Romney Lies About Medicare/Medicaid Change Of Address Form

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2012
Posted on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 10:45:44 AM EST
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The brouhaha about what Mitt Romney said about Wawa touch screens overshadowed a bigger point, as explained by Joan McCarter, Medicare requires more paperwork to avoid fraud. But it also revealed that, shocking I know, Mitt Romney is a liar. Mediate explains:

[T]he mainstream media are so accustomed to being worked over by right-wing cries of “bias” that they leapt to condemn MSNBC’s completely reasonable editing of the clip, even as they ignored the glaring lie Romney told in the longer clip. As it turns out, MSNBC did him a favor by omitting his stupid comparison, but they won’t get much thanks for it. [...]

Romney’s anecdote about the optometrist and the 33-page change of address form:[?][...] He only missed it by 31 pages. That’s right, the form that’s so very inferior to the sandwich computers at “Wawa’s” is two pages long, four if you include the instructions. That optometrist is either delusional, or a delusion of Romney’s. Either way, it’s inexcusable for journalists to let this go,

We'll see what happens today. Probably nothing.

Speaking for me only

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Romney Lies About Medicare/Medicaid Change Of Address Form | 60 comments (60 topical)

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Maybe he was referring to one of these (5.00 / 1) (#12)
by Payaso on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 12:20:09 PM EST

CMS 855I - 27 pages in length:

Physicians and non-physician practitioners who are enrolled in the Medicare program, but have not submitted the CMS 855I since 2003, are required to submit a Medicare enrollment application (i.e., Internet-based PECOS or the CMS 855I) as an initial application when reporting a change for the first time.

CMS 855B - 49 pages in length

Clinics and group practices who are enrolled in the Medicare program, but have not submitted the CMS 855B since 2003, are required to submit a Medicare enrollment application (i.e., Internet-based PECOS or the CMS 855B) as an initial application when reporting a change for the first time.

Looks like Payaso (none / 0) (#15)
by lousy1 on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 02:00:19 PM EST

just found one. Where do those lies go?


Found what? (none / 0) (#23)
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 03:26:57 PM EST

Not change of address forms.


Wherever you post them, ... (none / 0) (#26)
by Yman on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 05:44:36 PM EST

... considering those aren't change of address forms.


They go viral, where they magically (none / 0) (#27)
by Anne on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 06:03:46 PM EST

become truth to people who are only too willing to believe them.

And yes, I'm looking at you.


: Thanks for the look! (none / 0) (#33)
by lousy1 on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 09:01:31 PM EST

but isn't it hard to see through such highly tinted lenses?
I think I a trying to put to correct a 'wrong perception' by adding a few facts.

It appears that the claim that (none / 0) (#32)
by lousy1 on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 08:51:16 PM EST

Romney lied is disingenuous.

Atlantic Botches it

Explains it succinctly.

It should be clear, especially to someone who was there listening, that Romney was not talking about a simple US Post Office change of address form. He's talking about changing an address on file with the federal government for purposes of issuing payments. Based on the description Romney gives ("services he provides for the poor and seniors") this is probably a Medicare form. In fact, it might even be this form, CMS 855I.

"Might even be" ... heh (none / 0) (#36)
by Yman on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 09:30:04 PM EST

Romney didn't say whether he was talking about Medicare or Medicaid, but either way, he's wrong. He was talking about a program for "the poor and seniors", which sounds like Medicaid, given that Medicare doesn't cover "the poor". Medicaid uses a 2-page form (4 pages including instructions) for address changes.

Medicare, OTOH, doesn't have a change-of-address form. They do have an online system where providers can change their information, but for providers who cannot or are unable to use the online system, providers must complete an enrollment packet. Of course, this form (the one Breitbart is pointing to) is much more than a change-of-address form. It is a contract, with much of its 25 pages consisting of warning about Medicare fraud, something I would think anyone would want included in a provider contract.


The relevant question is (none / 0) (#43)
by lousy1 on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 11:11:50 PM EST

was the practitioner required to fill out a 30 page form?

