Thursday Open Thread

No deal in sight for the Fiscal Cliff, says the AP.

Busy day, here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Went to get an allergy shot today (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 06:20:15 PM EST
    My asthma allergy doctor is a godsend here.  He and his spouse have no children and that has been hard on them.  They attend every convention on asthma and allergy new findings they can though, very up to date and intelligent.  But whenever I would go get an allergy shot they had Fox News on in the waiting area.  Fox News has been on in every healthcare facility I've had to wait in here except for one time.

    Doctor just built himself a new much needed office though and I walk in for the first time today and Headline News is on while I wait.  It was so nice. I guess not everyone around here could bring themselves to brainlessly ignore after the election how broken and jacked up and misinforming Fox News is.

    it is the same way (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Amiss on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 01:36:17 AM EST
    when were in south Georgia. except my doctor said he would retire if Obama won. He.s been in Costa Rica til Christmas Eve.I really hate to see him leave other than his choice of A TV he didn't watch·

    What?? (none / 0) (#78)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 04:07:00 PM EST
    Everyone told us no Doctors would quit.

    What's next? Death Panels are real??

    Ok... Ok... Just joking... (a little bit)



    No, they're not (none / 0) (#85)
    by Yman on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 05:00:54 PM EST
    In fact, they're the 2009 Lie of the Year.

    Redux by JimakaPPJ.


    you can always ask to change the channel. (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by DFLer on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 09:09:04 AM EST
    Or change it yourself. That's what I do. The remo is usually in a desk drawer...near an info/help desk. Just ask. Put it on ESPN...neutral...or MSNBC...not so neutral.

    or ask that it be turned off (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Peter G on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 09:27:02 AM EST
    so people -- some of whom, presumably, are sick and may have headaches or fevers -- can read, rest, talk, or just think, and not be distracted.

    That would be my first choice (none / 0) (#46)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 09:32:18 AM EST
    Unfortunately, I seem to be in the minority on preferring not having a television going non-stop in doctor's offices, treatment rooms and hospitals.

    I feel the same way about restaurants (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Peter G on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 10:29:12 AM EST
    by the way, although they seem to be becoming more and more common.  Basically, I hate "background noise" TV screens, which I find distracting and thus anti-social.

    Me too! (none / 0) (#91)
    by NYShooter on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 06:51:16 PM EST
    you're not even safe from the ear-jarring racket when filling up with gas.

    yeah...esp in waiting rooms...at least turn (none / 0) (#47)
    by DFLer on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 09:40:18 AM EST
    it down

    Ah.....headache (none / 0) (#53)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 10:34:11 AM EST
    That should at least make it something they consider

    Nope, remotes are not where you can get (none / 0) (#52)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 10:33:20 AM EST
    At them.  Not at that doctors and certainly not at Josh's PT and most certainly not on post.  I don't know why Fox News plays in every waiting area in every Army healthcare facility I've ever been in but it does.  Vetwife's (dailykos) husband was arrested in Florida when he was ill last year.  He was in a VA facility and they had Fox News on and they refused his requests so he ripped the TV off the wall.  They had one hell of a time getting his charges dropped but I think they finally managed it.  Everyone was contacting their Senator and Congressperson over it, but it wasn't easy.

    Remember Josh's PT?  He lives to force his mindset on others and is always forcing wingerism on everyone.  Josh got him good though the other day.  The PT said he had gone to see Skyfall and loved it.  We had gone also, and I liked it as well as my husband but Josh didn't really care for it.  So he tells the PT he didn't care for it.  The PT gets huffy and says it is UnAmerican to not like James Bond.  Josh says, "Really?  Because James Bond is British, you understand that right?"  I had to be polite and wait until I got to the car to LMAO.

    The only people who would have even considered changing the channel already did, I have enough problems without spending all day arguing with crazy people.  I am considered a mole here enough as it is.


    Josh is definitely a kid who knows (5.00 / 3) (#54)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 10:39:31 AM EST
    his stuff and is not afraid to speak his mind. Gotta make you proud.

    I would have never thought to respond as he did (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 10:45:43 AM EST
    The guy causes me to feel intimidated all the time.  Josh just gives him hell sometimes and giggles.  Josh is the reincarnation of Yoda in this house.

    MT... why would the charges be dropped?? (none / 0) (#79)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 04:15:27 PM EST
    Ripping government property TV's off walls because you don't like what's on and no one will let you change it sounds like he needs anger management classes.

    Re Josh's PT. I feel the same way re my Grandson's Science teacher who insists that the science on man made global warming is settled because of consensus. I just can't wait for our next meeting. I want to hear her explain what a Scientific Theory is..


    Could you take a video, Jim? (5.00 / 3) (#84)
    by Yman on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 04:56:16 PM EST
    It would be seriously fun to watch you get schooled by her.

    especially (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by NYShooter on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 06:54:20 PM EST
    when the desks and chairs start falling upward.

    Gravity being just a "theory," and all.



    Actually shooter (none / 0) (#93)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 07:41:57 PM EST
    gravity meets all the criteria of a Scientific Theory...

    "A scientific theory is "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment."[1][2] Scientists create scientific theories from hypotheses that have been corroborated through the scientific method, then gather evidence to test their accuracy. As with all forms of scientific knowledge, scientific theories are inductive in nature and do not make apodictic propositions; instead, they aim for predictive and explanatory force.[3][4]"


    lol at you!!!

    BTW - Let me know when man made global warming meets that crieria...


    Well, Golleeee! (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by NYShooter on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 09:28:05 PM EST
    You got me again, Jim. And, I call a  truce to the "lol" battle.



    Harumph, however, your Wiki definition appears to define MMGW to a "T"........ (tee-hee)

    (you did, you know, actually read it before hitting "post" didn't you?)


    To a Tee??? (none / 0) (#106)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 12:12:54 AM EST
    "A scientific theory is "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment."


    Show me that.......

    And yes. Thanks for asking.

    BTW - How's the language barrier coming up there in Music City? Learned how to say, "How'syourmomandall>" yet?


    No, that's... (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by unitron on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 10:56:47 AM EST
    ..."How's your mama and them?"

    Many people are offended by military officers (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 09:55:05 AM EST
    Insisting on this Fox News bull$hit.  I focus on picking my battles but I don't know how much longer I can put up with it being shoved down my throat either.

