Monday Open Thread

Dominique Strauss-Kahn faces more trouble in France.

It's a court day for me, so an open thread for you. BTD should be returning soon. All topics welcome.

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    Decided My son and I will (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon May 21, 2012 at 10:59:39 AM EST
    come up with our own reading list... the one the school put out is the one on the scholastic web page... imagine that.

    So I found some good ideas... a Tintin he hasn't read, among others. Still got Pippi, though... let's grit our teeth and get through, lolol!

    Lots of card games for math on the web, and now looking up origami projects.

    Any ideas, folks?  We're definitely going to start leaf collections, and then draw the leaves... fine motor skill and patience development...

    Has your son read Anthony Horowitz' (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by oculus on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:06:48 AM EST
    Alex Rider series?  A kid quasi James Bond.  
    Male 13 yr. old tutoree gobbled these up.    

    Charlotte's Web (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by jbindc on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:10:13 AM EST
    and A Wrinkle in Time

    How do you display a leaf collection? (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by sj on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:24:12 AM EST
    Happens I collect lots of leaves (and twigs and berries and weeds) for art projects.  I collect, dry flat (books are multi purpose in my house) and preserve with Mod Podge for later use.  I like the gloss because it brings out the color in the dried leaf.

    I would argue that the preservation process also requires patience and fine motor skills if you don't want to end up with a mangled leaf or one that is adhered to your work surface.  :)  But once decoupaged I guarantee they'll lose any fragility.

    I'm pulling for him when it comes to Pippi.  Even though it makes me tired just thinking about it...


    My mom (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by jbindc on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:44:56 AM EST
    a kindergarten teacher would have us (and her kids) preserve leaves by placing them between two sheets of wax paper and putting a clothes iron on top and pressing them (low heat).  Then we could hang them on the windows to look at our treasures.

    You bring up a very vague memory (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by sj on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:58:30 AM EST
    for me.  I must have done that, too?  

    Thanks.  Does the wax paper "melt" enough to expose the beauty of the leaf or does it stay milky?


    I think (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by jbindc on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:03:08 PM EST
    you can see a lot of the leaf - I honeslty can't remember.  But when you put it on the window, the light shines through and you can see all the pretty colors.

    Hmmmm. My girls and I enjoyed Pippi (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by oculus on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:03:03 PM EST
    The original movie.

    No segue:  my potted Chinese lantern has many red lanterns at present. Must get some midge.  


    Try spray acrylic first (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by sj on Mon May 21, 2012 at 05:29:10 PM EST
    I remember somebody recommended hairspray which I think would give it body.  I think it might also make it a dust magnet, but then again I've never tried it.

    Jeff, I am reposting this comment from the (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by caseyOR on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:27:29 AM EST
    other thread.

    About the reading- my grandmother was a second grade teacher and a reading specialist. She believed that what a child reads is less important than that a child reads. I remember her telling my mother to let my sisters and me read whatever we wanted, even the demon comic books, just get us reading.

    A suggestion for the lad's reading list. He's about 8 or 9, right? If so, he is at the perfect age to start reading the many books written by Beverly Cleary. There are the Ramona books and the Beezus books and the Henry books and so many more.

    Cleary grew up in Portland, and Portland locations appear in her books, and she is a local treasure. She was also a great writer of children's books.

    Take care. We're here if you need us.

    Here is a link to the Beverly Cleary website.


    Ramona! (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by jbindc on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:43:47 AM EST
    I always loved The Boxcar Children too.

    Casey, thanks. (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:14:16 PM EST
    If there's one thing I've done right, it's getting him to read. No trying to get to more chapter books, fewer graphic novels.  But I'll take him to the store and see if there's any age appropriate manga.

    HE loves his graphic novels. And he loves it when I read to him, still. :)


    Don't sell yourself short, Jeff. (5.00 / 5) (#49)
    by oculus on Mon May 21, 2012 at 02:13:19 PM EST
    A parent reading to a kid.  A kid picking up a book. A kid seeing a parent reading. It's all good.  

    A parent reading (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Zorba on Mon May 21, 2012 at 04:12:41 PM EST
    to a kid, and a kid seeing a parent reading, are probably the most important steps that lead to a kid picking up a book.

    I babysat one summer (5.00 / 5) (#70)
    by jbindc on Mon May 21, 2012 at 04:48:56 PM EST
    When I was in college for 2 boys - ages 9 and 12.  They were neighbors, and being 9 and 12, it really wasn't hard - they went out to play and ride their bikes.  Basically, I had to make sure they had lunch and didn't die while their mother was at work.  For an hour a day, I had to have the 9 year old ("Jimmy") read to me - he wanted to read comic books, so I let him. We had a nice time, and after that summer, I went back to school and always had another job every summer after that.

    I didn't think much about it until about 10 years later, when my dad picked Jimmy (now 19 and on leave from the Navy), up from the airport (dad ran an airport shuttle service).  They got to talking and Jimmy told my dad that my letting him read to me, and helping him through the tough parts, really had an impact on him, and he credited me with being able to read on his grade level that next school year.  It brought tears to my eyes - I never knew.

    It's amazing what affect you can have on people and not even realize it.


    Good for you, (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Zorba on Mon May 21, 2012 at 04:53:16 PM EST
    jbindc, good for you.  You're right.  You may not realize it at the time, but you can have a profound effect on people.

    I love (5.00 / 3) (#86)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon May 21, 2012 at 06:29:16 PM EST
    your line "basically i had to make sure they ate lunch and didn't die while their monther was at work."

    That sounds just like some babysitting jobs I did way back and when and when I think back it's almost a miracle somebody didn't die 'cause I sure did not watch them. And I was probably the most responsible of all of my classmates in this regards. While I just did not have a clue as to what they were doing or exactly where they were at any given moment, my friends were drinking their employer's wine and assorted other things.

    Kudos to you for getting the boy to read!


    Tolstoy (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by me only on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:41:53 AM EST
    Choose Your Own Adventure (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by vicndabx on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:57:03 AM EST
    As long as it's available (none / 0) (#14)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:06:17 PM EST
    at the public library, we're good. I'll have him check those out!

    Does he like horses? In any case (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by ruffian on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:21:19 PM EST
    I recommend 'King of the Wind', by Marguerite Henry. Wonderful adventure story. I loved all of her books at that age. This one also introduced me to the Arab world - lots of exotic detail to a girl growing up in the cornfields.

    Ah yes (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 22, 2012 at 08:53:01 AM EST
    Around his age I loved King of the Wind, and then Misty too.  Since the invention of the internet you can go read about current day Chincoteague ponies too after reading the book.  You can even watch videos of Arabian horses as well.  After those books I think Call of the Wild was where I went.

    How old is he? (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by CST on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:22:18 PM EST
    The Pushcart War by Jean Merrill

    The Book of Three by Lloyd Alexander (if he likes it, there are sequels)

    A Ring of Endless Light by Madeleine L'Engle

    The BFG by Roald Dahl (or anything really but that was my personal favorite, maybe Witches)

    Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury

    Key to the Treasure by Peggy Parish (might be a bit young, but fun)

    The Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson Burnett


    He just turned (none / 0) (#21)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:26:39 PM EST
    nine... so Farenheit 451 can wait a few years... but I do have a copy of it boxed up, just in case it turns into reality.

    Lots of Madeline L'Engle recs... I didn't enjoy her, and she had slipped my mind. My sister loved her works though...


    To be fair (none / 0) (#23)
    by CST on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:29:45 PM EST
    Madeline L'Engle might be more in tune with a female audience.  I wasn't actually a huge fan of the Wrinkle in Time books, but I really enjoyed A Ring of Endless Light.

    He may enjoy the Magic Treehouse (none / 0) (#51)
    by oculus on Mon May 21, 2012 at 02:15:55 PM EST
    series. Mini historical adventures.  Lots of books. My tutoree would tell me which ones he wanted for Bday and Christmas.

    also (none / 0) (#22)
    by CST on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:28:08 PM EST
    From the Mixed Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler by EL Konigsburg.

