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Police Trainer:"I'm looking at standard police procedure"

Sometimes "what is standard procedure" is the scandal:

Charles J. Kelly, a former Baltimore Police Department lieutenant who wrote the department's use of force guidelines, said pepper spray is a "compliance tool" that can be used on subjects who do not resist, and is preferable to simply lifting protesters. "When you start picking up human bodies, you risk hurting them," Kelly said. "Bodies don't have handles on them."

After reviewing the video, Kelly said [. . .] "What I'm looking at is fairly standard police procedure[.]"

(Emphasis supplied.)Worth noting this from former Baltimore cop and John Jay College of Criminal Justice sociologist Peter Moskos:

In the police academy, I was taught to pepper-spray people for non-compliance. Ie: ďPut your hands behind your back or IíllÖ mace you.Ē Itís crazy. Of course we didnít do it this way, the way were taught. Baltimore police officers are too smart to start urban race riots based on some dumb-ass training. So what did we do to gain compliance? We grabbed people. Hands on. Like real police. And we were good at it.

Some people, perhaps those who design training programs, think policing should be a hands-off job. It canít be and shouldnít be. And trying to make policing too hands-off means people get Tased and maced for non-compliance. Itís not right. But this is the way many police are trained. Thatís a shame.

Mr. Moskos, meet Mr.Kelly.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Just so (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by sj on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 09:43:49 PM EST
    Sometimes "what is standard procedure" is the scandal:
    Did he really say this without irony?
    "When you start picking up human bodies, you risk hurting them," Kelly said. "Bodies don't have handles on them."
    Police use tasers and pepper spray and batons and Kelly is oh-so-concerned about hurting human bodies?

    What I've been concerned about (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by shoephone on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 12:19:21 AM EST
    I'm just waiting (with a very sick feeling in my stomach) for the OWS incident that ends with the cops tasing people. Tasers are NOT safe -- over 400 people have been killed by them. They are an instrument of torture, and the minute one is used at these protests is the moment the movement will become serioulsy radicalized. The videos of cops tasing protestors will go viral on the web within hours. The police and the jackboots from Homeland Security will not even understand they have unleashed.

    Parent
    taser absence is the evidence (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Palli on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 08:08:57 AM EST
    The absence of tasers now is clear evidence that police know the "tool" is dangerous and vicious.

    The first incident where cops use tasers (condoned by higher authority or a personal decision by "rogue" cop should be the shot over Fort Sumter.

    Parent

    That's got to be (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Edger on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 08:07:58 AM EST
    an awfully high pressure spray can if Kelly thinks he can use it to lift human bodies and move them out of the way without touching them.

    Is absolute delusion and total disconnection from reality now standard operating procedure for the cops?

    Parent

    Someone tases someone like me with a (none / 0) (#28)
    by Amiss on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 09:02:23 PM EST
    pacemaker installed, will be in deep kaka. It has a very high risk of killing a person with a pacemaker. Charge th4e cop?

    Parent
    Late tonight (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by Madeline on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 12:02:08 AM EST
    Chancellor Kotehi walking to her car:

    http://tinyurl.com/7hk3rca

    Brilliant and powerful.

    Incredibly powerful (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by honora on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 08:49:29 AM EST
    The students did a great job.  I was very moved by their actions.  

    Parent
    Three block of students (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by MO Blue on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 08:54:09 AM EST
    in silent protest. Powerful indeed.

    Katehi remained in a media room for more than two hours after the news conference, eventually walking to an SUV past a group of students nearly three blocks long who, in a coordinated effort, remained completely silent. The Sacramento Bee said.


    Parent
    Very (none / 0) (#15)
    by Edger on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 08:14:09 AM EST
    She looks absolutely cowed and shamed in that.

    A perp walk.

