Wednesday Morning Open Thread

Busy day again for me. Here's an open thread for you, all topics welcome.

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    So I survived essay day (I hope) (5.00 / 6) (#1)
    by andgarden on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 04:36:08 AM EST
    On to the MBE.

    Except for being part of the bar exam, (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 06:10:56 AM EST
    I have no idea what the MBE is but good luck anyway.

    Glad that essay day is behind you. I'm sure you did just great.

    How much longer until you are through?


    It's the Multi-State portion, which (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Anne on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 07:04:01 AM EST
    is given on Day Two - of two; the general bar exam in one's state is given on Day One.

    More info:

    The Multistate Bar Examination (MBE) is a six-hour, 200-question multiple-choice examination covering contracts, torts, constitutional law, criminal law and procedure, evidence, and real property.

    The Multistate Bar Examination (MBE) is developed by the National Conference of Bar Examiners (NCBE) and is administered by participating jurisdictions on the last Wednesday in February and the last Wednesday in July of each year.

    I have no doubt andgarden will be acing both parts.


    Thanks for the info (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 07:14:53 AM EST
    I agree. andgarden will be acing both parts.

    Multiple Choice Unwritten Rule... (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 07:51:31 AM EST
    when in doubt, choose "C" A.G:)  

    Give the MBE hell!


    Multi-state rule, as handed down by (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:47:23 AM EST
    by review guy:  if half the time is up when you get to the staple, take a five min. break.  Imagine my surprise when I arrived timely at the staple but realized the staple wasn't in the middle of the booklet.  

    That would be bad advice for me (none / 0) (#121)
    by andgarden on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 04:55:26 PM EST
    because losing momentum on a test isn't wonderful.

    Time isn't the problem for me on the MBE, stamina is. Today seemed OK, though.


    Some states (NJ and MA, it turns out) (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by andgarden on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 03:15:59 PM EST
    administer their state essays on day two. California and Texas have three day exams. If PA's essay day didn't conflict with NY's, I would likely have taken that one too.

    I'm sure glad to be done.


    My kids sd. when I opened The Letter (5.00 / 3) (#141)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 06:14:59 PM EST
    you could probably have heard my scream in Iowa.  (I called my dad just in case.)

    Good luck.


    My wish for you-- (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by honora on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 06:42:30 AM EST
    is that the bar exam is a once-in-a-lifetime experience.  My heart still beats faster when I recall my driving test and the bar exam.  

    Congrats for that big step (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by ruffian on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 06:44:13 AM EST
    and best wishes for the next. Go get 'em!

    It's all downhill ... (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Yman on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 07:48:39 AM EST
    ... after the essay.

    Hang in there.


    Agree (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 08:22:49 AM EST
    MBE is long and a pain, but not as bad as essay.

    Yup (none / 0) (#99)
    by andgarden on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 03:13:52 PM EST
    I knew that the essay section would be brutal going in. The MBE, not so much.

    Glad that's over.


    Congratulations (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by jbindc on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 03:22:07 PM EST
    Now rest and find a job and then you can start the process of actually being a lawyer, since law school in no way resembles anything close to the practice of law.

    So I've been told (repeatedly) (none / 0) (#104)
    by andgarden on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 03:28:22 PM EST

    I'll be your first client! (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 03:56:35 PM EST
    Whaddaya charge for bankruptcy? I can offer you food and some decent hot pepper jelly I made...

    You'll be fine (none / 0) (#107)
    by jbindc on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 03:44:27 PM EST
    A federal judge (my Evidence prof) told me as I was stressing about the bar to think of your brain filling up with all kinds of junk and after the exam you can flush it all away as you will never use it again in your life.

    Relax now and go get some sunshine and fresh air, as I'm sure you haven't had any in a while!


    What is the duration of this bar exam? (none / 0) (#109)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 03:51:03 PM EST
    Is there a practicum segment?

    Two days (none / 0) (#119)
    by andgarden on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 04:50:57 PM EST
    NY administers the MPT as part of its essay day.

    C'Mon, Bruiser, (none / 0) (#120)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 04:54:52 PM EST
    sign me up! Tell me you'll get me a whole lotta money, or at least some relief!

    heh (none / 0) (#122)
    by andgarden on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 04:56:37 PM EST
    I don't know if I passed the Bar (and won't until November), but I do know enough law to tell you that there's no way I can do any of what you propose! Sorry. ;-)

    I'm showing faith in my (none / 0) (#129)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 05:13:07 PM EST
    TL buddy. How are you with wills? Seriously.

    That's not funny (none / 0) (#133)
    by andgarden on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 05:18:00 PM EST
    And as to how I am with them: wills are a creature of state law, and I learned barely enough about them to perform competently on the NY Bar.

    Was not trying to be funny. (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 05:44:55 PM EST
    Preparing for gee whiz, a car accident, if one should happen.

    But I will take your suggestion and find a state lawyer. Thanks, and seriously, I wasn't trying to make a macabre joke. If I had been, though, I may have posted the exact same thing.

    I owe you a pizza or something for that one.


    You know what, that was really a cruel (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by andgarden on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 06:14:24 PM EST
    reaction on my part, I'm sorry. Bar exam preparation tends to make you think that people only craft wills when they're crotchety, old, and rich (or on their deathbed). And that's obviously not fair. Wills are good!

    Be sure to get an attorney who is skilled (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 06:16:33 PM EST
    in trusts and estates.  Many aren't.  