    Dunno if it was mentioned already but Harriet the Spy books by Louise Fitzhugh


    Interesting news about manufacturing (none / 0) (#26)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:38:50 PM EST

    Has this been discussed and I missed it?


    I don't think it's been discussed (5.00 / 4) (#30)
    by CST on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:43:38 PM EST
    Makes sense, considering the drop in the dollar and the constant upward pressure in shipping costs.

    Honestly, the private sector job gains have been okay the last few years, it's just that with the government laying people off left and right there is no real pressure on the unemployment rate.

    Some people refuse to acknowledge that government jobs are real jobs.  But it says something that amid all the slash and burn government nonsense that's been going on, the unemployment rate has remained relatively static.  Stuff like this is part of the reason.


    oops, hit post too soon (none / 0) (#28)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:41:27 PM EST
    Interesting news about manufacturing (none / 0) (#27)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:41:06 PM EST

    I think manufacturing returning bodes well. I wish to see ownership or corporate residence returning, also... even if it is done through incentives of some kind... even through disincentives... move HQ here, or face huge regulation and taxation issues.

    Has this been discussed and I missed it?


    Joshua has been enjoying (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 22, 2012 at 08:47:28 AM EST
    Obert Skye's Leven Thumbs series.  And The Hunger Games is also written for kids, but everyone is reading it much the same way that it went down with Harry Potter.  I have not read The Hunger Games though, told Josh I would read the series with him this summer.  My daughter who is considered an adult :)read them all a few months ago, pronounced them well written for kids as well as adults.

    Nine might be young (none / 0) (#150)
    by sj on Tue May 22, 2012 at 09:42:07 AM EST
    for The Hunger Games.  Although I've forgotten how old Josh is, it seems to me that he's such an insightful soul and brave spirit that he can read anything he darn well feels like.  It's classified as Young Adult Lit which is rather a guilty pleasure of mine.  

    Typically YA is an afternoon of escapism.  but The Hunger Games is rather haunting.  I will be very, very interested in your take.

    Myself, I was like a tween fan waiting for the movie to come out.  I wasn't sure they would keep the nuance of the characters, but I think they did very well in that regard.  And now I can't wait for the extended features DVD.

    I hadn't heard about Leven Thump, but after checking him out, I think I should get to know him better.


    It is why I chose to read them together (none / 0) (#151)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 22, 2012 at 10:13:27 AM EST
    Some of Josh's classmates though are reading it by themselves.  The more avid readers in his class have done so, and I don't think their parents read the series.  It's odd though, some families would never allow their 11 year old to watch 'Family Guy' but Josh watches it all the time.  But I will monitor his consumption of The Hunger Games :)  Meanwhile people who would never allow their child to watch 'Family Guy' don't monitor the books the kids read at all because reading is "good" :)  Much of Josh's class devoured the Twilight series as fourth graders too, and they passed the books around to each other.  Josh's fave thing to do is not reading, but that has changed some this year.  I assume it is because he is maturing more and enjoying a good story.  The other thing that I started doing was reading books that challenged him together, by him reading me a page and then me reading him a page.  I was really surprised when he was laid up and he decided to meet his AR goal in one week.  I didn't know he could do that at this point, but he sure can when he wants to.  His reading level tested out at 9th grade, but I know some of his classmates have to have that scale maxed out already.  Most of them girls at this point, but that balances out more in a few years.

    I think reading it together (none / 0) (#161)
    by sj on Tue May 22, 2012 at 11:47:32 PM EST
    is a great thing to do.  There's a lot to talk about in their world as well as in the plot.

    Excellent suggestions. (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:04:34 PM EST
    Tell me, should I have him read Tolstoy in Russian, followed by Bakunin, or should he read Gramsci first, then Tolstoy, then Bakunin, and then, oh, Schrodinger's "Quantisierung als Eigenwertproblem?"

    I was leaning toward some string-theory, but his grandmother reminded me that this Is summer vacation, after all.

    But we're definitely doing Beverly, Casey, and "Charlotte's Web," "Stuart Little," and "A Wrinkle in Time."  I think he'll love Beezus and Ramona!

    Oculus, we'll check out the series, he's a James Bond fanatic-- he has seen the later movies whenhe lived in Colombia... I would have waited a few years, but water under the bridge.

    We're also going to include some evolutionary Christian tracts-- my sister's sending them--All god's creations, and their evolution from single cell onward, or something like that... NOT CREATIONISM NOR INTELLIGENT DESIGN IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.

    My sister wants him to come visit for a week, either before I have Surgery/radiation/chemo again in July, or (better for me) the week i begin the stuff... so vacation bible school.  I have no issues there... we put off his First Communion in Colombia for education's sake, so he'll get it there some time.

    I had a colleague who influenced his kids against any beliefs-- Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, beginning at an early age-- 2 or 3...  I can't go that route. My beliefs are mine, and his beliefs will be his. He'll be exposed to everything, even the philosophies of Satanism-- saving that for his adult years, or I'll leave that in a message for him, one of the two.

    Belief systems are important, and knowing where they come from's important also. He can believe differently from me, and I will not bat an eye.

    ...so long as he knows the world and the universe are more then 6,000 years old, and neither Abraham nor Buddha rode a dinosaur...

    Maybe Ook and Gluk, from Dav Pilkey, but nobody real. Okay, maybe Keith Richards, but that's another story.

    My Side of the Mountain, by (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Anne on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:16:27 PM EST
    Jean George, is a great kids' book, or at least it's one I just loved when I was your son's age.

    And I loved the Judy Blume books, too.


    LOL! (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Zorba on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:18:42 PM EST
    I recommend Nikos Kazantzakis, in Greek.  I have a copy of Zorba the Greek (what else?) kicking around here somewhere.  In Greek.  And The Last Temptation of Christ.  That one may be a bit much for a kid.....     ;-)
    I think you're on the right track.  But as caseyOR's grandmother said- get him reading whatever he wants.  It's the reading itself that's important.

    Yeah (5.00 / 0) (#53)
    by jondee on Mon May 21, 2012 at 02:35:37 PM EST
    I used to say music was important, until I heard "I'm a soljah I done told ya..don't make me f*ck you up.." coming from his room..

    If he studies Russian in HS he (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by me only on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:34:47 PM EST
    then would read it in Russian.  I thought your kid was a teenager.  I started Tolstoy when I was 12.  Unless you major in English or some other Humanities endeavor you will not have time at university to read Tolstoy.  It is perfect to read over a summer.  An hour a day will get you through it.

    Start with "The Death of Ivan Ilyich."  My wife says that the Penguin classics version is a good translation and the guy at work whose wife is Russian agrees.


    Oh, I see below that he is (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by me only on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:36:26 PM EST
    9.  Yeah wait on the Tolstoy.  Read The Hobbit this year.  He can then go see the movie this fall.

    He's bilingual now, so (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:43:58 PM EST
    I'm hoping to add multilingual... why be a monoglot when you've created the brain paths to learn other languages?

    Chinese, Japanese, or Russian... French will be easy. Which should he learn first?


    Any romance language (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Zorba on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:56:19 PM EST
    will be fairly easy, since he already knows one.
    If it were up to me, on a scale of global importance, I would choose Chinese first, Russian second, but either would be good.  Both require learning a different alphabet, of course.  Learning to read and write Russian would probably be easier than learning to read and write Chinese.  (Not saying Russian would be a piece of cake, but Chinese requires learning thousands of characters if you want to be totally literate.)

    I would go with (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by CST on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:59:53 PM EST
    Chinese or Arabic first due to importance.  But yea, different alphabet, etc... may be a challenge.

    I agree (none / 0) (#37)
    by Zorba on Mon May 21, 2012 at 01:02:18 PM EST
    about Arabic, too, CST.

    I have taken both Russian and Japanese. (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by lilburro on Mon May 21, 2012 at 05:32:26 PM EST
    (Russian, HS, 3 years, Japanese, college, 1 yr).  Russian was a lot easier.  I actually thought Cyrillic was an advantage because you weren't tempted to confuse the language with English.  Chinese is probably more useful though.

