Sunday Night Open Thread

Showtime's Homeland is getting really intense. The Good Wife has an episode on the death penalty. For lighter fare, there's Pan Am and The Next Iron Chef.

In the real world, Mexico says the helicopter crash that killed Interior Minister Francisco Blake Mora and others was likely an accident. No signs of engine failure or mechanical problems, no explosion. Here's the transcript of today's press conference (in Spanish, but you can use google translater.) That hasn't stopped suspicions from running high.

A new scandal on Congress and insider information is brewing.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Automating the consumer (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 10:19:54 AM EST
    It's alive! (video)

    Well, we've automated everything else in the world including murdering people by remote control to create more terrists to keep the WOT(TF) rolling happily along, brainwashing the gullible into thinking only preapproved acceptable thoughts, believing in manufactured utter fantasies and lies, and cowering in fear, electing hot presidential spokesmodels for the MIC, bailing out suffering bankers around the world, so now it's time apparently to turn YOU into an automated buying machine and automate vacuuming your money out of your bank account.

    Ready to ditch your wallet, cash and credit cards? A mobile payment app lets users make purchases with their smartphone without taking the device out of their pocket or purse.

    Developed by electronic payment startup Square, the app called Card Case allows customers to pay for products and services at local merchants automatically by simply providing their name to complete the transaction.

    "You walk in, say your name, and walk out. It's a seamless payment experience," said Megan Quinn, director of products for Square.

    The app automatically opens a tab when it detects that a customer is within 100 meters (328 feet) of a business, as long as they've enabled the functionality in the app and approved the business.

    The user's arrival, along with their name and photo, is announced on the merchant's app giving them the ability to charge products and services to the customer's credit card.
    "We've removed the mechanics of the transaction and brought it back to the relationship and conversation between the merchant and their customer," Quinn explained, adding customers tend to return to places where they feel comfortable.

    Over 20,000 merchants have signed up for the app across the United States in eight weeks, including coffee shops, bakers, barbers and even farmers market stalls.

    -- Reuters via RawStory

    Customers tend to return to places where they feel comfortable?

    I don't think I'll be going anywhere near anyplace that sells or uses these things. Call me a Luddite, but I'm just not buying.

    Personally I've always felt very comfortable in the woods where I played constantly during my childhood, so maybe it's time to buy a pair of hiking boots and go for a years long walk into a deep pacific northwest forest?

    Nope, me neither (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by ruffian on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 04:10:41 PM EST
    I like my tech, but that is a bridge too far.

    Does this remind you of anyone we know? (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 11:40:22 AM EST
    It's the birthday of political satirist P(atrick) J(ake) O'Rourke (books by this author), born in Toledo, Ohio, in 1947. He's the author of 16 books, including Don't Vote, It Just Encourages the Bastards (2010). He said, "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences."
    And, "No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power."

    [Writer's Almanac.]

    I like PJ... (none / 0) (#21)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 11:50:53 AM EST
    he makes good points, and doesn't take himself too seriously.

    And I'm starting to think he is right about voting...I know it is a waste of time, but I have time to waste so I vote for the hell of it knowing my candidates never win.

    The encouragement angle being considered is a strong argument against wasting that time one Tuesday a year...it is a form of tacit approval of the status quo two-party shuffle.


    Did you and CST have a beer? (none / 0) (#61)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 02:22:33 PM EST
    alas, no (none / 0) (#63)
    by CST on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 02:28:28 PM EST
    I never even made it to NY.

    My stomach thought the better of me leaving the house on Saturday, and since I can't go anywhere without it, it won that battle.

    So instead of broadway and a beer with kdog I had a meet and greet with the hospital and an IV for dehydration/food poisoning.

    Some other time.


    Too bad. Sounds like a not-fun weekend. (none / 0) (#64)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 02:30:46 PM EST
    Hope you feel better soon.  

    thanks (none / 0) (#66)
    by CST on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 02:41:18 PM EST
    not the best weekend, but it's pretty much a 48-hour ordeal, so the worst is over.

    I love that Newt is the new thing (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 12:20:35 PM EST
    if we needed any more evidence of how desperate they are.

