Happy July 4th - Morning Open Thread

I think I'll just put up music all day, songs that make us think of where we were, and where we are now, and how much work there is left to do to move this country towards freedom, especially when it comes to privacy rights.

Happy July 4th Everyone, This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

If you're grilling something great, please share!

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    Good plan J (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by ruffian on Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 06:31:52 AM EST
    Happy Independence Day to you all

    Would have been a couple of more obvious choices from The Boss, but here is the first one that popped into my head...

    Gonna be a Long Walk Home

    That flag flying over the courthouse means certain things are set in stone
    Who we are, what we'll do, and what we won't

    Miss you Clarence and Danny

    DOJ Formally Declares DOMA Unconstitutional ... (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Erehwon on Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 08:50:59 AM EST
    Good news for a change, I trust! See bmaz for details!

    If you're going to use (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Che's Lounge on Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 03:31:59 PM EST
    the Airplane, then try this:


    Happy 4th Jeralyn and (none / 0) (#2)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 06:54:03 AM EST
    Pirate Crew, poker players and all others, even UF supporters!

    Oh my. (none / 0) (#3)
    by lentinel on Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 08:31:41 AM EST
    Where we were, and where we are now:

    2010 Report: Wiretaps Up 34% Over 2009.

    Oh say - does that star spangled banner still wave o'r the land of the free and the home of the brave?

    Ratko Mladic (none / 0) (#5)
    by observed on Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 09:09:58 AM EST
    Objects that he is not allowed the lawyers of his choice. Anyone know the story here? He has a court appointed lawyer.

    The International Court, like U.S. courts, (none / 0) (#12)
    by Peter G on Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 12:26:47 PM EST
    has a "bar" -- a list of lawyers who are accepted by the court as qualified by training (and language skills, in this case) to appear there.  Mladic's chosen, private lawyers are not on that list.  However, like courts in the U.S. (as declared a constitutional rule a few years ago by the Supreme Court), the ICTY (International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia) apparently makes exceptions, whenever reasonably possible, at the request of the accused.  The coverage says that Mladic's choice of lawyers is being examined now to see if they can be qualified.  This is a little less favorable to the accused than in U.S. practice, where the criminal defendant's preferred lawyer (assuming the accused has retained that lawyer, or the lawyer volunteers; there is no right to court-appointed counsel of choice) would normally be allowed to appear immediately, until and unless found to be unqualified.

    thanks! The trials of (none / 0) (#15)
    by observed on Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 12:51:04 PM EST
    Mladic and Karadzic ought to be riveting.

    The right to gluttony (none / 0) (#6)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 10:38:06 AM EST
    Wimbledon ended yesterday. The Tour de France continues today. And just like those traditions on the snobby side of the pond, we in America have our summer traditions. In the Land of the Free it's fireworks, cookouts, and wishing for more Founding Fathers in out wallets. The traditions of Independence Day stay the same year after year, and there is none bigger to compete with the likes of Wimbledon and the Tour de France than our own Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest from the less than sparkling shores of Coney Island.

    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to scarf hot dogs". The words brought a tear to the eye of Takeru Kobayashi as he arrived in America before becoming a 6 time winner of the famed glutton contest. To this day Kobayashi stands for all that is right in America by refusing to compete as he twists the no taxation without representation into no hot dog eating without being able to "sell my name with every dog I eat".

    With Takeru having taken his dog and gone home, Americans coast to coast will set their sights and their money (betting at Bodog.com) on homegrown world record holder and  multi-time champion Joey Chestnut, who will single-handedly consume more hotdogs today than the entire Talk Left community.

    In addition, today marks the start of Coney Island Equal Rights, in an odd sort of way, in that women are no longer equal to men. Nathan's has come to the conclusion that TV Rights are of greater importance than women competing equally with men, and instead will stitch together a separate but equal women's contest and a smaller and slightly less elaborate mustard yellow belt. We've come a long way baby. Bikini's and tight tops to appear soon to boost ratings.

    The excitement of the mastery of gluttony can be seen at Noon Eastern Time on the Worldwide Leader in Sports, ESPN.

    Bay Area weather forecast (none / 0) (#7)
    by Dadler on Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 11:06:41 AM EST
    100 inland, 80 on the bay, 61 on the coast.

    That's some variety.