    That's pretty quick, considering CA (none / 0) (#126)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 05:05:42 PM EST
    doesn't cover UCC and some other subject areas NY does.  

    CA doesn't cover UCC? (none / 0) (#130)
    by andgarden on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 05:16:33 PM EST
    That's about as big of an omission as I can imagine. It's as if they decided not to test on negligence. Do they just leave that to the MBE or something?

    NY is probably easier to pass than CA, but I think that's more related to the way the test is scored than the substantive difficulty of the content. Writing 5 essays (plus an MPT essay) in one day is no picnic.


    I don't know why and it may have changed (none / 0) (#135)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 05:53:38 PM EST
    but I was very glad UCC wasn't in the mix when I took the bar exam.  Did you get a trusts and estates question?

    I'm not permitted to answer (none / 0) (#139)
    by andgarden on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 06:09:55 PM EST
    that question. But if you scroll down here, you can see all of the essay questions asked by the New York Examiners back to the mid-90s. Wills and Trusts almost always appears.

    If you tell me you have to kill me? (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 06:22:05 PM EST
    I don't recall taking a vow of secrecy here.

    We had to inscribe a blood oath twice (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by andgarden on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 06:36:24 PM EST
    yesterday. No doubt my less mindful peers have already spilled the info elsewhere. But that's going to be their battle with the Character and Fitness Committee. The questions will be public before long.

    What I find most annoying (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by ruffian on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 06:57:06 AM EST
    is being governed by juveniles like this.

    The laws they come up with make me actually mad, of course, but the idea of these idiots pulling down big salaries and pensions is almost as bad.

    Hey ruff... (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 07:52:49 AM EST
    at least its more honest than usual, they are a crew on a crime spree fixin' to hurt some people.

    I'm not bothered (none / 0) (#20)
    by cal1942 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 08:38:56 AM EST
    by the salaries, etc.  I'm bothered by the effect these idiots have on our lives.

    Possibly the message sent by the Post article is to the Senate and means; we're going to put through something you're going to hate but it's the only deal you'll get and you'll have to pass it.

    I believe any piece of crap (Social Security, etc. cuts)that comes Obama's way at the last minute will be signed.  He and his worshipers will say it was the only possible deal and we must be practical.  I wouldn't be surprised to hear them say don't let perfect prevent the good. Don't expect him to veto and invoke the 14th amendment, after all he NEVER pressed for a clean vote.


    I think the part that bothers me the most (5.00 / 6) (#24)
    by Anne on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 09:24:04 AM EST
    is the pattern/template for "solving" these big problems:

    (1)  Wait for instructions from the WH on what the desired outcome is.

    (2)  Ignore all attempts by the people most affected by the particular issue to present any idea that do not mesh with the pre-determined outcome.

    (3)  Make sure the media and pundits are on board, and provide as many talking points as possible to advance the plan; include some negative messaging on the fair and credible plans most favored by the people.

    (4)  Make sure the special interests are in on the plan, and happy with it.

    (5)  Manipulate information and distort it if you have to.

    (6)  Ignore and marginalize contrary views by experts in the field.

    (7)  Make speeches.  Lecture the electorate as if they were too stupid to understand the stakes.

    (8)  When all else fails, use scare tactics, dire warnings, and as much scary imagery as possible.

    (9)  Go back to whichever steps you have to until the plan is finalized.

    "Changing the way things are done in Washington?"  Not so much.

    I have no illusions that these people are interested in anything resembling my definition of "greater good," but I am increasingly frustrated by the concerted effort that is made - especially on the Democratic side - to hit the "mute" button on the voice of the people.  And then, after more or less telling the people he doesn't give a crap what they think or what they want, for Obama to ask the people to call their representatives and demand that they compromise - knowing, even as he asks them to make the calls, that "compromise" is Obama-speak for "screwing the great unwashed" - well, it's worse than "unmitigated gall."  Diabolical?  Machiavellian?  It may not be all the way there yet, but it's definitely not benign.

    This pattern?  It continues until we find a way to break it, and I don't think it's overstating things to say that lives depend on it.


    Gee, have people been lying (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 07:13:14 AM EST
    to us about how high our taxes are?

    This year's federal tax revenues are forecast to equal 14.4 percent of gross domestic product, a broad measure of economic output, according to the Office of Management and Budget.

    That's the lowest share since 1950, long before Congress approved expensive programs such as Medicare. Tax collections have been reduced by the recession and by tax cuts enacted in 2001 and 2003. Among 29 countries ranked by the Organization for Economic Development and Cooperation, only Japan and Spain take in less tax revenue than the U.S. as a percentage of GDP.

    When it comes to health care, the U.S. spends the equivalent of 17.4 percent of its GDP -- by far the highest percentage among wealthy nations. The next highest is the Netherlands, where health care spending equals 12 percent of GDP. Among the 34 wealthy countries that belong to the OECD, health care spending averages less than 9.5 percent of GDP. link

    These millionaire f&%^s are willing to (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by tigercourse on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 08:22:13 AM EST
    destory this country over a couple thousand dollars. A COUPLE THOUSAND DOLLARS! Forget soaking the rich, we barely even wanted to give them a spritz. GE doesn't pay any taxes!

    I... hate everything.


    Did GE pay U.S. income taxes in 2010? Yes, it paid estimated taxes for 2010, and also made payments for previous years. Think of it as your having paid withholding taxes on your salary in 2010, and sending the IRS a check on April 15, 2010, covering your balance owed for 2009.

