Thursday Afternoon Open Thread

Both BTD and I are busy at work.

Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Good news for some here (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 01:13:28 PM EST
    From inside the military the drawdown to 3,000 in Iraq looks like a serious proposition.  It's strange to me reading commentary from talking heads today about how it would be a mistake.  Yesterday when people that I know were talking about it, nobody was upset or thought it was a mistake.  It would seem that nobody we know in uniform wants to get blown up or die in Iraq these days....NOBODY

    Changing the subject (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by sj on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 01:44:08 PM EST
    I've been [im]patiently waiting for the results of your appletini taste-off.  Did you have it this weekend?

    We are doing it this Saturday (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 02:33:49 PM EST
    We had to cancel our Labor Day taste off because of migraines.  It has to be something allergy related.  I got one first, but then within hours the future groom's mom had one and then so did the future groom (his was the worst though).  That was pretty crazy, have no idea what it is that got all three of us, and we aren't all genetically related which is really bizarre.

    They had a Labor Day tent sale at the class six though when I was liquor shopping.  I had never been to one before, and they were selling 1.75 liters of different Vodkas.  I must have looked like a huge lush hauling those huge bottles out.  I bought a giant cheaper vodka for taste testing but a giant Grey Goose for the wedding.  And a Giant 1800 because I could :)  The bottles are so big though they don't fit in our little house bar.


    A "handle" of Goose (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by easilydistracted on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 03:19:02 PM EST
    deserves better placement than a bar shelf anyway, Tracy. Showcase that bad boy in a conspicuous location in your living room.  

    We need to start from scratch (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by loveed on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 01:44:03 PM EST
    This is the same old BS. 12billion a year saved from Home Care aid. The poorest people. GE do not pay taxes.

     Where do you think this super committee should start?

    the same old BS...

    On a more cheerful note, is it ever (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 02:16:46 PM EST
    going to stop raining?

    Here in north-central Maryland, it has been raining since Monday - I think we've had close to 10 inches of rain.  I made the mistake of going out yesterday when it - briefly - stopped raining, but it soon began to pour again, and by the time I was on my way home, the main road to my house was covered with moving water, and the intersection at the street just before mine was like a river.  A car just on the other side of the cross-street was up to its grille in water, so I had to turn around and figure out some other route.

    I called my daughter's boyfriend, who was home, and I thought I had a good route until I was about 2 miles from home, when, coming down a hill and around a bend, saw the road ahead also covered with moving water.  I couldn't tell how deep it was, or how far it extended because of the curve in it, so went back up the hill to the church parking lot and called daughter's boyfriend, who said he would come get me in his truck.

    He couldn't get down the back end of our street - there was a car stuck in water and debris rushing down the hill, so he had to go back the way he came and go the back way.  Making our way home, we came to a point in the road where a pipe ran under a little "bridge" to carry normal run-off out of the fields - it was completely overwhelmed, and looking into the field, there was water as far as I could see.  We made it through, and then came to where the Western Run was closer to the road - it was well over its banks, rushing fast and within yards of the little house that sits up next to it - fortunately, the way the river curves and the road is laid out, the road did not have standing water on it there, so we were able to keep going.

    More deep water on the low, flat stretches, but we finally made it home.

    A couple hours later, we saw video of the road I had originally taken as my alternate route home - well, we couldn't actually see the road anymore, because it had flooded the entire area.  Here's a picture.

    here's more - video and still pics - of what is normally a sleepy little body of water.  In the very first still photo, where you see the blue car is the road I originally took to try to get home - once you turn, the road dips way down, and the Western Run runs along side it, about another eight feet down and probably a good 10-15 yards away, so you get some idea of how much rain we were getting and the effect on the area.  About 40 seconds in, there's video.

    Makes me shiver a little when I think about how little time there was between when I came through there, on just wet road, and when it all went to hell.

    Here're more pics of what we were dealing with.

    OMG!!!!! (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by caseyOR on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 02:31:43 PM EST
    That is my totally appropriate response to your post, Anne. Again, OMG!!!

    It sounds like you are now trapped in your home with no way out. Is that true? Do you still have power? Any chance your home will flood?

    Out here in the relative weather calm of the Pac NW, we are in the midst of our only run of 90 degree + weather this year. I can't complain. Hopefully, this burst of heat will inspire the tomatoes to finally ripen.

    Wildfires are the scourge here. The high heat combined with wind is making it hard for firefighters to contain these blazes. Smoke and haze from the Dollar Fire on Mt. Hood has pushed into Portland, making for some dangerous breathing conditions. And the flames are moving a little too fast for comfort toward the Bull Run watershed, the source of Portland's pristine and tasty municipal water. If the fire gets to Bull Run, well, that would be very bad.

    Still, I can freely come and go with no worries that my car will be swept away by rushing water. Take care.