    Parent

    James Fallows, The Atlantic: (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 12:47:18 AM EST
    I can't see any legitimate basis for police action like what is shown here. Watch that first minute and think how we'd react if we saw it coming from some riot-control unit in China, or in Syria. The calm of the officer who walks up and in a leisurely way pepper-sprays unarmed and passive people right in the face? We'd think: this is what happens when authority is unaccountable and has lost any sense of human connection to a subject population. That's what I think here.

    Less than two months ago, it seemed shocking when one NYPD officer cavalierly walked up to a group of female protestors and pepper-sprayed them in the eyes. The UC Davis pepper-sprayer doesn't slink away, as his NYPD counterpart did, but in every other way this is more coldly brutal. And by the way, when did we accept the idea that local police forces would always dress up in riot gear that used to be associated with storm troopers and dystopian sci-fi movies?




    Maybe it's Time to Occupy the Police State? (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 12:54:01 AM EST
    - from of all places, Forbes Magazine:

    Maybe it's time to Occupy more than Wall Street. I mean, I see that it's all wound together. I really do appreciate the focus on crony capitalism and the revolving door between Washington D.C. and Wall Street. But the increasingly scary portrait of an ever more powerful, unhampered system of law enforcement really does worry me. These incidents illustrate why it should worry everyone, regardless of your class or political stripe.



    I saw that last night (none / 0) (#20)
    by sj on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 12:48:48 PM EST
    But was too soul-weary to link.  Thanks for doing so.

    Parent
    The Evolution of Police State Response: (5.00 / 4) (#7)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 01:08:51 AM EST
    the more i look at this, (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by cpinva on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 10:43:14 AM EST
    and other video evidence, of other police misconduct around the country, my concern that there will be a violent backlash against the police increases. some people take being brutalized by the police the wrong way, not as a sign that they must acquiesce, but as a reason to protect themselves. these silly people may well lash out, and someone, in spite of their military garb, will be seriously injured, if not killed, as a result.

    anything can be used as a weapon, it needn't be a gun or knife. a rock or stick, propelled with sufficient force, can cause an awful lot of physical damage, even death. a well sharpened branch, applied with enough force, will penetrate most chest armor, of the non-ceramic variety. a baseball bat, normally a toy used in a game will, when swung hard enough, crack a police riot helmet, and possibly the skull ensconced inside. just ask any veteran of vietnam, or the gulf wars, how dangerous everyday objects can be, when applied with malicious intent.

    perhaps this is actually the plan, to provoke a violent response, giving the police a seemingly legitimate reason to use deadly force against the protesters. we've already had instances of unintentional(?) severe physical damage, resulting from the police use of (less than) lethal projectiles. the use of lethal force, i fear, cannot be far away.

    Yes, it's the 1880s redux (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Towanda on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 07:04:58 PM EST
    and that did not end well for some workers and some police officers.

    The similarities are eerie.

    Parent

    That is also my fear (none / 0) (#19)
    by sj on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 12:48:09 PM EST
    The police are being provocative.  

    Parent
    We make such claims to be (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 03:18:29 PM EST
    this wonderful magical freedom giving and preserving democracy, but many times we have lost our way along the way.  THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING.  Perhaps we should be concerned about losing all credibility on the world stage. Or maybe not.  What degree of the Mubarak regime are we operating at today?

    No, you should not. (none / 0) (#23)
    by Edger on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 03:40:11 PM EST
    You might want to be concerned about the US Government and the people who own and operate it losing all credibility on the world stage, or about what degree of the Mubarak regime are THEY operating at today, and I'd agree with you 100%.

    But I'll go out on what I think is a very strong limb here that will have no problem supporting my weight and extrapolate from the Americans I know and talk to everyday... and state flatly and unequivocally that I think that 95% or more of Americans are like people I meet from anywhere else (and I live in a city that is arguably one of the most friendly and multicultural cities in the world) and for that at least 95% if not 99% are probably great people.

    And every day lately I'm watching this wonderful magical freedom giving and preserving democracy being exampled by the Occupiers.

    And it's about farkin' time the United States was occupied by people delivering freedom and democracy, btw... don' you thin, Lucy?