    Will GE ultimately pay U.S. income taxes for 2010? After much to-ing and fro-ing -- the company says it hasn't completed its 2010 tax return -- GE now says that it will pay tax.

    Wow. (none / 0) (#63)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 12:20:14 PM EST
    I want to get this news out.

    Condensed version... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 08:12:00 AM EST
    of Senate Select Committee on Intelligence transcript.

    Senator: You guys have the authority to track the movements of Americans?

    NSA Lawyer: Homina Homina Homina...

    They Can Track Phones... (none / 0) (#22)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 08:55:59 AM EST
    ... not actual human beings, which is old news.

    I could care less.  What sort of information is gained by knowing where, and I'm just guessing, 100 million cell phones are coming from and going to ?

    Like watching ants.

    The thing that seems odd to me, the people they really want and need to track, know this and certainly not using a traceable phone or even a phone at all.


    I hear ya... (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 08:58:53 AM EST
    not gonna lose any sleep or anything...but that don't make it right boss.

    I just don't wanna get my bush doctor busted:)


    Well My Man (none / 0) (#46)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:15:10 AM EST
     ... you might want to stop commenting about it daily in an open forum, if that's your concern.

    What I would like to know is at what point that information used.  We have this ability, do they ever use it for good, say when someone has disappeared ?  If I am abducted, can I toss the cell under say my car seat with the hope that they are actually watching/tracking my phone ?  Do we pull suspected criminals past & present whereabouts, or it is strictly for secret purposes ?

    Because to me, if the ability is there, then it's being recorded.  So they find a body in no mans land, seems like finding who's been there would be quit beneficial.


    Touche... (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:27:32 AM EST
    only kidding around really, I am confident my arse don't rate to keep tabs on...sh*t if I do rate we're in much deeper trouble than I could possibly imagine.

    I don't think all law enforcement, even federal, have the anywhere near the goods and capabilities the NSA has, and the NSA don't give two sh*ts about a kidnapping or murder.  Now if you or I started a revolutionary group of some sort, then I think they'd be accessing the illegal info.


    Private prisons get paid by the (none / 0) (#51)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:29:31 AM EST
    bodies... write your legislator to make sure NYC doesn't go that route!

    Been thinking about (none / 0) (#47)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:17:17 AM EST
    writing on the myth of privacy... if y'all don't see one in a couple of days, please remind me!

    Another well played and 5... (none / 0) (#114)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 04:13:02 PM EST
    you are on a roll today!
    Boss: Sorry, Luke. I'm just doing my job. You gotta appreciate that.
    Luke: Nah - calling it your job don't make it right, Boss.

    Captain, Road Prison 36: You gonna get used to wearin' them chains afer a while, Luke. Don't you never stop listenin' to them clinking. 'Cause they gonna remind you of what I been saying. For your own good.
    Luke: Wish you'd stop bein' so good to me, cap'n.

    Cap'n Obama, wish you'd stop bein' so good to me!


    It's still irritating, (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 02:56:23 PM EST
    though you're right about trying to track ants.  BTW, is there any way they can track a phone that's turned off (I mean, when your phone is off, is it really "off"-off)?  I would think not, but who knows, nowadays?  Because my phone is pretty much always off unless I want to make a call, or am expecting a call.  

    Remove the battery to avoid tracking. (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 03:03:34 PM EST
    The late great Ben Mazel told me that even if the phone is "off" it still pings towers. You have to take out the battery to avoid Big Brother.

    This is one of the reasons I'll never have an iPhone-- battery cannot be removed.


    Thanks, casey (none / 0) (#98)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 03:11:45 PM EST
    Good to know.  If I get too paranoid, I may just do that.  I have an older phone, and the battery is easy to remove.

    I may start doing that on a semi-regular basis (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 04:05:52 PM EST
    just because.

    I take out the battery on (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 06:08:24 PM EST
    occasion just because it annoys me to no end that, even if the government is not specifically tracking me, they could and for no good reason.

    It p!sses me off.


    I take my battery out whenever the phone (none / 0) (#143)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 06:18:29 PM EST
    is misbehaving.  Why?  Because whenever I ask the ATT staff at the handy walk in store, their first question is, did you take the battery out?

    Ah! So essentially, (none / 0) (#147)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 06:28:24 PM EST
    the phone may need occasional "rebooting," just as our computers and routers do.  Interesting, and not surprising.  Thanks for the "heads up," oculus.

    It works. I don't need to pester (none / 0) (#148)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 06:30:12 PM EST
    those handsome young guys anymore.  

    Somebody call the EEOC... (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 08:27:05 AM EST
    found our TSA smoking gun...gross violation of equal employment opportunity.  Of course a one handed man can make it to second base same as a two handed TSA groper.

    If they can nail Capone on tax evasion, surely we can nail the TSA on this.  Better raise the debt ceiling a few extra bucks at the least...settlement due here.

    Remember "Bong Hits 4 Jesus"? (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 08:49:42 AM EST
    Got a NYC panhandler version...and the NYPD is routinely violating his first amendment rights.

    Rock on Weed Man...got half a sawbuck for ya next time I see ya.  Just keep rockin' your sign.

    "Help a cracker out", I guess you do what you gotta do make yourself stand out. I always give a few bucks to whoever, but we've gotten to the point here where there is a guy or girl standing at every intersection. Tough times.

    Indeed... (none / 0) (#29)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 10:21:38 AM EST
    panhandling, our new growth sector.

    I appreciate a little flair and creativity...and the honesty!