    He is a Veteran who has PTSD, he gets upset sometimes when people representing his nation tell him to go Phuck himself when he is ill and making a normal easy to comply with request.  That's why Jim.  Turn the channel or turn the thing off for Christ's fricken sake.  Keep it up Jim, we will see how long Fox News is allowed in any military facility if you keep acting so disrespectful to other Vets...the propaganda $hit that it is.


    just saw this (none / 0) (#113)
    by DFLer on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 12:42:36 PM EST
    but all I meant to say was in our hospital waiting rooms, remotes are in the desk, and you can get it if you ask for it...

    Missouri Governor (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by MO Blue on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 06:21:45 PM EST
    Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon (D) opposes legislation that would allow teachers with concealed weapons permits to bring their guns to school, the Kansas City Star reports. The bill was filed in response to the school shooting in Newtown, Conn.
    "More can and should be done to enhance school safety, but this legislation would put our children at risk and limit the ability of local school districts to keep their schools safe," Nixon said. "Putting loaded weapons in classrooms is quite simply the wrong approach to a serious issue that demands careful analysis and thoughtful solutions."

    Makes me proud to be from Missouri today. (none / 0) (#15)
    by mogal on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 07:00:26 PM EST
    Yep (none / 0) (#16)
    by MO Blue on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 07:11:39 PM EST
    Hopefully Nixon wins on this issue. The Republicans having veto proof majorities in state Legislature can cause havoc in our state on this and many other issues.

    The (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by lentinel on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 08:03:03 PM EST
    unemployed are among the first who will be thrown over the cliff - thanks to an uncaring congress and a powerless chief executive. (I say "powerless" to be charitable.)

    Meanwhile, we continue to spend two hundred and eighty nine million dollars a day on the war in Afghanistan.

    And, a few weeks ago, The United States assured Pakistan of an early release of $600 million Coalition Support Fund (CSF) arrears, increasing OPIC support for projects in Pakistan from $100 million to $1 billion.

    But when it comes to the poor, the homeless, the unemployed, and those battered by merciless natural disasters - they just can't seem to find the funds.

    US Army brigade heading to 35 African nations (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by MO Blue on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 08:21:15 PM EST
    to beef up anti-terror training.

    WASHINGTON -- A U.S. Army brigade will begin sending small teams into as many as 35 African nations early next year, part of an intensifying Pentagon effort to train countries to battle extremists and give the U.S. a ready and trained force to dispatch to Africa if crises requiring the U.S. military emerge.

    The teams will be limited to training and equipping efforts, and will not be permitted to conduct military operations without specific, additional approvals from the secretary of defense. link

    Oh... (none / 0) (#30)
    by lentinel on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 09:48:17 PM EST

    What are we doing?
    What is happening to us?


    "will not be permitted to conduct... (none / 0) (#38)
    by unitron on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 07:37:51 AM EST
    ...military operations..." until someone starts shooting at them, or otherwise inflicts fatalities, and then it'll be "...so they will not have died in vain..." and we're off to the races.

    Wanna get real sick (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by Dadler on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 09:55:41 PM EST
    WND column suggests Sandy Hook ... (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Yman on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 09:24:32 PM EST
    ... shootings were staged in order to pass the UN Arms Trade Treaty and gun control legislation:


      The Sandy Hook shooting occurred just days after Sen. Rand Paul sent out an alert that the U.N. was set to pass the final version of the Small Arms Treaty, supported by Obama the day after election.

        Part of the treaty bans the trade, sale and ownership of all semi-automatic weapons ... like the one Adam Lanza used to kill 20 children and 6 adults.

        The "Batman shooting" in Aurora, Colo., also happened to coincide with the same time as negotiations of the U.N. Small Arms Treaty.

        The timing is impeccable.

    Oh, ... and any demand for new control laws is akin to Adolf Hitler "attacking his own Reichstag to start a world war"

    These people are nut$ ...

    You mean... (none / 0) (#39)
    by unitron on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 07:43:28 AM EST
    ...We're Nuts Daily?

    Hey, somebody's got to make the National Enquirer look respectable.


    Senate Approves Warrantless Spy Powers (5.00 / 4) (#56)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 11:20:19 AM EST
    [Democratic] [Non-Dubya Era] Senate Approves Warrantless Electronic Spy Powers

    The National Security Agency told lawmakers that it would be a violation of Americans' privacy to disclose how the measure is being used in practice.

    An irony-meltdown moment.

    Where Do I Live ? (5.00 / 3) (#58)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 11:48:22 AM EST
    The National Security Agency told lawmakers that it would be a violation of Americans' privacy to disclose how the measure is being used in practice.

    Congress can't figure out how to pay the bills or tax rich people, but they sure as hell came together to spy on it's own citizens.  This is a GD shame started by Bush and Co and eagerly continued with Obama Inc.

    In the end, the identical package the House passed 301-118 swept through the Senate on a 73-23 vote.

    If I had time I would love to go back and quote the grandstanding pricks on the left who were appalled by FISA, who seem perfectly content with it now.


    lol. I was one of those grandstanding p[osters] (none / 0) (#59)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 12:00:35 PM EST
    At the same time, I was pretty sure that the next prez wouldn't be tossing back any of those cool new presidential superpowers.

    Why, you live in Texas, ... (none / 0) (#73)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 03:01:00 PM EST
    Scott: "Where do I live ?"

    ... home of Gov. Rick "Oops!" Perry, and the state which recently elected to the U.S. Senate someone who's just this side of certifiable, and who apparently "wants to build a wall the length of the Texas-Mexico border and abolish three federal departments."


    Priceless: Feinstein joined [at the NSA] with GOP (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 02:27:43 PM EST
    stalwart, Saxby Chambliss, to fulfill Obama's demand for renewed warrantless eavesdropping.

    Some of you may remember that Saxby Chambliss defeated the decorated Vietnam vet, Democrat Max Cleland, whose legs were literally blown off in Vietnam, with the aid of some viciously misleading television ads which both denigrated and questioned Cleland's patriotism.

    To this day, many people identify mid-2008 as the time they realized what type of politician Barack Obama actually is. Six months before, when seeking the Democratic nomination, then-Sen. Obama unambiguously vowed that he would filibuster "any bill" that retroactively immunized the telecom industry for having participated in the illegal Bush NSA warrantless eavesdropping program.

    But in July 2008, once he had secured the nomination, a bill came before the Senate that did exactly that - the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 - and Obama not only failed to filibuster as promised, but far worse, he voted against the filibuster brought by other Senators, and then voted in favor of enacting the bill itself.



    I don't expect anything less from DiFi - (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by Anne on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 03:20:33 PM EST
    she's proven time and again that if there's a choice between power and transparency, between secrecy and accountability, she'd going with power and secrecy.