Presenting alternative forms that you postulate are sufficient is not respondent,


Heh (5.00 / 1) (#48)
by Yman on Wed Jun 20, 2012 at 07:01:43 AM EST

And the form that you are presenting as overly sufficient is respondent, despite the fact that it's not a change of address form as you claimed, nor is it 33 pages as Romney stated, nor is it a Medicaid form (i.e. "the poor")? You did say the dentists "The dentist recounting is quite specific" (optometrist, actually). So find a form from some government program that includes address information, is withing a few pages of 33 in length and we'll say it "appears" he was talking about that one?

Heh.


It seems that (none / 0) (#55)
by lousy1 on Wed Jun 20, 2012 at 10:36:43 AM EST

eveyone is just picking a form. This one is sifficiently close to illustrate the comparison he was making. The post office form is not. That is the misrepresentation


"Sufficiently close" - heh (none / 0) (#57)
by Yman on Wed Jun 20, 2012 at 09:36:12 PM EST

Suddenly, the "quite specific" accounting from the optometrist is "sufficiently close" because it's closer to 33 than 4, and despite the fact that it has nothing to do with treating "the poor" - as Mitt relayed the story.

Close enough for private industry?

The title of this thread is (none / 0) (#58)
by lousy1 on Wed Jun 20, 2012 at 11:16:53 PM EST

Romney lied. Prove it.

Every neutral observer I have encountered (including Lannie Davis) uses the facts presented and concludes that NBC lied not Romney,

Why is it so hard to acknowledge the obvious?


: Not my title (none / 0) (#60)
by Yman on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 01:58:47 PM EST

At the very least, Romney's story was completely inaccurate, ...
... as are your attempts to defend it.

It appears there are multiple forms (none / 0) (#19)
by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 02:56:50 PM EST

It appears there are multiple forms for change of address depending on your status. One wonders if there are penalties or delays for using the easy two pager when the longer 27 or 49 pager is required.

How many pages are required to point a prospective address changer to the correct form.

Those aren't change of address forms (none / 0) (#22)
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 03:26:36 PM EST

Those are forms (none / 0) (#47)
by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Wed Jun 20, 2012 at 06:52:23 AM EST

Those are forms that are required to use when changing address for some. In ordinary speaking, to ordinary people the form you are required to use when reporting a change of address is called a "change of address form."

To say that that is a lie is an embarrassment.

Noooo (none / 0) (#49)
by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jun 20, 2012 at 07:35:09 AM EST

They are not.


Oh, BTD...it has been heavy slogging (5.00 / 2) (#50)
by Anne on Wed Jun 20, 2012 at 08:26:01 AM EST

here through the swamp of right-wing talking points...


: The Zimmermin swarm. (5.00 / 3) (#52)
by oculus on Wed Jun 20, 2012 at 08:28:52 AM EST

Cannot wait for that to finish.

Lets get the facts straight. (5.00 / 1) (#54)
by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Wed Jun 20, 2012 at 08:39:02 AM EST

True or false?

The guy wanted to report a change of address and was required to use a 30 page or so form to do so.

False (none / 0) (#56)
by Yman on Wed Jun 20, 2012 at 09:30:05 PM EST

Unless you have some actual evidence to the contrary.


You called Romney a liar (none / 0) (#59)
by lousy1 on Wed Jun 20, 2012 at 11:18:02 PM EST

why does he have to prove anything?


: Actually, I didn't ... (none / 0) (#61)
by Yman on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 02:01:48 PM EST

.... call Romney a liar.
But you either have a serious reading comprehension issue, or you are one.

Not a change of address (none / 0) (#21)
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 03:22:03 PM EST

Nope it a change (none / 0) (#34)
by lousy1 on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 09:20:58 PM EST

of address form required by medicare. What would lead you to suspect it was a simple Post office form. The dentist recounting is quite specific.


Did you even look at the form? (none / 0) (#37)
by Yman on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 09:37:43 PM EST

Seriously.

There's a link to the form in the article you cited from Breitbart. It is not a "change of address" form. Medicare uses an online system for its provider information. The form you are talking about is a Medicare Enrollment Application. It's a contract (not an address change form) that Medicare providers must read and complete in order to participate in the program. It requires much more information than a provider's address (as it should) and it details numerous warnings against Medicare fraud (as it also should).


