Monday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:37:00 AM EST
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It's back to work for me, and I think BTD may be busy with election stuff. Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

BTD - I'll be sitting in for David Waldman, Kagro in the Morning. today at 9. I hear there is an election soon. We'll talk about it and Daily Kos Radio's planned Election Night coverage. Tune in.

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Monday Open Thread | 78 comments (78 topical)

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I made the mistake of watching (5.00 / 3) (#1)
by mogal on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 06:37:49 AM EST

Morning Joe this AM and was appalled when Joe joked and laughed about the voting lines in Florida. He kept repeating Benghazi-Benghzi as the story was reported. I would expect this from Rush but not MSNBC.

John McCain finished himself off in this (5.00 / 3) (#3)
by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 07:52:21 AM EST

house over Benghazi on morning Joe. I figured getting McCain on fired them up. My husband is an Independent, he would have voted for McCain over Obama if he had been the better candidate but he wasn't. McCain did steal my husband's heart when during the Bush administration he originally came out on fire over the violation of Geneva Conventions. Later he cooled and that really broke my husbands heart, but during the Presidential race my husband still gave him a shot at earning his vote and that didn't happen.

Today McCain is yammering about active duty military up in arms over his Benghazi thing, and my husband said not him or anyone he works with. McCain said the same about veterans too but we can't find any of them. During the Bush Presidency a total of 38 people were killed in attacks upon U.S. embassies and consulates. Embassy work is dangerous work, and I guess everyone who died during the Bush administration....their families did not deserve the investigation that the Benghazi families do according to McCain.

He was also saying something trying to suggest infighting between agencies. I have never known the various agencies involved to work together so seamlessly. Some things have become so seamless it is disturbing. Take the War on Drugs joining the War on Terror, and that investigation teams in the war zone contain three military personnel along with a member of the FBI and the CIA and I don't see this hint around at infighting all that credible. Our most important General in recent times heads the CIA and the guy who was the head of the CIA runs the Defense Department, it's pretty incestuous but also enables the various agencies to work together more easily and competently, and John McCain wants to sell Bush admnistration style incompetence that there is a bunch of infighting and the branches couldn't work the Benghazi situation on the ground together? I call bull


McCain is shameless, but he's (5.00 / 1) (#5)
by observed on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:13:44 AM EST

canny. For instance, there was the Senate candidate he un-endorsed, claiming he was waiting for an apology. Later, McCain claimed the guy had made an acceptable apology. The point is, it didn't matter what the guy said. McCain used the off again on again endorsement to legitimatize the guy.
(not that it worked).
The fact McCain is going ape over something which is obviously a manufactured crisis just shows the desperation of the republicans, in general.


I had lost (5.00 / 1) (#27)
by indy in sc on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 11:42:23 AM EST

most respect for John McCain with the last election cycle given his abandonment of most of his former positions in that election and his selection of Palin as VP, but this morning probably swept away what was left.

I can't believe (or sadly I can believe) that no one on the set of Morning Joe called McCain on his brazenness this morning. He actually said that he had no information other than what has been made public about the whole matter and yet he called for hearings similar to "watergate" and "iran-contra" knowing full well that putting this in the same context as those shameful periods in our history would give the appearance of criminal activity on the part of the administration--all this on the basis of NO FACTS. He knows those words illicit visceral reactions. How do you throw out such casual accusations with nothing to back you up? You are alleging treasonous action by several different departments and you don't even get any push back about it?


Nothing Like a Shameless Republican... (none / 0) (#32)
by ScottW714 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 12:02:32 PM EST

...using Watergate and Iran-Contra to try and help manufacture a non-existent scandal against democrats.

McCain is a pathetic idiot who is followed by this rumor I keep hearing that he once had principles. Like Sasquatch the only people who seem to believe that are nutz and their proof is always very blurry or just made-up.

