Thursday Morning Open Thread

The 11 Show, starring me, post Election edition. I will discuss the election and the "fiscal cliff" nonsense.

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Open Thread.

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    Looking forward to discussion of the (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by DFLer on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 07:34:28 AM EST
    "fiscal cliff" nonsense, which theme I see all over the morning news.

    I've already heard so much nonsense (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:09:12 AM EST
    in the office this morning...people thinking a lame duck session starts AFTER the new year...calling it a 'lame' session, because they think they are clever...or maybe they just don't know what it is, since the whole point of the 'lame duck' metaphor escapes them. And no understanding whatsoever that sequestration is something the GOP congress did to themselves, and they can undo it anytime. They were even boo'ing the possibility that sequestration get kicked down the road a few months.



    ruffian (none / 0) (#43)
    by cal1942 on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:49:11 PM EST
    my bet is:  They don't understand any of it.  Neither the lame duck session nor sequestration.

    Sadly, I'm not sure the Congress (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 01:00:55 PM EST
    understands sequestration or even the rudimentary elements of fiscal and monetary policy.

    And too many of those who do appear to be using their knowledge for, if not evil, then something not particularly supportive of the greater good.  For them, it seems to be, "if my financial circumstances are greater than the rubes who keep voting us into office, good!"

    I think the bloom is rapidly coming off Tuesday night's rose.


    Wikipedia says: (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by fishcamp on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 08:03:25 AM EST
    The United States fiscal cliff refers to the effect of a series of enacted legislation, if unchanged, will result in tax increases, spending cuts, and a corresponding reduction in the budget deficit at the end of 2012.  Good grief, I'm going fishing!

    The USACE commander visited recently (none / 0) (#4)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 08:13:18 AM EST
    Gave a little speech where he said that if Obama is elected it would be rough for the Army.  If Romney is elected it was going to be rough for the Army.  We have to start a downsize no matter who the President is.

    Sequester or B.S., is that the question? (none / 0) (#36)
    by KeysDan on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 11:47:11 AM EST
     At the time, it was my view that the "sequestration" or automatic across the board cuts  ($54.7 billion per year, each, for defense and non-defense, a total of $109.3 billion/year or $948 billion total (plus interest to get the $1.2 trillion over 10 years), was better than the grand bargain. The B.S. deal (aka, Bowles- Simpson/Cat Food Commission) was not a walk in the park, despite the bluff and bluster of Pete Peterson and his ilk.

    In any event, it does not seem that the grand bargain would have been any less steep of a cliff for us to either go over or to dangle from. And, the sequestration cuts from the domestic side do not permit cuts to food stamps, social security, Medicaid or Medicare beneficiaries (cuts are permitted to Medicare expenditures or providers not to exceed 2% per year).

    Cuts with a surgical knife are ordinarily preferred to those of a meat axe, but with Congress that is not always the way it works. And, most of the cuts may be manipulated by the departments in accord with their priorities.  Military personnel are exempt from the defense cuts, as well. And, with the draw down of the Afghan war, it may be a good timing to re-ordering priorities on defense as well as non-defense spending.

    It seems to me that the sequestration should proceed, with corrective legislation where required. The economy is probably not ready for any grand bargain at this point being crabbed by any austerity measures. However, if it is to be,  sequestration may well be better.

    The impact of sequestration may be ameliorated by measures such as waiving cuts to specific programs for the poor, and, allowing  the Bush tax cuts (all of them) to continue for another two years until the economy and jobs rebound.


    No that wasn't really what he was talking about (none / 0) (#80)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 07:57:39 AM EST
    We are coming down from executing two wars.  We have been running at top speed and the race is over.  We have a lot of soldiers like my husband past 20 and still serving.  Their accumulated knowledge and warm bodies were needed.  Not needed now, but everyone who stayed for the really hard stuff and the dying must move on now no matter who is President.  The top commanders are all aware of what is coming and many people are going to feel let down and hurt.  We don't need all this civilian support either, some of those jobs will disappear. Everyone military connected is going to be upset or at the very least feel vulnerable and under appreciated except for a few of us who knew this day was coming.

    When it starts though, it will hit Fox News like a betrayal on all levels.  It will be a betrayal of national security and betrayal of the heroes, and nobody will acknowledge (probably not even CNN) that commanders were running around long before the axe giving these speeches and saying publicly that no matter who was President this was going to happen.

    The USACE commander was obviously a Romney man though, so I probably should have taped the speech in case I find him forgetting about the reality on Fox News and sobbing hysterically next year :)


    MT - have you checked out (none / 0) (#88)
    by DFLer on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 10:39:06 AM EST
    Rachel Maddow's new book "Drift" ?

    I'm skipping around in it, but find the chapters about privatization very good. Lots of dreck could be cut there, as they consistently run over budget. The Pentagon thought they would be saving money, by not having to carry health care and child care costs for military personnel for these jobs. Not only did it not result in cost-savings, but caused many headaches for the military, as they did not have typical chain of command control over these companies.


    Someday, if we can ever get together (none / 0) (#90)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 10:50:46 AM EST
    My husband could tell you stories.  I will read her book though particularly because she addresses the privatization issue.  I think when she went to Afghanistan she discovered that she likes soldiers and soldiers discovered that they liked her.  Bet they talked her ear off over what is really screwed up in the system.

    My husband is currently attempting to build a website for an internal organization that focuses on efficiency that often leads to soldier happiness.  The first order of business....no contractor can build this site.  The web is full of websites that military families are supposed to be able to use.  In the beginning every FRG had one built, and the contractor walks off with a fortune in the pocket and nobody can maintain this thing.  Complete waste of taxpayer money and you have military families constantly moving and trying to use these websites when they get to a new location to learn important information and the thing is two years old and useless!  All the phone numbers on the site no longer go to anyone you need.  Often the names of commanders and aides that are supposed to help you are ancient and those people are long gone.  You sit there and tear your hair out because the site looks great, it's like a cruel joke told over and over and over again.