    The real problem on this issue is Obama, whose bidding Feinstein was doing.

    Also from that Greenwald article:

    Just four or five years ago, objections to warrantless eavesdropping were a prime grievance of Democrats against Bush. The controversies that arose from it were protracted, intense, and often ugly. Progressives loved to depict themselves as stalwartly opposing right-wing radicalism in defense of Our Values and the Constitution.

    Fast forward to 2012 and all of that, literally, has changed. Now it's a Democratic President demanding reform-free renewal of his warrantless eavesdropping powers. He joins with the Republican Party to codify them. A beloved Democratic Senator from a solidly blue state leads the fear-mongering campaign and Terrorist-enabling slurs against anyone who opposes it. And it now all happens with virtually no media attention or controversy because the two parties collaborate so harmoniously to make it happen. And thus does a core guarantee of the founding - the search warrant requirement of the Fourth Amendment - blissfully disappear into nothingness.

    Here we find yet again a defining attribute of the Obama legacy: the transformation of what was until recently a symbol of right-wing radicalism - warrantless eavesdropping - into meekly accepted bipartisan consensus. But it's not just the policies that are so transformed but the mentality and rhetoric that accompanies them: anyone who stands in the way of the US Government's demands for unaccountable, secret power is helping the Terrorists. "The administration has decided the program should be classified", decreed Feinstein, and that is that.

    Really just makes me ill to think that we did have the choice to reject the policies of Bush/Cheney, but Democrats decided that if Obama was embracing them, they were okay with that.


    Law Suit Acting Lessons Needed (none / 0) (#1)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 03:02:17 PM EST
    This is probably the most pitiful acting I have seen from ordinary folks.

    Father buys reconditioned Nintendo DS, boy opens it on Christmas on to find pornography.

    This made me laugh really hard, it not that I think it's funny the kid saw pornography that was from Santa, it's the 'distress' the entire family had over said images.  Like the kid is going to need years of therapy and a whole lot of cash to get right.  And the reporter who seems to buy the entire act.

    This shouldn't even be lawsuit material. (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by MyLeftMind on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 06:29:14 PM EST
    How about a little parental responsibility. Buying a used electronic device and handing it to his kid without bothering to check what's on it should not be rewarded by financial gain.

    I (none / 0) (#3)
    by lentinel on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 03:27:53 PM EST
    respectfully disagree with you.

    As I father, I identify with that father.
    When I buy a gift for my child, I put a lot of thought and care into it. I believe that father did also.

    He had a right to believe that the Nintendo that he bought for his son would be without input from an unexpected source. Especially a source that is emotionally charged.

    I felt his tears were genuine and I identified with his emotion.


    If he bought a new Nintendo... (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 09:10:36 AM EST
    he'd have a reason to be upset...but when you buy used...umm, you get used.

    If the father can't handle the distress of this much ado about nothing, I don't see how he's gonna make it to see his child graduate high school.  Wait till his kid gets a load of what Google can show you!


    I (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by lentinel on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 11:45:44 AM EST
    have to disagree with you too.

    "Reconditioned" is not the same as "used" in my book.

    There is an implicit or explicit guarantee that something has been brought back to its original factory specifications when you buy something that has been factory reconditioned.

    It is not the same as buying something that is sold as, "used" or "as is".

    At least - that has been my experience.


    Fair enough... (none / 0) (#61)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 12:30:07 PM EST
    still say it's pretty silly...people got real problems.

    Art education would cure tons (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by jondee on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 12:49:08 PM EST
    of this distinctly American hysteria about nekkidness -- about which the adults seem to be much more hysterical (driven towards and repelled by) than kids are..

    Imo, if kids in this country were brought up seeing and intelligently discussing, in their historical-cultural contexts, Hindu temple motifs and Venus de Milo, imo, alot of the sexual nuttiness here would slowly dissipate..

    As it is, alot of American parents run back and forth between trying to "protect the children" and looking up Danish campfire girls on the internet..


    Exactly... (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 01:28:25 PM EST
    ...I doubt dad would be in tears if the same images were discovered from his own stash.  And the thought of a grown @ss man crying because his kid saw pornography, well... that is ridiculous.

    That family must not know about the internet, because it is simply impossible to block and thinking your kid hasn't seen it more than a bit naive.


    Well, I don't know that it's naive (none / 0) (#66)
    by Reconstructionist on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 01:34:40 PM EST
     to think a 5 year old has not seen porn on the internet. Once puberty has hit sure because there is a strong prbability he has actively looked for it.

      Were I representing GAMESTOP I'd suggest it offer to pay for counseling for the kid. Tell Dad you select the therapist and tell him to send us the bills. If you're truly concerned about the boy's psyche this should address your concerns as well as is prractically possible. If you want money, we'll see you in court.


    OK.. (none / 0) (#89)
    by lentinel on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 05:55:29 PM EST
    Would you feel any differently if the images were of violence?
    People getting blown up - blood everywhere...

    Ironic - violence is pretty much all you'll (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 12:52:56 PM EST
    find on a "properly operating" video game platform.

    But if this "reconditioned" ... (none / 0) (#65)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 01:33:01 PM EST
    ... Nintendo DS wasn't "used," how would pornography ever have ended up there in the first place? Here's how I'd define it: while all reconditioned units are used items, not all used items are reconditioned units.

    Thus, "factory reconditioned" and "as is" can be considered as two subclassifications of "used." Then, I can agree with you that there is an implicit promise that "reconditioned" means that the unit / item has been restored to its original factory specifications. And were it my kids who had inadvertantly received the advanced education in human anatomy and sexuality, I'd be angry with the manufacturer, too.

    But that said, human beings do sometimes make mistakes, and a manufacturer's given protocols for the reconditioning of electronic devices can sometimes be accidentally sortcircuited, no pun intended. In this particular instance, I think one can safely assume that nobody was hurt or killed, and that the only real damage incurred was probably the personal mortification felt by the parents, who were perhaps compelled to answer some awkward questions from their own children.

    And speaking for myself only, I'd like to think that a subsequent lawsuit to extract a large cash settlement from someone with deep pockets, i.e., SONY, is not exactly the sort of teachable moment I'd want to provide to my own children in the aftermath of any such embarrassment.



    All (none / 0) (#88)
    by lentinel on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 05:53:30 PM EST
    I know is, like MilitaryTracy says above, I would have been so angry I would have spit fire.

    Suing the b@stards would be the least I would want to do to them.