    We are fine - at the top of a hill, so (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 05:00:12 PM EST
    no problems with flooding, but - at times yesterday it was a little like living on an island, with almost all routes out somehow compromised by standing or rushing water.

    We have kind of been laughing about the fact that, whenever I take some extended vacation time, the monsoons arrive; maybe I should have gotten on a plane to Texas.

    So, to review...earthquake, hurricane, flooding...good thing it's not a big cicada year, huh?


    I Wish We Could Get Some Rain.. (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 02:42:49 PM EST
    ... all summer, less than an inch easy.

    Today on my 8 mile trek to work, I got sick to my stomach from the overwhelming smell of smoke.  They are telling old people and kids to stay in if they can.  I can smell it at work, faintly.

    I live in Houston, they say the whole city is in smoke today.

    If there was someway to move your extra rain over here...

    At least the heat has broken, 90 on Tuesday, felt like heaven, and 67 this morning.  After being over a hundred for 45 days, I felt I needed a light jacket.


    Grass fires starting here (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Towanda on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 03:51:16 PM EST
    along tracks, and the land is like tinder after weeks and weeks with little rain -- so we may not have our lovely Midwestern autumn this year, because many trees are so stressed that they started dropping leaves weeks ago and are almost bare.  Especially the maples, usually so colorful.

    It's just odd pockets of the Midwest like ours, as we went south an hour and a half away last week to an art fair, and the moment that I got out of the car, I was startled by the lush green of the lawns -- with not a fallen leaf on them.

    My spouse noted that my eye kept wandering from the artworks to the vistas beyond of green, green, green that we haven't seen in so long.


    One Fire Was Started by a Plane... (none / 0) (#48)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 04:51:38 PM EST
    ... forced to make an emergency landing, clipped a power line, and the sparks started a fire.  Nutzo.

    I here you on the green, it's so beautiful when everything is brown.


    Trees (none / 0) (#92)
    by chrisvee on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 08:20:41 PM EST
    here in my corner of PA are half-dead (from the lack of rain in early summer) and half crazy new growth (from the deluge of rain in the last month).  Just plain weird.

    We've been saying that we're so (none / 0) (#96)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 08:42:33 PM EST
    grateful there hasn't been a lot of wind accompanying this rain - with the ground so soft after Irene, adding more rain and wind would be a recipe for more trees to come down.

    I sure hope this isn't a preview of the coming winter - this much precipitation, in the form of snow, would be paralyzing.


    Austin... (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 04:47:06 PM EST
    ... is where the 1300 homes went up in smoke, or rather outside Austin.  Plus Lake Travis is low, low, low.  Sounds like they had that fire 50% contained last time I looked.

    These firefighter, man, there is nothing like them.  Fighting fires all summer in 100+ degree heat in full firefighting regalia.  Amazing dedication, just can't say enough about them, sure hope they never hit the republican scourge on public employees.

    They say stay in, but the heat wave just broke and no one who can be outside is inside.

    I have never experienced anything like it, the worse part is the clay in the soil here is shrinking causing massive water main breaks.  The valuable water running down the streets, the city can't keep up with production or the water main breaks.

    And the dead trees everywhere, a crying shame.


    That's reminiscent of the summer (none / 0) (#52)
    by Towanda on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 05:01:57 PM EST
    a few years ago in southern Australia, temps above 115 degrees and then came the record wildfires.

    We were there two years later, and the land still was scarred -- as were the people, strong as they are.  That was a terrifying summer for them.  I'm sorry, as you and Texas will not recover fast from this.


    I spent the Labor Day Weekend (none / 0) (#86)
    by easilydistracted on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 07:18:36 PM EST
    in the Hill County west of Austin. Streams, ponds small lakes, many dried up. Returning home Monday morning the smoke from the fires in Bastrop County east of Austin filled the sky. Winds gusting to 40 MPH fueled the inferno along with low humidity. Some families only had time to gather their children, pets and whatever they could grab in their arms before a hasty exit from their home. As of yesterday, many of those families still didn't know whether their homes had been destroyed. Police and fire departments were posting photographs of destroyed property and locations on large bulletin boards at the rescue locations. Imagine, learning from a posting on a bulletin board that you lost your home and belongings.

    From the TV coverage, my (none / 0) (#27)
    by caseyOR on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 03:03:48 PM EST
    impression is that d@mn near the entire state of Texas is on fire. And parts of Oklahoma City went up in flames. Hundreds of homes lost.

    Out here we have been so lucky weather-wise this summer. Makes me a bit apprehensive about what nature will hit us with this winter. It does seem like it will be our turn for weather catastrophe.

    That smoke, Scott, can be a killer. Take care. Stay inside as much as possible. We are getting the same warnings to children, the elderly and the ill to stay inside and close the windows. Good advice except that many here do not have air conditioning ( I don't.), and the temps are 90+.