    Her book starts with horror stories from Bosnia (none / 0) (#115)
    by DFLer on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 04:13:45 PM EST
    The gate guards are a mess right now too (none / 0) (#91)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 11:02:58 AM EST
    You have a large group under a contractor, making minimum wage and no benefits.  The work sucks, it's crappy uninspiring work and if anyone goes ballistic on post like what happened at Fort Hood you are the people who must secure the post.  The turnover is insane, so they interspersed GS slots into it.  Now you have people doing a job that sucks but they make money they can live on and have health insurance and they try to prop up a system that otherwise cannot self sustain.  You have people making $30 an hour working next to people making $8, it's stupid, it's making turnover even worse, it's insane and kind of abusive to the $8 people who know exactly what the score is.  They simply weren't born under the proper moon.  Didn't know the right people.  They are often abused too when it comes to scheduling and they have no union to fight for them to be treated fairly like the GS employees have.  They often fail to show up for work because it is so demeaning.

    MT, if you know any of those guards, (none / 0) (#109)
    by easilydistracted on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 12:55:30 PM EST
    you might mention for them to make certain they are compensated at the correct classification and rate reflected in the Area Wage Determination for Dale County issued by the DOL. If not, they should file a complaint with DOL.

    Unfortunately what they are being paid (none / 0) (#111)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 01:11:45 PM EST
    Is currently legal.  Something is going to have to give though because of the instability it is bringing to the whole system.

    Plan B -- (none / 0) (#112)
    by easilydistracted on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 01:22:58 PM EST
    Seek out a labor union and organize. I'm surprised one of the existing unions at Rucker hasn't already come calling.

    The contractor will just start a new (none / 0) (#114)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 03:35:56 PM EST
    company and rebid and rewin the contract as a new company, shedding everything the old company had to abide by, much like Blackwater is notorious for.

    digby has interesting post (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by MO Blue on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 08:11:04 AM EST
    President Obama can define his mandate however he chooses. And he knows by now that he will never win over the right no matter what he does. So he should probably be aware of this:

    A long string of lawmakers who supported the Bowles-Simpson plan -- which would slash Social Security and Medicare benefits while lowering corporate taxes -- went down in flames last night.

    In fact, almost every candidate who was personally endorsed by the authors of the plan was defeated. link

    Unfortunately this is what Obama chose in his victory speech to detail as the specific actions he would focus on:

    And in the coming weeks and months, I am looking forward to reaching out and working with leaders of both parties to meet the challenges we can only solve together. Reducing our deficit. Reforming our tax code. Fixing our immigration system. Freeing ourselves from foreign oil. link

    It looks like Boehner is willing to concede just enough to get the additional tax cuts (under the guise of tax reform) and cuts to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and domestic programs.

    I'll say this about O (none / 0) (#5)
    by sj on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 09:54:11 AM EST
    He has been honest about this from the very beginning.  Since the primaries he has openly had a target on Medicare and Social Security. So when digby says this:
    A Grand Bargain will not buy him a moment's worth of credibility, so he'd better believe in it completely on the merits --- they [the Republicans] will make sure his legacy will be the president who killed the safety net. After all, their base is elderly, white people who are dependent on social security and medicare. You don't think they are going to take responsibility for that, do you?
    emphasis mine.

    I haven't read her regularly for years now.  Is there any doubt in her mind that O believes completely in entitlement "reform" and that this is where his energy is going to go for the next four years?

    Also, is there no more commenting on her site?  I know she had a lot of trolls which is one reason I stopped going over there.


    Harry Reid Said on Wednesday (none / 0) (#6)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 09:57:20 AM EST
    "We are not going to mess with Social Security."

    Which in Pol Speak Means: (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:38:51 PM EST
    "We're probably gonna mess with Social Security."

    You took the words right outta my mouth (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 01:41:12 PM EST
    What Harry Reid said (none / 0) (#50)
    by MO Blue on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 02:36:29 PM EST
    U.S. Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nev., said today there will be a "public option" in whatever health insurance reform bill comes out of Congress.

    "We are going to have a public option before this bill goes to the president's desk," Reid said in a conference call with constituents, referring to some kind of government plan.

    ."I believe the public option is so vitally important to create a level playing field and prevent the insurance companies from taking advantage of us," he said.


    WASHINGTON (AP) -- Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said Tuesday that Democrats won't approve more money for the Iraq war this year unless President Bush agrees to begin bringing troops home.

    By the end of the week, the House and Senate planned to vote on a $50 billion measure for operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. The bill would require Bush to initiate troop withdrawals immediately with the goal of ending combat by December 2008. link

    If they're serious about "saving" (5.00 / 3) (#54)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 03:01:01 PM EST
    Medicare, and serious about a so-called "public option," I think it's time to give serious and focused consideration to opening Medicare up to the 55-to-64 age group; more and younger - and presumably, healthier - people in that pool would spread the risk.  

    I don't know that the premium level could be as low as Medicare's is, but it could be income-adjusted, and would surely be a godsend to those in that group who have been struggling with unemployment and the loss of insurance that may have accompanied it.

    The argument against it will, reliably, come from the private insurance lobby, which already knows that the success of an initial expansion of Medicare will surely result in the eventual calls to expand it further, to the point where - voila! - we have created a single-payer health care system  - and the private insurance companies go the way of the dinosaur.

    It would be nice to see this go beyond bumper-sticker talk; I don't know how much I can trust this talk from Harry, if at all.


    Info Please (none / 0) (#103)
    by BackFromOhio on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 12:28:18 PM EST
    I've been told that the ObamaCare plan moved $750 million in funds from Medicare to Medicaid. Makes sense to me in light of fact that here in NY, doctors are in a race to drop Medicare patients or discontinue accepting new ones.

    Anyone have facts here and any plan to stop the related Medicare bleeding?


    Moved from the costly & wasteful Advantage (none / 0) (#118)
    by christinep on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 03:48:36 PM EST
    supplement, I believe.  If that is accurate, it should have been moved.

    "We are not going to mess with... (none / 0) (#64)
    by unitron on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 04:38:55 PM EST
    ...Social Security."

    "That's what we have Republicans for."


    President Obama is responsibile for (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by MO Blue on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 10:12:46 AM EST
    Social Security being on the table.

