Conn. School Shooting: 27 Dead, Including 20 Children

Update: Adam Lanza's father does not live in N.J. as previously reported by the news, but in Stamford, CT. Peter Lanza is remarried and a tax specialist and VP at GE Energy Financial Services. He is also an adjunct professor at Northeastern University in Boston. Adam's uncle, James Champion, the brother of Nancy Lanza, is a police officer in New Hamphsire where they grew up, and where the Lanza family lived until 1998. Adam's grandmother, Dorothy Champion Hanson, 78, lives in Florida.

Update: 7:37 ET : ABC has a photo of Adam Lanza when he was 13. This photo is all over the internet, and looks to be a more recent one, if it's the same person (Added: It's not, it's a photo of Ryan in 2007 from his Facebook page.)

Bump and Update 6:20pm ET: This is Ryan Lanza being taken in for questioning in Hoboken. He is not involved in the shootings. He is being cooperative and said he had not been in touch with his brother in a few years. [More...]

The official says Ryan Lanza’s computers and phone records were being searched but only “in an abundance of caution.” He said Ryan told authorities he had not been in touch with his brother in recent years.

Ryan works at Ernst & Young accounting firm. Apparently, he found out about this on Facebook. Here is his FB page from earlier today, now taken down. Adam drove to the school in his mother's car. Sounds like he killed her before going to the school. (Added: She was killed at home.)

Law enforcement says all three guns were bought legally and registered to his mother.

Update 5:00 ET: ABC news reports Adam Lanza's brother says Adam is autistic. Adam is believed to have lived with his mother. The person dead at the home is an adult. It is not clear whether Adam's mother was killed at school or at home.

Ryan Lanza, 24, brother of gunman Adam Lanza, 20, tells authorities that his younger brother is autistic, or has Asperger syndrome and a “personality disorder.” Neighbors described the younger man to ABC as “odd” and displaying characteristics associated with obsessive-compulsive disorder.

Update 4:30: The shooter is 20 year old Adam Lanza, not his brother Ryan Lanza. Adam is dead, his mother Nancy Lanza was killed at the school or at her home, depending on reports, and brother Ryan is being questioned.

Update 3:30 pm News conference::

18 children and 6 adults and the shooter died at school. 2 children died later at hospital. Does not identify shooter. Says the shooter and an individual he lived with are dead. There is a secondary crime scene in Newton and an individual was found dead there. The shootings took place in two rooms in one section of the building. There is one shooter. With the shooter, 27 are dead -- from the school shooting and one more at the house in Newton.

He does not say whose body was found at the home. This is very confusing. See updates below for the media's varied reports, from one saying he drove his mother's car to the school, to another saying his girlfriend and another friend are missing, to mis-identification of the shooter. [More...]


A news conference is about to begin on the Conn. elementary school shootings today. The headline reads "27 dead, mostly children." One gunman is dead. He had two guns. They are searching to see if there is a second shooter.

Update: The press conference: Shooter is deceased inside the building. Won't discuss the number dead. In other words, no information. Worthless press conference. Via USA Today:

Over the past few years, shootings in K-12 schools have become increasingly rare. After reaching a high of 63 deaths in the 2006-2007 school year, the number of people killed in "school-associated" incidents dropped to 33 last year - lowest in two decades, according to the U.S. Department of Education.

While a few dozen children are killed each year in school, statistically speaking it remains the safest place a child will likely ever be, with the lowest chance of being killed. "When you consider the fact that there are over 50 million school children in America, the chances are over one in two million, not a high probability," said Fox. "And most cases that do occur are in high schools and less so in middle schools -- and hardly ever in elementary schools."

The news reports continue to vary widely. Some say the shooter is 20 and from New Jersey with ties to the school. Some say he used a rifle, others he used two handguns. Some say the shooter was wearing military gear. Some say most of the children killed were in a kindergarten class. Some say a second person is being questioned but he may not be a suspect. Some say 26 dead, some say 27. One report says a school psychologist was killed.

Update: The Wall St Journal has a live feed with these disparate reports: (1) CNN identifies the shooter as 24 year-old Ryan Lanza, a former Quinnipiac student who has a home in Hoboken NJ. His mother lives in Newtown. (2)Law enforcement official says Mother of Suspect in Newtown Connecticut found dead in New Jersey apartment.(3) Police searching a Newtown house in connection with Sandy Hook School shooting find the body of a woman, CBS reports, possibly shooter's mom.

Update: CNN was wrong. The shooter is not Ryan Lanza but his brother Adam Lanza.

Update: Photo of ambulance leaving residence on Yogananda St. in Newton believed to be Ryan Lanza's mother's residence, who reportedly was a teacher at the school, with a body inside, according to the Hartford Courant.

The NY Daily News reports he killed his father in New Jersey, and killed his mother in front of the kindergarten class.