    Watch it live

    So there. Don't even thin about f'in arguing with me either.

    Andale! Andale! Arriba! Arriba!

    Zapa-farkin'-TISTA, baby! Comprende?

    Suck it up, and try to have a nice day, eh?

    Parent

    And don't forget to click those links (none / 0) (#24)
    by Edger on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 03:41:09 PM EST
    or else.

    Parent
    Also (none / 0) (#26)
    by sj on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 07:10:02 PM EST
    this.  And I love the music, too.

    Parent
    Good one. Thanks... (none / 0) (#27)
    by Edger on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 07:16:35 PM EST
    Hands on is now preferred? (2.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Gerald USN Ret on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 01:51:20 AM EST
    What about just obeying police orders.

    These people supposedly surrounded the cops, and this was considered threatening.  They were told to move back.  They didn't.

    Now yes if you have linebacker cops that can just reach out and pick up a protestor that has linked arms with his fellows and gently move him back, that might work.

    I can see the new police academy requirements now.  Want 300 pound candidates that can gently snatch 5 people (about 800 to 1000 pounds) from the side walk and deposit them back 10 feet.

    If the policemen have to engage physically (hand to hand) with these people there will be a lot more violence, because then the police will really feel they have to be more violent to protect themselves.

    Tear gas, pepper spray, water cannon are more gentle than tasers or rubber bullets and a great deal more gentle than police batons or flashlights.

    If you start having to wrestle people it will quickly escalate to the batons or flashlights (at night).

    You must have missed it (5.00 / 5) (#9)
    by shoephone on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 02:04:16 AM EST
    Protestors have already been beaten by the police in NYC, Oakland, and other cities in the last few weeks -- punched in the face, thrown to the ground and beaten with batons.

    The authoritarian police-state you slobber for is already here.

    Parent

    gee gerald, why should i obey an illegal order? (5.00 / 4) (#10)
    by cpinva on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 04:32:16 AM EST
    presumably, you were taught that in basic school, as it's part of the UCMJ. as you should well know, the mere fact that someone in authority orders you to do something does not, by definition, make it legal. those cops were ordering people to stop exercising their constitutional rights, rights that a lot of blood and treasure have been shed for. shame on you.

    chief kelly better get his eyes examined, quickly, before he wrecks his car. what i see is assault & battery, under color of law. i believe that's a felony, in pretty much every jurisdiction in the country. just because some nitwit police trainer teaches you to commit an illegal act, doesn't make it legal. it's still illegal.

    what will stop this is a few harsh examples being made: indictments, convictions, jail time and huge personal fines, as well as huge judgments against the cities. it's all they know.

    Parent

    oops, my error. (none / 0) (#11)
    by cpinva on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 04:36:43 AM EST
    that should have been "former police Lt. kelly", not chief kelly. thank goodness he's a "former".

    Parent
    Watxch the video (5.00 / 4) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 08:06:04 AM EST
    and stop with the "supposedly."

    IF you think the use of pepper spray it was justified after watching the video, then there is more than a bit of monster in you.

    Parent

    Enormous difference (none / 0) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 03:15:21 PM EST
    Between the military and civilian life.  As if all police officers are sweet Jesus in a uniform and only have our best interests at heart.  Sometimes I completely understand your posts but not when it comes to civilian life and the rights of Americans.  This is a democracy, you served a democracy.  Perhaps you too would have been just as comfortable in a black uniform with a skull and cross bones on it too though as a precious few others I know of in a United States uniform.  Perhaps it wasn't who you served and what it all stood for and what was protected, perhaps for you it was only about getting off on exercising authority.

    Parent
    Remember that face- Lt. Pike (none / 0) (#2)
    by Palli on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 09:56:15 PM EST
    If Lt. Pike at UC-Davis is strutting in his glory daintly pointing his spray can. That is standard procedure?  The term Homeland Security was deliberately adopted for the haunting legacy from Mid 20th Century Europe.