He folded like a cheap suit on torture, and what is worse, I remember his own party saying his opinion was effected because he was tortured. Anyone who sides with people who continually throw them under the bus isn't a man of any character IMO.


John McCain's principles, (none / 0) (#38)
by KeysDan on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 12:33:46 PM EST

according to Jon Stewart: "McCain trounced Hayworth by standing strong on principle. Mainly the principle that he would like to die in his senate seat." In the Republican primary of 2010, McCain refused to be out-right winged by his opponent, former Congressman, a tea party guy, J. D. Hayworth.

Of course, there was also McCain's last stand against DADT when after the vote he continued his ugly rant on the senate floor. But, perhaps McCain will come to regret that vote as he says he now regrets his 1983 vote against a federal holiday honoring Dr. Martin Luther King. Such revelations, apparently, are to be admired for being maverkicy.


: No wonder McCain and Lieberman (5.00 / 2) (#41)
by Anne on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 01:05:11 PM EST

have such an affinity for each other...
What stands out for me is the overbearing sense of entitlement these long-timers have and how it isn't about serving their citizen constituents, but about serving - first and foremost - themselves.
Romney fits right in, but in an exponentially worse way - at least in my opinion; he doesn't even really disguise his grasping need to be installed in the highest office in the land, and the ease with which he changes his positions makes me think he truly believes the electorate is too stupid to notice - or won't care.
I can't wait for this to be over, but what worries me is that it's going to be some time for all the votes to be counted and election certified. And that's going to allow for plenty of opportunities to mess with the vote.
I hope it's not close enough for the problem states/precincts to be a factor.
Which kind of circles back to it being time for the National Popular Vote. It's really time to make every vote count, with every vote being equally important; I'm tired of every presidential election being reduced to how people vote in Ohio or Nevada or any of the other so-called "toss-up" states.
If every vote counted, imagine what that would do to voter participation rates, eh?

It was refreshing to see Repub (5.00 / 2) (#13)
by magster on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:42:45 AM EST

former Governor Todd-Whitman say that Florida had voting conditions similar to 3rd world elections that she monitored and that it was shameful (although she denied some grand GOP plot to disenfranchise). Still, she struck the right note about what happened.


Fist fights broke (none / 0) (#33)
by Amiss on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 12:09:24 PM EST

out here in Jacksonville where we had early voting at the libraries because they were not letting some folks vote.
Rick Scott is doing everything he can, but the DNC already had lawyers in place and are doing a good job.


On the cr*p happening today in Florida (5.00 / 1) (#34)
by Towanda on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 12:17:11 PM EST

aka "our national embarrassment," see the Election Law Blog report just posted.

It's a site worth bookmarking. I did so weeks ago, and it has been busy ever since -- but especially yesterday, with posts every couple of minutes on voter suppression, intimidation, etc., in Florida, Ohio, and elsewhere.

My election prediction, from Wisconsin with all of the above and dirty tricks happening here as well to subvert the democratic process, is that the Election Law Blog will be even busier in weeks ahead. Many weeks ahead.


I just bookmarked it (5.00 / 1) (#39)
by shoephone on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 12:54:39 PM EST

Thanks, it really is a great site.

But we need photos of the intimidating instigators.


: thanks (5.00 / 2) (#72)
by Amiss on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 06:44:01 PM EST

and bookmarked as well. We had voters protesting in some precincts today about the refusals and folks were still voting until 1am this morning. I have never seen crap like this in my life and I was born and raised in Florida.
I thought the Bushes/Cheney/Rove were bad but they cant hold a candle to the Romney/Rick Scott combination.

Every Legal vote should be counted.. (5.00 / 1) (#43)
by Jim in St Louis on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 01:06:19 PM EST

...no question about that. Nice to see people actually fight for that.


: Oy (5.00 / 1) (#44)
by sj on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 01:13:52 PM EST

: AND every person who is capable of casting (5.00 / 5) (#45)
by magster on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 01:15:49 PM EST

a legal vote should not be discouraged from voting by restricting access or hours to casting a ballot.