29 dead, including 22 kids, in Newtown, Conn., elementary school shooting: Gunman, 24, kills mother in front of class – father’s body is found at family home in New Jersey

Later updated to 27 dead, including 18 children:

The mass murderer, packing a pair of weapons, first murdered his father in N.J. He then blasted his teacher mom, Nancy Lanza, and her students inside the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn. — a small suburban town of about 27,000 people.
A neighbor says Lanza "was a quiet kid."

Update: A federal law enforcement official said a .223 Bushmaster rifle was found in the back of a vehicle at the scene. Two firearms were recovered near the alleged gunman’s body: a Glock and a Sig Sauer, both handguns.

Obama will make a statement at 3:15 pm. ET. I'll put up a new thread for his statement.

Update: AP Report: Lanza's younger brother is being held for questioning. His girlfriend and another friend are missing.

Update: The last report is obviously wrong as the younger brother has now been identified as the shooter. New reports are that Adam's girlfriend is missing, the father is alive, and Ryan is being questioned. Further updates are moving to the top.

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  • Display: Sort:
    It's again too soon to talk about gun control (5.00 / 10) (#2)
    by Towanda on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:25:33 PM EST
    unquote the White House.

    No, it's yet again too late.

    Is there any point? (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by jtaylorr on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:28:48 PM EST
    When even smart, rational progressives like Jeralyn scoff at even the mention of gun control, is there any hope?
    How many more will die in the name of American exceptionalism?

    please, he's right and (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:30:23 PM EST
    this is about today's shooting and the children, not guns. Please don't change the topic especially before you have any facts about this gunman or his weapons.

    As guns are a necessary prerequisite (5.00 / 11) (#6)
    by Reconstructionist on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:36:07 PM EST
     to a shooting, it seems a bit strained to suggest guns are not relevant to the discussion.

    Agreed. (5.00 / 12) (#14)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:57:02 PM EST
    If any reasonable discussion about guns is considered out of bounds, then IMHO this thread is as worthless as that Sandy Hook, CT press conference Jeralyn just described.

    Frankly, it makes me sick to my stomach to have to constantly lament the dead and wounded of some mindless shooting rampage at [INSERT LOCATION HERE]. We might as well just record those expressions of sorrow on video, convert it to wmv or mpg format, and simply post it online as a continuously playing loop whenever one of these incidents take place, for all the good our sympathies for the victims do.

    We need to have an honest discussion about firearms in this country, and we needed to have it yesterday, last week, last month and last year.



    I agree (5.00 / 2) (#117)
    by Dimensional on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 05:11:26 PM EST
    Guns and gun ownership are completely connected to the national discussion.

    not guns but (none / 0) (#9)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:48:55 PM EST
    gun control laws. The news doesn't even agree on what guns were used. One report says a rifle, another says two 9mm  guns. Nothing is known yet about the shooter or whether there was more than one.

      Those guns might have been illegally possessed which would reasonably invite comment on the eneforcement issues relating to laws. The guns might have been perfectly legal which would invite reasonable comment regarding the opinions of people concernng the need for more, less or different laws relating to guns.

      As you point out we know very little about the specific facts of this incident, so what else should be discussed in this thread.

      Once it's benn said it's hoorible people have been killed, there isn't much else to say.


    Please. I have only the fact (5.00 / 6) (#7)
    by Towanda on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:36:20 PM EST
    of the statement from the White House.  And it is about today's shooting.  

    The facts about the killer(s), the victims, and the guns will not change that fact about the White House statement -- before it had facts about the killer(s), the victims, the guns.

    So, your problem is with the White House.


    Well, no one's reported as having been (5.00 / 10) (#8)
    by Anne on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:46:50 PM EST
    choked or beaten to death, or stabbed, or poisoned, so what facts matter other than that at least one person shot and killed people - children and school staff - who could not possibly have deserved to be killed or injured?

    There aren't any.

    And finding out that it was a handgun as opposed to an assault rifle isn't going to change that.


    and there's no reason to (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:51:24 PM EST
    believe that had the shooter not had a gun, he would not have used something else, like a homemade bomb that could have resulted in more fatalities.

    Please wait until the facts are known before turning the discussion into one on your views on the need for more gun control laws.


    That sort of speculation about ... (5.00 / 6) (#19)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:05:19 PM EST
    ... the gunman's determination, that he would have somehow resorted to using a bomb or some incindiary device to wreak havoc, is terribly cliché. The blunt fact of the matter is that he quite obviously didn't have to.

    the point is if he (none / 0) (#22)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:07:15 PM EST
    didn't have access to guns, and he was intent on committing this massacre, he could have done so by other means.  

    Another point (5.00 / 4) (#25)
    by Reconstructionist on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:10:12 PM EST
     is that he (or they) did not do so by other means.

    Yes but (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by kmblue on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 06:19:11 PM EST
    would other methods be as deadly and easy?
    Sounds like nonsense to me.

    I have not said Word One about (5.00 / 7) (#23)
    by Anne on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:08:03 PM EST
    gun control laws - not one word; please do not put words in my mouth or misconstrue my comments.

    Nor have I attempted to opine on what the alleged shooter would have or could have done had he not had a gun.

