Friday Afternoon Open Thread

Busy day. Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    White House Press Release (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 02:01:37 PM EST
    In Statement To Press Barack Obama Sides With 99% in Occupy Movement
    November 18, 2011

    As the situation continues to unfold, our first concern is preventing injury or loss of life. So I want to be very clear in calling upon the... authorities to refrain from any violence against peaceful protesters.

    The people... have rights that are universal. That includes the right to peaceful assembly and association, the right to free speech, and the ability to determine their own destiny.

    These are human rights. And the United States will stand up for them everywhere.

    Violence will not address the grievances of the... people. And suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away.


    Obama apparently will also issue a statement Saturday announcing that he has decided after much fruitless soul searching to not seek re-election for a second term as president, but rather will be joining The Onion as author of a new syndicated column tentatively to be titled "Reality Stinks".

    The President Hopes the country will appreciate the Change.

    Then my next statement to him is (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 02:45:43 PM EST
    PROVE IT!  He's been for all sorts of things until he gets behind closed doors :)

    Ssshhh... (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 04:14:31 PM EST
    He may be a liar - but he's a really lousy liar.

    Obama has never approached the masterful response of his party's last President: "Well, I meant it when I said it."


    The right to peaceully (none / 0) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 04:13:40 PM EST
    assemble doesn't mean you have the right to take over public streets, parks and harass the general public....

    Or, as reported on WCBS (NY) school children.

    What brave people these are.


    I agree (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 04:17:18 PM EST
        Democracy is not seizing the streets and keeping others from going about their business

        Your free speech rights end when they interfere with the rights of others.

    It's the end of the line for idiots like bloomberg and quan and the other mayors sending goon squads out to attack Americans, and for all the cops attacking protesters all over the country, and for anyone else supporting seizing the streets and keeping others from going about their business and interfering with their rights.


    You make me giggle (none / 0) (#45)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 04:39:37 PM EST
    I mean, really.

    Do you believe the stuff you write?


    Yes we do (5.00 / 3) (#61)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 05:28:43 PM EST
    I know you do. (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 06:31:03 PM EST
    Edger? I'm not sure.

    You mean (none / 0) (#49)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 04:53:00 PM EST
    you're not rooting for the goons attacking the protesters?

    Why is it (none / 0) (#95)
    by Amiss on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 11:37:40 PM EST
    that those same people you listed cheered for the folks in Egypt and Libya and Syria et al when they were trying to do the same thing? Yet, when it inconveniences them, it's another story?

    There are a few differences between the (none / 0) (#104)
    by tigercourse on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 12:17:01 AM EST
    United States and Egypt/Syria/Libya.

    When our numbers are so great (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 05:28:16 PM EST
    That upon peacefully assembling it affects the general public, that means it is the time that you now have to listen to us.  At least two of our founding fathers specifically witnessed France's struggle against the oligarchy while our own nation was being founded, and they all knew how oligarchy's maintain power via their dealings with the European aristocracy. I have ZERO doubt that they intended for our right to peacefully assemble to be able to do exactly what it is doing right this minute when the oligarchy has become so powerful that enormous swathes of us have become disenfranchised and without representation.  Tough toenails Jim, the founding fathers are getting exactly what they intended and the great grand experiment continues.

    It has long been clear, to me, (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by KeysDan on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 04:58:31 PM EST
    that failure of the Super Committee or failure of the Congress to adopt its work, would be the best outcome of the 20ll Budget Control Act.  In today's NYT, Paul Krugman opines "if the super committee fails as expected, it will be time to celebrate."

    Moreover, it also seemed glaringly apparent that any deal would not be "balanced" but, rather,  "unbalanced" between cuts and revenues, and unbalanced  between cuts to domestic programs and military and security.  The Supers were in many ways designed as a second chance for President Obama's failed Cat Food I, although its work product would likely make us pine for Bowles and Simpson, or at least for Bowles. The debt ceiling artifice and the deficit panic provided a potential shroud for the social safety net.

    Professor Krugman, at this point, also concludes that any deal reached now would, in practice, be nothing more than a deal to slash Medicare and Social Security.

    While it is my earnest hope that the Super Committee (aka Cat Food II) fails, I fear that most of the leveraging Democratic lawmakers are playing with us, setting up low expectations and high bars, only for a subsequent cave masquerading as a bold bipartisan achievement.  Emanuel (Satan Sandwich) Cleaver is reported to have tempered his critique and others are putting the Bush tax cuts in their favorite place--on the table.  

    As for the GOP's frustration that President Obama wants the supers to fail to bolster his re-election, it is just another indication of their clinical delusion.  Although a failure will help the president's re-election, I do not believe he thinks that is the case.  He is going for the gold: that "bipartisan" agreement to capture those Republican-leaning Independents. And, to quell those "investor's" fears for "uncertainty".  

