Sunday Night Open Thread

Sending get well wishes to Hillary Clinton, who was admitted to the hospital today with a blood clot.

The night before New Year's Eve: What do you think the biggest changes will be in 2013? What are you hoping for?

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    2013 (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by koshembos on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 08:22:07 PM EST
    The presidential campaign of 2016 will start.

    Obama will cut social security and Medicare and the Democrats will support him.

    OWS will come back.

    Genius (none / 0) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 09:44:51 PM EST
    This is a little weird, and I wouldn't (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by caseyOR on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 09:00:50 PM EST
    admit to it anywhere but here on TL, and it is all a bit woo-woo for me, but I've had a bad feeling about Hillary Clinton for the past few days.

    I get it about the flu and the concussion, but it seemed odd that we had not heard anything from her for weeks. So, I have been wondering if things were more serious than we were being told. Now, it is entirely possible, and I hope this  is the case, that Hillary was acting out of an abundance of caution by actually resting and taking care of herself following her fall. And, really, after all the traveling she has done the past four, well, counting the campaign five, years, who could blame her for grabbing this chance to just kick back and maybe sleep-in?

    Still, I could't shake the feeling that something more serious was wrong. Thank god the doctors found the clot. Hopefully, the drugs will do their job, and she will be fine.

    Not hearing from her for weeks may (none / 0) (#5)
    by Anne on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 09:16:07 PM EST
    also be part of the transition that's coming, and may have been planned in any event.

    That being said, I don't think she's a kick-back-and-sleep-in kind of person - her recent health issues may have put her under orders to limit her appearances and travel, but I'm pretty sure she's been keeping up!

    As for those worried that "blood clot" means "brain," I think it's more likely to be in her lung after that bout with the flu.  I know several people - albeit much older - who developed blood clots in the lung and after being monitored in the hospital, continued on a course of blood thinners until they were completely resolved.

    I think any bouts with blood clots are bound to limit her air travel, though, so if she had to time a health event, she couldn't have done better than to do so at the end of Obama's first term.


    The first 20 or so comments to the (none / 0) (#17)
    by oculus on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 11:47:58 PM EST
    CBS link are despicable re Ms. Clinton.  Which is why I am convinced that, even if healthy, she will not run again for Dem. nomination for Pres.

    Obama gets that all the time (1.00 / 2) (#21)
    by MKS on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 01:16:28 AM EST
    And the comments regarding Obama at this site have not been all that friendly, either.

    Ahhh, but it's not about Obama. (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by nycstray on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 01:27:36 AM EST
    For some people it is (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Yman on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 07:52:12 AM EST
    For some people, it always is.

    Obama gets nothing like that here at TL (5.00 / 8) (#23)
    by shoephone on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 01:30:27 AM EST
    Stop being ridiculous. Obama gets criticism here for his silly bipartisan nonsense, and for policies that are not liberal and will actually hurt, rather than help people.

    Hillary Clinton has been relentlessly accused by Republicans of everything from corruption to murder, going back 20 years now. Have you actually been paying attention to the fact that John Bolton and his wacko GOP cohorts have been accusing her of FAKING HER CONCUSSION to get out of answering questions about Benghazi???

    For f*ck's sake.


    Ditto. (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 01:32:40 AM EST
    Obama has been accused (none / 0) (#37)
    by MKS on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 09:00:03 PM EST
    of all sorts of nonsense.

    And I have read here that Obama has all kinds of personality defects and never wanted to be President....

    Sure Bolton and others have accused Hillary of faking....

    Have you missed the whole birther nonsense?.....Obama has been accused of faking all his college records....Called a liar during the State of the Union and had Gov. Brewer wag her finger in his face....The right wingers have all kinds of things they say about Obama....

    I have read here all about the evils of Rev. Wright....

    The point is that the Right will alway villify Democratic candidates.....It is just standard and should not dissaude Hillary from running.


    Uh, no. Nobody here missed the birther nonsense (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by shoephone on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 09:34:47 PM EST
    And if you cared to be something other than disingenuous, you could easily find all the comments I wrote castigating Trump and his nutty band of birthers.

    Vicious attacks of the type you allude to have been few and far between here (and mostly came from TL's isolated conservatives-pretending-to-be-social-liberals). But if what really bugs you is people pointing out "personality defects" such as Obama continually negotiating against himself and playing both sides against the middle in the service of fantasy bipartisanship that often backfires, well, so be it.