    The fact is that these people were shot - not with arrows, not with slingshots, not with pepper spray, not with silly string, but with bullets fired from some kind of gun.

    What kind of gun, whether legal or illegal - those are unknowns at this point, but establishing that fact won't change the fact that these people, most of them children, will be just as dead regardless of whether the weapons involved were legally owned.

    As I stated quite clearly, my thoughts are with the families, with the community, and the immense tragedy that has been perpetrated upon them.


    Jeralyn also deleted one of my comments ... (none / 0) (#186)
    by Andreas on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 02:23:20 PM EST
    ... which were not about guns or gun control. She obviously wants to prevent any political discussion now.

    There's No Reason ot Believe ? (5.00 / 7) (#48)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:45:06 PM EST
    There is every reason to believe that a mass killing executed with a machine small kids regularly figure out(by mistake) may not have happened had the killer been forced to build a bomb or other such non-sense.

    Guns are being used by people for a reason.  Trust me, if these people could find another mode of killing people that would result in more deaths, they wouldn't be using guns.  Make 500lbs bombs legal and I guarantee, these shootings will stop ASAP.

    Trying to equate bomb building and operating a gun is ridiculous even for the most deluded gun lover.


    sure there is. how many people use (5.00 / 4) (#139)
    by observed on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 08:11:34 PM EST
    bombs? Mass murders usually involve guns. To suggest the culprits would use another means if necessary is counterfactual speculation.

    Not so (none / 0) (#151)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 10:57:47 PM EST

    The worst mass school murder was in Michigan in the 1920's and 45 were killed in a bombing.  Historical fact is hardly counterfactual.

    1 instance out, what, over 100? (5.00 / 2) (#154)
    by observed on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:14:36 AM EST
    That doesn't prove YOUR point.

    Geezuz (5.00 / 3) (#156)
    by cal1942 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:25:18 AM EST
    The school bombing you're referencing was in Bath Michigan, just 10 miles from my hometown.

    So let's inspect the historical facts a bit more closely.

    That bombing involved bringing large quantities of explosives (pyrotol and dynamite) into the school basement over a period of time, not unlike the Guy Fawkes incident. It took months to stash and disguise explosives in the basement of the school. The bomber (Andrew Kehoe)had access to the school (school board treasurer).  Half the building was blown apart.

    Letting the ridiculously easy access to guns off the hook is absurd.


    So (none / 0) (#15)
    by Reconstructionist on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:58:22 PM EST
      if  a nation, say ythe USA, were to bomb another nation, say Iran and the only info we had was that it was conventional  bomb, would you suggest no one should discuss the legal issues surrounding the bombing until more information was available. and, would you support that argument by suggesting the USA could have killed more people with a nuclear weapon?

    Seriously, Jeralyn, that argument is (none / 0) (#16)
    by vml68 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:59:18 PM EST
    getting old. People making homemade bombs are more likely to blow themselves up while making one.

    did you see (none / 0) (#18)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:04:30 PM EST
    Last I heard, Jeralyn, ... (5.00 / 7) (#20)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:05:50 PM EST
    ... none of them were killed.

    In the same article (none / 0) (#108)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:46:09 PM EST
    is this quote:  

    No motive was given for the stabbings, which echo a string of similar assaults against schoolchildren in 2010 that killed nearly 20 and wounded more than 50. The most recent such attack took place in August, when a knife-wielding man broke into a middle school in the southern city of Nanchang and stabbed two students before fleeing.

    Most of the attackers have been mentally disturbed men involved in personal disputes or unable to adjust to the rapid pace of social change in China, underscoring grave weaknesses in the antiquated Chinese medical system's ability to diagnose and treat psychiatric illness.

    How Many Dead ? (5.00 / 10) (#58)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:58:24 PM EST
    I think your trigger finger response hampered you ability to understand the story.

    "Good thing that guy didn't live in America and gotten his mits on a gun", is what I imagine a lot of parents in China are thinking.

    But that is great example, see the US were guns are everywhere and a maniac decides to hurt kids.  See China where guns are extremely hard to obtain and a maniac decides to hurt kids.

    One country has a hospital full of scared kids in bandages, the other has black bags with bodies.  This is one of those easy cavemen conclusions.

    There isn't a better example then the one you just posted for reducing access to guns in America.


    AND (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by cal1942 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:27:54 AM EST

    A shamelessly cheap shot Jerilyn.



    no, he isn't, and neither are you. (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by cpinva on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 06:49:44 PM EST
    please, he's right

    or, have you joined the NRA lunatic squad, which admits of no good time, for discussing gun control? i gave you more credit than that. clearly, i was wrong.

    frankly, it's far past time the gun apologists just shut up, and let the adults talk. unfortunately ms. merritt, you've proven, time and again, to be little better than wayne lapierre, when it comes to gun nuttery. so perhaps you might want to consider re-considering your position. it, and you, are tragically wrong.

    btw, that gun, the bushmaster .223, was the gun of choice, for the "beltway snipers" a decade ago. turns out (and i'm sure the manufacturer will be just shocked to learn this!), it's also a very easy weapon to convert to a fully automatic one. go figure. whether that was the case here, i have no clue, but it does explain why it's such a popular gun.

    yes ms. merritt, your blog, your decision what stays or goes. that said, it cannot change the deeply held wrongness of your personal beliefs, on this issue.


