Friday Open Thread

The news will have to wait for me today, so here's a place to discuss the day's news and other topics.

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    Herb Kohl is retiring (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by andgarden on Fri May 13, 2011 at 12:40:02 PM EST
    and the first thing I though of was that Ben Masel won't be around to give us the lay of the land--or to disabuse me of my notion that Tammy Baldwin might run.

    Had that same thought, along with (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Anne on Fri May 13, 2011 at 12:51:09 PM EST
    missing Cream City, who, as I recall, was not a big Herb Kohl fan.

    In the prior open thread, I mused whether the likely matchup might be Feingold v. Ryan (unless, of course, Ryan is thinking he might end up on a GOP 2012 ticket, perhaps as VP), and nycstray replied that she has already gotten a "Draft Russ Feingold" e-mail from 21st Century Dems.

    Paul Ryan in the Senate, where he could continue his anti-entitlement shtick, would definitely not be a good thing; as I said in that prior thread, "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" is what comes to mind...


    I think (none / 0) (#3)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 13, 2011 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    Ryan knows that the jig is up for him. He's apparently trying to ram a ton of stuff through before the recall elections.

    Wait - there's an effort underway to (none / 0) (#59)
    by Anne on Fri May 13, 2011 at 04:26:20 PM EST
    recall Paul Ryan from Congress?

    Are you sure you don't mean Scott Walker?

    Paul Ryan is Mr. Privatize Medicare; Scott Walker is - hmmm - what's the unofficial title I'm looking for...oh, yeah, I can't put that here without violating the rules...oh, well, this is an imaginative group - we'll think of something appropriate.


    I meant (none / 0) (#99)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun May 15, 2011 at 02:53:54 PM EST
    Walker. Sorry same state and party but different people.

    George Mitchell is resigning (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Politalkix on Fri May 13, 2011 at 01:10:41 PM EST
    This is not good. link

    Giving The Howler his due (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by ruffian on Fri May 13, 2011 at 02:10:11 PM EST
    Daily Howler has been pretty funny this week regarding the press and Newt Gingrich, and Alan Simpson. I really appreciate the Howler's long memory and incomparable archives.

    The beauty of bipartisanship (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by MO Blue on Fri May 13, 2011 at 02:49:59 PM EST
    It subverts accountability.

    This was the year after the bipartisan agreement between Reagan and O'Neill raised the retirement age for Social Security. I do not exaggerate when I say I was not asked about it a single solitary time. Not once in the course of a whole race. And the reason was that they did it together. When you do something together, the result is that it's not usable in the election. I think there's an understanding that if there's a grand bargain, none of it will be usable in next year's election.

    McConnell wants a bipartisan "grand bargain" because that allows politicians to take unpopular actions that are in direct opposition to the will of the electorate. Since the two parties have rigged the system to stop other parties from being viable, as long as Democrats and Republicans do these terrible things together, they will pay no political price. link

    Son turns 11 tomorrow (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by Dadler on Fri May 13, 2011 at 04:28:16 PM EST
    Big week.  First he plays the anthem at the Giants game, then hits the double toothpicks on Saturday.  Tonight we're heading into the city for dinner at his current favorite joint, Cafe Bastille, for his current favorite (and artery clogging/hey, it's his birthday) dish, Hachis Parmentier, which is a fancy way of saying braised beef and mashed potato and cheese casserole.  Ungodly good.  

    Tomorrow it's off to Six Flags for the real birthday present -- which, for dad, translates into riding roller coasters until I can no longer stand and believe my head to soon become detached from my spine.  Good times, good times.  You know, it's for the kids.


    Sounds like a great weekend, capping off (none / 0) (#62)
    by Anne on Fri May 13, 2011 at 04:37:59 PM EST
    a great week; I'm pretty sure your son won't forget the week he turned 11!

    Have fun on the rollercoaster - not a fan, myself - hate heights, which pretty much kills it for me!


    It is fun the first two or three times (none / 0) (#63)
    by Dadler on Fri May 13, 2011 at 04:54:53 PM EST
    After that, oh lord, it's hang on and hope.  Big fear of heights here, as well, as with sonny boy, but he doesn't seem bothered at all on a coaster.  Put him up on a tenth floor balcony, or just looking over the edge of the escalator at the mall, and he's toast.  Oh to be a kid and have my phobias select out for fun.