    I'm with you (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 09:20:31 AM EST
    If you are buying reconditioned you probably can't afford new either.  Every purchase for some is precious, and trying to give your children some things that others gain so easily is very difficult for some of us out there.

    If this had happened to our son, it wouldn't be tears from my spouse either.....he'd be so flaming pissed off it isn't funny.  I wouldn't want to deal with him, please go see the lawer honey.  His sister would be the same way and his whole family would be too, they think that their money is worth good service and things sold for children should not include pron.  I've learned a few things from them too, like how not to be an all day sucker :)


    From whom did he buy it? (none / 0) (#35)
    by unitron on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 07:13:25 AM EST
    And who did the "reconditioning"?

    I'd like to see what the images were myself (none / 0) (#75)
    by Angel on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 03:34:09 PM EST
    just to have a better understanding of what exactly the kid saw, but I have to agree with you Scott, the father's 'distress' seems a little much, especially since they were just tiny photos and not a streaming movie.

    Bowl games (none / 0) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 03:24:37 PM EST
    Baylor (+3) over UCLA (5 units) and Duke (+10) over Cincy.

    Poppy Bush not doing too well. In a Houston (none / 0) (#4)
    by Angel on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 03:56:53 PM EST
    hospital with fever.  Daughter has flown in from Maryland, James Baker has visited.  They must be worried he won't make it.

    Agree (none / 0) (#5)
    by shoephone on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 04:02:32 PM EST
    Didn't seem like a good sign yesterday with the report that his fever had gone up.

    Agree (none / 0) (#6)
    by MO Blue on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 04:06:51 PM EST
    He was moved ICU yesterday.

    I Felt Nothing For the Family... (none / 0) (#7)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 04:28:57 PM EST
    ...when this was announced, but then like 3 days later, they ran a special about their daughter Robin who died of leukemia at 3 and it broke my heart.

    Here's the clip.


    I know... (none / 0) (#26)
    by Amiss on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 09:13:46 PM EST
    I want to believe that we all have good and bad within us. What we do with it and if which is nurtured is on "man" I truly believe that it takes a village to raise a child. This seems to only be a tiny part how we turn out as adults I only feel that all of our surroundings affect us and how we react with the rest of the world.
    I lost my father when I was11. My Mother never remarried and I lost her when I was 43.
    I am rambling and wondered Donald's what his thoughts were on the late Senator's wishes were not followed as he wished.

    Bottom line: He's old. (none / 0) (#8)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 05:31:06 PM EST
    George H.W. Bush is the late Sen. Dan Inouye's age of 88. At some point, while the mind might remain as sharp as a pin, the body is just worn out. I hope that they keep him comfortable, and that family members respect his wishes and / or follow his instructions regarding end-of-life care, if it's actually come to that.

    There will come a time in most everyone's life when we will need to accept the inevitable and allow a loved one to depart this world in dignity and peace. While death is never easy, it also doesn't have to be unnecessarily difficult.

    (And if you haven't given much thought regarding your personal wishes about your own end-of-life care, perhaps you should. I think it's far better to make those decisions when you're of sound mind and body, and not leave such things to chance and circumstance -- i.e., a family member who has trouble letting go, and has the legal standing and capacity to impede your journey.)



    And be sure to state (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Towanda on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 09:20:51 PM EST
    which sort of hospital to which you ought not be taken or from which to be transferred.

    We could not get a Catholic hospital to respect a "living will."


    I thought I remembered from law school (none / 0) (#45)
    by Peter G on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 09:32:16 AM EST
    that any medical treatment imposed on a person without the informed consent of the patient (or of their authorized power-of-attorney, when the patient is no longer able) is legally considered an assault.  I'm surprised, honestly, that staff at a Catholic hospital can say they will impose unwanted "treatment" on a patient, to comply with the religious beliefs of the hospital's owners, in violation of generally applicable law.

    Oh, yes, the lawyers in the family (none / 0) (#71)
    by Towanda on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 02:50:40 PM EST
    and the physician in the family said that the hospital was acting illegally.  

    I was not surprised, of course, because I was raised Catholic and saw a lot of that thinking that the pesky laws of this land do not matter a whit.

    So, this was just a word of advice from experience, not from the law books.  


    Donald, I agree with you (none / 0) (#12)
    by Zorba on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 06:22:56 PM EST
    about making our wishes known about end-of-life care.  It is hard to do when you are (relatively) healthy and such, but Mr. Zorba and I long ago signed our medical powers-of-attorney, advance-care directives, living wills, etc., and made our wishes known to our children.
    This is so difficult to do, but both Mr. Zorba and I have been through this with our parents.

    After watching the horror show of (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by MO Blue on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 06:31:06 PM EST
    Terri Schiavo, I made sure all of the necessary paperwork was complete and sat down with my children to make my wishes clear.

    I hope everyone makes their wishes known one way or another.


    Just one word of caution: (5.00 / 5) (#17)
    by NYShooter on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 07:23:25 PM EST
    It is imperative that whomever you designate with your end-of-life decisions exercises good judgment regarding the actual situation at hand and not simply take the DNR (do not resuscitate) document 100% literally.

    From a personal, admittedly anecdotal, experience:

    I was the designated caregiver for my father-in-law when he suffered what seemed to be an end-of-life medical crisis. While at the hospital I inadvertently overheard the conversation the just coming on duty Physician's assistant was having with the station nurse. The PA, after ascertaining the existence of a valid DNR authorization, determined that the correct action was to "pull the plug." Having been closely involved with my father-in-laws medical situation I felt that the PA wasn't fully comprised of the facts. A simple procedure reducing the patient's temperature would permit another simple procedure which would bring his respiration back to normal. So, I overruled the DNR, the procedures were performed, and he lived another four relatively happy and healthy years.

    My point is simply this: You don't have to be a doctor to have good judgment and common sense. Being the responsible party means putting yourself in the patient's shoes, doing what you believe he/she would want done, given the circumstances. You have to decide what is, or isn't, "heroic efforts." Most of all, when it comes to making the ultimate decision make sure you have ALL the facts, and that the experts and you are in agreement.


    Good advise (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by MO Blue on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 07:25:47 PM EST
    Do they let the janitor pull the plug as well... (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by unitron on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 07:26:18 AM EST
    ...in case he needs the outlet for the floor buffer?

    Observing a DNR is one thing, but letting someone who isn't even a licensed physician actually "pull the plug" is something entirely else.

