Wednesday Night Open Thread: Save Our Twinkies

A world without Twinkies? Or Hostess Cup Cakes ? The day may be coming as Hostess filed for bankruptcy. Maybe someone can buy it.

Hostess has about 19,000 employees and operates in 49 states. Annual sales are about $2 billion.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 07:31:11 PM EST
    I'm not a fan of twinkies but that's a lot of people to lose jobs. Very sad.

    The shrinking middle class (oops--naughty (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 07:47:49 PM EST

    Additionally, Hostess employees are unionized while most of its competitors aren't. As a result, Hostess has high pension and medical benefit costs.

    There must be more (none / 0) (#11)
    by NYShooter on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 08:04:03 PM EST
    to it than that. Unions have been pretty willing to negotiate wages, give-backs, and benefits over the past several decades.

    Just not information here to make the conclusion that it was the union's fault.


    correct (none / 0) (#29)
    by fishcamp on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 09:33:08 PM EST
    they have been around so long that their teeth have rotted out along with their pension plan

    I also loved twinkies (none / 0) (#6)
    by ZtoA on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 07:48:50 PM EST
    And also had an uncle who seriously lived on twinkies, ding-dongs and fritos. The fritos, being corn, were the vegetable. Unfortunately he collapsed from a vitamin B deficiency and never really recovered. I also got my love of lava lamps from him. At least they are good for one's mental health.

    Is life worth living (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 07:42:15 PM EST
    without access to a quick chilled Hostess Ding Dong?

    The only Hostess product (none / 0) (#10)
    by Zorba on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 07:59:16 PM EST
    I ever bought was Ding Dongs.  My kids loved them when they were in elementary school, so I would (very) occasionally buy them as a treat for their lunch boxes.  And they're in their 30's now, so it's been quite awhile.  Other than that, no Hostess treats, no Wonder Bread.  Wonder Bread is an abomination unto the Lord, anyway- it's not real bread.  ;-)

    My mom used to make a special trip (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 09:56:12 PM EST
    to the day-old bread store, but she wouldn't buy Wonder Bread no matter how cheap it was.  

    Agree on the Wonder Bread (none / 0) (#36)
    by cal1942 on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 11:10:10 PM EST
    Absolutely terrible stuff.

    The best white bread available at the corner grocery and in local supermarkets was bread from two locally owned large volume bakeries.  

    Locally owned large volume bakeries - long gone.

    We do have some small locally owned bakeries but the bread they produce is very pricey to say the least, not something the average family can afford to buy for everyday use.


    Food of the Gods (none / 0) (#62)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 09:05:47 AM EST
    When I was growing up (none / 0) (#66)
    by jbindc on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 09:30:11 AM EST
    Ding Dings used to be called King Dons.

    I loved them in the individual foil wraps - mmmmmm!

    I still getbthem occasionnally.  :)


    King Dons (none / 0) (#141)
    by BTAL on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:18:44 PM EST
    Now there's an embarrassing typo or verbal Freudian slip just waiting to happen.  ;-)

    When I was a kid (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 07:48:59 PM EST
    my mother used to take me to the Howdy Doody Show so i could be in the audience. One time I got to cut the Hostess Cupcake with Buffalo Bob. Really big moment, I even remember the dress I was wearing and I was only 5 or 6. I've loved the cupcakes ever since. Actually, I love Twinkies too,  and I do buy them occasionally.

    Your experience was much better than mine (none / 0) (#22)
    by easilydistracted on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 08:49:38 PM EST
    Jer. Ole Mr. Doody scared the he** out of me. His freckled face would appear on the tube and I'd run screaming and crying to any room except the TV room. As if that wasn't bad enough, "Santa" brought me a darned Doody doll one Christmas. My goodness what the heck were my parents thinking. I suspect my fear and disdain of clowns today is somehow linked to Howdy. Come to think of it, he resembles Chuckie. Hmm...I wonder...

    you didn't even like (none / 0) (#34)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 10:35:59 PM EST
    Clarabelle? He was awesome. Check out the RIP Clarabelle post I wrote in 2004 when he died.

    My fave was (none / 0) (#38)
    by Towanda on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:28:02 AM EST
    Princess Summerfallwinterspring, a woman for all seasons.

    I really liked Clarabell, too (note: no e at the end, as that would be the feminine form, and don't ask how I know such trivia!), and years later, I got to share a stage with Bob Keeshan.  Well, so did a thousand other graduates at a campus that awarded him an honorary degree.  

    By that point, as a nontraditional student, I was about the only one in the arena who knew him as Clarabell.  The others knew him as Mr. Greenjeans or something?


    Captain Kangaroo. (none / 0) (#40)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:38:06 AM EST
    Bob Keeshan was Captain Kangaroo. Hugh Branum was Mister Green Jeans, the good Captain's sidekick. I don't remember who played Bunny Rabbit.

    I knew Bob Keeshan when he was Clarabell and when he was Captain Kangaroo. Did I watch too much morning television as a child?


    I watched too (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 04:19:24 AM EST
    Although Captain Kangeroo was not one of my faves. Buffalo Bob lived in my town, he owned a shoe store, so going to that show always felt kind of homey. I went a few times a month until one day Clarbelle ran down the aisle with a hose squirting water and he got my new dress all wet. I cried and didn't want to go back after that. But I must must have done a good job on the cupcake because they asked me to do a commercial on another kids show, Wonderama, where I had to drink Cocoa Marsh -- a bottled chocolate milk, probably as bad for kids as Twinkies. I practiced the night before and got a big stomachache.

    I'm not sure having vivid memories of these long ago events is a good thing. Especially when I can never remember if I put conditioner in my hair 5 seconds before. Hope it's not a sign of creeping dementia. (i.e., Long term memory stays good, short term goes down the tubes.)


    Thanks (none / 0) (#51)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 08:25:15 AM EST

    Thanks for the memories.  My local was Casey Jones.  Casey, Bob, and the rest have all receded so far back in memory that your refresher is quite welcome.

    Wow, I thought I saw all those (none / 0) (#46)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 04:25:42 AM EST
    early 70's SNLs and I don't remember the Howdy Doody one. I would have loved to see it. Thanks for finding the transcript.

    Gilda was my favorite of the females. Ms. Rosanne Rosanandana or whatever, she was just so funny.

    I watched Portlandia for the first time tonight and there was an interview with Lorne Michaels who is executive producer and some SNL actors from the 90's in the skits. Pretty funny. Kind of like Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman-- on steroids.


    I too thought I'd seen every SNL with the (none / 0) (#53)
    by easilydistracted on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 08:31:28 AM EST
    original cast. I sure don't remember that one -- and I would have surely enjoyed it given the psychological scars left by that little wooden demon:-)

    Nope. (none / 0) (#58)
    by easilydistracted on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 08:45:22 AM EST
    Something not right about clowns, mimes and marionettes. I did enjoy your post. BTW, was the HD Show broadcast from Denver? Was it live?

    Those years were the best years of the show (none / 0) (#89)
    by Farmboy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 11:03:10 AM EST
    Mondays in high school were often spent hanging with friends and quoting lines from that weekend's show. We were all, wild and crazy guys!