    I'd keep up the Spanish, including (none / 0) (#84)
    by oculus on Mon May 21, 2012 at 06:14:02 PM EST
    readingincluding reading and writing. Then he will flourish in CA, which is now over 37% Latino.

    Definitely The Hobbit (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Zorba on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:50:47 PM EST
    My kids both read it at about that age, and then a couple of years later, they moved on to The Lord of the Rings Trilogy.
    I wish that they would start foreign languages at a much earlier age in this country, rather than waiting until high school or late middle school.  Learning a second language at a very young age is the way to go, and I think that being bi-lingual very young prepares you better for learning other languages when you're older.

    Hey, me... ihave a lot of folks who (none / 0) (#104)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon May 21, 2012 at 08:14:23 PM EST
    think i'm grandpops who took over for some reason.

    Did anyone mention The Borrowers? (5.00 / 4) (#29)
    by Anne on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:43:20 PM EST
    Really loved those books.

    Misty of Chincoteague is another good one.

    I was a kid who loved to read - I would read cereal boxes and ketchup labels if there was nothing else available.  I still love to read - my idea of the ideal vacation is the beach, plenty of sunscreen, a jug of lemonade, a comfortable chair, an umbrella, and tons of books.  My Nook means that I now do not have to lug a giant LL Bean bag of books along with me!

    I'm fairly drooling thinking about it...


    Oohhhh, lots of (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:45:50 PM EST
    Chincoteague books out there... Thanks, Anne! With the tie in to the new Borrowers cartoon movie, good suggestions!

    As long as we're talking about horse books... (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by caseyOR on Mon May 21, 2012 at 01:59:04 PM EST
    Another good book is Walter Farley's The Black Stallion which is the first book in a series about the black stallion and the boy who loved him. Actually, all the books in the series are good.

    As I recall, these are entertaining adventure books.

    The Black Stallion


    And I think there is a Black Stallion (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by caseyOR on Mon May 21, 2012 at 02:00:00 PM EST

    There is (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Zorba on Mon May 21, 2012 at 02:49:39 PM EST
    And it starred Kelly Reno, Mickey Rooney, Terri Garr, and Hoyt Axton.  Talk about a disparate cast!  And I loved the movie.  Magnificent horses in it, by the way.  ;-)

    You have just brought back (none / 0) (#54)
    by Zorba on Mon May 21, 2012 at 02:43:19 PM EST
    cherished memories of many happy hours reading the Walter Farley books.  I adored his books when I was young.  Ah, nostalgia!

    Me, too, Zorba. (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by caseyOR on Mon May 21, 2012 at 03:49:27 PM EST
    This whole thread of book talk is a big ole stroll down memory lane for me. I started reading when I was four (learned from the Sunday funnies), and never stopped.

    I can better remember the books I read as a child than I can the books I read last year. :-)


    Hahahaha! (none / 0) (#63)
    by Zorba on Mon May 21, 2012 at 03:59:49 PM EST
    Yes, that's true for me, too, casey!

    this whole thread (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by CST on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:47:14 PM EST
    is making me very nostalgic.

    I use to curl up in this old chest my parents had where they kept sleeping bags, unroll all the bags, grab a flashlight, and disappear for hours reading books hidden away from the world.

    It really confused my parents since I was actually terrible at English in school for a very long time.  But I read very fast, and wasn't good with details like grammar or spelling, I just gobbled up the books.  Eventually the rest of it came around, they never told me until I was older, they hoped it would self correct - which it basically did.


    Robin to the greenwood has gone.. (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by jondee on Mon May 21, 2012 at 02:31:20 PM EST
    for boys of a certain age, you can't go wrong with Robin Hood, with all it's slightly subversive
    political, ecological, and spiritual (R Graves said Robin Hood connected to Khidr the Sufi initiator of souls..) subtexts..

    It can also be a great jumping off point for historical talks with the lad about "the Great Change", the enclosures etc

    "..they say that I'm an outlaw, they say that I'm a thief, well here's a Christmas dinner for the familes on relief.."


    I gave my niece Misty, Stormy and (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by ruffian on Mon May 21, 2012 at 08:13:06 PM EST
    King of the Wind that I mentioned above for Christmas. Have not heard if she read them yet - I'm afraid to ask. she loves horses and I know she would like them, but maybe they are too old fashioned for today's kids?   Anyway I got a real thrill just holding them and skimming through again. They were probably the books that started my reading addiction.

    My 10 (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon May 21, 2012 at 01:18:18 PM EST
    year old is a huge fan of Geronimo Stilton link

    I didn't have chemo but I found it was better to not have people around during "treatment" since I wasn't supposed to hug or even touch my children and my husband. I would imagine that it would be easier for you to have him at your sister's than home with you during this time.

    I hope your treatment is going well. You sound very upbeat which is great!!


    I love a lot of the books listed here (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by lilburro on Mon May 21, 2012 at 05:29:46 PM EST
    esp. My Side of the Mountain, which still lives in the back of my brain somewhere (not very far back, actually).  I used to like the Indian in the Cupboard books, there was also one about a kid raising a tiny dragon whose name slips my mind.

    BUT!  What I really wanted to say was, Calvin & Hobbes!!  My brother and I read Calvin & Hobbes obsessively as kids and it really expanded our vocabulary, got us drawing, etc.  I think you can get a lot out of it as a kid and my mom enjoyed reading it to us as well.  Then again, it may have something to do with our shared twisted sense of humor, so, keep that in mind.  Other comics are good too, Pogo, Krazy Kat, Peanuts of course, Mutts, which is newer.  We read novels too but it was always nice to be able to pick up a Calvin & Hobbes collection - and it still is today!

    Anyway that's my 2 cents!


    I loved Calvin and Hobbes! My husband gave me (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Angel on Mon May 21, 2012 at 05:38:57 PM EST
    the bound three-volume edition as a gift.  I'm such a kid.

    Re: displaying leaves... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:11:43 PM EST
    We'll press them, then draw them. Also maybe some watercolors. Good for fine motor control, and he loves to draw. He's officially ADHD now, not just my thoughts, so fast paced things like slapjack, scooter, etc.

    But when he draws or reads or plays computer games-- he's tranquil. Bad effects after computer at times, have to limit his time and his games.

    I think that clear plastic contact paper's preferred to wax paper now, but this isn't for school, it's for the process, so we'll probably go with waxed paper. We have enough books and bricks to press them.

    Re ADHD (none / 0) (#39)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 21, 2012 at 01:32:53 PM EST
    Get him in sports. Soccer would be great. Baseball also.

    Basketball too (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 21, 2012 at 01:34:01 PM EST
    Lots of summer programs around.

    No (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon May 21, 2012 at 01:36:07 PM EST
    baseball is awful for ADHD. WE didn't know and we put our son in it and it was a nightmare because you have so much time that you are literally doing nothing in baseball. After all that, the doctor said I could have told you not to do baseball if you had asked but I unfortunately did not think to ask.

    Soccer, yes, baseball, no.


    My son, too (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Zorba on Mon May 21, 2012 at 01:47:15 PM EST
    is ADHD.  Baseball was pretty "meh" for him- he did fine batting (once he figured out that he could do it), but being an outfielder was really awful for him.
    Martial arts was his salvation.  It involves a whole lot of discipline, yes (which was good for him- he really respected his sensei, which was a hugely important component), but it's also very active, using a lot of large muscles, as well as small.  It let him get moving, learn something that he could be really good at, learn some discipline, and blow off steam, all at once.  He particularly liked sparring, as well as weapons, especially nunchucks, although he was pretty good with the bo staff, too.

    The trick is that you must have a coach (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 21, 2012 at 08:37:09 PM EST
    and coaches that are busy teaching the game. You don't let the outfielder just stand there. You are teaching him where to go for left vs right handed pitchers.... where to go when his pitcher is throwing fast balls vs slow stuff... how to run towards on a ball hit to the infield to back up the infielder, etc., etc.

