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Media Frenzy Over Paterno and Sandusky

I don't follow college sports. I never heard of Joe Paterno or Jerry Sandusky before last night, and I didn't click through the myriad of headlines to see who they are until this morning. Now, having read the grand jury report and several articles and opinion pieces, here's what I see.

An 84 year old coach with an unblemished record, who devoted his life to coaching a football team, has been abruptly fired because in 2002, a graduate student told him about witnessing what he perceived to be a former assistant coach's sexual assault on a young boy in a school shower. The assistant coach, Jerry Sandusky, retired in 1999, but retained many school privileges as part of his severance package.

Paterno timely reported the allegation to his superiors. They handled the allegation internally and didn't take it to the police. Sandusky was told he could no longer bring minors on campus. The graduate student, Mike McQueary, also told his father about what he observed, but not the police. Nor did he intervene to stop the perceived assault. He's now a coach for the team. [More..]

No criminal charges were brought against Sandusky during the 9 years following the graduate student's disclosure. In 2008, he notified Second Mile, a social program he established in 1977 for disadvantaged youth, that he was being investigated for child sexual assault allegations. He has not had contact with children there since.

By all accounts, Paterno fulfilled his legal obligation by reporting the incident (which he did not personally witness and was not corroborated by anyone else) to his superiors.

A damning grand jury report has been released to the public by the state of Pennsylania accusing Sandusky of being a serial child molester/rapist. It also accuses two school officials, athletic director, Tim Curley and a vice president, Gary Schultz, of lying to the grand jury. The grand jury report makes no criminal accusations against Paterno, who has not been charged with a crime.

Many alleged victims testified before the grand jury. Jerry Sandusky is now accused of sexually assaulting disadvantaged youths who participated in "Second Mile." The alleged assaults occurred over a 15 year period. So far, there are two Penn State employees who reported witnessing Sandusky committing a sexual offense. One is a janitor who due to dementia, is not competent to testify, and the other is McQueary. McQueary has not been fired. He's expected to be on the field at this Saturday's game.

The media and public are now crucifying Joe Paterno because he violated a "moral obligation", not a legal obligation. His only defenders appear to be current students at the school, former Congressman Joe Sestak, a former player named Franco Harris, and a reporter named Chuck Strouse at Village Voice Media who writes, After Joe Paterno: Enough Already With Child Sexual Abuse Hysteria.

Pennsylvania's senators have just suspended their support for Paterno's nomination for a Medal of Freedom Award.

Grand jury indictments are allegations, not proof. They are one-sided accounts. Paterno is not accused of a crime. Sandusky denies the accusations. The proper place for them to be resolved is in a courtroom.

As to whether Paterno should have been fired, I have no opinion and I doubt I'll keep writing about this story, unless future legal developments in the case interest me.

For those of you who are interested in the story, here's a place to rationally discuss it. Proclamations that any of those accused are guilty, and personal attacks and name-calling are not welcome here. Please take those comments to another site.

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  • Sad to say (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by jbindc on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:10:59 PM EST
    JoePa brought this on himself.  With the information he had, he fulfilled his legal obligations.  Even take out the moral argument (whichI happen to agree with - myheart breaks, but JoePa should have done more - even  he said so last night). But wouldn't any normal person in that position, with that clout, at least get the university to open an investigation so any alleged criminal or improper activity wouldn't get the university into the scandal it's fighting now?

    Tragic all the way around.

    (1) In 1998 Sandusky was investigated (none / 0) (#12)
    by ding7777 on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:48:29 PM EST
    by Child Welfare and no charges were brought against him (link)

    (2) In 2002 Paterno says that what McQuery told him he witnessed was not as explicit as what McQueary told the Grand jury; still Paterno did report the account to University officials

    Yes, in 2002 Paterno had enough influence to do more but what?  Embroil the school in a scandal, knowing that just 4 years before the  State took no action against Sandusky for similar allegations?

    Parent

    Because (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by jbindc on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:12:01 PM EST
    One of his trusted former players and grad assts. came forward with new and independent allegations?

    While it may not necessarily be used in court, most rational people would tend to think that a pattern may have been developing with regards to Mr. Sandusky.

    Parent

    Wikipedia has a timeline (none / 0) (#76)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 12:42:42 AM EST
    of the Sandusky allegations, and there's a lot, lot more than just these two things.  Whether Paterno was aware of them or not, I don't know, but plenty of people did know that this guy had been repeatedly accused of molesting children.

    In the 1998 incident that apparently led to his resignation from Penn, the local DA decided for unknown reasons not to bring a case against him.  The guy later moved to Pennsylvania, where, weirdly, he disappeared under still totally mysterious circumstances.  No evidence it's related in any way, but it's a creepy coincidence.

    Parent

    Wouldn't the local DA have already been in PA? (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by BobTinKY on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 08:58:34 AM EST
    He was a long term resident of PA (none / 0) (#118)
    by Makarov on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 11:40:43 AM EST
    Ray Gricar was District Attorney for Centre County for 20 years, since 1985.

    In 2005, he left Bellefonte (the county seat, and his home, about 10 miles from State College) and apparently drove east to Lewisburg, along the Susquehanna River. He was never seen again, and his body was never found despite extensive search.

    Someone removed the hard drive from his laptop computer, and both were found separately on different dates in and along the river near where his car was found. No data was recovered from the water damaged hard drive.

    Some time before his disappearance, Gricar is said to have sought information about how to wipe information from a computer hard drive, which offers a potential explanation for why his laptop was found in the manner it was.

    Nine years earlier, Gricar's brother is said to have committed suicide by drowning in a river in Ohio. After extensive police investigation, Gricar was declared officially dead by a Centre County judge in July 2011.

