Wednesday Open Thread

Here's an open thread, all topics welcome, election-related or not.

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    This evening will be immeasurably (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Anne on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 03:00:46 PM EST
    improved by the absence of ads for the ballot measures in MD - most notably the expanded gambling one - and the silence of a phone not ringing with robo-call after robo-call.

    Almost looking forward to the Geico Gecko.  


    Better the Geico (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Zorba on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 03:10:48 PM EST
    Gecko than Progressive's Flo.  She drives me crazy.    ;-)

    I like the Flo ads! and think that she is (none / 0) (#50)
    by DFLer on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 06:31:59 PM EST
    cute as a button.

    Way too perky (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Zorba on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 07:18:46 PM EST
    I can't stand "perky."

    I'm with you, Zorba. i find perky to be (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by caseyOR on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 08:53:32 PM EST
    very annoying.

    yeah..perky bad (none / 0) (#102)
    by DFLer on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 07:14:37 AM EST
    but funny good....
    too perky on purpose...part of the funny.

    How is your rightie co-worker holding up? (none / 0) (#5)
    by ruffian on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 03:28:12 PM EST
    Deathly quiet...not even whimpering. (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by Anne on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 03:37:51 PM EST
    All I heard him say today was (1) "does anyone have two fives for a ten" (he bet someone in the office $5.00 that Romney/Ryan would win Wisconsin) and (2) "it hurts too much to cry."

    Oh - I heard him say one other thing - something to the effect that the polls had been rigged.  I wanted to ask, "you mean the ones that said Romney would win, or the ones that had the race too close to call?"  But it felt too much like pulling the wings off a fly so I let it go; I was afraid if I said "Nate Silver," he'd fall over dead.

    He really thought Romney was going to pull it out, so I think he's in shock.

    He'll get going on his usual whining and foot-stamping soon enough, so I'm enjoying this - really, really enjoying this - while it lasts!


    You were way too nice. I would have been chanting (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Angel on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 04:35:13 PM EST
    Nate Silver...Nate Silver...Nate Silver...just quietly enough for him to hear me, then gradually increasing the volume into a crescendo until he lost it.    

    I too have great respect (none / 0) (#17)
    by NYShooter on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 04:48:19 PM EST
    for Nate Silver, but beyond him, the polling industry in total seems to have reached a level of sophistication, and accuracy, that's truly amazing.

    Towards the end, something like 19 out of 20 scored bullseyes.

    (of course, I'm speaking about legitimate, agenda free, polling co's.)


    Sadly it seems most aviation officers are (none / 0) (#101)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 06:52:52 AM EST
    Republican slurping hourly on Fox News.  My husband met with his frisbee team yesterday morning to play and it was like a funeral.  He couldn't believe how blindsided the wingers were.  He tried to cheer the worst winger up by telling him to look on the bright side, Obama can never ever ever get re-elected again.

    It is amazing (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 07:57:31 AM EST
    how the echo chamber really has ended up deflating these people more than if it had just told them the truth. All I heard from the Republicans was that the polls were biased against Romney. Well, in the end I guess they never realized that the polls have to be credible to stay in business and have forgotten about that Portrait of American poll that had to be shut down because it was so wrong back in 2000.

    Watching that crap makes them delusional (none / 0) (#112)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 08:02:58 AM EST
    These are bright people volunteering everyday to be brainwashed into stupidity.  I would have never believed it, but it's right there in front of my face.

    I'm listening to Waldeman right now, he's talking about how America is on the verge of destruction.  Making great jokes.


    I never really grasped the extent of it until (none / 0) (#142)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 02:13:08 PM EST
    now. You and MT put it very well.

    Puff .... and the energy voters... (none / 0) (#31)
    by Menanna on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:42:44 PM EST
    finally run out of power...

    I can redirect my useless obsession (none / 0) (#37)
    by magster on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:47:10 PM EST
    gene to where they usually reside now --- sports.

    True, espec football (none / 0) (#46)
    by brodie on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 06:16:45 PM EST
    Missed half the gridiron action this year due to other commitments. Though even there I'm finding myself enjoying it a little less as I see the game more through the lens of a bunch of oversized guys colliding recklessly into each other at unsafe speeds and angles.  

    Then there's my other useless obsession -- well some consider it useless, or a nonproductive use of my time:  reading about reincarnation cases.  

    For instance I recently learned that Nikola Tesla has been back for a while -- in more than one body.  Highly creative inventor Patrick Flanagan, and Nobel Prize winning astronomer Saul Permutter. Original Tesla spirit apparently too powerful to reincarnate as one person. Flanagan has quite a compelling and personal story.  

    Yes, I believe this stuff.  Wacko that I am ...


    One of the saddest events of the election (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by mogal on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 03:08:20 PM EST
    for me was the way Billy Graham was used by his son Franklin.  Rev. Billy Graham knew all the presidents beginning with Truman and  Rev. Graham never endorsed any candidate for elective office.

    In fact, in his biography Rev Graham had high praise for Pres. Clinton and the love he showed to those who had lost loved ones in the Oklahoma City bombing.  He said President Clinton was talking to them long after the TV lights were off.  Rev. Graham commented  that Clinton could have been an evangelist.  

    Maybe he was this election.

    Interested, as I've always equated (none / 0) (#23)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:12:59 PM EST
    Bill Clinton with southern evangelists.  Tent and sawdust trail version.  

    Yes (none / 0) (#34)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:44:25 PM EST
    you should read what some of the supporters of Billy Graham who are now former supporters are saying. They seem to think that it was his son Franklin that really did the endorsement. I was kind of shocked by this because I remember Graham really getting burned w/r/t Richard Nixon.

    I really understand where the critics are coming from even though I might not agree with them on any other issue and it's that if you think Mormonism is a cult then you don't just change your views because  a Mormon is the GOP nominee. There were people who were saying that they were going to vote for Romney until this whole thing came down.


    I've seen and heard enough of Franklin to know (none / 0) (#63)
    by CoralGables on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 07:57:42 PM EST
    that Franklin is no Billy.

    And this is something that I can never mention in family gatherings as a very close relative works for Franklin and it would be worse than talking politics at a wedding.


    I am not angry (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 03:15:18 PM EST
    I feel that a weight is off. I feel freer to criticize Obama.  Freer to think about our politics and society more objectively.

    He did it.

    With all I believe he had done, history, subtle racism and a lot of other factors would have gone into Obama being labeled a failure if he lost.

    And for a first black POTUS, that would be disaster.  Yeah, I think he's done a fantastic job and deserved another term.  But the fear of his failure was always there for me.  As it will be for women when we have our first potus or the LGBT community when we have our first gay potus.

    But now, I believe, I can let that fear go.  The hurdle is crossed.