    That means the coach has to be coaching rather than shooting the breeze with his buds or complaining that the kids aren't "in the game."

    If the coach does what I mention then the kid won't be bored and will become a very good player even if he isn't a world class athlete... and that's what's good about baseball.

    Now, if the coach isn't doing that then I agree. The kid, any kid, will become bored.

    BTW - To be transparent I remind you that I coach Little League.


    Have had others disagree with you. (none / 0) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 21, 2012 at 01:37:41 PM EST
    If he has a good coach who teaches him how to play he will be involved on every pitch.

    The standing (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon May 21, 2012 at 01:44:44 PM EST
    in the outfield was the problem. He was laying on the ground throwing the glove in the air and at the age he played, it was coach's pitch so the coach was busily focused on pitching to players on home base.

    I just spoke to my son (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Zorba on Mon May 21, 2012 at 02:02:18 PM EST
    (now an adult) and he agreed about baseball.  He suggested, besides martial arts, soccer and basketball- sports where you are moving around a whole lot and don't have a lot of time standing around, waiting for something to happen and getting distracted.
    He also suggested track or swimming, for kids who like those things.  When you're "on," you're "on," and he didn't think it much mattered what you were looking at or getting distracted by when it wasn't your turn to compete.

    Yep. (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon May 21, 2012 at 02:14:41 PM EST
    Martial arts was wonderful for my older son and track has been great for you younger son. Pretty much agree 100% with everything your son said.

    I have to agree with Jim (none / 0) (#56)
    by NYShooter on Mon May 21, 2012 at 03:03:29 PM EST
    Baseball is like Chess. Those who know nothing about chess can't understand what's so great about two people staring at a board for hours on end. Yet, real chess enthusiasts have been known to pass out from the intense excitement of watching two great players play the game.

    If you've never watched someone like Sandy Koufax tease, frustrate, and make opposing batters explode in frustration, you don't know the game of baseball.

    kind of reminds me of my kids when they were around 12 years old: "How can you stand that crap you're listening to?"......Mozart.



    It is, (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Zorba on Mon May 21, 2012 at 03:23:33 PM EST
    And as I said (comment #57), my son is hugely interested in baseball now, and follows it closely, including all the minutiae of the statistical analyses that escape me (and I love baseball).  But as a young kid, this all went way over his head and didn't matter to him.  All he knew, as an ADHD player, was that standing around in the outfield was excruciatingly boring and he just hated it and wasn't good at it because he could not help but let his attention wander.  Maybe if he had possessed the talent at the time to be a pitcher or a catcher, it might have been different.

    And the funny thing is, (none / 0) (#57)
    by Zorba on Mon May 21, 2012 at 03:16:46 PM EST
    As an adult, he now follows baseball very closely, because he is very, very interested in the new statistical analysis, sabermetrics, and all that kind of stuff that I don't understand at all.  But he does.  What can I say?
    As far as baseball is concerned, all I know is: Go, Cards!   ;-)

    I hear you ms Zorba (5.00 / 3) (#89)
    by NYShooter on Mon May 21, 2012 at 06:49:22 PM EST
    I probably was talking in general about things that interest some people, and not at all others.

    Take Picasso, as an example. I probably was as guilty as so many others feeling like: "THIS sold for 50 kazillion dollars???" A fat chick with 3 eyes and a nose where her ear should be?" lol

    That is, until I saw a PBS special about Picasso. It was so wonderful (I've tried to find it in the archives, but no luck so far) Anyway, they went through his life history and how he progressed as a painter. I had no clue that Pablo was a classical artist, rivaling the likes of Rembrandt in his earlier years. Then, they did a computer graphic simulation where they started with one of those classical portraits. Frame by frame, they showed the same picture, but with just little changes indicating the "growth" of his artistry. Little by little that classical portrait morphed before your eyes through all his "periods" until it ended being the "fat chick with 3 eyes and a nose where her ear should be!"

    And, now it was the most beautiful picture I had ever seen.

    The man was a genius.


    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Zorba on Mon May 21, 2012 at 07:40:48 PM EST
    And as we get older, and more educated and experienced, all kinds of things that might have been opaque to us when we were younger, can become much clearer and very much valued.

    Picasso.... (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by ZtoA on Mon May 21, 2012 at 09:51:02 PM EST
    My dad used to say no music really existed after Mozart. But today he actually plays Debussy. I hesitate to introduce Arvo Part's music to him.

    Picasso was a great artist, but really a horrible person.

    I used to have a bad attitude about minimalists, and, basically still do. With the exception of Mark Rothko. I recently went to a museum show of Rothko and went with a friend who is expert in conservation and materials (and I know some too) and who is also a natural lover of paint (as I am too). It was one of the best experiences I've ever had - exchanging information and observations alongside of experiencing the pulsating color fields. Plus, there were several late pieces which he did when seriously depressed and were commissions where he actually wanted to give the viewer a nauseating visual experience. He used what some call "dead colors" - a kind of mauve (caput mordem) and a slate grey - in such a way that huge two story gray painting was as alive as the Brahms Requiem.


    Thanks for the insightful post (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by NYShooter on Mon May 21, 2012 at 10:05:01 PM EST
    One thing I've learned: Appreciation for great works requires study and effort. It doesn't just "come to you."

    And, I,unhesitatingly, agree with this:

    "Picasso was a great artist, but really a horrible person."


    As ZtoA demonstrates (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:03:47 PM EST
    it's HUGELY helpful to have a knowledgeable guide, somebody thoughtful who really knows their stuff.  Oftentimes, all it takes is one person walking you through one piece (art or music) to crearte that "Eureka" breakthrough moment that changes the way you hear/see forever.

    Yep (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by sj on Tue May 22, 2012 at 01:54:07 AM EST
    it's HUGELY helpful to have a knowledgeable guide, somebody thoughtful who really knows their stuff.  
    My entree into opera was via a knowledgeable sales person at a little music store called Disky Business.  It was a great store before it was put out of business by Tower Records.  They sold new and used CDs and you could listen to any recording in its entirety before purchasing.  They had little listening stations all about.

    On weekends they would try to have a sales person knowledgeable about each (or at least most) genre.  I loved talking to guy who did world music.  And when I decided that I wanted to jump into opera I spoke with someone who took time to listen to what had previously put me off.

    Then he pulled out some Cecilia Bartoli, talked to me a while about her and what made her unique.  And I was off and running.


    Great artistry has no connection (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:05:44 PM EST
    to great humanity, alas.  Some of the greatest artists I've known were horrible human beings, some were wonderful people.  There's just no connection at all.  It comes from somewhere else than the human personality, IMO.

    I find it doesn't pay to spend much time reading about or thinking about the person behind the art.


    well.... (none / 0) (#129)
    by ZtoA on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:54:57 PM EST
    well, personally, knowing or having known quite a number of what I would consider great artists, I would say that the really horrible person being a really great artist meme is overplayed. Most are actually great people too. The danger is ego and artists do have ego (in the lay person terminology of the term). Thus, they get taken down regularly - usually in reviews or bad sales. Heck, even Rembrandt lost sales as he grew older and was much less successful as an old man. But he was not a media darling in his day. The media loves the nasty artist story line. Museums like the controversy too. Gotta get those sales to the blockbuster shows! (don't get me wrong - I completely understand that approach and don't disagree...at least not 100%) But, gyrlfalcon (like that name btw) I agree, in general that image making does not make a person somehow more moral. They usually are more sensitive tho.

    Sometimes, sure (none / 0) (#131)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue May 22, 2012 at 12:24:00 AM EST
    But it's not something you can count on.  I couldn't care less about the "media," I'm talking direct personal experience. (Oh, the stories I could tell..)

    And just for the record, I'm not talking about temperamental fits and throwing things and mistreatment of staff, etc., as a response to stress and anxiety.  The vast majority of performing artists, anyway, are bright enough to realize they need to behave most of the time, and are generally easily forgiven for the occasional temper tantrum, given the unimaginable pressures they live under.