    Having met Ray a couple times, and once having lived in Centre County for over 10 years, I followed the case pretty closely. I think suicide is the most rational explanation for his disappearance.

    It's unfortunate that he isn't around to shed light on his decision not to bring any charge against Sandusky in 1998. I have no reason to suspect, though, that the case is related to his disappearance.

    Parent

    Don't think I'd advise submitting Wikipedia (none / 0) (#95)
    by BobTinKY on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 08:13:20 AM EST
    entries to a court.

    I love Wikipedia but recognize it for what it is.

    Parent

    the story about the da who disappeared (none / 0) (#102)
    by DFLer on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 08:56:38 AM EST
    was on the national news last night.

    Parent
    He was NOT investigated by child welfare in '98 (none / 0) (#128)
    by cal1942 on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 01:17:05 PM EST
    State authorities were NOT involved in the 1998 incident.  He was investigated by campus police.  The county DA, in spite of a recording of Sandusky admitting improper contact, ordered the investigation stopped.

    Embroil the school in a scandal, knowing that just 4 years before the  State took no action against Sandusky for similar allegations?

    You have just exposed the perfidious nature of Paterno's conduct.  Avoiding scandal via coverup.

    Sandusky didn't come to the attention of state welfare authority until late 2008 when a mother reported impropriety to a high school.  The high school reported to state welfare authorities.

    Parent

    IMO, this is about the corruptness of NCAA (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:33:36 PM EST
    and how the strength of school sports programs trump everything else. Those in leadership failed to do everything possible to protect kids, and that included going to the police. This was allowed to continue for years. Every single person involved in this situation should be fired. This is not an unfounded "frenzy."  

    Agree with second half of your first (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:53:33 PM EST
    sentence.  Hard to see how NCAA is to be blamed for these local allegations.  

    Parent
    money, money, money (none / 0) (#9)
    by jondee on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:35:53 PM EST
    and all the misguided, folkloric, b.s that swirls around sports heros.

    Parent
    There are more reasons than committing (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:52:56 PM EST
    a crime for Paterno being fired from his position.  

    Joe Paterno is a man who, for years, has held himself out as a role model of integrity and good moral fiber, building a football program that didn't shirk the academics in pursuit of excellence in athletics.  

    But the true test of Joe Paterno's position on the moral high ground was what he did - and didn't do - when confronted with something that should have been bigger than football, and should have prompted him to hold himself to the same high standards he demanded of his players.  But when confronted with the eyewitness information about what took place in the showers in the Penn State football team's locker room, all he did - and it was truly the least of what he should have done, even if it was all he was legally required to do - was report it to his athletic director.  

    Period.

    Paterno failed to meet the high standards he set for others, failed those children who were already victimized, and enabled, through his inaction, other children to be in harm's way.

    No question that Paterno built a terrific football program.  No question he was loved and admired for it.  

    But when he failed those children, he lost the right, in my opinion, to be in control of his own destiny.  He lost the right to revel in the glory of this season's last home game.

    Joe Paterno failed, even if he didn't commit a crime, and the university had every right - and maybe even an obligation - to fire him.

    This isn't the end of this, by any means.  I have no doubt that what we know so far isn't even the worst of it, and I'm also sure that in the coming weeks and months, all those people raging about the unfair treatment of Joe Paterno are going to be feeling decidedly sick to their stomachs for doing so.

    I hope I'm wrong.

    On point as usual. (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by coast on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:05:32 PM EST
    I agree this isn't the end.  There are far too many unanswered questions.  The elephant in the room for me is the timing of the first investigation into Sandusky's behavior in 1998 and his retirement a year later.  He was only 55 and was the apparent successor to JP.  Someone knows more than what they had admitted so far.

    Parent
    Also not the first time (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 12:49:18 AM EST
    There have been numerous incidents with Sandusky over the years, and at the very least, one of them in 1998, was known to Paterno, and Sandusky resigned shortly after it (having apparently been caught on tape basically abasing himself to the victim's mother, who brought the complaint, and saying how ashamed he was).

    Parent
    This type of comment (none / 0) (#122)
    by Makarov on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 12:07:19 PM EST
    is rather indicative of the past week's rush to judgement.

    There is no actual information suggesting Paterno knew of the 1998 police investigation into Sandusky. It is merely supposition.

    The one person involved in the case so far who definitely did know was VP of Finance and Business Gary Schultz. Schultz oversaw campus police services as part of his duties at Penn State. Schultz and Penn State Athletics Director also met with the witness to the 2002 incident, Mike McQueary.

    Joe Paterno's testimony backed up McQueary that Schultz and Curley were informed the 2002 incident was of a sexual nature. If Paterno was involved in a cover-up, one would expect his testimony to support other university officials. This certainly isn't definitive, but neither is the conclusion stated by some in the media that Paterno covered up for Sandusky.

    I believe if there is a thorough investigation, more people who knew about the 1998 incident will become known. This could include other Penn State officials and people at the Second Mile charity.

    It's important to note that the general counsel for Penn State at the time for both incidents was also pro-bono counsel for the Second Mile. If he knew of either 1998 or 2002 reports, it's hard for me to understand how he could have represented both adequately given the obvious conflict of interest.

    Parent

    So, you think it's conceivable that (5.00 / 3) (#126)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 12:44:59 PM EST
    Sandusky, arguably the mastermind of the successful Lions defense, "retired" in 1999 at prime coaching age - 55 - never to return to coaching, even though it was thought that he would be Paterno's choice to succeed him, and Joe Paterno didn't know anything about the 1998 allegations of molestation?

    I think that's a stretch that's going to be harder and harder to make as this thing plays out.

    Parent

    I think (none / 0) (#143)
    by Makarov on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 04:02:29 PM EST
    it's perfectly possible.

