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    I'm a virgin when it comes to (5.00 / 0) (#2)
    by observed on Sun Nov 27, 2011 at 07:41:38 PM EST
    anything Tebow, and I plan to stay that way.

    That kind of pose looks appropriate (none / 0) (#9)
    by observed on Sun Nov 27, 2011 at 10:35:54 PM EST
    for certain adult venues.

    Booman's embrace (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by lilburro on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 11:24:03 AM EST
    of the argument that disappointment in Dem Presidents is just in liberal DNA lasted less than a week.  In case you had forgotten, Bill Clinton is evil, and Barack Obama never triangulates.

    Except when trying to put together a Grand Bargain.  Or when stirring up deficit hysteria.  Or when embracing tax cuts as stimulative measures.


    Booman's like the poor soul ... (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 12:24:30 PM EST
    who falls in love with someone who isn't good for him, and then can't understand why none of his friends approve.

    Soon I'm sure he'll say, with tears in his eyes, "You just don't want me to be happy!"


    I find a player dropping to one knee, for (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by caseyOR on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 03:40:53 PM EST
    whatever reason, much less annoying than the stupid end zone dances so many players feel the need to choreograph. Yeah, sure, celebrate the score, but maybe keep it short, and, as Stevie Johnson learned in yesterday's Bills vs Jets game, don't mock the other team's players.

    Why oh why did Johnson think it was a good idea to dance around the end zone pretending to shoot himself in the thigh, ala Plaxico Burress, and then to add insult to injury by mocking Santonio Holmes? The Bills got hit with a 15 yard penalty, and outstanding catches by Burress and Holmes sealed the win for the Jets.

    Instant Karma... (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 03:49:40 PM EST
    struck Mr. Johnson....when he dropped a ball that hit him right on the hands, in stride, while wide the f8ck open, at the 10 yard line in the waning moments.

    Boy did the Jets get lucky...thanks Stevie!


    Exactly. n/t (none / 0) (#47)
    by caseyOR on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 03:50:39 PM EST
    Johnson is mister instant (none / 0) (#49)
    by jondee on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 03:54:49 PM EST
    karma (and let it be a lesson to him): last year he did an Owens-Ochocinco number in the end zone, in the very next game against Pittsburgh, dropped a game winning pass in the end zone that my deceased grandmother could've caught. And yesterday, after his cavorting, he dropped another easy catch that could've sealed the game..

    On a slightly different note, what is it with wide recievers and erratic behavior in general? Is it all the unprotected hits they take? I wonder sometimes. I tend to think it's something more than just a position-subculture thing..



    Tebow (none / 0) (#1)
    by Amiss on Sun Nov 27, 2011 at 07:17:05 PM EST

    I am now an official Tebow follower (none / 0) (#3)
    by christinep on Sun Nov 27, 2011 at 07:50:51 PM EST
    Having watched his first foray with amusement in Denver, that growing to "he finds a way to win," to "whatever he isn't, he can direct the team & is a natural leader," to "he knows how to scramble...doesn't give up," to (after the last game against the Chiefs) "if he leads the team to a win next week (that would be today's Chargers) I'll become a full-fledged all-in fan."  So...it is fun being a fan again.

    22 carries by the QB (none / 0) (#5)
    by MKS on Sun Nov 27, 2011 at 08:18:40 PM EST
    This is really different.....

    If only the can teach him to pass in the off season.


    I was listening to.... (none / 0) (#13)
    by rdandrea on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 10:29:07 AM EST
    ...an all night sports station last night, and the commentator said that Tebow's 22 was the most rushes by an NFL quarterback in a single game since 1950.

    Can't vouch for the source.


    STATS LLC (none / 0) (#15)
    by CoralGables on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 11:16:11 AM EST
    which is pretty accurate as they are also being quoted by ESPN and Sports Illustrated on the matter.

    NFL defenses (none / 0) (#54)
    by cal1942 on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 04:47:24 PM EST
    will find a way to stuff him.