    Thanks for the memory!


    I loved everything Hostess (none / 0) (#27)
    by Towanda on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 09:16:55 PM EST
    and so did my dentist, with every cavity.

    I did not realize how iconically middle American they are, heaven help us, until we met my now-family member from Australia, and her first request here was for the treat that she had heard about for years: a Hostess Twinkie.

    (Unfortunately, she was much less impressed than was I upon discovering the iconically Australian treats: Tim Tams.  Mmmmmm.)


    my coworker (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 08:52:27 PM EST
    at disney had a twinkie pinned to his wall for 6 years.  it was indistinguishable from a new one as far as feel and appearance and reportedly taste.  they had a blind test at the end of the project and the testee couldnt tell the difference.

    Insider Advantage (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 10:28:22 PM EST
    the newest Insider Advantage poll done today and released tonight for South Carolina:

    Romney 23
    Gingrich 21
    Santorum 14
    Paul 13
    Huntsman 7
    Perry 5

    my goodness (none / 0) (#70)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 09:48:50 AM EST
    that "big lead" evaporated literally overnight.

    I just saw the president of the SC Baptist Convention on teevee being asked about Romneys "little problem" and it seems like he did NOT get the memo but said flat out that it was a problem.  quickly adding that "no one is questioning his morals"


    Actually (none / 0) (#75)
    by jbindc on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 10:08:01 AM EST
    That same poll taken last month (the last time they did the poll, Gingrich was at 30.6% and Romney was at 18.7%. So in one month, Gingrich actually lost 9.3% and Romney has gained 4.4%.

    uh huh (none / 0) (#77)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 10:20:27 AM EST
    one thing you might also consider is that we are still in the pregame show of the sh!tstorm that is going to land there.

    buckle up!


    Maybe (none / 0) (#78)
    by jbindc on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 10:35:37 AM EST
    But Gingrich's star is fading fast and at thevrns of the day Romney will still be the nominee.

    Or, by next week, whatever "storm" you predict and hope foe, will have blown obey.

    Even the Obama campaign is now in the mode of campaigning against Mittens. They have been for a year mow.


    oh man (none / 0) (#80)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 10:38:00 AM EST
    the points just fly by you dont they.

    for actual democrats, like me, this is not about defeating Romney so much as damaging him.


    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 10:45:42 AM EST
    When Romney stands up there next to Obama though, I'm not afraid.  I know most everyone else thinks I'm nuts, but I think Obama can handle Romney easily.  Romney has NO ANSWERS, the entire Republican party has NO ANSWERS and our economy became this crippled due to everything they argued for and stamped their little foot about.  And anytime Obama has even attempted to argue for a solution that would make things better for the middle or the poor the whole Republican party shuts his face in the door and pins him there.

    I agree with BTD, Romney cannot win this.  Obama could lose this by making poor choices and poor campaigning.  I don't see those things happening.  


    and you are not the only one (none / 0) (#108)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:09:29 PM EST
    with Romney debate questions.

    watch the ad linked to in this thread.


    And the Entertainment (none / 0) (#85)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 10:51:04 AM EST
    Is it wrong to love republicans attacks aimed at republicans, don't care, it's a delight.  The Barbour pardons are proving to be a nice snack today.

    I'm sliding away from the D brand, but I many a million more issues with R's than D's.


    And I repeat (none / 0) (#87)
    by jbindc on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 10:56:18 AM EST
    Stuff thrown out this early like the Bain stuff just won't have the impact you think it will come November.

    This would have been KILLER stuff had the Dems been able to spring it in October, but it's January.  

    Getting giddy as a schoolgirl over this stuff now is silly.  


    this is so silly (none / 0) (#99)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:03:30 PM EST
    and apparently everyone but you know it.  first these attacks are far far more damaging coming from republicans than from republicans and second they are doing a really really good job of setting up the frame for the fall elections.
    the narrative for Romney is setting.  he is a heartless plutocrat who makes GHW Bush look like an everyman.

    would have been KILLER stuff had the Dems been able to spring it in October, but it's January.  

    oh yeah.  these facts would have been so much more effective on the people they are aimed at coming from Obama.


    oops (none / 0) (#102)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:05:28 PM EST
    republicans than from republicans

    republicans than from democrats obviously

    but please continue the desperate spin.  I love it.


    The ? of peaking too early (none / 0) (#100)
    by christinep on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:04:00 PM EST
    Your assertion, jbindc, that the Bain matter will have less of an impact as a result of being raised now rather than later is interesting.  There are a number of us who think that the gift of Bain is one that (urp & as they say) "keeps on giving."  

    While more often than not, I would agree that the big takedowns are better later than sooner, the Bain matter is more than about the incidents of Bain. It is about adding to the portrayal of Romney...as a greedy, vulture capitalist & all that. Really. That his own Republicans are the ones doing it (particularly Gingrich & Perry...the other big $$$ guys) could not have been hoped for, planned for, nor bought by us Dems. I'm sure that you realize the potency of that occurrence that will be replayed for the general audience--especially the Independents--in the General Election. It is what Bain symbolizes in a world that has changed sharply in terms of perceptions today of $$$ inequality stemming from Wall Street machinations over the years. That the Repubs handed up this matter is driving them up the walls as their own internecine angers eat each other up this week...because they know that their <Citizens United> $$$ via Newt & Rick have legitimized the charges agains some 1% all the more.

    Tho I'm having moments of giddiness about how Bain has played to date, I know that there will be the inevitable counter to the counter as the Repubs now reign in their boys.  But, geez, I keep thinking about the portrayal of John Kerrey as a flip-flopper...how it stuck...even with the realization that the Repubs overstated it & that it was out-of-context.  "I was for it before I was against it" vs "I like being able to fire people." Is it karma?


    <Citizens United> (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:32:32 PM EST
    how deliciously ironic would it be if the only ones really damaged by this ruling in this election was republicans?

    Agreed. And, President Obama (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:56:08 PM EST
    and the Democrats are likely to have been reluctant to pin  the vulture, venture capitalist labeling on Romney--fearing a stoking of the "socialist" and "class warfare" counter-attack.  Now, the Democrats have been given license to do so,  not with their own words, but those of Gingrich and Perry.   Gingrich, perhaps while mediating to Callista's choir songs or the  blowing of her French horn, will soon  come to the realization that he is baining his bridges, and,  thereby, jeopardizing his Tiffany revolving account. Never-the-less, he has paved the way for Democrats with golden pavers made of video clips.

    well said (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:08:08 PM EST
    but I wonder how much he really even cares.  he is almost 70.  a millionaire many times over and no doubt has investments that will assure him as many revolving charges he wants anywhere he wants.  and I think he may think the his party has really taken a crap on his head this cycle.  think of all the republicans who came out publicly bashing him when he went up in the polls.

    when you are in a china shop with a bull its not a good idea to poke it in the eye.


    this is so right (none / 0) (#105)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:07:43 PM EST
    Bain is very complicated.  so much so most will never understand its ins and outs but Romney is now stuck trying to explain them for the next 10 months.

    politics 101.  if you are explaining you are losing.