    Of course I can't help being reminded of the Bill Cosby routine where he calls out to a white coated orderly, "Hey you, almost a doctor."


    Good point, shooter (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 04:00:27 PM EST
    Never trust A doctor. Few years ago my spouse came down with bacterial pneumonia. None of antibiotics worked. They had to clean her lungs out and then they couldn't get her breathing on her own. After about 10 days on a ventilator the specialist told me he was sending her down to the "holding" floor and I needed to see the Patient Rep about the DNR.

    Who else has decided this? I asked.

    I did. He replied.

    Then I want a second opinion.

    Not needed he said.

    The hell you say and get me your boss.

    Result: They gave her some blood and got her back breathing. Complete recovery, although a long and difficult one.

    Needless to say his name is on the records as not being allowed near my wife, or me.



    Doctors are human, and ... (none / 0) (#87)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 05:29:43 PM EST
    ... human judgment is hardly infallible. You had every right to request a second opinion, and that doctor was wrong to assume that his word should be taken as final.

    Further, any physician worth his or her credentials would have had no problem honoring your request, and would have worked diligently to ensure that such a second professional opinion was quickly secured in a timely manner for your wife's benefit.


    Good for you, Jim (none / 0) (#90)
    by NYShooter on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 06:44:17 PM EST
    and, that's why I said in my post that before the final decision is made EVERYONE should be in agreement.

    And, as far as second opinions go, I won't bore you with the details of my life experiences with second opinions except to say that having a second opinion, and a possible second approach to the illness involved, has been amazing....and rewarding.


    I second this (none / 0) (#95)
    by Towanda on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 08:41:52 PM EST
    after several similar experiences.

    For one thing, I still have my innards, more than two decades after being told of dire need to have a hysterectomy.  The sad history of hundreds of thousands of unnecessary hysterectomies alone ought to suggest the need for second opinions.

    (Yes, I switched to a woman ob/gyn, who was aghast at the diagnosis by the previous doctor, considering my age and much more.)


    Smart move (none / 0) (#96)
    by shoephone on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 08:51:19 PM EST
    I don't know any national stats on it, but I don't personally know anyone who still goes to a male gynecologist. I switched to a female ob/gyn 35 years ago, and have never regretted that choice. (The male ob/gyn I had originally gone to was so physically rough with his patients that he was quietly "let go" by the clinic.)

    My personal physician is female, and ... (none / 0) (#98)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 09:33:06 PM EST
    ... that's by choice. Speaking as a three-time cancer survivor, and at the possible risk of stereotyping, I've found that female physicians generally flash less ego, show more empathy, genuinely listen to me, and aren't afraid to consult with other colleagues when they don't have or know the answers.

    That's how I feel as well, but (none / 0) (#99)
    by shoephone on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 09:36:18 PM EST
    I know it's personal and subjective. I believe everyone should make their own choice, based on their comfort level.

    We also switched to a female (none / 0) (#107)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 12:23:10 AM EST
    PCP when we moved back.

    A very good decision.

    I agree. They listen and they discuss.

    Not so much with males. Nature of the beast, I guess.


    I have every confidence that ... (none / 0) (#21)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 07:39:38 PM EST
    ... your children and grandchildren will no doubt come to appreciate your advanced planning, and will be grateful for having taken such painful matters out of their hands and reserving such decision making for yourselves.



    I, too feel one should make as many decisions (none / 0) (#29)
    by Amiss on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 09:32:45 PM EST
    as possible ahead of time. Some things that I wanted for my Grandson and Granddaughter before an angioplasty several years ago. Nothing but routine, my Vascular guy felt at the time. I had a weird feeling  and 2 months ahead (using Christmas as an excuse) I gave my daughter, granddaughter and grandson some very nice pieces that they knew had been passed down through generations. I gave the "proper" explanations of "you will get much more use than I", "i think you are finally old enough" etc.
    2 months later I had a severe deadly stroke on the table during " my run of the mill procedure".

    Runningn the mouth again.


    Donald, I just read this piece in WaPo (none / 0) (#9)
    by caseyOR on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 05:46:34 PM EST
    written by someone who thinks that Abercrombie appointing Schatz to the senate is a big gamble for the governor, one that could well come back and bite him.

    Is Abercrombie really so unpopular in Hawaii already? Is not going with the supposed Inouye-chosen successor really such a political shocker?

    Or is this writer just blowing smoke?

    What is happening out there in the islands?

    I wouldn't put too much stock in this. (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 07:35:46 PM EST
    What I told you yesterday still stands. As I said, now that it's over, I can be both forthright and blunt regarding the internal dynamics which have been at play over the last two years.

    In my honest opinion, Sen. Inouye's "Last wish" that he be allowed to choose his own successor was wholly unreasonable and inappropriate request, because the Hawaii state constitution clearly stipulates the process by which that successor is to be chosen. And further, I'm will to offer better than even odds that his chief of staff, Jennifer Sabas, put her terminally ill boss up to it, as a means of ensuring her own continued relevance in local Democratic Party politics.

    The curious timing of Inouye's "last wish," delivered as it was to Gov. Abercrombie's office at the State Capitol a mere five hours before the senator's death, was in my opinion hardly coincidental and looks awfully suspect.

    Further, that request put Abercrombie is a horribly difficult position from a public standpoint. Were he to bypass constitutional protocol and accede to that request posthumously, he would have undermined his own constitutional authority which reserved for him that final decision, and such an action would have rendered our committee's six-hour-long exercise in democracy yesterday to be nothing more than a long-winded exercise in political kabuki.

    Reading that article from the Washington Post, it would not surprise me in the slightest if Aaron Blake was a personal acquaintance of Jennifer Sabas. Such "analysis" reads to me as far less an attempt to inform people, and more like part of an effort to undermine public confidence in Abercrombie from afar by certain elements within the party, i.e., Sen. Inouye's staff, most of whom are now without a job.

    (Not coincidentally, we've also seen similar pieces today in the Los Angeles Times and Chicago Tribune, lamenting Abercrombie's "failure" to honor the late senator's memory by granting his final wish.)

    For her part yesterday, Sabas issued a really pithy press release immediately after Brian Schatz was chosen as Inouye's successor, which stated that Inouye's staff was "extremely disappointed that Gov. Neil Abercrombie chose not to honor the senator's last wish that U.S. Rep. Colleen Hanabusa replace him in the chamber." Yeah, right, like that was their phuquing call in the first place.

