Monday Afternoon Open Thread

In other news, How Obama Wants to Pay for His Debt Plan.

The military appeals court at Guantanamo has upheld a life sentence for Osama bin Laden's media director, Yemeni Ali Hamza al Bahlul, age 41. The 139 page opinion takes substantial liberties with the meaning of conspiracy.

Copyright troll Righthaven is about to go down for the count. It told a federal judge it is considering filing bankruptcy after being ordered to pay $34,000 in legal fees to a blog commenter it sued for reposting a LV Review Journal article.

The Denver Post and 50 other papers who are part of the Media News Group that signed with Righthaven are terminating their relationship . The new chief executive of MediaNews Group, John Paton, who replaced Dean Singleton last week, "said it was “a dumb idea” to sign in the first place."

Paton said if he was MediaNews’ chief a year ago, he likely never would have signed on with Righthaven, which hoped to fix the print media’s financial ills by suing bloggers and website owners for reposting snippets or entire copyrighted articles. Terms of the Righthaven-MediaNews deal grant each side a 50-percent stake in settlements and verdicts.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    tragic about Righthaven. no doubt (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by cpinva on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 03:49:58 PM EST
    they'll resurface in some other guise, the monsters always do.

    as far as i'm concerned, the military tribunals have no legitimacy whatever, and anything they do, with regards to those held at gitmo is a fraud perpetrated on both the accused, and the US. shame on obama for allowing this farce to continue.

    just another reason to reconsider my vote, come 2012.

    Funny, the stock market was (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by MO Blue on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 04:20:30 PM EST
    down quite a bit earlier today. News came out that Obama is proposing to raise taxes to pay for jobs and now the market is up. Not sure that there is any correlation between the two events but the news that Obama wants raise taxes definitely hasn't sent the market into a tailspin.

    From what I read the bounce in the stock (none / 0) (#48)
    by vml68 on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 10:42:10 PM EST
    market was due to a rumor that a sovereign wealth fund from China was talking with Italy about a bond purchase.

    Note to self (none / 0) (#78)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 09:48:27 AM EST
    Refrain from making WAGS (wild a$$ guesses).

    LOL. The only reason I am even (none / 0) (#88)
    by vml68 on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 10:39:14 AM EST
    aware of this is because I do a bit of trading and so have to try and keep up with all the news/rumors to try and figure out all the crazy market swings.

    Better be careful (none / 0) (#116)
    by CoralGables on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 01:50:07 PM EST
    saying Wags. You'll have TL overrun by the british soccer crowd checking it out for photos.

    Oh, oh. (none / 0) (#117)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:13:04 PM EST
    I'm in trouble now. ;o)

    A very good post by Krugman re: 9/11 (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by lentinel on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 04:22:20 PM EST
    The Years of Shame

    For those who can't get the Times online anymore, I am printing it below....

    The Years of Shame
    Is it just me, or are the 9/11 commemorations oddly subdued?

    Actually, I don't think it's me, and it's not really that odd.

    What happened after 9/11 -- and I think even people on the right know this, whether they admit it or not -- was deeply shameful. The atrocity should have been a unifying event, but instead it became a wedge issue. Fake heroes like Bernie Kerik, Rudy Giuliani, and, yes, George W. Bush raced to cash in on the horror. And then the attack was used to justify an unrelated war the neocons wanted to fight, for all the wrong reasons.

    A lot of other people behaved badly. How many of our professional pundits -- people who should have understood very well what was happening -- took the easy way out, turning a blind eye to the corruption and lending their support to the hijacking of the atrocity?

    The memory of 9/11 has been irrevocably poisoned; it has become an occasion for shame. And in its heart, the nation knows it.

    Today is my last day of being (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by observed on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 04:29:47 PM EST
    "39"; tomorrow I'll be 50.
    I'm still waiting for my visa.  More or less, things are on schedule though.

    Happy Birthday! (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 06:35:02 AM EST
    It's the 20th anniversary of your 30th birthday - that doesn't sound so bad, does it?  Assuming your 30th was memorable in a good way, that is!

    Looks like this is going to be a remarkable year for you - new job, new country, new a-lot-of-things.  I have a feeling this time next year, you'll be checking to make sure it really has been a whole year.

    The best news is that I think if the year goes really, really fast, you might only have to claim to be another half-year older...lol.

    Hope it's a great day!


    Thanks! And guess what? I just got word (none / 0) (#67)
    by observed on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 09:04:17 AM EST
    that my visa was approved. I didn't have to enter this decade without a visa---whew!

    Will the AARP find you in Kazakstan? (5.00 / 0) (#71)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 09:21:44 AM EST
    Happy Birthday!

    They'll have a better chance of finding me than (none / 0) (#74)
    by observed on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 09:31:31 AM EST

    Wrong. (none / 0) (#27)
    by easilydistracted on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 06:43:09 PM EST
    49 is good for at least a decade.

    Happy Birthday.


    Thanks! (none / 0) (#34)
    by observed on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 07:12:46 PM EST
    you need a visa to be 50? i had no idea! (none / 0) (#44)
    by cpinva on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 10:31:46 PM EST
    when did this start, and does this mean that if i don't have one, i am officially still 49? i'm thinking i kind of like the whole concept. :)

    hahah.. (none / 0) (#46)
    by observed on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 10:34:06 PM EST
    I like your thinking.
    You could help team O interpret poll numbers any day!

    So today is the day (none / 0) (#62)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 07:38:06 AM EST
    Happy Birthday. Have a great day and and an even better year.

    Ah, to be young enough for great adventures. ;o)


    Or, (none / 0) (#63)
    by BBQinDenver on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 07:45:04 AM EST
    you can think of yourself as having as much fun as five 10 year-olds.  Fifty is a great year. (I can almost remember that long ago...) Best Wishes.

    Things that really (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by CST on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 05:16:44 PM EST
    grind my gears:

    FATAL ERROR unhandled exception 903486y7349puith sldkfjsae89rq3-4[

    I hate computers.


    You'd think a program that has a specific "print to pdf" setting would be able to handle it without a FATAL ERROR.

    Print? (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 10:54:06 AM EST
    I'd be happy to be able to download and save a damn pdf file of some installation instructions without some error message in hieroglyphics spitting in my eye...I double plus hate computers.

    If mine keeps it up I'm gonna show it what a fatal error really is!


    things that really (none / 0) (#22)
    by CST on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 05:40:23 PM EST
    grind my gears 2.0:

    The solution to all this was renaming a file.