    Have a good weekender yourself.


    Obama says, "Drill, baby, drill!" (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Yman on Sat May 14, 2011 at 08:15:58 AM EST

    hmmm . . . . (none / 0) (#93)
    by nycstray on Sat May 14, 2011 at 11:59:22 AM EST
    "We plan to lease new areas in the Gulf of Mexico as well, and work to create new incentives for industry to develop their unused leases both on and offshore," Obama said.

    they need incentives?


    Justuce Stevens -unplugged (none / 0) (#4)
    by jbindc on Fri May 13, 2011 at 01:07:03 PM EST
    bin laden killing "appropriate"

    "It was not merely to do justice and avenge Sept. 11," but "to remove an enemy who had been trying every day to attack the United States," Justice Stevens said at a dinner in Chicago, according to former Stevens law clerk Diane Amann, a University of Georgia professor who attended the dinner, which capped a Northwestern University symposium on the justice's jurisprudence.


    "I have not the slightest doubt that it was entirely appropriate for U.S. forces to do," Justice Stevens said, according to Ms. Amann's account.

    Kind of puts a damper on the survivors (none / 0) (#7)
    by oculus on Fri May 13, 2011 at 01:12:04 PM EST
    possible civil lawsuits.  

    Minor quibble... (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Fri May 13, 2011 at 01:25:59 PM EST
    how does one try and attack the US "every day" while locked in a Pakistani town home...telepathy?  Simple wishful thinking?

    Rumor is it wasn't 24 hours a day, every day, so we had that going for us...they we're taking pron breaks over at Chez Osama.

    Pron, ED drugs, and a reefer garden?  Are we sure Osama wasn't still CIA, only in deep deep cover?  He sounds American to me:)


    Would you like to have had a jt. w/ObL? (none / 0) (#11)
    by oculus on Fri May 13, 2011 at 01:27:24 PM EST
    I'd imagine... (none / 0) (#17)
    by kdog on Fri May 13, 2011 at 01:49:50 PM EST
    AQ isn't bound by the equal employment opportunity act, they can discriminate based on my peace-loving agnosticism:)

    I'd be hard pressed to turn down a pro spliff rolling gig from any outfit, gotta be honest...Keith Richards once employed one, talk about a sweet gig!  

    And I already fund mayhem and murder via my federal income taxes...so in a couple degrees of seperation I already fund terrorism:(


    Oh you meant a joint.... (none / 0) (#18)
    by kdog on Fri May 13, 2011 at 01:57:54 PM EST
    my fault, how did I see job?

    You'll never change anybody's mind by refusing to break lamb's bread with them...and I'm open-mided and reasonable, but not weak-willed...he'd never turn me to the dark side.  I see no harm in it, and a longshot potential gain....or maybe I speak to freely:)


    He wouldn't have been interested (none / 0) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 13, 2011 at 02:57:36 PM EST
    in changing your mind.

    Removing your head, yes.


    Really? (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by kdog on Fri May 13, 2011 at 03:06:38 PM EST
    A couple westerners did sit and interview him, and returned to the west with their heads intact.

    It takes courage to try and make peace...and I think I coulda outrun him and a cutlass, if not a bullet.


    The problem is (none / 0) (#64)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 13, 2011 at 05:02:33 PM EST
    you don't work for CNN as Peter Arnett did at the time of the 3/97 interview.

    You might want to check with Pearl and Berg for some tips on what not to do!


    BTW - If you come down for the game, bring your water wings! The check-in lobby is under 9' feet of water.


    ya know what, I bet OBL would pay (none / 0) (#20)
    by ruffian on Fri May 13, 2011 at 01:59:39 PM EST
    you in cash too. Oh, the missed opportunities!

    The way this convo is headed... (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by kdog on Fri May 13, 2011 at 02:10:10 PM EST
    is making me uncomfortable:)

    Attention government monitor...I am never to be taken too seriously, and God Bless America and Everyplace Else!


    Those were the days (none / 0) (#21)
    by mmc9431 on Fri May 13, 2011 at 02:03:25 PM EST
    You should have been in the Army during the Viet Nam era! You could get high just walking through the barracks. Between drinking and drugs many found a way to escape at every opportunity.

    With the way things are going now, I could use a little escape again. Too bad the economy has tanked to the point that the little luxeries in life have gone by the wayside.