    Just don't pretend that being accused of Vince Foster's murder is quite in the same league as that.

    Furthermore, we all wish the best for Clinton's recovery. That being said, the latest report of where that blood clot is located does not give me comfort.


    That is the only thing that could (none / 0) (#44)
    by MKS on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 09:45:40 PM EST
    prevent her from being President....

    The clot appears to be treatable, has not caused any permanent damage, and will not recur....  


    I hope you're right (none / 0) (#45)
    by shoephone on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 09:49:03 PM EST
    I'm on my way out for the evening. I wish you a happy, healthy new year, despite our differences of opinion.

    The attacks came from (none / 0) (#46)
    by MKS on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 09:49:44 PM EST
    commentators who were supposedly not conservatives....unless you consider jbindc a conservaive....

    A couple of others have not posted here for awhile....I do recall that those of us who opposed such comnents were called "bots."  I do not recall many others coming to Obama's defense against the bilge.....


    And Rezko, and Obama didn't (none / 0) (#38)
    by MKS on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 09:18:44 PM EST
    write his books and Obama has been secretive about his past....all advocated here....No, it has not all been just about policy.

    And take a spin around the Winger blogs and you have all manner of alleged s*xual wrongdoing....by Obama.

    The comments about Hillary from Bolton and Krauthammer and the rest are venomous....but more than that, they are stupid and will only make these guys look even worse....

    I am more worried about Hillary's health, which hopefully should be fine, than what some right wing nutcase says....Those guys always exist and matter less and less over time...


    If you're only worried about Clinton's health, (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by shoephone on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 09:37:49 PM EST
    then why bring up attacks against Obama in the first place?

    Just stop already.


    And the Whitey tape (none / 0) (#39)
    by MKS on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 09:24:37 PM EST
    An oldie but a goodie...Larry Johnson really loved that one.....

    Larry Johnson is a wacko (none / 0) (#42)
    by shoephone on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 09:36:09 PM EST
    who made himself utterly irrelevant. Nobody pays attention to what he writes.

    And I would hope that Hillary (none / 0) (#40)
    by MKS on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 09:30:36 PM EST
    is not at all affected by such idiocy as the "faking" smears; I assume she is much smarter and tougher than that.  And such comments do not sway public opinion against her; if anything, the backlash will diminish her detractors....

    According to the new Army Times (5.00 / 4) (#6)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 09:43:39 PM EST
    301 service members committed suicide in 2011 and more than half of them had sought mental healthcare or inpatient treatment, more than 1/3 of them within 90 days of their deaths.  It questions the competence of existing care for veterans.  Well no shit

    Also reported in the new Army Times, an ingredient in Ecstacy may help treat PTSD.....same old thing that has been used to treat trauma in the past for many....MDMA.  Of course the old schoolers are freaking out about this and losing their very respectable minds because too many rogue chemists can make MDMA.  Can we get serious about all the people that the Bush administration broke in half though please respectable people?

    and, (5.00 / 6) (#8)
    by NYShooter on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 09:54:30 PM EST
    I just read today that the number of Iraq/Afghanistan veterans who are homeless has reached epidemic proportions.

    Let's hear it for Congress as they praise "The Troops."


    It's killing us (none / 0) (#10)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 10:06:43 PM EST
    It is crisis alongside all the others.  This one punches the whole family in the gut though.

    What saved me (5.00 / 5) (#13)
    by NYShooter on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 10:36:09 PM EST
    when I came home after my service ended in the late 60's, was family, and the availability of jobs. Trust me, "going postal," was high on the list of options for me were it not for those two things.

    Today's vets often come home to broken, dysfunctional families, or no families at all. And, we know what the jobs picture is like.

    As a non-believer all I can say is, "God help these kids," our Leaders won't.  


    My niece's career goal after (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by oculus on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 11:49:23 PM EST
    obtaining her Ph.D. in counseling, a five-yr. program, is to work at at V.A., work she already has experience doing.  Commendable.  

    I am so impressed with her choice (none / 0) (#32)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 12:50:37 PM EST
    I just met a Vietnam era vet who has a PhD in psychology.  He is running around fixing misdiagnosed soldiers now who have PTSD and has the clout to do it.

    I complained about the VA misdiagnosing scam, he wasn't so sure it is a scam for everyone.  He says it is hard to tell someone they have PTSD because we don't know what to do about it.  It is easier to tell them they have GAD because supposedly there is something you can do about that though the treatment for GAD will fail if the person is suffering from PTSD.