    Check out Digby's post today re our (none / 0) (#29)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 12:30:01 PM EST
    military relying on Gingrich for tactical advice.  Scary.  

    Newt (none / 0) (#57)
    by CoralGables on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 02:03:44 PM EST
    takes the lead for the first time in a poll today. PPP gives Newt a 3 pt lead over Cain with Romney in 3rd.

    HA (none / 0) (#58)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 02:18:08 PM EST
    run Newt run.

    a funny thing happened on the way to the book signing.


    Hey, I've been thinking about you! (none / 0) (#76)
    by ruffian on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 04:11:38 PM EST
    Good to 'see' you!

    so (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 01:51:23 PM EST
    apparently god told Herman Cain, Bachman AND Perry to run for president.

    proving once again that god has a sense of humor.

    Josh's feet can be saved! (5.00 / 3) (#86)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 10:28:07 PM EST
    And can serve him well for many days to come. What a day.  It took a long time getting to the right people that live near enough to do the job, not all the way in Seattle....but the knowledge spreads and Dr. Mosca has a few followers.  One in Atlanta who has the talent and the ambition.  Not many pediatric orthos want to walk the fine cutting edge line, and Dr. Mosca has broken most of  this ground and will probably continue to.....but Josh's feet can be saved not just for the next few years, but longer.  By the time he is an adult they will probably even have developed an ankle joint replacement and that may make it possible for him to never have to have his feet amputated in his lifetime.

    We spent the day driving to and from Atlanta and with the Drs. After the incredible day where I feel so giddy I think maybe I won the lottery, some kind guy in a red Ferrari had a very discreet drag race with us through Buckhead while Josh whooped and hollered and jumped around the backseat.  Thanx to whoever he was, we owe him.  It is the small things that magically appear that make the tough road possible to stay on and travel.

    MT, this is such good news. (none / 0) (#88)
    by caseyOR on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 10:56:53 PM EST
    Is this a new treatment? Or a new and less drastic surgery? Will Josh be able to walk?

    I have pretty much no understanding of the medical methods at work here, but I know good news when I see it.  I am so happy for you and Josh and Mr. MT and the whole family.

    About that Ferrari driver- isn't it interesting how the small and unexpected kindnesses can mean so much?


    His feet are arthogrypotic (none / 0) (#92)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 15, 2011 at 08:41:59 AM EST
    They are very stiff.  A generation ago the best they had was trying to brace against the feet clubbing and many surgeries while the person was growing.  There are still surgeries but much has changed.

    For starters, when Josh was born and his bones were very soft his feet were soft casted for the first nine months.  When he was born his feet looked like little golf putters.  You can't believe what you can do to the shape of a newborn baby's foot though.  I think she had his feet facing forward and plantar in two castings.  The babies wear the casts for 13 days, and the parents peel them off.  You peel them off on the 14th day and baby gets a big bath and feet and calves get some light and air exposure and then back in casts the next day.  Some people who are born with a milder clubfoot will experience almost a full "cure" doing this now.  The bones form in the correct shapes also and make surgical outcomes much better than anything we had before.  People with really challenging clubbing, their bones used to form almost stone shaped and that made corrective surgery much less successful.

    After his first ortho got his baby bones in the correct shape she then released all his tendons and we taught him to walk.  He walked at 2 years.  He was plantar.  His feet were going to go to hell though and we knew it because Josh is not the first.  You go through this motion so that the persons feet, muscles, and brain have the memory of plantar walking.  After that it is a fight as they grow to keep the foot plantar and functioning.  Josh walks on tiptoes.  Sometimes we lose, and due to a surgery a foot will lose proper blood supply.  Sometimes when these guys get older, their feet can become very arthritic and painful too and they opt to have them amputated.

    We had a meeting though some time back with the Dr. that just wanted to skip everything and amputate Josh's feet now.  He was very dominant and insistent, his medical school pedigree was a mile long and surprisingly we haven't found very many physicians that can see things from his perspective.