    It's always when you're pressed for time, no? (none / 0) (#25)
    by andgarden on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 05:53:57 PM EST
    How I wish this was true now (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by MO Blue on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 06:02:07 PM EST
    Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. link

    NSA `enemies list' includes us (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 09:37:07 PM EST
    'Despite his hollow campaign protests, President Barack Obama has greatly expanded what President George W. Bush began.'

    'So much intercepted information is now being collected from "enemies" at home and abroad that, in order to store it all, the agency last year began constructing the ultimate monument to eavesdropping, a gargantuan data storage center capable of eventually holding more than a yottabyte of data, 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 pages of text.'

    "That capability at any time could be turned around on the American people and no American would have any privacy left, such [is] the capability to monitor everything: telephone conversations, telegrams, it doesn't matter.  There would be no place to hide. If this government ever became a tyrant, if a dictator ever took charge in this country, the technological capacity that the intelligence community has given the government could enable it to impose total tyranny, and there would be no way to fight back because the most careful effort to combine together in resistance to the government, no matter how privately it was done, is within the reach of the government to know. Such is the capability of this technology."
    - Senator Frank Church, 1975

     James Bamford, Politico,

    Ron Paul is barking mad,but (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by observed on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 03:24:11 AM EST
    in an interesting way.
    He's so wed to his position that free market (plus charity) solves everything, that he argues that removing restrictions on alternative medicine will do the trick.
    Yes,  just abolish the FDA completely  while you're at it.

    And yes, he thinks a person who doesn't get insurance should die if they need medical care.
    He doesn't say it directly, but the implication is unmistakeable.

    YABSCR That's "yet another bat shiit crazy republican"

    The crazy TP crowd (none / 0) (#61)
    by Yman on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 06:55:42 AM EST
    What was just as shocking was the reaction of the audience.  They were literally cheering the idea of letting the man die.

    BTW - Ron Paul then tried to lightly backpedal away from the logical conclusion of his position by saying that charities would pay for the man's care as they did when Paul practiced medicine before Medicare/Medicaid.


    We could take away the health care (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 09:57:00 AM EST
    benefits from Congress (active and retirees) and let them fend for themselves.

    At least his crazy comes... (none / 0) (#94)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 11:01:46 AM EST
    with a healthy side of individual liberty, which is more than we can say of the other brands of crazy that come with a side of statist tyranny.

    I mean socialism isn't an option...its dog eat dog freedom a la Ron Paul or oligarchy a la Obama and Romney with a lot of empty assurances that it ain't no oligarchy....these appear to be our choices, and at least Crazy Ron doesn't think I'm a criminal.


    I don't subscribe in any way to any (none / 0) (#101)
    by observed on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 11:19:03 AM EST
    notion that Ron Paul has of individual liberty.
    He's even more toxic that Bachmann, in my opinion.

    He's a lot better... (none / 0) (#102)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 11:25:14 AM EST
    on gay rights and equal rights, and never worked collections for the mafia...aka the IRS.  If forced to choose between those two it's Paul, hands down.

    And the Nazis opposed communism, which (none / 0) (#104)
    by observed on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 12:10:27 PM EST
    truly was an evil system. You can't pick and choose with someone like Paul.
    He is a very dangerous radical, period.

    He may be dangerous, (none / 0) (#105)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 12:16:06 PM EST
    and he sure is radical...we need a dose of radical.

    Lets face it they are all dangerous, Brand R and Brand D alike, I just think Ron has some good points and good views...his radical views on foreign policy and occupation sound pretty good, don't they?  His drug war views are cool too...he's selling more that I wanna buy than the others, for damn sure, but he'd probably be a disaster like all the rest, no argument there.  All that is being sold is disaster.


    Justice is done (none / 0) (#1)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 03:47:37 PM EST

    J-E-T-S Jets Jets Jets... (none / 0) (#3)
    by kdog on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 04:01:01 PM EST
    get a gift-wrapped W from the universally hated Cowboys, Anne's Ravens put the smackdown on the Steelers, jondee's Bills win big on the road in KC, and Mike Vick might be the best QB in the league...Eagles look scary good, but I guess the Rams will do that to a team:)

    Praise the lord the season was saved and we the masses have our beloved opiate...religion's f*ckin' out, football's f*ckin' in!  And the only thing worse than hard times are hard times with no opiates.

    Don't forget Da Bears! (none / 0) (#4)
    by ruffian on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 04:05:43 PM EST
    Ah, the Bears. (none / 0) (#37)
    by caseyOR on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 07:33:33 PM EST
    It is always sweet when the Bears win. Cutler played a much better game than I thought he would. And how 'bout that Brian Urlacher getting another TD?

    I heart Urlacher (none / 0) (#72)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 09:25:23 AM EST
    What a throwback to the best of the Bears tradition! Cutler is growing on me too.

    Can't wait for a nationally televised game so I can watch. I say that, but when it comes they tend to do poorly....


    umm (none / 0) (#7)
    by CST on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 04:24:38 PM EST
    you know football season doesn't start for another hour and a half right :)?

    I'm touched you remember, kdog... (none / 0) (#21)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 05:38:40 PM EST
    yes, that Ravens game was a total smackdown of the Steelers; almost no one was giving the Ravens, with their untested new o-line, their youngsters at tight end, much of a chance to beat a fairly intact Steelers team.

    It felt like the Steelers came in having totally bought into the hype, they got punched in the face from Jump Street, and never recovered; they were frustrated, off-balance, and acting like three-year olds.  

    You know it's a good day when Hines Ward never cracks a grin...

    Here's hoping there's no let down in Tennessee next week.

    Your Jets gave the fans an edge-of-the-seat game, for sure - congrats!

    And Atlanta?  After two meltdown games - the Packers in the playoffs and the Bears yesterday - I hope we can stop listening to the Matty Ice hype; I'm not saying he's a bad QB, but he's not all he's been cracked up to be.

    And speaking of Vick, I know he thinks he played "lights-out," but his completion percentage was a sub-par 44%; he's got such talent around him, though, that can compensate when he struggles - and that's pretty much the definition of "team."  How well I remember the Ravens' Super Bowl year, when we played 5 games where we never scored a TD - but that was about smothering defense that kept the other teams from scoring.

    Am glad the Patriots/Miami game is the early one - I don't think I can make it to see all of the Oakland/Denver game.

    But, hey - it's great to have football back!


    I'm definitely seeing a (none / 0) (#35)
    by brodie on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 07:19:36 PM EST
    Ravens vs Pats AFC Championship game this year, unless the Jets once again spoil it for the Pats.

    If the Ravens can continue to improve with Flacco and maybe open things up a bit on offense they could be headed to the SB.  And they've always played the Pats tough.