    So yer ChillinBlackGuy now? (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 04:13:33 PM EST
    Still lots to do (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 08:41:44 AM EST
    but I can at least relax and little and maybe smile every other wednesday.

    LOL... (none / 0) (#12)
    by lilburro on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 04:17:07 PM EST
    I agree with you (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by lilburro on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 04:20:24 PM EST
    watching Obama lose would've been too painful.  As would seeing health care repealed (although it looked like we were going to have the Senate as of a month or so ago so I stopped worrying about that specifically).  

    It's also hard to imagine what it would've been like having the GOP in the WH responding to climate change.  We really need to do something about that, I hope Obama goes all out for it.


    You feel freer to criticize Obama? (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by shoephone on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:45:44 PM EST
    In which universe will that ever happen?

    The same (none / 0) (#115)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 08:42:14 AM EST
    universe it happened when I criticized him in over the years.

    You weren't listening.


    Hogwash (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 01:29:18 PM EST
    You've never criticized him even once while commenting on this blog. Maybe you criticized him somewhere else and got it confused with here??

    That's demonstrably incorrect (none / 0) (#158)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 05:28:12 PM EST

    The issue is that the caricature you have created is much easier to attack the the reality of what I am.  Afghanistan, DADT, etc.  I was all over Obama about those issues.  

    As a matter of fact I believe the first post I wrote here (or one of the first) was a list of the 20 issues I had with Obama).

    I just stopped talking about that stuff so much because there was no scarcity of Obama criticism but a scarcity of people providing the other perspective.

    But believe whatever you want.  There was a time here where I was literally the only person posting regularly who thought Obama would win in 2012.  This is right around the time that his approval numbers were 38%.  I said it'll get better, unemployment would be in the 7s, his approval would be in the 50's and he'd win.

    I don't really care about people not remembering me criticizing Obama.  I know I did.

    I just wish they'd remember how much abuse I got during that period.  Still stings a little.

    But winning helps.


    He's as white as he is black, ABS. (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 07:17:54 AM EST
    Nothing but your tacit acceptance of racist labels makes him otherwise.

    No (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 08:45:12 AM EST
    I call Obama black because Obama calls himself black.  He calls his kids black.

    I respect how he identifies himself more than I respect the way that anyone else would choose to identify him.  I mean how does that work:

    Obama: I am black.

    Anyone else: No you are not.

    Obama: Uhhhhhh. I think I should know.

    Anyone else: No you don't.

    Obama: [confused look]



    It's self-identification (none / 0) (#117)
    by sj on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 08:57:11 AM EST
    that's important.  I agree with you completely about that.  I identify "brown" although most people seeing me on the street would not do so.  My sister, being even more pale, and pink-skinned rather than olive like me, identifies "white".

    We're each right for ourselves.  So I was all with you.  Until your little ... skit.  How old are you, anyway?


    38 (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 01:11:49 PM EST
    But I watch a lot of Key and Peele.

    They are funny. See Obama's reaction to the election as processed through his anger translator:


    I need one of those.


    Okay, that's another reason (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by Towanda on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 05:25:23 PM EST
    to be glad that Obama has four more years:

    It also means four more years of Key & Peele's hilarious "translations."  I'm a fan, too -- but I had not thought to look up a victory vid.  Thanks!


    Thanks (none / 0) (#162)
    by sj on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 05:56:34 PM EST
    They ARE funny...

    My daughter is also half-white. (5.00 / 4) (#137)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 02:00:24 PM EST
    But honestly, when white people look at her, they see a Latina. She's been singled out for additional security checks at airports during road trips down South with her college volleyball team, while her white teammates are allowed to go on through. She's also been pulled over by the highway patrol in Texas while visiting her maternal grandparents, for what members of Corpus Christi's Latino community like to call "driving while Mexican."

    Not suprisingly, she self-identifies as Latina. That she is also German-Irish-Welsch is completely lost on most gringos.

    I have a couple uncles in rural northern Illinois who freely refer to Barack Obama as "that ni**er president." That's why Obama is black and not "half-white," and all your insistence to the contrary doesn't make it any different.

    Because racism and xenophobia are not genetic in origin. Both are acquired states of delusion which allow some people to see only what they want to see when looking upon someone else who's multi-ethnic, which is increasingly the case today.



    That's Precisely It Don (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 05:32:18 PM EST
    Obama wrote about it in his book.  He was treated like a black man from the day he was born, including all of the burdens that come with that.

    When he attains the one position that prevents people from looking down on him, THEN he's biracial and half white and half black.

    No.  He's black.  You are what you were when society treated you worst.  You never get that out of your system.  It is always with him.

    And me.


    While I was watching Obama and his (none / 0) (#138)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 02:04:55 PM EST
    wonderful family come on stage before his speech Tues. night, and then watching all the hugging on stage after his speech, I wondered if the racism would be even more strong had Barack Obama married a Caucasian.  Also note Jill Biden had on a sleeveless dress and wondered if there would be any comments on that, given the horror of Michelle Obama showing off her fabulous arms and shoulders.  

    Oculus, when watching the same (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by Menanna on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 02:23:48 PM EST
    I actually invisioned our next Dem ticket:  Hillary and Michelle

    I thought that also. I am very impressed with (none / 0) (#147)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 02:35:27 PM EST
    Michelle Obama, and, of course, with Hilary Clinton.  Wonder how Barack Obama would be as a "house husband"?

    B&B all the way (none / 0) (#152)
    by Menanna on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 03:43:21 PM EST
    for the Bill&Barock Foudation

    One thing I have not heard (none / 0) (#141)
    by the capstan on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 02:12:56 PM EST
    about Obama is the old meme (at least the old southron meme) that the reason he has been successful is that he is half-white.  Maybe that is proof that the 'Old South' is gone for good and along with it the days when a Negro's worth was measured partially by how much 'white' was in him.

    (Mulatto, quadroom, high yellow--they were all still used when I was born, back in the 'bad old days.'


    Get a clue, Mr. Natural, we are not a (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by caseyOR on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 03:42:10 PM EST
    post-racism country. Obama has dark skin. Therefore, in the eyes of just about everyone, he is a black man. If he self-identified as white many many people would be outraged.

    He gets treated as a black man, not a white man. He has experienced all the same cr@p society deals out to blacks, especially black males.

    So, knock it off. You are spewing cr@p.


    Obama would have been black enough... (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by unitron on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 03:57:11 PM EST
    ...for any lynching party that came upon him.

    I feel better too without having to think of (none / 0) (#6)
    by ruffian on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 03:34:19 PM EST
    everything in terms of re-election. I hope it frees Obama up in the same way. I don't expect a radical change, but taking more questions from the press and speaking more freely without fear of a career ending gaffe would be nice.

    Gaffe is the wrong word...rather a statement (none / 0) (#7)
    by ruffian on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 03:36:35 PM EST
    twisted and blown way up to score political points...you get my drift.