    And if the Demos think (none / 0) (#101)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:04:02 PM EST
    the Repubs can't show plenty of high profile Demos who have made a ton then they are smoking some fine stuff.

    and what exactly (none / 0) (#103)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:06:28 PM EST
    would your ridiculous point be?

    "High profile Demos" ... (none / 0) (#121)
    by Yman on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:31:37 PM EST
    ... who have "made a ton" by engaging in "vulture capitalism" who are running for POTUS?



    please (none / 0) (#123)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:33:37 PM EST
    write a letter to Romney and suggest he do this.

    I suspect that he has the list already. (none / 0) (#193)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 03:54:37 PM EST
    I just posted somewhere (none / 0) (#168)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 02:28:09 PM EST
    downthread that Sally Atwater the daughter of Lee Atwater - who also happens to be the father of the Willie Horton ad - just joined the Gingrich campaign.

    somehow I have the feeling of a circle closing.


    Yeah (none / 0) (#177)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 02:59:54 PM EST
    but wouldn't that be bad news for Obama too? If she's that effective in the GOP primary then what does it say as to what she can do to Obama?

    let me put it this way (none / 0) (#180)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 03:03:43 PM EST


    I dont care a rats patootie who his consultants are.


    Some days, it feels like things have (none / 0) (#90)
    by Anne on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 11:05:28 AM EST
    truly gone down the rabbit hole.  We have GOP primary candidates like Gingrich taking one of their own to task not because Romney isn't an adherent of long-cherished Republican principles, but because he is.  Do we think this means that whether it is Romney or someone else with the nomination, that there's going to be a complete 180 by Republicans, and they will adopt a populist economic agenda? Only if we are really drunk, maybe.

    And what happens when we get to the general election and they want to pretend that, oh, no, they didn't abandon their principles at all?  How do they explain that?  Why, the usual way, of course - just keep saying something until enough people believe that was always your position.

    David Dayen had this to say:

    To be clear, Romney has material to work with, especially with respect to his Republican rivals. Newt Gingrich, of course, worked for a storied private equity firm at one time. And the conservative movement is leaping to his aid, positing the Bain attacks as an attack on capitalism. But that's really the whole problem for Romney. His brand of vulture capitalism mirrors precisely the conservative worldview on "free markets." Those workers aren't entitled to a life of "luxury," luxury defined as the ability to get by on hard work. The economy has winners and losers, and those layoff victims just have to get better skills. The job creators will take care of them if they can just get their taxes low.

    Newt Gingrich has really opened a Pandora's box here. Conservatives have been allowed to skate by with their Randian worship of Wall Street titans for a long time. Gingrich is appealing to a white working class voter that, in the South at least, votes Republican. And he's doing it with an economic populist message, at least as far as he has pointed his attack at Romney. All the polls show that the public has an intuitive revulsion to the style of capitalism that has been practiced in this country for the past thirty years. Gingrich, by using that intuition to attack Romney, is also putting his entire party's economic message on trial.

    Obama's rhetoric is changing, too, back toward what we understand to be a Democratic message, but I don't know how he overcomes - with Democratic and independent voters, anyway - the fact that that is not how he has governed so far.  Republicans won't care what his record is - they will paint him with the most liberal brush they can find, and what's Obama going to do - counter that with how moderate-to-conservative he's been?  Because I sure don't see him accepting, much less defending, a label he can't even say without looking like he smelled something really bad.

    So, will we all be scratching our heads at the eventual debates between the GOP nominee and Obama, wondering, based on their responses and rebuttals, which one is the Democrat and which one is the Republican?  Will they both be saying on issue after issue, "me, too, only I will do it better?"

    What a goat rodeo this is becoming - and we still have almost 10 months of this ahead of us.



    Goat rodeo?? (none / 0) (#106)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:08:48 PM EST
    I think we have some "Fainting Goats!"

    To still a phrase, the only way Obama can win is if the Repub candidate is caught in bed with a dead girl or live boy.... Or if Ron Paul pulls the Little Admiral trick.



    Aldo Nova sang a song about you :) (5.00 / 3) (#112)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:17:31 PM EST
    Heh, heh ... (5.00 / 3) (#124)
    by Yman on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:35:12 PM EST
    A "five" for an Aldo Nova reference ...

    That song (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by sj on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 03:01:24 PM EST
    and Red Rider's "Lunatic Fringe" always remind me one of the other.  Love them both. And Lunatic Fringe is also appropriate.

    I love both of those songs (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 03:15:53 PM EST
    And they both play in my head sometimes when I read Jim.  That's just too freaky there!

    ANOTHER one ... (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by Yman on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 03:50:09 PM EST
    ... I'd forgotten about.

    Have to download these before I forget ... good music for running ....

    ... or reading Jim ...


    like to put your money where your (none / 0) (#109)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:11:59 PM EST
    mouth is buddy?

    Come on down to Tunica (none / 0) (#194)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 03:57:21 PM EST
    and we can gamble it on up.

    no no (none / 0) (#197)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 04:02:36 PM EST
    lets do it right here.  with witnesses.  bet me Obama wont get reelected.

    Wouldn't be that surprising ... (none / 0) (#125)
    by Yman on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:38:16 PM EST
    To still a phrase, the only way Obama can win is if the Repub candidate is caught in bed with a dead girl or live boy

    ... but the polls contradict your fairy tales.


    and (none / 0) (#127)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:44:24 PM EST
    this is before team Obama has even begun to unload on Romney what is going to make what is happening to him now look like a feedback from a fan club.

    which to be fair (none / 0) (#129)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:50:55 PM EST
    to Gingrich and Perry is the point they are trying to make to all the hand wringing republicans pi$$ing and moaning about what a bad idea it is to attack the "front runner"

    "long-cherished Republican principles" (none / 0) (#119)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:28:33 PM EST
    you forgot the high profile hang-um high southern governor pardoning hundreds of criminals.

    You mean like your man Prez Bubba (none / 0) (#195)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 04:00:18 PM EST
    and your current AG cutting loose someone who has fled the country?

    You know, after the big contribution... But that was just a co inci dence....

    Is that who you're thinking of??


    this doesnt even make sense (none / 0) (#198)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 04:02:53 PM EST
    last night (none / 0) (#79)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 10:36:15 AM EST
    I saw J alter - who I do not usually consider the sharpest knife in the drawer - make and interesting point:

    that Romney is saying to Adelsons (Newt sugar daddy) company, a publicly owned company, that it is an improper use of funds.  and that could be a model for progressives to do the same thing.

    however (none / 0) (#81)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 10:39:25 AM EST
    I wonder if, since O is supposed to have a billion bucks of his own money, Obama will denounce superpacs and go after Romney for using them.

    no idea.  but it seems like a smart thing to do.


    Maybe after Obama explains all those (none / 0) (#196)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 04:01:45 PM EST
    credit card contributions from outside the country...

    But what will we do (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by CST on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 09:33:18 AM EST
    when the zombie apocalypse hits???

    These days twinkies make me think of zombies.  Thanks Woody Harrelson.