    Yeah... (none / 0) (#23)
    by kdog on Fri May 13, 2011 at 02:07:50 PM EST
    last time gas and heating oil went nuts I had to switch to regs for awhile...brutal.

    But in my household budget this item is under necessity right under food and rent, push comes to shove the light bill is luxury:)


    Interesting (none / 0) (#16)
    by andgarden on Fri May 13, 2011 at 01:46:00 PM EST
    Worth reading this in that context.

    Ms. Amann is unusually forthcoming (none / 0) (#75)
    by oculus on Fri May 13, 2011 at 08:44:10 PM EST
    re what Justice Stevens may have desired to remain private, i.e., thoughts he expressed in private to which she was privy as his law clerk.

    "Operation Hoodwink", Update (none / 0) (#6)
    by KeysDan on Fri May 13, 2011 at 01:11:12 PM EST
    NYT (April 13): Secretary Gates said that the air offensive had cost the Pentagon $750 million so far, more than originally expected for a conflict that Mr. Gates said he had never imagined the US would enter. "If you'd asked me four months ago if we'd be in Libya today, I would have asked , 'What are you smoking?', said Gates to Marines at Camp Lejune.  

    In news from the "rebels", interim Prime Minister of the Transitional National Council of the Libyan Republic, expresses concern that the lives of too many innocent Libyans have been lost, and his Council condemns the killing of non-combatant Qaddafi loyalists.  However, he is asking the Obama Administration to officially recognize his Council, accelerate access to frozen Libyan assets since he desperately needs money. sustain humanitarian aid , and intensify NATO operations. (NYT op ed, May 13).

    I'm still asking him what he is (none / 0) (#30)
    by ruffian on Fri May 13, 2011 at 02:39:09 PM EST
    smoking. $750 million? How is that even possible?

    I bet Ghaddaffi would have 'retired' for (none / 0) (#31)
    by ruffian on Fri May 13, 2011 at 02:40:46 PM EST
    $100 million, and lots of people would still be alive, cities would not be in rubble, and refugees would not be drowning by the hundreds.

    Yeah but... (none / 0) (#34)
    by kdog on Fri May 13, 2011 at 02:53:18 PM EST
    how is GE and Boeing gonna get there end?  How we gonna expend and replenish weapons stockpiles?

    I mean if ya just buy and never use you run out of warehouse space eventually.


    What about the Deficit? (none / 0) (#56)
    by mmc9431 on Fri May 13, 2011 at 04:15:49 PM EST
    And still no one in DC is screaming. All I've heard for two years is "we're broke". Teachers, police, social services, everything has to go. We have no money for this waste.

    True to form, there's never a shortage of money for bombs.

    When they finish cutting the waste of all of these selective wars, then come talk to me about the additional cuts needed.


    Just another one of those (none / 0) (#73)
    by MO Blue on Fri May 13, 2011 at 08:38:28 PM EST
    "Who could have known" situations.

    ...Mr. Gates said he had never imagined the US would enter. "If you'd asked me four months ago if we'd be in Libya today, I would have asked , 'What are you smoking?'  

    Funny how the powers that be never know something when many of their lessers predicted the outcome in advance or at the time of their taking the action.



    Another Reason (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by mmc9431 on Fri May 13, 2011 at 08:41:19 PM EST
    Why war or military action or whatever they want to call it this season should be made harder to get into. Definitely not easier.

    I think the current buzzword is (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by MO Blue on Fri May 13, 2011 at 09:22:34 PM EST
    "kinetic military action."

    The definition for that type of action is to throw away huge amounts of money on useless military actions which have no end.  


    I don't know whether to laugh or cry (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Anne on Fri May 13, 2011 at 08:46:02 PM EST
    that the SecDef - presumably someone who has access to the most timely information possible - is expressing wonderment about where things are now.

    There's something to be said, I guess, for being out here some distance from the "action," and not having our noses so smack up against the trees that we have no idea we are standing in the middle of the forest.

    These people seriously need to get out of the bubble more than they do.


    Liar liar pants on fire (none / 0) (#82)
    by mmc9431 on Fri May 13, 2011 at 09:12:32 PM EST
    I still remember being told that we'd have Iraq wrapped up in a month. Then they compounded the lie and said we'd make money in the process because of the oil prices!

    I do have my doubts about the volunteer military. It makes war so much easier for those that want it.