Scott is shameless and a sorry excuse for a (5.00 / 1) (#35)
by Angel on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 12:21:20 PM EST

human being.


Rick Scott defeated an excellent (5.00 / 1) (#40)
by KeysDan on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 12:56:15 PM EST

candidate, Alex Sink, in a close, tea party-flavored election. Scott, like Romney, touted his business experience to the electorate (this was all he had to offer, not having ever held any public office).

That business experience was anchored as chief executive of Columbia/HCA hospitals. However, overlooked was his forced resignation in 1997 after FBI raids of headquarters in El Paso and dozens of doctors' offices. Columbia/HCA subsequently admitted to 14 felonies and agreed to pay the federal government $600 million. In all, counting civil suits and fines, Columbia/HCA spent more than $2 billion, a record that has not yet been broken.

The felonies included such things as over-charging on Medicare and Medicaid, fraudulent Medicare billings, kick-backs, illegal deals with home care agencies, and filing false reports. All great credentials for a Florida governor, with so many of senior citizens. But, then, Rick Scott should know fraud when he sees it--even if voter fraud is more difficult to see, since it happens rarely, if ever.


: Voter fraud may be rare... (none / 0) (#69)
by unitron on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 06:31:43 PM EST

...but shenanigans by the people running the elections probably aren't.
Google "ray lemme clint curtis yang enterprises"

: I dont see how (none / 0) (#73)
by Amiss on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 06:59:27 PM EST

he won or how anyone could vote for him with a straight face. Good news DNCs says approx. 4.5 million have cast early ballots as of noon today and that most early voters are Democrats because they actually have to work and have less time to stand in line. Makes sense hope they are right.

Chrysler-Fiat CEO's message to team Mitt (5.00 / 3) (#2)
by Menanna on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 07:07:32 AM EST

"Jeep assembly lines will remain in operation in the United States and will constitute the backbone of the brand.
It is inaccurate to suggest anything different.
Sergio Marchionne"

Full message here: http://goo.gl/wmgwP

Good for you Sergio!

: Refreshing when somone in his capacity stands (none / 0) (#4)
by Angel on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:12:34 AM EST

up and tells the truth to the political lies.

Check out copy and paste from PPP tweet (5.00 / 1) (#15)
by magster on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 10:07:29 AM EST

PublicPolicyPolling ‏@ppppolls

Our final Colorado poll finds Barack Obama leading Mitt Romney 52/46.

That's what I'm talking about....

Stunning (none / 0) (#17)
by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 10:31:59 AM EST

I just changed my prediction to (none / 0) (#23)
by Angel on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 11:14:25 AM EST

Obama - 303
Romney - 235

based on the latest polling on CO from PPP. Yeah!


Rolling a certain # on a dice... (none / 0) (#28)
by magster on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 11:46:57 AM EST

... is a 1 in 6 proposition. As Romney's chances of winning each of the 5 swing states he needs to win (CO, IA, WI, VA, OH) are, according to Nate, about those odds, making a clean sweep of these 5 states will be like Romney rolling a yahtzee on his first roll.


: I'm a Nate devotee. The trolls on his site have (none / 0) (#30)
by Angel on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 12:00:15 PM EST

really slackened off the past day or so. I think they're 'speechless' right now. I'm just hoping the probability gods are on our side tomorrow and the next few days as this gets fought out. Because a fight is what we'll have if it's close.

Weren't you at 272-268 just yesterday? (none / 0) (#48)
by CoralGables on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 01:27:15 PM EST

By tonight you may be at 332 :)


Ha! Actually I was at 274/264 after I changed (none / 0) (#49)
by Angel on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 01:35:44 PM EST

NH later last night. Then I asked MileHi about CO, wasn't convinced O was going to take it, slept overnight on it, then after Magster gave the PPP update this morning I added CO to my Obama column.