    The Republicans, Speaker Boehner or Majority Leader Cantor did not call for Social Security cuts in the budget deal. The President of the United States called for that.....John Conyers

    Just so there is no confusion the president Rep.Conyers (D) was referring to was President Obama.


    And he just telegraphed that again (5.00 / 4) (#101)
    by shoephone on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 12:20:59 PM EST
    in the televised speech he's giving from the East Wing of the WH. Head fake: "Taxes have to be part of the policy. Spending cuts can't be the only way -- I'm not going to make students and seniors responsible for making up the whole difference."

    Did you catch that? Seniors aren't going to have to pay down the whole deficit. Isn't that generous of him? What he didn't say, of course, is that seniors shouldn't have to suffer cuts in social security at all. He's going to f*ck seniors over, regardless. Grand Bargain, here we come.

    The whole thing is a bunch of b.s. Get ready to lose your SS benefits. He made it very clear, if only people were paying attention.


    Just what I was afraid of... (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 12:31:31 PM EST
    A fake crisis leading to a predictable response from Obama, who has a death grip on a Grand Bargain that will be no bargain for anyone I know.

    I really have no words to express the extent of my anger, so I'm left to do this:



    Info Request #2 (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by BackFromOhio on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 12:50:29 PM EST
    I would like to know if, and if not, why not, Bill Clinton did not extract promises from Pres. Obama over saving social security, helping homeowners, etc. in exchange for all the campaigning bill did on Obama's behalf.  It would be great if a social science experiment could be devised to see how much of a difference Bill Clinton's endorsement and tireless campaigning made.

    Some have suggested over the last week that Pres. Obama use Bill Clinton to get what's needed from Congressional Repubs.  

    Anyone have any thoughts on these things?

    Please let's not fill pages of space on how Bill campaigned/endorsed to help his own image and HRC's chances in 2016.  That may be true.  But to me he should have insisted on certain concessions about pre-Obama Dem party traditions of supporting the social safety net (SS, food stamps, etc) and ....?


    PS (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by BackFromOhio on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 12:52:11 PM EST
    If there continues to be any inkling that Soc Security and Medicare etc. will be "on the table," how about a NY style hue and cry of the type that forced Mayor Blumberg to cancel the marathon so that generators and other resources would not be diverted from those without homes, power etc.?  

    Perhaps we could have (none / 0) (#117)
    by Zorba on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 01:18:57 AM EST
    an "Occupy Social Security and Medicare" movement, on a massive scale.

    Perhaps, if you wait just a bit (none / 0) (#119)
    by christinep on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 03:51:17 PM EST
    to see the outline, your "questions" might be answered.  But, perhaps, it is more fun to pit the two and invent the process beforehand, huh?

    This so-called "outline" that you're (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Anne on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 08:47:51 AM EST
    encouraging us all to wait for has been in place since Obama ran in 2008 - why do you keep ignoring that?  And along with the outline, there has been concerted and persistent effort these last four years to flesh out the details - or have you forgotten that it was Obama who established the Bowles-Simpson Commission, or that when it failed, continued to press its ideas and his desire to bring those ideas to fruition?

    No, he doesn't want to privatize, but there's a whole lot of stuff that can be done to these programs that don't involve any form of privatization - and those have been discussed here at TL at great length over the last four years.  Did you miss those discussions?

    The only way you could not be informed on this issue is if you had shut your eyes, closed your ears and refused to do so, which makes your "why don't we wait and see" comment laughable in its denial of reality.  It's not like that's not a show we've seen from you before, but there's simply no benefit to basking in the glow of re-election and pretending Obama isn't set on his Grand Bargain, when it's been made quite clear that plans are being made to weaken programs that have kept millions of people from poverty.

    Those behind it don't call it "weakening," they call it "fixing" or "reforming," but with one exception - raising the cap on income subject to the Social Security tax - the ideas being discussed will reduce benefits and weaken the programs.

    You know that - you just don't want to admit that you know that; I guess the Land of Denial is a much nicer place to live.


    The difference between then & now (none / 0) (#122)
    by christinep on Mon Nov 12, 2012 at 04:44:10 PM EST
    Navigating the situation confronting the newly-elected President through an unusually challenging first term to the  maturity and stature at the start of this second term.  

    No, I didn't  miss earlier positioning nor supposition.  What we have now, tho, is a very different leveraging position.  The President is definitely strengthened as to the foremost taxes issue.  I expect him to use that leverage advantage.  As for any broader deal, Anne, I'm willing to watch a bit more of the contours developing...particularly, the Defense Dept component and related offsets, give & take.


    It's up to (none / 0) (#104)
    by sj on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 12:30:37 PM EST
    Senator Bernie Sanders now because the President still does not have our back.  And, by extension, neither do Congressional Dems.  O is the leader of the party.  Can/will they really stand up to him?

    Maybe Elizabeth Warren (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by shoephone on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 12:44:40 PM EST
    will slap him around the head and set him straight.

    He hasn't changed at all. He's going for the Grand Bargain. I'm 53 years old, and I fully expect he will cut my SS benefits -- a system I have been paying into since 1975.


    It makes me feel sick (none / 0) (#110)
    by sj on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 01:02:52 PM EST
    that we actually have to worry about that.

    And Sen Gillibrand (none / 0) (#116)
    by BackFromOhio on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 07:33:09 PM EST
    What if one option is "raising the cap"? (none / 0) (#120)
    by christinep on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 03:52:12 PM EST
    The day after the election (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by sj on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:07:13 AM EST
    I saw Bob Woodward talking on one of the morning "news" magazines about the O's failed "Grand Bargain" that Boehner had accepted.  The one that (ironically) the Tea Party saved us from.  (For all the wrong reasons, IMO, but really who cares why?  A bullet was dodged.)

    Anyway, Woodward said that the reason O didn't get his GB is because he "overplayed his hand" and wanted [gasp!] revenue increases.  

    "Overplayed his hand."

    Apparently the only successful GB is a complete capitulation to the most extreme bat$hit crazy contingent of the Republicans.  Clearly that's the only way for a Democratic President to be successful.  Oy.