    "Days not weeks", that is to get (none / 0) (#90)
    by KeysDan on Sat May 14, 2011 at 08:03:29 AM EST
    started on the "humanitarian" war. (aka,  war that is to prevent a bloodbath).

    Does this LAT headline fairly (none / 0) (#8)
    by oculus on Fri May 13, 2011 at 01:15:35 PM EST
    represent the content of the article?

    Internet growth may be associated with spread of painkiller abuse


    Fair representation... (none / 0) (#14)
    by kdog on Fri May 13, 2011 at 01:35:08 PM EST
    of the article...I ain't buying any causation from that correlation though....reads like a drug war propaganda piece before another tyrannical pharmie crackdown of some sort.

    People have sought out highs for millenia...ordering online is simply a modern convenience way to score, and were it not possible pharmie fans would go see friendly Dr. Feelgood for a script, or patronize the street corner pharmacist like they did in 1992.

    The prohibitors give their prohibitions too much credit, they never stopped nobody from a buzz they had their heart set on...though they have made people pay through the nose for the buzz...in ozs of gold or lbs of flesh.


    Interesting side story... (none / 0) (#9)
    by kdog on Fri May 13, 2011 at 01:15:40 PM EST
    to the NYPD tix-fix probe...the DA has to try and avoid bringing any cop involved to the stand in the course of their normal prosecutions...couldn't be avoided in this case, and the defense attorney gave John Law hell, much to his annoyance...he even had the nerve to call inequality under the law a "common courtesy" on the stand!  

    I am really starting to enjoy this...never forget defense attorneys!  Hound them all for the next 20 years!  

    Cop should have sd. "professional (none / 0) (#12)
    by oculus on Fri May 13, 2011 at 01:28:03 PM EST

    In their racket/line of work... (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by kdog on Fri May 13, 2011 at 01:59:17 PM EST
    wouldn't it be more accurately called an unprofessional courtesy?

    Dude - give 'em a break on Sunday (none / 0) (#35)
    by jbindc on Fri May 13, 2011 at 02:53:42 PM EST
    Breaks? (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by kdog on Fri May 13, 2011 at 03:03:18 PM EST
    They've been giving themselves plenty of breaks!  Spread the break wealth!  

    btw whats a peace officer?  They sound cool, lets hire some:)

    btwx2...new beau already has you saying "dude"?  I love it!


    Peace Officer (none / 0) (#39)
    by jbindc on Fri May 13, 2011 at 03:11:56 PM EST
    local Police officer, state police officer, sherrif, federal agent, etc.

    316 names of fallen officers from the past year will be put on the wall here in DC. There are already 19,298 names engraved there.

    Here's something you might like...

    New beau has me doing and thinking things I never thought possible (although I did say "dude" before him!)


    Gold Star for you...q (none / 0) (#41)
    by kdog on Fri May 13, 2011 at 03:18:48 PM EST
    my prejudice exposed as the fool's errand it is...again:)  Constant struggle kid...constant struggle.

    Mad love for the anti-drug war cops, especially the ones practicing professional disobedience on the sly in this regard.


    I think many of them (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by jbindc on Fri May 13, 2011 at 03:52:18 PM EST
    are just tired of seeing their colleagues killed because some jack-a-ma-hole they are trying to subdue or arrest is hopped up on drugs and they have to arrest them. Especially because of the 162 officers killed in 2010, he average age was 41,the average length of their law enforcement service was nearly 12 years and on average each officer left behind 2 children.

    Well well well (none / 0) (#13)
    by Politalkix on Fri May 13, 2011 at 01:30:47 PM EST
    lots of porn found in the OBL hideout. link

    Not surprising (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by mmc9431 on Fri May 13, 2011 at 01:45:36 PM EST
    Look at all the "Good Christian" bible thumpers we have here that have been caught up in sex scandals.

    It much easier to preach than it is to practice. I would have thought that 3 or 4 wives hanging around would have been enough!


    Lots of Mormons doing research, I'm sure. (none / 0) (#60)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri May 13, 2011 at 04:26:53 PM EST
    I don't understand this comment. (none / 0) (#77)
    by oculus on Fri May 13, 2011 at 08:48:05 PM EST
    I believe Sarc is implying (none / 0) (#84)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri May 13, 2011 at 09:31:23 PM EST
    that a good Mormon (or even a Jack Mormon) would never be surfing the net for pron, so surely they are all doing Godly scholastic research--in their special underwear.

