New Jobless Claims: 428K

Bad news:

Applications for unemployment benefits climbed to 428,000 in the week ended Sept. 10 from an upwardly revised 417,000 the prior week, the Labor Department said.

Exacerbating the problem is the rise in headline inflation:

The Labor Department said its Consumer Price Index increased 0.4 percent last month, after rising 0.5 percent in July. The reading was higher than the 0.2 percent rise expected, with food prices posting their biggest gain since March. Gasoline prices climbed 1.9 percent after jumping 4.7 percent the prior month. Food prices rose 0.5 percent after increasing 0.4 percent in July.

This is bad because the folks that want Austerity Now! get to yell Inflation! The reality is that core inflation is 2% due to slack demand. But energy and food prices go up more because demand for these items is inelastic. This is a toxic brew of economic news. Things are looking bleaker.

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    the new poverty statistics (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by desmoinesdem on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 08:44:42 AM EST
    from the Census Bureau are terrifying, especially when you consider that poverty will probably continue to rise until about a year after unemployment starts falling (which could be well into the future).

    Also to consider... (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 09:35:19 AM EST
    the poverty line is something like 22k for a family of four.  A ridiculously low income threshold...depending on where in the country you reside, the line could easily be set at 32k or more.

    Let's face it, kdog, (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 09:57:10 AM EST
    they don't want to make the poverty stats sound any worse, so they set the poverty line very low.  I'd like to see our congresspeople try to live on $22,000/year.  They do the same with the "official" unemployment rate- it doesn't measure long-term discouraged workers, the underemployed, part-time workers who would like to work full-time but cannot find full-time work.  Why let people know how bad it really is, since they already think it's bad enough?  

    I hear ya... (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 10:18:44 AM EST
    Granted I have expensive habits to go with simple tastes, but even if I quit smoking I don't think I could swing it on 22k a year net, definitely not gross.  

    Lies, damn lies, and statistics.


    As a single person, kdog, you (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by caseyOR on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 02:25:43 PM EST
    would have to live on $11,000/year. That $22,000 figure is for a family of four.

    Comedic... (none / 0) (#46)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 02:46:04 PM EST
    why does no one in the media talk about how ridiculous to the point of useless the levels are?  I've caught a few articles about the alarming poverty stats, all mentioned the level, but every writer left out the "lol".  

    Never mind, look, over there, Sarah Palin sniffs blow off oil drums! :)

    BTW kids, never sniff blow off oil drums, ya could get some rust up your beak and need to get a painful tetanus shot.


    Will you be reading McGinniss' book? (none / 0) (#47)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 02:52:15 PM EST
    And:  you forgot about all the references to "extreme poverty," apparently a subset.  

    Hell no... (none / 0) (#50)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 03:12:02 PM EST
    I ain't reading it, but I must shamefully admit I'm taking perverse pleasure in the wisecracks from the NBA community.

    Aw, quit your griping guys (none / 0) (#52)
    by NYShooter on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 06:38:24 PM EST
    Its all good; the stock market rose 186 points today

    Just think of all your capital gains!


    Also (5.00 / 0) (#20)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 10:48:07 AM EST
    They also keep the poverty line low because qualifying for certain benefits is dependent upon your percentage of the poverty line....for instance, Obamacare provides no health insurance "subsidies" for those making over 400% of the poverty line.

    Good point... (none / 0) (#22)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 11:05:58 AM EST
    I'll never forget when I applied for Medicaid as a broked*ck college kid with a bum leg working full time, man said I wasn't broked*ck enough.  Coulda fooled me!

    Things are bleak allright... (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 08:56:07 AM EST
    and those immune from the bleakness are gonna take full advantage of the situation, by hell or high water!

    Poverty is up, pay is down, bills are up, morale is down...and dare you complain the refrain is "be glad you have a job."  

    Since I'm one of those "be glad you have a job!"'s, I talk to other "be glad you have a job!" colleagues all day long...I don't think morale and spirits have ever been lower amongst those who should be "glad".


    One in five (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 09:58:47 AM EST
    children in this country are living in poverty.  One in five.  That's something that everyone in this country should be ashamed of.