    I was never allowed to eat hostess anything as a kid.  And as soon as I was old enough to eat them anyway I didn't really like them anymore.  But if I had to pick one it would be the twinky.

    Mitt Romney makes first GIANT (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 11:44:09 AM EST
    word mistake in addressing Obama.

    Issues of income inequality should be discussed in quiet rooms :)

    Say hello to LOSING and being a huge LOSER again Mitt Romney.

    Here is the new King of Bain (none / 0) (#130)
    by MKS on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:52:14 PM EST
    And the damn fools (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:08:10 PM EST
    complaining about losing jobs, benefits, health care will continue voting Republican.

    That really didn't really impress me (none / 0) (#139)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:12:09 PM EST
    as far as hitting Romney hard in a meaningful way.  The whole street has gone vulture and even Democrats have nurtured them...very recently.  Capitalism is cyclic, I'll hear a ton of lectures about how and when you have to sacrifice the weak so the strong can prosper and markets decide and Romney was only part of the deciding market.

    People are suffering right now though, that's the cycle we are in right now.  Lots and lots of suffering and loss and no solutions provided...only more suffering....and this is what Romney has to say about it.  Romney is his own poison, he doesn't even need help killing his own self off when facing Obama down :)


    What Donald said :) (none / 0) (#175)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 02:53:57 PM EST
    The bigger bottom line (none / 0) (#184)
    by BTAL on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 03:13:47 PM EST
    is that an incumbent takes an even larger brunt of the hit from the voting population when times are hard.

    Obama's "empathy" level isn't much better or something to bet the farm on.


    Romney is being Bainboated (none / 0) (#189)
    by MKS on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 03:29:57 PM EST
    If the issue being discussed is Romney's defense of Bain, then that benefits the Democrats.

    What makes Mittens' (none / 0) (#185)
    by MKS on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 03:14:18 PM EST
    role worse is that he profitted when the companies he acquired failed.....

    The idea is that the investors take the risk of losing their capital if the company fails....Mittens made sure he always made out like a bandit....

    Just like how the big finance houses hedged their bets by making sure they would profit in the event their real estate loans defaulted.


    well (none / 0) (#133)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:57:51 PM EST
    I dont think the first.  and certainly not the last.

    but what a freakin ODD thing to say.  seriously.


    He's high on New Hampshire or something (none / 0) (#135)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:06:18 PM EST
    The fact that he said this never goes away in the internet age.  Obviously he spoke before this statement could be focus group tested.  What a numbnuts

    honestly (none / 0) (#138)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:09:37 PM EST
    is it any dumber than the "wallet envy" thing?

    Nope.... (none / 0) (#140)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:16:43 PM EST
    How can he be this stupid though?  I never thought he was brilliant but he's shocking me.  He's supposed to be so smart, they tell all of us peons that's how he got so rich.  I guess being tall with great hair is a major factor when Wall Street selects who gets blessed.

    If only. (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:22:09 PM EST
    More to do with who wins the parent lotto.

    great minds (none / 0) (#144)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:26:40 PM EST
    I was just about to say I think its gets considerably easier if you father is a rich industrialist politician.

    Willard being exhibit A


    Ah yes...that again (none / 0) (#145)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:27:32 PM EST
    That decided a Harvard Business School graduate who also had the door to the Presidency opened to him for the same reason. He turned out to be as smart as a sack of hammers and he blew our whole economy to hell, shredded our military, and giggled to himself all the way back to Texas.

    I stand corrected (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:30:41 PM EST
    Willard would be exhibit B

    It's something to see, isn't I (none / 0) (#164)
    by christinep on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 02:15:20 PM EST
    ...when a very scripted, shaped, designed person goes off script. Like you, MT, I'm having trouble believing what my ears hear him say...are the synapses mixed up?  Maybe, tho, that is why he never has been able to win (and that the Mass. governorship was a fluke.) Here is where I think it is today (& that can change a lot): Romney is being defined by his Repub opponents, ever so continually & slightly still by the coming Dem opponents, and--very clearly--by his strange & stupide statements that dot his history. But then, since he is Plastic Man personified, we should expect an unseen new Romney to emerge during the next few months? Thoughts on what that might look like?

    what that might look like? (5.00 / 0) (#170)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 02:35:41 PM EST
    So, christine, once the rest of the (5.00 / 2) (#181)
    by Anne on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 03:09:18 PM EST
    field gets through slicing and dicing Mitt, what shape do you think the GOP's economic message - that is also going to be a casualty in that process - will take?

    I mean, how well does the GOP's dislike for social safety net programs and fondness for tax cuts at the upper income levels, their desire to roll back regulations that compromise the environment, consumer health and safety, and their great love of corporatist policy mesh with this populist economic message that is being used by Gingrich just to get Romney out of the way?

    Oh, wait - I know - this is all about hoping the GOP hoists itself on its own petard so that Obama, who shares many of the GOP's likes and dislikes but in a way that seems more mature, can walk into the end zone untouched.

    Just so we're clear, I think the entire field of GOP presidential wanna-bes would be terrible - maybe worse than terrible - for the country, and that, in comparison - and without digging too far below the surface - Obama looks like the only rational choice.  

    But he's going to the same place the Republicans are, which means he's no choice at all, unless you think we have to accept a choice between a sharp stick in the eye and a 2 x 4 to the back of the head.

    I know you don't see Obama that way - I get that you are generally pleased with his performance, and as such, you have every right to be fired up for an Obama win in November.  I hope you understand that for many of us, who aren't pleased, we see this as ending with the election of someone who doesn't represent the things we believe in - regardless of whether the next president's party affiliation is Democratic or Republican.


    I was a huge Twinkie fan as a kid (none / 0) (#2)
    by ruffian on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 07:37:03 PM EST
    when they came in a two-pack on the little cardboard card. Can't remember the last time I had one but of course they never taste as good as you remember. Never liked their chocolate cake products.

    Loved the pies too.

    My yo-yo weight issues are beginning to make sense.

    You'd think the state fairs market (none / 0) (#5)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 07:48:49 PM EST
    for deep-fried Twinkies would have revived this company's prospects.  

    It's tough to compete (none / 0) (#39)
    by Towanda on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:29:04 AM EST
    of course, with deep-fried butter on a stick.

    I keep expecting to tune in to Paula Deen (none / 0) (#76)
    by Anne on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 10:20:04 AM EST
    one day - y'aaaaaall - and see her doing this; she does have a recipe for deep fried butter balls, but they are contaminated with cream cheese...

    We never had Hostess snacks in my house growing up - my mom made brownies and chocolate chip cookies from scratch - and I can't honestly say we felt like we were missing out on anything.

    When I got to college, there was a girl across the hall whose dad worked for the company that made Little Debbie snacks; she had - no lie - a closet-full of all varieties of their stuff, and she freely shared them with everyone.  I would eat them, trying hard to like them, or to figure out why everyone else liked them; to this day, I can't even look at the boxes on the shelves in the store without feeling slightly nauseated - especially the Pecan Rolls.