    There's a reason NFL QBs must be able to throw.


    So one would think (none / 0) (#59)
    by MKS on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 06:40:21 PM EST
    But when the QB runs, you have an extra blocker --a built-in wildcat formation.

    It is fascinating to watch this contraption that is the Denver offense rumble, bumble, stumble along, but they do win.....at least for now.

    And Elway, (he of greatest arm strength in NFL history), watching in bewilderment and probably with some indigestion at his southpaw QB as he spits out passes.  Great irony.  Great story.


    Yeah (none / 0) (#73)
    by cal1942 on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 11:26:40 PM EST
    it's all great fun to watch.

    Isn'T it a slap in the face for the much (none / 0) (#74)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 11:34:48 PM EST
    Mushed SEC that Meyer chose OSU?

    No (none / 0) (#76)
    by CoralGables on Wed Nov 30, 2011 at 10:07:19 AM EST
    Based on his health, getting away from the SEC pressure cooker is probably a good thing.

    When leaving Florida, Steve Spurrier speaking of the pressure at Florida said something like...if you don't win ten games each season you're a failure.

    By comparison, at Ohio State you can win just one and be successful as long as it's against Michigan.


    And I should also clarify (none / 0) (#77)
    by CoralGables on Wed Nov 30, 2011 at 10:11:14 AM EST
    Spurrier said anything less than ten was a failure when college football played an eleven game season.

    Hope he sealed Norv Turner's fate (none / 0) (#4)
    by Dadler on Sun Nov 27, 2011 at 08:10:45 PM EST
    Chargers' General Manager AJ Smith will go too, if it happens.  Team'll be in L.A. soon anyway, so it'll all be moot.  God loves Denver right now.

    Don't know who won. (none / 0) (#7)
    by oculus on Sun Nov 27, 2011 at 10:14:11 PM EST
    Superb concert @ Disney Hall.   Salons Ax chorale/LA Phil.

    Re Occupy LA: Tomorrow is D Day. (none / 0) (#8)
    by oculus on Sun Nov 27, 2011 at 10:22:50 PM EST
    Saw many,  many tents tonight. And lots of t
    TV trucks.  And people and banners.

    Yaaaaaawwwwwnnnn! (none / 0) (#10)
    by cymro on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 12:29:42 AM EST
    And that is my final opinion.

    The question is (none / 0) (#11)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 09:05:06 AM EST
    Why does anyone care if Tebow, and other athletes for that matter, pray/give thanks in public?

    When I lived in Littleton and was a very heavy air traveler I saw Muslims praying in public at DIA on a regular basis. Never felt threatened or had a desire to tell them to quit.

    I mean I thought we have freedom of religion.

    I could care less (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Yman on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 10:57:42 AM EST
    ... about Tebow or his public displays of religion, but the Free Exercise clause of the 1st Amendment prohibits the government from prohibiting the free exercise of religion.  It does not guarantee someone the right to be free from criticism when they choose to exercise their religion at a football game.

    OTOH - Maybe his critics are just more observant than Teebow, and think that public displays of prayers at a football game are just silly.  Personally, I think if there is a God, I hope he/she has bigger issues than an NFL game.

    Mathew 5:5-5:6:

    And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.  But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

    I agree (none / 0) (#19)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 11:46:37 AM EST
    they have freedom of speech. I just can't understand the "why" of the criticism.

    And I am familiar with Mathew. But then we have this.

    .... if public prayer is not permitted, then just about every Christian service is seriously in error......it criticizes only that prayer in public that is motivated by a desire to show off. Prayer "may be offered in any circumstances, however open, if not promoted by the spirit of ostentation..." 1

    And since you like Mathew:

    Matthew 14:19: "...took the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude." (KJV)

    But then we know that Jesus went up to the mountain to pray alone. But then we have:

    John 11:41b to 42: Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me."

    Religious Tolerance

    So is asking for a blessing or giving thanks for a successful football game a prayer?