    Per UNICEF (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by smott on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 11:03:02 AM EST
    The US is now 22nd of 23 rich countries measured for CHild Poverty, only Mexico is worse.

    Sweden tops everyone with an impressive 2.6%.

    US and MExico bring up the rear with 22.4 and 26.2 respectively.

    Basically those socialist swedes, danes, finns, kicking our arse.


    Page 6


    This (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 11:20:54 AM EST
    just makes me want to cry.  We're bad statistically on child poverty, bad on global measures of overall health care, bad on the growing disparity between the rich and the poor.  We are rapidly plunging out of First World and approaching Second World status.  When will the majority of the people in this country begin to wake the f*ck up and start trying to take their country back?

    Don't forget infant mortality (5.00 / 0) (#29)
    by smott on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 11:28:04 AM EST
    US now 34th, between Cuba and Malta.

    6.81 per 1,000 live births.

    Singapore and Iceland tops with 1.92, 2.07.


    Yes (none / 0) (#32)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 11:59:31 AM EST
    Very, very sad, isn't it?

    I think it is time to buy ravioli (none / 0) (#4)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 08:58:45 AM EST
    Come on up (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 10:26:29 AM EST
    to Maryland.  I've been canning and freezing garden produce all summer.  And there's also lots of venison in the freezer.  I think we can do better than canned ravioli.   ;-)

    Be careful Z... (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 11:08:28 AM EST
    if things stay on course, the Republic of Zorba might have many a refugee at her borders looking for food and shelter.

    I've got a huge barn, Dog (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 11:14:54 AM EST
    Plus other farm buildings.  And if people are willing to help garden, hunt, fish, cook, and clean up- I think we can handle a few (compatible) refugees.  (I'm not entirely kidding, here.  If things really go south, there are more than a few friends and relatives we might have to take in.)

    Only half-kidding myself... (none / 0) (#27)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 11:26:39 AM EST
    when I say I have scoped out where the massive local food warehouses that supply supermarkets are...first stop on Sh*t Meet Fan day before we head for the hills!  Also only half-kidding when I say I've given serious thought to reversing my anti-gun ownership stance.

    I might not have a wife and kids of me own, but the McArab clan is large, and nobody goes hungry on my watch.  

    I really hope we figure out a way to prosper and provide a chance for all to prosper in the coming century, but with this government and framework I just can't see it happening.


    Well, as I've said before (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 11:57:33 AM EST
    We're armed.  Hunting-type long guns.  Mr. Z. used to hunt when he was younger, and he taught me how to use them (and we taught our kids, when they got old enough, including lots of lessons on gun safety).  Realistically, I would not live up here way in the boonies if we were not armed and prepared to use those arms- the police response time is at least a half hour or more, so we cannot depend upon them to protect us, if it comes to that.  Don't get me wrong- I'm not some kind of an NRA nut.  And I don't have any problem with registering hand guns, and requiring people to take a safety course and a background check before they can buy one.  And there is no reason for individuals to own an assault-type weapon.  But a shot gun can certainly be effective against a home invader who means you harm.

    Totally agree... (none / 0) (#33)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 12:00:02 PM EST
    although I abhor guns personally, they give me the creeps...I am a staunch 2nd Amendment guy.  An inalienable right it most surely is.

    Come on down (none / 0) (#34)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 12:08:22 PM EST
    to Maryland, and I'll give you some lessons on how to use a shotgun (or rifle) safely, kdog.  They really shouldn't give you the creeps- they're a tool, like any other tool.  Anything, in the wrong hands, can be misused.  You can Google far more dangerous stuff than shotguns and rifles.

    Tool of oppression by evil law enforcement. (5.00 / 0) (#48)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 02:53:21 PM EST

    LOL! (none / 0) (#49)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 02:59:37 PM EST

    Always ahead of the times... (none / 0) (#6)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 09:32:12 AM EST
    I should get in on the grift, I'd be good at it...I've had an apocalypse Chef Boyardee cache for years.  Damn conscience o' mine, a blessing and a curse:)

    When the Mad Max times come, I'll be a wealthy ravioli man, and I like to share...so we got that going for us.  