    I'm just someone who bakes (and cooks) from scratch, and while I have on occasion made something from a box, it never felt right to me.  When the kids were in elementary school, my older daughter complained to me one day that "everyone else's mom makes these from a box - why can't you?"  Which kind of floored me.  

    It wasn't long before they saw the value of real food; but, they do tell me that "it's all your fault that we can't stand the boxed stuff now!"


    And don't forget the (none / 0) (#82)
    by easilydistracted on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 10:44:35 AM EST
    chicken-fried bacon, and deep-fried cheesecake, snickers (as though these things were not artery-clogging enough already), beer (I'm serious)coke, salsa and the list goes on see the link.



    Michelle Obama (none / 0) (#8)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 07:50:49 PM EST
    is behind this.  believe it.

    you probably thought (none / 0) (#9)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 07:54:30 PM EST
    that was a joke.


    Meanwhile, the demise of Hostess Brands is good news and bad news if your name is Obama. If your first name is Michelle, the disappearance of the snack food is another notch on your weapon in the war to change the way Americans eat.

    Well (none / 0) (#13)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 08:20:14 PM EST
    it's certainly bad new for Barack Obama as that's a lot of jobs and a lot of people that are probably open to not voting for him regardless of what Michelle has been advocating.

    original (none / 0) (#14)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 08:22:40 PM EST
    more hot air

    If your name is Barack, the closing of the Irving, Texas, plant and the attendant loss of 19,000 jobs can't be good when you are running for reelection.

    Not to be a contrarian. (none / 0) (#18)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 08:41:39 PM EST
    but there is no mention of closing as they are only filing for protection. They also filed for bankruptcy protection in 2004 while Bush was President.

    "The company does not expect any disruptions in the delivery and sale of its products while in bankruptcy."


    hot air (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 08:49:25 PM EST
    facts are not the rights strong point

    I love twinkies (none / 0) (#12)
    by richj25 on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 08:12:31 PM EST
    I'd be disappointed if I could never have another. That said, just because a company files for bankruptcy doesn't mean they are finished.

    True, but the NY Times said (none / 0) (#20)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 08:47:10 PM EST
    the same thing and then added: "Still, the disappearance of the Twinkie from store shelves now seems a real possibility."

    Nonetheless, Twinkies are a popular product (none / 0) (#31)
    by richj25 on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 09:58:07 PM EST
    and even if Hostess ceased to exist the process for
    making Twinkies would probably be picked up by someone.

    As long as there are... (none / 0) (#35)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 10:40:45 PM EST
    Little Debbie's and Tasty Kakes, I'll survive.  And by survive, I mean literally survive.  



    You and Josh (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 09:14:13 AM EST
    Actually Josh doesn't eat many sweets.  I think he inherited a sugar intolerance from his dad.  But if it wasn't for McDonalds he would have been put on a feeding tube at two.  It seemed like once on the feeding tube, everything became even more challenging for FSS kids.

    Don't forget Drake's Cakes... (none / 0) (#52)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 08:26:58 AM EST
    Devil Dogs, Ring Dings, Yodels, Coffee Cakes, Yankee Doodles...by far the bestest snack cake brand in all of America.  Ya got Drake's in CO?

    No Drake's. (none / 0) (#54)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 08:33:37 AM EST
    What was that Seinfeld episode about them?

    That's a travesty... (none / 0) (#59)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 08:46:18 AM EST
    I'll put Drake's up against that Hostess and Little Debbie sh*t in the Pepsi Challenge any day of the week;)

    Yes, Drake's Coffee Cakes played a key role in a Seinfeld episode.  Good memory sir!


    Next time I'm out East... (none / 0) (#64)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 09:17:11 AM EST
    ...I'll have to give them a try.  

    Did you see that study on MJ and its effect on lung capacity?  

    What's going on with Sanchise?  Mutiny in the ranks?  


    I did see that... (none / 0) (#69)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 09:47:24 AM EST
    I wonder if andgarden did;)

    Have you gotten a load of this Rick Simpson guy? Canadian dude who is passionate about the hemp oil cure.

    Dude Jet Nation is in major turmoil...finger pointing, anonymous talking sh*t quotes, what a mess.  Glad to be rid of Shotty but I ain't getting this Spagnulo hire.  

    Sanchez gets one more year to make the leap or else it's back to the drawing board at QB.  I'd love to be rid of the quitter Santonio, but who would take him?  At least Sanchez tries.

    I'm a Tebow fan this week...I'm dying to see the beaten by Timmy Tom Brady face!  


    Thanks bro (none / 0) (#98)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:01:47 PM EST
    It's great to see you on the right side!

    But 14 as the line doesn't make things look good!


    But 14 as the line ? (none / 0) (#113)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:17:33 PM EST
    are you talking Denver-New England?

    Line's pick'm


    sorry, scratch that (none / 0) (#116)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:19:50 PM EST
    wrong paper

    You realize (none / 0) (#120)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:28:39 PM EST
    you almost made my heart stop knowing I had to rush to get a bet down on the Pats and against my own Gator rooting interests. My quick glance to try and grab the potential free money said 13 1/2 and the heart returned to normal.

    yeah, whew! (none / 0) (#126)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:39:23 PM EST
    But, you know I would've covered your bet if my brief step into insanity caused you a monetary loss.

    Yup, absolutely:)


    One more year? (none / 0) (#148)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:30:42 PM EST
    I thought they were angling to get Pey-Pey signed, sealed and delivered?  

    I find myself in the unlikely position of rooting for the Ugg Boy and the Greatroits this week.  Or, ABBT.  


    I don't know about Peyton... (none / 0) (#162)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 02:13:05 PM EST
    an intriguing idea, but is he healthy?  And surely Dan Snyder will outbid us.

    Sorry bro, Pats hate trumps Tebow dislike...I'm rooting for Jesus in this one...followed by Gisele announcing she has found the lord and is running away with Tim Tebow to do missionary work in the offseason.


    They run away... (none / 0) (#174)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 02:53:50 PM EST
    to perform circumcisions on unwitting native boys in the Phillipines?  Harsh...

    Somehow I don't think Shannahan and Manning would co-exist very well together (come to think of it, could the Manning boys co-exist in the Big Apple?).  Surely, Danny Boy has some high profile busts to throw money at anyway.  


    Is that what the missionaries (none / 0) (#182)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 03:09:43 PM EST
    are up too?  That is harsh.

    Don't get me wrong, I like the sleek serpent look, but can't help but wonder what all those extra highly sensitive nerve endings woulda felt like.  It is a barbaric practice.


    That what St. Timmy... (none / 0) (#187)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 03:24:50 PM EST
    of Tebow does.  

    Tebow, who has no surgical training, was visiting an orphanage his father's ministry runs in the country and assisted with the care of locals who had walked miles to the temporary clinic the ministry helped organize.

    "The first time, it was nerve-racking," he said. "Hands were shaking a little bit. I mean, I'm cutting somebody. You can't do those kinds of things in the United States. But those people really needed the surgeries. We needed to help them."

    What's that old saying--I'd walk a mile for a circumcision?  