    If I had the power I would summon a massive rain storm to blanket the whole of the Lone Star State. :-)


    Texas had the hottest summer in history (none / 0) (#44)
    by easilydistracted on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 04:39:26 PM EST
    according to the Natl Weather Service. Average temperature of 86.8 degrees. Its been brutal. Some 70 days of triple digit high temperatures in the DFW area.

    wunderground had a "dense fog advisory" (none / 0) (#78)
    by Fabian on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 06:09:16 PM EST
    in TX - puzzled, I looked - it was a smoke advisory.

    I think TX better think about how they are going to adapt to a changing climate, because I'm thinking this is going to be more "common".  Certainly not the "new normal" but something to be both expected, predicted and planned and prepared for.

    It doesn't surprise me in the least.  The hurricanes incidence is as predicted: more (because of warmer waters) but not as many major hurricanes (because of increased atmospheric turbulence).

    And TX is looking to slash the fire fighting budget by almost a third.  Way to go guys.


    Stay safe (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 02:43:48 PM EST
    Wow, really bad (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 03:53:04 PM EST
    I feel so isolated here in FL with no severe weather. Kind of unfair that we miss winter and this too.

    Not that I'm complaining.  

    Stay safe Anne.


    Just saw news re Pennsylvania (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Towanda on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 03:53:55 PM EST
    hit by the same rains and serious flooding.  But your photos tell the tale just as well -- and once my eye can look away from the awful water levels, I also can see that you have wonderful old historic buildings there.  I hope that they as well as all of you make it through this, Anne, as the news reported basements caving in Pennsylvania.

    Be safe, stay dry, and keep trusting your instincts.


    Situation in PA (none / 0) (#93)
    by chrisvee on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 08:22:29 PM EST
    is very bad indeed.  Some portions of the state are having flooding as bad on 1972 when Agnes hit. :-(

    Holey moley (none / 0) (#16)
    by sj on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 02:24:09 PM EST
    I am totally lucking out by living in the city right now.  Be careful and safe.

    And it's raining - AGAIN! (none / 0) (#88)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 07:27:37 PM EST

    On the plus side, since the sun hasn't been out in days, I've not felt guilty about spending some quality time inside purging my house of a lot of stuff that's just been taking up space.  Am planning to pull down the wall paper in the family room and foyer and do something new.

    My husband starts to get anxious about the purging, but, seriously - if we haven't used it in more than 5 years, forgot we even had it - why do we need to keep it?

    After having to clean out my aunt's house, and my uncle's and then my mom's when she moved to the retirement community, I cannot, in good conscience, leave my kids with a houseful of stuff to deal with someday.

    Besides, there are a lot of people who have nothing who can use what I don't need, so why not?

    But, seriously, I could use a little sun soon.  Even an hour would be nice.  Probably won't happen until I head back to work!


    On my! (none / 0) (#97)
    by Madeline on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 08:44:08 PM EST
    That's incredible.
    Good luck and stay safe.

    Some excerpts from the speech (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 05:27:03 PM EST
    and the proposal are starting to leak out. I don't hate what I see. It's not enough, but it does put the onus on Congress to do something, which is important.

    I still look at this production from the perspective that it is important to keep Republicans form the Presidency in 2012. I'm not really interested in debating that goal.

    $450 Billion (none / 0) (#59)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 05:27:49 PM EST
    is a pretty big number.  

    $4.5 Trillion in deficit spending (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 05:29:51 PM EST
    is more like what we need.

    That said, I think it's clear that we will get neither out of this Congress.


    It's a false number... (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Romberry on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 05:59:25 PM EST
    ...and in relation to the problem, it isn't even really a big number if it were a true number. Much of what Obama intends to count as part of his "plan" is merely a continuation of the status quo. And another substantial portion is tax cuts. And as ought to be apparent after 30+ years of doing the tax cut thing over and over, tax cuts don't work.

    I don't think I'll even listen to the (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 05:58:15 PM EST
    speech tonight. The pre-releases, such as an extended and fortified payroll tax holiday, more tax cuts, and so forth, make this a republican 1950's deal... I like Ike!

    Doesn't that idiot in the white house know that his mentor Reagan raised taxes numerous times?

    I get tired of the frikkin' kabuki.

    I better plan on moving to Colombia, because I don't know how much longer I can tolerate it here. We've begun a lost decade, and the man at the top in government is responsible. "New normal?" don't make me vomit.

    Change the policies. Change the candidate. What we have is...Japan, mid-80s.

    Brilliant, Obama and team. Brilliant.

    I'm in a cranky mood because of the leaks about this crap. Might as well place $450 billion aside for the World Poker Tour, for as much good as this dreck will do.

    Q: How does this increase aggregate demand, numbskull who sits in the oval office?

    A: It doesn't. Don't waste your breath or my time.