    The story around Sandusky's retirement was Joe called him in one day in '99 and told him he (Joe) wasn't going to retire any time soon, so Sandusky wouldn't likely be PSU's head coach.

    This was widely reported at the time, and plenty of people retire at age 55 for a variety of reasons. Are we to suspect Urban Meyer is a child rapist because he left his job as head coach of Florida?

    You can read anything into events that you want. It doesn't make them true, or even likely.

    Parent

    Hindsight is 20/20 but in 2002... (none / 0) (#20)
    by ding7777 on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:10:31 PM EST
    McQueary did not stop the alleged "bigger than football" act in progress nor did McQueary report "the bigger than football" act to the police

    Parent
    a child being raped (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by jondee on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:14:11 PM EST
    and brutalized is "allegedly" bigger than football?

    Parent
    Are you (none / 0) (#27)
    by ding7777 on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:30:22 PM EST

    basing your comments on the Grand Jury report or what McQueary told Paterno at the time.

    Why didn't McQueary stop the act while it was in progress? Or go to the police?

    Parent

    That McQueary (none / 0) (#115)
    by sj on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 11:22:48 AM EST
    probably handled the situation inappropriately means ... what?

    Didn't happen?  Wasn't that serious?  What are you trying to imply? Or diminish?

    One thing I've learned, as the parent of a young man:  A 28 year old man is not necessarily mature in all aspects of life.  I can see why he went to his father.  I can see why an immature young man might not stop the act in progess... sort of.

    I can't see why you think his actions are any sort of defining factor.

    Parent

    If Paterno is guilty of anything (none / 0) (#96)
    by BobTinKY on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 08:19:38 AM EST
    I will still not be sick to my stomach for having opposed his trial in the press and the way uninformed folks leap to conclusions based on press reports of one sided, unavailable GJ testimony.  Happens all the time & it is wrong.  The fact is we don't know what his assitant saw and said he saw or told Paterno what he saw.  Maybe he knew every incident, saw it with his own eyes, point is we don't know and to think we're informed by press reports is ridiculous.

    Parent
    Read the Grand Jury indictment (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by jbindc on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 08:41:12 AM EST
    It's pretty graphic and detailed ss to what McQueary testified to.

    Unless, of course, you think it's all made up.

    Parent

    I don't know if it is all made up (none / 0) (#101)
    by BobTinKY on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 08:56:37 AM EST
    & I don't want to read it and hope I never have to serve on a jury that has to deal with such sordid matters.  I would respect the findings of the jury that does have to deal with it and await their verdict.

    I guess I wonder how someone could see what it has been reported he saw and testified to and did not act to stop it right then & there.  I find that, if it is the case, rather incredible.

    Parent

    I couldn't read it all the way through (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by jbindc on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 09:04:58 AM EST
    It's pretty horrible.

    But it isn't just one sided media speculation out there.

    And now, Texas authorities are looking into allegations of abuse by Sandusky when he took one if the alleged victims to the Alamo Bowl in San Antonio and allegedly threatened to send the boy home if he didn't, um, engage.

    Parent

    I wonder why, if you wonder (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 04:33:45 PM EST
    about so much, you won't read the documentation to contribute comments based on what is known, not just what you wonder.

    Parent
    The PSU situation (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by christinep on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:08:39 PM EST
    is about much more than a legal case(s).  It goes directly to the values of society and to the values of admired institutions insofar as the exploding story beginning with the grand jury report alleges.  The fact that individuals named criminally or otherwise happen to be highly regarded nationally for growing/nurturing the flagship university of Pennsylvania makes the story compelling, sad, perplexing, disgusting, and--in so many ways--tragic. Time will fill in the details, legally & societally.

    Remember the allegations about particular US Boy Scout groups some years back; remember again the almost-decade-long developing facts of pedophilia in named parishes of the Catholic Church, etc. The claimed "hear no evil, see no evil" approach there has a reverberation in practice here.  Strong institutions with strong male elder or father figures...a worrisome tendency to protect the institution & the elders before the young boys?  Granted we don't know all the facts...it will be awhile...but, unless we cover our eyes & close our ears, we do know that something was greatly amiss. (See shoephone's insightful statement above.)

    Where am I on this particular matter? From an ethical sense, from a perspective of what we expect in our educational institution leaders...from that standpoint, I am very sad & very angry.  As a person with close ties via birth, early childhood, & relatives to Pennsylvania (particularly the area not too far from State College) and as one who has been a great fan of Penn State & Paterno, I am sad & angry. (And, as a Roman Catholic all my life, this sure looks to me to say something about a tear in the fabric of institutions that gets harder & harder to regard lightly.)

    I strongly believe in the concept of (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Buckeye on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:27:56 PM EST
    innocent until proven guilty whether in a legal sense or in the court of public opinion.  I do not know if this is a hoax (I doubt it) and everyone has been falsely accused.  I will wait before determining whether or not Sandusky is a monster, Curly and Schultz are guilty of the responsibility-to-report statute and lied to grand jury, and Joe Paterno covered up for a molestor.

    However, there is easily...EASILY...grounds to fire them and you can support their termination without violating the above principle.  They were all told that a 28 year old person that they have known their entire life caught a man in the act of molesting a child.  To make it worse, it was someone that had already been accused once (1999).  When you hear this, you call the police.  Period.  That way, if it is true, you get him off the streets and away from children so he cannot hurt them anymore.  If it is not true, the police and/or the accused's lawyer can sort it out.

    If it turns out Sandusky is guilty, then these people failed to keep a monster from hurting kids.  Definately worthly of termination to say the least.  If it turns out Sandusky is innocent and this was a big hoax, then they still failed and should be fired because did not know if Sandusky was innocent or not and failed to call the police putting people at risk.