    We do have something though that has worked for some individuals.  It is related to LSD though so everybody freak out about it.  I watched a documentary on MDMA for trauma and it isn't like you would take it daily though.  You would take it once or twice under supervision, with someone focused on healing your trauma.


    oculus (none / 0) (#33)
    by CoralGables on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 12:59:20 PM EST
    In your many travels have you ever been to Moshi, Tanzania?

    Tonight at midnight marks ... (5.00 / 4) (#31)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 11:11:19 AM EST
    ... the 150th anniversary of the Emancipation Proclamation, arguably the single boldest and most defining stroke of policy development in American history, which came at a time when there was no guarantee that the United States government would even survive the Civil War.

    A century and a half later, it still gives us something to think about.


    2013? (none / 0) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 08:08:01 PM EST
    Right now I'm just hoping we can hold on and make it through the next year.

    Changes? I really can't imagine any right now.

    Happy New Year Jeralyn!

    Auld Lang Syne (none / 0) (#2)
    by P3P3P3P3 on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 08:15:17 PM EST

    What is something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue?


    Senate Filibuster Rules Reform

    Pics of Hillary Clinton through the years: (none / 0) (#9)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 10:01:17 PM EST
    My personal fave, the pic of Clinton with House Judiciary Committee Chairman Peter Rodino's Chief Counsel, John Doar. Clinton played hatchetman to Doar in his successful effort to run the reckless liberal, President Richard Nixon, out of town, making it safe for Democrats to tack firmly to center right, a position they have occupied ever since and which has squeezed Republicans firmly into what would then have been considered the utter freaking nutcase right.

    Ye gods, what is this (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Towanda on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 10:32:46 PM EST
    eulogizing already, with this link?  Do media know something that they're not saying about her health?

    CNN, that oh-so respectable news organization, (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by shoephone on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 11:07:14 PM EST
    is practically salivating at the prospect of being first to have all the obit material in place. Ya know, just in case.

    Reprehensible, to say the least.


    I used to work at CNN (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by kmblue on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 01:47:01 AM EST
    they have obits already cut for major world figures.  The first paragraph can be altered
    (so and so, age 50, died of complications from stupid) and no, I'm not talking about anyone in particular.

    True (none / 0) (#27)
    by CoralGables on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 08:23:31 AM EST
    and local newspapers also have them written and on file in advance for local well-knowns. They also keep photographs to add to the obituary when published.

    In the age of the internet it's a little more risky, as it's easier to toss it online accidentally as Der Spiegel did recently with George Bush (the elder) when someone was supposed to only update the file.


    Of course. (none / 0) (#29)
    by Towanda on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 10:29:04 AM EST
    I used to work in newspapering.  CNN, television, broadcast media in general did not invent "A" matter.

    But that is not the question.

    Why activate the link to the "A" matter now?  Bad form -- unless, again, there is a subtext, i.e., a leak re the location of the clot, the medical odds, etc.


    But it was Nixon's Southern Strategy... (none / 0) (#14)
    by unitron on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 10:38:42 PM EST
    ...that started the ball rolling on the hookup between the GOP and the religious right and all the ensuing nuttery.

    another unanimous Iowa Supreme Court ruling (none / 0) (#11)
    by desmoinesdem on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 10:15:19 PM EST
    ordered a new trial for a man convicted of sexually abusing a toddler.

    Justices said a Muscatine County man who confessed to sexually abusing his girlfriend's 18-month-old son deserves a new trial because a police officer's pledge to get him treatment amounted to an inappropriate promise of leniency and could have sparked a false confession.

    Robert Howard was convicted of child endangerment and second-degree sexual abuse after he took the blame for blood discovered in the child's diaper on Jan. 14, 2010.

    After a doctor determined it was child abuse, a Muscatine police detective questioned Howard about what Howard believed should happen to someone who sodomized a child.

    The detective and Howard both believed that such a person should be given the help he needs to overcome his urges. After discussion about Howard's desire to create a normal family, Howard ultimately confessed.

    From the Des Moines Register editorial board:

    In the Muscatine case, a detective implied during a recorded in-custody interrogation that if Howard told the truth about what happened he could avoid prison and instead would get mental treatment. That, the court said, crossed the line. That is a promise a police detective cannot make, of course, yet it could persuade a vulnerable defendant to lie, if only to avoid a prison sentence.