    I never thought I would live to see this (none / 0) (#10)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 09:42:35 AM EST
    NEVER!  They promised us they would never do this to us again, and then they did.

    Austerity = fewer jobs (5.00 / 0) (#5)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 09:28:32 AM EST
    Did they really expect to cut the budget by nearly a trillion in the debt ceiling deal (already - before the super committee gets done with us) and not lose jobs?

    I don't understand these people. Don't even the rich want to live in a decent world?

    We used to ask my Mom why she had to (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 09:39:27 AM EST
    pay taxes to support public schools when she was also paying tuition to send us to Catholic school - and working two jobs to do so. She'd say it was because she wanted to live in a world where people were educated. I'm sure it is the same thing her father, an uneducated man who worked nights conducting streetcars in Chicago to send his 4 daughters to Catholic school, told her when she asked him the same question.

    Now the attitude is - 'let me shield myself from the poor and uneducated and I don't have to care.'


    The saddest thing (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 09:49:59 AM EST
    It was a bunch of "educated" people that did this to all of us, people like Larry Summers, Greenspan, Rubin.  They started believing their own bull$hit, and it is all they have to hang onto now along with all of their credentials and they fuel the insanity and the lack of real solutions being argued for and applied as much as the tea party does.  In fact, these colossal geniuses have used the tea party for a sort of cover.  They want some austerity too, if they could just fix the "balance sheet" the confidence fairy would magically iron all this corruption and loss of fundamental market principles out.

    It is penny wise pound foolish... (5.00 / 0) (#15)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 10:12:16 AM EST
    never mind if they care how the world looks outside the gated community, where do they think the wealth comes from, divine right?

    It comes from working people who buy what they're shilling, working people getting hosed in the markets so their shorts come in...when working people got nothing left, thats called killing your golden goose.


    You know, for all his faults (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 10:24:19 AM EST
    (and there were many), Henry Ford ticked off the other factory owners at the time by paying his workers more than they did.  He said that he wanted his workers to be able to afford to buy Ford cars.  Imagine that!  Unfortunately, in today's world, if most of the current business owners can't get Americans to buy their products (because Americans have no money), they can always sell their stuff to China, or elsewhere overseas.  Doesn't work for every product, but it works for a lot of them.

    Smart dude... (5.00 / 0) (#19)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 10:30:57 AM EST
    I like old man Ford's take on the banking system...to paraphrase, if we understood how it really worked we'd f*ckin' riot.

    Imagine what he'd say... (5.00 / 0) (#28)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 11:27:52 AM EST
    about credit default swaps...ya hadn't seen nuthin' Mr. Ford!

    These job losses aren't (none / 0) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 09:40:12 AM EST
    even the job losses due to the exercise of the proposed austerity.  I suppose you could say these are the job losses due to the lack of real job creating stimulus action taken while they've all stood around and debated and proposed what austerity to exercise.  If that fact doesn't scare the $hit out of them nothing will.  And let's face it, with the tea party nothing will scare the $hit out of them to the point that they would embrace creating a new WPA.  They have to create jobs, they must go WPA now and there are no other solutions now other than riding this out, another true blue Great Depression.  

    All true (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 09:54:58 AM EST
    I don't know what is going to happen. I had hoped against my gut that we had hit bottom, but we aren't even near there yet.

    I am extremely confident that whatever (5.00 / 3) (#26)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 11:21:12 AM EST
    decisions are made as the economy inevitably continues to worsen will be the wrong ones, as Deficit Hysteria is alive and well, and being driven not only by Republicans, but by a significant number of Congressional Democrats and by the president.

    In fact, I see where there is going to be a press conference today by 30 Democratic and Republican members of Congress,

    ...calling on the Super Committee to "go big" on deficit reduction. This Gang of 30 could come up with their own plan. If it includes cuts to the safety net, I'm sure you'll hear the refrain "even President Obama believes..." The difference between the parties on this is gone in the minds of the public.