    In NFC news it looks like my 49ers won't be the embarrassment they were last year now that Jim Harbaugh has taken over on the sidelines.  Sometimes a coaching change is enough to cause a complete turnaround in attitude and fortune.  That's my hope anyway -- been a long time since I've felt enthusiastic about this team but this could be the year the Niners at least rise above terrible.


    Niners need Luck (none / 0) (#51)
    by MKS on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 11:20:24 PM EST
    and not just good fortune if you know what I mean......  

    The general mood in (none / 0) (#41)
    by easilydistracted on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 09:27:05 PM EST
    cowboy nation this morning was.. well...lets just say lacking the usual swagger and leave it at that. Expectations are quite high for the 'boys this season, after the horror of last season. Its bad enough to get beat, but to get beat by a team from "Nu Yoke City" that's just intolerable.

    It was how they lost (none / 0) (#90)
    by MKS on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 10:46:01 AM EST
    giving up what should have been a 14 point 4th Quarter lead.

    and, for at least one week, (none / 0) (#47)
    by cpinva on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 10:41:03 PM EST
    rex grossman looked serviceable at qb for the redskins, and eli manning looked baffled.

    Let's hear it for our boys in green! (none / 0) (#54)
    by nycstray on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:37:52 AM EST
    Jets play the Raiders for the home opener here in a couple weeks. I'll be wearin' da green and having a friendly back and forth with my bro-in-law Raiders fan . . . ;)

    Yup, the opiate be good and I intend to partake all the way to the SB :)


    Freudian Slip? (none / 0) (#8)
    by vicndabx on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 04:27:17 PM EST
    How Obama Wants to Pay for His Debt Plan.  Or is there a joke in there somewhere I missed?

    I'm #265 (none / 0) (#10)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 04:31:57 PM EST
    At the DMV for license plates and they are only up to 215. hope I get home for Weeds.

    Is that the one in 5 Points? (none / 0) (#11)
    by sj on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 04:37:01 PM EST
    They were always pretty efficient.

    Yes (none / 0) (#12)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 04:43:19 PM EST
    Five points

    15 numbers (none / 0) (#13)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 04:44:54 PM EST
    In 35 minutes. Now at 230

    That's a little bit slower (none / 0) (#14)
    by sj on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 04:51:36 PM EST
    than usual, I think, but still not bad.

    Now over an hour (none / 0) (#19)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 05:21:41 PM EST
    And only at 245. Hope some ppl with high nos left . And that I brought the right documents . My iPad battery is already down to 88%

    Well. That's not good (none / 0) (#20)
    by sj on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 05:24:35 PM EST
    I've only ever gone over my lunch hour and the most I was gone from work was an hour and a half including travel time.  Usually as long as all windows are manned it was really efficient.

    Of course I've been here for 4 years now.  No telling what budget cuts have produced.


    Oh, dear (none / 0) (#15)
    by Zorba on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 04:57:04 PM EST
    I'm sorry, Jeralyn.  You need to move to some place smaller, population-wise.  Out here in Western Maryland, I have never waited more than a half hour, tops, for any transaction at the DMV.  We're all just hoping that people from much more heavily-populated Montgomery County, MD never figure out that it would take them less time to drive out here (at least an hour to an hour and a half) to do their DMV business.  Heck, even in the next county over (Frederick County), the average wait is 2 or 3+ hours, and they could drive out to our DMV in about 40 minutes or less, finish their business, and be home in less time than the wait in their county.    

    Is CO a "plates with owner" (none / 0) (#16)
    by andgarden on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 04:59:51 PM EST
    or a "plates with car"state? I've only ever lived in the former, but I think there is virtue to the latter.

    I'm nostalgic for PA's old "yellow on blue" plates. The replacements just look like Ohio's.


    Plates with owner (none / 0) (#17)
    by sj on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 05:06:48 PM EST
    I have/had personalized plates which I just transferred from my old to my new car.  Now that I'm in Maryland, I'd like the MD version of that plate.  What virtue do you see in plates with car (cause I'm not seeing it...)?

    Zorba, I may need to get more information from you (as noted above).  Also need to get MD driver's license.  Finally.  At least it would give me a do-over on my photo.  


    Get yourself over (none / 0) (#23)
    by Zorba on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 05:46:29 PM EST
    to the Washington County, MD Motor Vehicle Administration location, if you are anywhere within a reasonable drive of Hagerstown, MD.  If you're east of Hagerstown, take Interstate 70 west, get off at Exit 29, Route 65, go south (left at the end of the exit ramp).  Turn right on Col. Henry K. Douglas Dr.- you'll see the signs, it's very close to Rt. 65.  I can't guarantee that personalized plates will be quick, though- I've never gotten any.  The people are pleasant and helpful, however.  Good luck!  

    The virtue is (none / 0) (#24)
    by andgarden on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 05:52:56 PM EST
    that there's less to think about when you buy or sell a used car (but perhaps more when you buy a new one).

    Oregon is a plates with car state, and it has (none / 0) (#36)
    by caseyOR on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 07:30:23 PM EST
    its own problems. Chief among those problems occurs when you sell your car and the purchaser does not immediately register the title and registration change. If the new owner (NO) then gets a parking or red-light camera speeding ticket, the old owner (OO) gets dinged for the fine.

    In some cases the NO racks up quite a few fines, usually parking, and the OO keeps getting the bill. It is an incredible hassle to get straightened out.

    It is amazing to me how few NO zip on over to DMV and immediately transfer the title and registration.


    In Maryland, (none / 0) (#40)
    by Zorba on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 08:28:49 PM EST
    the plates don't go with the car (with very few exceptions involving parent/child or child/parent, or joint ownership going to one of the original owners, etc).  You sell your car, you turn in the plates and the new owner gets their own.  All kinds of rules about how the title must be transferred properly, too.  OTOH, if you fill out the back of the title properly for the transfer and follow all the rules, and you turn in your plates, no fines will come to you, so I guess all the paperwork is worth it.

    Yes, (none / 0) (#75)
    by sj on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 09:32:37 AM EST
    That was the first potential problem I saw with "plates with car".  

    To be honest, I'm one of those who doesn't just hop right down to the DMV.  I've only just gotten my Maryland plates after a few years.  The last bit I have yet to do is get an MD drivers license.  My Colorado doesn't expire for a few years :)

    Oh.  That and get my personalized plates.  But apparently for that I need to wait until a Maryland title for my car arrives.  Or something.


    This is why it can be well worth the (none / 0) (#83)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 10:25:04 AM EST
    relatively small cost of using a tag and titling service; we use them for estate transfers all the time, and for less than $50, they take care of the whole thing.  You call, go over the details of what you're doing, they tell you everything you need to provide them with to get it done, what the fees to the MVA are, and you don't have to break a sweat over any of it!