    Sequestration with its two percent across the board auto-cuts, in equal parts to Defense/Security and Domestic programs over ten years, starting in 2013 is the best deal--it exempts social security, medicare, most of medicaid, most VA  benefits, and help for the poorest of us.  Military spending exempts military pay cuts, but does affect civilians and contractors.   If serious security issues could be demonstrated, funds could always be restored, later.  It would be much more difficult to restore, for example, Medicare eligibility age to 65 after being changed to 67, especially if that was the real "bipartisan" goal.

    I'm confused (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by nycstray on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 05:18:56 PM EST
    why does the GOP think Obama wants the supers to fail=bolster his reelection? Wasn't the SC something Obama wanted so he could get his Grand Bargain or whatever the f*ck he wants (gutting the safety net)?

    It doesn't have to make sense, stray (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by sj on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 05:31:54 PM EST
    This is the GOP we're talking about...

    My poor brain just can't handle (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by nycstray on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 05:44:13 PM EST
    this crap anymore. Bad enough we have Obama on "our" side . . .

    Meanwhile, back at the ranch, countries (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 05:41:49 PM EST
    who decided austerity would really help them get a grip on their economy and get it rebounding are finding that - surprise! - it's not working that way.  Of course, it's not like there weren't a lot of economists warning against austerity as the solution to what was ailing these countries...

    Are the deficit hawks really so convinced that somehow austerity will affect us differently than it does other economies that they simply refuse to look around and learn the lessons from what these other countries are experiencing?

    And are they so determined to eliminate the social safety net that they are willing to trash the economy to do it?

    The whole thing just makes my head hurt.


    Who needs an MBA? (none / 0) (#68)
    by NYShooter on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 06:15:55 PM EST
    CEO: "Ok, fellas, what can we do to increase our flat sales?"

    Sycophant #1: "I got it! Lets cut our employees to the bone, reduce their wages, cut their benefits, cut their hours, and let's make life so miserable for them they wouldn't dream of asking for more. And, just to be sure, let's send as many jobs overseas  to show them what happens when they start thinking of asking for livable conditions. When they don't have a spare nickel in their pocket, they'll know who's boss."

    CEO: "Yeah, you betcha; that`ll send sales skyrocketing. "Sych," you're gonna be a superstar!


    I have a migraine. (none / 0) (#98)
    by Amiss on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 11:55:19 PM EST

    I am sick of "Committees" (none / 0) (#97)
    by Amiss on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 11:50:08 PM EST
    and I think we here all know what they are designed for from our government. In my lifetime, I can not think of one that ever REALLY accomplished anything of value. I don't know about you, but I am sick and tired of paying over $200 for $20 toilet seats for these yahoos..

    the presidential campaign (none / 0) (#1)
    by CST on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 01:41:03 PM EST
    is heating up in MA.  New information has recently come out about the actions of some staffers who worked for Romney when he was governor.  

    "The report, which included documents obtained from Patrick's office, described how former Romney officials took their computers with them when they left their jobs and how Romney aides replaced email servers and computers before leaving office. The report said that 11 of Romney's top aides purchased 17 state-issued computers for $65 each when they left their jobs. Several of Romney's top aides in the governor's office later worked for his 2008 presidential bid.

    The Massachusetts public records law doesn't apply to the governor's office, so there appears to be nothing illegal with the Romney-era move."

    Anyway now Mitt Romney has come out attacking Deval Patrick for "become(ing) an opposition research arm of the Obama reelection campaign" and is demanding they release any correspondance between the governor and the Obama campaign.

    The response from the current governor:  "We have fulfilled over 250 public records requests in our five years in office and we will be happy to fulfill this one"

    Then let's see the emails (none / 0) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 04:09:43 PM EST
    But I won't hold my breath.

    which emails? (none / 0) (#41)
    by CST on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 04:27:01 PM EST
    the ones from the Romney administration?  I wouldn't hold my breath either.  They are long gone.

    Somehow I think you mean correspondance between Patrick and the Obama admin.  But here's the thing - even if he did find this out on the request of Obama - so what?  It's not like he made it up.  What happened, happened.  I don't see why he shouldn't make that information public.

    I mean, it's not like the DNC is being "coy" here.  Of course they want info on the Romney administration record.  And the current governer seems like a reasonable person to ask.  In fact, from the original article, they pretty much acknowladge as much:

    "As a result, Patrick's office, which has been bombarded with inquiries for records from the Romney era, has no electronic record of any Romney administration e-mails, Reilly said."

    Why shouldn't they comply with those inquiries?


    here's the other thing Jim (none / 0) (#42)
    by CST on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 04:32:23 PM EST
    It's not like Patrick is pretending not to campaign for Obama.

    This is obvious, it's what politicians do during presidential election years.

    Romney is trying to use this to paint Patrick as a "bad governor" for not focusing on his primary duty.  Which is just laughable because Mitt Romney spent his entire last year as governer running for president bashing his home state and completely ignoring any problems here.

    A little friendly campaigning on the side is nothing, and for Mitt Romney, of all people, to whine about it - requires a certain level of hubris.


    The emails that I would like to see: (none / 0) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 04:36:06 PM EST
    Anyway now Mitt Romney has come out attacking Deval Patrick for "become(ing) an opposition research arm of the Obama reelection campaign" and is demanding they release any correspondance between the governor and the Obama campaign.