    Just breaks my heart that this has (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by Anne on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:33:10 PM EST
    happened again.

    There's a lot of things I don't understand, but most especially in these cases, I wish I knew why these obviously mentally ill people with access to weapons feel the need to kill others before killing themselves.  I guess we'll never know.

    As a new grandma, our family is preparing for an especially happy Christmas; it just breaks my heart thinking about the immense and incomprehensible grief these families and friends and members of the community are experiencing.

    Such a tragedy.

    IMO if the U.S. had a lot fewer guns (5.00 / 6) (#11)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:53:36 PM EST
    and a lot more well funded mental health programs, tragic situations like this might not be occurring on a regular basis.

    that would not put money in the bank accounts of (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by cpinva on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 06:53:14 PM EST
    either the gun manufacturers, or the NRA, so it isn't going to happen.

    IMO if the U.S. had a lot fewer guns
    and a lot more well funded mental health programs, tragic situations like this might not be occurring on a regular basis.

    When I first saw the breaking news, (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by vml68 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:56:06 PM EST
    it said 1 dead and I thought to myself, that it was one too many. To see the death toll now makes me sick to my stomach.
    My heart aches for these families who have lost a child.

    Fame (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by me only on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 02:01:30 PM EST
    The killer gains notoriety.  The person generally feels unwanted/unloved and a simple suicide means they will be forgotten.

    "If I can't be famous, might as well be infamous."


    State police took over... (5.00 / 4) (#26)
    by magster on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:17:09 PM EST
    reports that the local police is a very small police force, and that the first responders are, very understandably, very emotionally shaken.

    Also a body found at shooter's residence.

    How long before the NRA states that if the children had only been armed, none of this would have happened?

    I'm a wreck right now...

    Read this quickly (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Towanda on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:20:13 PM EST
    before it is "disappeared," too, for a statement within it.

    sorry. (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by magster on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:24:08 PM EST
    Part of my being a "wreck" is anger.

    I've now seen two DenverPost commenters... (none / 0) (#111)
    by magster on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:47:55 PM EST
    talking about how arming the teachers would have stopped this.

    Oyyyyy ... inevitable (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by Yman on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:53:12 PM EST
    Ridiculous, ... but inevitable.

    :[ Yikes . . . (none / 0) (#119)
    by Dimensional on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 05:17:32 PM EST

    OTOH, the Denver Post editorial today (none / 0) (#182)
    by christinep on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 02:47:33 PM EST
    Made sense...especially in it's call to address large capacity magazines & assault weapons.  I think that a simple, direct, pragmatic focus--as in the Post's call--meets an urgent need in our country.  (For a broader, longer-term evaluation & recommendations, a real Blue Ribbon Panel with a public charge, public reports periodically with maximum publicity and air time would be a starting point to get us beyond the handwringing after each such tragedy; and, move us through the thicket of the recurring question of WHY so many gun deaths in the US & HOW do we best confront the dilemma while honoring our Constitutional rights?

    CBS saying they are hearing that .... (none / 0) (#31)
    by magster on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:21:43 PM EST
    one of the guns might have been a high capacity AR 15 with 223 caliber ammunition. Don't know what that means other than a high capacity gun.

    CBS now saying that the rifle (none / 0) (#53)
    by MKS on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:53:17 PM EST
    was left in the car.

    And, the shooter apparently argued with the school principal, and the argument with cursing was broadcast on school PA system.


    The M16 is the military version of the (none / 0) (#60)
    by me only on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 02:03:16 PM EST

    Very moving statement from Obama (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by magster on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 02:21:36 PM EST
    and that "something has to be done."

    are you effing kidding me? (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by ruffian on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 02:36:52 PM EST

    A 20-something male who travels across (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by Peter G on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 02:37:52 PM EST
    three states to murder both of his parents -- in a dramatic fashion that involves also shooting up a classroom full of children -- and then commits suicide.  I am going to jump to conclusions here and say that this looks like a classic psychotic breakdown (sudden onset of acute paranoid schizophrenia) scenario.  A mental health issue, not a criminal justice issue. No form of gun control can keep firearms or other weapons out of the hands of the very small (but irreducible-to-zero) number of people (unidentifiable in advance) who are experiencing a mental breakdown, and will soon get to point of a family-directed murder-suicide.

    I'll disagree (5.00 / 5) (#79)
    by Reconstructionist on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 02:40:19 PM EST
      We can't prevent all or maybe even most of these tragedies. There is not even a guarantee we can prevent even one. I don't think that necessarily supports an argument we shouldn't try.

    Of course we should try to (none / 0) (#120)
    by Peter G on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 05:17:51 PM EST
     "do something." I just don't support "trying" things we already know cannot work.  Do something plausible, if you have an idea what that might be.  Other than better mental health programs, what do you suggest?