    Teh Stupid. It runs for re-election.

    Once (none / 0) (#77)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 06:09:04 PM EST
    I saw the synopsis, I knew it wasn't going to pass because he's starting from a "revenue neutral" position of closing loopholes and raising taxes on the wealthy. The GOP isn't going to vote for that. It would have a better chance of passing if it was just pure spending. What is his problem?

    let's be real (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by CST on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 06:14:08 PM EST
    it would not have a better chance of passing if it was just pure spending.

    Nothing he proposes is gonna pass, for the simple reason that it's him proposing it.

    So if this is just election kabuki, might as well go for broke.


    I don't think just one pink slip is going to do it (none / 0) (#1)
    by BobTinKY on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 12:54:15 PM EST
    Reading that article (none / 0) (#2)
    by sj on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 01:01:41 PM EST
    made me redouble my appreciation for [most of] the commenters here.  

    This: (none / 0) (#5)
    by CST on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 01:16:25 PM EST
    "Republicans are largely opposed to the other triple-digit option Ways and Means described -- extending rebates for prescription drugs so that they apply to people who receive both Medicare and Medicaid. That policy would save the federal government $120 billion over 10 years, and Ways and Means Democrats said the pharmaceutical industry's objections are mostly baseless."

    Makes me so angry.  It's the one way to lower medicare/medicaid costs that actually helps people, and of course, they freak out because heaven forbid we cut into pharmaceutical prophits.  Grandma's retirement fund is fair game though.  Shared sacrifice my @ss.  They're not even being subtle about it.

    And as far as the other stuff goes - put me in the column of over my (and honestly I do think congressional democrats) dead body.  We need the house back yesterday.


    Trying to lower Medicare costs while (none / 0) (#22)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 02:45:54 PM EST
    retaining pharma, doctor, and other provider profit structures....

    no one else left but the sick people.


    Can it be that the fix is in? (none / 0) (#6)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 01:21:49 PM EST
    From David Dayen:

    One thing we do know: the lobbyist money will flow freely on the Super Committee.

    Like many federal contractors, General Electric has a lot riding on the work of a new congressional "supercommittee," which will help decide whether to impose massive cuts in defense and health-care spending.

    But the Connecticut-based conglomerate also has a potential advantage: A number of its lobbyists used to work for members of the committee, and will be able to lobby their former employers to limit the impact of any reductions in the weeks ahead.

    GE is hardly alone: Nearly 100 registered lobbyists used to work for members of the supercommittee, now representing defense companies, health-care conglomerates, Wall Street banks and others with a vested interest in the panel's outcome, according to a Washington Post analysis of disclosure data. Three Democrats and three Republicans on the panel also employ former industry lobbyists on their staffs.[...]

    "When the committee sits down to do its work, it's not like they're in an idealized, platonic debating committee," said Bill Allison, editorial director of the Sunlight Foundation, which is tracking ties between lobbyists and the panel. "They're going to have in mind the interests of those they are most familiar with, including their big donors and former advisers."

    Considering that committee members will not even be able to agree on the causes of the deficit, and therefore have no consistent road map for how to best reduce it, I think the smart money is on either a solution that protects the favored industries of committee members, or no solution at all. Indeed the latter looks likely, as committee member Max Baucus is already scheduling tax reform hearings on the Senate Finance Committee, well outside the Super Committee process. House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp is interested in using the normal committee process for that as well, and he's also a Super Committee member.

    We can hope that the smart money's right, but the special interests are everywhere, like cockroaches, and if they can't get what they want via the Super Committee, they will get it the way they always have.


    The Super Committee (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by cal1942 on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 03:30:38 PM EST
    made everything a lot easier for lobbyists and deflects "blame" from members of Congress.

    Unrepresented are the people and the good of the whole.

    A major screwing from the word go.


    It is looking like both Republicans (none / 0) (#12)
    by KeysDan on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 02:18:09 PM EST
    and Democrats agree on one thing: Cat Food II must not fail and the Congress must not fail to approve its work.  The default position must be avoided at all costs, not because social programs will be cut, but because military/security programs also must be cut--and, across the board in equal parts to achieve the $1.2- $1.5 trillion cuts.  In my view, we will be better off with the sequester of spending--so still rooting for Cat Food II failure.

    Americans divided on what to do (none / 0) (#3)
    by Politalkix on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 01:12:01 PM EST
    to reduce unemployment. link

    I do note that government spending... (none / 0) (#31)
    by Dadler on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 03:23:24 PM EST
    ...is still rated highest in positives and lowest in negatives in this particular poll.  I will take what little, perhaps naive, solace from that.  Ahem.

    Clueless (none / 0) (#9)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 02:05:30 PM EST
    Bernanke puzzled by weak consumer spending

    WASHINGTON (AP) -- Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said he's surprised by how cautious consumers have been in the two years since the recession officially ended. But the Fed chief offered no hints of any steps the Fed would take to boost the weak economy.