    I think so.


    Well, now that we understand ... (none / 0) (#23)
    by Yman on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 12:15:55 PM EST
    ... that there's no Freedom of Religion issue here, the "why" probably varies greatly depending on the person.  I personally don't really object to Tebow's praying, other than the implication that God is somehow responsible for it. I just think it's silly to think that God has the slightest thing to do with who scores a touchdown or wins a game - other than (if you're a believer) in the general sense of God having created everyone.  If that's the case, I guess people could say a prayer after every successful walk up a flight of stairs, bowel movement, breath, blink, etc., etc. ...  

    ... at some point, it gets kinda silly.


    Everyone assumes that people (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 12:31:07 PM EST
    pray for things like touchdowns or field goals, but it's just as possible that what they're praying for are things like "please help me to do my best for my team," or "please help me make the right decisions," or "please help me be as humble in victory as I am in defeat" or any of a multitude of things that have nothing to do with selfish requests like "please let my team win."

    Tebow is not the only athlete whose faith is right out there for all to see - I watched NFL Network's special Sound FX on Saturday night, which did an entire hour on Ravens/49ers, and there was a shot of Terrell Suggs - who had been an absolute beast on defense all night long - on the bench, sweat streaming off of him, with his head down, whispering "thank you, Jesus."  Hey, whatever gets people through, right?  

    When they start having recitations of the Lord's Prayer at games, then I'll object - but it just isn't my place to judge whether someone - Tebow or anyone else - should refrain from any "public" expression of faith.  After all, I might want to do it someday, and I sure don't want others sitting in judgment of me!


    Very well said (none / 0) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 01:04:28 PM EST
    Sure, it's possible (none / 0) (#33)
    by Yman on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 01:40:31 PM EST
    ... that they're praying for those things, but ultimately, I think it's a distinction without a difference.  Asking God to "please help me do the best for my team" or "please help me make the right decisions" is still asking God to help you accomplish your ultimate goal at that moment, which is to win the football game.  Moreover, many of these public displays of peity are saved for moments immediately after a milestone toward that goal, like scoring a touchdown, or preventing the opposing team from scoring.

    If these guys were researchers looking for a cure for cancer, EMTs trying to save  patient, or teachers praying for a way to get through to a difficult student, I could understand ... but they're not.  They're guys trying to get a ball across a line, through a goalpost, or prevent another guy from doing the same thing.  I just don't think God cares about a football game.  Maybe it helps these guys personally to feel like God cares, but I'm not buying it, and I think in many cases the public displays of peity are for the consumption of the TV audience.

    BTW - If you don't think people should judge them based on these public displays of their religion, why would you have a problem with the Lord's Prayer being recited?


    I can't tell you how many times (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 02:25:45 PM EST
    I've uttered, to myself, some variation of the "please help me" thing, whether it's about being patient or more tolerant, or less angry, or whatever, and in most of those instances, I was looking for and reaching within myself, not expressly praying to God or anyone else to do it for me, or to magically make me the recipient of something I needed.

    Everyone's faith - for those who have it - takes the form that is most meaningful to them, and isn't based on what others deem most meaningful or worthy of prayer.  You don't know, and neither do I, where the universe is going to take us, but the experiences we have shape us, and sometimes determine the direction our lives will take.  I happen to believe that we are each responsible for our own lives - but if my faith gives me support for that journey, for the decisions I make, for the paths I choose, who are you  - who is anyone? - to judge whether that faith is meaningful or selfless enough?  

    I guess I just don't care for how you trivialize what you believe these athletes are praying for, demean them for doing something you've decided they're doing, and even managed to provide an assessment of what God thinks or feels; and this is based on what, exactly?  Your feelings?

    And, for what it's worth, there's a huge difference between an athlete's personal expression of faith, whether it's pointing skyward, or genuflecting, or bowing his head, and a stadium full of people being asked to stand and recite the Lord's Prayer.  I am, quite honestly, a little surprised that you don't see that.