    But my point isn't anecdotes about bad behavior, but just that having known a few, I've seen zero relationship between artistic sublimeness and personal qualities.  They're just like the rest of us, IOW, some profound, most not, some possessing spiritual qualities, most not.

    I'm not religious, but I've come to believe that artistic ability is a gift that's bestowed for no knowable reason from some other place outside of ourselves.


    Re-reading more carefully (none / 0) (#132)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue May 22, 2012 at 12:37:34 AM EST
    I see you're mostly talking, I think, about visual artists, which is a world I'm utterly unacquainted with.  My world was for many years performers, and I suspect the pressures and rewards have a quite different dynamic when your audience is in front of you and responding in the moment as you perform than it is for visual artists, who do their thing and then have to wait for years to find out if feedback and appreciation will unfold over time or not.  Excruciating.

    And in the performing world anyway, I haven't found that, as you say, "most are more sensitive." Some are, some aren't, just like the rest of us.  And again, I've found no relationship between that kind of sensitivity/vulnerability and the extent of their gifts.

    I remember in particular one musician who could play something a simple as "Greensleeves" with such subtle subliminity (if that's a word) it would just about make you pass out, and who was the most astonishingly narcissistic and oblivious person I've ever known in my life.  He fascinated me because the contrast was so extreme between the music he produced and the shallowness of his soul.


    how does he feel about jigsaw puzzles? (none / 0) (#48)
    by CST on Mon May 21, 2012 at 02:08:29 PM EST
    it's not fast paced, but it is constant, good for the brain and (I think) fun.

    Dharun Ravi gets 30 day sentence (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by Peter G on Mon May 21, 2012 at 03:44:46 PM EST
    in the Tyler Clementi webcam dorm spying case at Rutgers.  Seems like a fair sentence to me.

    A tragic case, and a tough call. (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by KeysDan on Mon May 21, 2012 at 05:22:07 PM EST
    But, I think the lenient sentencing trivializes the crimes.  Mr. Ravi was found guilty on all 15 counts charged in the indictment, including invasion of privacy, bias intimidation and tampering with evidence--deleting 86 text messages and Tweets from his account, that the judge characterized as "cold, calculated and methodically conceived."  

    How Ravi's "colossal insensitivity", as the judge termed his spy-cam activities, played into the consequences for Tyler Clementi is, with any precision, unknown, but it is not unreasonable to believe that it was a factor.  While the maximum sentence of up to 10 years would be out of wack, six months to a year of jail time, with a much shorter probationary sentence would, to me, better serve justice.  


    We are not in any serious disagreement (5.00 / 3) (#102)
    by Peter G on Mon May 21, 2012 at 07:50:24 PM EST
    The sentence you mention would also have been reasonable. There is seldom a "right" answer for sentencing, although I've seen quite a few wrong ones.

    Tyler Clementi's death (none / 0) (#124)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:11:21 PM EST
    is not what he was charged with.  Maybe he should hae been, or maybe Clementi's parents will file a civil suit.  But I thought the judge, who made his scathing contempt for Ravi very clear, did a good job of sentencing him for only the stuff he was actually convicted of.

    And I would say Ravi has paid and will pay for the rest of his life one hell of a penalty for his almost unspeakably boorish actions.


    For purposes of clarification, (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by KeysDan on Tue May 22, 2012 at 08:05:42 AM EST
    my view on Ravi's sentencing relates to the crimes for which the jury found him guilty.   I am aware that Ravi was not charged with Tyler Clementi's jumping off the George Washington bridge.

    Oddly, (none / 0) (#159)
    by DebFrmHell on Tue May 22, 2012 at 04:09:53 PM EST
    I thought it was the judical equivalent of a "time out" for a petulant child.

    If 30 days in jail is "time out" (none / 0) (#166)
    by Peter G on Wed May 23, 2012 at 01:58:53 PM EST
    to you, then you have obviously not spent 24 hours in a jail, nor is it likely that you know anyone who has.  

    My Take on the Dharun Ravi Case (none / 0) (#163)
    by RickyJ on Wed May 23, 2012 at 10:31:22 AM EST
    I watched once and read a fair amount.  As a critic of American judicial practice, the whole affair bugged me.  I will leave out a discussion of the laws involved because even the judge raised questions about them.

    In the US, the course of a trial is all in the hands of the lawyers instead of the judges.  Ravi's lawyer was rather uncharismatic.  The time I watched, he spent a long time nit picking with a state investigator.  I am sure he put the jury to sleep or worse, antagonized them.  His best chance was to make Ravi into a likable person.  A reporter in one article I read, sought out a couple of gays that Ravi was friendly with and they would have been good witnesses for him.  Unfortunately, the defense only found character witnesses among friends of his father. They never discussed Ravi's views on homosexuality with him.  

    Ravi should have gotten on the stand and said his tweets were just childish stupid pranks and explained that he had turned the camera away from Clementi's bed before leaving for frisbee practice.  The victim (MB?) who testified, said he didn't see the cam the second time and that backed up Ravi.  The judge also seemed miffed that Ravi didn't apologize at sentencing.

    There are features of US trials that are much different than what happens in the rest of the world.  For example, here lawyers run practice sessions for their witnesses and the defendant never testifies.  I think both are wrong.  Ravi couldn't have done worse if he had testified. Also the prosecution was able to keep Clementi's suicide note and other prior writings from the defense so they could not be used to show how little Ravi had to do with the suicide.  It is ridiculous to believe that the jury wasn't influenced by the unspoken accusation that Ravi was a prime cause of it.  There is only one evidence file for European trials.  One side can't hide anything.


    He wasn't charged with causing or contributing to (none / 0) (#164)
    by Angel on Wed May 23, 2012 at 11:09:50 AM EST
    the suicide.  He was charged with bias intimidation based on sexual orientation, a hate crime.  

    Is Ohio Gov. John Kasich in trouble? (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon May 21, 2012 at 03:51:31 PM EST
    Several sources are reporting that he is under federal investigation over allegations of bribery with regards to several of his gubernatorial appointments.

    What makes this somewhat fascinating is that Ohio Democrats are not the one who are making these charges against Kasich, but rather several of his fellow Republicans, who are accusing him of attempting to recast the Ohio GOP in his own image.

    Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:13:37 PM EST
    How delightful!  Kasich was the Paul Ryan of his time before there was a Paul Ryan.  I would, being a mean person at heart, dearly love to see him brought down with a thud from his insufferable perch of righteousness and virtue by something like this.  (er, but only if he actually did it, you understand...)

    Birther Madness, Vol. MMCLXXIV: (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon May 21, 2012 at 06:37:05 PM EST
    Regarding the latest birther skirmish between the states of Arizona and Hawaii, Talking Points Memo has obtained and posted the lengthy e-mail exchange between Arizona Sec. of State Ken Bennett's office and Hawaii Deputy Attorney Gen. Jill Nagamine regarding the president's place of birth, in which Nagamine turns the tables on the Republicans by questioning Bennett's own credentials:

    BENNETT: "As the chief elections officer for the State of Arizona and pursuant to Arizona Revised Statutes, sections 16-212, 16-301, 16-502, 16-507 and others, my office is tasked with quadrennially compiling a list of candidates for the Office of the President of the United States. This list is then officially 'certified' by my office and transmitted to the fifteen counties for creation of the official ballots. The list is generated in the 'ordinary course' of my office's activities (every four years) and it is certainly made for a 'legitimate government purpose' (elections). Based on the above representation, I believe that my office has strictly and expressly complied with all of the elements found in Hawaii Revised Statutes, section 338-18(g)."

    NAGAMINE: "I asked you for legal authority that establishes your right to obtain verification, and your email of May 17, 2012 provides me with references to Arizona Revised Statutes 16-212, 16-301, 16-502, 16-507, and unnamed others. These statutes seem to deal with election of presidential electors, nomination of candidates for printing on official ballot of general or special election, form and contents of ballot, and presentation of presidential candidates on ballot, but none, as far as I can tell, establish the authority of the Secretary of State to maintain and update official lists of persons in the ordinary course of his activities. I researched other sections of the Arizona Revised Statutes and was unable to find the necessary authority. If I have missed something, please let me know. My client stands willing to provide you with the verification you seek as soon as you are able to show that you are entitled to it."