    Bernanke said Thursday that a number of factors are keeping consumers from spending more, including high unemployment, a temporary spike in energy prices, falling home prices and high debt burdens.

    "Even taking into account the many financial pressures they face, households seem exceptionally cautious," Bernanke said, according to a transcript of a speech his is giving in Minneapolis.

    Seriously? (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 02:22:35 PM EST
    How does someone this clueless get to be Fed chairman?

    I think it's time for all these "puzzled" nitwits to spend some time trying to live on an unemployment check, or on minimum wage, or working three part-time jobs with no benefits.

    That's just insulting.  And chances are, it's a sentiment Obama shares.


    What a phucking Moron! (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by NYShooter on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 03:00:11 PM EST
    Since I usually don't like using pejoratives in describing a person, please let me rephrase that: "What a Stooopid, phucking Moron!"

    "...doesn't know why consumers are reluctant..."

    LOL, oh my God. It's mid afternoon and I feel like a drink. The Chairman of the Federal Reserve, charged with the responsibility of maintaining the growth & stability of employment, "doesn't understand............"

    Someone, please turn out the lights


    I'd just like the opportunity (none / 0) (#74)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 06:02:21 PM EST
    to kick him in the a$$. That's where he pulls his ideas from.

    This is getting more Kafkaesque every day (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by NYShooter on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 06:57:37 PM EST
    The guy in charge of employment doesn't know about employment.

    Hey Jim, go ask a trucking company for a job driving a semi, but, oops, you can't drive a stick shift.

    But, in a macabre sort of way, Bernanke fits right into this administration. I mean, we've got a President who doesn't know he's got any powers at all.....except, of course, those the Republicans give him.


    These same people find it perfectly (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 03:07:13 PM EST
    plausible that businesses and banks will grind to a halt over "uncertainty".

    bunch of arrogant maroons.


    Okay, now he's p*ssing me off, too. (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Towanda on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 03:31:45 PM EST
    He ought to get out the precious Beltway, about the only acreage in this country that is doing fine, and he ought to do something as simple as going to an office supply store to see the lists of supplies posted for parents to purchase, parents who have no jobs -- and then see the teachers filling carts with those supplies for those kids, for which the teachers themselves will pay yet again, despite the cuts to their paychecks.

    He ought to go a grocery store and see the jobless parents and others trying to do with a few dollars and food stamps, if they got an appointment that week for food stamps despite the slashing of staffing in the public sector to serve the poor.

    He ought to . . . oh, I give up.  He ought to buy a clue, because at least he has money to do so.

    I thought that I never could be as angry again at these fools as I was in the '60s, and in the '70s in Watergate, but then I still had hope.

    I have no hope now.  None.  I will vote out every d*mn Repub AND Dem if they do not start yesterday to show that they have any clue as to what is happening in this country.

    We need to demand that they get out of Washington.  Move the White House administration, move the Congress to move somewhere else.  Now.


    The whole (5.00 / 4) (#35)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 03:40:58 PM EST
    country is ticked off. They are ticked off at Obama, they are ticket off at the Tea Party morons. They are ticked off at the wimpy Dems in the senate. Everybody is just sick of them all. Even my longstanding GOP rep is having conference calls in a deep red district because people are angry at him. I'm with you---vote every darn one of them out.

    Our leaders just don't know (none / 0) (#17)
    by KeysDan on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 02:25:16 PM EST
    what to do--call a meeting or call a cab.

    clueless is right (none / 0) (#25)
    by loveed on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 02:59:55 PM EST
    They have no money to spend.

    This (none / 0) (#94)
    by chrisvee on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 08:23:40 PM EST
    is either embarrassingly stupid or just downright evil.  What a tool.

    My take on the debate (none / 0) (#24)
    by loveed on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 02:56:17 PM EST
     The republicans decided to take Perry out. They exposed him for what he really is. This would not have happen without the approval of the party. I must apologize to GWB, Perry makes him look like a genius.
     Romney did well. He hit Perry hard. Both of them look like kids fighting in the school yard.
     Huntsman (I know I am bias) did well. He was above the fray. Very informed on the issues. Also he came off as a alternative to Romney.
     I wrote before the debate, it's down to 3 candidates. Perry, Romney,and Huntsman.
     Perry flamed out.
     40% of the republican will not vote for Romney, in the primaries. Because he's a flip/flopper.
     Huntsman record, his resume, foreign affairs experience, his family.Will make him an attractive alternative to Romney. Huntsman was never tarnished by the crazies (Obama did him a favor).
     Huntsman joined the race in June. He had no name recognition. As these debate go on(3 in 15days) he will get a lot of exposure.
     The last primaries in 08. Everyone thought it would be Hillary. It did not turn out that way.
    The democratic party pick Obama. The republican party will pick Huntsman.
     Going into Iowa there was 9 candidate. Remember Gravel,Sharpton,Kucinich,. The republicans are down to 6. After the first real debate. Look for more to leave before Oct.1st. Dems have there own crazies.
     Huntsman is a lot more conservative than he being giving credit for.
     The republican party wants to win.