    I was happy to see that Book of Mormon has its road opening at the DCPA in December.  Matt and Trey both seem very happy about that too.  That will be a big deal (and a tough get) round these parts.  


    Ah. (I've got a ticket for B of M (none / 0) (#85)
    by oculus on Fri May 13, 2011 at 10:16:33 PM EST
    in July.  Sitting next to a very good friend who was raised Mormon.  Should be interesting.

    'Twas an attempt at a joke. (none / 0) (#100)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon May 16, 2011 at 04:19:10 PM EST
    Peter Townsend of The Who was busted years ago for child pron, and his defense was that he was doing "research."

    Anyway, I spent a good bit of time in Utah and S. Idaho among the LDS. The Mormons I met were amazingly open, kind and generous people.


    These stories just astound me (none / 0) (#22)
    by lilburro on Fri May 13, 2011 at 02:05:56 PM EST
    you would think that OBL indulging in Coke, Pepsi, pr0n and more would have some effect on the credibility of al-Qaeda in the Muslim world.  

    And then I remember it's a religious organization.  


    Isn't the reason young recruits are (5.00 / 0) (#78)
    by oculus on Fri May 13, 2011 at 08:49:22 PM EST
    willing to die on behalf of aQ is that people like ObL convinced them the U.S. culture is pernicious?

    So I've been made to understand. (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by lilburro on Sat May 14, 2011 at 01:25:11 AM EST
    Now is the time to unleash our top secret Dollar Menu campaign and get a few turncoats.  Hypothetically.

    I predict the next things they find... (none / 0) (#28)
    by Dadler on Fri May 13, 2011 at 02:31:34 PM EST
    ...will be a dog-eared copy of Atlas Shrugged, two cases of Coors Lite, and a Raiders hoodie.

    Oddly, these "finds" (provided they aren't just easy propaganda) should be encouraging in a way.  Rock 'n roll and blue jeans, after all (and so to speak), played a huge role in bringing down the iron curtain.  


    Oh, I don't know (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Zorba on Fri May 13, 2011 at 07:09:45 PM EST
    I agree with you, but I'd also add Silas Marner, Tess of the d'Urbervilles, and Wuthering Heights to the "most boring" list.  And, as Dadler said, Moby Dick.

    When I was in college, I had to read (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Anne on Fri May 13, 2011 at 07:37:14 PM EST
    a lot of George Eliot (Silas Marner, Middlemarch, Adam Bede, The Mill on the Floss); all I can say is it was a close call which was more boring - Eliot's novels or the anthropology course I took - force me to choose and I'd have to say that the anthropology course won by a nose - a very tiny nose.  A very bored, tiny nose.  Zzzzzzzz....

    Am yawning just thinking about it, lol.


    Most Americans who came along (none / 0) (#71)
    by brodie on Fri May 13, 2011 at 08:04:26 PM EST
    when I did got stuck having to read -- slog through actually -- Moby Dick in high school.  Much too early for most of us, yrs truly included.  And it didn't help that our English teacher, a nice but older fellow with an unfortunate soporific low-key voice, didn't exactly help bring the book to life.  All I could see was an unending sea of words, page after page, in which I always seemed to be just treading water for the longest time and never quite making it to shore.

    Wuthering Heights fortunately I was spared in all my schooling.  Saw the Larry Olivier movie though.  Pretty good stuff, if a bit weepy and hokey at times.


    Required reading of "Silas Marner" in (none / 0) (#80)
    by oculus on Fri May 13, 2011 at 08:53:53 PM EST
    high school:  boring.  I re-read it after seeing Steve Marin's movie take on the book.  Much more interesting and enjoyable and led me to read lots more George Elliott.

    Interesting I disagree with most of those (none / 0) (#96)
    by Rupe on Sat May 14, 2011 at 03:42:50 PM EST
    I haven't read Silas Marner, but Paradise Lost is a stunningly beautiful book, Wuthering Heights remains one of my favorites, and Moby Dick I at least appreciate for the influence it had on fiction as a genre.  Reading Gravity's Rainbow its impossible not to see the influence of Melville in my opinion.