    You hit on the key point for me (5.00 / 0) (#46)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 06:26:22 PM EST
    Were it not for the trusted eyewitness that saw something he was pretty sure was wrong, the story would be about unsubstantiated allegations and my opinion would be different. However, McQuarry's story at the time, no matter how much detail he told Paterno, should have been enough for all of them to get the law involved and not handle it internally. Not doing so is simply inexcusable.

    Furthermore they had years to attempt to rectify the situation and did not, covering it up instead.

    'unblemished record' just means unblemished public record. This is a pretty big blemish and we don't know what else we don't know. I'm not sorry JoePa isn't going to get the retirement party he dreamed of. Should have done the right thing, or quit while he was ahead.

    Parent

    Yep, Joe Paterno does not deserve a (none / 0) (#85)
    by Buckeye on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 04:49:25 AM EST
    story book ending.  I am also now questioning that "unblemished" record.  If it turns our Sandusky is guilty of what they say he is, then this has been going on for at least 17 years (1st allegation is '94) and they knew about it for at least 13 years (since '98).  There was also a lot of fighting and violence from players during that difficult 5 year run (1999 to 2004) that got swept under the rug and Paterno took no responsibility for.  I am starting to wonder if Paterno's record outside of Sandusky is as advertised?

    Parent
    Weird (none / 0) (#94)
    by BobTinKY on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 08:12:03 AM EST
    Conclude in the present tense Paterno does not deserve a story book ending then go on to say "if . . ."

    What he, what everyone deserves, is a fair hearing.

    Buckeye, hmmmmm;  Where have I heard that term before?

    I am not even a fan of college football but what is at stake here for Paterno & all involved is a lot more important than tribal loyalties.

    Parent

    Read my initial post on this Bob. (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Buckeye on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 03:51:19 PM EST
    Paterno deserves to be fired and not have a story book ending (walking away scorned) even IF Sandusky is completely innocent based on what Paterno has publically stated his position to be.

    If you are told someone witnessed a child being assaulted and your final statement on the matter is "I should have done more" and you state publically and testify in a grand jury that you did not go to the police (nor ensure others went to police), you deserve termination and scorn (even if Sandusky is innocent and this is all a hoax).  If it turns out Sandusky is guilty, it makes his negligence even worse.

    Parent

    But you won't read the evidence (none / 0) (#146)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 04:35:30 PM EST
    of his sworn testimony at the fair hearing already held.

    Parent
    Every time a person is told that another (none / 0) (#100)
    by BobTinKY on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 08:53:09 AM EST
    has engaged in, whatever, the informed party should call the police lest he/she put possible future victims of this, whatever, at risk?  No matter the lack of corroboration, no matter the level of details reported etc.  Failure to do so, even if it turns out the report was a big hoax, is itself criminal or at least conduct subject to sanction.

    Did you use to work in the Bush Administration?

    Has Paterno stated for the record what it was he was told and whatever else he may have known?  I'd like to know that before I opine on his actions or lack thereof.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#141)
    by Buckeye on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 03:55:55 PM EST
    Has Paterno stated for the record what it was he was told and whatever else he may have known?  I'd like to know that before I opine on his actions or lack thereof.

    The grand jury report can be found on the internet.  Read it (but warning, do it on an empty stomach).

    No matter the lack of corroboration, no matter the level of details reported etc.  

    In every case, no.  But when a 28 year old graduate student that you and Sandusky have known all his life says he saw him in the act of sodomizing a 10 year old boy in the showers of the locker room where your team plays, and it is the same person that has already had sexual abuse accusations made against him, that requires action.  

    Parent

    Yes, he has. But you stated (none / 0) (#147)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 04:36:11 PM EST
    that you didn't want to read it.  If you really want to know now, read it.

    Parent
    I wonder if there is much more (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by observed on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:30:13 PM EST
    of this sort of thing than we hear about. The reason I say that is that, IIRC, there has been a LOT  of sexual abuse of boys in Canadian hockey youth leagues by coaches.

    Very admirable to read that you (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by observed on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:32:36 PM EST
    had never heard of Paterno previously.
    So many brain cells saved.

    That's how I feel re Kim Kardahsian (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:34:14 PM EST
    but I buckled recently.  

    Parent
    I stayed strong on that front for (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by observed on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:44:08 PM EST
     a while, but I succumbed at least a year ago.
    Talk about having a career about nothing.


    Parent
    What time is it in KZ? (none / 0) (#34)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:51:10 PM EST
    5 am now. (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by observed on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 05:20:58 PM EST
    I've been having trouble sleeping, so if I wake up for a few minutes, I get on the computer.
    I just started working out last Saturday, and am doing better. Tonight was the first time I didn't wake up by 2 am.
    Haven't lived in a big city for many years. The air quality has been getting to me, and my apartment gave the definition of off-gassing when I moved in ---brand new. That's gotten much better. I think after 2 weeks I will be sleeping well, as long as I exercise vigorously.
    Anyway, I"m at my heavieest ever right now. Food here is quite heavy, and I've been less active than normal.

    I bought some cold-smoked semga after the workout.
    It's redder than salmon, and oilier. I wonder if it's eaten in the US.


    Parent

    please take this to an open thread (none / 0) (#54)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 09:10:17 PM EST
    and keep this on Paterno related matters. Thanks

    Parent
    At the airport (5.00 / 4) (#33)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:49:02 PM EST
    but wanted to make clear that I heard of Joe Paterno before yesterday.

    Lame. (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:51:44 PM EST
    Wonder if J knows who is coaching (none / 0) (#36)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:57:13 PM EST
    U of M?  

    Parent
    no idea and (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 05:03:02 PM EST
    I never went to a football game while I was in college there. I went to demonstrations against the war in Vietnam, demonstrations supporting John Sinclair and rock concerts.