    Things have improved a lot though for people dealing with arthogryposis.  It is hard because it is rare so there isn't a ton of money begging for research.  There are a few dedicated risk takers out there who I guess feed on the challenge of it and they are making many leaps and bounds forward right now.  It is very exciting in a way, and then sometimes I wonder what the hell people did 50 years ago...and well, they suffered a lot more.  A few orthos interested in this are taking new things and trying them in new ways.  That is always risky too.  People have to be willing and able to handle the stresses of it all.  There will be several more surgeries, but they are getting better outcomes and perfecting how to deal with specific issues.  They are pretty optimistic about Josh's case where his feet are concerned.  His scoliosis is becoming less controlled right now but they know so much more about scoliosis and have so many treatments simply because it has affected so many more people.


    Repubs? (none / 0) (#1)
    by markw on Sun Nov 13, 2011 at 10:54:16 PM EST
    Who are people rooting for in the Republican primaries?  I usually hope that the craziest one will win, so that the Dems will have an easier chance.  However, this time I'm actually pulling for Romney.  Not sure why that is.  I guess I hate the rest of the bunch so much that I can't stand the thought of any of them getting close to the presidency.  This might be super naive, but I'm also fantasizing that there could be some interesting policy debates if two adults were actually running against each other.  And it would be nice to see the  tea partiers take another hit.

    Who are the rest of you rooting for?

    Romney is the only one (none / 0) (#2)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Nov 13, 2011 at 11:32:20 PM EST
    who doesn't come off as a nutjob or an unqualified opportunist. I think he'll get the nomination.

    really? (none / 0) (#5)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 09:00:53 AM EST
    I find that interesting.  to me Romney comes off as the biggest opportunist on the stage.  after all he is the one who has changes every single position he has ever held to pander.
    to me, particularly in the last two debates Huntsman  seemed to me "as I saw Michael Moore say" as the doctor taking the rest of them on a field trip from the home.  I am not praising Huntsman.  its simply that in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.  I will say this if it is Romney I would bet my next paycheck there is a right wing third party candidate.
    the wingnuts will never vote for Romney.

    Actually (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 10:44:38 AM EST
    the polls don't back you up. Michele Bachmann only does 7 pts better with the tea party nuts than Romney does. Don't forget how desperate these people are to get rid of Obama.

    I realize you said (none / 0) (#6)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 09:02:17 AM EST
    "unqualified opportunist" so I suppose thats the nub

    Hey! (none / 0) (#8)
    by sj on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 09:59:57 AM EST
    Welcome back!  Where've you been?  (I was thinking about you just last week)

    hey yerself. (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 10:14:39 AM EST
    after becoming unemployed last spring I cashed out a 401K and took advantage of the ridiculous real estate market by buying, and paying cash (an absurdly almost embarrassingly small amount of cash) for a house and spent the summer working on it. I have been very busy. and I have been having the time of my life. I love doing this kind of stuff and I love the house which is more than one hundred years old according to local lore. (its called the Bamber house and the street I live on is named Bamber because it was the only one here when the street was made). and since I turned 60 last week I consider myself basically retired.
    now that its getting cold I may be around on line more as I am left to my thoughts. although there is plenty to do inside I may not do much of it until I actually retire and get my cash payout from the animators union so I can do it right. the inside is not really that bad. it had been maintained so it could be rented as the outside had been neglected for a long time.

    before and after pics (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 10:16:04 AM EST
    well not really after since there is still much to do but I got most of the stuff done I wanted to get done before winter. the house is build of oak. OAK. not just the framing but the walls and roof. so it will likely last another 100 years.


    its small, about 1200 sq ft. but its plenty for me and the dogs. I really love it. more than an acre loaded with giant trees fruit trees and flowers and a spectacular view from the back porch.


    You've been missed... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 10:58:09 AM EST
    it's been lonely in the proud degenerate department...but I'm very happy for you having better things to do.