    May I just say that electricity is a (5.00 / 6) (#9)
    by vml68 on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 04:02:43 PM EST
    wondrous thing! Our power finally came back on today and I feel like a kid in a candy store. It has been snowing and really cold since morning, so I am really grateful that our power is back on.
    I cannot imagine how miserable it must be for those who still do not have power or heat. I hope they make it through this Noreaster Ok.

    I am trying to catch up on all the news I have missed out on these past 10 days. In addition to losing power, we had no cell phone service, wifi, etc either. It is an odd feeling being involuntarily completely cut off from the world. The first three days, there were some serious withdrawal symptoms since I could not feed my internet addiction.... :-) But, I intend to make up for it now.

    Your user name has been on our fingers, (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 04:07:46 PM EST
    with one commenter worrying that you had not checked back in here.  

    I will catch up on the previous posts in the next (none / 0) (#33)
    by vml68 on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:44:15 PM EST
    couple of days. Now you've got me curious to see who has been worrying about me.

    I think oculus is referring to me, vml. (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by caseyOR on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 06:09:02 PM EST
    I was kind of concerned when days went by and we had no word. So, I am very happy to hear from you. kdog was getting ready to row across the Hudson and search for you if we didn't hear soon.

    And yes, electric power is a wondrous thing.


    That is really sweet of you Casey! (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by vml68 on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 07:15:17 PM EST
    For the first few days I could not even contact my family. My husband was in California for a conference and he was pretty frantic. He finally managed to get a text through to a guy he barely knew (they had exchanged business cards) who lives in the next building and had him come check on me. As soon as the airports were open again he flew home.

    Had I known kdog was going to come looking for me, I would have waited to post!!! I would have finally got to meet him.. ;-)


    Meeting kdog would certainly be cool, (none / 0) (#72)
    by caseyOR on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 08:52:18 PM EST
    but I don't know that it would be so cool that it is worth going without electricity any longer. ;-)

    Your husband must have been going nuts. I guess texting does can serve a purpose other than eliminating the need for teenagers to ever talk to each other.

    Now, I think yman is our only TLer who has not checked in. So, YMAN, if you can read this please let us know your status.


    Thanks (5.00 / 2) (#140)
    by Yman on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 02:10:14 PM EST
    We made it through Sandy, although our small, shore town was hit pretty hard .... lots of homes flooded and even washed away.  We sit on a (relatively) high spot in town and had no damage - what a difference a few feet makes!  Evacuated to PA until the power/heat are back on.  We have sporadic phone service here, and the extremely slow internet we're working with has been dedicated to work-related stuff.

    Thanks for asking ... good to hear everyone else has managed to check in!


    LOL, as much as I would love to meet kdog, (none / 0) (#79)
    by vml68 on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 09:25:53 PM EST
    I am not forgoing electricity for it. I just meant that I would have waited to post that I had the power back.

    My cell phone carrier is T-mobile and I have AT&T for my Ipad, both of which were not getting any signal after the storm. But those with Verizon were getting intermittent signals and were able to send and receive texts. But, it took a few hours for the messages to actually get to the recepient. One of my neighbours offered me his phone to send a text to my husband. I was really embarassed to admit that I had never texted and had to have him show me how to. He just looked at me like I was from another planet... :-)!
    I have an "unsmart" phone from the dark ages that is switched off most of the time. I hate talking on cell phones, so I barely use it and I have never felt the need to text anybody so far.

    If I remember right, Yman lives on the Jersey Shore. That was the hardest hit area, so I do hope he and his family are ok and he checks in soon.


    ::waves!:: (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by nycstray on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 04:33:59 PM EST
    Good to hear from you!!!

    How's your pup w/broken leg doing?


    ::waves back!:: (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by vml68 on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 06:55:30 PM EST
    Thank-you.... :-) It is good to be back.
    My pup will be ok hopefully. He has a metal plate and ten screws holding his bone together. Since the break was a lot worse than they could initially see on xrays, the surgeon told me that he was not comfortable that the screws were secure enough after surgery, so they put a cast (metal splint and bandages) on his leg as back up. He has to be confined to a kennel for 8 weeks ( an absolute nightmare for both of us, since he is such a high energy dog!) and he is only allowed to walk a few feet for potty breaks. Even using thue elevator to get downstairs to get him out of the building to go potty is too much, so I have him going on paper in our spare bathroom. I cannot tell you how much I enjoy mopping the floor 3-4 times a day....:-(!

    The cast has also caused problems. First he ended up with an infection and now, the metal splint has caused a wound on his paw. The vet hospital is a little more than an hours drive one way. So, along with the time it takes to change his bandages, it takes up four hours of my day every three days.

    The cost is also adding up. We are over 5k at this point. But,
    every time I feel like grumbling about the cost, I remind myself that we are blessed that we can well afford it and that there are many people out there who cannot afford to feed
    their families let alone spend that much money on a dog.

    One thing I will say about my boy, he is the absolute sweetest dog I have ever had. The day he broke his leg, I thought he had sprained it and I moved his leg around to see if it was a sprain or maybe a pulled or torn ligament. He tolerated it without even a whimper, just licked my nose. The next day at the vet he did the same thing. So, the vet also thought he might have pulled a ligament. He took an xray just as a precaution and when we all saw how bad the break was we were horrified. He immediately sent us to the orthopedic surgeon.
    When I take Jack in for his bandage changes everybody just laughs at us  because while all the other dogs are subdued or cowering, my nutcase is so happy to be there I can barely control him. He leaps on the vet and showers him with "kisses" everytime, like he is greeting a long lost friend.


    If he does not 'lift a leg,' (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by the capstan on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 07:25:21 PM EST
    a shower curtain or (even better) a crate pan under the papers will keep the floor dry.  Had an old fellow with rear-end problems who reverted to his paper training--papers on the shower curtain.  My current dog has always had a 'comfort station' (pan, pad, papers) available for use in downpours or when I am unable to get him out.

    Oh wow! (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by nycstray on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 02:01:45 AM EST
    That's a lot of hardware! Sorry it's been such a trial/headache. On the good? side, I will be getting Roxy! pet insurance! Like Ms Dot, she's a serious accident waiting to happen when it comes to legs. What you're going through, just reminds me it's a must have.

    It's nice that he's such a lovely boy though!  I'm kinda dreading taking Rox in for her spay as I fear the same over-joyish reaction at the vets, lol!~ Must be scary with a leg in his condition. I only have to worry about everybody just thinking we are crazy, lol!~

    Sounds like he's healing though, so the crazy lady and I will keep you both in our thoughts and for Jack to be running free as soon as it's safe. Are you going to be going through PT and perhaps some hydro therapy with him?

