsible for someone's death as you wrote, then you should be promoting an investigation and charging her.  If not, stop using language that indicates she is guilty in someone's death.

    This is on now way an defense of NG.

    I didn't say Nancy Grace was (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 03:35:53 PM EST
    "guilty" of a crime.

    Nancy Grace may not be responsible for the woman's drinking problem, but it sure sounds like she capitalized on it and by playing judge, jury and executioner on TV, hastened her demise. Treatment for alcohol dependency is what Ms. Medrano needed, not a firing squad.

    The other mother who committed suicide (none / 0) (#54)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 03:33:32 PM EST
    after a trashing by Grace was Melissa Duckett.

    Grace (none / 0) (#61)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 06:14:53 PM EST
    Practiced here in Atlanta and is very well known professionally among friends of mine. I am not a litigator so can't comment on her skill personally. But . . .

    They don't say good things.

    What a coincidence! Neither do ... (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 09:26:38 PM EST
    ... the Georgia Supreme Court and the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

    I don't watch Nancy Grace. (none / 0) (#77)
    by desertswine on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 10:16:43 PM EST
    I find her repugnant and I don't like her.

    This isn't the first time (none / 0) (#78)
    by FroggieLeggs on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 10:53:20 PM EST
    This would not be the first time NG is accused of causing a mother to kill herself. She was also sued by the family of Melinda Duckett to which NG settled and had to place $200,000 into a trust dedicated to finding Trenton Duckett. If Trenton isn't found by the time he would be 13, the money gets transferred to NCMEC.

    Nancy (none / 0) (#80)
    by kmblue on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 12:46:52 AM EST
    hangs people in public without benefit of a trial
    (or even facts) and gets well paid for doing it.
    She'll never be cancelled, her ratings are too high.

    No name-calling please (none / 0) (#81)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 03:50:24 AM EST
    Comment just deleted calling her a nasty word. Name-calling isn't allowed here.

    I think that was probably mine (none / 0) (#88)
    by Jello333 on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 02:07:58 PM EST
    I knew we weren't to call each other names (and I never would), but I wasn't clear on the policy toward "public figures". Now I know. Sorry about that. But as far as Nancy Grace goes, I guess that means I'll just have to live by the old adage: If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. ;)