    Really not sure why the solution (5.00 / 4) (#175)
    by MO Blue on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 10:10:34 AM EST
    needs to be a either/or solution. A solution that involves fewer guns, requires more stringent background checks for all sales, bans on guns and equipment that have no other value than being able to kill a large number of people in the shortest time combined with more and better well funded mental health programs and research could IMO go a long way in preventing some of these tragedies.  

    I can't help but think that the more (5.00 / 4) (#78)
    by ruffian on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 02:40:16 PM EST
    incidents like this we have, the more we will get, as the very possibility of doing something like this creeps into the psyche of the already disturbed. That's why it is not just a question of disturbed individuals, but of a disturbed society that breeds this kind of acting out.

    The weapons of choice are part of the disease.

    Better mental health care in most (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by me only on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 02:59:34 PM EST
    other countries.

    Seriously, paranoid schizophrenia "Signs and symptoms of schizophrenia typically develop between the teenage years and the mid-30s."

    Happens more to men than women.  Single men in that age range don't have a lot of money, many don't have health insurance and even if they do, the mental health riders (which might have changed under Obamacare) wouldn't always pay for treatment.

    Drunk drivers (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:40:51 PM EST
    Drunk drivers kill 10,000 people per year.  Is it too much to ask us to give up cars and make alcohol illegal?

    Shouldn't we do it for the children?

    Oklahoma City and the World Trade Center bombings should be evidence that crazy always finds a way.  Crazy will find a gun if it wants one.  

    IMHO, we should be talking more about how we might keep people from falling thru whatever the cracks are that lead to this behavior.  The root cause always seems to be profound insanity, not the existence of guns.  This behavior will not stop unless our society find better means of managing the mentally ill, as well as managing horrible behavior like bullying.

    First, (5.00 / 5) (#109)
    by Reconstructionist on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:46:58 PM EST
      not all gun murders are committed by the mentally ill.

     Second, improving mental health care and reforming gun laws are not mutually exclusive endeavors.

      Third, demonstrating other problems exist, even greater problems, does not support an argument that the instant problem can be blithely ignored.


    On CBS... (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by DebFrmHell on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 05:48:58 PM EST
    The Doctor at the Danbury hospital explained the shock of realizing how bad it was when they were told no more wounded were coming after they had only received three.  ((Two of the children have died at the hospital.))

    That made me cry.

    From our "Cat in the A$$hat" file: (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 07:54:24 PM EST
    Former Arkansas Gov. (and self-styled "Man of God") Mike Huckabee spoke on Fox News earlier this evening (or afternoon, Hawaii time), and offered the following:

    "We ask why there is violence in our schools, but we have systematically removed God from our schools. Should we be so surprised that schools would become a place of carnage? [...] We've made it a place where we don't want to talk about eternity, life, what responsibility means, accountability -- that we're not just going to have be accountable to the police if they catch us, but one day we stand before, you know, a holy God in judgment. If we don't believe that, then we don't fear that."

    I hold that such statements simply speak for themselves in terms of their insensitivity and foolishness, and that the Rev. Huckabee is a self-righteous, world-class turd.

    I (none / 0) (#160)
    by lentinel on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 06:16:07 AM EST
    wonder if the Huckster thinks the attack on Pearl Harbor happened because the people there didn't believe in God.

    Why was the brother handcuffed? (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by citizenjeff on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 10:50:28 PM EST
    What makes it lawful or unlawful for the cops to handcuff someone for questioning? Is there an obligation to state the reason?

    CNN identified the older brother, Ryan, as the (none / 0) (#161)
    by Angel on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 09:05:43 AM EST
    killer.  I am wondering if he will be able to sue them for that.  The media was awful on the reporting of this tragedy, so much false information put out there.  

    Awful is an understatement (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by Reconstructionist on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 09:30:39 AM EST
      All the networks were tossing out unverified reports rapid fire. Misidentifying the shooter might have been the worst but there a huge number of negligently reported "facts."

     We had reports of two shooters,  a dead father at the CT home, a dead body in Hoboken, a third brother, a dead third brother, missing friends, mom being the kindergarten teacher of the murdered children and I'm sure more that was all false.

      It's well past time the media take stock of its methods and develop new ethical guidelines relevant to live stream reporting. Babbling on-air about second hand reports from unidentified sources and even parroting amateurs engaging in social media publishing should be unacceptable in a field that wants to be considered a profession.


    And now Lt. Vance has said that the shooter forced (none / 0) (#169)
    by Angel on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 09:47:14 AM EST
    his way into the school, he was not let in by the principal, as was reported earlier.  And the mother wasn't a teacher there as first reported.  The one injured survivor is an adult and they are saying s/he will be very helpful in the investigation.  

    No grounds for a lawsuit, I think (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by Towanda on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 01:11:18 PM EST
    unless against the authorities, the source of the misinformation to the media.  