    Jesus Mary Joseph.... (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 03:42:41 PM EST
    and the sheep!  I thought we were joking!

    For the boys sake, I hope he is more accurate and precise with a scalpel than he is with a pigskin.


    can't wait (none / 0) (#49)
    by fishcamp on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 08:01:31 AM EST
    to get to the store today to buy some Twinkies for both the first and last time ever...

    Dave Weigel (none / 0) (#15)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 08:25:30 PM EST
    has a very funny piece up today that I read earlier.
    Rachel just did a very funny riff on it and had him as a guest.

    essentially it explains that this years republican primary is virtually and exact duplicate of the 2008 republican primary.

    one point.  McCain was not a Mormon.

    Haven't We Lived Through This Primary Before?

    Heck (none / 0) (#17)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 08:37:01 PM EST
    it's a repeat of every GOP primary I can remember. There's always the annointed one and that one wins in the end.

    "Maybe someone can buy it." (none / 0) (#16)
    by desertswine on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 08:34:25 PM EST

    Maybe Romney can buy it, figure out a way to make a few million, and then fire everybody anyway.

    a conservative site (none / 0) (#19)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 08:45:33 PM EST
    leaked this "rough cut" or something of this completely Bain-free Newt anti Romney ad.

    it is funny cutting and devastating.  and dead on.

    I hope you're right (none / 0) (#37)
    by cal1942 on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 11:14:06 PM EST
    This guy's going to get shredded.

    funny that the part of that (none / 0) (#72)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 09:53:20 AM EST
    the nooze is focusing on is "OMG Newt is even bringing up the DOG"

    like that was the most damaging part of that.


    oh, listen (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 03:29:47 PM EST
    being a dog lover I agree with every word of that.  I just think it funny that this is what the nooze focuses on and then by focusing on it tries to make it sound like no big deal.

    for that matter you can almost hear, in those remarks about the dog - or at least I can being from the south - echos of the "they really liked being slaves" thing.  you know, they really like being surfs.  its their way.


    btw (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 03:35:38 PM EST
    the part of the dog comments I hated most was the "he spends a lot of time in the kennel at home" part.

    great.  so you have a dog for a fashion accessory and you keep it in an air tight kennel when not "using" it.

    you sorry sack of sh!t.


    Koch Brothers up to more mischief (none / 0) (#25)
    by easilydistracted on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 09:04:21 PM EST
    Topeka -- Two business heavyweights -- the Kansas Chamber of Commerce and Koch Industries -- have targeted eight state senators for defeat in the Republican Party primary


    Occupy Twinkies (none / 0) (#32)
    by Edger on Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 10:25:38 PM EST
    January 17, 2012 - Capitol Hill: Bring 1,000,000 Tents, and Twinkies too...

    not to be a wet blanket (none / 0) (#41)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:24:12 AM EST
    but those of us in the Bay Area cannot think of Twinkies without also recalling Dan White & the "Twinkies defense"

    that said, i loved Hostess cupcakes, with their squiggle on top

    That was 32 years ago (none / 0) (#56)
    by brodie on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 08:34:57 AM EST
    Yet it was the first thing I thought of here on this criminal defense blog.  Can't even be sure Twinkies (or other quality Hostess products ) was specifically mentioned during the trial.  Probably was something cooked up by the local media.

    Hostess goodies were a staple food in most homes of people in the 50s and 60s.  Then came the 70s with the public discussion of healthy foods and worse later when the Feds required packaged food in the market to carry lists of ingredients and fat and calorie amounts.  Almost a surprise Hostess held on this long.


    Yes I had to (none / 0) (#61)
    by fishcamp on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 09:02:26 AM EST
    phone around to find a store that actually has some Twinkies left as they're literally flying off the shelves down here in the Conch Republic.  Glad to do my thing to save the company from "Romneyism".

    Well (none / 0) (#47)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 07:19:23 AM EST
    one of Obama's former economic advisors gave Romney cover on Bain capital.

    Cover based on reasoned thought (none / 0) (#48)
    by BTAL on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 08:00:06 AM EST
    and facts regarding the money made for pension fund/401k investments.  

    Wonder how many democrat 99%'ers benefited in their mutual fund retirement account from Bain.


    I never (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 08:21:19 AM EST
    thought that Bain was going to be Romney's downfall. Romney's problem is largely the same one that Obama has and it's a complete lack of empathy for the suffering that is going on in the country right now.

    That being said, lack of empathy is less of a problem than coming off as insane, petty and vindictive like Newt does.


    Nice to have versus need to have (none / 0) (#57)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 08:44:20 AM EST

    Having empathy would be nice.  However, getting someone that knows the difference between standing on the jobs accelerator versus standing on jobs brake is a must at this point.  Feelings are nice, but results are what matter.



    If (none / 0) (#176)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 02:57:53 PM EST
    you don't understand the problem you can't solve it. Very basic and simple. Both Obama and Romney believe in the "confidence fairies" that are magically going to appear and solve our economic problems.

    At this stage of the game (none / 0) (#55)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 08:33:42 AM EST
    The only thing that will save President Obama would be an irrefutable, sustainable improvement in the economy. That hope, unfortunately looks awful shaky right now. (Today's new jobless claims, and retail sales were a big disappointment)

    For Democrats to jump on phony issues like, "I like to fire people," or Romney ran a vulture private equity firm simply shows desperation.

    Let the Republicans shoot themselves, Dems should try to show they're the serious, intelligent party who have the middle class's interests at heart.

    Maybe the ACA's benefits will start to kick in in a more dramatic fashion over the next few months. And, maybe a dramatic uptick in the economy will take place.

    My guess is, he's had three years of ignoring the problem, and it may just be too little too late.


    Couple things I learned recently (none / 0) (#60)
    by brodie on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 09:00:45 AM EST
    The peace sign or symbol we've seen since the 60s --  vertical line from which are extended at 45 degree angles two lines drawn downward -- was created out of despair by someone connected to the late 50s Nuclear Disarmament movement.  The extended arms are the semaphore for the letter N and the vertical line is the semaphore for the letter D.  The designer was originally inspired by the Goya painting of a man facing military firing squad who is painted standing with arms extended.

    But several independent sources (one intriguing source from way out in left field, plus Wiki) the resulting symbol actually represents Death or Death of Man.

    No wonder we've had so many wars in the past 50 years.  

    The correct symbol I'm told is vertical line with arms extended upward, symbolizing the Tree of Life, Spiritual Evolution and Peace

    I think it looks like (none / 0) (#65)
    by jbindc on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 09:26:40 AM EST
    The Mercedes symbol.

    Interesting (none / 0) (#160)
    by ZtoA on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 02:06:33 PM EST
    That makes visual common sense. Would love to see a link to the  way out in left field source you mention.

    I'll take that request (none / 0) (#178)
    by brodie on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 03:00:26 PM EST
    under advisement.  Though disclosing it would probably ruin (what's left of) my pristine reputation here.  Mighty controversial left field source, well outside of the mainstream, the stuff of which angry mobs are formed.