    Wow! (none / 0) (#12)
    by Zorba on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 10:33:29 AM EST
    You did a fantastic job, Capt!

    thanks (5.00 / 0) (#28)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 12:29:57 PM EST
    it was really not in as bad a shape as it looked.  which says a lot for what agents call "curb appeal"
    it had none but it was mostly all cosmetic.  
    and I simply have to tell you tho no one asked, I  paid 15,000.00 bucks to never have another house payment.  the land is worth more than that

    Hey, Capt. good to see you. (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by caseyOR on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 03:41:36 PM EST
    The house looks great. Nice job with the roof and the porch. With the new paint job and the removal of the vines growing on the front of the house, it is revealed to be a snug and welcoming abode.

    So your 60 now, eh? Happy belated birthday. I hit 60  in a couple of months.

    And what better place to spend the winter than here at TL. Sit back and drink from the goblet of trenchant commentary. Bask in the glow of lightening wit and clever repartee. Put your two cents in on the question of where Jeff should go in his quest to find a home port for the pirate crew.


    Wow! (none / 0) (#14)
    by sj on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 10:44:20 AM EST
    Nice job.  Did you add the back porch roof?

    yes (none / 0) (#24)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 12:19:04 PM EST
    the roof I did not do alone.  didnt think I was up to that so I hired someone to do that and "helped" him.  meaning I handed him stuff.

    I'm a good "helper" ... (none / 0) (#26)
    by sj on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 12:26:07 PM EST
    ... in that very way, myself.

    New roof too--very cool (none / 0) (#18)
    by MKS on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 11:02:43 AM EST
    Love the metal roof. (none / 0) (#41)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 01:16:22 PM EST
    I always (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 01:24:34 PM EST
    wanted a metal roof.  the best sound in the world when it rains.

    I used propanel (none / 0) (#49)
    by sj on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 01:32:25 PM EST
    as a "temporary" fix for my detached garage when I bought my house 20 years ago.  Now I need to worry about my "real" roof which was replaced about 13 years ago.  The garage roof worries me not (Thank you, Dad).  And yes, it sounds good in the rain.  D@mn scary when it hails, though.  At least at first.  When you're not sure if it's gonna hold or not.

    I was told it might be to noisy (none / 0) (#51)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 01:37:44 PM EST
    but its not.  in normal rain, in most of the house, you have to be quiet and listen to hear it.  fortunately there is overhangs right outside my bedroom window so I always hear it in bed.  looking forward to the first hail.  this metal is heavier than normal roofing.  it is industrial grade that I sort of lucked into very cheap.  not at all worried about it holding.

    There is likely (none / 0) (#52)
    by sj on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 01:46:24 PM EST
    one major difference between my garage and your home:  my garage has no attic or roof crawlspace whatsoever so no buffer for sound at all.  

    Was in my garage for golfball sized (and larger) hail.  Talk about being struck by mad indecision.

    I just worried about the garage roof (and bedroom skylight for the softball sized hail)


    its the same over my back porch (none / 0) (#54)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 01:50:08 PM EST

    The pooch looks happy too! (none / 0) (#42)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 01:17:21 PM EST
    they are in heaven (none / 0) (#43)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 01:23:51 PM EST
    they have 5 times as much yard as they have ever known and they have new friends next door who I believe they think are big dogs

    Beautiful work! (none / 0) (#78)
    by ruffian on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 04:14:29 PM EST
    The dog seems to like it too.

    Really glad you have been well and happy all this time. Good to have you back.


    thanks! (none / 0) (#80)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 04:28:24 PM EST
    the dogs are in heaven

    I've never seen framing ... (none / 0) (#79)
    by Yman on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 04:19:36 PM EST
    ... roof. walls, etc. done from oak - probably last forever.

    Nice house!


    me either (none / 0) (#81)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 04:30:46 PM EST
    nor has anyone here.  the consensus seems to be that it was actually made from trees cleared from the land it is on.  lots of oak around here.  but none on in the yard.  it is solid as a rock.  incredible for being more than 100 years old.
    also a great old clawed tub in the bathroom and a great huge double drainboard ceramic sink in the kitchen.

    Huntsman (none / 0) (#85)
    by markw on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 09:52:32 PM EST
    Well, Huntsman is a non-crazy too, of course, but I don't think he has any chance at the nomination.