    And yes, before you ask, I would also be fine with not being asked to stand for the playing of the national anthem at these events, because there is nothing about a football game that has anything to do with patriotism.


    Anne: Thank you for (none / 0) (#43)
    by christinep on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 03:05:02 PM EST
    this powerful statement of personal belief, your personal credo. Thank you for expressing so well the nature of personal petition, need, and thanksgiving...and, how internal realities of those feelings are projected in the oft-times public atmosphere we walk or play or work in today. Your essay should be widely published as an example of First Amendment understanding on a deep level.

    Unless the government ... (none / 0) (#50)
    by Yman on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 03:56:26 PM EST
    Your essay should be widely published as an example of First Amendment understanding on a deep level.

    ... is promoting religion or interfering with their free exercise of religion, NFL players praying publicly has absolutely nothing to do with the First Amendment.

    It's the spirit of what this is all about, yman (none / 0) (#69)
    by christinep on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 09:17:50 PM EST
    The spirit of respect, tolerance.

    Psychobabble BS aside, ... (none / 0) (#70)
    by Yman on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 10:15:15 PM EST
    ... no one is trying to deny these players their 1st Amendment rights.  I respect the 1st Amendment right of these players to be free from government interference in their religion.  I also respect my 1st Amendment right to mock the idea that God cares who wins a football game, or is somehow responsible for making a funny little ball cross a line or go through two, metal poles.

    What's the "huge difference"? (none / 0) (#48)
    by Yman on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 03:52:19 PM EST
    Unless someone is forcing others to stand and pray then it's simply a voluntary prayer.  The NFL is a private organization, not some government institution.  If they want to ask everyone to rise for the national anthem or the Lord's Prayer, they can do it.

    As for the praying athletes, I trivialize their prayers because they're praying for something trivial, IMO.  I'm not judging your faith or your need to pray to reach inside and motivate yourself to do something.  I'm judging the motives of those who think that God should give a r@t's @ss about whether they're able to do something as noble and valuable as get a leather ball across a little, white line or kick it through some metal poles.  Yes - in fact I do believe that any God worthy of prayer should have several million things that are of a higher priority than an NFL game.  If you don't like that, well ...

    ... that's a shame.


    But you don't know what they're (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 04:04:02 PM EST
    praying for - you just think you know, and are determined to substitute your own judgment about the value of what you think they're doing, and seem to be doing so just so you can mock it.

    Does the term "strawman" ring a bell?

    And we may have to leave it there; I'm not getting into a jim-style argument with you on this, because you clearly do not get it.


    Oh, come on ... (none / 0) (#52)
    by Yman on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 04:26:55 PM EST
    What do you think they're praying for when they kneel in the endzone or point to the sky after scoring a touchdown?  Yes, I suppose it's possible that they're praying for world peace, a cure for cancer, or a sick child, but I'm guessing they're giving thanks for the touchdown they just scored.

    Yeah - I get it that some people feel get motivated or inspired to do all sorts of things by saying a prayer when they feel the need.  Whatever floats your boat.  I just think it's silly to pretend that God is involved in an NFL game.



    What do I think they're praying for? (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 05:52:24 PM EST
    Why does it matter what I think?

    And why does it matter so much to you how - or where - anyone chooses to express his or her faith, and why is it so important that you've granted yourself the special ability to see into people's minds and proclaim what it is they're praying for - and further render judgment that it's not important enough - to you, to the world? - to waste God's time with?

    As for it being silly to think that God could be involved in a football game, I don't suppose it has occured to you that sports has been a way out of poverty and less-than-ideal family and living situations for a lot of young people; if any of those who use sports as a way out choose to thank God for that, and continue to show their appreciation for the opportunities, end up mentoring other athletes, give back to their communities, well, who is to say that God is not at work there, and it's silly to think God cares about football?

    Perhaps God works in ways more mysterious than you are willing to give Him credit for.