    Given the sub-par caliber and quality of its elected public officials, one can be forgiven for wondering how Arizona ever achieved statehood at all. Brewer, Bennett, Arpaio, et al., are an utter embarrassment to the nation.

    Bravo to Nagamine! (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:19:35 PM EST
    And yes, from the interviews I've heard with all of those Arizona characters, it does make you wonder.  Brewer in particular is very close to being officially brain dead.

    TIP OF THE DAY (5.00 / 3) (#95)
    by NYShooter on Mon May 21, 2012 at 07:20:25 PM EST
    When starting a new book have a pad and pencil/pen next to it. And as each new character enters the story for the first tome write down the name, and a quickie description of who he/she is. The following abbreviated list is a self-explanatory reason why:

    Capt. McCluskey
    Vito Corleone
    Vitelli Corleone
    Bruno Tattaglia
    Capt. McCluskey
    Carlo Rizzi
    Don Philip Tattaglia
    Don Emilio Tattaglia
    Don Emilio Barzini
    Don Tommasino
    Don Victor Stracci
    Don Zaluchi
    Fredo Corleone
    Kay Adams
    Luca Brasi

    And this is but a small fraction of the characters.

    A very underappreciated literary (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by jondee on Mon May 21, 2012 at 07:25:24 PM EST
    experience, that book..

    Especially the part when Sterling Hayden says "stand 'im up" and the camera slowly zooms in on Al Pacinos face..


    It was the first long book (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by NYShooter on Mon May 21, 2012 at 07:45:42 PM EST
    That I, literally couldn't put down once I started reading.

    To their credit the movie was superlative also.

    "Today I settled all family business." Still get chills.


    That line was part of the ... (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon May 21, 2012 at 08:29:20 PM EST
    ... best exchanges in the book and film, when Sal Tessio (Abe Vigoda, Jr.) accepted his fate after the previously arranged attempt on Michael Corleone's life was pre-empted by Michael's settiling of the family business, telling Tom Hagen (Robert Duvall):

    "Tell Mike it was just business. It was nothing personal. I always liked him."


    Tom, can ya get me off da hook..? (none / 0) (#155)
    by jondee on Tue May 22, 2012 at 12:21:23 PM EST
    can't do it, Mickey..

    Jeralyn-- (1.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Doug1111 on Mon May 21, 2012 at 04:27:31 PM EST
    You run an excellent site.

    I'd suggest though that you either expand your Zimmerman thread's comment quotas temporarily (first preference) or be better at creating additional ones promptly.  I understand why the later is difficult often enough, which is why I recommend the former.


    got any books you like to read? (5.00 / 3) (#67)
    by CST on Mon May 21, 2012 at 04:32:50 PM EST
    I think the former has more to do with the hosting company/technology behind the scenes than Jeralyn herself.

    iirc (none / 0) (#68)
    by nycstray on Mon May 21, 2012 at 04:41:58 PM EST
    it clogged down(/or some such thing) the diaries when it went over 200 comments.

    Currently reading The Hitman's Guide to Housecleaning and Golden Gate Gardening :) Love many of the books mentioned above. I was a book-a-holic as a child. Re-read several of the Black Stallions a few years back when I was working on updated covers for them. Hey, it was my JOB!


    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by sj on Mon May 21, 2012 at 05:06:45 PM EST
    the 200 comment limit was explained to the "newbies" at least a week ago.  Maybe two?  

    Do you know I don't think I've ever read the Black Stallion?  After reading Black Beauty I was so traumatized that I didn't dare pick up another horse book.  I still don't know why everyone at school was raving about Black Beauty.

    I'm intrigued by the title you've mentioned but I'm going to have to wait until I get home to see what I can find out.


    Now I know how the veterans here (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by oculus on Mon May 21, 2012 at 06:23:29 PM EST
    felt when BTD arrived.

    Please, don't morph TalkLaft into all Zommerman all the time.    


    Although I chuckle at the new Left-Leaning Comedy website called "Talklaft" and that crazy comedy genius "Zommerman." :-)

    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 21, 2012 at 08:44:15 PM EST
    I don't do Zimmerman on any other site, either. Jeralyn's comments provide knowledge of the law rather than just arguments between those who believe vs don't believe.

    Zimmerman threads are interesting, and revolting.. (5.00 / 3) (#112)
    by ZtoA on Mon May 21, 2012 at 09:13:42 PM EST
    sort of like watching sausage being made.

    There was a functional group (4.00 / 3) (#93)
    by Rojas on Mon May 21, 2012 at 07:12:03 PM EST
    of liberals here before the clintonian dems over ran the place.
    Come to think of it, the same was pretty much true of congress and a fair amount of the US goverment in general up to about 92 as well.
    I'm thinking the centrist are kinda like the the babtists... we just didn't hold them under water long enough.

    Hmmm . . . (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by nycstray on Mon May 21, 2012 at 07:21:47 PM EST
    since J was supporting HRC, does that make her a "clintonian dem"?

    Are you familliar (none / 0) (#100)
    by Rojas on Mon May 21, 2012 at 07:41:22 PM EST
    with her writings over the last two decades?

    I still find it terribly ironic ... (none / 0) (#106)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon May 21, 2012 at 08:31:25 PM EST
    ... that when the Trayvon Martin story first began to break in the national media, Jeralyn barely mentioned it in passing and predicted that she probably wouldn't be spending much time on the subject.

    ironic? (2.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Rojas on Mon May 21, 2012 at 08:49:38 PM EST
    I think you are looking for another word, one that is foreign to your very being.
    The bigger the lynch mob the more she brings to the party.

    "Lynch mob" (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Yman on Tue May 22, 2012 at 06:42:24 AM EST

    "Black Stallion" (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:15:42 PM EST
    has some tough parts about the mistreatment of the horse, but as I remember, they're all in the very early part of the book, and from there on, it's all good.

    Agree with you about "Black Beauty."  I would not want to read it again.


    She's already explained why the comments are (5.00 / 3) (#69)
    by Angel on Mon May 21, 2012 at 04:47:04 PM EST
    limited to 200.  And she also said earlier today that she is considering contacting the webmaster to see what they can do to establish a forum similar to ones used in the past for other high-traffic topics.  

    Or, (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by NYShooter on Mon May 21, 2012 at 06:59:51 PM EST
    we could run a thread just for you. You'd have no problem filling 200 posts each and every day.

    But, to your point...raise the white flag...I agree with you. But, rather than raising the 200 post maximum (Which she's explained why she can't) if a topic is very topical and has attracted an overwhelming amount of interest, she could simply have Zimmerman "A," Zimmerman "B," etc. That way the conversation flows easily and coherently. When you have 5 threads on one day people jump around and you could write a long, well thought out post but no one will read it because, zoom, everyone's moved on to the next one.

    Way to go, Doug, miracles do happen.


    I like your idea of a thread just for Doug. (5.00 / 3) (#91)
    by Angel on Mon May 21, 2012 at 07:01:40 PM EST
    Works for me.

    Other options: (5.00 / 4) (#98)
    by Anne on Mon May 21, 2012 at 07:26:36 PM EST
    try to accept that Jeralyn isn't here to serve you, and consider reducing your own commenting to allow others to have their say.

    You also might consider a cash donation to assist in the cost of maintaining the site; the enhancements you want Jeralyn to make probably aren't free.


    Schindler's Lisp. (none / 0) (#59)
    by KeysDan on Mon May 21, 2012 at 03:25:37 PM EST
    North Carolina's Amendment One brought out some crazy "holy people."  Pastor Sean Harris of Fayetteville, coached Dads on dealing with four-year old effeminate sons--the second you see your son dropping the limp wrist, you walk over there and crack that wrist.  Give him a good punch.