    However, it ought not be news to the news media that authorities in a small town under tremendous pressure might go with the name on the ID carried by the shooter (according to reports of why this awful confusion occurred) too soon, and that the race to the scoop causes screw-ups that make all involved, including the media, morally culpable for making the worst day in Ryan Lanza's life even worse.  My god, the guy finds out his mother is dead, slaughtered by his brother, and police and media think it was him?!

    Yeh, I know, I used the word "morally" in conjunction with media.  But let's also remember that there are media, and then there are media -- as I am reminded in watching some of the interviews with surviving teachers and others that were conducted with integrity and compassion by good journalists.  We must applaud them when they do well to point up even more when they do not.


    I'm not sure the authorities actually gave (none / 0) (#183)
    by Angel on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 03:07:43 PM EST
    positive confirmation of the identity of the shooter that early on.  If they did then shame on them.  If the didn't then shame on CNN, and may Ryan Lanza sue the crap out of them.

    And now, a new report (none / 0) (#184)
    by Towanda on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 03:12:48 PM EST
    (I missed the source) that the shooter did not have his brother's ID.

    But I recall that a report yesterday attributed the identification of the wrong brother to authorities.  Of course, that could have been c*ap, made up by some over-eager scoop-mentality media type -- or someone else at the scene with no authority but an attention-grabber.  So much information was screwy.


    Ryan has said he hasn't been in contact (none / 0) (#185)
    by MO Blue on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 03:28:47 PM EST
    with his brother since 2010 and he lives in New Jersey. After hearing that, I did wonder how Adam had access to his brother's I.D. ?????

    I wonder if we will ever get all the facts after so much distortion.


    Now reporting (none / 0) (#1)
    by CoralGables on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:14:37 PM EST
    26 dead. 18 of them children.

    WFSB-TV is quoting sources ... (none / 0) (#27)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:18:27 PM EST
    ... on site that the official death toll may indeed increase before the day is out.

    It has (none / 0) (#70)
    by Amiss on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 02:29:57 PM EST
    He apparently killed his father in Hoboken, N.J. and his mother and others in Conn. According to Fox, so take it for what its worth.

    Fox is now reporting the (none / 0) (#110)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:47:40 PM EST
    Personally (none / 0) (#28)
    by Reconstructionist on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:19:05 PM EST
    I agree with the Heller decision and believe the 2nd Amendment was intended to confer an individual right. That doesn't mean "gun control" is forbidden it just means the analysis of a particular law begins from that perspective.It really is still too early to make much of a statement as to how much Heller means in terms of regulation of firearms.


    again please use this thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:32:14 PM EST
    to discuss the shootings, not your views of gun laws.

    question (none / 0) (#42)
    by Reconstructionist on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:36:30 PM EST
      Are not your suggestions a person could if so inclined kill many without a gun reasonably viewed as  expressing your view of gun control laws?

    I was responding to others (none / 0) (#104)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:30:23 PM EST
    comments initially, but have since stopped as it seems to be dominating the shootings. This thread is about the shootings, and I'm interested in reading comments with updates and information.

    So further comments about gun control will be deleted. You can discuss that topic in the next thread about Obama's statement. This thread is about the shootings.


    On/Off topic? (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by Key on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 08:54:54 PM EST
    Almost 2 years ago I stopped coming to this site because of the policy of disallowing certain discussions related to the particular issue in the news today.  It's quite disheartening to read from people who have spent time and energy to write thoughtful comments and analysis, only to find those comments have vanished on my next visit to the site.

    My last visit here was on July 20th, when I asked via a comment, whether or not a discussion on the issue could take place.  To your credit, you let my question remain and even responded with an answer.

    Your response then echos some of your responses today.  Here's part of what you wrote:

    "This is the work of one deranged person. No gun law would have prevented him from acting. He would have robbed or stolen one or made a bomb and potentially killed more people. His apartment was filled with booby-traps and explosives."

    As I said 6 months ago... "honestly, something has to happen in America regarding guns.  I don't know what and I don't know how, but something."  And as George Santayana once said, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."  

    If you don't want a discussion on gun issues in this tread, perhaps you can create a new thread where we can discuss it.  Not just an open thread, but a thread where you invite discussion.  You mentioned a "next thread about Obama's statement" but it doesn't look like that thread ever got created.


    you can find it (none / 0) (#143)
    by CoralGables on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 09:01:59 PM EST
    Horrible Horrible Tragedy (none / 0) (#29)
    by vicndabx on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:20:09 PM EST
    Wondering how this person got into the school?  It would be terrible if the shooter turns out to be a parent, even worse if lax security allowed some random person to enter the school.

    Who goes to a school to do something like this?  I'm almost mad the shooter is dead because it will be harder to understand motive.

    unfortunately I can tell (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Slado on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:45:22 PM EST
    you it is very easy to get into a school.

    I work in construction and have worked on several school jobs.  You can simply walk in.  You might have to sign in but once you're in you're in and if your intention is to shoot up the place all you need is an open door.

    We live in a free society.  If someone has motive and weapons all we can do is stop the motive and maybe the weapons.   We can't make schools rampage proof.