    Parent
    Wow. 9 1/2-10 yrs. for 2 MJ cigs. (none / 0) (#45)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 06:17:42 PM EST
    Federal?

    P.S.  After my freshman yr. I sold my football tickets.  Great time to find an empty practice room.  

    Parent

    I did both (none / 0) (#80)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 12:58:08 AM EST
    went to demos and the football games.  Haven't been to a single one in the following, gulp, 40 years, though.

    Parent
    I would hope so (none / 0) (#37)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:58:15 PM EST
    since you write about sports. Can't wait till you return next week!

    Parent
    As a commenter noted above (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Lacy on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 05:14:04 PM EST
    there was a school and police investigation of Sandusky in 1998 on similar charges that was dropped for reasons no one has been able to explain. This was followed by Paterno telling Sandusky he would not ever be head coach of Penn State, and Sandusky's quick retirement. (So anyone thinking that Paterno did not know Sandusky had a "history", just doesn't understand the head coach's role in college football.)

    An item of note is that Paterno had an incredible won-loss record at Penn State with only a very few losing seasons....BUT, 2 of those seasons were 2000 and 2001, immediately preceding the 2002 locker room incident. So, if you get the picture, 2002 was a year of critical vulnerability for PATERNO. Not evidence, of course, just the kind of item that prosecutors seize on all the time to pound into juries.

    Another item of note is that the grand jury report suggests that McQueary told Paterno in graphic detail that he saw anal intercourse performed on a child, but that the 2 school officials said that Paterno reported to them only horseplay or such.  So objective minds might consider remaining open as to who exactly wanted and sought a cover-up, and it may well NOT have been the 2 indicted.

    My error above, (none / 0) (#42)
    by Lacy on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 05:38:05 PM EST
    I just reviewed the actual grand jury report itself, which states that the 2 indicted DID speak with McQueary, though I had read elsewhere they had spoken only with Paterno.

    Parent
    It is incredibly telling of our society (5.00 / 0) (#56)
    by Towanda on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 09:16:05 PM EST
    and perhaps of this diary and discussion that there has been no media frenzy nor discussion here of the firing of the Penn State president, too.

    That is symptomatic of the sickness of a sports-crazed society, as is so much else about this story, about the behavior of journalists at the press conference, about the behavior of students rioting at Penn State because of Paterno, not because of their president being dumped by the Board of Trustees.

    By the way, that board has a lot to answer for, as well.  That it was caught so flatfooted this week in how to handle a response is ridiculous, as it had to know that many staffers had been subpoenaed and were testifying for months now.  Still hoping to cover it all up, I suppose?

    Also stunning about the board's stasis and the sickness endemic at Penn State is that Paterno  publicly announced that he would decide what to do and not answer to them.  Of course, that had worked fine for him years ago, when the board tried and failed to force him to retire.  I simply cannot imagine a board without the power of firing, but then, this was a football coach.  And that, it seems, says it all in this society.

    Okay, I'm going to say one thing more perhaps more relevant to this blog:  Another who ought to be fired is the university lawyer, who also was aware of so many of these events -- per the grand jury document -- and yet did not report them to the local police but thus, in essence, participated in the coverup.  I think that is a worse transgression than what a grad student (at the time) did or not do.

    It should be noted (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by CoralGables on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 09:36:54 PM EST
    that the lawyer for the University is also the lawyer for The Second Mile.

    Parent
    An interesting and very icky fact (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 09:53:12 PM EST
    Incestuous (none / 0) (#67)
    by Towanda on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 10:31:23 PM EST
    as well as [edophiliac.  Such a "Happy Valley."

    Parent
    If you think that the president (none / 0) (#68)
    by Towanda on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 10:36:02 PM EST
    went to St. Joe on his own . . . well.

    The board was split.  Some lost, some won.

    But -- again -- it's the very fact that the board split on this, that a board spent so much time on this, is telling . . . in comparison to apparently so little time spent on investigating why so many staffers were subpoenaed and being investigated.

    In the interim, how many more boys have been molested?  Oh, wait, there's a new therapist in town looking for work!  That's the Penn State president's field:  family therapy.  Founder of a leading journal in the field. You could not make this up.  

    But, I digress.

    Back to football and other stuff that really matters.

    Parent

    sad to think that there are people (5.00 / 0) (#106)
    by pitachips on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 09:54:10 AM EST
    who think that upon seeing the rape of a child that so long as you mention it to your immediate workplace supervisor, that whatever obligation you have to the victim and society, just ends.  

    Great summary Jeralyn, and BS (1.00 / 3) (#69)
    by Green26 on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 11:23:50 PM EST
    to most of the rest of you. I have been following the story closely because I am interested in it.

    The alleged molestation is horrible, but come on, for all but the accused, there is no valid reason to charge, fire and crucify all of the others.

    What was seen, which may or may not have been what actually occurred, was reported upward in the university structure. From the graduate asst, to Paterno, to the AD, at some point apparently to the vp who oversaw the campus police, and perhaps to others. The statute requiring educators to report this type of problem/crime is vague and seems not apply to this type of situation, from what I've read. This was not a university incident and did not involve a university student; it just apparently occurred at the university/football facilities and was observed by a grad asst and a janitor who now has dementia.

    Sure, earlier reporting may have prevented more molestation. However, I don't believe this crime or situation requires the severe punishment of Penn St, the respected president of Penn St (who is respected and credited with advancing the stature of Penn St), the revered long-time coach of Penn St football, the athletic director, and perhaps others.

    Judged in retrospect, someone should have turned in Sandusky, the coach/former coach. However, it was reported, at least generally to multiple people and important people, and they decided, for whatever reason, to take action other than turning this over to legal authorities. Sandusky was obviously their friend, and respected for his football and other qualities.