    Four Marine snipers headed to prison (none / 0) (#68)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 09:47:16 AM EST
    at some point in the near future.  What a mess.

    unbelievable (none / 0) (#71)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 09:51:18 AM EST
    that they would do it but even more unbelievable that they would photograph it.

    hey morons, ever hear of a little thing called the internet?


    I was making coffee and came to the (none / 0) (#73)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 09:59:51 AM EST
    living room to find my husband's head in his hands in front of the news.  Since Petraeus and McChrystal headed into Afghanistan it has never been clearer that there is zero tolerance for this behavior.  It is really disturbing that some think they can defy their leaders and do things like this.  I have to wonder if it has something to do with the "sniper" culture.  An Army sniper asked my husband for a rec for flight school.  My husband considered it until he investigated his facebook.  He had Afghanistan photos up and some of the things he had for captions though not overtly disrespectful were covertly so.  He got no rec, not ever.

    "sniper culture" (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 10:06:29 AM EST
    I would suggest to them that they consider starting a sniper support group.

    they are going to need it.


    I Would Chaulk it Up To... (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 11:12:25 AM EST
     ...the horrors of war.

    We send all these kids in these messes, tell them it's OK to kill X & Z, but not A & B.  They are away from anything resembling normalcy and then wonder why a couple of them crack under the pressure.  We want them to behave like savages, but then flip it off when we say so.

    I'm not defending the behavior, they should be accountable for their actions, but it's not unexpected, it what happens to people under the duress of war, or so history seems to indicate.  Just more lives cut short and more lives ruined.

    And leadership plays an important role, even the finest leadership is going to have problems because human beings aren't robots.  They are going to veer off the program from time to time.

    I would add add that the best of best in leadership would keep these kids from ever finding out the horrors of war.  And in this case, even adequate leadership would have done that.


    All true (none / 0) (#94)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 11:31:57 AM EST
    I see it as all failure of leadership.  My husband often talks with younger soldiers though about that point of taking life, the point where you find that you will now pull the trigger.  It is very serious business, and in the past was not spoken of other than in some sort of crazy glorifying way.  It is horrifying.  It is almost always horrifying.

    Many military leaders talk to the those younger about this openly now, and about even choosing to not take a shot when the ROE would not find you in the wrong.  It has been ten years out there, everyone has stared into the abyss now and knows how soul destroying killing others is.

    I can't help but view what I have seen in more than one sniper individual now as a failure of the leadership among sniper culture.  Can someone who is a surgical assassin be as much of a feeling human being as the rest of us?  I don't know.  I have heard many discussions about it, but nothing definite.

    All the many branches and tasks develop different weaknesses.  Aviation has problems working well with others.  They tend to think they are the smartest people in the room and they don't get as much flying debris splattered on them.  They often feel cleaner when they really aren't.  They are poor listeners of others in the fight too.

    I think it is important to know what the specific weaknesses of certain areas of service are, and to have leaders who explore those and address them.  Sadly, these four have received intense training and passed everything with blazing flying colors only to have their lives end up devastated and their nation deeply shamed.  I don't think it was a given that it would go down this way simply given the circumstances they live in and survive.


    Snipers Ain't the Only Ones (none / 0) (#128)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:50:53 PM EST
    Can someone who is a surgical assassin be as much of a feeling human being as the rest of us?

    I am trying to figure that out, somehow there is more humanity in killing someone closer ?

    Snipers aren't the only ones accused and convicted of shameful acts.  And certainly not the only ones to glorify killing.

    I could probably guess where your husband works by process of elimination.  Funny about aviation, but in all fairness they are more important than anyone else... joke, but they are.


    "killing someone closer ?" (none / 0) (#131)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:55:42 PM EST
    actually that seems fairly obvious to me.  you have to see them die and maybe even look them in the eye as they do it.  heck of a lot harder I would think.
    not being a authority of such things.

    I think another question about this is what happens to these guys.

    do they just get slapped and kicked out of the military?  in which case we have a bunch of angry trained sniper killers who clearly IMO have mental issues.

    who climbs a water tower first?



    What ?? (none / 0) (#154)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:46:42 PM EST
    who climbs a water tower first?

    Been a problem lately ?  Whitman was before I was born and I am 41.  Snipers haven't had the adjustment issues others have, not even close.

    ...you have to see them die and maybe even look them in the eye as they do it.  heck of a lot harder I would think.

    Good gravy, that makes absolutely no sense.  Normal human beings like distance for a reason when they kill someone.  Serial killers and other sociopaths like it close up.


    I'm fairly certain they will do prison time. (none / 0) (#155)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:56:11 PM EST
    I don't know for how long, but since Obama has been President it has been made clear to ALL that the rules of respecting the people, living and corpse, and the culture are being fully enforced with zero tolerance for intolerance.  I found this write up at VetVoice, where the author also feels like this is a leadership failure as I do.  I don't how much time these guys will do, but they will be court-martialed and I don't know how they get out of doing time.

    They could get out of doing time if any of the leadership over them screwed up and pronounced them guilty before they faced trial.  All I hear are crickets and investigations though.  They are going after them full bore.

    I think you would be shocked if you knew how many trained snipers were on your streets :)  I thought military trained snipers had a registry they must register with that tracks them, but I could be wrong.


    Aviation is certainly important (none / 0) (#161)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 02:09:34 PM EST
    when guns are blazing.  My husband is an Apache pilot.  He says that it always makes him feel good when he interviews new students and someone is coming in from the infantry because the Apaches saved his life in a couple of fire fights and he wants to do that for other guys on the ground.

    Nobody is more important though. Some can be more effective in different situations, but I don't see anyone as more important.

    Unless of course you jest...because there are more than a few pilots out there who are more important than anyone else until the day they die.  And they will draw their last super special breath arguing that too.  


    Rucker? (none / 0) (#163)
    by easilydistracted on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 02:13:08 PM EST
    Of course (none / 0) (#165)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 02:18:36 PM EST
    There is no other place on earth than Mother.  At least not for us right now.  The allergy/asthma capital of the United States....bleh!

    The Apache reference gave it away (none / 0) (#167)
    by easilydistracted on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 02:26:17 PM EST
    I'm sure you said it previously one time or another I just haven't noticed. I work for a defense contractor with several contracts at Rucker. Visited the site this past fall during a trip to Tyndall. You're right...allergy capital.

    "horrors of war" (none / 0) (#111)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:17:25 PM EST
    you know what.  that might possibly explain the action.  but IMO thats a pretty big stretch.

    filming it and sending it to your girlfriend or whoever to post on facebook or whereever is plain dumb a$$ ignorance and has nothing to do with their leadership or lack thereof.

    it makes the whole military and the whole country look like a bunch of idiot cowboys.

    I hope they get slapped down hard.


    you been in combat? (none / 0) (#156)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:56:31 PM EST
    or are you just an expert on everything?

    read much? (none / 0) (#158)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 02:01:47 PM EST
    not being a authority of such things.

    Brady v. Tebow (from my niece's (none / 0) (#84)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 10:50:21 AM EST


    hahahahaa (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by CST on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 10:53:49 AM EST
    how is this even a question??

    Brady hands down.

    This makes me miss the world cup.  Soccer players > football players any day of the week.