    Well, then, I guess that's that, huh? (none / 0) (#94)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:04:05 PM EST
    Perhaps we should all hereby promise to simply shrug our shoulders collectively with palms upraised, and whine, "Hey, what can you do?" the next time this kind of senseless tragedy occurs, and then head off to church to light a candle.

    I don't often agree agree with Slado (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by sj on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:13:43 PM EST
    Actually probably never.  But he's right about this.  It's shockingly easy to get into a school.  But what's the alternative, really?  Lockdown?

    Yup. And if other schools (none / 0) (#101)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:17:31 PM EST
    are like my kids' schools, there are multiple buildings and multiple options to enter the school.

    And, in this instance, it sounds like the kid was known to the staff, as it sounds like he and the school principle had a big argument before he went on his rampage.


    In NYC (none / 0) (#115)
    by vicndabx on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:54:33 PM EST
    Most doors are locked from the outside (all can be opened from inside) w/the exception of the one door through which people enter once children are inside.  That door is manned by a school safety officer.  

    There's no reason why access can't be tightened up.  Asking simple questions about who the person is there to see and making them wait in a designated area.  People shouldn't just be rolling up to the school unannounced, we're not talking about a shoe store.  It is a learning institution where both teachers and students should be able to be focus on what they're there for.


    I recently photographed kids (none / 0) (#125)
    by kmblue on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 06:27:45 PM EST
    at a grade school in Atlanta.  All outer doors are  locked, all classroom doors are on inside hallways, and nobody (including me) got into a building without being authorized at a security checkpoint.

    It's for the protection of the kids and staff.

    Very sad.  Completely necessary.


    It IS necessary (none / 0) (#137)
    by sj on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 08:07:10 PM EST
    and sad.  I guess I'm glad to hear it but it's sad all the same.  They'll probably all be going to that.

    Mother Was a Teacher (none / 0) (#88)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 02:58:40 PM EST
    Her classroom was ground zero.

    Maybe not a teacher (none / 0) (#148)
    by MKS on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 10:39:58 PM EST
    TPM has updates on this.  The newer articles say they cannot find her on the District website, and a member of the School Board never heard of her fwiw.....

    This fact could be wrong too.


    CBS now showing pictures of Lanza (none / 0) (#35)
    by magster on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:27:16 PM EST

    shooter has been identified (none / 0) (#37)
    by Amiss on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:30:03 PM EST
    as Ryan Lansa approx. 20 yrs. Old, grew up around there, but lived in New Jersey. The school was K-4 grades. A house he was connected with has been identfied and allegedly a body there.
    Now they are saying his Mother was a teacher that "loved" her job.

    cnn says he is 24 (none / 0) (#39)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:34:01 PM EST
    now CNN says he's 20 (none / 0) (#43)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:39:12 PM EST
    I wish they would wait until they were confident their information was accurate before putting their updates out there.

    CBS News has identified the gunman ... (none / 0) (#40)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:34:18 PM EST
    ... as a 24-year-old named Ryan Lanza, who grew up in Newtown CT and attended nearby Quinnipiac University, but who had since moved to New Jersey.

    They've also reported that a body has been discovered at his mother's home in Newtown, and that his mother is a teacher at Sandy Hook Elementary School, where the massacre took place. The WFSB-TV live feed can be found HERE.

    Sheez!! (none / 0) (#47)
    by magster on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:42:45 PM EST
    WTH was going through this guy's mind.

    Just saw video of grief stricken woman placed in an ambulance.

    WFSB-TV is also reporting that ... (none / 0) (#54)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:56:01 PM EST
    ... an entire kindergarten class was wiped out. I've got to turn this live feed off. I'm getting very angry listening to this in my office, and I do have work to do.

    Aloha, everyone.


    CBS with Norah O'Donnell (none / 0) (#55)
    by MKS on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:56:23 PM EST
    broadcasting parents accounts fromn their kids.

    O'Donnell can be very annoying but really giving out a lot detail with appropriate somber demeanor.

    The jittery staccato of most (none / 0) (#63)
    by MKS on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 02:06:27 PM EST
    reporters is really unnerving.    O'Donnell is calm, informative and oddly reassuring.....

    a brother reportedly "in custody" (none / 0) (#62)
    by Reconstructionist on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 02:05:25 PM EST
      Just mentioned in passing and not clear if he is considered a suspect or just being questioned.

    now being reported (none / 0) (#72)
    by Amiss on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 02:35:58 PM EST
    The killer was not Ryan, but his brother Adam.

    ... is WFSB-TC in nearby Rocky Hill, CT. I guess we'll just have to wait until all this is finally sorted out.

    Authorities have confirmed that as of 3:50 p.m. EST, 20 children are confirmed dead, mostly all kindergartners, along with six adults and the gunman himself.


    UPDATE: You are correct. (none / 0) (#100)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:16:41 PM EST
    WSFB-TV has now confirmed that the gunman is not Ryan Lanza, but his brother Adam.

    The authorities' attention was intitally tained on Ryan after he posted a comment on his Facebook page saying, "It's not me." Ryan is the brother who's presently in custody right now, not Adam.