That is absolutely my last prediction. I'll be on a plane and traveling tomorrow so I won't be online until late.


Lucky you! (none / 0) (#53)
by nycstray on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 02:06:19 PM EST

I'll be on a plane and traveling tomorrow so I won't be online until late

That might be the nicest place to be tomorrow! :D


: It will probably save my sanity! (none / 0) (#57)
by Angel on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 02:30:24 PM EST

OMG. SE Cupp just asked Brokaw... (5.00 / 2) (#54)
by magster on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 02:12:03 PM EST

... "are things going to be so difficult for Obama because of people's impatience with him not getting things done in his first term, that there's a part of him that would be glad if he lost??"

In all the dumb questions I've heard asked on cable TV, this is definitely in the running for the stupidest?

The Permanent Militarization of America (5.00 / 1) (#62)
by Mr Natural on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 03:37:02 PM EST

Uncritical support of all things martial is quickly becoming the new normal for our youth. Hardly any of my students at the Naval Academy remember a time when their nation wasn't at war. Almost all think it ordinary to hear of drone strikes in Yemen or Taliban attacks in Afghanistan. The recent revelation of counterterrorism bases in Africa elicits no surprise in them, nor do the military ceremonies that are now regular features at sporting events. That which is left unexamined eventually becomes invisible, and as a result, few Americans today are giving sufficient consideration to the full range of violent activities the government undertakes in their names.

Occupy Sandy (5.00 / 1) (#64)
by ruffian on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 03:44:11 PM EST

I've been following the Occupy Sandy Relief NYC group on Facebook today. They really seem to be all over the place doing good things. A good cause if your money is bored all by itself - send it their way.

Christie gets his hug from The Boss! (5.00 / 2) (#65)
by shoephone on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 05:00:37 PM EST

He was so happy he cried.

I see more GOP heads exploding...

: Two Christie Bromances in a week! (none / 0) (#66)
by Angel on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 05:22:32 PM EST

Obviously BTD is making a latte (none / 0) (#6)
by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:17:55 AM EST

On the air

LOL (5.00 / 1) (#7)
by ruffian on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:22:28 AM EST

Funny bit about sending Clinton to PA to listen to Ed Rendell's blather. Sometimes being a surrogate is a dirty job.


: BTD is at an undisclosed location (none / 0) (#9)
by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:00:22 AM EST

Where the latte machine works fine :)

Is the noise really that noticeable? (none / 0) (#56)
by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 02:27:40 PM EST

Then just wait until he takes over the late afternoon drive-time slot, and starts mixing margaritas.
;-D


: Wednesday Morning the blender will fire up? (5.00 / 1) (#68)
by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 05:49:12 PM EST

Interesting piece at McClatchy re e-voting (none / 0) (#8)
by DFLer on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:38:40 AM EST

Pentagon unit pushed email voting for troops despite security concerns

Reading more about Benghazi (none / 0) (#10)
by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:25:26 AM EST

The big issue seems to be that we didn't have a quick reaction force close enough for the comfort of some. Okay, that may be true and now the Pentagon will use this to have such a force in Sicily, and Djibouti (who has been splicing their own together) will get full funding and lots of love and will never have to splice anything again. Huge win for the big green machine.

Truth though, the CIA had everyone out and to safety and had reported Amb Stevens missing in 50 minutes. It is regrettable that they either didn't know where the panic room was, or they couldn't get into it. Delta coming out of Sicily couldn't have beaten the CIAs time on securing the people though and would they have found Stevens simply because they are Delta? Would they magically have known where that room was in an emergency situation or how to break into it?

I asked some rightie friends (5.00 / 1) (#18)
by ruffian on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 10:35:16 AM EST

who I should believe in an argument between McCain and Petraeus (CIA). So far they weigh in on the side of McCain over The Man Called Petraeus. But I can tell it hurts their heads.


: You are brave (none / 0) (