    I think Huntsman is angling for 2016 (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by MKS on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 05:22:48 PM EST
    Otherwise, it is hard to see why he would whack his own party over global warming and evolution.

    He knows you have to run once before getting the Republcian nomination.

    Huntsman can be an "electable" candidate the Republicans turn to--only if the Tea Party version fails in 2012.

    In 2012, he would want Romney to be the nominee and lose.  Breaks the Mormon barrier.

    Only by first suffering a defeat would Republicans go back to the more counrty club style of years gone by.


    Oh (none / 0) (#69)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 05:49:00 PM EST
    they are going to have to suffer many election cycles of defeat before it sinks in that the evangelicals are ruining things. There's going to be an evangelical fundamentalist president I'm convinced in '12 if the GOP nominates one and the economy doesn't get better or in '16 if Obama gets reelected.

    The republican party is not (none / 0) (#95)
    by loveed on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 08:33:04 PM EST
    the democratic party.
     Each party have there crazies. The media gives them more power, than they have.

       Underneath we are all americans. Stop thinking there proud of Bush. They understand the harm he did to the country. This is why they shot down Perry so fast. Leadership is important.

       Obama is the choice of the democratic party.

      The republican wants to win at all cost. They will pick the best person who can beat Obama.


    you might think, loveed. They support candidates who share their religous or social values, despite the fact such candidate is not in their best interest on fiscal issues. They supported Bush because of his purported religious convictions. They remain supportive of Bush. The fact the country tanked under his watch was not his fault. It was the work of satan and the will of God.

    And BTW (none / 0) (#102)
    by easilydistracted on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 09:23:43 PM EST
    let me make it clear...those are not my views. I just happen to have some of those wackos as immediate family members.

    There a small part of the party (none / 0) (#103)
    by loveed on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 09:35:06 PM EST
    And yet currently in control (none / 0) (#105)
    by easilydistracted on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 09:55:01 PM EST
    Media makes them think there in control (none / 0) (#108)
    by loveed on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 11:22:42 PM EST
    This economy affects both dems. and repubs.

    This is his time (none / 0) (#75)
    by loveed on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 06:03:39 PM EST
    More likely (none / 0) (#76)
    by CoralGables on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 06:08:54 PM EST
    he won't be invited back for many more debates unless he can find his way above 1% in polling.

    The polls are not important (none / 0) (#83)
    by loveed on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 06:17:04 PM EST
     No one has voted. There will be 2 debates in the next 10 days. Then numerous more.
     He will be able to prove himself. He'll get more time to explain his plan for the country.
     Voting starts in January.

    Whaaa? (none / 0) (#85)
    by Towanda on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 07:03:53 PM EST
    The Polls are very important (none / 0) (#99)
    by CoralGables on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 09:11:38 PM EST
    At the GOP presidential debate Wednesday night, three candidates were not allowed to participate. They did not meet eligibility standards set by the hosts. To be eligible, a candidate had to have at least 4 percent in one of eight national polls on the GOP nomination since November 2010.

    Huntsman eked onto the stage this time.


    I don't get this mormon thing (none / 0) (#79)
    by loveed on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 06:10:20 PM EST
    His wife is Episcopalian. They raised thier children to respect both religions. The daughter just had a Episcopalian wedding.

    His wife and daughters (none / 0) (#81)
    by Towanda on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 06:14:25 PM EST
    are not running.

    Got it?


    got it (none / 0) (#89)
    by loveed on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 07:57:21 PM EST
    But they come as a family.

    That (none / 0) (#82)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 06:14:45 PM EST
    might explain his more moderate attitude toward gays then.

    He feels it's a civil right issue (none / 0) (#91)
    by loveed on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 08:15:17 PM EST
    He has 2 daughters from China and India (none / 0) (#87)
    by Politalkix on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 07:20:27 PM EST
    McCain had a daughter from Bangladesh. Just look up what Karl Rove & company did to McCain before the South Carolina primary in 2000.

    This is not Karl Rove party anymore (none / 0) (#90)
    by loveed on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 08:12:29 PM EST
     I could see these tactic being used if Perry is still in the race. But he won't be.

    Huntsman (none / 0) (#113)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 12:24:38 PM EST
    is not a standard issue Mormon.

    He did write a couple of years ago while Governor a very supportive open letter to the Episcopal Bishop who had taken leave so she could get treatment for alcoholism (which she had announced publicly)....

    I did not know he was that close to the Episcopal Church.