    And here's what really rubs me the wrong way here. Like Sen. Inouye, Neil Abercrombie has also been a good and faithful public servant for over 40 years in his own right, and he clearly deserved better than this high-handed political attempt to manipulate events by Sen. Inouye's staff. At the very least, he most certainly didn't deserve to be put on the spot like that with so bald and naked a power play.

    Well, as the governor just demonstrated, he's the one who's now calling the shots in the Hawaii Democratic Party and the State of Hawaii, not Sen. Inouye or his staff. The senator has gone to his reward, and Ms. Sabas, et al., are probably gone as well. And again, as I said yesterday, I consider the latter's departure to be a good thing.

    The King is dead. Long live the King.



    I agree with your call (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by ruffian on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 04:31:38 PM EST
    As good a man as Sen Inouye was, his wishes as to his successor can be taken into consideration, but IMO it is not disrespectful to his memory to go another way. It sounds like the selection was a consensus choice.

    Mahalo nui loa for your understanding. (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 04:54:34 PM EST
    Personally, I'm very sorry that Sen. Inouye's final wishes had to be repudiated so publicly as they were. But without a doubt, the actions of his chief of staff did far more harm than good to Congresswoman Hanabusa's chances.

    For my part, I'm comfortable with my own vote on Wednesday, in which I listed Brian Schatz as my first choice as Inouye's successor with the congresswoman second, and I'd frankly vote the exact same way again if asked again.



    Hmmmm, you gave him all that honor (1.50 / 2) (#77)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 04:03:56 PM EST
    ...and rightfully so... for his service but you don't want to honor his request.

    Poor guy probably thought all that work was worth something... But then what had he done for you lately?


    ... about Sen. Inouye, whose political orientation was well to the left of yours. Why would you even say something like that, if not to pick a fight with me?

    Sen. Inouye's request, conveyed publicly as his "last wish," was wholly inappropriate. While the senator had every right to make his wishes known to Gov. Abercrombie regarding who might succeed him, he should have communicated those thoughts well prior to the moment his chief of staff actually did so, which was less than five hours before he died.

    Further, the simultaneous release of his letter to the media by that same chief of staff, which had the effect of putting Gov. Abercrombie immediately on the spot before the entire nation, was the sort of crass political ploy I'd frankly expect from some low-brow Tammany Hall huckster, and not from the office of someone of Inouye's pedigree and stature.

    Jennifer Sabas's behavior over these last two weeks was both demeaning to Gov. Abercrombie and unbecoming of her own late boss, and served only to muddy Sen. Inouye's political legacy in the eyes of many of his own fellow Hawaii Democrats.



    Actually Donald you seem to forget (none / 0) (#94)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 08:03:42 PM EST
    that I am not a "conservative" but what use to be called a liberal. You know, equal rights, gay marriage, drug law reform... Now, since I find the current Demos stand on foreign policy and much of its national policy... high energy costs leads the way... to be repugnant I refer to myself as a "Social Liberal."

    It does not set well with either side, or at least those who demand 100% obedience.

    You see, I grew up so poor that when my mom threw a chicken bone out the back door the dog would signal for a fair catch... ;-) (drum roll, please...)

    My parents were sharecroppers. I know what a "company store" looks like and how it operates. I watched my dad and uncles come back from WWII and use government funded training to move up in the world and I watched them unionize the local Brown Shoe company with all the drama, threats and some violence that goes with those... And I watched him toss a Deputy Sheriff, a supposed friend, out of our home because the DS wouldn't quit using the N word.. I've carried a union card...

    So don't lecture me about social things. I've lived a bunch of them. Mostly likely far more than you.

    But to return to the Senator.

    He was a man I admired. I didn't know a lot about him but over the years I read somewhat and since I spent a lot of time in Hawaii in the 70's through 90's I picked up from friends about how admired he was.

    So it seems to me that a man who gave as much as he gave to his Party, his state and his country should have his request honored.

    But that's just me. I don't ask people who have done a lot, "What have you done for me lately?"

    Now, you all be good, now! Ya hear!


    "Not a conservative" (5.00 / 3) (#100)
    by Yman on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 09:53:53 PM EST
    Right, Jim.  because you take reasonable positions on a very few issues of little or no importance to you, you think that makes you an "independent".


    Tell us again, how many times have you posted about those issues on your blog?  There are many posts supporting winger positions - denying global warming, Islamaphobia, "Shariah law is coming!", etc., but nothing about "equal rights", reforming drug laws, or supporting gay marriage.

    Go figure.

    How many Democrats have you voted for in the past 25 years?

    "Social liberal", ... "independent", ...



    Jim, you don't live here, and ... (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 10:04:33 PM EST
    ... you are clearly not privy to the internal dynamics of Hawaii politics as I am.

    Nobody is saying that Sen. Inouye was not a good man and a genuine hero. But honestly, the same cannot be said for his chief of staff, whose haughty, imperious and manipulative behavior toward others -- even other elected officials in Hawaii and D.C. -- has long rankled a lot of us. You probably didn't even know who she was, while the rest of us out here have had to put up with her for years.

    Given that Sen. Inouye's "last wish" arrives at Gov. Abercrombie's office mere hours before he expired, and the fact that the date of his lettter was also the day of his death, I had very real concerns as a member of the party's central committee, regarding whether the senator was of sound mind and body when that letter was written and signed.

    Further, I was not the only Democrat on that committee this past Wednesday who expressed serious reservations about the decision by Inouye's chief of staff to release to the national media the contents of that supposedly personal letter to the governor, before the governor himself even got a chance to read it.

    Many of us have since concluded that she was attempting to manipulate public opinion as a means to compel Gov. Abercrombie to appoint Congresswoman Hanabusa to the Senate. And in so doing, she hurt rather than helped Hanabusa's cause.

    Why can't you try to understand what we've been having to deal with these last few days, and not be so damned contrary all the time?


    Donald, no, I don't live there (1.00 / 1) (#104)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 11:59:47 PM EST
    but I haven't noticed any lack of you opining on things on the mainland side....

    And to me, no matter how terrible his chief of staff is, then his wishes should be what is done.

    And the real puzzle to me is your apparent problem with him not knowing when he was going to die...

    And contrary?? Heavens forbid! I know dealing with politics is awfully stressful....


    You all come back now! Ya hear!


    Well (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by sj on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 02:09:12 AM EST
    then I guess it's a good thing you aren't the governing body.  Matters shouldn't be handled capriciously. The caprice of even someone so distinguished should not be the deciding factor.  A recommendation?  Sure.  The final say, no.