    As far as I'm concerned, as long as other people's religious beliefs are not legislatively forced on me, it's very much a live-and-let-live thing for me; it just seems like the best way to have my own views respected.


    It matters because you're ... (none / 0) (#68)
    by Yman on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 08:13:28 PM EST
    ... hypothesizing that they may not be praying about the game, but for some greater cause.  You can choose to believe that ... I don't.

    As Nick Novak lined up a 53-yard field goal late in overtime, Tim Tebow could not bear to look. He sat on the bench, helmet in his hands and tried to find comfort in a familiar place.

    So he prayed.

    "Obviously, I want to win," Tebow said when asked about the intentions of his prayer. "But no matter what happens, good or bad, I want to have an opportunity to give my lord and savior credit for whatever."

    So he wasn't praying for Novak to miss?

    "I might have said that," Tebow said with a laugh. "Or maybe a block. Maybe all of it."

    As I said, I really don't care much about Teebow's (or any other NFL player's) public displays of their religious beliefs.  I just think it's beyond silly to think that God was responsible for scoring points (or the other team not scoring points) in a football game.  I think it's preposterous to think that Gos cares in the slightest which team wins a game.  Moreover, while the players have every right to drop to their knees, point to the sky, bow their heads, or do whatever else they want to do to demonstrate their peity for the world to see, I have the right to judge anyone who thinks that God is responsible for their getting the ball across the line, or for the other team missing a field goal.  For some reason, that really bothers you.

    I guess you'll have to get over it.


    No, Yman, I am responding to (none / 0) (#71)
    by Anne on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 07:15:43 AM EST
    your declaration/assumption about what athletes are praying for, and suggesting that - your handy-dandy quoted material notwithstanding - it's a global assumption you have no basis for making.

    It strikes me that someone who truly did not care about Tebow's - or anyone's - public expressions of faith would not find it necessary to then trivialize and demean him, and by extension anyone who dares to express faith as an athlete, by asserting your opinion - I'm sorry, your judgment - that God couldn't possibly care about sports and anyone who thinks He does is just being silly.

    I guess I'm not as confident as you are that I know what God finds important and what He doesn't...

    Oh, well...I don't think I need to get over your right to judge, as much as you need to get over yourself; I'd suggest you pray for some help with that, but aside from the fact that it isn't my place to tell anyone what he or she should pray for, you may be screwed because God might have more important requests to listen to - at least according to the standards you've set for God's priorities.

    Wow - no ego there, eh, Yman?


    Yep, you're right (none / 0) (#72)
    by Yman on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 10:32:26 AM EST
    what athletes are praying for, and suggesting that - your handy-dandy quoted material notwithstanding - it's a global assumption you have no basis for making.

    I have absolutely no basis for making the assumption that these athletes are praying to win the game.  Well, except for the fact that most of these expressions of faith occur immediately after they score, or (as in the Teebow example) when the other team is trying to kick a field goal or otherwise score to win the game.  Maybe you're right ... maybe scoring points gives these athletes the sudden urge to pray for world peace, and end to hunger, a cure for disease, etc.  You have every right to engage in that self-delusion if you wish, but don't expect me to ignore the obvious.  Then, of course, there's the fact that Teebow was specifically asked about his praying and admitted what he was praying for.  Yeah, ... maybe we should just leave that "handy-dandy quoted material aside".


    BTW - You - of all people - may want to watch yourself up on that high horse of yours - lecturing people about refraining from judging others.  We all judge people for what they do and say - every single day of our lives.  Apparently, you've decided that no one should judge others based upon how they decide to express their faith.

    Good for you.

    I disagree.

    Moreover, I could easily come up with numerous examples where you would decide to judge others based upon how they express their religious beliefs.  So it's not a question of whether we judge others based upon their religious beliefs ... it's a question of where we draw the line.  I choose to draw the line in a different spot, although as I've indicated all along, it's not an issue I care much about.  The players are free to pray to God to win the game or thank God for winning the game.  I'm free to think God has much more important things to worry about.  As I said, if that bothers you so much, well ..