    I overnight the documents, with whatever checks are needed, give them a return FedEx label so they can send me - or the client - the plates/title/whatever, and usually it's all done within a couple days.

    Renewing my title I do online, and have never had a problem; you can even get a "temporary registration" to put in the window of your car if you renew too close to the expiration date.


    I discovered Tag and Title (none / 0) (#87)
    by sj on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 10:38:29 AM EST
    At the last minute just before I went myself to motor vehicle to get my plates.  They were very efficient but not very forthcoming when it came to answering questions.  

    But I think that was just a personality trait of the woman behind the counter.  She was stellar at dealing with the business at hand.


    Am I the only one who had no idea (none / 0) (#89)
    by vml68 on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 10:45:15 AM EST
    there was such a thing as "plates with owner" and "plates with car"?

    Not entirely :) (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by sj on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 10:52:56 AM EST
    I've only experienced "plates with owner." I hadn't even heard about "plates with car" until andgarden asked the qustion.

    I just read about it (none / 0) (#100)
    by andgarden on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 11:16:13 AM EST
    I didn't know there was anything other than "plates with owner" either.

    I believe (none / 0) (#103)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 11:52:00 AM EST
    most western states are "plates with car." I had never heard of the latter until I moved to the east.  In California and Texas, the plates stay on the car. Seriously, how are you supposed to get a used car home from a private party if they take plates off the car?

    Good question, so I looked up the how-to in CO (none / 0) (#106)
    by sj on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 12:29:38 PM EST
    After Hours Purchase C.R.S. 42-3-115(2)(b), C.R.S. 42-6-113;  A buyer of a vehicle may operate a vehicle on the highway prior to registering the vehicle when:
    • The buyer has purchased the motor vehicle within the last 36 hours from a person who is not a licensed motor vehicle dealer.
    • The vehicle was purchased either on a Saturday, on a Sunday, on a legal holiday, or between 5p.m. and 8 a.m.
    • The vehicle is being driven from the place where the seller stored the vehicle to the place where the buyer intends to store the vehicle.  
    The buyer must carry in the vehicle:
    • A bill of sale that identifies the vehicle by year, make and VIN and shows the time and date of sale and is signed by both the buyer and the seller.
    •  Proof of insurance.

    When I bought a used car from a private party we went directly to county offices to register the sale.  I think.  It's been quite a while.  I do remember that I had to buy plates immediately and wasn't eligible for temporary tags.  I remember because it was my first car and new tags weren't in my budget.

    When my son bought a used car from a registered dealer I think they provided the temporary tags.  


    Next time try the one at Broadway and (none / 0) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 06:47:03 PM EST
    County Line.... They were never busy when I was living there.

    wrong county (none / 0) (#38)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 08:22:19 PM EST
    that's Arapahoe, not Denver. But thanks.

    Used to be a fairly decent BBQ rest. (none / 0) (#42)
    by easilydistracted on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 09:36:36 PM EST
    somewhere around that corner as I recall. Northwest side of the street. Also, darned good mexican restaurant north on Broadway several miles, west side of the road. Family run. Great Chile Relleno. I lived in Highlands Ranch during the early 90s. This has nothing to do with licenses, I know. Your remark brought back a fond memory or two.

    Small world (none / 0) (#45)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 10:32:04 PM EST
    I lived in South Park.

    Lots of great Mexican restaurants around. The one that sticks in my mind several miles north was on the south east side where Araphoe dead ends into Broadway, small shopping center... It was first an excellent Italian restaurant..

    The BBQ restaurant is still there. County Line BBQ.

    Going north on Broadway turn left at County Line (west) go about a mile past the strip mall (FirstBank) and turn right on South Park Lane. It will be on your left about 1/2 mile. Sets just north of Highline Canal. Use to set out on the porch and watch for foxes and other wildlife while drinking a cold Bud... Ah, those were the days... we thought we would never grow old..


    I might have ran into ya on that (none / 0) (#69)
    by easilydistracted on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 09:14:40 AM EST
    porch. I've been known to sip a few there too

    Me too ppj. One of my favorite spots. (none / 0) (#73)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 09:30:58 AM EST
    Also the Northwoods Inn near there. Great steaks for a decent price on 'T-Bone Tuesday', and seasoned cottage cheese, which I miss even more than the steaks!

    I had a few friends living in that area. Such a pretty place.

    Also was a regular at the dog training area of Chatfield Park.

    Now I am making myself homesick.


    You know (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 09:52:49 AM EST
    drinking a brew and watching the sun go down is definitely non-partisan.


    Been gone now 7 years and last visit showed how it has grown. Not much wild life left.

    Still miss it but couldn't take the winters any longer.


    I've been gone 6 now, as of Labor Day (none / 0) (#97)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 11:08:13 AM EST
    Seems impossible.

    I've been back almost every year, and do see changes, primarily around the light rail stations. I moved right before the light rail extension down to Lincoln and I-25, which I would have used to go downtown from Castle Rock.

    I think what I miss most are the beautiful views from everywhere. No matter how I felt about anything else I could always enjoy the view. Not so easy here in Orlando.


    If I had stayed I could have walked (none / 0) (#143)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 03:01:58 PM EST
    to the Mineral Ave stop... Of course since I was retired there wasn't much need to beyond taking in a ball game, downtown restaurant, etc. I always took the bus to DIA when I was still working... $7.00 no hassles... I have about a 150 mile drive now and that's a hassle by itself.

    But what I miss the most is the people. In 17 years I didn't meet 17 %46(7holes.


    I've been gone a bit longer. (none / 0) (#172)
    by easilydistracted on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 10:13:36 PM EST
    I moved in 96. We lived in the Ranch for five years. And truly enjoyed. The winters were often a challenge. Oh, but those summers were gorgeous. Shorts in the afternoon and sweatshirts at night. Tell me about seasoned cottage cheese.

    jeralyn, (none / 0) (#49)
    by cpinva on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 10:42:28 PM EST
    why don't you renew them online? or is this for a brand, spanking new set of plates?

    The DMV.. (none / 0) (#110)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 12:54:25 PM EST
    is a cirlce of hell, road anarchy would be much preferable imo.

    So Obama proposed a jobs plan today (none / 0) (#28)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 06:45:28 PM EST
    One that Krugman approved (a while back his opinion on such things was viewed as a fair view by a liberal economist).

    One that is paid for by taxes on the rich and corporations.

    One that is far larger than what most projected it would be.


    So this is the part where objective critics do a begrudging slow clap, and then we all attack the GOP for holding up a decent piece of legislation designed to help.