    Panhandling has exploded around here (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by republicratitarian on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 10:33:45 AM EST
    I'm thinking it might be time to do a little volunteering for the homeless.

    FLA right? (none / 0) (#35)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 10:43:41 AM EST
    I remember always seeing panhandlers at my I-95 exit...and that was during the Clinton "good times".  

    I always say if I wind up homeless, I'm heading back to FLA...might starve but never freeze.


    Yeah sunny Florida (none / 0) (#116)
    by republicratitarian on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 04:40:26 PM EST
    I'm actually going to be in your neck of the woods next week for a few days, wish I had some free time to visit. I've never been to New York.

    Next time holmes... (none / 0) (#131)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 05:17:08 PM EST
    good week too, Big Audio Dynamite 8/3.

    And so far (none / 0) (#113)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 04:09:48 PM EST
    it's tax free, making it a very profitable venture with very little upfront capital needed for start up.

    Pipe down you... (none / 0) (#124)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 04:58:22 PM EST
    next it'll be panhandlers and teachers make too much money.

    Actually I have seen stories like that:(  


    Csreer opportunity for the adventurous: (none / 0) (#144)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 06:20:01 PM EST
    The first time I saw "Weed Man" (none / 0) (#30)
    by vml68 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 10:26:56 AM EST
    I thought his sign was a joke. I have seen him a few more times since then but have not contributed to his cause. I know I have fallen from grace in your eyes but it was kinda hard to take him seriously.

    To each their own charitable style V... (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 10:36:12 AM EST
    I've given to the guy with the "wanna buy a drink and get a hooker" sign, not sure if I ever ran into Weed Man specifically. Just don't bullsh*t me, thats all I ask.  I got no problem funding vice...funding war, law enforcement, and prisons otoh:)

    I contributed to a guy with a (none / 0) (#38)
    by vml68 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 10:48:44 AM EST
    "Will work for fruits" sign. I was very curious about his need for fruits in particular but decided it would be rude to ask him about it.

    New evidence points to stolen 2004 election (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Dadler on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 10:03:07 AM EST
    You know, Nazis have been hunted for (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by observed on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 10:40:46 AM EST
    over 60 years, but in the US, everything has to be forgiven or forgotten (Ford pardon, Bush I Contra whitewashing, etc.).
    Justice requires unrelenting dedication towards finding the truth.

    Only if you're... (none / 0) (#39)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 10:49:17 AM EST
    an inner party member.  

    A prole who commits a crime, or even a non-crime?  Bet your arse you'll pay if ya ever get pinched.  Different Rules Different Fools 101.


    No question TPTB who (none / 0) (#41)
    by brodie on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 10:56:01 AM EST
    control our MSM still have the power to almost dictate what can be discussed openly and what is taboo.  What's worse however is when some on the left enable this Stalinist attempt at suppressing speech by placing fact-based and sound but inconvenient, anti-official views into the category of "loony conspiracy theories" along with the most ridiculous CTs like the Faked Moon Landings and similar.

    The issues here are of free speech, justice and truth, and getting our own history right so our democracy is not erected on a false foundation of lies.


    these days we have to (none / 0) (#127)
    by jondee on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 05:06:42 PM EST
    wait for the "loony theory" to be substantiated by some press-release-reliant smart aleck who went straight from journalism school to the beltway. The Judy Millers of the world, in effect..

    I just listened to one of them the other day on NPR who was unembarrased to suggest that those who claim that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was intentionally distorted and exagerrated, were "conspiracy theorists".



    not surprising (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by sj on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 10:44:52 AM EST
    Not even shocking, but still depressing.  It's even hard to summon the outrage that I felt at the time.  

    This is something many (none / 0) (#37)
    by brodie on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 10:47:39 AM EST
    of us have suspected all along, and now it looks like more evidence is confirming it.

    Not that stories like this are going to get any traction at all in the MSM or outside of some liberal blogs.  Even the biggest Dem blog of them all, DKos -- where this story was briefly the subject of a diary or two -- censors diaries that suggest that election was stolen and those who post in favor of such views are subject to banning.


    the explanation (none / 0) (#70)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 01:14:44 PM EST
    for the pusillanimity at DKos is right in the text of your comment:

    Even the biggest Dem blog of them all, DKos

    always remember that a Dem blog, & particularly a Democratic Party blog like DKos, is almost the farthest thing from a liberal or progressive or leftist blog


    Dkos had a dog (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 01:20:05 PM EST
    in that fight, also. It endorsed Obama early on.

    Well the proper context here (none / 0) (#80)
    by brodie on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 01:39:14 PM EST
    is a Dem candidate getting an election stolen from him and those Dems and others who voted for him.  It's not really as question of liberalness or leftiness, but a matter of a major Dem-centric blog, which holds itself out as standing up for Dem principles and worthy Dem pols in addition to backing them financially, deciding to make taboo any open discussion of Bush stealing it from Kerry.  Very strange, imo.

    But as for your remarks, isn't TalkLeft a Dem blog?  And isn't the political profile here rather more liberal or lefty than centrist or DLC?  Of course it is (minus, naturally, the several openly conservative regulars here, plus a few other curious types who don't really convince as liberals or Dems).

    How about DemocraticUnderground (a site I only occasionally read), isn't that another Dem blog which has a mostly liberal-left profile?   Both DU and TL come to mind as Dem-oriented blogs where discussion of such topics isn't verbotten as with DKos.