    With that said, Moby Dick is 300 pages too long, right in the middle parts, but is just wondering writing.  Melville's short stories are really his best writing.  The most boring book I've read I would say is probably Atlas Shrugged, so we can all agree on that.  250 page speeches expanding on a bumper sticker philosophy aren't my cup of tea.  


    Black-Ops smear campaign... (none / 0) (#29)
    by kdog on Fri May 13, 2011 at 02:37:57 PM EST
    did cross my mind.

    But if true, ya got a point.  For the great satan, everybody loves our movies, our music, our clothes, and yes, our Southern Cali pron.  

    That's how you win...slowly, keeping our cool over time, then their kids decide we're way cooler than their parents are...provided the kid makes it to adulthood with all his limbs and no dead family members by our hands.


    Yep (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by Dadler on Fri May 13, 2011 at 02:51:22 PM EST
    But the tech revolution has laid waste the idea of patience, in general, in all aspects of life.  

    Drones and phones and, for this boy, groans.  If we are really in it for the long haul, then the need for so much immediate violence, reason tells me, isn't so great.  But what does a lowly citizen know?

    BTW, and for others who were curious, my son's anthem performance at the stadium when fantastically, they sounded great.  The only problem was they really didn't set it up well at all for parents.  Saw it all from a hundred fifty yards away, from behind.  Praying someone got a good video of it, but if not, he'll be back next year most likely.  And, of course, as thanks to the kids for their effort and patriotism, they stuck us in the second from the last row in the top deck.  Eli and his buddy are both afraid of heights and were kind of woozy the whole time, but they had fun.  I'll post a pic or vid soon.

    Peace out.


    Our movies are too violent (none / 0) (#67)
    by Politalkix on Fri May 13, 2011 at 07:29:44 PM EST
    SNL should hire some Arabic and Urdu writers to lampoon OBLs, Al-Awlakis, Kayanis, Pashas, Musharaffs, Zardaris, Gilanis, Saudi royal family, etc (just as they make fun of our political characters) to make the show popular in the Islamic world.
    The Saudis, Pakistanis and Afghans need their Seth Meyers, Will Ferrells, Darryll Hammonds,  Nasim Pedrads....

    It's heavy (none / 0) (#54)
    by Dadler on Fri May 13, 2011 at 04:11:26 PM EST
    Weighs a lot, I mean.

    And that equals quality, dontcha know?  


    Gives Moby Dick penis envy (none / 0) (#57)
    by Dadler on Fri May 13, 2011 at 04:21:39 PM EST
    Sorry, couldn't resist.

    San Diego Opera has the new "Moby (none / 0) (#79)
    by oculus on Fri May 13, 2011 at 08:51:09 PM EST
    Dick" on its sched. for next season.  Same composer who wrote the score for the opera "Dead Man Walking," which was quite interesting and listenable.

    Saw "Criminal Minds" while (none / 0) (#26)
    by observed on Fri May 13, 2011 at 02:14:59 PM EST
    at the Laundromat today.
    The show looks absolutely horrendous. And what is it with Mandy Patinkin?  With his "acting" ability, he should be called Mandy Mannequin.
    Then I caught a bit of Drew Carey. He looks awful. Is he sick?

    Isn't it? I tried watching it (none / 0) (#27)
    by ruffian on Fri May 13, 2011 at 02:31:15 PM EST
    a couple of weeks ago. Waaay over the top on the scary random violence. I really was horrified that people watch this every week.

    I gotta disagree (none / 0) (#46)
    by jbindc on Fri May 13, 2011 at 03:42:55 PM EST
    While no one would be surprised that I like police procedural dramas, I love seeing the scenic shots (reminds me of when I was there in 2001 and I can recognize some of the places - like Kailua Beach or the North Shore or Alamoana Mall), and of course, the added bonus of occasionally seeing Steve McGarrett (Alex O'Loughlin) coming out of the ocean wet, and just in bathing trunks, with his 6-pack abs, nice biceps and tattoos, is completely worth watching.

    That is my problem with a lot of cop shows (none / 0) (#69)
    by nyjets on Fri May 13, 2011 at 07:42:09 PM EST
    I enjoy a good, intelligent cop/crime show like Law & Order, Glades, and Flashpoint. But you are right, some of them like Hawaii 5-0, Criminal Minds, even a lot of the CSI shows, are less interested in telling good stories and more interested in making me sick to my stomach. Just reading the previews make me go 'Yuck!' Everytime I see a preview for a new cop series, I almost always give it a personal 'brutality' factor. And if that factor is too high, I wont event try the show.