    Is this microphone on?  I feel like I am the only one slow clapping.

    Remember (none / 0) (#30)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 06:53:14 PM EST
    he's tried all this before...

    Insanity is often described as doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results.

    And I loved the line where he tells us that because of the bill we will have fire fighters and police...

    Really???? He now believes that firemen and police are the responsibility of the federal government?

    Written by someone who just saw his property taxes take a 10% increase to pay for schools, firemen and police...I must make a note to call the mayor and tell him he no longer needs the money....

    Obama is here with his magic solutions.


    as opposed to the tea party republicans in (none / 0) (#50)
    by cpinva on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 10:45:27 PM EST
    the house, who've drained funds to states and localities, forcing them to either raise state/local taxes, or forego vitally needed emergency services.

    tell you what jim, next time your home catches fire, or you get mugged on the street, call eric cantor, and see if he'll come help you out.

    i'm guessing not.


    Actually I will call my local (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 07:56:42 AM EST
    assemblyman, mayor or sheriff.

    I see no reason for you to pay for my local services.


    It must be so lonely (none / 0) (#31)
    by NYShooter on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 06:55:29 PM EST
    being the only hero left

    I don't do slow claps but Obama has my praise (none / 0) (#32)
    by Babel 17 on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 07:03:40 PM EST
    A couple of things. (none / 0) (#55)
    by observed on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 03:17:24 AM EST
    First of all, good for Obama telling Republicans to just pass the damn bill. That said, the fact it's taken him 30 years of adult life to realize that Republicans can't be bargained with is absolutely pathetic, and 3 years of that as Potus is inexcusable.
    Second, the political aspect that he waits til re-election is around the corner is pathetic.
    On a scale of 1-10, I'll give him a 6 or 7 this time,for this one speech and one proposal.
    That raises his presidential average to 2-3.
    To get full credit, he needs to continue lobbying HARD for passage of the bill. Going to Cantor's district was good. Again, that is politics 101,but good for him to finally start, 3 years late.

    Addendum: I"m old enough to remember (none / 0) (#57)
    by observed on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 03:32:05 AM EST
    when I was supposed to praise Obama for the most ambitious medical care program since FDR--- months BEFORE he even signed a bill.
    I didn't do it then, and I won't do it now.
    Kudos for sticking it to Republicans. Also, Krugman says the plan will create jobs. I noticed that, and I was pleased.

    Here's a local (to my current location) piece of news Obama could highlight to support a larger jobs bill with infrastructre spending:
    The I-64 bridge from Indiana into Kentucky, going into Louisville, is shut down indefinitely because of dangerous cracks. Not only does this bridge have 80,000  car per day traffic, the alternative bridges cannot handle heavy trucks with commercial loads.


    Looking forward to (none / 0) (#33)
    by brodie on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 07:04:25 PM EST
    The Jackie Tapes tomorrow on ABC (unless I'm still at the airport or in transit, in which case I count on folks here to provide a complete rundown.  Her already released negative comments about LBJ (in part quoting JFK) are not a surprise to anyone familiar with remarks she made to Ted Sorensen as quoted in his recent memoir.  New is the revelation that JFK was trying to work with Bobby to find a way to prevent LBJ from succeeding him in 1968.

    The MLK stuff is messy but presumably someone set her and Bobby straight about the negative and probably false info JEH was feeding JFK about Dr King by no later than 1968.

    For those that thought (none / 0) (#39)
    by CoralGables on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 08:26:13 PM EST
    Perry bombed in the GOP debate last week.

    CNN/Opinion Research Pre/Post Debate Numbers

    Perry 27 - 30
    Romney 14 - 18
    Palin 10 - 15
    Bachmann 9 - 4
    Gingrich 6 - 5
    Paul 6 - 12
    Cain 2 - 5
    Santorum 1 - 2
    Huntsman 1 - 2

    Perry won tonight (none / 0) (#53)
    by MKS on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 11:29:46 PM EST
    Romney v. Perry was a classic head v. heart debate.

    Romney was smooth and articulate and logical (assuming conservative assumptions.)

    Perry looked better than his last performance.  

    Paul Begala on CNN put it as an emotion v. logic issue.

    The Republicans on CNN argeed.  The key telltale was Ari Fleischer advising candidates to stop attacking Perry on Social Security, indicating that he believed Perry was the winner.....bandwagon effect and trying to avoid another Republican (Romney) developing a lkine of attack against the eventual nominee (Perry.)


    Ron (none / 0) (#60)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 06:39:43 AM EST
    Paul isn't going to pay one iota of attention to that. He's already hitting Perry hard. Perry has so much baggage that he'll give Ron Paul reams of material to work with.

    Ron Paul has as much of a chance (none / 0) (#65)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 08:00:00 AM EST
    being nominated as you.

    He does serve a good purpose. He reminds the world that it ain't 1940.


    He's also a good reminder ... (none / 0) (#66)
    by Yman on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 08:30:07 AM EST
    ... of how completely, b@t$hit crazy the Tea Partiers are.

    I hope he stays in the race for a very long time.


    Really? (none / 0) (#82)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 09:59:58 AM EST
    Not even remotely (none / 0) (#84)
    by Yman on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 10:26:42 AM EST
    No, Jim.  I'm not talking about a couple of rally attendees engaging in a moment of hyperbole when prompted by a winger interviewer.  I'm talking about a public official and Presidential candidate being cheered on for suggesting we just let innocent people die.  In the TP crowd, that kind of language isn't a moment of hyperbolic venting about a public official - it's literally what they seek.  It's mainstream for their (your) crowd, and what they want enacted as public policy.

    But I understand why you'd want to pretend you can't tell the difference.

    BTW - Is that the only video you have?  ... 'cause you keep posting the same one.  Try to keep it fresh ... maybe the one of the guy swatting the cell phone or the one where you claimed Kenneth Gladney was "assaulted" by "union thugs".  Those are seriously funny.


    Really? (none / 0) (#107)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 12:48:04 PM EST
    Your nut cases are ok... but the other side's aren't?

    What's worse? Cheering about a hypothetical situation that will never exist or cheering about hanging a Supreme Court Justice?.... among others.

    But go ahead and excuse your nuts and someone will excuse the nuts on the other side...

    I just say, a pox on nuts from both sides.


    The "hanging of the SC justice" ... (none / 0) (#113)
    by Yman on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 01:19:50 PM EST
    ... will never occur, Jim - it was hyperbole from a person allegedly attending a Common Cause rally (although given Breitbart's history of posting distorted videos, this may not be a fair assumption), as opposed to a Republican candidate for President.  A mainstream (by Repub/Tea Party standards), elected official supported by millions of Republicans, calling for people to be left to die without medical care.