    Oh, and have you tried potty pads and/or those ones they make for humans to go on beds for his bathroom spot?  They seem to hold up pretty well as far as the floor not getting wet. May save a couple floor washings a day :)


    Pet Insurance is a great idea. (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by vml68 on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:00:41 PM EST
    Never needed it with any of my other dogs but I will be getting it for both Jack and Oliver now.
    Anne mentioned her daughter's dog needing an ACL repair and as active as Jack is, I am afraid that may be in his future. Having pet insurance will give me some peace of mind.
    I do plan to do some rehab and hydrotherapy for him. I already spoke to a lady who has a rehab facility and am just waiting till all the bandages are finally off before I take him in.

    Everytime, I see well mannered/behaved pets, I am so impressed. Yet, I always gravitate towards the crazy ones. They have a special place in my heart. Over-joyous is a good choice of words. I have never had a dog be happy to go to the vet, so to have one be so over the top happy, he is literally jumping up and down on his broken leg, is a new
    experience for me. It is beyond ridiculous. I take comfort in
    the fact that even though I am embarassed, he provides everyone else with a few minutes of laughter.


    Re: pet insurance (none / 0) (#126)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:22:03 PM EST
    I looked into this a bit and discovered that with an ACL repair, getting the insurance after the initial diagnosis would not help with the affected leg - it would be a pre-existing condition, which I get - BUT - because so often the other leg also eventually requires repair, the costs of that later surgery would also not be covered as a pre-existing condition.

    Apparently, ACL's are a package deal in the pet insurance world.

    As for "pets who are happy to go to the vet," one of our dogs loves to go - and she happily greets anyone and their pet who walk through the door while we're waiting to be seen.  She could get a job as a Wal-Mart greeter...

    The other dog doesn't like to go, and will even out the brakes on when we get to the front door, but once inside, she's fine - and also goes into happy mode for any and all she sees.  The one thing she absolutely resists doing, though, is rolling over and exposing her belly - unless she is dead asleep.  When I took her back to the vet to have her spay staples removed, it took two of us to hold her down and even then it was a struggle!  She's a Lab, not a dominant personality in any way, shape or form, so we have no idea why she won't roll over for a belly scratch.

    Be careful with the pet insurance, espcially because of Jack's current situation with his leg - the company I looked at was Healthy Paws, here.  They seem good, and might be worth checking out more thoroughly.


    Maybe it hurts her back... (none / 0) (#154)
    by unitron on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 04:01:14 PM EST
    ...to put all her weight on it.

    Nah - she sleeps on her back! (none / 0) (#159)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 05:28:42 PM EST
    And I do mean, full-on, belly facing the ceiling.

    May I just say... (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by sj on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:19:20 PM EST
    ... that seeing you're doing well is also a wondrous thing!  How did your dog hold up?  Were you able to vote?

    Tell us all, LOL!


    Thanks, Sj... :-) (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by vml68 on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 08:38:18 PM EST
    I did not vote as I am not a citizen. Though if I could vote, my vote would have gone to Jill Stein.

    So nice to see you back, vml - (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by Anne on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 07:36:21 PM EST
    glad you and Jack made it through!

    I don't know how people are still coping with no power, though...we were without it for two days, and by the end of Day Two, it was really cold in the house.  We had the fire going in the fireplace, and that helped, but a fireplace, while projecting heat out into a room, is also pulling heat out of the second floor.  

    The third day, I really couldn't wait to get back to work - to civilization, heat, light, internet access - the office had been closed for those two days, so I really didn't have any choice but to be home (our office in Newark is still out of commission - maybe getting back to full operation by Friday).

    And that was just a power outage - we had no other damage, no flooding, no downed trees on our property.  We were so lucky that it felt wrong to even think about complaining about the power.

    We missed you, but are really glad you are okay.  Jack sounds like a real trouper - imagine, after all he's been through, to be happy to see the vet!

    Our daughter's dog - the other Roxy - is having an ACL repair next week; she's a high energy dog, as well, and they're kind of dreading having to keep her confined.  But so much of who she is is being able to run and play, so it's just something they have to do.

    Again - welcome back.  You have a lot to catch up on!


    Thanks, Anne. We were also lucky that we did (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by vml68 on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 10:01:35 PM EST
    not suffer any property damage. Some of the other buildings in our condo complex did have some damage and most of  the boat docks were damaged. Our waterfront walkway was also seriously damaged. The underground garages in some of the condos were flooded and I am sure those who did not move their cars were not happy.  Of course all of this is nothing compared to what people in other parts of NJ and NYC have experienced.

    I too feel bad complaining about losing power for a few days when some people have lost their homes. I cannot imagine how devastated they must feel.

    I hope your daughter's dog has a speedy recovery. Will they be doing a TPLO or another kind of ACL repair? Before we took the xray, we thought Jack had torn his ACL.


    After discussing all the options, they (none / 0) (#113)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 08:29:59 AM EST
    decided to to the TPLO - more expensive, but generally more durable and faster/easier to rehab from; their dog is only three years old, so they want her to have as durable a repair as possible.

    The bad news is that she will probably need the other leg repaired at some point - that seems to be the pattern with these things.

    Even though it's expensive, my daughter and her fiance are just glad they have the option to do the surgery - I don't know what people do who can't afford it.  Well, I guess I do, and the kids are happy they don't have to make that decision.

    Hope yesterday's storm didn't affect you - I sure hope we aren't going to get into this pattern of nor'easters cycling up the coast on a regular basis.  Fingers crossed!


    TPLO, is usually the best option for most dogs. (none / 0) (#131)
    by vml68 on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:37:18 PM EST
    And you are right, if one leg needs to be done, it is usually not long before the other one also has to be done.

    When we were in the waiting room to pick up Jack after his surgery, I sat next to an elderly woman with a little dog who seemed to have suffered from a stroke. She told me that she had been laid off last year and she would not be able to afford treatment for her dog if it was someting serious. She had already decided that she was going to try to adopt her dog out if she could not afford the treatment. There were four other families crying, two with kids and I wondered if any of them had to make a hard decision due to tight finances. It was incredibly depressing.

    We got a few inches of snow yesterday and most of it has already melted today. We were told to expect a power failure again but luckily that did not happen. I have a feeling that these storms are going to be a regular occurence.
    Global warming? Climate change? Who believes in any of that nonsense?...... ;-)


    FL brother forwarded a "personalized" (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:44:26 PM EST
    e-mail he received from OFA b/4 Obama appeared at McCormick for his speech.  Thanks for your help.  Couldn't have done it w/o you.  Nice touch.  

    digby has been fun today (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by lilburro on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 07:09:32 PM EST
    on why Democratic turnout was better than R's expected:

    Some of this was living in their big bubble of discontent. But I also think they have to look to the last two years of governance and campaigning for the answer to why the Obama turnout would have been so good despite a lackluster economy and a deflation of hope for change. The answer is simple: from 2010 on they acted like a bunch of assholes and the people who were only mildly paying attention or who were feeling disillusioned realized that as bad as things are, these people had to be stopped.