    ... I guess you'll have to learn to deal with it.

    Watch yourself getting down, now ... that's a mighty tall equine.


    Why do you assume (none / 0) (#36)
    by CoralGables on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 02:06:00 PM EST
    every football player is praying for a victory. Maybe they are praying for their sick child. Maybe they are praying for world peace. Maybe they aren't praying at all and they just have gas. Maybe they are just following the sage advice of Crash Davis and taking a quiet moment to think about their post game press conference clichés.

    The thing with Tebow is it's sincere (none / 0) (#42)
    by MKS on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 02:44:22 PM EST
    He is very demonstrative about everything.

    I wouldn't mind it if Tibetan Buddhists were to worship overtly in public.....

    I don't care that Tebow does it too....

    Gingrich on the other hand.....pure yuck, pure politics


    Jim, you're ignoring (none / 0) (#53)
    by Zorba on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 04:46:56 PM EST
    Matthew 6:5-6:  
    And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

    PS (none / 0) (#55)
    by Zorba on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 04:52:05 PM EST
    And, by the way, I really have no problem, personally, with Tebow's public expressions of faith, just as I would have no problem with anyone's public expressions of lack of faith or cynicism about faith.  But I did want to point out that the Bible has other pertinent quotes.   ;-)

    Nope, I didn't (none / 0) (#58)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 05:57:03 PM EST
    please see comment #19.

    I could (none / 0) (#12)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 10:22:55 AM EST
    care less for one but I really don't think "touchdown Jesus" really helps religion much. It makes football look like a religion instead.

    Football look like a religion? (none / 0) (#18)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 11:24:57 AM EST
    Well, it does have its fanatics.

    Of course, football is religion (none / 0) (#35)
    by MKS on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 01:53:55 PM EST
    Look at at the giant cathedrals.

    Thousands of years from now, the remnants of our society will be the statues, busts, and stadiums.....

    We worship and idolize the players.....

    Or, one could say we are just going back to our ancient Greek roots....and gods and heroes from that era--Hercules, Atlas, Achilles, Ajax.


    It's certainly a religion and (none / 0) (#37)
    by brodie on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 02:07:50 PM EST
    battlefield for superheroes in the South.  That's where they either put up monuments or rename major boulevards for their winning coaches or run 'em outta town in the dead of night just ahead of the pitchfork 'n' shotgun brigade.

    Other regions it's far more of a sane situation comparatively and most coaches don't have to worry about death threats when they fail to win the Big Game.  At least not out here in laid back CA.


    I couldn't even name the UCLA coach (none / 0) (#41)
    by MKS on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 02:38:50 PM EST
    And LA doesn't care that it doesn't have an NFL team.

    That was totally expected. (none / 0) (#66)
    by caseyOR on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 07:17:51 PM EST
    I'll not shed any tears for Neuheisel. It will be interesting to see who UCLA hires. Chris Peterson (Boise State) is, of course) thought to be on the Bruins' wish list. Also, there are whispers up here that former Ducks' head coach Mike Bellotti could be in the running.

    If Bellotti is offered the job and accepts it that could stir things up with the Oregon staff. A couple of Ducks' assistant coaches could move with Mike to UCLA.

    In other head coaching news, Urban Meyer is heading to Columbus, Ohio as the Buckeyes new head football coach.


    Not just the south (none / 0) (#56)
    by cal1942 on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 04:53:55 PM EST
    How about Woody Hayes Rd in Columbus or Knute Rockne Dr in South Bend or statue of Joe Paterno in State College.

    And I am free to tune out (none / 0) (#24)
    by ruffian on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 12:16:06 PM EST
    of football games that show more religion expression than I care to see.

    I know the TV stations are not exactly quaking in their boots at the loss of my viewership...I am hardly their target market, since I never buy Bud or Miller or Doritos.


    Freedom of religion... (none / 0) (#32)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 01:23:13 PM EST
    and freedom to mock overt religous displays...let freedom ring baby!