    TL is not a self-identified Democratic blog (none / 0) (#92)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 02:40:58 PM EST
    TL is a blog about the politics of crime

    it does include a lot of commentary from centrist to left-of-center Dems & left-leaning independents but it is not specifically aligned with the Democratic Party

    whereas DKos is:

    This is a Democratic blog, a partisan blog. . . . But it's not a liberal blog. It's a Democratic blog with one goal in mind: electoral victory.

    so i assume that at DKos they believe that the path to "electoral victory" entails not making waves about stolen elections (see Democratic Party, Florida, 2000)

    i thought my comment quite specifically addressed the "proper context" of yours - don't know why you think it didn't


    Yes of course TL's primary (none / 0) (#103)
    by brodie on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 03:25:45 PM EST
    mission is to be a crime blog on the left, but the owner here has stated clearly it's also a blog in support of Dem candidates and causes (at least to the extent they do not conflict starkly with the major blog mission) and also that this is not a blog to promote GOP candidates/causes.  Its not officially aligned with the Dem Pty obviously, just sympatico generally with it.  It's got an overwhelmingly lib-to-lefty slant, with occasional exceptions as noted.  Ditto DU (last I checked, and I check only infrequently).  

    Again, both are liberal- and Dem-oriented blogs and both allow the type of discussion censored by the heavy hands toiling for the subcommandante over at DK.

    I'm also not sure (too lazy to go over and track down Kos' latest on verbotten CT topics) what explains Kos' aversion to discussing the dark side of the official 2004 election results, but that possibility is not the only CT he forbids and the other areas of discussion he suppresses wouldn't seem to have much to do with "electoral victory" except in a very hypersensitive, indirect way.  

    And in any case, there shouldn't be censorship of the truth or what could reasonably be the truth, and failing to address this area, and thus get on top of it for future elections, might well lead to a presumed undesirable outcome:  electoral defeat.


    ok (none / 0) (#108)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 03:47:57 PM EST
    were you disagreeing with me about something? asking me a question?

    i don't quite understand why you are telling me all these things (in your previous comment too)


    Never mind -- I think (none / 0) (#115)
    by brodie on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 04:15:02 PM EST
    we're talking past each other at this point.

    My major point here was re the DK policy on forbidding "CT theories".   Just saying it's not just the MSM but some on our own side (but not all -- as specified) who prevent the truth from emerging.


    Yes TalkLeft supports (none / 0) (#157)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 12:26:47 AM EST
    Democrats. It always has.

    Offering up a moniker for (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 10:55:26 AM EST
    the president-- Zaphod Bebblebrox. Taken from Douglas Addams' "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy."

    Here's the money quote from Wikipedia:

    He was briefly the President of the Galaxy (a role that involves no power whatsoever, and merely requires the incumbent to attract attention so no one wonders who's really in charge, a role for which Zaphod was perfectly suited)...

    Interview of Jesse Norman. Last (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:01:58 AM EST
    six paragraphs are her take on the status of women. LAT

    TY oculus...Money quote: (none / 0) (#43)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:06:41 AM EST
    "It is still more likely that a woman's power would be seen as aggression, and a man's power would be seen as assertion," Norman says. "A person has the right, and I think the responsibility, to develop all of their talents. And if part of that talent is leadership, then I think that should be applauded, rather than questioned -- or have it be said, 'That person is acting too much like a man.'"

    Too true. Still the same in most interpersonal dynamics as well. Women still learn to submit... for instance, when getting interrupted in a conversation.

    It took years of study for me to notice I did/do that myself. I'm conscious of it now, and I always apologize when I catch myself-- still learning.  Male privilege.


    Hey, Jeff, a FB "friend" posted (none / 0) (#57)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:54:15 AM EST
    Steve Jobs graduation speech at Stanford.  Not sure what year.  Anyhow, it is at ted.com.  I didn't listen yet but read the info and thought of you.  

    The entire (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 12:45:36 PM EST
    speech inspires, and boy, the third of his three points resonates with me.

    I'm coming up with a bucket list just in case. It involves meeting people like you, Jeralyn, Armando, Casey, Kdog, MT, Jim, ABG, and others...

    Funny how I want to meet my friends face to face if it's my time, instead of skiing or a big party, or such. I'd rather spend the time having philosophical discussions and political arguments with my friends. Heck, my friends help me re-make myself every day, and I do the same for them.

    Notice I put ABG on the list-- I think we often talk past each other because of our focus, but I want to reassure him I respect him as a person even when I disrespectfully reply to his comments. Same goes for almost everyone. I ain't a saint, so I can't say loddy doddy and everybody!


    Name the time and place, jeff, and I will (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 03:39:39 PM EST
    do my damnedest to get there. My only request is that you try to find someplace cheap as I have exactly no money.

    I'm coming out there, (none / 0) (#152)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 10:46:47 PM EST
    Only place I've been on the west coast was San Diego. Flew in, boarded a COD, and then went as a civilian/military (accorded rank, not pay) to the Saipan to lecture on Iraqi land mines.

    Some things are hard to forget. Hope I saved some feet.


    You are welcome anytime, Jeff. (none / 0) (#153)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 10:59:00 PM EST
    I love the west coast. I particularly love Oregon. It's a beautiful place.

    If you're well enough when you come we'll go hiking in the Columbia River Gorge. And you do know, don't you, that Portland is known as "Beervana" because of the many, many micro-breweries and brewpubs here.

    Also, Portland sits at the confluence of the Willamette and Columbia Rivers, which means there are a whole lot of boats around these parts. We could, maybe, do some scouting around for a suitable pirate ship.