Yes (none / 0) (#42)
by lousy1 on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 11:06:50 PM EST

And it also appears that the government requires physicians, who have not filled out updated form recently, to submit this form merely to change billing address.

Romney narrative vindicated?

: "It appears" .... heh (none / 0) (#51)
by Yman on Wed Jun 20, 2012 at 08:27:48 AM EST

Read as, "I don't really know, ... but to me, it looks like ..."

Not surprisingly, Fox and MSNBC... (5.00 / 1) (#44)
by Dadler on Wed Jun 20, 2012 at 01:12:45 AM EST

...are numbers one and two in most misinformed viewers.

: And TL seems to have (5.00 / 2) (#45)
by Anne on Wed Jun 20, 2012 at 06:29:03 AM EST

attracted some of them, who have been dazzling us with their insightful grasp of so many issues...[rolling eyes]

: Ok. Now I get it. (none / 0) (#53)
by oculus on Wed Jun 20, 2012 at 08:31:32 AM EST

Fox is keeping this alive?

Somewhere in here is a joke about the (4.75 / 4) (#9)
by Anne on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 12:02:34 PM EST

optometrist needing to have his eyes examined, don't you think?

And it seems there could probably be a several-times-a-week post that could just be titled, "Romney Lies," or "What Romney's Lying About Now," because he does, and every other day it's about something else.

What a malevolent doofus.

As much as I love Wawa (none / 0) (#1)
by lilburro on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 10:59:30 AM EST

the logic used in making that comparison is baffling, regardless of the size of the form. I hope Obama responds to this one.

Re: "WaWa." I finally googled (none / 0) (#6)
by oculus on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 11:11:35 AM EST

it. Now in the "learn something everyday" category.


: Wawa (5.00 / 1) (#7)
by lilburro on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 11:39:46 AM EST

powered me through college. If I remember correctly they also have all day bagels and things like that. It's open 24 hours so it was nice to be able to eat something relatively nutritious at 3 am, and their coffee is no joke.

: I have never WaWa'd either (5.00 / 1) (#16)
by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 02:08:00 PM EST

: Ha (none / 0) (#17)
by jbindc on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 02:08:37 PM EST

"reasonable editing" by MSNBC - only if "reasonable" means taking the entire set of comments out of context.
Who is doing the editing at MSNBC? First the Zimmerman fiasco and now this shoddy work?
Why should we believe anything MSNBC says about anybody anymore? Even if they are covering the more important aspect of this story, as BTD points out - why watch them?
Silly season is in full gear.

SDtuff the BS people (none / 0) (#2)
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 11:07:22 AM EST

I'll give you an Open Thread to spout your stupidities.

Give me a sec.

Forest > Trees (5.00 / 1) (#3)
by CST on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 11:07:34 AM EST

It's not just about the length of a form. It's that his entire argument (government beurocracy = bad, private vending machine companies = good) is completely unfounded, his argument makes no sense, and the example he used to represent that is not true.


that was not to btd (none / 0) (#4)
by CST on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 11:08:24 AM EST

how did you replace the comment I replied to with your own, so that it still ended up as a reply?


I dunno (5.00 / 2) (#5)
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 11:10:50 AM EST

The comment was so stupid I could not stand to look at it.

But I made an open thread for stupid comments.

And I'm gone for the rest of the day and tomorrow.

So let stupidity reign!!


Now that BTD is gone, which comment made him (none / 0) (#8)
by Farmboy on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 11:54:30 AM EST

so upset? Must have been a doozy.

On-topic, there are certain sorts of media events both Obama and Romney need to stay away from. Obama needs to not put on a crash helmet or any sort of PPE. Romney needs to avoid checkout scanners or any sort of commonplace consumer interactions with technology. In either of these cases the media will pounce, and ignore/distort what was really said.

As to Romney lying, Benen has been running a weekly column on that topic over at Maddow Blog for months, and even his bosses at MSNBC don't seem to pick up on it.


Paraphrasing: (5.00 / 1) (#10)
by CST on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 12:16:15 PM EST

Ahhhhh!!! No one cares about lies!!! Hyperbole!!! Democrats are loooosers!!! AIOPUTHPIWEUSH!!!


: So, you "saved your work"? (none / 0) (#13)
by oculus on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 12:48:47 PM EST