    And a politician with hubris??

    Surely you jest.



    so no concern then (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by CST on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 04:37:05 PM EST
    about all the ones deleted that actually pertain to someone's record while governing?

    I'm glad we've got our priorities straight.


    Looks like he purchased the computers and (none / 0) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 04:43:46 PM EST
    violated no law.

    Would I like to see emails?

    Yeah. On Solyndra.... the guns lost in Mexico farce...


    With Deval Patrick (none / 0) (#51)
    by CST on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 04:54:17 PM EST
    the governor of MA?  Go nuts.  MA doesn't have any guns to sell Mexico.  We get all of ours illegally from NH.  And why would the Governor of MA be involved with a loan to a solar panel company in CA?  Believe it or not, we compete with CA for technology companies, and the gov. works pretty d@mn hard at getting the ones there to come here.  He is probably the last person who would advocate for a loan for a tech company based in Cali.

    Meanwhile, they are still undecided as to whether it's illegal under MA law, with conflicting statements that suggest whiping the servers at the very least might be.  Even if it's not illegal, it's still really freaking suspicious.

    And it's not just Democrats who think so.

    "Romney's three predecessors -- Jane Swift, Paul Cellucci and William Weld -- are like him, Republicans. Patrick is a Democrat.

    Stephen Crosby, who worked in the Swift and Cellucci administrations, tells The Boston Globe ( http://b.globe.com/rROuHb) the sale of computer hard drives is "almost unthinkable."


    "On Solyndra" (none / 0) (#65)
    by NYShooter on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 05:45:44 PM EST
    You know, Jim, sometimes if you just give your computer a nice sharp smack on its side that broken record annoyance skips a slot and you can move on.

    Unless, of course, you're waiting for Rush to give you the "all's clear."


    DeNial (none / 0) (#70)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 06:25:54 PM EST
    aint just a river in Ergypt.

    Nope (none / 0) (#78)
    by NYShooter on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 06:47:16 PM EST
    there's one in Egypt also



    And maybe (none / 0) (#82)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 09:07:15 PM EST
    you can tell me "ware" it is??


    I mean you opened the door.


    Astros Going to American League in 2013 (none / 0) (#2)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 01:41:44 PM EST

    That does suck... (none / 0) (#3)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 01:47:00 PM EST
    why not send the Brewers back?

    Never a WS appearance, but alotta NL history in Houston, namely the epic Mets v 'Stros '86 NLCS.


    And a new one-game wild card (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 01:50:32 PM EST
    event: mlb.com

    One thing you learn is that baseball is a metaphor for life and nothing's perfect. But I think people are excited about it. They should be."
     [Bud Selig.]

    In light... (none / 0) (#5)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 01:50:36 PM EST
    of last night's debacle in Denver...I am making an appointment for a born-again baptism tomorrow before rec league playoffs Sunday.  

    Apparently that Jesus stuff is better than HGH on a rabbit's foot...

    HGH on a rabbit's foot? Special powers? (none / 0) (#6)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 01:52:17 PM EST
    if he could pass (none / 0) (#88)
    by MKS on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 09:42:18 PM EST
    even a little he would remind me of Staubach.

    I don't know about Jesus stuff (none / 0) (#11)
    by rdandrea on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 02:12:56 PM EST
    But it's certainly what happens when you put 11 men in the box including the safeties.

    Note to Rex.... (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 02:17:49 PM EST
    all-out pass blitzes are typically called against teams that...umm, pass.

    kdog (none / 0) (#16)
    by CoralGables on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 02:42:58 PM EST
    I believe it's less Jesus stuff and more the measurable stuff like 6'3", 240, a little speed, and fearless.

    The will to win part and playing football with the heart of a child, that's not measurable but just as tough to stop and extra painful when he inflicts it on your team. Even as a Jets fan you had to shake your head in amazement at how he took over during that 95 yard drive.


    No doubt... (none / 0) (#19)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 02:49:46 PM EST
    Tebow can ball...though I remain unconvinced at his long-term prospects as a NFL starter...the Wildcat was all the rage for half a season, then defenses caught up...same will happen with the zone read option.

    Now I'm also unconvinced Sanchez has long-term prospects as a NFL starter...he's nearly as inaccurate as Tebow, and he sure as hell can't run the option.


    It helps when your (none / 0) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 04:11:31 PM EST
    born again QB is a pretty darn good athlete......

    Playing the second worst QB in the NFL.



    Here's a blanket/snuggie you can put... (none / 0) (#58)
    by magster on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 05:20:44 PM EST
    ... on your X-mas gift wish-list.

    I'm sure BTD would like one too.


    You know (none / 0) (#71)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 06:29:06 PM EST
    I can't figure out the hostility against Tebow because he is up front about being a born again christian.

    Why doesn't he have that right??

    Can anyone tell me when the Church Police showed up and made them go to church?


    Didn't think so.


    I'm not hostile... (none / 0) (#74)
    by magster on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 06:36:07 PM EST
    I have a blanket.