    History repeats (none / 0) (#3)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 07:21:46 AM EST
    Get ready for a flurry of fuzzy satellite "intelligence" of generic warehouses all across Iran frantically described as segments of a nuclear bomb assembly line (Remember a famous "secret nuclear facility" in Syria not long ago? It was a textile factory.)

    Get ready for a flurry of crude diagrams depicting suspect devices, or the containers that hide them, all capable of reaching Europe in 45 minutes.

    Get ready for a flurry of "experts" on Fox, CNN and the BBC endlessly dissecting all this extended black ops dressed up as "evidence". For instance, former UN weapons inspector David Albright, now at the Institute for Science and International Security (ISIS), has already pulled his return of the living dead stunt, displaying his "bomb Iran" credentials complete with diagrams and satellite intel.

    Forget Iraq - it's sooo 2003. Hit the new groove; hyping overdrive for the war on Iran.
    How to accomplish it? So simple - as the warmongers see it. Convince Obama that instead of being whacked around, conservatives will kiss his brogues and he'll be canonized as the re-energizer of the US economy if he just went to fight another war.

    -- Do The Bomb Iran Shuffle

    Did you see this? (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by sj on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 10:39:43 AM EST
    Occupy APEC...  Pretty cool, and a great folk song as well.  Went looking for it on iTunes, but it's not there (yet?).  That's on the up side.

    On the downside, they're clearing out Occupy Oakland.  Headlines say that there are not reports of injuries or skirmishes, while livebloggers say differently. The authorities are coming down hard on all occupations.  It's chilling.  Definitely in the "then they fight us" stage...

    Here's hoping Occupy Oakland re-gathers.


    Yeah... (none / 0) (#16)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 10:52:17 AM EST
    There has been a suggestion floated apparently there that the Occupiers move outside the barricades and surround the riot gear clad police occupying the plaza, and stay there for as long as it takes.

    The bulk of the protesters were outside the camp, milling about at 14th and Broadway, where some danced a few feet from police while others marched in a circle. A number of protesters are wearing bandanas, gas masks and goggles.

    Shon Kae, 30, of San Francisco said protesters have separated themselves into two group, one to defend the tent city, the other to protest as police move in.

    Although the camp has dwindled in recent days from about 150 tents to 60 or 70, some protesters have defied repeated orders by Oakland police to leave.

    Boots Riley, a longtime protester at the camp, said, "Whatever they do, they're going to just make us keep going. They're in a lose-lose situation. The camp is not going to go away."

    Others, like Andre Little, 38, an artist, said he would go to another city park tonight "but I'll come back."

    Luke Glassy, 19, said he would be in the camp when police arrive. "I'm going to jail tonight. With pleasure," he said.

    Paul Bloom, 64, of San Francisco also said he was prepared to be arrested.

    "It's sad that the forces that be don't know this is such a powerful movement," Bloom said. "The movement will continue and will return."

    Rodrigo Gomez, 19, and Sage Conary, 19, have barricaded their tent with a couch and chairs.

    But Ronald "Rasta" Jones had already abandoned his tent this morning. "We're going to make the job easy for them. I can't go to jail," Jones said, adding however, "If they take over the camp, we're going to reoccupy. Our objective is for them to keep spending money. We are not going to stop."

    --Police Raid Of Occupy Oakland In Progress


    Hadn't thought about that (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by sj on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 11:08:24 AM EST
    Our objective is for them to keep spending money.

    Eventually officials are going to have to justify the cost.  Or just run out of budget.

    They will exagerate the costs (none / 0) (#93)
    by Rojas on Tue Nov 15, 2011 at 12:08:35 PM EST
    To justify the brutality.

    Two 19 yr.-old guys: (none / 0) (#27)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 12:28:14 PM EST
    Our objective is for them to keep spending money.

    Doesn't seem locial to me.  If City of Oakland spends $$ on Occupy Oakland, the city's ability to help the 99% is undermined.  


    Part of the logic may be (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by nycstray on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 12:47:58 PM EST
    that Oakland police was counting on officers from other departments coming into Oakland to help them clear the protesters. Other departments have now said that they will not come in unless Oakland covers the expenses or it's an emergency, not a planned clearing of protesters. They've already been there, done that.