    In further fact, Obama shouts with much enthusiasm, that "the best part" of his jobs bill is the fact that it's "all paid for!"  That's a big selling point for him, when what he ought to be selling is how his bill will put people back to work - and not just back to work for companies that get the benefit of their labor while they continue to collect unemployment benefits, and have no guarantee of permanent employment or benefits or anything once their time is up.  "Georgia Works" and "Wisconsin Works" didn't really, um, work, but we live in a time, apparently, when the big brains making the decisions have deliberately lost the bag of solutions that have been shown to work (because they aren't going to further enrich their BFF's), and keep pulling old, tired, failed, proposals out of their a$$es, and expecting us to believe that "this time" they will work.

    Republicans are reacting in knee-jerk fashion to a bill that has fake revenue increases in it ("fake" because the bill also says that if the Super Committee can find enough things to cut to equal what the jobs bill will cost, revenue increases in the bill are nullified), and a slew of Dems are reacting to it like Republicans, and it's kind of hard to run against the economic policies of the Bush years when the economic policies of the Obama years are awfully - and I do mean "awfully" in the truest sense of that word - similar: tax cuts and more tax cuts that didn't create jobs then, and aren't and won't create them now.

    As bad as I thought the Bush years were, it's starting to feel like they were only hell's reception room, and Obama is taking us deeper into some really bad times.

    Oh, wait - Obama inherited this mess, it isn't his fault, he can't really do anything about it and - is there a new excuse this week I'm not aware of?  

    Why do I keep (none / 0) (#30)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 11:45:09 AM EST
    hearing this in my head?  Of course, Americans are not the French.  

    As (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:48:07 PM EST
    As Atrios would say:

    428K luckie duckies ;-)

    Yglesias (2.00 / 1) (#35)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 12:08:35 PM EST

    "As of a month ago, people calling on the president to propose a bold new jobs plan and advocate for it loudly were "Obama critics" and those of us saying this wouldn't work were "Obama apologists." Well, last week he gave the big speech, the White House comms shop keeps pushing out jobs plan content, the party leaders in House and Senate are backing the bill, they've done some barnstorming in various congressional districts, and critics are still depressed and sarcastic . . . This, right before our eyes, is a living, breathing example of why presidential speechmaking doesn't do the things people say it does. It doesn't even have the intended impact on its intended audience! Is Atrios fired up and ready to go? Prepared to stop writing sarcastic, depressed, and dismissive blog posts and instead go hard against the president's critics, boosting the morale of the president's audience? No, he's sarcastic, depressed, and dismissive because the objective situation is depressing and everyone knows the jobs plan won't pass."

    Also (none / 0) (#36)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 12:22:03 PM EST
    I'd like to get on the record the feedback Obama is getting on a plan surely too small to completely correct the problem:

    - "Terrible," Sen. Jim Webb (D-Va.) told POLITICO when asked about the president's ideas for how to pay for the $450 billion price tag. "We shouldn't increase taxes on ordinary income. ... There are other ways to get there."

    • "That offset is not going to fly, and he should know that," said Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu from the energy-producing Louisiana, referring to Obama's elimination of oil and gas subsidies. "Maybe it's just for his election, which I hope isn't the case."

    • "I think the best jobs bill that can be passed is a comprehensive long-term deficit-reduction plan," said Sen. Tom Carper (D-Del.), discussing proposals to slash the debt by $4 trillion by overhauling entitlement programs and raising revenue through tax reforms. "That's better than everything else the president is talking about -- combined."

    Last time around, everyone remembered that the plan wasn't big enough but forgot that the dems in the senate couldn't be forced to support something bigger.  Want to get this kind of thing on the record now so when we are looking back, it's clear why Obama's power to effect the change demanded of him are so limited.

    I love Yglesias, but many here don't so here is TNC at the Atlantic, who has been a pretty sharp critic of Obama over the past year, hitting the stage I hit during the Deal in 2009.

    If we are upset that Obama can't get a good deal passed, we should be spending 100% of our time going after and working to eliminate those who stand in the way.

    TNC's answer is the one I have:

    "People who talk of primarying Obama need to pick smaller targets--and thus elicit bigger results.  . . It's comforting to believe in a narrative of liberal "betrayal," to argue that the game is rigged in such a way that the Hippie-punchers always win. It's also pretty cynical."