    Seriously, I hated Orton's effect on the team and the constant losing and Tebow gives us Bronco fans hope. Granted, these games are boring until the 4th quarters, but I'm as happy as a fan as I've been in a long time.

    Tebow's special, even if I'm not that into his faith/politics/whatever.


    I lived in Littleton for 17 years (none / 0) (#91)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 09:49:09 PM EST
    and in Settle for 4 years before that.

    So I remember Elway's problems and non-believers.

    In the end he was a winner.

    I think, and hope because we can't tell just yet, that also describes Tebow.



    But Elway always (none / 0) (#93)
    by MKS on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 10:18:23 PM EST
    had an arm.....

    Tebow's religiousity does not offend me--it is his not being able to pass the ball that is the problem......


    They had a comparsion (none / 0) (#109)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 07:24:42 AM EST
    on ESPN between Elway and Tebow and Tebow  for the first 10 games or so and Tebow is a lot better.

    Of course that is really meaningless unless you compare the rest of the team so we would know the supporting cast. But I do seem to remember that Elway took over during the regular season as did Tebow.

    I just enjoy watching the game when you see some different plays. Option runs, half back passes, etc.

    His arm strength looks okay to me. He seemed to overthrow more than under. That's a timing issue that can be overcome by practice. And dedication and practice is something that is his strong point. Passing is a learnable skill.

    But I confess to being a Bronco fan so my view may be colored by someone coming in and winning some games.


    We will see how (none / 0) (#112)
    by MKS on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 10:30:59 AM EST
    much can be learned and how much is innate.

    Montana did not have the big arm, either.  But he was very accurate......Tebow is not that, either.  He is like a wreck falling apart as it drives down the street.  But he does drive down the street, so to speak....

    Starr and Griese were the technicians of their era.  No big arms there.

    But Brady and Peyton Manning?  That is pure talent combined with smarts (Manning) and drive (Brady.)  Tebow will never reach those heights.  

    But good enough to win with a tough defense and a running game?  I guess we will find out.


    I don't (none / 0) (#75)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 06:41:03 PM EST
    think it's so much his beliefs as the fact that he's sanctimonious and pushy about them.

    You don't get it, Ga6th.... (none / 0) (#80)
    by NYShooter on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 06:56:37 PM EST
    Jim can only answer questions he asks himself. He puts up a dopey question (that no one asked) and then rides in on his white horse defending the nonexistent question like the (only in his mind) hero he pretends to be.

    You can't answer a hallucination with a rational explanation, no many how many times, or how many posters, have tried.


    And you haven't the capacity to (none / 0) (#83)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 09:09:54 PM EST
    understand that Tebow has received a lot of nasty???

    You never debate. You just snark.

    Since you have self identified as knowing so much, answer my point re gasoline prices.


    Can you give me an example (none / 0) (#84)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 09:14:52 PM EST
    of sanctimonious and pushy?

    "making a hypocritical show of religious devotion, piety, righteousness, et"

    I see many players dropping to their knees and offering thanks to God after they have scored, etc.
    And while that isn't me, I don't see the problem.

    Does his actions make you uncomfortable in relation to your faith?


    Oh, good grief. (none / 0) (#111)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 08:10:07 AM EST
    His sanctimonious advertisement for one. I really don't care about touchdown Jesus but I sure think it's tacky. I think that kind of thing hurts religion more than helps. I mean is football really a religion? They make it sound that way. It's no wonder that 50% of people under the age of 30 have never been to church with people like Tebow as the examples they see of religion.

    If fundamentalists like you and Tebow did a lot less trash talking and more rolling up your sleeves and getting to work it would change a lot of people's opinion of Christianity.


    The t.v. ad was what hurt (none / 0) (#113)
    by MKS on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 10:33:01 AM EST
    Without that, it would have been fine.....Tebow is just naturally very demonstrative.....

    As the (none / 0) (#116)
    by CoralGables on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 11:20:16 AM EST
    non religious, non church going agnostic that I am who has no issues with Tebow, could you point out to me his trash talking and lack of good works in support of your vitriol.

    I'm talking (none / 0) (#118)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 11:55:24 AM EST
    about his yakking about religion. He certainly has the right to say whatever he wants but it comes off as sanctimonious and overbearing. I personally think his alliance with Focus on the Family and their agenda was probably a bad move on his part. Do you think that Focus on the Family does good works?

    Here's what I can find on his (none / 0) (#120)
    by CoralGables on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 12:44:31 PM EST
    lack of good works and trash talking.

    His foundation builds playrooms in children's hospitals around the world through a project known as Timmy's Playrooms.

    In conjunction with Dreams Come True out of Jacksonville, FL, his foundation through a project known as W15H flies children with life threatening illnesses from around the country to Denver for Broncos home games and to be on the field before the game with the Broncos.

    In a partnership with Cure International his foundation is providing half the funding to build a children's orthopedic surgical hospital on the island of Mindanao in the Philippines.

    The foundation provides support to Uncle Dick's Orphanage, also on the island of Mindanao, which is home to 49 children.