    Not to be topped, Baptist pastor Charles L. Worley, of Maiden, NC. has a recycled idea.   "I figure a way to get rid of all lesbians and queers,"  he said in his May 13 sermon. "Build a great, big, large fence-150 or 100 miles long--put all the lesbians in there (drop some food down). Do the same thing for the queers and homosexuals and have that fence electrified so they can't get out..And, you know what, in a few years, they'll die out."  

    The Reverend does not say how he will transport these queers, homosexuals and lesbians to the electrified camps, perhaps something sleek and fabulous, after all, boxcars are so 1939.   But this does not seem to be the only practical drawback to the pastor's plan, for to get rid of all queers,  some thought will need to be given to the possibility of more queers being made outside of the electrified camp by heterosexuals.

     Don't know what it is with electrified fences for some wingers--keeping Hispanics from coming crossing the border we recently heard from a Republican presidential candidate, although that idea was coupled with moats.   it seems wise to stay clear of states that end in Carolina.

    Oy, vey! (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Zorba on Mon May 21, 2012 at 04:28:20 PM EST
    What in the holy he!! is the matter with these people???  I am absolutely horrified.  Parents should give their (so-called) "limp wristed" kids a good crack on the wrist or a good punch?  Take those kids away from those parents.  It's child abuse, plain and simple.
    And putting all gays and lesbians in electrified reservations?  Geez louise.  
    And these are some of the people who are most worried about Muslims taking over here and imposing sharia law.  Yet they have no problems with wanting to impose their own, fundamentalist Christian sharia law.  Are we in the 21st Century, or are we back in the Middle Ages?

    Well, speaking for myself only, ... (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon May 21, 2012 at 05:47:06 PM EST
    ... I'm looking forward to the days when we commence to rounding up and burning the witches in our midst.

    Love that bit! (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Zorba on Mon May 21, 2012 at 08:44:08 PM EST
    "Well, she turned me into a newt."
    "A newt?"
    "I got better."

    My kids used to spout large parts of the dialogue from Monty Python and the Holy Grail when they were young.  Made our dinners amusing.  
    What can I say?  Monty Python was a big part of their youthful years, as was Black Adder, for that matter.  British humor is what must have irrevocably warped them.   ;-)


    "And then the oral sex" (none / 0) (#113)
    by me only on Mon May 21, 2012 at 09:18:02 PM EST
    was probably not meant for youngsters.

    Well, they were (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Zorba on Mon May 21, 2012 at 09:46:26 PM EST
    in their late pre-teens/early teens when they saw The Holy Grail.  They had a good grounding in sex education (mostly from their father and me), and any questions they asked were answered.
    You'd be amazed at the questions kids come up with, and a lot of those questions were based upon what they heard at school or on the bus, much of which was based upon erroneous stuff that the other kids spouted.  They asked, we answered.  I'm sure that they then explained things to some of their peers.  Which I'm not sure their peers' parents were all thrilled with.      

    heh. (none / 0) (#114)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon May 21, 2012 at 09:22:05 PM EST
    I'm still waiting for the definitive (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by jondee on Mon May 21, 2012 at 04:53:32 PM EST
    explanation as to why Christians neglecting to stone adulteresses and bypassing all those dietary laws hasn't brought down the wrath of the Big Guy Upstairs..

    I suspect (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by sj on Mon May 21, 2012 at 05:08:29 PM EST
    they haven't completely ruled out the stoning of adulteresses...

    Or just women in general.. (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by jondee on Mon May 21, 2012 at 07:14:15 PM EST
    just to be on the safe side..

    lotta Log Closet Republicans (none / 0) (#73)
    by jondee on Mon May 21, 2012 at 05:04:14 PM EST
    out there: ready to splinter that closet door at the merest provocation of having an actual living breathing gay person somewhere n the vicinity..

    Because the Old Testament (none / 0) (#108)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 21, 2012 at 08:40:28 PM EST
    was fulfilled with the birth, life, death and Resurrection of Christ.

    Now you know.


    But Jesus of Nazareth said nothing ... (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon May 21, 2012 at 10:54:55 PM EST
    ... in any of the gospels, biblical and gnostic, about thr subject of homosexuality. However, he sure had plenty to say about judgmentalism and hypocrisy.

    I'm not going to get into a back and froth (5.00 / 4) (#144)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 22, 2012 at 08:39:54 AM EST
    over what Jesus said or John said or Paul, et al.

    I have stated that I support gay rights and gay marriage.

    I just try and get along and hope that God gives me mercy instead of justice when He sorts all this out.


    But Paul said a lot about it (none / 0) (#140)
    by RickyJ on Tue May 22, 2012 at 07:19:37 AM EST
    For homophobia and misogyny, read Paul's letters.  Romans 1 is typical.  

    Speaking for "Christians", again (none / 0) (#139)
    by Yman on Tue May 22, 2012 at 06:45:40 AM EST
    IOW - "We" realize how horrible the OT is, and therefore it no longer counts.



    Just a reminder to all that on 1/1/12 (1.00 / 1) (#145)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 22, 2012 at 08:43:05 AM EST
    I ceased responding to Yman because I decided he was no longer worth debating with because of his personal attacks, general snarkiness and use of the lie word.

    at your site (none / 0) (#157)
    by jondee on Tue May 22, 2012 at 02:42:08 PM EST
    you say that mosque in New York had it's official opening scheduled to coincide with the anniversery of 9/11..

    Now, was that the truth or "the lie word"?

    I've already got an answer for your standard "I can't answer that question here" response: Gutless


    Come on over the site and quit wasting TL's (none / 0) (#160)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 22, 2012 at 10:59:03 PM EST

    But you won't. You just wanna make claims.

    And since you won't come then we all know who is:




    Why bother? (none / 0) (#165)
    by Yman on Wed May 23, 2012 at 01:07:50 PM EST
    You just delete comments you don't like and leave responses that aren't true.  What's the point?

    BTW - "Gutless"?  From a guy who uses a fake/screen name to post?



    none whatsoever (none / 0) (#167)
    by jondee on Wed May 23, 2012 at 05:37:02 PM EST
    and none of those other things either, as it were.

    And I love how NOW you're concerned about "TL's bandwidth"..

    As you like to say: lol and ;-)


    Like I said (none / 0) (#168)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 23, 2012 at 10:47:31 PM EST
    You be hiding here. We all know it because you show it!

    Now, go make up something else.


    C'mon Jim (none / 0) (#169)
    by NYShooter on Thu May 24, 2012 at 12:14:51 AM EST
    Go to bed now.

    Why would you want to give them the satisfaction of confirming F.D's study results?

    it was a trap!


    Do what?? (none / 0) (#170)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 24, 2012 at 08:19:18 AM EST
    Confirming??? Surely you jest.

    SUO had it right.


    which is why (none / 0) (#158)
    by jondee on Tue May 22, 2012 at 02:44:20 PM EST
    Ann Coulter and others have said Jews still need to be "perfected".

    And after that, Teabagged.


    More gay hate in Mississippi, this time by a (none / 0) (#83)
    by Angel on Mon May 21, 2012 at 06:10:02 PM EST
    My laugh of the day... (none / 0) (#82)
    by Angel on Mon May 21, 2012 at 05:57:01 PM EST
    I'm (none / 0) (#87)
    by lentinel on Mon May 21, 2012 at 06:31:23 PM EST
    sorry for the grads, but since I really came to detest Lyndon, I think he deserved it.

    I used to work for a company (none / 0) (#118)
    by sj on Mon May 21, 2012 at 10:07:30 PM EST
    that dealt with state legislatures and one state had to kill a bill for making that very same mistake.  I'm thinking it may have been Hawaii, in the early 90's?  If so, Don may recall.

    We did, back in 1991. (none / 0) (#121)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:01:55 PM EST
    But we didn't have to kill the bill. We simply amended it simultaneously on the floors of the House and Senate during Final Reading to make the necessary correction.

    We had to extend our 2000 legislative session by two weeks in 1998 because of an accidentally dropped date in the enabling clause of our state budget bill. Rather than say, "This Act shall take effect on July 1, 2000" (our fiscal year begins on July 1), it read "July 2000."