    What I don't get is why our heathen harping on the Jesus fetish bothers some believers so...it don't seem to bother Tebow, he seems to expect it, as should all those who wear their religion on their sleeve.  

    If you're secure in your beliefs a little ribbing shouldn't bother ya...besides, we're non-believers...what do we know, we are damned! lol:)


    I really think that Denver's offense is .... (none / 0) (#17)
    by magster on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 11:24:04 AM EST
    ... fascinating to watch. I can never remember a QB whose running prowess was ever featured as a key component of the offensive game plan. The Chargers held back their pass rush on the rare occassions Tebow did throw, and there were 2 or 3 times where Tebow had as much as 8 seconds to throw. Defenses don't know what to do, and if Tebow becomes halfway decent at passing, the offense is going to be lethal.

    It's fun to be a Bronco fan again.

    I think, though, at some point, defenses (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 12:01:52 PM EST
    will figure it out, at which point, Tebow's inability to make plays with his arm is going to be a factor.

    I'm not really up on all the particulars of Denver's offensive schemes, or their personnel issues - as in, does Tebow have enough weapons to throw to - but as a Ravens fan, who remembers quite well the 2000 Super Bowl season, where Trent Dilfer managed an offense that failed, in five consecutive games, to score a touchdown - and still found ways to win with field goals - I don't understand why people are so up in arms about Tebow-ball and, in spite of the streak of wins, are still deeming it  impossible for the Broncos to win while playing it.  

    True, it's a much more pass-happy league than it was a decade ago - even the rules have changed to make it  more so - but the other component that has to be present for it all to work is a smothering defense - one that can prevent teams from scoring, period.  I'm not sure Denver has that component to the extent it would need it against teams with better offenses.  

    It just annoys me when I hear commentators saying that teams shouldn't be able to do this or that, when the evidence that they can is happening right in front of them.  But then, I am not overly impressed these days with most of the network guys covering games; I'm pretty sick of them having these meaningless "conversations" between themselves and failing to actually call plays or pay attention to what's happening on the field.  Gregg Gumbel and Dan Dierdorff are one example of a team I simply cannot stand to listen to - they are next to useless, in my opinion.

    Anyway - I'm for anything that makes it fun to watch one's team play; if Tebow's getting it done for Denver, more power to him, and more power to the coaches who are helping it happen.


    Denver fans should (none / 0) (#64)
    by MKS on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 06:51:38 PM EST
    thank God for Von Miller.  

    He deserves more press along with the rest of the Bronco Defense.


    That's because (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by rdandrea on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 12:10:09 PM EST
    I can never remember a QB whose running prowess was ever featured as a key component of the offensive game plan.

    Most teams don't want to get their QBs killed.


    True. But T is built for it. (none / 0) (#27)
    by christinep on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 12:25:56 PM EST
    So are most running backs (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by rdandrea on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 12:28:00 PM EST
    And their average career in the NFL is about four years.

    True, Michael Vick couldn't do it (none / 0) (#61)
    by MKS on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 06:43:30 PM EST

    QBs get killed on pass rushes when they are... (none / 0) (#30)
    by magster on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 12:33:03 PM EST
    ... vulnerable sitting ducks. Most of the time Tebow is hit when he runs, he's braced for it. Being a 240 pound tank helps. Don't think Darell Revis wanted any of Tebow the prior game.

    Probably right but in the NFL (none / 0) (#38)
    by brodie on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 02:20:14 PM EST
    QBs who run as much as Tebow is right now tend to end up being carted off the field eventually as the defenses adjust or the stakes get higher in playoff time and the motivation is greater to take out the opponent's most effective weapon.  

    And you can't brace for what you don't see -- one of these games a kamikaze linebacker or DB is going to go flying at his head or knees with tremendous velocity and that will be the end of the brief era of Tebow running fearlessly around the field every other play.  Not recommending anything, just saying this is the NFL and that's how it usually ends up for young QBs used to running a lot.