    He has said to the press that he is not all that traditionally Mormon in his actual beliefs, sounding more and more like a Udall.  Unlike Romney who is very tight with Mormon Church leaders in Salt Lake.

    And he does have the Kennedy hair going....

    He is not staunch enough of a conservative to get the nomination imo.  Utah did not know how far off the conservative reservation he really was when they elected him Governor....


    Well (none / 0) (#34)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 03:37:46 PM EST
    Huntsman worked for Obama which probably has huger negatives than being a flip/flopper from MA.

    I just don't see Huntsman getting it because he is polling in the single digits. I would think Ron Paul had a better chance of getting the nomination.

    I think Perry's candidacy went up in smoke last night. He has too much baggage to go anywhere. I think he was just a fantasy that Republican voters attached to because they didn't like any of the other candidates. Now they are going to have to face reality and pick someone else.

    When you have Peggy Noonan tearing you apart, you know there's no way Perry is going anywhere in the GOP.


    Parallel from 2008... (none / 0) (#42)
    by huzzlewhat on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 04:34:58 PM EST
    I think he was just a fantasy that Republican voters attached to because they didn't like any of the other candidates. Now they are going to have to face reality and pick someone else.

    I think/hope you're right. He's like the Fred Thompson of the 2012 field.


    It was a plus for Huntsman (none / 0) (#56)
    by loveed on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 05:21:09 PM EST
    Being Obama's ambassador.

     I want you to look at this in a different way.

     1. Huntsman was in China- not connected to the crazies. All the stupid things the Repubs. have done over the last 3yrs. he's not tainted by it.
    His resume would impress any hard conservative. He a blank slate with an outstanding record.

     2. He is a lot more conservative, than he's been given credit for. He believes in the right to life, and has sign laws(except for the life of the mother,rape and incest). His missionary work.
    2 sons at the navel academy. Instituted a flat tax. Best state for business, and jobs. worked in the private sectors. Cut taxes.

     3. He actually have a tax plan. Endorsed by the Wall Street Journal.

     4. he tells the truth, and stand by his decision.

     5. His record is better than Romney.

     I could go on.
     The republican party want to win, but after GWB & Obama. They want someone who's knows what there doing.


    I'm talking (none / 0) (#67)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 05:41:51 PM EST
    about the GOP primary voters. I would think that working for Obama is a net negative for them. As far as general election, I doubt anyone would really care.

    Gop voters (none / 0) (#73)
    by loveed on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 06:00:11 PM EST
     Have only heard about the moderate side of Huntsman, wait til they learn about his conservative side.
     He was Ambassador to china. He knows the Chinese. How much money do we owe them? Also this helps with his foreign affairs.
     The election season has just begun. They will learn more about him. And realize he is one of the best candidate they have had in a long time.
     The crazies get a lot of attention, but there just a fraction of the party.

     The republicans want to win. They will pick the right one.


    I liked the part in the debate (none / 0) (#98)
    by NYShooter on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 08:57:23 PM EST
    When Huntsman said (paraphrasing) that one of the first things he'd do as President would be to go to China and speak directly to the Chinese people, in Chinese, about all the ways our two countries could work together for the betterment of all.

    Very impressive.


    Very funny (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by Politalkix on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 10:13:04 PM EST
    Let me tell ya something....the Chinese can get more ruthless in negotiations than Republicans can ever hope to be :-).
    The day may come when the part of the lefty blogosphere that hated Obama started geting nostalgic for the days when a Democratic President made bipartisan deals with Republicans instead of a Republican President making bipartisan deals with the Chinese for the "betterment of all". :-)

    Kind of (none / 0) (#107)
    by NYShooter on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 10:29:43 PM EST
    a disjointed analogy, but, regardless, I'd be interested to hear more about your thoughts as to future Republican/Chinese negotiations.

    As you may, or may not, have read some of my posts where I refer to my career as chief negotiator for a large corporation, the topic, naturally, interests me.


    I think he's impressive to (none / 0) (#104)
    by loveed on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 09:47:16 PM EST
     We have to stop judging people by parties.
     We know everything we need to know about Obama.
     Take sometime to read up on him. He is the most qualified person running.

     Plus he like and independent, hated by the far sides of both parties.


    I read a lot of republicans sites (none / 0) (#109)
    by loveed on Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 12:14:46 AM EST
    How else can you learn what there thinking.
    Here's a link to a repub. site.
    Read there take on huntsman at the debate. Also read the comment at the bottom. There attitude is chttp://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/for-huntsman-a-night-to-shine-20110907?mrefid=mostViewedhang ing toward Huntsman.

    Here is the Huntsman problem (none / 0) (#110)
    by CoralGables on Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 01:37:59 AM EST
    from Politico

    ...Jon Huntsman, lagging in the polls and apparently low on money, is again shuffling his organization and moving resources from Florida to New Hampshire.