    Okay, memory is decent (none / 0) (#134)
    by sj on Tue May 22, 2012 at 01:38:18 AM EST
    then, if not perfect.  The devil is in the details, isn't he?

    Zimmerman was arrested (none / 0) (#119)
    by Raoul on Mon May 21, 2012 at 10:13:12 PM EST
    According to The Dersh. Answering a question from another thread.  Video of appearance on Huckabee.  Pickup at 5:05 in.


    So sorry I bit on that one (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by ruffian on Tue May 22, 2012 at 06:19:57 AM EST
    Huckabee still gets off more falsehoods in 3 minutes than nearly anyone. An ideal fit for Fox.  And nothing new there about the affidavit that Jeralyn has not already explained a lot better here, without the vagueness and hand waving. And there goes Huckabee predictimagining -  "a very violent reaction" if Zimmerman is not convicted of murder.

    Maybe I missed an answer to my (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by ruffian on Tue May 22, 2012 at 06:23:14 AM EST
    question about when GZ was Mirandized...but I could not make it past 3.5 minutes of blather. I have no patience anymore.

    Yeah, and, I used to like Dershowitz too (none / 0) (#128)
    by NYShooter on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:52:36 PM EST
    Unfortunately he's displaying that smarmy characteristic that has made him an embarrassment more than a source one would look to for fair, scholarly, unbiased legal opinion. The tawdry, slanderous, hysterical description of the prosecutor he spewed makes him toxic, and useless, in my opinion.

    I'm not going to waste a whole lot of time trying to ascertain the actual, legal definition of "arrest." There are enough lawyers on this site that can speak to that if the wish.

    The situation was this: Police responded to a bunch of 911 calls, and when they got to the scene they found a guy with a gun, and a dead body. Not knowing the facts, they did the prudent thing; handcuffed the guy with the gun, and brought him to the station where they could try to straighten things out. To my knowledge, he was not "placed under arrest," nor was he "Marandized." After getting to the station and some discussion, and disagreement, it was determined that they accept Zimmerman's version of events, self defense, and he was released.

    He wasn't "arrested" until 7 weeks later when jurisdiction of the case was removed from the Sanford PD and turned over to the State, and special prosecutor Corey, and, at that time, he was read his Miranda rights. Then, he was officially "under arrest."


    Can I get an Amen? (1.50 / 2) (#143)
    by Rojas on Tue May 22, 2012 at 08:25:27 AM EST
    Who needs some smarmy, New York Jew boy bleatin' on about prosecutor ethics??
    Ya ever get fed up with the snow up there Shooter come on down to the rose capital of Texas. Hell, I reckon we can find a spot on the grand jury for ya.

    New York Jew Boy?? (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by Darby on Tue May 22, 2012 at 09:22:47 AM EST
    Good grief.

    It was snark n/t (none / 0) (#152)
    by Yman on Tue May 22, 2012 at 10:58:46 AM EST
    I don't get it? (none / 0) (#162)
    by Darby on Wed May 23, 2012 at 08:35:48 AM EST
    Does that mean it is okay verbage for this website or what?

    Maybe it is just me since I am the only one who commented. I am not an expert here, but IMO, it comes off as wholly inappropriate.


    I'm fairly certain (none / 0) (#171)
    by Rojas on Thu May 24, 2012 at 08:35:34 AM EST
    you should have your contempt meter recalibratd. Then again, mine has been out of sync for about thirty odd years....

    Air Mask? (none / 0) (#130)
    by nomatter0nevermind on Tue May 22, 2012 at 12:16:03 AM EST
    The EMT says something unintelligible about a mask, suggesting the police put some kind of breathing mask on Martin before the EMTs arrived.

    NY Times

    The audios are on the left of the page, down a little from the top. The EMT interview is fourth and last, entitled:

    George Zimmerman "had cuts and abrasions on his face ... a cut on the back of his head."

    If Martin was still wearing the headphones, they might have been removed because they were in the way of attaching the mask. Later they would be logged in by the same person who logged in the button, who it seems confused 'on person' with 'in pocket'.

    That would explain why the headphones were 'next to' Martin, and why they weren't given an object marker number.

    If Martin lost the headphones at the start of the fight, they likely would have been further away.

    Update (none / 0) (#133)
    by nomatter0nevermind on Tue May 22, 2012 at 01:13:21 AM EST

    The evidence log lists (p. 8) a 'rescue mask' that was 'used on the victim at the scene'.

    Update 2 (none / 0) (#149)
    by nomatter0nevermind on Tue May 22, 2012 at 09:24:29 AM EST
    The first person reported to have seen the ear phones was Sgt. Stacie McCoy, the fourth officer to arrive on the scene. Her report is on p. 17 of the evidence documents.

    'I observed a can of Arizona Iced Tea and a pair of ear phones, in close proximity to the victim's body.'

    Sgt. McCoy also reported providing the 'CPR mask'.

    When McCoy arrived the other officers had already turned Martin's body over, as reported by Ricardo Ayala (p. 14) and Anthony Raimondo (p. 16). The ear phones could have fallen from Martin at that time, if he was wearing them or if they were in his pocket. Unfortunately neither Ayala nor Raimondo mentioned the ear phones in their reports.

    Raimondo did mention feeling the beverage can, 'in the center pocket.' He didn't say what happened to the can. There is no direct account in the reports of how the can came to be on top of the yellow blanket.

    The evidence was collected by Crime Scene Technician Diana Smith. Her report is on pp. 79-80, but only p. 80 is pertinent here.

    'According to officers on the scene, the Arizona tea can was originally located in the front pocket of the victim's jacket.'

    'The victim had $40.15 in US currency, a bag of skittles, red lighter, headphones, photo pin in his pockets or on him.'

    Smith seems to have done all the collecting, but she was assisted in first measuring the items by Leon Ciesla. His report is on pp. 19-25. Only p. 20 is pertinent here.

    The name of Chris Serino is prominent at the top of p. 20. Because of that I incorrectly attributed Ciesla's report to Serino in comments on some recent threads. Mea culpa. I know this is complicated enough without such confusions.

    Serino 'coordinated crime scene processing efforts with' Ciesla and Smith. In his report he described Martin's clothing, but he made no other personal observations of items of evidence at the crime scene. (p. 37)

    Ciesla: 'The victim had $40.15 in US currency, a bag of skittles candy, a red 7-11 red lighter in his pockets, headphones next to him, and a photo pin on his sweatshirt. After making inquiries I was told that the Arizon Ice Tea Can was from inside the victim's Sweatshirt pocket and had come out while first aid was being given.'

    Sgt. Joseph Santiago (p. 16): 'While Martin was in the process of being transferred to the M.E.'s office an inventory was being conducted of Martin's person. I noticed the items collected for evidence were a bag of skittles, an Arizona ice tea can and head phones.'

    There is no object locator number for the ear phones, as there should be if the investigators believed their 'original position' was on the ground. But nowhere in the reports is it explained why the ear phones were believed to have been on Martin's person.

    We may hope that the investigators' testimony will eventually clear this up.


    Erratum (none / 0) (#153)
    by nomatter0nevermind on Tue May 22, 2012 at 11:09:52 AM EST
    Diana Smith's report is on pp. 79-85.

    Could it be mouth to mask? (none / 0) (#154)
    by Mary2012 on Tue May 22, 2012 at 11:54:33 AM EST

    for resuscitation (not sure if I have that spelled correctly) efforts as opposed to mouth to mouth, which is how it used to be done.  I could be wrong but that's what I got from the audio.

    Yes. (none / 0) (#156)
    by nomatter0nevermind on Tue May 22, 2012 at 12:40:15 PM EST
    That's what I was assuming. I think those emergency resuscitation masks come in hand-powered and battery powered versions.

    When Sgt. McCoy arrived, she relieved Ayala on chest compression, and gave the 'CPR mask' to Raimondo 'so that he may provide rescue breaths.'

    It's all in McCoy's report on p. 17.

    Raimondo was doing it the old-fashioned way before McCoy arrived with the mask. (p. 16)