    Gee, for the first time in a long time (none / 0) (#78)
    by Slayersrezo on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 09:25:38 PM EST
    I find myself agreeing with Digby.
    The Republicans DID act like assholes when they won in 2010.

    Remember there originally was a sort of populist (some of the "Occupy" people were former TP) part of the TeaParty movement, but by the election of 2010 it had turned into nothing but a nearly mindless coalition of far right wing Republican party hacks.

    And they were VERY vocal all the way from the 2010 midterms to the nomination process this year. It doesn't help to call Granny a "parasite".


    The Rape Redefiners didn't help... (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 07:20:17 AM EST
    ... MoreDork, et al.

    Interesting notes (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by CoralGables on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 08:30:29 PM EST
    from Janesville, Wisconsin

    Janesville, quite a story during the election as Paul Ryan represents the ares. It is situated in Rock County, WI

    Election results from Rock County
    Obama 60.9%
    Romney 37.8%

    Zerban 51.5%
    Ryan  46.4%

    So, did Ryan get re-elected or not? (none / 0) (#71)
    by caseyOR on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 08:47:41 PM EST
    Is he in or is he out?

    He won (none / 0) (#75)
    by CoralGables on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 09:19:37 PM EST
    Janesville only makes up part of his district

    Ryan 68.2%
    Heckenlively 30.1%

    Ryan 55%
    Zerban 43%

    Towanda would have to weigh in as to whether re-districting led to Ryan's fall off from a +38% win in 2010 to a +12% win in 2012, or if his district is losing that lovin feelin.


    He is still in -- poor, broken Janesville is not (none / 0) (#77)
    by Towanda on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 09:21:57 PM EST
    like a lot of the rural areas of Ryan's district.

    And if GM had not left Janesville -- or if Obama had made reopening the plant (for which we in the state had paid a lot to appease GM, not that long ago) part of the auto bailout -- that lovely, historic, and now-beaten-down town would not have had severe population losses (including Feingold, who got his start there, where his father was a revered local lawyer, but Russ left Janesville and didn't step in to speak for it, either).

    And then, there might have been enough Janesvillians to beat Ryan.  But looking ahead was too much to ask of Democrats, nationally and in Wisconsin, which went entirely red in its state government yesterday.  Entirely.  Republican.  State legislature, where great candidates could not get a cent from the Dems who had to send it all to the Obama campaign.  State Supreme Court, when we couldn't get help to staff the recount.

    And, of course, governor -- when we had to beg and plead to get help too late from national Dems.  Of course, if someone had kept his promises to find his comfy shoes. . . .  But after coming to Wisocnsin three times in six days, the state won't see him again for years.  Now Obama doesn't need Wisconsin anymore.

    Good for Baldwin for getting outahere, joining the population loss -- largely the educated, the better-income Wisconsinites.  Because they can.


    We stayed in Janesville ... (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 09:38:51 PM EST
    ... for a couple of days in July 2010, as we were attending a cousin's wedding up at semi-nearby Lake Koshkonong Country Club -- which looked a lot closer to Janesville on the map than it turned out to be once we were on the road. I love southern Wisconsin and northern Illinois, it's just a beautiful part of the country. It's a real shame what's happened to that city.

    It is. The "unglaciated area" (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by Towanda on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 11:52:44 PM EST
    of the southwestern portion of the state is stunning, and the drive along the border between Wisconsin and Illinois from the Janesville area west to the Mississippi River on old, haunted highway 11 is one of my favorites.  

    Janesville's history also is so significant as an Underground Railroad station on the Rock River, as so many fugitive slaves came up from the Mississippi to Janesville and then were smuggled east to the Great Lakes and on to Canada.  Did you happen to see the historical society building, the beautiful Lincoln-Tallmann house?  The Lincoln name is on it, because Abe did sleep there as a campaign stop, too -- the Tallmanns being closely connected to Owen Lovejoy's UR stop in Illinois to the south.  And Owen Lovejoy was the unheralded hero of the abolitionist movement, the brother of the martyred editor Elijah Lovejoy; Owen continued the newspaper and the work for the caused, founded the Illinois Republican Party, finally persuaded the cautious and come-lately Lincoln to join the party in the later 1850s, and more.  When Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation, he called on Owen Lovejoy to stand by his side, crediting Lovejoy with persuading Lincoln away from his earlier allegiance to colonization -- to the back-to-Africa movement -- and toward ending slavery.  

    The building was the Tallmann home, a clever design with a cupola with stained-glass windows of red and green to signal, with a candle behind one, whether it was safe to come to the house.  And the design of the roofline and other parts were for fugitives to "ladder" down the side to get away -- to the river and to the next stops, such as Milton, where the tunnel for hiding fugitives still can be toured.  It's terrifying and moving.

    The diary of a young Tallmann daughter only recently was read and "translated" to understand the subtext that tells us more about how the Underground Railroad worked.  Many other documents from the URR in that region are incredible reads, too.  It was a brave town.  But it is broken now.


    You make me want to go back for a trip (none / 0) (#145)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 02:30:56 PM EST
    I think I remember going to the Tallman House at one point as a kid. Love the area from Rockford to Dubuque - is is along there? I was a kid and not driving, so I had no idea where I was besides the start and end points.

    I really do miss that area at times - the rolling hills and rivers and trees, and of course the farms.  I don't have family there since my dad passed a couple of years ago - we spread his ashes in the Rock River - so I don't go back as much. It would be nice to just take a tour.


    Especially this time of year! (none / 0) (#148)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 02:36:21 PM EST
    Fascinating. (none / 0) (#166)
    by lilburro on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 10:34:00 AM EST
    I am reading Eric Foner's Fiery Trial right now (which is absolutely fascinating) and Owen Lovejoy is mentioned frequently throughout.  Nice to get some local detail for the story, also.

    Technical error (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by CoralGables on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 09:46:07 PM EST
    Hahahahahahahahaha (none / 0) (#89)
    by Angel on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 11:00:06 PM EST
    Yeah... (none / 0) (#122)
    by easilydistracted on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 11:20:16 AM EST
    technical error alright -- technically incompetent error.

    Fraudster filmmaker Mark B. Youssef (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by Peter G on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:40:52 AM EST
    whose amateurish but deliberately offensive video depiction of Mohammed set off riots around the world in September, was sentenced Wednesday to a year in federal prison after admitting four of eight charges of violation of his supervised release, by using false identities.

    David Letterman just called Karl Rove (5.00 / 6) (#95)
    by caseyOR on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 02:14:55 AM EST
    a "tubby little weasel." He also suggested that someday someone will stick a pin in Rove, and he'll fly away. He's on a roll tonight. I'm guessing David voted for Obama, and he's had it up to here with the GOP and its shenanigans.