    About the land mines-- anyone who does anything to try to limit the damage done by land mines is a  mensch in my book. So, good on you.


    Casey, the down side to that... (none / 0) (#155)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:07:48 PM EST
    I became an expert in working with them, creating minefields, etc., long before I began to teach the methods of how to avoid them. Ah well, come the revolution, I'll buy you a new hat.

    don't skip Oaktown (none / 0) (#154)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:01:45 PM EST
    i will put you up

    you & the whole damn pirate crew


    Y'all have to help me with left coast (none / 0) (#156)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:08:52 PM EST

    and give me till the new years'.


    Interesting. I figure you'll finally get (none / 0) (#66)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 12:51:27 PM EST
    to NY to meet kdog and I'll just happen to be in Manhattan.  Hope so.  

    WE've got to make it to AC (none / 0) (#67)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 12:53:05 PM EST
    or-- I think it's Foxwoods. K? which one? I know we'll be hitting Belmont, right? I know NOTHING about the ponies...

    Hmmm. Guess I won't see you two at the (none / 0) (#68)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 12:55:27 PM EST
    opera.  Although kdog made it to BAM with Ruffian and me.  

    I 'll go, there's only so much (none / 0) (#69)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 01:03:07 PM EST
    poker one can play. Well, actually, that's incorrect...there's a set limit to what I'm willing to lose, and opera tickets aren't cheap... not letting one of those go to waste, especially if it's a Mozart comedic opera or Verdi... I love Wagner's orchestral parts, but four hours of that heavy Germanic Ring Series? makes my rear tingly just thinking about it...

    Since you know the operas, you pick, though (I do consider Porgy and Bess an opera, though).

    Summertime, Ella and Louis.


    I love Porgy and Bess. (none / 0) (#77)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 01:36:05 PM EST
    Porgy and Bess at the Seattle Opera (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by shoephone on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 02:25:33 PM EST
    starting tomorrow. Goes through August 20. Get'cher tickets now!!

    Love the name "Angel Blue." Don't (none / 0) (#94)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 02:50:16 PM EST
    miss Patricia Raccette as Butterfly.  She owns this role.  

    Either Or.... (none / 0) (#71)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 01:19:28 PM EST
    AC or Foxwoods, I prefer AC for more casino options and the beach for swimming & distraction (in season) if ya go busto.  Go busto at Foxwoods and there is nothing to do, and there is no worse place on earth to be busto than a casino, torture the Geneva Convention should have outlawed:)

    Ponies depends on which meet is running...right now we'd be taking a 5 hour drive up to glorious Saratoga, the oldest race track in America.  Such a special place, decor straight outta the  1800's, like going back in time.  I hope to convince the special lady to hit the Spa with me after our camping/Midnight Ramble at Levon's excursion before heading back to LI. Maybe her brand of Lady Luck will finally deliver a winning Pick-6. Saratoga is notorious for it's big prices, longshot central.

    Aside from the Spa meet, it's either Belmont or Aqueduct.  Big Sandy is also beautiful, Aqueduct is a dump.


    I'll make sure to wear my (none / 0) (#73)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 01:25:58 PM EST
    George Costanza yellow cloth windbreaker, and Bermuda shorts, black socks, and sandals.

    That look work for the ponies and the subway? ;-)

    I'm jonesing for a dirty water dog right now, too.


    Definitely works... (none / 0) (#83)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 01:44:56 PM EST
    as track bum attire...be nice to have somebody else under 70 with me:) One bright side to the vast decline in the sports popularity is ya can burn one pretty much anywhere you want at Belmont and the Big A.  Saratoga otoh still packs them in...the summer "thing to do" in that region of Upstate NY.

    Subway? Not so much, but this is NY, there is always someone odder than you boarding at the next stop:)

    Got a linky for you, money quote...

    "They may know a lot about cancer.
    They don't know a lot about me."

    Guess I won't get to go to Saratoga w/ (none / 0) (#84)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 01:52:42 PM EST
    you two!

    Any Oculus (none / 0) (#85)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 02:00:26 PM EST
    Summer High-Brow Series Events in NY 8/23-8/27?  

    I am out of "clicks" at NYT (none / 0) (#86)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 02:06:43 PM EST
    until Aug. 1.  

    Here's my routine though:

    Carnegie Hall (probably dark)
    Lincoln Center
    Le Poisson Rouge (alternative venue--way south--very fun)
    NYT reviews of current plays (you'd like "Jerusalem" and "Man With the Motherf*cking Hat."  "Book of Mormon" is entertaining but really expensive.
    Joyce Theatre (re contemporary dance)


    It's (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by lentinel on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 07:56:29 PM EST
    odd that they won't let you just subscribe to NYT.com - you have to have all these other devices and doohickees which brings up the price to a tohellwithit level.

    Thanks... (none / 0) (#87)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 02:21:03 PM EST
    gonna stay away from plays I think, language barrier, but I'd like to sprinkle in something besides my normal bag.

    Will be interesting to see what (none / 0) (#88)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 02:23:00 PM EST
    you find and select.  

    First up... (5.00 / 3) (#91)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 02:36:55 PM EST
    upon our return from upstate is Tito Rojas for some free salsa...orale.

    Key word "free", this ain't Mexico, gotta stretch 'dem dollars..."mi amor, tu quieres comer franks and beans"? ja ja ja


    I have to meet this guy, (none / 0) (#151)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 08:20:33 PM EST
    I will find a way to send him a letter. He's my kind of guy.