    We'll be heading to the coast, Fort Funston to be exact, to let our dog run and roam with his fellow SF canines.  Then maybe a little tennis with my son (I may be a gimp, with a bum foot, and I may have to wear a lousy ankle brace when I play, but dammit if I won't tough it out and compete...gotta teach sonny boy some classic serve and volley, Johnny Mac style.) Even bought some sparklers and ground blooming flowers in San Bruno (not legal here in Millbrae) so Eli can get a taste of what it was like when I was a kid and fireworks filled the street every 4th.

    Freedom, freedom, freedom...all I hear is Richie Havens singin' it.

    Have a lovely and safe one, y'all.  

    Richie Havens clip (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Dadler on Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 11:18:48 AM EST
    I'm hanging with the 80 on the bay :) (none / 0) (#10)
    by nycstray on Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 12:02:41 PM EST
    my poor mom is in the 100 inland zone.

    Have fun @ FF with the dogs! I'm stuck inside with a massive amount of homework :P


    Health Care Most Americans Only Dream Of (none / 0) (#9)
    by Edger on Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 12:00:37 PM EST
    "Residents of Libby [Montana] don't have to be 65 years old or more. They don't have to wait until 2014 for the state exchanges. There's no 10-year roll out for them -- it's immediate. They don't have to purchase a plan -- this isn't a buy-in to Medicare. It's free. They don't have to be disabled for two years before they apply. They don't have to go without care for three years until Medicaid expands. They don't have to meet income tests. They don't have to apply for a subsidy or pay a fine for failure to buy insurance. They don't have to hope that the market will make a plan affordable or hide their pre-existing conditions. They don't have to find a job that provides coverage."

    -- Health Care Most Americans Only Dream Of

    What about the MT asbestos? (none / 0) (#11)
    by EL seattle on Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 12:20:33 PM EST
    From the same link:

    You see, a vermiculite mine had spread deadly airborne asbestos that killed hundreds and sickened thousands in Libby and northwest Montana. W.R. Grace & Co., which owned the mine, denied its connection to the outbreaks of mesothelioma and asbestosis and dodged responsibility for this disaster. The federal government got stuck with most of the tab for the cleanup costs, and the EPA has issued a first-of-its-kind order declaring Lincoln County a public health disaster.


    To add to the clarification (none / 0) (#13)
    by christinep on Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 12:37:21 PM EST
    This case hasn't been a quick, quick...as an EPAer over the years, I can say that the development took years of investigation in the face of what many would call foot-dragging by respondent W.R. Grace. (Trace Grace's history & close association back to Reagan, btw, and to the group who eschew significant federal regulation. Check on the history of other plants, and vermiculite operations as well.)

    Then, if you really want to get an idea of what this company-type town of Libby was like and what its residents endured, talk with those who suffered in the area of the vermiculite operation. (NOTE: My comments reflect personal opinion only.)


    Yes (none / 0) (#14)
    by Edger on Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 12:47:44 PM EST
    You'd think that Obama and the Democratic Party would have been on this long before Baucus got around to it....

    Actually, they were (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by christinep on Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 01:08:20 PM EST
    The federal action was coordinated with the state throughout. Senator Baucus was most assuredly in that coordination loop. For a time perspective, the response to the Libby situation began in the mid-90s.

    This might not be the type of case with which you would want to make political hay. Suffering & death, as documented in the Libby situation, is a lot more than political positioning, Edger.


    I don't care about political hay (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Edger on Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 01:17:29 PM EST
    I just think everyone should have Socialized Medicine

    okey doke...now I see your direction (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by christinep on Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 02:21:17 PM EST
    On this Fourth of July & on all other days, I look forward to the full health care reality that--IMO--we will eventually reach & that will be a right guaranteed to all.

    Given how long many of us have regarded the matter as of paramount importance, I do believe that we have made real, tangible progress in the past few years. The process is painful, but it is finally starting to happen after years of wishful thinking and incomplete, lost starts that ended in no movement for anyone at all.  Clearly, I accept & support incrementalism--because it is much better than heretofore.  Clearly, also, I agree with your stated goal. In the spirit of who we all are, here is wishing you a refreshing Fourth of July!


    Sorry, a little late to share. (none / 0) (#21)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 09:37:33 PM EST
    I grilled a absolutely beautiful filet mignon and had it with green beans and a baked potato.  None left to share though--I ate it all!  :)

    Having chocolate cream pie for desert later, so feel free to stop by for some of that...