    Jim McCray and Monica Notzon, two Washington-based fundraising consultants for Huntsman, are parting ways with the campaign, according to GOP sources....

    This source said Huntsman is "running on fumes" and that the candidate had to put $500,000 of his money into the campaign recently to help make payroll.


    There will always be staff changes (none / 0) (#112)
    by loveed on Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 08:35:55 AM EST
     He's had several staff changes. Remember he did not put this group together. Being ambassador, he could not organize his campaign until after April 30,2011.
      He said he would put up the start up money. At the end of June his campaign had 4mil.
      Did you know that he had campaign headquarters in Florida & South Carolina?

     All this tell me is the media is paying closer attention to his campaign.


    actually, I was responding to Politalkix (none / 0) (#111)
    by NYShooter on Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 01:39:10 AM EST
    but I read the link you provided. thanks, very interesting.

    Peggy dissed McCain & Palin too (none / 0) (#61)
    by MKS on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 05:28:12 PM EST
    She is changing....imo...no longer a good barometer of Republican grass roots thought.

    Arianna Huffington used to be a Republican--ran her husband's campaign against Difi in '94.


    Well (none / 0) (#68)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 05:45:04 PM EST
    IIRC it was mostly Palin that she was railing against.

    I still don't see Perry getting the nom. He was nothing short of a disaster last night. Unscientific gauge would be my facebook Perry supporters who seemed demoralized. I don't think that they realized what he has done all these years until last night.

    And all the evangelicals are heavily against that cancer shot for girls and he signed an executive order mandating all 12 year old girls get the shot. That one thing is enough to send him back to Texas in a New York minute.


    Or to Jail (none / 0) (#100)
    by loveed on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 09:21:36 PM EST
    maybe kickback are legal in Texas, I doubt it.

    Welcome NFL 2011 (none / 0) (#41)
    by ding7777 on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 04:30:34 PM EST
    If you had to rename "football" to something more accurately describing the game, what would you call it?

    Brain pong. (5.00 / 3) (#43)
    by observed on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 04:38:55 PM EST
    Drunkfest (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by Towanda on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 04:42:21 PM EST
    in the stands and parking lots, drugfest on the field.

    black hole (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by CST on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 04:47:40 PM EST
    at least this is what I imagine getting sucked into a black hole would feel like.

    I know it's not really good for me, might tear my insides apart, but I just can't pull myself away from it.


    Go Out In a Blaze of Glory Chait (none / 0) (#49)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 04:55:33 PM EST
    He'll be replaced by another, equally (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by observed on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 04:59:55 PM EST
    vapid moron. There's really no shortage of people like Chait.
    If you dumbed down your commentary a bit, you might even qualify.

    meh (none / 0) (#53)
    by CST on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 05:02:31 PM EST
    honestly, I could really care less about all the personality wars on the left.

    This is a personal response to a personal response... so?

    I will say his assertian that Olympia Snowe would lose her seat to someone in the tea party is a bit rich.  The problem with the Olympia Snowes of the world is not that the tea party might kick them out (not in Maine), it's that no one is going to kick them out, not the tea party, not the democrats, not anyone.  So it really doesn't matter how you try to twist their arms, they are gonna do what they are gonna do.

    All that aside, I think reconcilliation on BUDGET matters ($$$$$) was the way to go.  Obama's biggest failure has been on economic issues (IMO).  That's the one area where he really didn't need republicans but insisted on using them anyway.


    How (none / 0) (#55)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 05:17:28 PM EST
    did he not need the GOP on economic issues?

    because he could have (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by CST on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 05:28:06 PM EST
    used reconciliation.

    Or threatened something like it (5.00 / 3) (#63)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 05:33:09 PM EST
    In January of 2009 he had huge popularity, reasonably large majorities, and an unambiguous crisis to solve.

    True (none / 0) (#64)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 05:33:19 PM EST
    However, imagine the world where the GOP went wild with budget reconciliation under President Perry.

    There is a reason that presidents do not go for that option lightly.  


    All of this presupposes (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 05:36:50 PM EST
    that he was prepared to ask for what was necessary to address the crisis in the first place. The record shows that he started low and went down from there.

    We've been around in circles about this, but it's clear to me that the promise of this Administration was significantly diminished with the first "offer" for the recovery act.


    except they do (none / 0) (#65)
    by CST on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 05:35:38 PM EST
    on budget matters, regularly.  I can imagine, because Bush did it, so did Clinton.

    You do it so you implement policy that works and people don't vote for President Perry.


    to put it another way (none / 0) (#70)
    by CST on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 05:54:30 PM EST
    can you picture any scenario where a President Perry would refrain from doing something, because a President Obama wouldn't do it?

    I sure can't.


    Haven't read that much drivel (none / 0) (#54)
    by jbindc on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 05:04:36 PM EST
    And self congratulation in well.... A long time.