    OK. I just listened to Jobs. (none / 0) (#78)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 01:37:34 PM EST
    Powerful stuff.  Didn't know he was adopted.  

    Query:  if tomorrow were the last day of my life, would I regret spending so much time on TL today?  


    For me, no, unless it means (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 01:41:58 PM EST
    putting off taking my son (napping now) to the playground.

    Next interview is schedule for Aug. 4. (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by observed on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:07:49 AM EST
    NOW  I'm nervous.

    Don't be a smily American, (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:14:06 AM EST
    unless you're being interviewed by US people. I forgot to mention this... People from the former USSR have a different viewpoint on jobs and interviews.

    This is for business. Demonstrate you are serious. Smiles and anecdotal personal information? avoid it. That type of relationship gets built outside of work, even with co-workers. Folks may appear cold, but it's the public face, not the private face.

    You'll do fine! Invite me over to visit and pay for my ticket in 6-9 months... j/k!


    Thanks for that tip. I'll have to keep (none / 0) (#49)
    by observed on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:26:03 AM EST
    it in mind. I do sometimes get smiley when I'm nervous. The interview will consist of a  teaching sample of 20-30 minutes, and then probably the rest of the hour they will ask me questions.

    And don't get chatty. (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:51:36 AM EST
    We were warned by civilians about "hooliganism" when we were having a good time on the Moscow subway.  However, this was in 1983!

    Oh, yes, big deal, even (none / 0) (#56)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:54:08 AM EST
    in the interview! Don't be Jack Webb, "Just the facts, Ma'am," be detailed in the explanations. Just don't crack wise. I've been in US interviews that were laid back and full of jokes.

    I doubt the Kazakhs will act that way.


    We group interviewed a smart *ass (none / 0) (#58)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:55:31 AM EST
    former ATF agent who didn't care for the questions so my boss asked him, heard any good jokes lately.  No, he didn't get the job.  

    Heh. (none / 0) (#60)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 12:02:34 PM EST
    My second favorite bunch of cowboys, right after DEA.

    Although they aren't jackbooted, like LaPierre said, ATF and DEA make up the slimy underside of law enforcement.
    I don't know why so many bullies go to these two agencies. Maybe because they were not hired by FBI, Treasury, Marshalls, Border Patrol, Customs, Park Police, etc.


    Bingo (none / 0) (#90)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 02:29:16 PM EST
    Excellent advice.  Never occurred to me to think about applying that difference to a job interview-- but I've never had a job interview in the former SU...

    I forget where I learned this... (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 04:57:31 PM EST
    I sincerely do, but it's not made up.

    If you have some time to kill (none / 0) (#48)
    by CST on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:25:40 AM EST
    in Pitt, check out flagstaff hill in schenley park or phipps conservatory at the bottom of the hill.  It's a great place to unwind with views of the city, and Phipps is gorgeous whether you're inside or out.  Not sure where you are interviewing, but it's right at the back side of the campus.

    Or for a really nice night out head up Mt. Washington and have dinner at the top of the Duquesne incline.  It's a bit pricy, but it's worth it for the views alone, and the food isn't half bad either.  Especially if you get the job :)


    Btw, I need travel tips. (none / 0) (#52)
    by observed on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:29:51 AM EST
    My flight will be reimbursed---that's not a problem. (Driving is out, unfortunately.  The problem is getting from SE Indiana to Pittsburgh without going to Seattle on the way (I'm exaggerating, but not much).
    I could leave from Dayton, Cinncinati or Indianapolis.
    I think I'll have to arrive on Aug. 3, which shouldn't be necessary, but it may be better to have a night to settle my mind anyway.

    I'd check (5.00 / 0) (#54)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:51:32 AM EST
    some of the commuter-type airlines that may not be on the big search engines... if all else fails and you get one of those 19 hour trips between SE Indiana and Pittsburgh, call a travel agency... sometimes, even often, they can help when 'the negotiators' fail.

    Or take a bus, but plan to arrive two days early, because bus trips can be exhausting.

    Please go to the restaurant that makes chipped ham and cheese and french fry sandwiches and have one for me... somebody help with the name, please!


    Primanti Brothers (none / 0) (#64)
    by CST on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 12:35:46 PM EST
    personally, not a big fan.  But to each his/her own.

    Check Southwest Airlines--they (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:56:49 AM EST
    aren't on Expedia etc.  

    Thanks, just booked on SW (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by observed on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 03:35:18 PM EST
    Not cheap, but half the price on Expedia.

    I googled Paul Theroux, who has (none / 0) (#61)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 12:07:36 PM EST
    been to your future country a couple times and written about it.  But I came up with this article.  Yes, there is an opera house--new and 1500 seats.  Bankok Post

    Yes, I saw that already. (none / 0) (#62)
    by observed on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 12:13:40 PM EST
    The new architecture is fabulous. Have you seen a picture of the Bayterek? The Palace of Peace and Reconciliation? That's for cross-religious understanding.

    Well, let's go to the doctor's office (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 01:30:18 PM EST
    today, and see what more bad news we can get... maybe latent VD or Hoof in Mouth Disease... heck, maybe just too many barnacles.

    This ought to be really fun. I'll update, since I'm living this online.

    More positive thoughts coming (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 01:38:46 PM EST
    your way.  

    Dragon Pox. (none / 0) (#111)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 04:04:51 PM EST
    At MY age, the doctor scoffed.