    His guest is Brian Williams who, in typical media form, is insisting that "both sides do it," meaning both Dems and Reps ran ugly campaigns full of lies about the other side. Dave's not buying it.

    In all the years I've been watching Letterman I have never seen him so worked up about politics. And I've never heard him speak with such disdain for one particular party, in this case the Republicans.

    And boy howdy does David hate Citizens United.

    i had to watch (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 02:37:18 AM EST
    the election returns all by my lonesome last night because nobody was willing to watch them with me on Fox

    all i was looking for was some 'splodin' heads, but i got the incredible bonus of witnessing the Karl Rove meltdown in real time while everybody else i know only heard about it on Twitter

    it was rich!

    i remember how deflated we all felt at the end of Election Night 2004 - i think the tubby little weasel's fit of apoplexy has finally been enough to almost make up for that - all the more delicious in that the occasion of the meltdown was the returns coming in from Ohio




    I was only catching some of this (none / 0) (#97)
    by nycstray on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 02:25:50 AM EST
     through the walls here. Trying to convince Roxy! to go to bed . . .

    Post election report from Winona (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by DFLer on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 07:26:55 AM EST
    1. Proud to say we had a 90.6 % voter turnout in Winona County.

    2. Happy to report that the DFL re-captured both houses of the state legislature lost in the mid-terms two years ago.

    3. That previously Republican legislature insisted on putting two constitutional amendments on the ballot, one defining marriage as between one man and one woman, the other calling for voter ID...both of which galvanized the base, the youths, and increased their turnout.

    4. Best moment of election day for me, as election judge working the voter registration desk: registering a young man I used to live next to, and watched grow up, to cast his first vote in an election.

    Awesome! (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by Angel on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 08:57:25 AM EST
    Jacksonville Beach (none / 0) (#14)
    by Amiss on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 04:24:17 PM EST
    Still has 10,000 votes to count so local news just reported.

    Excerpt from today's George Will (none / 0) (#18)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 04:51:33 PM EST

    Self-identified conservatives outnumber self-identified liberals 2-1 in a nation that has re-elected the most liberal president since Lyndon Johnson and his mentor Franklin Roosevelt.

    George Will is relevant exactly how? (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by Angel on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 04:55:08 PM EST
    I really despise that twit, but the one who really, really gets on my nerves is Charles Krauthammer.    They just can't understand that old white guys like them no longer have any relevance.  

    Angel, there is one group less relevant (none / 0) (#20)
    by mogal on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:04:42 PM EST
    than old white guys - old white women.

    Ha! Be careful who you insult here. :) (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by Angel on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:15:20 PM EST
    Good for you! (none / 0) (#39)
    by mogal on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:50:27 PM EST
    Should have added GO HILLARY! (none / 0) (#22)
    by mogal on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:11:09 PM EST
    Will is the pundit who judged Romney (none / 0) (#21)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:05:20 PM EST
    the winner of the foreign policy debate.  I like to get his reaction to issues which seem so obvious to me but not to him.  

    I understand what you are saying (none / 0) (#107)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 07:39:11 AM EST
    But honestly, if he has a column he is relevant still.  Until he is replaced by someone he still has a larger voice and is relevant whether I like it or not.

    Nah, he's relevant to only the non-relevant. . (none / 0) (#156)
    by Angel on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 04:23:26 PM EST
    I associate him with that staticy and anniying background noise.  

    I wish (5.00 / 4) (#38)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:47:59 PM EST
    he was the most liberal president since Johnson.

    Me too. Pretty funny. (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:50:33 PM EST
    Me three. (none / 0) (#44)
    by Angel on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 06:08:14 PM EST
    Me four. Damned if I know why they insist (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 07:23:57 AM EST
    on calling him a liberal.  Labeling, I guess.

    I think it's because (none / 0) (#119)
    by sj on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 09:02:53 AM EST
    if they look at the left/right spectrum and see where he really lies, then look at themselves and see where they are, even they'll have to admit they hit bat$hit crazy long ago.

    Can't have reality intruding, doncha know.


    Plus, he's an educated black (none / 0) (#155)
    by jondee on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 04:13:55 PM EST
    Democrat, which means he MUST have secret radical-socialist tendencies..

    Or so the Wills and Krauthammers of the world imagine..

    Ivy League veneer or no, these guys still have an id of seething fifties Bircher paranoia. It never went away completely.



    Nixon will remain (none / 0) (#70)
    by Rojas on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 08:46:33 PM EST
    the most liberal president since Johnson.

    Although the demographics of baseball (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by CoralGables on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 08:07:47 PM EST
    have changed over the years, baseball over the years doesn't really change. As the demographics of politics change, politics makes drastic changes.

    George Will is a very good baseball writer. He didn't translate it to politics very well. Nate Silver was a very good baseball statistical analyst. He did translate it to politics very well.

    As an old white guy I can say that if we don't keep up with change, old white guys like George Will will be relegated to the dustbin of intelligence.


    Here's Glenn Greenwald to throw a little water (none / 0) (#26)
    by Slayersrezo on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:33:52 PM EST
    on this party:


    Will the Progressives avoid steps 1 through 6 or will they continue kissing up to power as they've done pretty much the entire past 4 years?

    My projection: No, you won't avoid it. Too many Democratic partisians and self-described Progressives are too psychologically invested in party politics and hatred of Republicans to ever follow through on any of the things that will be needed if Obama's worst instincts are to be reigned in. Your only real hope is that Obama is secretly a Marxist (like some on the right believe) who will suddenly stop playing the "bipartisan" game because he will feel he has no need to.

    Gibberish. (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Angel on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:37:23 PM EST
    Here's Juan Cole's wish list, with which (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:39:00 PM EST
    Nice wish list - like the Maltese Falcon... (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 07:40:41 AM EST
    ... the stuff that dreams are made of.

    Very good (none / 0) (#109)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 07:42:31 AM EST
    Well stated

    More than gibberish (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by shoephone on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:43:38 PM EST

    Hey, Zero! Remember this? (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 07:27:55 PM EST
    Slayerzero: "This all depends on turnout. And I simply don't see Obama getting the turnout. Prepare for President Romney." (Sat Nov 3, 2012 at 5:34:41 PM EST)

    In the immortal words of Gov. Rick Perry, "Oops."

    The election's over. Your guy lost. Deal with it. I know we are ...


    Nevertheless, (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by dk on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 07:56:52 PM EST
    Glenn's article still has merit.  It's worth reading.

    Nevertheless, ... (none / 0) (#80)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 09:28:57 PM EST
    ... I still want to dance in the end zone for a little while longer. Greenwald can wait.