    Even later (none / 0) (#25)
    by christinep on Tue Jul 05, 2011 at 11:53:25 AM EST
    Sounds like a great repast, MileHi. Meanwhile, at our place, we planned one food combo but did another...because I swore off anything hot (like stoves & cooking) when I noticed the car thermometer as we returned home. 102 degrees! As I'm sure you know--humidity or not here in Denver--that air felt like a too hot sauna.

    We went to Racines, instead; and, ate a mixture of good/bad for you foods. My favorite: Cherry cobbler.

    Oops. The car must have been mistaken about the temperature as 760 radio this am announced it was only 100.


    Way too hot for man or beast. (none / 0) (#27)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Jul 05, 2011 at 02:34:48 PM EST
    around here this weekend, that's for sure.  I know its bad when my little wall unit AC's can't keep up!  Thank goodness for those thunderstorms.

    Racine's, eh?  Sounds good!  Did you see they are closing Dixon's?  

    I was treated to  the CCCC fireworks from the balcony after my meal last night.  Pretty good show.  


    A Bit of Denver (none / 0) (#28)
    by christinep on Tue Jul 05, 2011 at 09:54:09 PM EST
    Appreciate this sidebar on a favorite subject: Denver & aspects thereof.

    On Dixon's: Had lunch there a week ago (Eggs Mazatlan...just like Racines) & didn't hear about the closing plans until the weekend. Racines/Dixons owners are savvy in that they pull back before automatically extending.  Some other good yet comfy places that have been around a long time: Washington Park Grill on south Gaylord & Cherokee Grill @12th & Cherokee; and, when not striving too hard for upscale, the Avenue Grill on 17th & Washington.

    On the weather: Ta-da! Prediction for 79 degrees tomorrow (a comedown we would all like.)

    On one of a number of area issues: The Douglas Cty approach to using public monies/taxes to supplement vouchers for private schools--methinks that could add up to an undermining of the public school system.

    Stay well, MileHi.


    Exactly what they want. (none / 0) (#29)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Jul 06, 2011 at 08:30:02 PM EST
    We can't have poor people getting a decent education!  I see another group filed suit today for an injunction to stop it before the new school year starts.  Certainly going to be an interesting test of the State constitution.  I think (hope) it will get overturned.  

    Pretty sad really--one of the richest counties in the whole country with one of the lowest effective tax rates and they can't be bothered to even consider a mill levy increase to make sure everyone gets a quality education.  

    First Goodfriends and now Dixons.  It always saddens me when local institutions go away.  At least Racines won't be going away since they own the property.  Always had a soft spot for that outlet as its been a meeting place of Denver Health since my friends were manning the Knife and Gun Club back in the day.  Cherokee is a favorite too--ate a lot of lunches there when I was at Security Life/ING.  Dozen's too.  


    I've been really ill for a month (none / 0) (#22)
    by ZtoA on Tue Jul 05, 2011 at 12:31:41 AM EST
    and am staying in tonight, and didn't go out to party or to see friends or fireworks but can heard them. I'm in Portland OR and my neighborhood has lots of fireworks going off legally - some of them pretty big and loud, and so many people love the illegal ones. I love them too! So it is a bouquet of percussive notes. I find it moving. Without the BBQ and the friends and visuals, the noise could be celebratory or it could be actual sounds of war. I've seen only several bright explosions from my front stoop. I'm ashamed to admit but I've never realized as much as tonight how much this holiday celebrates war and the good that can come from war.

    Please BTD (none / 0) (#23)
    by kmblue on Tue Jul 05, 2011 at 04:58:36 AM EST
    post today.  I need more politics--see Krugman's mon column

    Google News just creeped me out (none / 0) (#24)
    by sj on Tue Jul 05, 2011 at 08:55:28 AM EST
    While on hold just now, I wandered over to Google News and selected "Entertainment" news (okay, I'm shallow).

    One of the links on Entertainment news was this!

    Autopsy today on woman's body in Indiana

    Yes, the heading is accurate.  It's really a news bit about Lauren Spierer, a missing blond white girl.

    at least they were honest.

    Fireworks (none / 0) (#26)
    by wguy on Tue Jul 05, 2011 at 12:55:02 PM EST
    No fireworks for the 4th here in Woodlands, Texas, due to the 3rd worst drought it Texas history -- so this thread is exactly what I needed. ; )

    Steve Martin was on NPR yesterday, interview here:

    Here is a Youtube version of the song: