Overrated, Underrated, Properly Rated

Bill Simmons:

[O]ne of my favorite games (inspired by Chuck Klosterman): "Overrated, underrated or properly rated?" In the Internet era, we spend so much time dissecting things that it's hard to find something that's properly rated -- we either think someone's getting a little too much credit or not quite enough. Right now, there are only a few properly rated things: "The Social Network," Albert Pujols, Rihanna, Aaron Rodgers, Jennifer Lopez in HD, "24/7," Chik-Fil-A, Jim Gray, Dr. James Andrews, TNT's "Inside the NBA" show, prison it's not a long list.

Give me your pick for most overrated, underrated and properly rated person, place or thing. Open Thread as well.

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    With Presidents Day (5.00 / 0) (#3)
    by brodie on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 03:37:52 PM EST
    coming up:

    Overrated:  Harry S Truman, Ike, Ike's MIC Adieu Address, TR (jingoistic FP), Presidential Polls by Professional Historians

    Underrated:  JFK (by historians), Clinton, Carter (not as bad as historians rate him)

    Properly rated:  JFK (by popular polls), FDR, Lincoln  

    Off the top of my head (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by jbindc on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 03:40:06 PM EST
    Overrated:  TV / radio political pundits and hosts, most reality shows (I'm looking at you Jersey Shore cast), Sarah Palin, Eminem, "30 Rock", SEC football

    Underrated: "Detroit 1-8-7", "Burn Notice", P!nk, cool weather, George Clooney and Ben Affleck for their charity work

    Rated Just Right:  Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert (maybe a bit underrated)

    SEC football? (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 03:41:29 PM EST
    You lose all credibility right there.

    Play outside the South (none / 0) (#7)
    by jbindc on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 03:43:58 PM EST
    Auburn got lucky this year

    And Alabama the year before (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 03:46:07 PM EST
    And Florida in 2006 and 2008 and LSU in 2003 and2007 and . . .

    Yawn (none / 0) (#10)
    by jbindc on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 03:52:31 PM EST
    One team gets through.  Easy to pad your rankings when you play all your non conference games against much smaller schools.

    I see Florida has Florida Atlantic, UAB, AND Furman on the schedule for 2011 (and Furman is the second to last game in the season, when wins count more). And again, they don't leave the South.

    Auburn at least plays one school outside the South - Utah State. And so does LSU (Oregon)

    Ooh!  Vanderbilt plays both Army and UConn!



    (Grin) (none / 0) (#13)
    by jbindc on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 04:07:35 PM EST
    A good trash talking is always a good way to end a work week!  :)

    Knew (none / 0) (#101)
    by cal1942 on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 09:39:43 AM EST
    you weren't serious.  

    Friday's a great time for letting go of the cares of the week.


    Gotta agree (none / 0) (#33)
    by Zorba on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:14:16 PM EST
    with you, jbindc.  Even if BTD is annoyed/appalled/whatever.

    Painful as it is, (none / 0) (#19)
    by brodie on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 04:22:02 PM EST
    in this case it's difficult not to give the devil his due with all those championships of late.   One or two could be argued about, but not so many over the past decade.

    Overexposed on tv for the rest of the country?  Yes

    Overpaid with one or two exclusive tv/cable contracts?  Yes

    Built-in ongoing advantage against the other conferences for the above 2 reasons?  Yes

    But overrated as to genuine individual talent and team ability?  No


    No luck involved honey (none / 0) (#69)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 06:08:53 PM EST
    Right on the money (none / 0) (#41)
    by lilburro on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:24:29 PM EST
    with Detroit 1-8-7.  That show is GREAT.

    How's this...

    Overrated:  The Wire.
    Underrated:  Deadwood.


    30 Rock, really? (none / 0) (#78)
    by Raskolnikov on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 07:24:58 PM EST
    I'd say its the smartest comedy on television, which doesn't really say much, but it still takes the crown.  Burn Notice is about on the same level as Royal Pains (not complimentary).  Agreed on Steward and Colbert, I'd say Stewart slightly overrated and Colbert slightly under.

    I'll have to check out Detroit 187...if those kind of shows are done well they're great.


    Provocative (none / 0) (#100)
    by cal1942 on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 09:36:05 AM EST
    OK jbindc, who I always or almost always agree with.

    Tell me you were just having fun by provoking BTD.

    I have to hand it to the SEC.  They sure aren't overrated.


    Puke worthy overrated: Ronald Reagan (5.00 / 3) (#47)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:32:57 PM EST
    Underrated:  How pissed the American people are getting

    Just right:  Michelle Obama's Just Say No....erm...I mean "Let's Move" campaign

    see this (none / 0) (#48)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:34:28 PM EST
    The House of Representatives has voted 240-185 in favor of Rep. Mike Pence's amendment cutting off funds for Planned Parenthood.

    Senate (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Swiggs on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:42:39 PM EST
    Gosh - I guess we've all UNDER-rated the importance of the Senate, then.  

    heh (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:43:36 PM EST
    ignorant jerkaholics (none / 0) (#55)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:41:23 PM EST
    We are going to see all sorts of genuflecting  INSANITY out of this bunch because they would never have to actually live with the legislation.  But they love to go chumming and that is all they have to hang onto these days.  You won't see a wasted opportunity out of the Republican party right now.

    I feel like I want to get very (none / 0) (#68)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 06:08:26 PM EST
    specific about what I think is absolutely right on about Michelle Obama's campaign too.

    I have had to recover from extremely disabling asthma that we could not get under control for about five years.  I'm horribly allergic to a common mold down here that flies around in the air outdoors, and I'm so allergic to it I cannot even receive allergy shots for it or even the under the tongue drops.  I risk anaphylaxis with shots, and a few drops under my tongue causes a horrific migraine in about ten minutes.  It's crazy.  But we did get a very expensive air system that cleans all the spores out of the air in the house and we have it under control now.

    As soon as my asthma was under control though, I wanted to start running with my dogs again but my cardio and resp just wasn't there and I'm in my forties.  How do you go about getting up and running again?  I started researching, and I was trying to take my age into consideration too and ran across something from a recent surgeon general that one hour of ANY cardio daily has incredible health benefits.  All ages can meet this goal, just vary intensity.

    So I started gently, only asking an hour from myself.  I started very very gently.  If you do one hour of anything cardio daily you can't believe how beneficial it is and how much you can grow out of that.  And that is one of the items she encourages us all to adopt, just make a habit one hour a day.  If you live in South Korea and you get up early in the morning and go out running...you run past a whole village standing outside all doing some sort of Tai Chi.  Not even together, they are all over the place just doing their own thing.  They do it their whole lives, it is their habit, one hour a day seems like such a good American habit to me....one hour of anything just you and your body.


    Okay, let's see... (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by Anne on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 07:24:13 PM EST
    Overrated: the intelligence of media pundits, the promise of politicians, the NYT Best Seller list, the Super Bowl.

    Underrated: losing one's self in a good book, turning off the noise of everyday life and listening to the quiet, the satisfaction of creativity - whether it's cooking or drawing or writing or refinishing furniture, letting go - of old hurts, the baggage of childhood, all the stuff that we don't know is weighing us down until it's gone.

    Just right: laughter, connection, loving my family, the comfort of my bed, old clothes, the evocation of memory via scent, the way my hand fits into my husband's, the wag of the dogs' tails, the smell of spring, the sound of the ocean, the hush that falls with the snow.

    Paragraph two: absolutely agree. (none / 0) (#92)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 11:54:57 PM EST
    Wow, reading that is like experiencing (none / 0) (#97)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 08:18:26 AM EST
    an instant meditation :)

    I love the rating of the New York Time's Best Seller list.


    Hmmmm (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by CoralGables on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 08:09:57 PM EST
    Overrated - Titanic (the 2nd one), Alex Rodriguez, Kim Kardashian

    Underrated - The Princess Bride, Lebron James (yes I'm serious), Baseball's Opening Day

    About Right - My opinion of Ronald Reagan, George W Bush, Georgia Bulldogs

    Hmm, (none / 0) (#1)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 03:19:55 PM EST
    Overrated: The U.S. Senate;

    Underrated: Dalessandro's (at least, I think so; I haven't eaten there since the mid-90s);

    Properly rated: Chris Christie (never before in my experience has a candidate behaved in office exactly the way his opponent suggested he would in attack ads).

    My list (none / 0) (#2)
    by Babel 17 on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 03:22:00 PM EST
    Iain M. Banks: Properly rated as one of the greatest writers of science fiction.

    Milla Jovovich: Underrated for her singing abilities. Though I guess one can say it's actually a matter of people not knowing of her musical career.


    Banks is overrated,IMO (none / 0) (#12)
    by observed on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 04:01:49 PM EST
    He has become repetitive; I find his recent Culture novels yawners. My favorite Banks: Look to Windward,and Feersum Endjinn.

    Russo's Ship of Fools, George Foy's The Last Harbour, and Lee Hogan's Belarus are my picks for most original, well-written SF of the last several years.

    Most overrated SF author,currently? Neal Stephenson, hands down. Dude, get an editor---better yet, get a team of editors w orking at low rates from Mumbai to turn your out of control "writing" into a  semblance of English prose.

    Also overrated,and sharing Stephenson's anti-talent at characterization: Greg Egan.


    Just finished re-reading Look to Windward (none / 0) (#15)
    by Babel 17 on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 04:18:08 PM EST
    I also read Surface Detail recently. It's new and I thought it was great. Nothing stale there imo, the VR aspect was awesome.

    My favorite Banks novel is Against a Dark Background. I thought it was both bleak and inspiring and had a subtext of deconstructing many cherished SF themes.


    I also read SF,and honestly (none / 0) (#22)
    by observed on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 04:32:11 PM EST
    I can't remember a thing about it,except that I found it a slog. It's quality is up for debate, but the other recent Banks novel----Inversions?---was weak and derivative, with poorly written physical descriptions.

    Well, Inversions was just ok imo (5.00 / 0) (#24)
    by Babel 17 on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 04:44:07 PM EST
    It's from '98 btw. After Look to Windward we have Matter and then Surface Detail. Speaking just of Culture novels.

    I still have yet to read Transition.

    I've been reading SF for decades, I find a lot of it feels repetitive/derivative. Heh, it's hard to recapture the feel I got when reading, for example, Zelazny's best stuff for the first time.

    I'll do a google of the authors you mentioned. I'm always looking to get wowed again.


    I liked Jablokov's stuff (none / 0) (#25)
    by observed on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 04:51:59 PM EST
    in the 90's.  

    I love Greg Bear (none / 0) (#89)
    by DFLer on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 11:14:30 PM EST
    Transition,not Inversions. (none / 0) (#23)
    by observed on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 04:34:30 PM EST
    Banks is okay, agree he's overrated (none / 0) (#87)
    by cenobite on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 10:33:25 PM EST
    He's not boring, but it's basically Jane Austen with space ships. There's no science in it.

    Neal Stephenson comes up with a theory of mind based on parallel computation using everett-wheeler quantum interference... now that's crazy interesting, and it's only one small idea in "Anathem."

    "Singularity Sky" by Charles Stross is more like what I wish an Iain Banks novel would do.

    Underrated: Richard K. Morgan.
    Overrated: China Mieville.


    Sure,Stephenson is imaginative; (none / 0) (#98)
    by observed on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 09:05:02 AM EST
    he also overwrites to a painful degree. That problem could be fixed with an editor,but his inability to create even 1-dimensional characters is probably beyond help.

    After trying to finish (none / 0) (#102)
    by observed on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 09:43:26 AM EST
    Cryptonomicon,I swore off Stephenson, so I'll never try Anathem. CN was so painful I won't take the risk.

    Not a fan of Stross---way too (none / 0) (#103)
    by observed on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 09:45:24 AM EST
    cute for my taste. I prefer Banks---I'm just not fond of the Culture novels.

    I think I'm the lone Stephenson lover around here (none / 0) (#109)
    by ruffian on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 11:53:22 AM EST
    Maybe because I started with The Baroque Cycle, which is more historical fiction than sci-fi. Truthfully if I had pegged him as a sci-fi writer I would not have started reading him because it's not my genre.

    Eliza and Jack in The Baroque Cycle are two of my favorite characters in fiction. And I love the experience of total immersion I get from his writing.


    St. John's Hoops... (none / 0) (#6)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 03:43:30 PM EST
    totally underrated.

    Overrated...Xavier Hoops.

    Properly rated as a total mess...The NY Mutts.

    Concur on the Mutts (none / 0) (#27)
    by scribe on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:02:46 PM EST
    and I'll double down there:  who in their right mind would value that team, without SNY, at over $3.2 billion with a B?  Remember, the Wilpons' plea for a partner was 25% with no say, let alone control, for $800 million.

    Oh.  I know.  A couple guys who thought investing with Bernie Madoff was a good idea.

    Also overrated:  Obama.  Windows operating systems.

    Underrated:  making no-knead bread.  


    Commerce Clause overrated... (none / 0) (#9)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 03:51:32 PM EST
    Tenth Amendment underrated.

    If we're doing the Constitution, Dog, (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Zorba on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:04:05 PM EST
    I'd add: Fourth Amendment underrated, if not largely ignored (gee,thanks, Patriot Act and "Executive Power")
    Overrated:  Second Amendment (and don't get me wrong, I believe in the right of the people to "keep and bear arms"- we have rifles and shotguns ourselves- but they always ignore the "well-regulated militia" part and think that anyone can have anything they damned well please).

    2nd Amendment (5.00 / 0) (#104)
    by cal1942 on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 09:48:46 AM EST
    is an anachronism.

    Not necessarily (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Zorba on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 11:56:32 AM EST
    Not if you're talking about everyone having a muzzle-loader and being prepared to spring into organized action if we are invaded by the British.    ;-)

    Yup (none / 0) (#116)
    by cal1942 on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 03:11:41 PM EST
    One shot every 30 seconds.

    And you must report for drills.


    Re the Const'n: (none / 0) (#75)
    by brodie on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 06:23:03 PM EST
    Overrated:  the Constitution itself, as if written in stone by immortals

    Underrated:  the provision to amend Constitution; the "high crimes and misdemeanors" portion providing for impeachment and removal of presidents

    Properly rated:  crippling antidemocratic power of the Electoral College


    Brodie, brodie, brodie (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Zorba on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 06:33:27 PM EST
    Don't you realize that, in the eyes of the so-called "originalists," the Constitution was handed down to us by God and cannot be interpreted in the light of current conditions?  Sort of like the fundies and the Bible.    ;-)

    With the Oscars coming up (none / 0) (#11)
    by brodie on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 03:57:03 PM EST
    Overrated:  the Oscars®, nearly all other televised awards shows in the US but especially the Emmys® and the Grammys®, Rock & Roll HoF, Presidential Medal of Freedom awards, Nobel Prizes

    Underrated:  AFI Life Achievement Award

    Properly rated:  Kennedy Center Honors, Baseball HoF  

    on that subject (none / 0) (#14)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 04:17:59 PM EST
    over rated:  Pixar  (TS3)

    under rated: Sylvain Chomet (the Illusionist)

    hoping for an upset but that brings us back to overrated awards shows.


    With the Oscars coming up, nominees:: (none / 0) (#16)
    by KeysDan on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 04:18:25 PM EST
    Overrated: The King's Speech
    Underrated: 127 Hours; The Town (not nominated)
    Property rated: The Fighter

    kind of have to agree with you on all (none / 0) (#17)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 04:19:31 PM EST
    of that

    well (none / 0) (#18)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 04:20:31 PM EST
    except The Town

    I have a Ben Affleck allergy


    Captain, Just take a Claritin tablet (none / 0) (#105)
    by KeysDan on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 10:54:11 AM EST
    one hour before showtime, kick back and relax. The Town is a fun cops and robbers flick.

    overrated: (none / 0) (#20)
    by cpinva on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 04:27:17 PM EST
    anything by ayn rand and l. ron hubbard.

    I totally disagree (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 04:30:28 PM EST
    Hubbard was IMO a freaking genius.  lets see you make millions of bucks starting a religion based on alien spirits trapped in a volcano.

    Rand, ok.


    I think that (none / 0) (#30)
    by Zorba on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:11:13 PM EST
    cpinva was referring to Hubbard's fiction writing (a complete bunch of schlock).  But I'll agree with the "starting a religion" genius, regardless of the fact that the religion itself is.......well, I'll be kind and just say very, very outré (although Mr. Zorba maintains that this is true of all religions, and the only difference between Scientology and everything else is a few hundred or a few thousand years).  It is rumored that Hubbard once said "The way to make a million dollars is to start a religion."  And, boy, if he really did say that, was he correct!

    come on (none / 0) (#35)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:17:07 PM EST
    Battle Field earth is still my favorite awful movie.
    never read the book (gawd forfend) but it was the interpretation of his biggest fan Mr Revolta so I am assuming it was a sincere translation.

    its clueless vapidity is unsurpassed in all of filmdom.


    I read (none / 0) (#38)
    by Zorba on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:19:52 PM EST
    the book.  Schlock.  But to each his own.     ;-)

    ever see the movie? (none / 0) (#44)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:26:03 PM EST
    its so far beyond schlock.

    seriously.  I recommend it.  many laugh out loud moments that Travolta did not intend.


    With all due respect, Captain (none / 0) (#45)
    by Zorba on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:30:11 PM EST
    I really don't care for movies that are so bad, people think they're good.  But that's just me.   ;-)

    oh (none / 0) (#46)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:31:05 PM EST
    normally I agree.
    its just that in this case, well, you really have to see it I guess.

    The Captain has a gift (none / 0) (#49)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:34:30 PM EST
    when it comes to movie analysis :)  I have never been disappointed yet

    I think you and yours (none / 0) (#52)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:38:03 PM EST
    might love Battlefield Earth.  its pg I think

    from wiki:

    Critical reception

    Critically, the movie was viewed as a disaster and was universally panned by critics. It received a "rotten" rating of 2% on the review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes, based on over 100 reviews.[66] On Metacritic, the film had an average score of 9 out of 100, based on 33 reviews.[67] Film critic Roger Ebert gave the film the rating of half a star out of four and described it as "something historic, a film that for decades to come will be the punch line of jokes about bad movies"

    We took a family vote (none / 0) (#62)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:46:24 PM EST
    You have an excellent track record around here so we are going tomorrow.

    this isnt in theaters (none / 0) (#63)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:48:07 PM EST
    you know.  its a netflix.

    and if you get it (none / 0) (#65)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:52:03 PM EST
    I would love a reaction.

    confession.  I actually bought the DVD.


    That's funny (none / 0) (#71)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 06:15:32 PM EST
    I told my husband you suggestion and he says, "Oh yeah, that starts this weekend" :)  He must have it mixed up with something else.  I will Netflix it now.

    Hey, did you ever watch (none / 0) (#53)
    by observed on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:38:10 PM EST
    that Alaskan drama I recommended,about the faith healer whose family is murdered?

    is that (none / 0) (#56)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:41:23 PM EST

    its on my netflix list.


    It's wild (none / 0) (#61)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:45:38 PM EST
    Family dysfunction :)

    I did (none / 0) (#60)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:45:03 PM EST
    so did my husband.  He watched it with me right after he came home from Afghanistan.  I think it was one of the first things we did together, it came from Netflix.  He asked me what the hell that was :)  That was freaky.  Ever live anyplace where you can get that forgotten, like Wyoming?  Cuz I have :)  Dick Cheney came from Wyoming ya know :)

    Sophocles could have (none / 0) (#67)
    by observed on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 06:02:00 PM EST
    gotten plot tips.

    to be clear (none / 0) (#50)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:35:32 PM EST
    I dont think its so bad its good.  I think its so bad its worth seeing just so you know how bad bad can be

    At my age, (none / 0) (#64)
    by Zorba on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:51:35 PM EST
    I can't afford to waste a couple of hours of my time on something so bad that "you know how bad bad can be."  I've seen plenty of that in my lifetime, and I just don't have the patience for that any more.

    ok I confess (none / 0) (#66)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:54:26 PM EST
    I actually love.  it makes me laugh like a fool no matter how many time I see it.

    for some reason nothing is so much fun as watching a scientologist make a total a$$ of himself and pay many millions of his own money to do it.


    Now I'm sold (none / 0) (#73)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 06:16:59 PM EST
    Hey, I know what you are talking about (none / 0) (#74)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 06:19:19 PM EST
    With Forrest Whitaker?  And I can't remember the name of the blonde guy, young actor though...decent.  HOw is that about Scientology?  Please tell me that it doesn't have anything to do with the ghosts that live under volcanos and repress me :)

    I think I'm in love with Mr Zorba. (none / 0) (#95)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 05:18:03 AM EST
    (although Mr. Zorba maintains that this is true of all religions, and the only difference between Scientology and everything else is a few hundred or a few thousand years)

    IMHO (none / 0) (#26)
    by ruffian on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 04:55:39 PM EST
    Overrated: NFL Football : managed to sell itself way beyond its value

    Underrated: Stephen Colbert: he will eventually take over for Leno or Letterman. Best light interviewer on the air.

    Just right: the Harry Potter phenomenon in all it's incarnations

    Here goes: (none / 0) (#29)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:08:15 PM EST
    Overrated:  Lang Lang, will.i.am and BEP, Dmitri Hvorostovsky, "The Girl with the Dragon Tat7oo" (so far)
    Underrated:  Melvyn Tan, Marc-Andre Hamelin, Annie Proulx,
    Just right:  Mauricio Pollini, Garrick Ohlssen, Murray Perahia,Ian Bostridge, Gerald Finley, Bryn Terfel, Joyce DiDonato, Essa Pekka Salonen, Gergiev

    I've only seen the Dragon Tattoo movies (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by lilburro on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:22:54 PM EST
    I think they're rated perfectly right.  As movies they're not all that great but the story and character are unique and worth the effort (IMO).  It seems most reviewers agree although they focus too much on the lacking technical/artistic aspects of the films.

    You're reading or listening to the books though right?  My impression of the books is that they are really, really LONG.


    First book is 13 CDs. I'm near the end (none / 0) (#42)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:25:20 PM EST
    of first disc.  And constantly wondering, is this really worth it?  

    Dragon Tattoo (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Swiggs on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:39:44 PM EST
    I could not put these books down.  As in literally staying-up-all-night-on-a-work-night couldn't put them down.  But, I was reading, not listening on CD.  Not sure if that would make the experience different...

    I couldn't either (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by nycstray on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 07:45:53 PM EST
    especially 2 into 3.

    Probably, as the story seems pretty (none / 0) (#59)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:43:48 PM EST

    Ok Picking up at beginning of disc 3. (none / 0) (#93)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 11:57:40 PM EST
    Will probably stay the course.

    I agree the first part introducing all the (none / 0) (#106)
    by ruffian on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 11:36:41 AM EST
    players is a slog. Glad you are to the point that it picks up. I remember listening to it all through my weekend activities and not being able to stop after a point.

    Seeing "King Lear" in HD in La Mirad (none / 0) (#117)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 04:01:22 PM EST
    tomorrow afternoon.  Derek Jacobi.  Long drive, so I may finish off "Dragon Tattoo" as it is a long drive from here.  

    As someone (none / 0) (#88)
    by lilburro on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 10:51:06 PM EST
    who has only seen the movies...if you do give up the books, do see the movies.  The only film that to my knowledge plumbs the depths of female rage is the first one.  There's no doubt in my mind that Hollywood will do a disservice.  I think my impression was in part heightened by the lack of bells and whistles and absence of the needing to keep it under two hours and a half (IIRC the Swedish versions were part of a miniseries, so it has that pacing).  It works.  It's really good.

    I agree, they did a great job. (none / 0) (#107)
    by ruffian on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 11:41:05 AM EST
    I loved seeing all the locations, and the cast is very good. I haven't watched the third one yet- from what was said before, they did manage to cut away what I thought was excessive explanation and chit-chat in the third book. It seemed like every action chapter was followed by 2 chapters of all of the different groups talking about what had happened. The third book was my least favorite.

    Hmmph..let's see YOU (none / 0) (#32)
    by observed on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:13:08 PM EST
    play the black-key etude with an orange!

    No denying his superb technical skill. (none / 0) (#34)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:14:35 PM EST
    May mature musically.  Or not.  

    Well, the "orange" (none / 0) (#36)
    by observed on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:17:35 PM EST
    etude may be his best interpretation,IMO. Are you familiar with Valentina Lisita? opinion?

    No. Will keep ears open though. (none / 0) (#37)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:18:19 PM EST
    That reminds me: the (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by observed on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:25:22 PM EST
    most impressive video piano snippet,musically,technically and visually: a 35-ish Arrau playing some of Liszt's gnome dance. Absolutely stupendous. Best Chopin legato I have heard was from my last teacher: somewhat famous,student of Scaramuzza (he taught Argerich)

    if you email me , I can (none / 0) (#51)
    by observed on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:36:05 PM EST
    give you that name.

    She has a ton of stuff (none / 0) (#39)
    by observed on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:20:56 PM EST
    on youtube. Her Hammerklavier fugue is exceptionally clear,and musically convincing. Not sure if I care for her Chopin.

    About Hvorostovsky (none / 0) (#83)
    by christinep on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 08:42:54 PM EST
    My husband & I enjoyed very much a concert by Hvorostovky about 5 or 6 years ago. Very much. You think that....?

    I saw him in Met HD ofith (none / 0) (#91)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 11:50:44 PM EST
     "Eugene Onegin" w/Renee Fleming as Tatiana.  Very fine.  But, I recently heard him in a recital at Music Center in LA and was underwhelmed.  May change my mind.  

    Television (none / 0) (#31)
    by Swiggs on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:12:41 PM EST
    My favorite subject!

    Under-rated:  Fringe, Human Target, advertised-based model (to pay for programming), AMC, MotoGP, Hawaii Five-0 (and expecially Scott Caan!), Grammy's Award show

    Over-rated:  anything with Vampires or Zombies & The Jersey Shore (is that redundant?)

    Properly rated:  HBO, Good Wife, NASCAR, Glee, Oscars Award show

    Question to ponder:  how is it that Fox is responsible for both the generally terrific programming on its broadcast channel AND the abomination that is Fox News??

    Totally agree with you on the overrating of (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by shoephone on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 06:09:57 PM EST
    anything with vampires, except for Karen Russell's short story, "Vampires in the Lemon Grove," which is freaking brilliant. And the fact that she wrote it when she was only 24 years old makes me jealous.

    Thanx! (none / 0) (#79)
    by Swiggs on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 07:32:01 PM EST
    I'll check it out!

    It's in The Best American Short Stories of 2008 (none / 0) (#84)
    by shoephone on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 08:49:25 PM EST
    Edited by Salman Rushdie. Enjoy (there's a T.C. Boyle story in there too.)

    As for television!!!:

    I can't think of a better comedy than "Modern Family." It makes me crack up every single week, and makes me wish Cam were my brother. Best espionage show, "MI-5" (called "Spooks" in Britain).

    And I think pretty much everything else on TV is overrated.


    Music (none / 0) (#72)
    by brodie on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 06:15:56 PM EST
    Overrated: most popular music post-1970s; rap; jazz; winners of popular tv sing-offs; Sgt Pepper; Pet Sounds; Sinatra; Susan Boyle; country music

    Underrated:  Johnny Rivers; Trini Lopez; the Byrds; Dusty Springfield; Karen Carpenter; Buffalo Springfield; ABBA (still); country musicians

    Properly rated:  Most classic rock/pop from 60s/early 70s

    Don't start with me on post-70's jazz (none / 0) (#85)
    by shoephone on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 08:56:27 PM EST
    or I'm gonna start referring to you as the Uptight Mr. Marsalis!

    And... Sgt. Pepper? Overrated? Seriously?
    That's sacrilege!


    (But I agree on the underrated country musicians.)


    Pepper for a long time (none / 0) (#99)
    by brodie on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 09:28:03 AM EST
    was wildly overpraised until perhaps the last few years.  This just means some critics went overboard, not that the album itself still isn't quite good.  And it was a major cultural landmark for the 60s.  But all the songs aren't great -- I'd say 3 don't make the cut -- and the whole thing as a "concept" album doesn't quite cohere.  John Lennon himself said similar.  Probably had he been more on board about the concept idea, there truly would have been the album to top all others in the pantheon of rock.

    Revolver is properly praised because it has about as many great songs but until recent years wasn't praised sufficiently to put it in danger of being overrated.  Ditto Rubber Soul.

    Pet Sounds:  without a doubt 4-5 songs are in the Great category, some of the best pop music ever made.  A few others are okay.  The rest just don't do it for me.


    Revolver, Rubber Soul -- I still have (none / 0) (#115)
    by Towanda on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 01:56:11 PM EST
    my albums.  (Underrated single: Norwegian Wood.)

    Sergeant Pepper, well, the music was a shock, a major change, so I didn't take to all of it well then.  But that's exactly why it was and is important, breaking our music out of the '50s and the traditions (great ones, yes) of this country, especially the Southern influences -- important as those were for the Beatles halfway around the world.

    But then the Beatles started bringing to us influences from halfway around the world in another and new direction, and we haven't been the same since.


    Lawyer superstition (none / 0) (#81)
    by fuzzyone on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 07:51:24 PM EST
    I wonder if either Jeralyn or BTD or any other trial lawyer around saw this article about superstitions among trial lawyers. I only did trials for a couple of years before switching to appeals and then Habeas and never had any superstitions like this. How about you?

    Politics (none / 0) (#86)
    by Gmama on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 09:28:00 PM EST
    Underrated: H.B. Gary scandal

    Underrated: (none / 0) (#90)
    by lilburro on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 11:17:52 PM EST
    because it's impossible to overrate...this community.  So many quirky personalities, all caring in one way or another.  A smart bunch, and when I've wandered off I've only been scared of the thoughtlessness of other online communities.  BRRRR!!!  I know the group we have here cares about their comments (including some sadly lost...yes, you SteveM, squeaky, CreamCity, Stevieie34...some other numbers...I know it's not the end of the world and you have wonderful things to do, but still).  Regardless of the degree to which we disagree, happy to be here.  :)  Thanks all, and thanks J.  And BTD....as much as I enjoy you glad you're into college football, otherwise I'd have to program a bot to spam this site with E-A-G-L-E-S every Sunday.  And by "I'd have to" I mean "I would."

    A five would underrate this comment! (none / 0) (#108)
    by ruffian on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 11:46:45 AM EST
    Classic Rock Albums (none / 0) (#94)
    by cymro on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 01:22:26 AM EST
    Underrated (in chronological order, approximately): Forever Changes (Love), Argus (Wishbone Ash), Caravanserai (Santana), Band on the Run (Wings), Frampton (Peter Frampton), It's Only Rock and Roll (The Rolling Stones), Howling Wind (Graham Parker), Change Everything (Del Amitri)

    Overrated (contrasted in order with those above): Pet Sounds (The Beach Boys), IV (Led Zeppelin), Supernatural (Santana), The White Album (The Beatles), Frampton Comes Alive (Peter Frampton), Exile on Main Street (The Rolling Stones), This Year's Model (Elvis Costello), The Joshua Tree (U2)

    Properly rated (as classics): The Times They Are a-Changin' (Bob Dylan), Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, Revolver, and Rubber Soul (The Beatles), Alice's Restaurant (Arlo Guthrie),  Astral Weeks (Van Morrison), American Pie (Don McLean), Harvest (Neil Young), Live at Leeds (The Who), What's Going On (Marvin Gaye), Layla (Derek and the Dominoes), Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here (Pink Floyd), Desire (Bob Dylan), Live! (Bob Marley and the Wailers), Some Girls (The Rolling Stones) ...

    Weird. I think that we (none / 0) (#96)
    by Towanda on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 06:03:58 AM EST
    are in absolute agreement.  All down the line.

    Admittedly, it has taken decades for me to admit openly that any Beatles albums are overrated, although I thought so at the time of the above.  However, it would have been heresy.  It's safe to say so now.  Whew, finally got that off my chest.


    Thanks! This was a fun exercise (none / 0) (#112)
    by cymro on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 01:17:43 PM EST
    I'm sure I forgot a few obvious comparisons of underrated vs. overrated albums. For example, I just remembered this one:

    Underrated: Songbook (Paul Simon)
    Overrated: Sounds of Silence (Simon and Garfunkel)


    Oh oh. (none / 0) (#114)
    by Towanda on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 01:52:21 PM EST
    We may finally have found the evidence that we are not identical twins separated at birth. . . .

    You had to be there! (none / 0) (#118)
    by cymro on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 04:34:41 PM EST
    I'm sure one's preferences sometimes depend on when and where you first heard an album.

    In June 1965, I was visiting Swansea University for a track meet. One day I saw a tiny poster promoting a visiting American folk singer. I was (of course) already familiar with Joan Baez and Bob Dylan, but in those days in the UK we had little exposure to any other American folk singers. So, being curious, and having nothing much else to do, I sought out the folk club room in the Students' Union that evening.

    There, sitting on the floor with fewer than 20 other students, in a room that was smaller than my living room is today, I heard Paul Simon perform all the songs he was in the process of recording in London for what would become The Paul Simon Songbook. About half way through the performance, he remarked that some songs just work better with two voices, and called on his friend Art, who had been lounging unobtrusively in the corner at the back of the room the whole time.

    I was deeply impressed by the originality of the songs and the emotional power of the performance. Two days later I ordered the album at my local record store, two months before it was actually released that August.

    The acoustic album, Songbook, perfectly recreates the experience of that performance. So I was not at all impressed by the toned-down folk-rock arrangements of the same songs that came out the next year on Sounds of Silence. It never came close to registering as a better album. I have always regarded it as wimpy successor, whose song arrangements were created solely to please a wider audience, not to improve on the quality of the songs or the performances of them.

    But I can see that if you grew up thinking that Sounds of Silence was a classic, you might not appreciate Songbook the way I do. Agreed, its sound quality is not up to today's standards. It was recorded with a single mic, and you can hear Paul tapping his foot on the wooden floor. So play it loud, and listen to it as a live solo acoustic performance. Because that's what Paul sounded like in person in 1965. And, from about 12 feet away, it was mesmerizing and unforgettable; I still get chills when I listen to those songs today.


    oo this is fun (none / 0) (#111)
    by CST on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 01:08:25 PM EST
    overrated: The Beatles, sorry - but it's true they're good but not thaaat good, being a tourist, the Black Eyed Peas, New York, Picasso, Andrew Jackson, Reagan, Dave Matthews

    underrated: education, travel, science, sleep, Wanderung, fresh air, dancing

    properly rated: Stevie Wonder, Modern Family, Hitler, the Buffulo Bills, Van Gogh, pie, rush hour traffic, the rest of Dave Matthew's Band

    I agree (none / 0) (#119)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 04:48:08 PM EST
    with you on the Beatles. I grew up with Beatles weekends on radio stations all the time and was sick of them by the time 1979 rolled around. Even to this day I don't care much for them.

    More ratings (none / 0) (#113)
    by brodie on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 01:35:09 PM EST
    Overrated:  dK4; Arianna as a genuine, loyal voice for liberal causes; the promise of independent journalism on the net; the 60s promise of the glorious high-tech space-voyaging future; scientists' influence on society and politics; Zahi Hawass; Noam Chomsky; the CIA; Taylor Branch; Doris Kearns Goodwin; Eugene Robinson; Piers Morgan

    Underrated:  Rbt Parry; Greg Mitchell; James Douglass; Wm Tidwell; Donald Gibson; Graham Hancock; NAmer ancient pyramids/mounds

    Properly rated:  iMacs; cell phones; Rbt Caro; Arthur Schlesinger, Jr; Giza pyramids    

    alright - I'll weigh in too (none / 0) (#120)
    by tworivers on Sun Feb 20, 2011 at 08:27:30 AM EST
    Overrated:  A. Rod,  North by Northwest (the movie), Dances With Wolves, Lawrence of Arabia, John Ashbery's poetry, Johnny Depp, The tv show 24, latter day John Coltrane

    Underrated: Strangers on a Train (the movie), Truffaut's The Bride Wore Black and Mississippi Mermaid, Stranger on the Third Floor (Peter Lorre movie), Point Blank (1960's Lee Marvin movie), Husker Du - New Day Rising, T. Rex The Slider, The Turtles' later records (esp. Turtle Soup), Dolly Parton - Coat of Many Colors, The Raincoats' Odyshape and The Kitchen Tapes, Charles Mingus in general, Kenneth Patchen's poetry, The Third Policeman (Flann O'Brien novel), Paul Auster's novels (esp. the early ones), the brilliance of the writing of some episodes of The Twilight Zone, Alan Rickman, Maggie Smith

    Properly Rated: Johnny Cash, Mariano Rivera (much as it pains me to say this, the guy is GOOD), Robert DeNiro, Weeds, 6 Feet Under, Lord of the Rings trilogy (the movies, not the books), Philip K. Dick, Bob Dylan

    just a couple more (sorry) (none / 0) (#121)
    by tworivers on Sun Feb 20, 2011 at 08:38:24 AM EST
    Overrated: Leo DiCaprio, Animal Collective

    Underrated - Sir Douglas Quintet - Mendocino (why this albim isn't more widely known I'll never know)