    "My" guy? (none / 0) (#76)
    by Slayersrezo on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 09:20:05 PM EST
    I didn't vote for either of them.

    Donald, haven't I said on here more than once that I wish they both could lose?

    All I did was link to Greenwald to try and keep the actual conscientious Dems like Anne on her toes about Obama. He's already making "bipartisan" noises and its only the first day after the election!


    A Marxist? Personally, I'm hoping he turns (none / 0) (#110)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 07:43:29 AM EST
    Leninist, debuts a few Gulags, and tosses all the right wing talk show hosts and megachurch preachermen in, wholesale.

    Sorry, I'd make a bad president.


    Wow. Just read on TPM article about .... (none / 0) (#29)
    by magster on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:40:42 PM EST
    ... latino vote that Colorado latinos favored Obama 87-10.

    Obama needs to make immigration reform one of the first legislative initiatives of his term.

    Great article (none / 0) (#52)
    by lilburro on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 07:00:09 PM EST
    here's the link.  The split is insane.  

    The reason that didn't work, according to the study, is that Latino citizens are too personally connected to undocumented residents to separate the issue. Some 60 percent of high propensity Latino voters say they know someone who is living in the country illegally.

    "You're not talking about an abstract immigrant, you're talking about someone the respondent knows and cares for and may in fact be related to," Segura said.

    For the GOP, his conclusion was simple: "The Republicans need to make this go away."

    The GOP created quite an empathetic electorate this cycle.  All their bashing of gays and illegal immigrants has pissed off quite a crowd of people who don't identify as such.


    Yup. In addition to the effects of the (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 08:32:54 PM EST
    "Rape is No Big Thang" Crowd...

    They really know how to alienate and anger people.


    Saw an interesting line today (5.00 / 4) (#67)
    by CoralGables on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 08:37:51 PM EST
    How to know when your political party has a problem.

    Two Republicans overheard at the water cooler this morning:

    Republican #1: Our rape guy lost last night.
    Republican #2: Which one?


    laugh or cry - not sure! (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 08:38:37 PM EST
    Just insane. (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by lilburro on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 09:44:27 PM EST
    I think in my ways I like this election more than 08 because it reaffirms our values.  The gender gap increased 6 points over 2008.  That's shocking, unless you lived in the US the past 2 years.  And the gay marriage victories are incredible.  

    Still, second best to Obama's reelection, is the person I see right now when I switch tabs to TPM...Elizabeth Warren!!  I cannot get over the fact that she won and as my excitement about Obama winning subsides into deep relief my excitement to see what she will do is only increasing.  I am hopeful, if likely deluded, that these fresh Dem faces in the Senate will help change the dynamic there.  I mean, we won't have to listen to Kent Conrad and all his friggin blather ever again.  Now that is refreshing.


    ... and Sherrod freakin' Brown... (none / 0) (#87)
    by magster on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 10:08:47 PM EST
    I thought there was no way my favorite US Senator would get re-elected in Ohio. He and Warren will be a nice progressive duo.

    Elizabeth Warren & Sherrod Brown (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Politalkix on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 10:12:31 PM EST
    are my favorite choices for VP candidates in 2016.

    how about (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 11:16:18 PM EST
    Warren for president and Brown for vice president?

    Don't forget Tammy Baldwin. She's (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by caseyOR on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 11:18:26 PM EST
    no slouch.

    The newly  and re-elected Dem senators will raise the liberal quotient in the senate by a fair margin. Still not enough of them for me, but we gained ground, we didn't lose this time.


    Have to love this by Sherrod (5.00 / 2) (#136)
    by MO Blue on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 01:40:59 PM EST
    WASHINGTON -- Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio), the unassuming, unabashed progressive who was a top target for Republicans this cycle, faced down $40 million in conservative attack ads -- and won.

    "Karl Rove had a bad night," said Brown at a press conference on Wednesday morning, fresh off his victory over State Treasurer Josh Mandel (R).
    WASHINGTON -- Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio), the unassuming, unabashed progressive who was a top target for Republicans this cycle, faced down $40 million in conservative attack ads -- and won. link

    Actually (1.00 / 5) (#96)
    by Slayersrezo on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 02:23:43 AM EST
    Exit polls and the stats of who voted would seem to show that the "War on Women" meme, the "rape is no big thing" stuff, and the normal "Roe V Wade will be repealed OOOGA BOOGA" claims gave the Democrats marginal gains among the single women demographic at best.

    One thing about this election I'm really happy about is that it showed the limits of "peak feminism".


    whatever (5.00 / 5) (#99)
    by Dr Molly on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 06:07:53 AM EST
    please provide a link to actual data showing what you claim.

    it wasn't a meme. the level of outrageous anti-women language and threats this year was over the top. and the gender gap was significantly increased over the last election.


    6 percent (1.00 / 4) (#129)
    by Slayersrezo on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:25:51 PM EST
    That's all I need to know.
    Despite the hysteria and lies and quotes sometimes (not always but sometimes) taken out of context on rape and etc, you only got 6 more percent of the single women's vote.

    "...taken out of context on rape..." (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 01:38:13 PM EST

    18 point gender gap, up from 12 points in 2008 (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Dr Molly on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 02:43:49 PM EST
    There's a reason for that.

    Part of is the rape apologia commentary that you are trying (unsuccessfully) to trivialize.


    "[T]aken out of context on rape"? (none / 0) (#139)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 02:08:14 PM EST
    Give it up, already. Obama won. Deal with it.

    *pats Donald on the head* (1.00 / 2) (#146)
    by Slayersrezo on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 02:32:13 PM EST
    You seem to think I care that Obama won.
    I don't as I've said on here for months before the election. I thought Romney would win because I underestimated Democratic turnout, but other than that I've never expressed any kind of desire or hope for this election, and have repeatedly insulted Romney and both parties. Why don't you go over to the Conservative Treehouse and try to rub salt into their wounds, since that seems to be the kind of petty person you are?

    My real point was that the "war on women" and other ridiculous memes have very limited currency anymore.
    And that's a good thing.


    Now you need help with your math, too? (none / 0) (#160)
    by Towanda on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 05:30:47 PM EST
    As if trying to eddicate on the difference between "peak" and "pique" was not enough work?  Sigh.

    An increase of 6 percent, when it is growth from 12 percent of a group to 18 percent of a group, is not well stated as an increase of 6 percent.

    It is, actually, an increase of 50 percent.  

    Do you see why?  If not, and you really do not understand the math, then you are not graded down for deliberately minimizing what is a remarkable growth rate in one group of the electorate.

    Let's try it this way:  Show me any group in the electorate that showed an increase of 50 percent for Republicans from 2008 to 2012.  


    Towanda (none / 0) (#164)
    by Slayersrezo on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 09:14:24 PM EST
    Just like your ridiculous "pique" versus "peak" post above, this one is not worth replying to.