    True enough (none / 0) (#109)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 09:14:58 AM EST
    I guess I am just too loyal and believe too much that unless a distinguished person has shown he doesn't deserve a request I will give it to s/him.

    But that doesn't appear to be the case here. The problem appears to be that the locals highly dislike the Chief of Staff.

    Like I said. Honor the request. A primary will come and then the people, not Demo insiders, can speak.


    Why do you think Hanabusa was (none / 0) (#102)
    by caseyOR on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 11:04:36 PM EST
    Inouye's pick (or Sabas' pick)? Did Inouye have a particularly close relationship with Hanabusa?

    What would have been the payoff for Sabas if Hanabusa went to the senate?

    Based on what you've said, Donald, it sounds like Sabas overplayed her hand and lost big. It would be a shame, though, if Hanabusa, who is as far as I can tell is a good liberal Congresswoman, was somehow harmed by this whole matter.


    Tall Cotton is about as (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by jondee on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 02:28:16 PM EST
    "100% obedient" as I've ever seen a personal blog be..

    It reads like it was written by some eager-to-please, eavesdropping janitor who works at the Heritage Foundation..


    That's not how it works anywhere, Jim. (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by caseyOR on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 11:12:59 PM EST
    An outgoing Senator is never the person who is tasked with choosing the replacement Senator. The departing senator may offer an opinion or a recommendation, but in states like Hawaii where a replacement is appointed, that call is the governor's. In other states, like Massachusetts, a special election is mandated to fill out a term.

    I don't see Abercrombie's decision as in any way disrespectful to Inouye. The governor made the decision he thinks is best for the people of Hawaii. That is his job. He took his job seriously and made his best decision.

    I find ridiculous this idea that Abercrombie somehow dissed the late senator by fulfilling one of his responsibilities as governor.


    Yeah Casey (none / 0) (#105)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 12:05:00 AM EST
    I understand the system.

    My point is that I think it is disrespectful based on who this Senator was. He wasn't just your average Senator.

    The governor could have easily said he was following Inouye's request and let the next primary election settle the issue.


    So, I'm guessing your new Senator will (none / 0) (#25)
    by caseyOR on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 08:35:31 PM EST
    not be hiring Sen.Inouye's old staff in D.C.

    From what you've said it sounds to me like Sabas torched some bridges with her actions in regard to the replacement situation. Does she have any future with the Dem Party in Hawaii? Or is it more likely that she will remain in D.C. and look for a job as a lobbyist?


    Sabas torched her bridges a long time ago. (none / 0) (#34)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 03:05:45 AM EST
    Given that she called Sen. Schatz "the least qualified and least experienced" of the three nominees we forwarded to Gov. Abercrombie yesterday, I can hardly see her working for him.

    What Sabas does from here on out is her own business. I couldn't possibly care any less. She served as chief of staff for 19 years, but ran the show mostly from Honolulu these past ten years.

    If I had to guess, I'd say that most likely she'll live out here because this is where her family resides, and I could envision her eventually running for the state legislature in the near future. Who knows, she might actually be good at that, because she's certainly nobody's fool. She's a smart woman who does have a lot to offer the people of Hawaii, if she channels her efforts properly, and loses her petty streak.



    thank you (none / 0) (#32)
    by Amiss on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 12:45:06 AM EST
    this really brought up questions in my mind as to what was going on and why.your answer s really helped.

    You're quite welcome. (none / 0) (#86)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 05:13:30 PM EST
    And thank you for taking an interest in our local events.

    Would Inouye... (none / 0) (#37)
    by unitron on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 07:32:06 AM EST
    ...have really waited until the last minute like that to communicate his "wish" to the governor, and then done so publicly?

    Was this "wish" communicated in his own handwriting?


    And even if it were in his own (none / 0) (#50)
    by brodie on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 10:20:33 AM EST
    handwriting, was he of sound mind when it was written?

    I agree with some of the other posters -- Inouye was only in a position to advise with a preferred pick, not dictate to the gov, assuming he was of sound mind up to the very end.

    And from what I've heard about this pick, he could be a solid liberal voice for the Dems for many years to come.  And it's welcome news that he's only in his 40s.  That will help bring down the average age of Dem senators to only 68 or so ...


    Brian Schatz is a good man. (none / 0) (#68)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 02:19:01 PM EST
    I have every confidence in him, and I think that you will, too, once you learn more about him and get to know him.

    I would also like to share with you and everyone here a rather clarifying bit of information which I only learned this morning, that when our committee voted Wednesday to determine which three nominees from among the dozen applicants we would be forwarding to Gov. Abercrombie:

    • Brian Schatz was the only one whose name was listed as among the top three finalists on ALL the ballots cast; and

    • While Congresswoman Hanabusa received a clear plurality of first position votes, fully one-quarter of us didn't even list her name at all amongst our preferred three finalists.

    In other words, while the committee agreed unanimously that Brian Schatz belonged on that list of three finalists, surprisingly, only 75% of us thought that Colleen Hanabusa belonged there.

    (And for the record, my three preferences were (1) Brian Schatz, (2) Colleen Hanabusa, and (3) Donna Mercado Kim.)

    Therefore, Gov. Abercrombie's final decision actually mirrors the committee's collective thoughts on the subject, and thus, "Brian Schatz, U.S. Senator" is not really so much of a surprise after all.



    Inouye's "last wish" was delivered ... (none / 0) (#67)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 01:47:56 PM EST
    ... to the State Capitol in 12-pt. Times New Roman font on U.S. Senate letterhead. The signature line simply reads, "Dan," which is how he signed off on most every piece of correspondence.

    That said, I have no way of knowing whether the late senator actually signed it personally. And if he did sign it, we really have no way of knowing if he was in fact "of sound mind and body" when he did so, and must rely solely upon Jennifer Sabas' word that he was, because quite obviously the senator can no longer answer for himself.

    And speaking personally, I don't trust her veracity on this issue.



    Here's the first decent mainland article ... (none / 0) (#70)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 02:45:55 PM EST
    ... which finally portrays accurately the tumultuous political events which just transpired out here in the islands, from -- surprise! -- Politico.

    Meanwhile, the Atlantic Monthy decides to carry Jennifer Sabas' water for her, stating churlishly in its headline that Gov. Abercrombie "disobeyed" Sen. Inouye's instructions:

    "Abercrombie knew well and good that Inouye wanted Hanabusa to take the job. The late senator wrote him a letter specifically asking for the congresswoman to take his seat."

    You can stick a fork in Ms. Sabas. She's done.