    Hold fast, Senator Sanders.

    Funny, (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by cal1942 on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:59:23 PM EST
    A few years ago Woodward said he wasn't very good at analyzing policy, etc.  So he's asked for analysis.  Geez.  It just never stops.

    Yesterday was such a great day (5.00 / 4) (#10)
    by lilburro on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:15:31 AM EST
    I feel like a weight has been lifted from my shoulders.  I haven't felt this anxiety free for a long time now.  In fact I even had the most pleasant dreams I have had for a while.  I was buying sunglasses for a friend on the beach.  I also slept 10 hours, I'm sure that helped, hah.

    Back into the political fray and the day to day fray soon...but for now just going to savor this for a little while more.

    Defeating Lee Atwater (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by lilburro on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:20:05 AM EST
    and Bill O'Reilly's traditional America crap is absolutely one of the great things about this election.

    As Bouie says here:

    Over the next week, I'll write about the details of Obama's victory, in particular his huge advantage with nonwhite voters--without historic margins (and turnout) among African Americans, Latinos, and Asian Americans, it's likely Obama would have failed in his quest for a second term. Indeed, it should be said that Republicans have themselves to blame for a good deal of this. If not for their categorical opposition to health-care reform, the Affordable Care Act would have never been passed in its current form. If not for their harsh approach to immigration, they might have won greater Latino support over the last four years. If not for their embrace of misogyny, they might have closed the gender gap. If not for their willingness to indulge the worst conspiracies about Obama, they might have made inroads with young people and college-educated voters.

    If not for their horrible positions on (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:43:00 AM EST
    every issue...they would have a chance.

    It really is nice to see it finally coming back to (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:54:54 AM EST
    bite them. Very satisfying. 10 years ago it did not even occur to me that such a thing could happen largely by force of numbers. I kept looking for a change of heart on their part which plainly was not going to happen.

    Even here (none / 0) (#67)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 05:14:06 PM EST
    in GA there are a lot of republicans who finally realizing what a disaster the GOP has become. The problem is, so they tell me, the voters that they have. And really that is the truth. How are you going to move your party into the 21st century when your base largely consists of elderly southern segregationists. The moderates are just sitting back and waiting for some more losses to come around before they make their move.

    Well... (none / 0) (#82)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 09:30:07 AM EST
    ...the voters might be capable of this or that, but I blame the polls and a certainly News Station.  Benghazi is the good example, you think your average republican voters gives a damn about Benghazi, but Mitt and Fox News decided this was a 'real' scandal.

    The voters aren't going out to the black and poor parts of town to observe, no the polls are telling them they are a bunch of lazy moochers driving Cadillacs and trading food stamps for crack.

    Ditto for immigration, not really a hot topic 15 years ago, then the polls on the right decided that their racial animosity could be poked and prodded for political gain.

    No republican voter decided Obama wasn't a US a US citizen, that he was Muslim, a socialist, a communist, and on and on.  They were spoon fed that garbage and now they are going to act like it's not them, it's their constituents.  Pleaze.

    I am not saying their constituents share no blame, but without people poking the hatred, it wouldn't be nearly as ridiculous as it currently is.

    But I will give them one thing, no matter the circumstance, they are never to blame for anything.


    Wouldn't that require... (none / 0) (#68)
    by unitron on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 06:03:14 PM EST
    ...having hearts to begin with?

    I was entertaining the notion of (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:49:31 AM EST
    just going over the 'fiscal cliff' this morning as I was listening to NPR. That would be my choice too. But whoever they had on NPR was using the big 'it will kill the economy' scare tactic.

    I at first thought Obama wants it off the table before the New Year, just to get it out of the way. But on the other hand, he has a foreign trip scheduled later this month, so maybe he is just going to let it play out.

    Donal Trump Tweet (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 11:57:28 AM EST
    Congrats to @KarlRove on blowing $400 million cycle. Every race @CrossroadsGPS ran ads in, the Republicans lost. What a waste of money.

    Too funny.

    Is it possible (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by sj on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:22:34 PM EST
    that Karl Rove is an even bigger laughingstock than Donald Trump?

    Yes it is, if only because Stephen Colbert's (none / 0) (#42)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:40:30 PM EST
    Ham Rove - a canned ham with wireframe glasses - is my favorite political sight gag.

    Turd Blossom ? (none / 0) (#51)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 02:42:21 PM EST
    If it makes them feel better.... (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:39:00 PM EST
    From WP:
    "A lot of people feel like Christie hurt, that we definitely lost four or five points between the storm and Chris Christie giving Obama a chance to be bigger than life," said one of Romney's biggest fundraisers, who requested anonymity to speak candidly.

    4 or 5 points? Puhlease. I'd say .5 points tops.

    In which I plug my local tourist destination (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:57:36 PM EST
    Last night I got to take a preview tour of part of the new Disneyworld Fantasyland addition. So far they have completed a Beauty and the Beast village with the Beast's castle and some very cool restaurants, and a Little Mermaid ride that is a low speed ride in clamsheels through Ariel's world. I have had no reason to visit Fantasyland for years since the rides have been so old and non-adult fun. But Beauty and the Beast is my favorite Disney flick, and this new addition is beautiful, with truly amazing tech affects in the attractions. In Belle's cabin, a magic mirror dissolves into a video screen that has fire effects and then expands into the entrance door to the castle rooms. The Little Mermaid ride visuals are state of the art as well. The 'Be Our Guest' restaurant is the ballroom from Beauty and the Beast. There is also a Gaston's Tavern in the village square, very cute, and uses antlers in all of its decorating, as the song goes.

    Still to come is a 7 dwarfs mining roller coaster that is still being built.

    So thank your Orlando service economy for coming out for Obama and throw some vacation dollars our way!

    9 y.o. girls is football rushing prodigy (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Dadler on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 04:05:29 PM EST
    Wow (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by lilburro on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 08:44:25 PM EST
    this video of Obama thanking his campaign staff is wonderful.  His emotion is touching.  And I think it applies to anyone who involved themselves in his campaigns.  That's real appreciation and it makes me feel great.  :)  Still chasing that post election high over here!!