    But, I could just dislike him I guess because he's religious and I'm not.


    You know what? (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 01:18:40 PM EST
    Plenty of people do this exact same thing but aren't ugly about it. And when I say "roll up your sleeves" I don't mean running foundations and asking for money. That's easy especially for people that have contacts. I mean getting out and doing it yourself. Go work in a soup kitchen. Get off your duff and help build a house with Habitat for Humanity. I have no problem with Tebow's personal display of religion. I just have a problem with his sanctimonious and condescending "I know better" attitude about it.

    Notre Dame will sue you for trademark (none / 0) (#117)
    by oculus on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 11:25:34 AM EST
    infringement.  "Touchdown Jesus," indeed.  

    Been tryin to tell ya (none / 0) (#99)
    by Amiss on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 12:04:04 AM EST
    that that Timmeh has him some special powers!

    It's not that (none / 0) (#114)
    by MKS on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 10:38:58 AM EST
    but his will and drive and infectious enthusiasm......

    I like the guy.....

    Gifted, fluid, powerful runner. But such an awkward passer.  As if all his gracefulness was poured into his ability to run so none is left when he tries to pass.


    Ever so slowly (none / 0) (#119)
    by christinep on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 12:26:49 PM EST
    I'm turning into an admirer of Tebow too.  Sorta. 'Holding back. Almost.

    How's that for a Broncos follower--Dad had season tickets in the 60s & 70s until he got fed up at the lack of offense in the latter part of the Orange Crush years.... How's that for wanting a qback.... Cutler pouted along withe horrendous McDaniels; Orton couldn't deliver. So, I skeptically watch a bit more each game now (not wanting to get too drawn into the probability/possibility of a down-the-tubes scenario.)

    So, we have seen great defense here in recent games. That can't hold forever. Tebow needs a remedial passing tutorial (a cousin counsels that Stabler was a lefty & developed into a passer.) It also helps for the receivers to catch. Yego & yoi.

    Yet, the team is winning with Tebow and growing more confident with him. Listening to the players--especially one comment that "he sets it up for us to win"--the growing cohesion is obvious now. That is something not seen here for a long time.
    And, he knows how to direct a running game.

    Tebow may have brought a bit of spark to town. Maybe...possibly...hopefully.  In any event, one of the best parts is always watching confounded "experts."


    Michele Bachmann gives herself ... (none / 0) (#7)
    by Yman on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 02:00:16 PM EST
    ... a pat on the back for not making any gaffes.

    I kid you not.

    To be fair, it sort of sounds like she means recently, although she doesn't say it.

    A few weeks ago I had posted about the (none / 0) (#9)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 02:04:54 PM EST
    tragic death of a local HS kid, Griffen Kramer, son of NFL QB Erik Kramer, at my neighbor's house.

    The followup is that yesterday they arrested 5 kids that were involved in some way with the death. My neighbor's 19 y/o son, David, was charged with involuntary manslaughter.

    Apparently David and Griffen (and some others?) were partying at a local park and Griffen became unconcious.

    Allegedly, David dragged Griffen's body to his car and drove him around for a while calling friends asking them what he should do.

    Then David drove home, dragged Griffen's body into David's (parent's) house and left him there while he went out with friends for the rest of the night.

    Griffen was found dead the next AM, from a heroin OD it is suspected.

    Oh, this makes my heart hurt. (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 03:42:39 PM EST
    I can only imagine how often David asks himself why he didn't drive Griffen to an emergency room, or call 911 - anything other than what he did, which was essentially nothing.

    What a tragedy.


    Thanks Anne, everybody. (none / 0) (#52)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 04:57:54 PM EST
    At the very least it's a teaching moment, I hope, for my kids...

    Teach you kids (1.00 / 7) (#81)
    by Rojas on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 08:41:49 PM EST
    before vindictive bitches like you and Anne came along they could take somebody in distress to the EM and they would take care of them...
    Remember that....
    I do.

    WTF are you talking about? (none / 0) (#86)
    by caseyOR on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 09:20:49 PM EST
    If your comment is snark that is so not obvious. And, no matter, your comment is both out of line and nonsensical.

    Also, watch the language. Foul language gets caught by law firm filters and screws things up for Jeralyn.


    Rojas, your comment is 100% trollish (none / 0) (#87)
    by shoephone on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 09:29:17 PM EST
    It deserves a " minus 25" rating, but "1" is lowest, so that's all you get.

    I could care less (none / 0) (#110)
    by Rojas on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 07:36:26 AM EST
    about your rating.
    I've been that 16/17 year old kid who had to rush one of his friends to the emergency room because of a bad reaction to an illegal drug. But that was over thirty years ago. Before just say no, zero tolerance and let's leave a mark on 'em that won't wash off.
    There was still a support system in place. Now days, we've got one message and it's a punitive one. When h works through the community and it will, kids die.

    sincere condolances (none / 0) (#55)
    by CST on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 05:08:56 PM EST
    this $ucks.

    And if there is one thing to teach your kids from this it's "don't do heroin".  I mean that, it seems obvious, but it's not.