    And yet there are those who deny that (none / 0) (#72)
    by caseyOR on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 03:00:12 PM EST
    politics is personal. Or that, to harken back to a phrase from my youth, the personal is political.

    Well, not ALL politics is personal. (none / 0) (#80)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 04:20:47 PM EST
    Rather, I'd opine that it's during those times when it becomes personal, that one side or the other (or even both) can suddenly find themselves stuck in the weeds.

    In this instance, the people now wading knee-deep in the swamp grass are the Hawaii Democrats' "Old Guard," as exemplified by Ms. Sabas and her good friend Walter Dods, former Chairman and CEO of Bankwest Corp.

    That Old Guard made a crude power play when they chose to deliver Sen. Inouye's "last wish" to Gov. Abercrombie's office by messenger, while simultaneously releasing the contents of that correspondence to the local and national media -- and they lost.

    Abercrombie's surprisingly swift consolidation of power is now nearly complete, with his appointment of State Senate President Shan Tsutsui, a 41-year-old economist from Maui, as his lieutenant governor to replace the just-departed Brian Schatz. Further, the governor also gets to choose Tsutsui's successor in the legislature, once Maui Democrats determine the three finalists for their now-vacant State Senate seat.

    Given Sen. Inouye's advanced age, it was in prospective anticipation of this inevitable moment that I was one of the first Hawaii Democratic Party officials to publicly support Neil Abercrombie's gubernatorial candidacy three years ago, and why I worked so hard to ensure his election in November 2010. Without a doubt, he has seized the moment, and I'm very proud of him for having accomplished it in rather decisive fashion.

    You know, looking back at everything I've written here at TL over the last two weeks, almost from that moment on the night of December 16 when we first got word that Sen. Inouye was probably dying, I actually held a front row seat to some rather extraordinary events which have played out locally over the course of the last ten days or so.

    We've just seen a sudden and dramatic shift of political power in these islands, literally from one generation to the next, which has now resulted in near-complete control by the liberal-progressive faction of the Hawaii Democratic Party, of which I've long been part.

    Suffice to say that we don't often get such first-hand opportunities to witness and take part in political drama, and I'm really glad that I was able to share a lot of it with all of you in real time, as it was actually happening.

    We're off to Maui for the weekend. If I do say so myself, these past two weeks have been quite exhausting, both mentally and emotionally, and I'm ready for some quality down time with family and friends.



    Stormin' Norman Schwarzkopf Dead at 78 (none / 0) (#19)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 07:29:00 PM EST
    "I may have made my reputation as a general in the Army and I'm very proud of that," he once told the AP. "But I've always felt that I was more than one-dimensional. I'd like to think I'm a caring human being."

    No strong feelings about him (none / 0) (#48)
    by brodie on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 09:49:02 AM EST
    one way or the other, except to note he was a major star in the media coverage of the Gulf War 20 yrs ago, then a few years later seemed to drop off the radar screen.

    I also remember him as being the son of the state police (NJ) official who was in charge of the Lindbergh baby kidnapping case, and all the controversy surrounding that peculiar investigation, which always seemed suspect to me.


    Utah's leading gun lobby (none / 0) (#22)
    by MO Blue on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 08:01:01 PM EST
    offers six hours of free gun training to teachers.

    If we have the ability to stop something, we should do it," said the elementary school teacher, who along with nearly 200 other teachers in Utah took six hours of free gun training offered by the state's leading gun lobby.
    "We're not suggesting that teachers roam the halls" looking for an armed intruder, said Clark Aposhian, chairman of the Utah Shooting Sports Council, the state's biggest gun lobby. "They should lock down the classroom. But a gun is one more option if the shooter" breaks into a classroom.

    The group waived its $50 fee for the training. Instruction featured plastic guns and emphasized that people facing deadly threats should announce or show their gun and take cover before trying to shoot. They cautioned teachers about the liability that comes with packing a gun in public.
    The teachers at the basic gun training applied for a concealed-weapons permit, submitting fingerprints and a mug shot for a criminal background check. The class kicked off as an instructor in the "psychology of mass violence" offered various tactics to disrupt an assailant.

    The first, the instructor said, was to start with the command: "Stop right there!" link

    Six hours of training using a plastic gun. Why am I not convinced that these teachers will be properly prepared for a mass shooting.

    Seriously. (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 08:00:07 AM EST
    I don't even care if they had six weeks or six months of training. Would not ever send my child to such an environment.

    Ran into a local (none / 0) (#49)
    by brodie on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 10:13:44 AM EST
    HS history teacher this am who was drinking from a Lincoln coffee mug, and we got into a discussion of the Spielberg film, which I intend to see soon, which he praised while noting it was very chatty and thus not likely to be a favorite of his young students who are more inclined to prefer less talking and more action.

    We disagreed about the assassination and Booth, and he seemed unfamiliar with recent (since 1990) scholarship in the field presenting the case for a grand (Confed govt-ordered) conspiracy, which did get the attention of the leading scholar in this area and caused him to change his view away from a "simple conspiracy" conclusion.

    Nice chat also about Andrew Johnson, whom the teacher considers the worst president in history.  I didn't get time to ask him whether he was aware of the recent book positing that a few of the key senate votes for impeachment acquittal may have been bought.

    Not a bad way to spend 20 min in the waiting room of the auto repair shop.  Much more interesting than talking about the fiscal cliff.

    A Guide to Mass Shootings in America (none / 0) (#60)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 12:18:50 PM EST

    There were 7 mass Shooting in 2012 that injured or killed 138 people.  There is a time line going back to 1982.

    From the LINK:

    The killers: Half of the cases involved school or workplace shootings (12 and 19, respectively); the other 31 cases took place in locations including shopping malls, restaurants, government buildings, and military bases. Forty four of the killers were white males. Only one of them was a woman. (See Goleta, Calif., in 2006.) The average age of the killers was 35, though the youngest among them was a mere 11 years old. (See Jonesboro, Ark., in 1998.) A majority were mentally ill--and many displayed signs of it before setting out to kill.

    It's interesting (none / 0) (#62)
    by Reconstructionist on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 12:47:15 PM EST
      One additional factor which would be informative is whether the victims (or at least one of them) had a relationship with the killer,  the shooter chose victims with whom he had no real connection but for some reason had decided to kill, or the victims were just randomly selected.

       For instance, an employee shooting up a workplace or a guy gunning down his family while  no more excusable is easier to understand than where the victims and/or location appear  randomly selected. Even something like the Giffords shooting is easier to comprehend than say the movie theater or shopping mall shootings.