    Talk of primarying Obama (none / 0) (#38)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 12:23:52 PM EST
    is NEVER seen here.

    The straw you bring is ridiculous.


    Response (none / 0) (#39)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 12:42:05 PM EST
    If you search "primary obama" you will find that NYShooter, SJ, Observed, Anne and a host of others are advocating for a primary challenger for Obama and are not made out of hay, straw or any other grass-like product.

    However, you have come out clearly and said that despite your disagreements with him, you do not believe we should primary him or cast a protest vote. No question.

    My point: Even Krugman came out in support of the proposed jobs plan. It's not perfect but it is decent.

    This is the part where every gun should be firing at the GOP.  They'd have every bit of venom aimed at dems if the situation was reversed.

    Liberal anger can be a powerful force but we need to start focusing the force in the right direction. Go to the Weekly Standard and all of the comments today talk about how horrible the dems are.

    I wish we were like that.


    Even I (none / 0) (#42)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 12:55:01 PM EST
    came out in support of it.

    Even I thought the President's speech was great.

    Even I think that they are doing it the right way on the politics now.

    Again, Unless you avoid the "some say" approach, I assume you are responding to me in my posts.


    That's just ridiculous (none / 0) (#37)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 12:23:00 PM EST
    Atrios is the guinea pig for whether something is effective politically?

    That is one of the dumbest posts I have ever read.


    Atrios (none / 0) (#40)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 12:45:36 PM EST
    Is symptomatic of a certain type of mentality that our opponents do not have.

    I think you missed the fundamental point of what TNC and Yglesias are saying.


    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 12:53:20 PM EST
    A symptom of a certain type of mentality is how we do "political strategery" now? I thought the better idea was to see if something will help you win an election.

    Political speeches, especially Presidential speeches can and do help.

    The problem is precisely that I get Yglesias' point and it is a ludicrous one from the standpoint of political strategy.

    Let me give you an example - I understand the impulse of trying to seem bipartisan. And indeed, sometimes it is good politics.

    But I personally will NEVER like it.

    I can separate my personal preferences from my political analysis.

    It seems that you, Yglesias and TNC can't.


    Gee I can't think of one time in recent (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 02:19:45 PM EST
    history that any major Republican politician, let alone a Republican president, has said that Democrats and/or liberals and their POV is as American as apple pie. Can't remember a Republican president publicly and continually ridiculing elements of their own base and comparing them to extreme elements of the so called far left.

    Evidently the need to legitimize the Republican Party, their agenda and the Tea Party while making a sport of punching DFHs is symptomatic of a certain type of mentality by Obama and his administration  that our opponents do not have.    


    You link and excerpt that approvingly? (none / 0) (#51)
    by Romberry on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 05:29:46 PM EST
    That's whole screed is pretty idiotic. Yglesias wants to make a general case out of isolation. No one anywhere thinks a single speech or even a few weeks of pushing will make any substantive difference. The argument is that the bully pulpit must be used and the message delivered repeatedly, time after time after time, and that when done long enough and forcefully enough, eventually the debate begins to shift and traction is gained. It's over time, not overnight.

    Yglesias is not stupid, so I have to believe he is either willfully obtuse or otherwise disingenuous here. And you're right there with him, approvingly. And that's pretty damn sad.


    I think inflation (none / 0) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 08:54:09 AM EST
    is due to slack demand alongside quantitative easing.  They feed the infrastructure and the infrastructure doesn't restructure, lower prices, they didn't have to to survive until....maybe now.

    But any model that is embraced by Geithner and those who support him will not condone any sort of deflation because that will blow up securitization and pensions and everything else having to do with what they turned investing into.

    I don't know what the answer is now.  They refused to deal with the insolvency, everything was too big to fail so they created new bookkeeping methods, printed money, and saved the infrastructure that will now eat us alive until it all explodes.

    I don't know what to do when you have unemployment increasing in this quarter at this time of year.  What is winter going to look like?  We are truly phucked.