    Also, I do believe the police budget is sep from the budgets that aid the 99%.


    locial? ;-) (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 12:51:54 PM EST
    Well, I imagine the idea behind that is a hope that the city of Oakland continuing to spend money on a fruitless effort - effectively throwing money away - to crush free speech and right of assembly will eventually turn the wider population against the city.

    The city of Oakland's money would be better spent supporting the protesters than on goon squads to beat, mace and shoot them.


    That makes no sense (none / 0) (#33)
    by sj on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 12:54:54 PM EST
    to me.  That sounds like sophistry to me (not what I tend to expect from you).  Are you saying that the city would then divert funds allocated towards other things to the police department?  That sounds really corrupt.

    Aside from that, it is government's choice where to use public safety dollars.  


    as one who lives in Oakland (none / 0) (#34)
    by The Addams Family on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 12:57:04 PM EST
    i laughed out loud at this:

    That sounds really corrupt.

    um, yeah


    I knew/felt I was (none / 0) (#35)
    by sj on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 01:01:01 PM EST
    stating the obvious but it seemed to need stating :)

    Maybe not "divert." Just: budget. (none / 0) (#38)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 01:10:02 PM EST
    the problem (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 01:15:24 PM EST
    "This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this:  most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time.  Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy."
    -- Douglas Adams, "Prologue", Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy

    Okay, (none / 0) (#45)
    by sj on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 01:25:02 PM EST
    but that seems like unnecessary hand-wringing then.  

    In your opinion, are the 19-yr. olds (none / 0) (#46)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 01:26:39 PM EST
    quoted pursuing a worthy goal?

    If it means that (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by sj on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 01:34:38 PM EST
    the authorities give up on "throw 'em out" tactic then, yes.  I didn't read that comment to be the ultimate goal of those kids -- more that the ultimate goal was to be allowed to peaceably assemble.

    In your opinion, are the 19-yr. olds (none / 0) (#47)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 01:28:09 PM EST
    quoted pursuing a worthy goal?

    No if their goal is to bankrupt the City of (none / 0) (#53)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 01:48:29 PM EST
    Oakland.  Won't attract much support from residents of Oakland.

    Strawman (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 01:50:33 PM EST
    You know better than that.

    The guys sd. it, not me. You are being (none / 0) (#60)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 02:21:24 PM EST
    rather "preachy."  

    First of all (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 04:12:50 PM EST
    Rodrigo Gomez, 19, and Sage Conary, 19 - the two 19 year olds - said nothing.

    The ageless Ronald Jones said "If they take over the camp, we're going to reoccupy. Our objective is for them to keep spending money. We are not going to stop.", but said nothing about bankrupting anyone.


    thanks (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by sj on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 04:33:51 PM EST
    I think my read of what the 2 guys sd. (none / 0) (#65)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 02:34:52 PM EST
    is colored by my observation last week of OWS in downtown here.  Overwhelming police presence on the perimeter--all sworn officers.  $$$$$$  Maybe 3 people in the civic plaza and maybe 20-30 camped out along the side of Civic Theater on the between the sidewalk and wall of theater.  

    And what does that have (none / 0) (#67)
    by sj on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 02:46:39 PM EST
    to do with the occupiers themselves?  I'm pretty sure that wasn't a decision they made...

    Probably nothing. At least on the day (none / 0) (#71)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 02:59:26 PM EST
    I was w/i eyesight.  

    You're really confusing me (none / 0) (#72)
    by sj on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 03:07:56 PM EST
    I don't know what your point is.

    How the GOP Became the Party of the Rich (none / 0) (#4)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 07:36:15 AM EST
    (Much frothing and righteous indignation) - by Tim Dickinson, Rolling Stone

    The Supreme Court has agreed to hear (none / 0) (#7)
    by Peter G on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 09:43:53 AM EST
    essentially all the issues that are percolating on challenges to the Affordable Care Act, this Term (to be decided before July 1, 2012, in other words).  