    Once again, like the reality (none / 0) (#70)
    by brodie on Fri May 13, 2011 at 07:55:21 PM EST
    shows, I think I've seen all of about 5 minutes of any cop/detective/medical drama in my adult years.  

    Perhaps because I got my fill of that stuff growing up when network tv carried a lot of that sort of fare (The Untouchables, 77 Sunset Strip, Ben Casey MD being just a few major examples of the genres), in addition to about 5 thousand western series.  Of course, today it's (apparently, I don't watch) very graphic in the depiction of violence, blood and gore.  Back then, there was a great deal of shooting every night across the 3 networks' offerings, but rarely if ever did any of the victims even show signs of bleeding.  

    They were shot, they died, usually right on the spot, often with dramatic final words.  Except for maybe a few gentle, more family-oriented shows like Bonanza -- which seemed to have a lot of people wounded but not actually killed -- and that Michael Landon 70s show, House on the Prairie, where Landon the producer intentionally kept the violence to a minimum.


    Today shows are more graphic (none / 0) (#72)
    by nyjets on Fri May 13, 2011 at 08:31:30 PM EST
    There is no dispute in the fact that cop/crime shows today are more graphic than they used to  be. However, I think you would find that every decade , since the dawn of cop/crime shows, you have some cop shows that are ultra-violent and some cop shows that are not ultra-violent

    Next version... (none / 0) (#44)
    by ruffian on Fri May 13, 2011 at 03:28:01 PM EST
    H/T Corrente.

    SEALs video did capture all of OBL Raid. Not a capture mission, sounds to me. Not that I ever had a doubt myself.

    Not a capture mission, not a kill mission (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Politalkix on Fri May 13, 2011 at 04:10:43 PM EST
    just a military operation see link where the chances of a kill were more. The article mentions that you had groups of lawyers in waiting to handle either kill or capture situations.
    Cannot say that it would not be a capture if OBL was found naked in a surrender position while having sex with his wife (or while watching p0rn).

    I still don't get (none / 0) (#87)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri May 13, 2011 at 11:10:33 PM EST
    why he wasn't armed when the SEALs burst into the room.  Latest info is that he had poked his head out of the window earlier to see what all the rumpus was, so it's not like he was taken by surprise in his bedroom.  I don't go in for conspiracy theories, but it just doesn't add up.

    Is it possible (none / 0) (#94)
    by christinep on Sat May 14, 2011 at 02:10:42 PM EST
    that any "war story" ever adds up...from any war?
    What I mean is that, in any experience not even so harrowing as this whold mission assuredly was, differences at some level occur. It may be a slight difference in the quickness of an intense time--e.g., he leaned to this side says one, no says the other, he leaned this way, don't you remember. Lots of "info" gets sorted out, reported, and spread through even the most professional grapevine. For instance, that OBL might have glanced "out of the window"...well, that might be conclusion, surmise, storytelling???

    Unless the the overall story is at odds with itself in such a way as defies reality, my experience suggests that it is extremely difficult (almost darn near impossible) to find perfect or statistical alignment on the details of an operation even in fairly non-stressful situations (or different camera angles.) In fact, when I've wanted to undermine someone, one effective way to do that is to keep asking the same & variation of the same questions to that person or another supposed witness...precise alignment?...not in my memory. That's just my opinion.


    I have a feeling that this is why they (none / 0) (#95)
    by Anne on Sat May 14, 2011 at 03:32:59 PM EST
    filmed the raid - to eliminate as much as possible the conflicts arising from how the participants remembered the events.

    I think there have been numerous experiments done to show just how much variance there is among oa group of people who were all present for an event that is charged with danger and happens quickly: he was tall, he was average, he had a mustache, he was clean-shaven, his jacket was blue, his jacket was black, he said something, he didn't say anything, he had a knife, he had a gun - and so on.  Those who initially said one thing can be convinced that someone else remembers it with more accuracy and will change their story.

    We aren't likely to ever see the video, but I have to think a written report will be produced that documents the events based on that video.  Whether people will be satisfied with such a report is another question, but, shoot - even if they showed us the film, there would be people who would be convinced it had been doctored.

    I still have questions, there are some things that don't add up for me, but I'm more or less resigned to those questions never being resolved.


    Perhaps the camera (none / 0) (#97)
    by brodie on Sat May 14, 2011 at 05:00:45 PM EST
    was there for the reason of observer/witness error (and I'm not sure I entirely agree eyewitnesses aren't generally reliable as to the essentials of a major event), but there are other possibilities.  Such as

    . that the SEALs superiors in Washington would want to avoid any incentive for observer "mischief" -- i.e., the common tendency by the participants to want to clean up any major botches on their part by presenting a too-perfect oral description of their mission;

    . the video taped mission would provide another and very important level of proof should anyone question whether OBL had been killed, or how he was killed;

    . the taped mission would serve as an important legal (if necessary) and historical document and can be used for military training for future missions;

    . 21st C micro high-technology easily permits such video taping so you do it when it's so feasible

    As for this case, and Qs like why OBL wasn't described as being armed when encountered, there is a lot of confusion about how the event played out, due in major part to conflicting admin statements in the initial days, and so the best evidence would be the video.  Not sure why release of at least the portion relating to coming upon Laden shouldn't be released in the near future.  

    Unless of course the tape shows a man completely unarmed, putting up no resistance or even indicating he wants to surrender.  I hope that isn't the case ...  


    I was under the impression they generally (none / 0) (#98)
    by nycstray on Sat May 14, 2011 at 06:43:13 PM EST
    recorded their missions? Even the dogs have head cams and also equip that is on the back of their armor/flap jackets.

    Boo to ABC (none / 0) (#50)
    by jbindc on Fri May 13, 2011 at 03:58:34 PM EST
    For also canceling Detroit 1-8-7, one of the best shows to debut on TV this season. The critics loved it, but when you do things like keep moving the show so we can watch Charlie Sheen act the fool, then what do you expect?

    And another Boo to BBC (none / 0) (#58)
    by mmc9431 on Fri May 13, 2011 at 04:25:58 PM EST
    The BBC has canceled Larkrise to Candleford (airs here on PBS). They decided this even though it was one of their highest rated shows. The reason given was that they preferred to quit while they were on top.

    I can take solace in the fact that if the Republicans get their way, there won't be any PBS!


    Texas House Passes Bill Banning TSA 'groping' (none / 0) (#52)
    by ScottW714 on Fri May 13, 2011 at 04:06:23 PM EST
    Still needs Senate approval, but looks like it will pass.

    The proposal would classify any airport inspection that "touches the anus, sexual organ, buttocks, or breast of another person including through the clothing, or touches the other person in a manner that would be offensive to a reasonable person" as an offense of sexual harassment under official oppression.


    We get it right once in a while.

    Seems odd that the state would have jurisdiction over federal employees on federal property doing a federal mandated procedure.

    Federal employees but not federal property. (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by oculus on Fri May 13, 2011 at 08:56:44 PM EST
    Awesome. I hope more states follow (none / 0) (#91)
    by republicratitarian on Sat May 14, 2011 at 08:05:30 AM EST
    No thunderstorms? (none / 0) (#86)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri May 13, 2011 at 11:08:32 PM EST
    Geez, count your blessings, guy.  Here in the NE, we get them pretty much every late afternoon during the summer.

    My house is on a low rocky glacial ridge, one of many that run for miles up and down the valley, and if lightning hits the ground anywhere within 10 miles, it zaps right through the rock and fries everything from microwave oven to telephone answering machine.  So every blasted afternoon, as soon as I hear a rumble of thunder, I have to run around and unplug everything in the house and wait until it's far enough away that I can't hear it anymore.

    Tonight (none / 0) (#89)
    by Nemi on Sat May 14, 2011 at 07:08:43 AM EST
    in Düsseldorf, Germany is the finale of "The biggest music contest in the World" - the Eurovision Song Contest. Among the frontrunners are the twins "Jedward" from Ireland - a couple of hyper energized hopping, skipping, flipping, jumping-jacks with the weirdest hairdo - the weirdest thing being that it seems to be a popular fashion among young men - and a quite simple but catching (irritatingly so, as it kind of sticks, heh) song. Actually the two of them are rather adorable, but I don't envy their mother, their teachers or who else have been involved in their upbringing. ;)

    As the nation of the winners are the designated hosts for next years competition, which is a costly affair, I'm sure there must be some concern in Ireland to what to do, if they win the competition.