    "Especially when its not your kid" (none / 0) (#76)
    by MKS on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 02:38:13 PM EST
    They are all our kids.....

    I apologize (5.00 / 4) (#83)
    by Reconstructionist on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 02:49:54 PM EST
      I should not have made my point in that fashion. I should have relaized not everyone would see all the other posts and might misinterpret my intent. Not a good time for rhetorical devices.

    My irony detector (none / 0) (#85)
    by MKS on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 02:54:20 PM EST
    not working right now....

    I See it Now... (none / 0) (#87)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 02:57:02 PM EST
    ...but the problem isn't your irony, it's that is a pretty common sentiment on this issue and I would imagine by tomorrow we will get loads of posts like your that aren't meant to be ironic.

    Speaking of, where are the ditto heads, waiting on the Fox News talking points/marching orders I suspect.  


    I knew Reconstructionist's intent (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by sj on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:12:17 PM EST
    but agree wholeheartedly with this anyway.

    They are all our kids.....

    Please discuss the shootings here (none / 0) (#102)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:23:04 PM EST
    not your views on gun control. You can discuss those in the thread on Obama's statement since he mentioned the need for some kind of change (he didn't refer to guns, but your views on what changes are needed would be appropriate there.)

    This thread is for information on the shootings.

    Got it (none / 0) (#103)
    by MKS on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:25:46 PM EST

    The speculation now (none / 0) (#106)
    by Reconstructionist on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:37:39 PM EST
     is that the shooter is 20 year old Adam Lanza who was carrying his 24 year old brother Ryan's ID. That would explain a lot of the confusion and inconsistencies in earlierr reports. I would not however bank on this being accurate either as it is being attributed to unidentified scources.

    There are reports now that Adam (none / 0) (#121)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 05:22:18 PM EST
    had been diagnosed as autistic or Aspergers.

    Keep your comments to the shooting (none / 0) (#123)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 05:57:43 PM EST
    here. You can discuss your preferred solutions here.

    American Family Association (none / 0) (#126)
    by Yman on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 06:45:04 PM EST
    Bryan Jonathan Fischer, Director of Issues Analysis for the American Family Association, says that G0d didn't stop the shooting because he's a "gentleman" who "doesn't go where he's not wanted" (i.e. public schools).

    Did you ever notice that the people who feel the need to loudly proclaim themselves "Christian!" and "family values!" are neither?

    For everyone saying the school needed better... (none / 0) (#131)
    by redwolf on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 07:05:39 PM EST
    security: I don't think it would have changed the outcome.  He might not have attacked the school, but he would have attacked another soft target.  Crazies seem to pick targets on the basis of doing maximum damage possible.  In an age where regular people can drive a 3 ton vehicles capable of killing multiple people, build bombs in your basement, and use rapid fire firearms its extremely important to identify and separate people with mental illness from the general populous.  

    This tragedy, the Arizona shooting, and the batman shooting could have all been avoided if people took mental illness seriously.  People who are crazy need to be separated from the general public and kept away from potential weapons like cars, chemicals, guns, knives, ect.

    Good idea (none / 0) (#132)
    by kmblue on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 07:20:57 PM EST
    but who in this country is willing to pay for better mental health care?  Besides me?

    I am (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by sj on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 08:07:47 PM EST
    Sorry, we need the money... (none / 0) (#147)
    by unitron on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 10:16:47 PM EST
    ...to bribe the "job creators" to...


    ...well, to keep on being rich, I suppose.


    I heard on the radio that the security (none / 0) (#134)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 07:53:31 PM EST
    at the school was really pretty good. ID's required, etc. I wonder if him being the son of a teacher there allowed him to enter at will?

    Good question. (none / 0) (#136)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 07:55:13 PM EST
    A chain of security is only as strong as its weakest link.

    Shooting the principal may well have (none / 0) (#141)
    by caseyOR on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 08:45:44 PM EST
    eliminated the person who would block him from moving further into the school.

    Story I heard (none / 0) (#152)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:11:23 AM EST
    was a mom, the Principal, VPrinc and school psych were in a meeting in a room when the shots rang out.

    The P, VP and Psych ran out into the hallway to see what was going on, and all three were shot - the P & VP mortally, the psych was shot in the foot.

    The mom ran out afterward and ran past the two dead women.

    I might have it slightly off, maybe the psych was killed and the VP was shot in the foot, but that was the gist of the mom's story.


    what should I tell my kids? (none / 0) (#133)
    by Philly on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 07:36:42 PM EST
    My 7 year old (who thankfully doesn't attend that school) found out what happened, and is really shaken up.  I think what horrifies him the most is that the shooter purportedly killed his own mother, a teacher.

    This is what my school district (none / 0) (#153)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:13:25 AM EST
    Apparently that's actually Yogananda St... (none / 0) (#140)
    by unitron on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 08:23:01 PM EST
    ...not in Newton, and not exactly even in Newtown, but just east of it in Sandy Hook, CT