    Facebooked (none / 0) (#84)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 09:44:03 AM EST
    After I facebooked the story at Forbes about how the Romney interns didn't even have cabfare home, the campaign credit cards had been turned off at midnight something after his defeat.  My husband insisted that Romney couldn't have been responsible, as if Mitt Romney was a campaign virgin.  What am I gonna do with this soldier guy?

    If Seamus was still alive (none / 0) (#85)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 09:44:41 AM EST
    Romney would have kicked him when he got home :)

    This was a shocker on Morning Joe (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 09:51:17 AM EST
    What made me bust up though was when Joe asks Frum passionately to name names.  Who was insisting within the Republican Entertainment Complex that everything was fine and that Romney could win when Republican insiders knew the race had been lost weeks ago?  Uhmmmmm, lemme see here....uhhhh...Joe Scarborough and uhmmm


    Sorry, my link doesn't go to the right place (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 10:40:39 AM EST

    And I can't get it to link properly.  It was Joe Scarborough talking with David Frum and others about something they were calling the Republican Entertainment Complex.


    You Link is Fine (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 12:01:40 PM EST
    The Republican Entertainment Complex talk starts around the 12 minute mark.

    I love the how the conservatives all agree that conservatives have been lied to and fleeced by the Republican Entertainment Complex, without any hint of irony.  They are on a talk show, pimping a book, and they all make rather large salaries.... drum roll... entertaining conservatives.

    Some might even call it fleecing considering the book is about why Romney lost and it's been what, 60 hours since the results were known.  Either someone knew he was going to lose, or they wrote and published a book in 3 days.


    Great article in the Atlantic about how Faux Noise (none / 0) (#113)
    by Angel on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 03:29:43 PM EST
    misinforming their audience finally got them in trouble.

    I heard Frum talk on a CSPan show (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by ruffian on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 11:30:17 AM EST
    and he was very good. the GOP would be wise to listen to him, but of course they will not.

    He's always such a tool though (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 11:55:23 AM EST
    And comes out with this e-book two days after the election, during which he wasn't always honest with the Republicans listening to him before election night either.  Will any of them notice?

    He has set himself up to the princess of this ball though, his gown is stunning :)


    My last line..I realized I wrote all wrong (none / 0) (#98)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 11:59:19 AM EST
    He has set himself up to be the princess of this BAWL, his two day old gown is stunning.

    Oh, jeez...I see Obama's planning to (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 12:15:42 PM EST
    speak on the "fiscal cliff;" not sure I can watch, since I'm pretty sure he's completely bought in to something he doesn't have to.  Why do I see looming the squandering of electoral oomph and the decision to stay in the comfort zone of right-of-center?

    Paul Krugman chips in his two cents:

    Mr. Obama should hang tough, declaring himself willing, if necessary, to hold his ground even at the cost of letting his opponents inflict damage on a still-shaky economy. And this is definitely no time to negotiate a "grand bargain" on the budget that snatches defeat from the jaws of victory [...]

    Republicans are trying, for the third time since he took office, to use economic blackmail to achieve a goal they lack the votes to achieve through the normal legislative process. In particular, they want to extend the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, even though the nation can't afford to make those tax cuts permanent and the public believes that taxes on the rich should go up -- and they're threatening to block any deal on anything else unless they get their way. So they are, in effect, threatening to tank the economy unless their demands are met.

    Mr. Obama essentially surrendered in the face of similar tactics at the end of 2010, extending low taxes on the rich for two more years. He made significant concessions again in 2011, when Republicans threatened to create financial chaos by refusing to raise the debt ceiling. And the current potential crisis is the legacy of those past concessions.

    Well, this has to stop -- unless we want hostage-taking, the threat of making the nation ungovernable, to become a standard part of our political process.

    I wish this wasn't turning into a case of us having to take medicine so the powers-that-be can get better.  Or to make an analogy that most parents can relate to, making your kid put on a sweatshirt because you're cold.

    See my comment above (none / 0) (#102)
    by shoephone on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 12:22:09 PM EST
    The downside of Obamacare: (3.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:09:24 AM EST
    For all its attacks on wealth and Big Business, the reality of the Obama Administrations is it has been a boon to the politically-connected rich. Big Government loves Big Business.... The latest beneficiary of Obama's Big Government is Big Hospital, one of the most powerful lobbies (along with Big Pharma and Big Insurance) behind Obamacare.

    Cuban Americans (none / 0) (#12)
    by CoralGables on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:30:01 AM EST
    it was noted on an earlier thread that Cuban American Latinos didn't go for Obama, but the truth is in the details...

    Cuban-Americans have never voted for the Dem Presidential candidate. Prior to Tuesday the best ever was by Clinton with 35%.

    There were two exit polls Tuesday (Pew Research and Fox News) that actually showed Obama winning the Cuban American vote 49-47. The Miami Herald exit poll had it 50-47 in favor of Romney.

    *I'll note here that the Herald poll of Florida just prior to the election also had Romney taking Florida by 5 points.

    So at a minimum Obama did far better than any Dem presidential candidate ever (including himself in 2008). And this partially explains the huge increase in votes for Obama in Dade County which was the biggest increase by county for Obama not just in Florida, but in the entire nation on Tuesday.

    just a note (none / 0) (#75)
    by Amiss on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 09:48:18 PM EST
    The Miami Herald has backed Romney from the beginning. I used to work for a paper that was a sister paper to the Herald many years ago. I have no trust in them for reasons of my own. Many other Fla. News sources reported that the Puerto. Rican Americans along the I-4 corridor near and around Orlando were the ones making the difference.
    It is difficult for me to believe after voting for so many Republicans for so many years that the just abruptly changed their feelings on women's rights over their own bodies and switched party votes.

    CNN just announced (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Amiss on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 02:45:45 AM EST
    That Obama has indeed carried the cuban-american vote.

    There is a definite age distribution (none / 0) (#79)
    by CoralGables on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 07:48:51 AM EST
    in the splitting of the Cuban-American vote with the oldest still solidly Republican. The problem for Republicans in Miami is they just aren't creating enough old angry Cuban-Americans anymore.