    The punishment is much too severe for the crime. Had this not been Penn St and Paterno, this would not have merited nearly this much attention.

    And as Jeralyn and others know, the true facts are often not what the indictment/prosecution says, and what is reported in the media initially.

    The Penn St board must be composed of a bunch of people without strength and conviction.

    Paterno has coached at Penn St for 61 years. His teams have been near the top in many years, and have won 2 national championships. Paterno played quarterback for Brown, in the old days. Franco Harris is one of the greatest running backs of all time, in college and the NFL. Probably graduated about 1972 and then was an all-pro player for the Pitt Stealers.

    In my view, what is occurring now (and I'm not talking about the molestation) is one of the things that is wrong with America. Over-criminalization and firing everyone is sight, is not what this country should be about.

    I hope Jeralyn continues to write on this subject.

    And I'm sure this would be your reaction (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 07:00:45 AM EST
    and approach if one of your children was involved, right?

    So...it's horrible, but not so horrible that someone should lose his job over it?  It's horrible, but not so horrible that anyone needs to consider how many children may have been victimized after the minimum legal obligations had been fulfilled?

    Makes me wonder what you would consider sufficient reason to fire someone.

    "In retrospect, someone should have turned in Sandusky."  Because...there weren't enough indications that Sandusky was a predator, and he had positioned himself, through his foundation, to have an endless supply of young boys to prey on?  Because, even with all the signs, the allegations and investigations, the friendship with Sandusky trumped the safety of defenseless children?

    I have news for you: people who prey on children are always "nice guys;" I mean, the ability to have access to children is jeopardized if one isn't liked and trusted by the adults in the community, and if one isn't liked and trusted by the kids, well, then what?

    Sandusky's already admitted to one child's mother that he molested her son, so people knew.  What is that quote? "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

    Well, technically, Paterno and Spanier and Curly didn't do "nothing," but tell that to the kids, tell that to their families.

    Would it have been enough for you if it were one of your kids?

    Parent

    McQueary is sidelined (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Zorba on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 07:38:00 AM EST
    He won't be coaching at Saturday's game because he has received "multiple threats."  Link.  He must be telling himself "See?  See?  This is why I went to my dad and to Paterno and not the cops."  There's no indication as yet who sent the threats, or why.  Could be fans P.O.ed that Paterno got fired.  Could be people who feel strongly that child sexual abuse should be immediately reported.  A bunch of lunatics, either way.  What is it with people who immediately send threats?  I don't excuse McQueary at all for not calling the police (far from it), but this type of throwing threats around every time somebody does something you don't like has got to stop.  This isn't the Old West.

    Parent
    Ok fire Paterno (none / 0) (#99)
    by BobTinKY on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 08:42:38 AM EST
    but the eyewitness, the man in position to stop what he saw going on and didn't, stays? Huh?  That makes little sense to me.

    If I were the parent I'd be pretty upset at a man who saw the abuse in progress & did not act to stop it.  If , if that was what happened, we don't know yet.

    I would have suspended Paterno & all involved pending an investigation, not fired him.  He had announced his resignation in any event.

    Parent

    And (none / 0) (#142)
    by CoralGables on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 03:56:34 PM EST
    he should be covered by it. I'm appalled by the suspected actions of Sandusky and also by the possible Penn State coverup at the higher levels. However, I'm not getting on the fire the witness bandwagon.

    Parent
    "The punishment is much too severe (none / 0) (#93)
    by me only on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 08:11:10 AM EST
    for the crime."

    You mean not coaching the last home game is "much too severe."  Paterno had already resigned.  The university just moved the date.  Paterno knew he couldn't continue as the head coach.

    Parent

    Paterno's "resignation" was an affront (none / 0) (#148)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 04:40:45 PM EST
    and direct challenge to the Board of Trustees and thus to the citizens whom they are to represent in running the university.  No wonder that the governor got involved.

    Did you read it?

    Parent

    BS back atcha, Green26 (none / 0) (#116)
    by christinep on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 11:28:54 AM EST
    I love football. My dad played semi-pro as a very young man growing up in the Depression in Pennsylvania, and since I was the oldest offspring (a daughter, tho) he taught me how to punt, even throw a spiral, run in family/neighborhood fun football. We watched football together & groused about it with my sister and other family members...one of the best games we went to together was to see Penn State play Colorado @Boulder (PSU lost.) Yep.

    Bug, I think your penultimate paragraph about Paterno & Harris says a lot...about what may be driving your perspective. Football, indeed, is enjoyable to watch, challenging to participate in...and we come to respect those who have mastered its demands.  

    But #2, A University--the State's center of learning like PSU--is more than being about the minimum. Your comments appear to address the minimum standards that individuals are expected to meet. It is that view that misses the point. To lead is to do more than get by...whether in football or as a college official(s) charged with educating & shepherding young people.  The narrow view that we are to avert our eyes does not comport with who we say we are or would want to be...or want our children to be. What has been going through my mind about this whole situation: To whom much is given, much is expected. Spanier, Paterno & the rest--based upon what we do know (e.g., the acknowledgement of hearing from McQueary and passing the info up the line and the reported earlier investigations that would add credence to said statement)--did zilch.  At the very least, they could not meet the minimum leadership requirement for continuing in their positions.  One doesn't have to be found guilty of breaking a law to be fired from a position that requires high personal, professional standards...does one!  (I used an exclamation point because, for most people, the "question" would be rhetorical.)

    Parent

    This is one of (none / 0) (#2)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:19:44 PM EST
    the biggest sports scandals in US history.  I don't think that is overselling it.  Huge.

    Rumors have it that Sandusky was actually pimping kids for charitable donations in addition to his own disgusting attacks.  If that turns out to be true, it will have ramification both in and outside of sports for years to come.

    sordid beyond imagining.. (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by jondee on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:28:01 PM EST
    tawdrey..appalling..words are inadequate.