    Not that you probably need any advice, but when I was a teenager my parents had a very real conversation with me about drugs.  And what I mean by that is they sat me down and explained how this stuff works.  They didn't lie, they didn't embellish, but they did make me understand the difference between drugs, and because of that I stayed far away from the hard ones, while a lot of my social circle did not.  Let me also say that while this conversation was probably unnecessary for my siblings, I had more of a tendency toward trouble.  So it really made an impactful difference for me.

    Some people take the "don't do anything" approach.  And if that works that's great.  But if you lie to your kids about it, they may not believe you when it comes to the stuff that really matters.

    Again, not that you need that advice, I just thought I'd share what worked for me in what could have been a "danger situation".


    Thanks. How old were you when your parents (none / 0) (#59)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 05:21:49 PM EST
    talked to you?

    Griffen was in rehab (for H I assume) at age 15...


    I was 15 (none / 0) (#66)
    by CST on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 06:01:28 PM EST
    but they didn't just choose that age arbitrarily.  I was a very awkward pre-teen and a bit of a late bloomer.  The reason they had that conversation with me at 15 is that they caught me smoking pot.  In general though I think boys tend to get into trouble at an earlier age than girls.  

    My neighbor, who is like a little brother to me, is addicted to OCs/H which he started using when he was about 15.  But he was smoking and drinking at 11/12, and hung out with a lot of older kids - which in retrospect was probably the biggest factor.  A 16 year old is not going to think to censor themself around a 12 year old, and the 12 year old is going to want to do everything that older kid does.  And if you're already smoking/drinking at 12 you are going to get bored of that pretty soon.


    although we've already started the conversation. Hopefully it'll be ongoing.

    He's kind of a geek, socially, thankfully. Not someone who pushes the envelope, at least not as of now. He hangs with the sloooow crowd.

    I coach him and a bunch of other kids of his age and I can point out exactly which ones have already gotten drunk, high, made-out, etc.

    At least I think I can, I just look for the kids who act like I did at their age...


    My daughter and son-in-law (none / 0) (#101)
    by Amiss on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 12:12:07 AM EST
    had the same type of talk with my Grandson when he was 14.

    But I should mention (none / 0) (#103)
    by Amiss on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 12:16:55 AM EST
    that they started around 12 and also when the sex talk happened, I don't recall the age, the diseases came with it.

    Damn... (none / 0) (#12)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 02:14:45 PM EST
    a sad tale is about to get even sadder, misery piled on misery.

    You'd think the tragic death of their friend, and the guilt over not going to the ER, is punishment enough for the other boys.


    Oh no (none / 0) (#29)
    by sj on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 03:37:11 PM EST
    Oh, that's all so tragic.  

    No offense... (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 02:07:56 PM EST
    to the great Ray Davies, but to hell with David Watts...I wish I could be like Brandon Watts.  

    Prediction: he won't (none / 0) (#14)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 02:24:23 PM EST
    make it to age 30.  

    Talk about a... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 02:31:38 PM EST
    red badge of courage...kid's got stones like bowling balls.

    If he is any representation of his generation there is hope for this joint yet.


    Oh my (none / 0) (#18)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 02:48:24 PM EST
    He says he lost his virginity in the park :)

    How cool is that? (none / 0) (#20)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 02:57:07 PM EST
    Dude is my new hero.

    Quaint expression. (none / 0) (#25)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 03:14:16 PM EST
    It is (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 03:51:01 PM EST
    He's a pretty cute kid too.  Making lots of memories.  He'll be one hell of an interesting old guy :)

    Meanwhile . . . (none / 0) (#21)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 02:58:49 PM EST
    His base is speaking with their dollars:

    "Even with low approval ratings and an uncertain path to reelection, President Obama is exceeding expectations in one area: His campaign is doing far better at attracting grass-roots financial support this year than his GOP rivals or his own historic effort in 2008, according to new contribution data.

    The sheer scale of small donations, totaling $56 million for Obama and his party, has surprised many Democratic strategists and fundraisers, who feared that a sour economy would make it difficult for Obama to raise money from disenchanted and cash-strapped voters.

     President Obama's reelection campaign and DNC together raised $70 million in the third quarter of 2011. Outside of fundraising, the president is ramping up support for his reelection with his visits and talk about focusing on the economy.

    A Washington Post analysis shows that nearly half of his campaign contributions, and a quarter of the money he has raised for the Democratic Party, has come from donors giving less than $200. That's much higher than it was four years ago, and far beyond what the best-funded Republicans have managed."


    I don't think some have a very good grasp of who Obama's base is, whether that base believes Obama is listening to them and what their level of intensity is.

    The polls and the $$$ are telling a different story than I think some want to hear.

    Obama is the ONE!!! (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by shoephone on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 03:11:46 PM EST

    No, shoe - you're supposed to say, (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 03:31:36 PM EST
    "hey, that's a bandwagon I want to get on - now, where's my checkbook?"

    I feel like we've been down this road before with the statistics on the small-dollar donations turning out to be not quite what they were originally reported to be.