    I made this appointment with the family doc to discuss various issues concerning the cancer. The surgeon was neither friendly nor nice. I think he spent four minutes talking to me. Family doc took the time to answer all my questions, and when I asked "What didn't I ask?" he told me... I have a fantastic family doctor.

    But if he's a good cutter and leaves me my bits, I don't care if he kicks his hamster every night.

    I'm wondering WHEN I'll meet the oncologist. Maybe Tuesday.


    Good news, though, (5.00 / 2) (#117)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 04:45:11 PM EST
    doc said I was doing enough exercise to Not follow the cardio diet. As he said, "You're unemployed. you can walk on a treadmill at fat burning pace three hours a day or more if you want to."

    MAkes sense.


    Encouraging family M.D. will take the (none / 0) (#118)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 04:50:03 PM EST
    time to answer your questions.  Wonder what billing code covers that.  

    heh, whatever damm one he puts in, (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 04:59:32 PM EST
    we modified some prescriptions to twice dosage at my choice so I can use a pill cutter and double the amount of time between refills.

    If anyone asks, he did ask how I was feeling...


    Forgot to mention, (none / 0) (#128)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 05:08:17 PM EST
    doc sais to expect this to be one of the 'aggresive' prostate cancers, based on a number of factors. It's not a certainty, but a 400 percent increase in PSA in 6 months, plus palpable nodes...

    I hope my phobia of prostate cancer based on family issues (nonagressive) and friends who died in their early 50s (aggressive) and folks like Dennis Hopper, among others, got me there early enough for this to be easy-- or as easy as this procedure can be.


    Hmmm. Primary care physician (none / 0) (#137)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 05:59:14 PM EST
    doesn't mince words;  is that good?  

    He's amazingly frank, (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 06:25:35 PM EST
    but amazingly open. If something isn't working, he listens. HE also goes to a number of conferences especially in the hormone area. Apparently, a hormone he put me on 6 months ago has been demonstrated to slow significantly the spread of prostate cancer. Hope it's working on mine.

    Dan Peek of the band America (none / 0) (#3)
    by Wile ECoyote on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 06:32:50 AM EST
    Dead.  What a loss.  Lonely People, Horse with no name, Sister Golden Hair, Ventura Highway... RIP.  

    Sorry to hear that (none / 0) (#5)
    by ruffian on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 06:42:42 AM EST
    Sister Golden Hair is still a favorite, and I also loved 'Daisy Jane' back in the day. IIRC at one point 'America's Greatest Hits' was among the top selling albums of all time.

    We will hope the creator forgives him for 'Muskrat Love'.


    If so, then the Lord above (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Towanda on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 02:44:19 PM EST
    is far more forgiving than this humble servant below.

    If the Lord had sent Moses down the mountain with an 11th Commandment, it well might have been "Thou shalt respect all of my creatures, great and small, but thou shalt not get so ridiculous as to serenade certain rodent-like species with love songs."


    Hahahaha! (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 02:52:57 PM EST
    Thanks for the laugh, Towanda!

    ha! I could believe in such a god (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by ruffian on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 05:17:27 PM EST
    BTW, I was tres surprised at (none / 0) (#136)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 05:55:00 PM EST
    "Book of Mormon" the golden plates were not shaped like plates, but rather like tablets, a la the Ten Commandments.  

    Last line: funny. (none / 0) (#76)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 01:30:33 PM EST
    Krugman gets this part right (none / 0) (#7)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 06:54:16 AM EST
    The reality, of course, is that we already have a centrist president -- actually a moderate conservative president. Once again, health reform -- his only major change to government -- was modeled on Republican plans, indeed plans coming from the Heritage Foundation. And everything else -- including the wrongheaded emphasis on austerity in the face of high unemployment -- is according to the conservative playbook.

    What all this means is that there is no penalty for extremism; no way for most voters, who get their information on the fly rather than doing careful study of the issues, to understand what's really going on. link

    Reality (none / 0) (#18)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 08:26:03 AM EST

    "Financial analysts say such a move would hit Americans with more than $100 billion a year in higher borrowing costs, but it's not just that. It would be a psychic blow to a nation that already looks over its shoulder at rising economic powers like China and wonders, what's gone wrong? . . . . S&P raised the threat of a downgrade July 14 by declaring that raising the debt limit alone might not be enough. It wanted to see an enforceable agreement to cut $4 trillion over 10 years to affirm the triple-A rating."


    I don't think a clean bill would be a valid possibility even if we had the votes for it for this reason.  I believe we have to protect entitlements, but no longer think that avoiding spending cuts of any kind is a valid position, despite the unemployment numbers.

    If the credit rating gets hit, it will be bad I think. We have to stop that.

    Credit rating? (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Dadler on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 09:59:24 AM EST
    As determined by whom?  The criminal insider-trading enterprises like Moodys and S&P?  What a joke.  Stop enabling criminals, stop raising them to the level of sage.  Crooks are crooks are crooks, that you still look at them for ANYthing having to do with reality, good lord, come on man.

    Heck, when I get calls (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 01:40:06 PM EST
    from the folks I owe money to, they always threaten putting something negative on my credit report.

    After what I've been through the last three years, I reply, "Heck, is there any more room on that thing? I think you're gonna have to staple some more pages on there."


    American ordered--but not entirely (none / 0) (#34)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 10:40:46 AM EST
    Made in U.S.  link

    Closing this thread (none / 0) (#158)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 12:29:12 AM EST
    I'll start a new one.