    It's never been so emotionally satisfying for me to say of an institution (in the vernacular of the peasantry): lawyer up, mfers.

    Parent

    please don't post (none / 0) (#3)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:25:07 PM EST
    unsubstantiated rumors here.

    Parent
    Probably via Huffington Post. (none / 0) (#6)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:32:53 PM EST
    Headline says "rumor."  

    Parent
    J, it may (none / 0) (#8)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:33:46 PM EST
    be a rumor, but it has already hit Huffington Post and the Philadelphia sports radio shows...

    Parent
    The report is (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by CoralGables on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 09:10:53 PM EST
    that someone heard there might be a rumor. That makes the Huffington Post an online version of the New York Post.

    Parent
    Virgil's "Aeneid," Book IV: (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 10:18:59 PM EST
         
    At once Rumour runs through Libya's great cities - Rumour the swiftest of all evils. Speed lends her strength, and she winds vigour as she goes; small at first through fear, soon she mounts up to heaven, and walks the ground with head hidden in the clouds. Mother Earth, provoked to anger against the gods, brought her forth last, they, say as sister to Coeus and Enceladus, swift of foot and fleet of wing, a monster awful and huge, who for the many feathers in her body has as many watchful eyes beneath - wondrous to tell - as many tongues, as many sounding mouths, as many pricked-up ears. By night, midway between heaven and earth, she flies through the gloom, screeching, and droops not her eyes in sweet sleep; by day she sits on guard on high rooftop or lofty turrets, and affrights great cities, clinging to the false and the wrong, yet heralding truth. Now exulting in manifold gossip, she filled the nations and sang alike of fact and falsehood, how Aeneas is come, one born of Trojan blood, to whom in marriage fair Dido deigns to join herself; now they while away the winter, all its length, in wanton ease together, heedless of their realms and enthralled by shameless passion. These tales the foul goddess spreads here and there upon the lips of men. Straightway to King Iarbas she bends her course, and with her words fires his spirit and heaps high his wrath.


    Parent
    "the swiftest of all evils." (none / 0) (#66)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 10:25:59 PM EST
    And Pittsburgh (none / 0) (#10)
    by jbindc on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:44:37 PM EST
    And (none / 0) (#11)
    by jbindc on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:46:33 PM EST
    Yahoo, CBS in Chicago, etc.


    Parent
    Analogy re moral responsibility: (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:27:51 PM EST
    NPR report recently on Village Voiceads which sometimes result in sex trafficking.  Is it moral?  Apparently, once Craigslist shut down it's similar ad category, Village Voice is THE place to post.  link

    So (none / 0) (#15)
    by coast on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:59:01 PM EST
    4 accusations of se%ual harassment carries more weight here than a grand jury indictment which includes eye witness testimony and testimony under oath of no less than seven victims of child ra@e.  Please.

    I see no evidence (none / 0) (#16)
    by sj on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:03:55 PM EST
    of the validity of this statement.

    Parent
    Please point me to any one of the threads (none / 0) (#23)
    by coast on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:15:47 PM EST
     related to Cain where someone, anyone, made the observation that these are only accusations and judgement should be held until they are properly investigated and brought to trial.

    Parent
    Please look for yourself (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Yman on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:28:45 PM EST
    The comments are right there.

    More importantly, while there is plenty of outrage against Sandusky and others who are alleged to have covered up his acts in his case, people may be choosing to withhold judgment until the facts are more fully developed and both sides have a chance to be heard.  This is because Sandusky (and others) are facing criminal charges.  As such, many afford them the benefit-of-the-doubt - innocent until proven guilty and all that.

    Cain, OTOH, is a politician running for office and is not (and will not) be facing criminal charges, since (even if his conduct arguably constituted a crime) the statute of limitations has run on the events in question.  He is not even facing a civil suit, merely the court of public opinion.

    Parent

    ok (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by coast on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:47:14 PM EST
    I am waiting to hear more (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 06:52:12 PM EST
    I don't know how this many people could have seen and "known" what had taken place at different times, and not known or not have cover up taking place on some level.  And if you are a lowly janitor and say you saw something that a football GIANT was doing and then nothing happens?????  What do you do with that?

    Little defenseless people were being emotionally destroyed by a football legend.  When we do hear everything that will be revealed, I think this is going to be an awful awful thing to behold.

    Parent

    It's a pretty direct parallel (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 12:51:37 AM EST
    to the Catholic church, except these people don't have the excuse of a strong religious mandate to forgive and help, rather than condemn and report.


    Parent
    I don't know where (none / 0) (#17)
    by jondee on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:04:18 PM EST
    you're getting that from.

    Who specifically "here" are you talking about?

    Parent

    Joe is a scapegoat, (none / 0) (#28)
    by vicndabx on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:31:35 PM EST
    IMO.  Seems to have had some beefs w/the board at Penn State also - perfect opportunity to get him out.

    Thank you for delineating the facts as they are known currently - and also reaffirming the boundaries.....

    finally...."a former player named Franco Harris"....:-)

    Harris was chosen for 9 consecutive Pro Bowls (from 1972 through 1980), and was All-Pro in 1977. Harris rushed for more than 1,000 yards in 8 seasons, breaking a record set by Jim Brown.


    Franco Harris is on the board of (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 05:48:28 PM EST
    Second Mile, for whatever that's worth.

    Firing Joe Paterno isn't going to end the scandal, by any means, but he's said that he knew about the incident in 2002, and was aware of the accusations in 1998.  Call me crazy, but if I knew that Sandusky had been accused of - for lack of a better term - "inappropriate" behavior with children in 1998, I think being told of the shower incident in 2002 might have raised a huge red flag that warranted more than just reporting to the AD.