    I don't know about you, but I decided long ago that giving money to politicians wasn't making sense anymore, given that I wasn't getting much - if anything - in return for my investment.

    And I especially don't give money to politicians who openly and actively work against my interests.


    Haven't written a check to a politician (none / 0) (#79)
    by shoephone on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 06:48:41 PM EST
    since 2006. And by the way, where some of my 2006 recipients are concerned, I'd like my money back.

    Yes, I'm lookin' at you, Claire McCaskill and Jon Tester.


    More boring? (none / 0) (#24)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 03:14:08 PM EST
    Answer: Obama is the devil.

    [repeated over and over and over . . .]


    Link? (5.00 / 4) (#27)
    by nycstray on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 03:24:51 PM EST
    Apparently... (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by sj on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 03:39:18 PM EST
    ...you can be even more boring...

    Whodda thunk?


    Can (none / 0) (#56)
    by lentinel on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 05:14:05 PM EST
    you possibly get any more patronizing, Mr. Guy?

    I'm Jewish, therefore... (none / 0) (#76)
    by shoephone on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 06:42:11 PM EST
    I don't believe in either He[[ or Da Devil!

    But, by the same measure, (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by shoephone on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 06:44:52 PM EST
    I don't believe in Heaven either.

    It's a tough life for us realists.


    Do you really (none / 0) (#106)
    by Amiss on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 12:23:08 AM EST
    believe that $200 BS you posted? The money he  has raised has been paid for by our blood sweat and many tears from my family, at least.

    Where's Bill O'Reilly... (none / 0) (#22)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 03:02:26 PM EST
    when you need him...Grinch is workin' for the Ohio Troopers as they declare War on Christmas.

    Not to say I told you so (none / 0) (#26)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 03:23:29 PM EST
    But . . .

    "The bipartisan debt-limit deal, famously called a "Satan sandwich" by a prominent Democrat this summer, is looking more heavenly to the left.

    Republicans crowed after striking the agreement with President Obama, while congressional Democrats cried foul. . .

    With the supercommittee deadlocked, the sequestration cuts of $1.2 trillion are now likely to be triggered. Those reductions would hit national security programs, but not call for structural reforms to Medicare, Medicaid and/or Social Security.

    Republicans on the House and Senate Armed Services committees were wary of putting defense cuts in the trigger, but Democrats essentially said the GOP would have to choose between tax increases or cuts to the military. Republicans opted for the latter, despite major concerns expressed by House Armed Service Committee Chairman Buck McKeon (R-Calif.). . .

    Now, in sharp contrast to this summer, Democrats say they are in the driver's seat. They note that Republicans are already vowing to torpedo the sequestration cuts to the Defense Department, something Democrats say they will not go along with. Some frustrated GOP lawmakers told The Hill that Obama wants the supercommittee to fail, claiming that would bolster his reelection effort.

    Rep. Steve Southerland (R-Fla.) believes that his party conceded too much in the debt-limit deal with the White House.

    "I didn't vote for it ... had I thought that we didn't [give up too much], I would have voted for it," the freshman lawmaker said.

    As a result, Democrats are using the situation as leverage in their attempts to prod Republicans to raise taxes, he added. "


    Just saying.

    That'll be awful, ABG (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 04:50:38 PM EST
    I really feel for Obama - the guy just can't win for losing.

    And now you say he may not get what he wants out of the super committee?

    on July 27...

    At a press conference held by members of the House Out of Poverty Caucus Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich), the second most senior member of the U.S. House, was pointed in his criticism of the White House regarding jobs and cuts to Social Security the President put on the table last week.

    "We've got to educate the American people at the same time we educate the President of the United States.  The Republicans, Speaker Boehner or Majority Leader Cantor did not call for Social Security cuts in the budget deal. The President of the United States called for that," Conyers, who has served in the House since 1965, said. "My response to him is to mass thousands of people in front of the White House to protest this," Conyers said strongly.

    Oh well, It Is Not Obama's Fault

    But I guess there's maybe something to be said for massing thousands of people in the streets to protest after all.

    Good thing Obama has finally seen the light.

    Took him long enough though.


    The Prodigal Son (none / 0) (#34)
    by Rojas on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 04:10:49 PM EST
    A Tough Prosecutor Finds His Certitude Shaken by a Prisoner's Exoneration

    Has Dadler reported on that poker (none / 0) (#38)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 04:16:28 PM EST
    tournament yet?  

    Very timely Occ (none / 0) (#40)
    by Dadler on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 04:23:56 PM EST
    I'm in Jacksonville, start playing tomorrow.  Birthday is Sunday, so I really don't want to bust out before then.  Should be about a million dollars in the purse.  Serious dough.  And for anyone who wants to hear an amateur poker hack talk about getting lucky and winning entry into a World Poker Tour event, I'm being interviewed at about 5:35 (maybe a few minutes later) on 930 Jacksonville, the Fox (egad) Sports Radio station here.  Short notice, but here's the station website, where there's a link to listen live online. (LINK)
    I'll try to update, and hopefully there will be four days of poker news.  