    It's not even close.

    BTW - Common Cause denounced the comments made by the protesters.  What are the odds that the Republican Party/Tea Party will condemn the "nuts" (including their own Congressman and candidate for POTUS) for cheering the death of uninsured patients?  I'll even help you out .... it starts with a "z" and rhymes with "hero".  You know why?

    Because in the Tea Party, the "nuts" and their policies are considered normal.


    Really??? (none / 0) (#128)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:37:19 PM EST
    Look, you go ahead and make excuses for your nut cases....

    I'll just say a pox on both sides.'

    Us Social Liberals are like that.



    Us social iberals (none / 0) (#134)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:44:22 PM EST
    the only one at the site who ever feels compelled to remind everyone here, at least a couple of times a week, that they're a social liberal. Now why is that?

    As the old song says "everyone talkin' bout heavan aint goin' there.."


    It's not "excuses" (none / 0) (#136)
    by Yman on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:44:50 PM EST
    I don't agree with their language - in fact, like Common Cause, I condemn it.  Now, will the Republican Party and Tea Party condemn it, or will they sit silently, because they agree with it?



    Fake video??? (none / 0) (#131)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:38:52 PM EST
    Wanna make a wager?

    I didn't say it was fake (none / 0) (#139)
    by Yman on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:49:20 PM EST
    I said given the wingers' history of distorted videos, it wouldn't surprise me (i.e. planted interviewees, etc.).  But sure, Jim, ... I'll wager.

    Prove it's real.


    Well since (none / 0) (#140)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:52:34 PM EST
    you told me that Common Cause apologized....

    You lose.

    But I'm sure you know how.



    apologized.. (none / 0) (#141)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:56:35 PM EST
    two posts down and the right wing cuckoo clock has already distorted what occurred..

    Common Cause condemned the statement; the organization didn't "apologize".


    English or logic? (none / 0) (#146)
    by Yman on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 03:13:37 PM EST
    They offer remedial classes in both, you know.

    They said what they said (none / 0) (#159)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 10:09:02 PM EST
    and you and Jondee can run to defend them and play the reframing game.

    But you fool no one.

    Good night!


    They did indeed (none / 0) (#167)
    by Yman on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 08:28:30 AM EST
    They just didn't say what you said.

    BTW - Common Cause has no more idea of whether that video is legit than you do - which is to say ... none.  They just assumed they were and issue a statement condemning them ... unlike the Tea Partiers, who sit silently or even cheer Ron Paul because they endorse his craziness and want it enacted.


    Did I say (none / 0) (#70)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 09:15:21 AM EST
    that Ron Paul was going to be nominated? No, I did not just that Perry gives him a ton of material to work with in his ads. Ron Paul has as much a chance of winning the GOP nomination as Perry does winning a general election.

    That be President Perry to you! (none / 0) (#81)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 09:57:18 AM EST

    Maybe (none / 0) (#92)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 10:53:41 AM EST
    you can start with footing the $8500 a month bill for his mansion then.

    It's interesting to see Tea Party back down on their stance about illegal immigration and now support paying for the education of their children and now supports mandatory cancer shots for girls.

    Molly Ivins said the next time I tell you not to elect someone from Texas will you listen? Obviously the tea party doesn't care. They're on a suicide mission.


    Does that mean he will go home and (none / 0) (#108)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 12:50:19 PM EST
    not to Martha's Vineyard and his wife won't fly off to Spain with a couple of hundred of her dearest friends?



    Naw (none / 0) (#111)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 01:05:35 PM EST
    he'll just continue to receive millionaire welfare at the expense of the taxpayers. I guess is people in Texas are dumb enough to foot the bill for a mansion, they'll pretty much put up with anything.

    Best line... (none / 0) (#125)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:33:49 PM EST
    Obama - Lost 2.5 million jobs

    Perry - Increased 1 million jobs


    Oh (none / 0) (#130)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:38:45 PM EST
    yeah if you want to be a maid, he has a lot of jobs for you. 95% minimum wage jobs and Texas has always done well when gas prices are high. Remember the 80's when the gas prices collapsed and what happened in Texas?

    Are you applying for a job as butler?


    Well, let me see (none / 0) (#135)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:44:45 PM EST
    Or you too good to do honest work?

    I worked on a farm, at a grocery, at a DQ, at a appliance factory, before I joined the Navy.

    So I certainly am not too good to be a maid, or a butler or any honest job.

    How about you??? Have I found another Limousine Liberal?

    And all the oil jobs are in the Dakota's.... now that's real flyover country.


    Are you too... (none / 0) (#137)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:45:14 PM EST
    No one said they're "too good" ... (none / 0) (#144)
    by Yman on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 03:05:52 PM EST
    ... to do honest work".  But turning your state into a third-world country just to create some low-quality jobs isn't what most people want for the country as a whole.  To be fair, though, Texas was well on its way before Perry.

    Maybe that's why he's so attracted to the idea of secession...


    Well, I see that my other (none / 0) (#160)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 10:11:54 PM EST
    Limousine Liberal has checked in.

    I bet that a goodly number of those 16% unemployed would love a job doing anything... even polishing your Limo sine.


    I guess when you can't argue the facts ... (none / 0) (#166)
    by Yman on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 08:24:01 AM EST
    ... you go for the personal attacks, right, Jim?

    BTW - Just to clarify - it doesn't bother me in the slightest.  I just think it's funny when a guy who whines constantly about "personal attacks" goes that route again ... and again ... and again...

    Not even bothering with an "LOL" or ;-) anymore, huh?


    Nope (none / 0) (#145)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 03:10:02 PM EST
    I've done some pretty rotten jobs in my life but I did get an education and have worked hard all my life but for all that Rick Perry wants me to work as a maid? If that's the attitude you have then just admit that the American Dream is over and the best you can hope for is to be somebody's maid or butler unless you happen to be born into the aristocracy.

    And he's going to take your minimum wage job and use it to pay the rent on his mansion. Gee, isn't that wonderful? Indentured slavery for everyone!


    Hey, the American dream (none / 0) (#162)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 10:17:06 PM EST
    says that you can be raised in East Texas on a cotton farm and grow up to serve your country in the air force, get elected as governor and run for the nomination for Prez....

    Now, what have you done with your education and opportunities???

    I mean besides attacking your political opponents.


    That's (none / 0) (#163)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 06:16:27 AM EST
    the "I got mine" attitude from Rick Perry and so he grew up on a cotton farm but now he wants everybody else to stay on the cotton farm. I remember the 90's and I did quite well then thank you very much. The decline started under W in this country and now you want another crony capitalist who has a state eaten up with wildfires and fired firemen so they don't have the staff to handle it.