    Staubach used to run a lot (none / 0) (#62)
    by MKS on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 06:44:39 PM EST
    But then again he retired early becasue he was worried about concusssions....(and this was in 1979)

    Yes but like all the other (none / 0) (#67)
    by brodie on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 08:08:43 PM EST
    great run-inclined QBs who had success in college with that approach, eventually in the pros Staubach, Steve Young, Randall Cunningham, Michael Vick et al became more pocket passers, with the runs not usually designed plays as with Tebow currently but scrambles out of a designed pass.

    I expect Tebow to follow in this tradition -- fewer designed running plays as his pocket passing skills evolve and as he gets hit hard more often from running too much.


    Denver media is something today (none / 0) (#25)
    by christinep on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 12:22:51 PM EST
    Listening while getting ready for a.m. dog-walk, people on radio stations saying all kinds of things...with brio, zest, energy. One said: Denver has been waiting for awhile for an exciting quarterback/exciting season, and now here it is, & it is fun.

    Something is different if the first thing to look at on Monday morning is the sports page in the Post. There, sportwriter Mark Kiszla wrote: "In recent days, I've heard a barber in Montana and a rental-car agent in California both testify they are not Broncos fans but have started cheering for Tebow because pro sports cry out for more inherent goodness." That's an interesting comment...which might have something to it, much broader than a religious proclamation. For example, some years back, a number of players had various (and sometimes petty) criminal charges, etc. lodged against them...also, while we didn't have any animal cruelty issues involving teams members, we had our share of immature acting-out where the wannabe "coach" McDaniels made more headlines clashing with his pouty quarterback than for any positive game reasons...etc.

    It feels good to watch the team start to cohere with this quarterback...and win. It feels good to be rid of the bad-boy-stupid acts in recent Denver vintage. And, for me, it feels good especially to confound the "experts" (if only for a time.)

    As for the running game: 'Seems you have to go back pretty far to find that type of running. Maybe an old Chicago team?


    Eh (none / 0) (#34)
    by lilburro on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 01:51:35 PM EST
    if Tebow is a good person, it's not because of he has his particular religious beliefs.  In terms of the NFL, one of the few players who jump out to me is Drew Brees, who does a lot of charity work.  Another whose name I can't remember is the Hawaiian-born linebacker or defensive end who stands up for GLBT rights regularly.

    The Kiszla quote does not mention (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by christinep on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 03:22:35 PM EST
    religious beliefs (nor did I.) What is coming clearer in Denvertown is that the "difference" just might involve someone who--thus far--comports himself with respect for players, the people of the city, others in general. Genuine niceness...the un-jerk quality that in so many celebrity areas (including sports) seems to be in hiding. A player who--thus far--is winning...and, is imbuing team spirit. A good guy.

    Yep, IMO & as you point out, Brees and others (K. Warner) were/are example of good guy-ness.

    Without putting on blinders, that increasingly rare good guy-ness quality among top professional athletes has an allure of itself that we want to cheer. For one thing, it softens the obvious $$$-driven hardness of big time sport.


    And Tebow (none / 0) (#39)
    by CoralGables on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 02:22:58 PM EST
    who has committed to funding half the cost of an orthopedic children's hospital in the Philippines. Although I was pretty much told the other day here that funding a children's hospital on a poor island doesn't qualify as good works unless he rolls up his sleeves and builds it himself.

    In addition to the ones you have mentioned, also add Warrick Dunn to your list.


    As a quarterback (none / 0) (#20)
    by smott on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 11:50:15 AM EST
    Tebow is a great runner.

    Love to watch him play, very exciting, (none / 0) (#75)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Nov 30, 2011 at 12:01:45 AM EST
    but I can read Siddhartha between the time when he decides to pass and when the ball actually leaves his hand. Not sure such a glaring hole in mechanics can be sustainable in the long run.

    Ah well, I'm sure he'll be just as comfortable in the announcers booth...