    But (none / 0) (#88)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 10:59:23 AM EST
    who is she rooting for?

    Most likely Tebowing--FL gal. (none / 0) (#151)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:39:44 PM EST
    Thanks for the Beefcake Link (none / 0) (#92)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 11:20:51 AM EST
    Not really.

    I am cheering for Tebow, if they pull this out and the Texans win, the AFC Championship will be right here in my town.

    The fact that I can even think like that is so awesome, Houston hasn't had a NFL playoff win since 1993.

    Odds maybe 1:10, but better than -0-.

    Then of course it will be my home state Pack against my current town Texans.  A real treat with the Pack winning in overtime.


    Wade standing tall once again. (none / 0) (#93)
    by easilydistracted on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 11:28:39 AM EST
    Gets fired from Dallas goes to Houston (a city generally despised by Dallas) and now in the second round of the playoffs, while the Cowboys get to sit and watch. Good for Wade, good for the Texans.

    Wade has already... (none / 0) (#134)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:04:46 PM EST
     ...talked to Tampa Bay, sucks.  He took our D from nearly last to 2nd I believe.  

    But with the coach void in the NFL, he will surely be head coach somewhere.  Hopefully an NFC team like TB so we don't have to play him for a couple years.


    The Pack has a problem (none / 0) (#153)
    by Towanda on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:43:13 PM EST
    in the coaching staff this week that is so sad.  The offensive coordinator Philbin and his family lost a son to drowning, a sweet-looking kid in his twenties (who was on thin ice in several ways, apparently troubled with a record, although it's one of those "sexual predator" records that, in that state, are slapped on all sorts of kids who dated 17-year-olds; what the case was is unclear).

    Philbin's role is crucial, of course, and he has had to be replaced all of this week, and he probably won't be back for this weekend, either.  


    Please Tom Brady (none / 0) (#95)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 11:37:41 AM EST
    Make a commercial supporting It Gets Better.  I will love you forever and ever and ever and ever.  I will have it written into my eulogy that I loved Tom Brady until the day I died :)

    MT forgive me for this (none / 0) (#97)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 11:55:35 AM EST
    Who does a feminist root for?

    Case in point...pull for the quarterback that leaves his pregnant girlfriend for a multimillionaire supermodel, or pull for the quarterback that spends his free time helping sick kids?

    For the record, I like both teams and both quarterbacks and will be pulling for Saturday night's winner to win the Super Bowl should they advance that far.


    I bet (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by CST on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:08:49 PM EST
    Tom Brady supports access to birth control :)

    As long as the pregnant girlfriend (none / 0) (#104)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:07:34 PM EST
    is adequately economically cared for...she's probably better off without Brady.  This is how a feminist thinks.  Or maybe just a feminazi like me.

    If I were in her shoes, I would be okay :)  I was a single parent, shed the butthead and carried on.  Her butthead is much more well-heeled than mine was :)

    Tim Tebow isn't helping sick kids when he supports his mother's lies about how he was supposedly a sick kid that God magically healed and saved from the forced abortion.

    I get very emotional about all of that.  I chose to have my Josh.  We just got back from two grueling days in Atlanta.  They were going to do the very dangerous halo procedure because if we don't address his problems we will lose him.  Josh got sick though, actually I got sick first.  They put Josh's surgery off to see if he was going to get sick as well and he did.

    He is super stressed and on Ativan, we drove home late last night and don't know when they will reschedule because two insanely skilled surgeons will have to do this together so must be scheduled together and have schedules that will allow it.

    I just cannot ever get over Tim Tebow's commercial and his mom's lies.  They fight to place women and children in extreme danger and under extreme stresses and pain and suffering against their will.


    Let me slightly retract (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:14:43 PM EST
    my Super Bowl rooting interests. If Drew Brees is against Tebow or Brady, I'll sit and watch and enjoy with nothing but smiles no matter the winner.

    If there is a God, Drew Brees wins :) (none / 0) (#115)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:19:34 PM EST
    if I call a tie (none / 0) (#114)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:19:24 PM EST
    can I have both?

    You are so easy (none / 0) (#117)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:20:01 PM EST
    you have (5.00 / 3) (#118)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 12:23:05 PM EST
    no idea

    the more face time (none / 0) (#143)
    by CST on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:23:21 PM EST
    Romney gets the more his "electibility" drops.

    Some people think this is all coming "too early".  Personally I'm in the camp that thinks the longer this goes on the better.  By the time November rolls around even the 1%ers will be sick of him.

    This is a man who doesn't carry anything smaller than a $100 bill on a campaign stop.  He's not going to "get it".  For all the flack the Obama's get about not "getting it" either, Michelle still shops at Target, and it doesn't seem like she's faking it.  $hit like that matters, and I'm not talking about clothes.

    Lady Gagbama (none / 0) (#146)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:27:43 PM EST
    probably already seen this but its funny.

    and alot of work.

    would have been way better if he was in a meat dress tho.

    just heard Sally Atwater (none / 0) (#149)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:36:21 PM EST
    daughter of the late Lee Atwater about whom wiki says this:

    During his years in South Carolina, Atwater became well known for running hard-edged campaigns based on emotional wedge issues.

    dont know much about her but if she is a chip off the old block, so much for the high road.

    oops (none / 0) (#150)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:36:50 PM EST
    just heard she joined the Gingrich campaign.

    And then, there's (none / 0) (#152)
    by jbindc on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:42:54 PM EST

    Jobless claims jump back to 399,000 after holiday season

    First-time claims for jobless benefits rose steeply last week as employers shed holiday workers.

    Applications for unemployment insurance rose by 24,000 to a seasonally adjusted 399,000 in the week ending Jan. 7, the highest level in six weeks, the Labor Department reported on Thursday.

    The increase isn't an unusual occurrence, as layoffs typically rise in January -- the Labor Department struggles to make adjustments to the widely varying data this time of year -- as temporary workers leave the workforce after the holiday season.

    The four-week average, a less volatile measure than the weekly figures, was up to 381,750, an increase of 7,750 from the previous week's revised average of 374,000. Initial claims had been steadily falling and had hit their lowest level in more than three years in December as the labor market showed signs of healing in recent months.

    Economists say the sign of a healthy job market is when claims for benefits drop below 375,000, which happened for two weeks in December.

    Surprisingly, this is getting very little (none / 0) (#157)
    by BTAL on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 01:56:49 PM EST
    coverage on the Intrawebs, especially on the political sites.

    Am personally curious how many times they sharpened the pencils to get to 399,000 vs 400,000 - same psychology used in a $3.00 vs $4.00 price tag.

    The other half of today's economic news is the drop in December consumer spending - the lowest in 7 months.  The only "up side" is that 2011 overall spending was higher than 2010.


    you can make sure it is (none / 0) (#169)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 02:30:25 PM EST
    that can be your job.

    Wait till it is revised up (none / 0) (#171)
    by BTAL on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 02:45:49 PM EST
    next month, just like the "improved" November numbers were revised up this month.

    thats (none / 0) (#173)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 02:48:51 PM EST
    the spirit