    Rick Perry offers a rancid future for my 18 year old son. I guess you'll happily offer up all your grandchildren to pick cotton for the rest of their lives. Good for you.


    So what ever you do (none / 0) (#169)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 09:58:51 PM EST
    or did.... Anyway, you are saying you became dated and couldn't keep up.

    Now I understand your bitterness.


    You (none / 0) (#173)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 05:06:29 AM EST
    apparently missed the part about my 18 year old son. Remember reading is your friend. You don't just look at something and decide what it means.

    You apparently (none / 0) (#174)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 05:08:06 AM EST
    are the one dated and don't realize what has happened with wages in this country. You're pretty gullible it seems and will believe whatever the GOP tells you.

    President Perry.. (none / 0) (#114)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 01:28:17 PM EST
    that'd certainly be another victory for faux-social liberals and Log Closet Republicans everywhere..

    Plus, if nothing else, Perry would give more deregulatory ammo to the flim-flam artists on Wall St, so that they can get on with the business (started in '07) of definitively trashing the economy. One must remember afterall, that horrific events of global magnitude mean, to the Rapturists on the Right, that Jesus'll be back soon. So it's all good.  


    Don't you just love it? (none / 0) (#126)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:35:05 PM EST
    Two out of three are Texans.

    Makes me proud.



    about four people (none / 0) (#147)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 03:44:19 PM EST
    in the state can give a detailed acounting of what Paul stands for, and Perry is a walking tastament to the fact that white people, too much sun, chicken fried steak and fundamentalism don't mix.

    That and the fact that you're not from Texas doesn't leave a lot left to be proud of.


    I knew you just had to bring a (none / 0) (#161)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 10:13:50 PM EST
    racism claim into the conversation.

    Just can't make an argument without the race card, eh?



    it just comes up (none / 0) (#168)
    by jondee on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 12:48:23 PM EST
    every time I see a panoramic shot of the average Tea Party rally.

    Not since the days of George Lincoln Rockwell have I seen such diversity.


    Yes jondee, you play the race (none / 0) (#170)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 10:00:17 PM EST
    card and have done so for years.

    The funny thing is, no one cares!


    Maybe if the teabaggers (none / 0) (#177)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 03:32:38 PM EST
    publicly expressed some degree of knowledge and concern about problems that effect us beyond "all the government wants to do is take our money and spend, spend, spend", you might attract a more thoughtful and diverse group of people, be less utterly fixated in a paranoic, adversarial, black and white mindset, and actually start moving into a constructive, problem-solving mode.  

    Maybe if you didn't want to play the race (none / 0) (#179)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 07:16:22 PM EST
    card and then insult everyone who otherwise might pay attention to you... you might be worthy of listening to.

    But you don't and you will not.

    Have an nice night.


    Perry apparently agrees (none / 0) (#85)
    by MKS on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 10:31:21 AM EST
    in large part with Ron Paul about us pulling out of Afghanistan......

    That was very, very interesting......The Neocons are way out of favor now.


    I don't know about you (none / 0) (#109)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 12:52:00 PM EST
    but when the situation changes I change.

    Obama told the Taliban and al Qaeda when we would leave Afghanistan.

    At that point the war was lost.


    ROTFLMAO (none / 0) (#112)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 01:07:56 PM EST
    So if we do a mass pull out tomorrow with telling anybody the GOP will say the war is won?

    No, the GOP is just looking for ways to unload this turkey on somebody else. No matter how hard they try though, the stink is going to hang on to them.


    I don't know what the GOP will say (none / 0) (#122)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:31:40 PM EST
    I will say the war was lost when Obama announced our withdrawal date.

    That was the dumbest thing I have ever heard him say. And that covers a lot of ground.


    The war (none / 0) (#132)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:40:50 PM EST
    was always a stinker and trying to unload it on somebody else won't work. The GOP owns this turkey and they are the ones that are going to have to eat the rotten turkey. I guess they are finally conceding that Bush was wrong though.

    Nope (none / 0) (#150)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 05:11:14 PM EST
    This is Obama's war.

    Wishful (none / 0) (#153)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 06:09:50 PM EST
    thinking on your part. Who started it? Bush. He's the one that is going to have this as his "legacy". How many people blame Nixon for Vietnam? Not many unless you're one of the ones. Most people blame Johnson just like they blame Bush. This one's a GOP stinker but you've already conceded that since you're trying to blame Obama for it.

    Who started WWII? Korea? (none / 0) (#156)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 09:59:41 PM EST
    Cold War???

    But, if you want to blame Bush, blame away. Bush isn't running.

    Blame Obama for starting it? Nope. Blame Obama for losing it, yes.

    You see, when the CinC tells our sworn enemies when he will withdraw our troops.... the enemies just pull back and say, "We'll just keep the pressure up until they leave, but we won't get in a do or die situation because we know when the end is."

    Like it or not, that will be one piece of Obama's foreign policy legacy.


    You can't (none / 0) (#164)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 06:19:22 AM EST
    win a war that was already lost. Okay. So Nixon lost Vietnam then according to you?

    For some reason you are in complete denial of what a disaster George W. Bush was for this country but that is pretty typical of tea party members it seems.


    Hey, you elected Obama (none / 0) (#171)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 10:02:42 PM EST
    to fix the problems and all I have is this downgraded credit rating and $4 trillion more in debt!

    Feh (none / 0) (#175)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 05:10:33 AM EST
    I don't accept any debt arguments from a Republican because Bush ran it up more than any President in history and the GOP sat there and rubber stamped all of it. I find it laughable that the GOP even thinks they are credible on this issues. The facts don't back up what they are saying but hey, that never mattered before.

    What nonsense (none / 0) (#178)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 07:13:20 PM EST
    Bush run up about 4-5 in 8 years and Obama did 4 in 30 months.

    Please......................... try being honest on such things


    Only if you include ... (none / 0) (#180)
    by Yman on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 09:19:26 PM EST
    ... the loss of revenue from the toilet economy that Bush left Obama.  Of course, that would be deceptive.

    BTW - Bush actually ran up $7 trillion in debt.


    Try using real math and not (none / 0) (#181)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 16, 2011 at 01:08:38 PM EST
    "excuse math."

    You elected him, he is all yours.


    Really, Jim? (none / 0) (#182)
    by Yman on Fri Sep 16, 2011 at 01:51:40 PM EST
    I did?

    The number of assumptions you make, not to mention leaps of logic and flat-out falsehoods knows no limits ...


    Blame Bush (none / 0) (#183)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 16, 2011 at 05:07:06 PM EST
    is the name of your game and we all know it.