    This decision follows a similar ruling from the Iowa Supreme Court in May reiterating its rule on such interrogation tactics. In that ruling, the court noted that the courts and legal commentators "have long recognized promises of leniency can induce false confessions leading to wrongful convictions of the innocent."

    Both last week's and the May decisions were written by Justice Thomas Waterman. There were no dissenting opinions in either case.

    The court had opportunities to reach a more popular result in the Muscatine case, including by holding that the confession was a "harmless error" not critical to the conviction. Yet, the court rightly said using the harmless error standard "would undermine the deterrent value of the exclusionary rule for confessions tainted by a promise of leniency."

    Full decision here (pdf), including excerpts from the interrogation.

    And here I thought I remembered (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by oculus on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 11:46:37 PM EST
    law enforcement could make false promises whilst talking to a person under arrest.  SCOTUS.  

    Iowa Rule Differs From Federal Rule (5.00 / 5) (#19)
    by Michael Masinter on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 12:38:04 AM EST
    Oculus correctly remembers the federal rule re voluntariness of confessions; per Arizona v. Fulminante, 499 U.S. 279 (1991) a totality of circumstances test determines whether a police officer's lie or promise of leniency renders a confession involuntary and therefore inadmissible.  But Iowa law is different; Iowa's supreme court repeatedly has held that under Iowa evidentiary law, "a confession can never be received in evidence where the prisoner has been influenced by any threat or promise."

    States are free to afford criminal defendants greater (but not lesser) rights in their courts than those required by the U.S. Constitution as construed by SCOTUS.  Stated differently, federal constitutional law operates as a floor but not a ceiling on procedural and evidentiary safeguards due defendants in state criminal prosecutions. And under Article Three, SCOTUS lacks the power to review a state court's reversal of a conviction when that reversal rests solely on independent state grounds since the reversal presents no question of federal law.


    An ugly case but Kudos, anyway, to Iowa (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 09:01:31 AM EST
    for insisting that their cops stop lying.  

    Such a slippery slope.  Lying to suspects.  Lying to judges to get warrants.  Lying to prosecutors.  Lying on the witness stand.  What's the dif?  Our selfless servants of truth and justice are just greasing the skids, making convictions easy and palatable for everyone involved.

    A number of years ago a Detroit cop was fired after she had posed for Penthouse magazine.  Turned out she wasn't fired for being naked.  She was fired for what she'd said in the interview, that criminal cases turned on which side had the best liars.


    Thank you. (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 12:46:25 AM EST
    My prediction for 2013: (none / 0) (#30)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 10:45:59 AM EST
    Even though the Chicago Bears (10-6) fired head coach Lovey Smith while the Circus Maximus that's the New York Jets (5-11) retained the services of Rex Ryan, neither team will make the playoffs next season.

    Another blow to the Big East's viability ... (none / 0) (#34)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 02:19:33 PM EST
    ... as an NCAA Div. 1 conference is about to fall, as ESPN is reporting that Boise State has decided to renege on its commitment to join that conference in 2013, and will instead remain in the Mountain West conference.

    Good move, Broncos.

    Further, Boise's decision probably means that San Diego State will also withdraw and stay in the Mountain West, since one of the provisions of the Aztecs' agreement is that if the Broncos opt out, the Aztecs can do likewise without incurring a financial penalty.

    With this decision, the Mountain West will have 11 members next football season: Air Force, Boise State, Colorado State, Fresno State, Hawaii, Nevada, New Mexico, San Jose State, UNLV, Utah State and Wyoming. A decision by San Diego State to remain will make it 12 members. And rumor has it that the conference may well pursue recent Big East additions Houston and SMU, too.

    UPDATE: That blood clot ended up ... (none / 0) (#35)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 05:00:01 PM EST
    ... being in a vein located inside Mrs. Clinton's skull, just behind the right ear. She's lucky she didn't have a stroke.

    Best wishes for a full recovery.

    Yes, the site of the clot is worrisome (none / 0) (#36)
    by Towanda on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 05:05:57 PM EST
    and I so wished to hear that it was not there.

    The use of blood thinners also is so worrisome, as two family members in recent years have coped with blood clots, went on thinners, then coped with blood seeping out into the abdominal area, which caused further complications . . . and never got out of the hospital again.

    I am going to hope that those cases were anomalies.


    SITE VIOLATION - SPAM (none / 0) (#48)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 06:37:35 AM EST