    When you go back to being serious I might reply to you again.


    Despite your androsia....... (none / 0) (#165)
    by DFLer on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 09:20:32 PM EST
    you remain full of it.

    I hear (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 06:21:40 AM EST
    this "war on women" crap from conservatives all the time. So i say back to them well, what do you want to call all the noxious legislation that the GOP has passed in states all over the country? Crickets is what i then hear from conservatives.

    Okay, I can't not say it anymore (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Towanda on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:50:46 AM EST
    about this spelling seen often at TL.

    Do you actually mean "pique feminism"?

    If you were arguing the opposite, your spelling might make sense.  But based on your argument, despite it being a far remove from reality, i.e., the data . . .  I think that you mean "pique."

    If you do, that is not only a far remove from reality but also a jerk thing to say, of course.  But that, if not the spelling, you knew.


    What would you expect? (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 11:10:10 AM EST
    Slayer went through a bad divorce and decided all women are the enemy.

    Wrong (1.00 / 1) (#127)
    by Slayersrezo on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:22:52 PM EST
    No divorce here.
    Not that the fact that I haven't been divorced excuses the the screwing over of fathers and of children in some divorces.
    Cue the screaming about how I want to ban all divorce.

    I googled "peak feminism" (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:09:32 PM EST
    and it returned some websites; I didn't take the time to peruse any of them other than one by an Irishman, who had broken down what he saw  as a coming Peak Decade (I think he wrote this is 2010)into component parts - one of which was Peak Feminism.

    When I saw him describing the wave of feminism that acted to the detriment of men and created a glass basement for men, I decided that Slayer's use of the term was wholly in line with many of his other opinions that have to do with women.

    Not sure you really want to explore the concept too much, but Google has it if you're feeling so inclined.


    You did that (1.00 / 2) (#128)
    by Slayersrezo on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:24:12 PM EST
    Because you are pretty much the only halfway intelligent one here on the subject.

    Yes, people have been analyzing these demographics for a good 15 years now.


    So All Mentioned... (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 11:47:45 AM EST
    ...in your mind can only be measure by one demographic, single women ?

    No fathers, boyfriends, sons, married women, grandmothers, mothers, and friends who are not in your demographic could have decided enough with the right wing BS ?

    You can call it marginal, but millions and millions of folks the right has spent years marginalizing, along with their friends and families, just elected a President.


    ScottW (1.25 / 4) (#130)
    by Slayersrezo on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:35:31 PM EST
    I'm just happy for peak feminism, which is why I highlighted the relatively small gains in its most  prominent demographic- single women.
    Married women don't play that way.

    Next campaign the Democrats can call all Republicans not only "rape supporters" but actual rapists and perhaps they'll get another one percent gain.


    You're really on a roll today (5.00 / 4) (#134)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 01:35:13 PM EST
    Isn't there some creepy, misogynist website where you can go ply your wares?

    That's two for two! (none / 0) (#144)
    by Slayersrezo on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 02:25:20 PM EST
    Tea Partier Matt Kibbe on NPR (none / 0) (#30)
    by shoephone on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:41:37 PM EST
    just said that Republicans should still try to dismantle ObamaCare.

    Forget tea leaves. These people can't see the writing on the wall right in front of their faces.

    This (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:51:13 PM EST
    just shows how completely stupid they are. Obamacare is designed to fail so all they really have to do is just sit back and wait.

    I'm telling you (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by shoephone on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:57:38 PM EST
    they have learned nothing. Between this Kibbe guy and Limbaugh's meltdown this morning, it's clear that conservatives are in total denial. They're like the confederates -- no matter how much time passes, and how much the nation moves towards more civil rights for more citizens, they will still think those dirty colored people should be considered 3/5 of a person. Rebel yell!

    as a matter of historical accuracy (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 09:18:10 PM EST
    it was the southerners who wanted each slave to be counted as 5/5 of a person, to bolster the southern states' numbers in congress - it was the damn yankees who diluted the southerners' numbers by counting each slave as 3/5 of a person

    What (none / 0) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 06:31:27 PM EST
    exactly did the radio nitwits say today? Taylor Marsh has been on a roll and she was talking about this today too.

    Well, for one thing, (none / 0) (#59)
    by shoephone on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 07:51:39 PM EST
    Rushbo was whining about how the people who voted for Obama are so stupid "they don't even know what the national debt being higher than the GDP means! In, fact if you asked them what's GDP they would just give you a blank stare, and say 'it's all good, Obama got reelected.' Can you imagine even one of them knowing what GDP is? And the women who voted for Obama! All they care about is being able to have taxpayer funded abortions, and going into the grocery store and finding free contraception -- paid for by the government! They don't care about economic issues as much as they care about getting their abortions and free contraception! That's all!"

    It was pretty much a replay of "Sandra Fluke is a slut!" all over again.

    I'll look around the web to see if I can find a video of it somewhere.


    Not sure about the fail part (none / 0) (#43)
    by shoephone on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 06:00:58 PM EST
    The insurance industry power is the main problem, but newly elected liberal Dems in the Senate may force the discussion of a public option. No one knows yet.

    Well (none / 0) (#48)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 06:30:43 PM EST
    I'm just going on how it is done right now. There are some things that can be done but I'm not sure they will be.

    I don't pretend to understand all (none / 0) (#61)
    by shoephone on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 07:53:34 PM EST
    the complexities of the law, and I know you and your husband have really suffered recently because of it. I'm just in wait and see mode.

    Drunk tweeting (none / 0) (#47)
    by shoephone on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 06:27:39 PM EST
    I Just Don't Get Florida (none / 0) (#60)
    by RickyJim on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 07:52:33 PM EST
    As of this moment, Florida still hasn't finished counting its ballots.  Is there something that Florida does that is unique or is the presidential race there closer than in any of the other states so they have to count every last ballot to see who won the state?  

    There are probably (none / 0) (#81)
    by CoralGables on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 09:38:22 PM EST
    100,000 absentee ballots still to count. Almost 20,000 in Miami alone. All states have the same issue. You just don't notice it unless the vote totals are very tight.

    For example: Florida has counted 97% this far, Pennsylvania 98%, New York 86%, Colorado 90%,Oregon 75% Ohio 90%. You only notice when the margin is razor thin.


    By the way (none / 0) (#83)
    by CoralGables on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 09:41:14 PM EST
    I just looked at them all. Not one state (nor the District of Columbia) has finished counting yet.

    Off topic.. (none / 0) (#149)
    by lentinel on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 02:37:06 PM EST
    Is your pen-name taken from the film "Glengarry Glen Ross"?

    I remember Al Pacino saying, "This is Ricky, Jim."


    Didn't Know That (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by RickyJim on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 06:07:27 PM EST
    Thanks.  I will be sure to rent the movie.  The Jim is the first syllable of my last name.