    The younger generation of Cuban-Americans still identify as Cuban-American but don't eat and breath Castro.

    *Humorous anecdote
    My married neighbors, late 20's 2nd generation Cuban-Americans, and 2 of their parents were outside last Saturday morning and we were all chatting friendly politics.

    The father in law looked at me and said, the younger ones aren't like us, they all like Obama. His wife looked at him and said...ummm, Juan he's waiting for us to leave so he doesn't offend you when he puts his Obama yard sign back up.

    Oh nooooo he said, We're outnumbered 3-2. (and that was just about the winning Obama percentage in Miami)


    Just watched an interview (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Amiss on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 11:06:57 AM EST
    with our APPOINTED Secretary of State. A man appointed by someone known to have defrauded Medicare.
    This arse REFUSED to apologize to the people of Fla. He was asked repeatedly if he did not want to apologize to the people, and he ignored the question. Rick Scott needs to go, along with his crooked cronies that he has put into office. He even tried to say that the reduction in the number of days from 14 to 8 had no effect. There are precincts that are STILL counting votes, for goodness sakes!

    Missed the first 20 minutes of Armando... (none / 0) (#13)
    by magster on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:31:14 AM EST
    watching replays of Jon Stewart last night. What did I miss?

    Mostly a review of the GOP problems with (none / 0) (#15)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:41:18 AM EST
    non old white man voters. How do they get out of the hole they have dug for themselves with the Lee Atwater strategy?

    First, they ought to jettison the wingbats. (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 02:51:24 PM EST
    The Republican National Committee really needs to to take a good, hard look at themselves, and assess their present political situation rationally and soberly. Anf quite honestly, if they want to see what their future portends if they remain on this present trajectory, they need only examine the self-marginalization of the California GOP that's taken place over the past 18 years.

    In 1994, to gin up the white vote in what looked to be a close election year, Gov. Pete Wilson and the CA GOP successfully drafted, qualified and flogged Prop. 187 as a ballot initiative, marketing it to white suburbanites and residents of the Central Valley under the slogan, "Save Our State" (or "SOS").  It sought to establish a statewide citizenship screening system, and would bar undocumented immigrants from access to health care, education and social services in the state.

    Proposition 187 was obviously xenophobic, its campaign was ugly, and it worked for Republicans like a charm, passing with nearly 60% of the vote.

    Nedless to say, its coattails were significant, especially in that GOP wave election year. Pete Wilson was re-elected governor by a similarly wide margin over Kathleen Brown (the current governor's sister). Republicans also held the lieutenant governor's office and five of the other six statewide elected offices, i.e., Secretary of State, Treasurer, Insurance Commissioner, etc. The GOP enjoyed a 46-34 majority in both the State Assembly and held a 23-17 margin in State Senate. 26 members of the 52-member California delegation to the U.S. House were also Republican.

    This proved to be was the GOP's high-water mark in modern California politics, and in retrospect, Prop. 187 also sealed the GOP's present fate.

    The political events of 1994 proved to be a huge political wake-up call to California's Latinos, which in 1994 comprised only about 4% of the state's electorate. By 2002, their share of that electorate had nearly quadrupled, thanks to massive voter registration drives within the communities and churches.

    Now, fast forward to 2012. Only two years earlier, Democrats siezed a tight grip on all eight statewide elective offices, from the governor on down to the state education superintendent. And per Tuesday's election, the Republicans' share of California's 53-member U.S. House delegation has dwindled to only 15 members. Further, the GOP now holds only 26 of 80 seats in the State Assembly, and only 11 of 40 in the State Senate.

    Bluntly stated, that's what the Republicans' future holds nationwide, until they finally wise up and ditch the white-wing crackpot stuff that freaks many more people out than it can ever possibly attract at this point.



    It's easy for Republican pundits to say (none / 0) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:42:29 AM EST
    The Republican Party must embrace Latinos or never win again outside the Confederacy, it is much harder to get their base to embrace Latinos.  He talked about Bush and Rove and Perry being attacked for attempting it.  Says that it is isn't possible for the Repub party to accomplish the goal by the next election.  It looks pretty bleak for them as to when they could get a Latino embrace done.

    They can't just flip a switch and (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:44:34 AM EST
    tell their voters to stop hating dark(er) skinned people. Not after they have been playing on that hate for 35 years.

    I didn't know about what happen (none / 0) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:37:44 AM EST
    at the University of Mississippi until listening to Armando's show.  Went to a girls night wine tasting last night and my new Democrat friend here said that at least we didn't live in Mississippi, I had no idea what she was alluding to.  My daughter was with me for girl's night, but she didn't share anything about what happened among her age group here yesterday.  White Southerners who embrace this racism are detroying the potential of their communities and they are stunting the potential of every child who lives here to include their own.

    When my daughter and I drove home last night my daughter told me that when she could not get ahold me yesterday morning she had a moment of anxiety that someone here had harmed me because of my beliefs and what I put on my facebook.  Jesus Christ!  I hate living down here!

    Okay, you're talking all around "it" (none / 0) (#17)
    by sj on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:42:41 AM EST
    without actually talking about "it".

    What actually happened at the University of Mississippi?  I can't listen to the radio here.


    At a rally after the election results came in (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:46:06 AM EST
    students burned signs and pictures of Obama, and used racial epithets.

    Buwhahahahahaha (none / 0) (#25)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:49:52 AM EST
    The Chancellor says they are ashamed of the actions of a few students......400 hundred phucking students

    I'm just learning details myself (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:46:17 AM EST
    Starting with the Times.

    Disturbingly ironic, since I just watched... (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Dadler on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:49:59 AM EST
    ...a new "30 For 30" documentary called The Ghosts of Ole Miss (link).

    Reflects just so well on Red America.. (none / 0) (#59)
    by jondee on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 03:43:54 PM EST
    really boosts the folk's credibility..

    And those are some of ones persuing higher education (which, in a couple more years will be a euphemism for learning secret Klan rituals.)