    Is it the curse of death to wish you good luck? (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 04:40:11 PM EST
    As the interviewer sd., it's a big deal. (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 04:53:22 PM EST
    You are being cast as the guy from out west, never played live tournament previously, about to be eaten alive.  And you didn't really sound like Mamet.  Keep em guessing.  

    Dang, missed it! (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 05:03:59 PM EST
    Got distracted by the Victoria's Secret link on the website...

    Our guy's a talker. (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 06:09:24 PM EST
    Obviously (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by CoralGables on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 06:19:44 PM EST
    this is just wrong and should never be posted at TL. But if you want the countdown clock to the next Victoria's Secret Fashion Show you can find it (close the eyes of young children) HERE

    Took me awhile to spot the clock


    We live on the county line would (none / 0) (#107)
    by Amiss on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 12:35:04 AM EST
    love to come cheer you on, where are they holding it? My hubby loves to watch poker.

    I like Astana in the winter. (none / 0) (#85)
    by observed on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 09:19:19 PM EST
    So far the temperatures are a very mild and balmy 10-20 F on a typical day, with occasional lows below 0. Because of the cold, the snow keeps a pure white appearance over time; also, it's powdery, not wet.
    The square with the pyramid is across for me, a pure white field of snow.

    I share with many people here my choice of favorite architectural piece: the Khan Shatyr---the big tent. I learned recently that the Khan Shatyr and the Pyramid were both designed by Norman Foster. It's hard to describe the appeal  of the Khan Shatyr, but I find its form quite expressive.
    After receiving my first paycheck recently, I went shopping for clothes in the Khan Shatyr. The selection of designer stores is quite impressive. There were English, French, American and Italian stores. My favorite was Massimo Dotti, whose clothes have amazing colours.
    If I had a salary like a professional athlete, I could buy all my clothes there.

    Just watched "Mean Girls." Lindsay (none / 0) (#90)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 09:49:04 PM EST
    Lohan did a really good job.  There, I sd. it.  

    Lohan is a very talented actress, or she was. (none / 0) (#92)
    by caseyOR on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 10:01:40 PM EST
    Before she went off the rails, she was beginning to make the transition from child actor to adult actor.  Resurrecting her career at this point would be difficult. Not impossible (see: Rourke, Mickey), but hard to do.

    I imagine production companies would have trouble getting insurance for her. And, until she has clearly gotten control of her life, directors will probably choose to avoid the hassle. It's not like she's the only twenty-something actress out there.


    weird about it. I worked peripherally with Rbt. Downey Jr during several of his dark years.

    Charming and funny as all get out, even when he was so glassy-eyed he could hardly speak...


    Iowa state upsets #2 Oklahoma State (none / 0) (#94)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 11:01:09 PM EST
    in overtime...

    NOW if you asked me, Alabama returns to the presumptive #2 and a rematch with LSU for the BCS national championship game.

    What a year in college football.

    Or, Oregon, the team that, you know, (none / 0) (#96)
    by caseyOR on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 11:37:47 PM EST
    scored TDs against LSU, moves to #2 and a rematch with the Tigers.

    They would have to jump alabama (none / 0) (#100)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 12:06:37 AM EST
    if Bama loses to Auburn next weekend (please let this happen!) then... Oregon, OSU, a really wide-open selection!

    But I think it will be Bama after this weekend, unless Oregon puts on some sort of monster sized win.


    If Oregon can beat USC tomorrow (none / 0) (#102)
    by caseyOR on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 12:16:14 AM EST
    the same way they beat Stanford last week, well, then how are they not #2?

    The BCS has a definite SEC, Big 12 bias. (none / 0) (#105)
    by caseyOR on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 12:21:02 AM EST
    So, even though I believe, and this is not just boosterism, that an Oregon team that wallops USC deserves the # 2 slot, I think that a 'Bama win puts them in the 2 slot.I don't think it should, but I think it does.

    When you have two teams, each with a single loss to the same team (LSU) it's tough. If the BCS awarded style points, the Ducks would have it hands down.


    Still plenty of games left (none / 0) (#115)
    by CoralGables on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 10:54:53 AM EST
    but it's setting up to be a great year for a four team playoff between Oregon, Alabama, the winner of the Oklahoma-Oklahoma State game, and a team to be named later...for second.

    As for Oregon or Alabama in the championship: One lost their opener to LSU on a neutral field by 13, one lost to LSU on their home field by 3. That's a push. Let Houston play and be done with the issue. Of course the point spread will be LSU by 18-20 or so and might be covered by halftime.


    Was that really a neutral field? (none / 0) (#122)
    by caseyOR on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 05:54:14 PM EST
    It wasn't physically located at either school, but let's be real, Oregon fans had to fly a thousand miles to get there. LSU fans? A pleasant drive from home.

    Today, though, it's all about beating the TRojans. One game at a time. One game at a time.


    I wouldn't consider (none / 0) (#123)
    by CoralGables on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 07:41:23 PM EST
    460 miles a pleasant drive from home, but point taken.