    OWS (none / 0) (#22)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 11:58:59 AM EST
    I have been saying for a while that the movement needs to begin to focus and also to wrap itself in American values and an article in the Atlantic makes that point today

    Do people still believe that the movement will remain relevant and popular by doing what it has been doing?

    Sure (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by sj on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 12:17:44 PM EST
    OWS should take the advice of the establishment.  Because that's worked so well so far.

    Still looking for others to validate your opinions, I see.


    SJ (none / 0) (#62)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 02:26:21 PM EST
    Nope. Just making comments about things that interest me like every other person who posts something to an open thread.

    More relevant and more popular... (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 01:09:14 PM EST
    with every stomp of authoritarian jackboots on their necks, you bet ABG.

    i think OWS is now (none / 0) (#32)
    by The Addams Family on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 12:52:55 PM EST
    at a critical moment, & poised to be completely absorbed by what the Situationists have called "the Spectacle"

    The movement has had its fifteen minutes... (none / 0) (#48)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 01:31:01 PM EST
    Yep (none / 0) (#69)
    by sj on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 02:54:07 PM EST
    Now, time to settle in for the long haul.

    Hasn't it been determined our military (none / 0) (#36)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 01:05:19 PM EST
    officers are not supposed to speak publicly re U.S. policy?  

    "Why in the world would we abdicate presence and stability in the [region] to a malign Iran?" Army Maj. Gen. Karl R. Horst, chief of staff at U.S. Central Command, asked in an interview. "I'm just not sure those are good outcomes, from the U.S. perspective."


    Comforting: (none / 0) (#39)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 01:10:57 PM EST

    great story (none / 0) (#70)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 02:57:24 PM EST
    That IS so cool (none / 0) (#73)
    by sj on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 03:14:20 PM EST
    Music -- or at least song -- also bypasses some speech defects such as stuttering.

    I once worked with a guy (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 05:19:14 PM EST
    who could sing like Pavarotti, but could not speak without painfully stuttering. He could barely communicate talking, but everybody in the room would stop whatever they were doing or saying when he sang.

    I have a serious question (none / 0) (#59)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 02:21:04 PM EST
    what is with pronouncing Iraq as EYE-rack?  it drives me nuts (perhaps that is the answer to my question) and I have noticed that the same people who do this (like for example Luke Russert) do not pronounce Iran as EYE-ran.

    what the hell?  can anyone explain this to me?

    Didn't used to... (none / 0) (#68)
    by sj on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 02:52:44 PM EST
    Maybe my memory is flawed, but it seems to me that George 'nucular' Bush was the first to start calling it Eye-rac.  And, like that urban legend about the Castilian lisp, the press followed suit like the courtiers they are.

    But I could be wrong.


    American proving that they celebrate (none / 0) (#83)
    by MO Blue on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 04:50:20 PM EST
    their right to be totally ignorant. BTW, many people do pronounce Iran as EYE-ran.

    Where in the hell have you been :)? (none / 0) (#87)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 10:29:30 PM EST
    nice to see ya (none / 0) (#89)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Nov 15, 2011 at 06:32:16 AM EST
    I assume you read upthread and answered your question.  I been happily homesteading.

    I didn't read last night :) (none / 0) (#90)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 15, 2011 at 08:15:58 AM EST
    I was very pooped and very happy too.  When I posted the comment about Josh's feet I saw a comment by Captain Howdy.  Still feel like I won the lottery today.

    Also, missed the lifting of DADT (none / 0) (#91)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 15, 2011 at 08:18:47 AM EST
    celebration with you.  Comments sir?

    its the major crack in the foundation (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Nov 15, 2011 at 12:19:41 PM EST
    all other rights will follow from it.  now that gays can marry there will be soldiers fighting side by side whos spouses do not get the same benefits.

    wont fly.  no one can argue it with a straight face.
    bigotry wont end but it will have to go underground as it has with blacks. and I gleefully related these facts to a bunch of rednecks just a couple of days ago.

    its more than a watershed its the end of an era.
    and I am so happy that I lived to see it.

    now all we have to do is put a stake thru the heart of DOMA.  this will hasten that.