    I have lived through (none / 0) (#76)
    by Amiss on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:09:20 PM EST
    observing KKK Ralph's. First was seeing them march up the Apalachee Parkway and burn a cross on the capital lawn. The last was in the early 80's I lived in a tiny town on Lake Seminole, this rally was held in broad open daylight in an open field next to a church.
     Not related, local newscasters just announced Fla.IS going Obama by 53,000 votes.
    Our Jax Beach Democratic mayor is less than 50 votes ahead of the Republic. Opponent.

    Ralph supposed to be rallies (none / 0) (#93)
    by Amiss on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 11:16:16 AM EST

    right wing talk radio.. (none / 0) (#95)
    by jondee on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 11:26:37 AM EST
    these unhinged jackdaws seem intent on doing an American impersonation of Hutu radio propagandists whipping the young men into a machete-weilding frenzy..

    The (relatively) sane voices on the Right that we sometimes hear on NPR and PBS, STILL don't seem to be ready to publicly acknowledge that these Father Coughlins exhorting-the-ground-troops aren't good for country, or, in the long run, good for their own party.


    Every time I visit my dad in Rome, GA... (none / 0) (#23)
    by Dadler on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:47:00 AM EST
    ...I am amazed my little brother and sister (mostly my brother) survived being raised in Dixie.  My brother had the advantage of having a father who was raised Orthodox Jewish on the lower east side of Manhattan during the Depression, and who knows what REAL shit it like, and he always stood up from my kid brother.  I remember when bro got sent home from school on a suspension because he wore a Marilyn Manson shirt one day. My father marched down to the school and read them the riot act, threatening to sue if they didn't rescind the suspension. Which they did. I still don't know how my old man has survived down there for a quarter century after lives in NYC, Chicago and L.A.  But he's a tripper of the old school sort.  

    I like Rome (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 11:00:33 AM EST
    I know 2 different serious doggy people there and have visited them.  I never got a flavor for what the area was like politically though.  Where Josh has his surgeries in Atlanta though they love Obama, I don't know if Atlanta as a whole does but it sure seemed like it did on the news when Obama was visiting and we were there.

    Atlanta is great (none / 0) (#30)
    by Dadler on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 11:08:32 AM EST
    It's a melting pot big city with none of the Dixie bullsh*t.  But get outta the city by a mile and watch out, it gets very old school confederate. As for Rome, well, I love it too in a certain way, but you can basically cross the river and realize, oh, I get it, here's where the black folk live, kind of like Soweto.  Not that bad obviously, but still obvious.  My stepmom ended up selling her half of a decent business to her partner, who was also her neighbor and whose son my bro's best buddy, because partner/neighbor was just a little too free and easy with the n*gger and sp*c jokes. Not quite the deep south, but getting toward that end.  Still, a lot of great people, beautiful country, Berry College is amazing to drive around (shot some of Dead Poets Society there), and very different in a good way from the town I first ventured to back in the mid 80s, when you couldn't find Mexican food and a person from India might as well have been from Mars.  Today, they live next door. Which makes a lot of crackers crumble, but change is a tough cookie, and some people don't make it. Peace, my friend.

    I understand completely (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 11:12:09 AM EST
    There's Birmingham, and then there's "outer Birmingham" where I live :)

    Also, my old man is a regular columnist... (none / 0) (#32)
    by Dadler on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 11:12:20 AM EST
    ...in the local paper, or was more frequently until a few years back. He was the only regular contributor who didn't get a little photo of themselves with their byline, because commie Jew bastard from NYC and Hollywood that he is, the death threats from rednecks started early and came with regularity.

    I was an inch away (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by CoralGables on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 11:20:00 AM EST
    from going to school at Berry College just outside of Rome. One of the prettiest campuses I've ever seen. They needed me to provide a letter from my employer as a condition of my acceptance but my employer didn't know I was leaving. After a little back and forth as to whether I could offer anything as a substitute, I decided it was far easier to take the offer from the University of Florida.

    Kind of an oddly magical campus (none / 0) (#35)
    by Dadler on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 11:30:58 AM EST
    There's that huge old water wheel on the backroads, and then, of course, there's Martha Berry's House o' Dreams (link).  As well as the legend of her supposed affair with Henry Ford.

    "The world's largest continguous (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 01:24:50 PM EST



    I knew that (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Dadler on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 01:45:06 PM EST
    Thanks for reminding me. It really is huge. I recall an old schoolhouse in the woods called Possum Trot, complete with a quickly vanishing graveyard next to it. Something so additionally haunting about gravestones so weathered and old you can't quite read the inscriptions.



    (Personal note: My little brother got married last summer on the back side of the Oak Hill Plantation Home.)


    Which was one of one reasons (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by CoralGables on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 03:00:34 PM EST
    it was on my list. I did a lot of long distance running back then and the campus was absolutely made for that.

    speaking of houses (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Amiss on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 02:25:54 AM EST
    Ma Barker's house is for sale.It's along the Oklawaha river I believe near UF area of the state.
    News in: Fla.finally has at least a Democratic Senate again! Fla. House is still Repubs, but we are making baby steps.

    So Florida is more blue than Wisconsin (none / 0) (#83)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 09:36:43 AM EST
    where both houses of the legislature, in addition to the governorship and the state Supreme Court, i.e., each and every branch of government, went to the Republicans this week.

    Florida is turning blue, Wisconsin has gone redder than ever, and in other news: up is down.


    I graduated (none / 0) (#94)
    by Amiss on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 11:25:47 AM EST
    from H.S. in 1966, and that was the first year our H.S.  was integrated. Might I say their idea of integration was 2 Juniors,  and we had 350 in our Senior class. Also of note is the fact that our H.S. included grades 7-12.

    Armando are you playing marbles? (none / 0) (#20)
    by lilburro on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:45:38 AM EST
    Sound quality is really good today, clear and not choppy, but there is a little background noise.  

    What is that? (none / 0) (#29)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 11:01:13 AM EST
    Is it food?  Is it hard candy?