    Nope - Obama gets plenty of blame (none / 0) (#184)
    by Yman on Fri Sep 16, 2011 at 05:47:43 PM EST
    I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of the TPers who've suddenly turned deficit hawks, now that Bush it out of office.  And, of course, your infinite capacity to make assumptions and leaps of logic that would astound anyone with the slightest background in constructing logical arguments.

    No, you are trying to provide (none / 0) (#185)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 16, 2011 at 09:36:57 PM EST
    cover for Obama.

    As compared to Obama, Bush was a Scrooge.


    "Scrooge"? Wrong season, Jim (none / 0) (#186)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 17, 2011 at 06:55:58 AM EST
    Switch that to "stooge" and I might agre with you and the other TP hypocrites.

    And you elected Bush, ... (none / 0) (#176)
    by Yman on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 08:20:12 AM EST
    ... who added waaaaaaaaayyy more to the national debt than Obama has, thanks to his two unfunded wars, tax cuts, increased domestic and other defense spending, unfunded prescription drug benefits, etc., which doesn't even include the large reduction in tax revenue when he tanked the economy.

    Perry and Paul (none / 0) (#118)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:19:30 PM EST
    are giving aid and comfort to the morale of our enemies by their public statements. I hope they and their followers are happy. Though, I do seem to dimly recall a time when red-blooded Americans could count on leaders who supported our troops and who embodied, by their words and actions, the idea that extremism in defense of liberty is no vice..



    Really? (none / 0) (#123)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:32:25 PM EST
    Well, I'll give you Paul and raised you Obama.

    The troops thank you (none / 0) (#129)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:37:48 PM EST
    for your support, Jim. The Taliban troops, that is.

    But, you folks have wanted school prayer right along, so I suppose your new-found weakness for prayer rugs is somewhat understandable.


    Heh (none / 0) (#138)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:46:22 PM EST
    Reframing becomes you.

    My name is not Obama.



    Jjim? (none / 0) (#142)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:58:07 PM EST
    is that how they spell it where you come from?

    Nope (none / 0) (#148)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 04:27:44 PM EST
    Remember I am an American by birth.

    And a Southerner by the grace of God.

    And Obama still gave away the store and caused a lot of deaths.


    Well, if you get a President Perry (none / 0) (#154)
    by MKS on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 06:54:41 PM EST
    the troops would still be there, and you could have a different policy.....

    Did I say I wanted a Perry?? (none / 0) (#157)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 10:03:08 PM EST
    GOP (none / 0) (#59)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 06:36:54 AM EST
    on a suicide mission it looks like. Perhaps they really don't want to win the next election.

    Bingo. (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Towanda on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 09:10:03 AM EST
    And I still think that, with McCain, they didn't want to win the last one, either.

    Blame the mess on Dems, put in a Dem who pushes Republican plans, take back the White House in 2016 with a Reagan-like lock for a dozen years.  That means Republican programs pushed by the White House for three decades.


    Agree (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 09:32:56 AM EST
    The permanent Republican control of the government that they talked about during the Bush years has been achieved even though a person with a D after his name sits in the Oval Office.

    Yep (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by sj on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 09:44:27 AM EST
    Earliest next chance at pushback is 2016.  If Obama loses.

    We are so scr3wed.


    Perry could well win (none / 0) (#86)
    by MKS on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 10:33:16 AM EST
    He will adapt and learn to emphasize economic issues and to say he supports Social Security and Medicare.

    I doubt (none / 0) (#95)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 11:01:51 AM EST
    it frankly because he's a ticking time bomb waiting to explode. he doesn't seem to have the self discipline to run for President.

    The voters DO want to fire Obama but Perry can be made to be so toxic so easily and he reminds people of Bush. Honestly, is the GOP on a suicide mission or what? Looking at the clown circus that was that debate you would think that they are.


    So one would think (none / 0) (#96)
    by MKS on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 11:04:34 AM EST
    but Perry polls reasonably well against Obama right now--just a point or two behind.

    If the economy worsens, Perry could sail in......


    Well (none / 0) (#98)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 11:08:33 AM EST
    better get ready for radical fundamentalist rule in the country if that happens.

    It would be different if Perry won (none / 0) (#99)
    by MKS on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 11:10:45 AM EST
    I checked (none / 0) (#120)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:23:59 PM EST
    the poll numbers and Perry gets eviscerated in a general election and polls at the same numbers as Newt Gingrich nationwide. Obama is close to Romney but no one else right now. Apparently once Perry burst on the scene and people got a look at him, his numbers started to sink.

    He reminds me of Nixon (none / 0) (#127)
    by MKS on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:35:36 PM EST
    Diabolically good at stirring up and taking advantage of resentment.....

    Rasmussen (none / 0) (#149)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 05:09:37 PM EST
    Romney 43% Obama 40%

    Any Repub 47% Obama 42%


    Ras (none / 0) (#151)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 06:04:09 PM EST
    has a reputation for unreliable numbers. Check some of his past polling. He had McCain with higher numbers than he actually got.

    You are just so wrong (none / 0) (#158)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 10:06:55 PM EST
    I mean, really. Denial is never good.

    Nope (none / 0) (#165)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 06:24:09 AM EST
    Ras is one of the most unreliable pollsters.

    Though (none / 0) (#152)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 06:05:54 PM EST
    most polls show Romney actually doing the best against Obama. Kind of funny that the GOP wants to nominate someone who polls as badly as Newt. Maybe they want to lose?

    You might want to look (none / 0) (#115)
    by CoralGables on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 01:48:22 PM EST
    at that polling more closely

    Let's hope that PPP (none / 0) (#119)
    by MKS on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:20:00 PM EST
    contiunes to be a good polling outfit....

    ABC news had Perry up over Obama....


    The (none / 0) (#121)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:28:08 PM EST
    ABC story I found from googling said that the GOP thinks that he can beat Obama but it wasn't supported by any national polls.

    It was a recent CNN poll (none / 0) (#124)
    by MKS on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:33:23 PM EST
    of GOP voters.  Perry by far was believed to have the best chance against Obama.  Way better than Romney.

    Go figure.


    That just (none / 0) (#133)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 02:42:11 PM EST
    shows how out of touch they are with reality.

    Percy Harvin done good, although his (none / 0) (#52)
    by oculus on Mon Sep 12, 2011 at 11:25:17 PM EST
    team didn't.  

    Righthaven (none / 0) (#155)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 08:45:45 PM EST
    is likely to loose their lawsuit and be relegated to the dustbin of history, the Post admits their stupidity in going after the very people who drive traffic to their website and best of all, we are rid of Dean Singleton.  

    Win, push, win.