    Justice is yelling (none / 0) (#33)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 11:13:58 AM EST

    I love these little kids (none / 0) (#38)
    by Dadler on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:03:44 PM EST
    This is all Michelle Obama's fault, y'know! (none / 0) (#55)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 03:18:28 PM EST
    Here, Mickey D's -- supersize THIS:

    Los Angeles Times | November 8, 2012
    McDonald's monthly sales fall for first time in nine years -- "For the first time since April 2003, monthly sales at McDonald's Corp. went down instead of up, falling 1.8% in October at stores open more than a year. The fast-food giant known for innovating its way through the recession while competitors lagged has lately lost some of its momentum. Last month, the company said its profit for the third quarter tumbled nearly 4% amid a stronger dollar and brutal U.S. competition after sliding 4.5% in the prior quarter. [...] McDonald's stock was down as much as 1% to $85.96 a share in morning trading in New York."

    Blame her plus last (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by brodie on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 03:30:51 PM EST
    month here at TL I was seen talking down their food.

    Probably those two factors I'd guess.


    How did you talk it down? (none / 0) (#57)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 03:39:34 PM EST
    "Please, put down that Happy Meal! You have your whole new Extra Value menu ahead of you!"



    Well I badmouthed their (none / 0) (#69)
    by brodie on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 06:03:59 PM EST
    Filet-Eau-Fish both for its overserving of tartar sauce and for its overall lack of nutritional value -- failing to include a blade of lettuce and maybe a slice of tomato in between more healthy whole grain buns.

    Vicious attack I know, but someone had to say it, finally.  I just didn't consider the rather immediate adverse financial impact of my well-intended posting.

    Probably opened myself to lawsuit.  Food disparagement with reckless disregard for the economic consequences on a well-established corporate citizen.


    Don't forget what happened to Oprah. (none / 0) (#72)
    by caseyOR on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 07:11:01 PM EST
    Remember back in the late "90s when Oprah was sued for defamation by an association of Texas cattle feedlot owners?  She had a guest on her show who was discussing the incidence of mad cow in the U.S. After hearing what he had to say Oprah made a comment to the effect that now she was never going eat another burger inner life.

    The Texas cattle people sued. The case went to trial in Amarillo. Oprah was acquitted.

    One of the very worst things to come from that trial? That is where Oprah met a jury consultant working for her defense team and took a shine to him. That consultant was Dr. Phil.


    Just like the GOP...they will blame everything (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 03:40:22 PM EST
    but their bad product.

    "Skyfall": Best James Bond movie ever? (none / 0) (#61)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 04:09:18 PM EST
    We really can't answer that until we see it for ourselves, but that said, the 23rd entry in the venerable film series recently opened in London to tremendous critical acclaim, and is generating enormous advance buzz ahead of its opening weekend in the United States and Canada.

    And for the very first time in the series' 50-year history, there's serious Oscar talk not just for its technolocial aspects, but potential nominations for Best Picture, for Sam Mendes as director, Roger Deakins as cinematographer, and for the respective supporting performances for Javier Bardem as the villain and Judi Dench as "M." In particular, Dench's role has become the plot's focal point, in which M is now the target of a personal vendetta being conducted by a disaffected MI6 agent:

    "This is the seventh time Judi Dench has played the enigmatic spy-chief M. But it is only in this storming new Bond movie that her M has really been all that she could be. Under the stylish direction of Sam Mendes, Dench's M is quite simply the Bond girl to end all Bond girls. Watching this, I thought: of course. How could I have missed it? The real tension isn't with Moneypenny, but with the boss herself. Now M is an imperious, subtly oedipal intelligence-matriarch with the double-O boys under her thumb. She's treating them mean. She's keeping them keen. And she is rewarded with passionate loyalty, varying with smouldering resentment. It's a combination with its own unspoken eroticism, and it has also created the conditions for one of the most memorable Bond villains in recent times. M demands more and more from her agents, with less and less concern for their safety."

    I have to admit, I've been jaded by Bond films of late, but "Casino Royale" got my attention, and this movie sounds very intriguing. And honestly, after being terribly let down by the utter predictability of Denzel Washington's "Flight" following its admittedly very riveting beginning, I'm ready to see a movie that proves more than a match for its hype.

    I might even see this one (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 04:43:29 PM EST
    IMO, Daniel Craig is the best Bond (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by caseyOR on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 05:01:25 PM EST
    since Sean Connery turned in his license to kill. And Judi Dench is the very best M ever.

    I liked Casino Royale a lot. Was so-so on the Quantum of Solace because I found the script weak.

    I am excited about Skyfall. If it lives up to half hype I'll love it.


    Well, from what I've heard and read, ... (none / 0) (#74)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 09:30:00 PM EST
    ... Judi Dench's performance as M under fire is astonishing. She's stepping out from behind her desk and is elevated to co-star status, and the storyline actually pivots on her past coming back to haunt her, with her agents paying dearly and Bond's loyalty to her tested.

    My older sister lives in southern France outside Nice, and she and her husband saw Skyfall last week. She said while it has all the harrowing stunt play and gadgetry that we've come to love and expect in Bond films, this is every bit a plot-driven movie, and its characters are much more complex and three-dimensional in tone and context than has usually been the case in any of its predecessors in the series.

    Further, she noted that while the story opens in Istanbul, and heads off to China for a little bit, it's actually set in London and Britain, for the most part eschewing the exotic locales to remain close to home.


    Uh-oh. Hide the oxycontin. (none / 0) (#62)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 04:10:11 PM EST
    Limbaugh still having a mental breakdown today.

    "Obama treats women voters like vag*nas!"

    oh puke! (none / 0) (#71)
    by DFLer on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 07:01:33 PM EST
    Gimme mah Petrol (none / 0) (#63)
    by vicndabx on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 04:36:58 PM EST
    Odd/even day gas rationing in effect in NY.

    The only person I know (none / 0) (#70)
    by CoralGables on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 06:34:32 PM EST
    that lives in Manhattan probably doesn't even realize they have instituted odd/even rationing. She's lived there for 16 years and never owned a car. Her company provided her one once but she returned it after just a couple months. Said it cost too much to park it and she never drove it.

    Someone the other day said something about how (none / 0) (#81)
    by Angel on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 08:31:57 AM EST
    Franklin Graham had messed up his father's legacy....  Sally Quinn has a good read in the Wash Post about him and his support of Romney.