    Considering what all of these people have exposed the university to, and how it will negatively impact students and football players who weren't any part of it, but who will suffer the consequences, I think firing was more than justified.

    Parent

    I really don't get why you think (1.00 / 2) (#72)
    by Green26 on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 11:42:38 PM EST
    the various renditions of what was known, even the worst ones, would have merited more than reporting it upward and taking  other action that they appeared to have taken out of the public view. This guy was known to them and a friend. Some action was taken. Other than the vague Penn law on administrators reporting  sexual abuse, why to you think these guys should have reported this? Have you never observed crimes occurring, like people you know doing drugs or selling drugs or stealing things? Did you report them? Is it just because this was apparently child molestation?

    Parent
    Some "vague" local law? Hardly. (none / 0) (#74)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 12:34:28 AM EST
    The Clery Act is federal law, covering all private as well as public campuses* -- and since 1990, covering all of the instances in the indictment.

    *There would be one exception, the only campus in the country, so I understand, which refuses to receive or allow any faculty or students or others to recieve any federal funding.  (Private campuses may not receive federal funding directly, but this and other laws with such a stipulation encompass federal financial aid to students, federal research grants to faculty or administrators, etc.)

    Parent

    As for "apparent" child rape (none / 0) (#75)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 12:36:15 AM EST
    Sandusky has admitted it, according to the indictment.

    Have you read into the case at all, or are you relying only on what other unread sorts say?

    Parent

    Green26 is the torture advocate (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by shoephone on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 01:04:55 AM EST
    He's the guy who used to come here and nonchalantly advocate for torturing detainees because... well, his son's in the army, and somehow that justifies it.

    It's no wonder he's not bothered by child rape. He's all in favor of sadism.

    Parent

    Franco Harris (none / 0) (#124)
    by Makarov on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 12:20:08 PM EST
    is on the "Honorary Board" of the Second Mile charity.

    Former honorary board members reportedly include Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and Bob Hope.

    Just saying.

    Parent

    I liked Jeralyns description of Harris too. (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 06:34:25 PM EST
    Very endearing. I wish I could imagine my brain without names like Franco Harris and Terry Bradshaw permanently engraved. My only defense of my misspent youth is that I usually had a book in my hands as I watched football with the family every Sunday of my grade school/high school years.

    Parent
    It is funny (none / 0) (#79)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 12:56:17 AM EST
    I don't follow football at all, but even I know (roughly) who Franco Harris is.  (Also Joe Paterno)

    Parent
    The 33rd Statewide Investigating Grand Jury (none / 0) (#39)
    by KeysDan on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 05:04:11 PM EST
    findings of fact and recommendation of charges hinge, in large measure, on the credibility of the then graduate assistant, Mike McQueary.  McQueary testified that on Friday night, March 1, 2002 he entered the football building to put his newly purchased shoes in his locker, saw lights on in the shower, heard "rhythmic slapping sounds" he believed to be the sounds of sexual activity, looked into the shower to see a naked boy estimated to be 10, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky. Sandusky was well known and recognizable to McQueary.  

    Differences exist if the explicitness, described above,  was reported to Coach Paterno, Athletic Director (and Paterno's immediate superior) Tim Curley, Sr. Vice President for Finances and Business, Gary Schultz (and overseer of the campus police), and President Spanier.   The reporting of the activity ranges from fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy, to horsing around, to disturbing to inappropriate. Schultz even had no specific memory, maybe grabbing of genitals.  

    The grand jury found McQueary to be "extremely credible", and, indeed, the charge against Curley is that he provided "materially false statements under oath" in an official grand jury proceeding Jan 12, 20ll that, regarding the 2002 incident, he was not told by the graduate assistant that Sandusky was engaged in sexual conduct or anal sex with a boy in the football building showers.  Schultz also was charged with providing a materially false statement under oath on January 12, 2011 when testifying that the allegations made by the graduate assistant about the 2002 episode were "not that serious" and that he and Curley "had no indication that a crime occurred."

     Paterno is, at this point and perhaps at all points, off the hook legally, but he is not covered in glory in this case, nor, for that matter is McQueary as credible as his testimony may be.  

    I object to the idea that (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 12:59:52 AM EST
    sexual molestation short of the actual rape that occurred imposed less of a moral obligation on Paterno or anyone else involved in this.

    Parent
    Exactly. (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by shoephone on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 01:08:04 AM EST
    There are, obviously, degrees of abuse. But these acts are all abusive acts, and all are unacceptable.

    Parent
    I've written about this at length (none / 0) (#49)
    by rdandrea on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 07:33:02 PM EST
    Here.

    Not going to duplicate it.

    Try this one (none / 0) (#84)
    by rdandrea on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 01:33:08 AM EST
    Here.  I don't know how I messed up the other one.

    Parent
    Been playing for 2 days (none / 0) (#64)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 10:19:51 PM EST
    and have read/seen almost nothing beyond the bare facts..

    But for what it's worth, the players have shown no sympathy for Paterno.

    This is not true. (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Green26 on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 11:26:43 PM EST
    The players gave Paterno a standing ovation when he told them he had been fired. While he was emotional, and they of course noticedf that, he also told the players that it was important to beat Nebraska this weekend, which is the last home game for the seniors and would have been Paterno's last home game.

    Parent
    Uh... (none / 0) (#89)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 07:44:04 AM EST
    My moniker is jim aka ppj...

    That's "Poker Player Jim."

    Hope this explains my comment.

    Parent

    I always think of you as (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by DFLer on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 09:25:16 AM EST
    "make a peanut Butter and Jelly sandwich" .....for some reason

    Parent
    Call me anything but late for supper (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 04:45:00 PM EST
    ;-)

    Parent
    LOL! (none / 0) (#90)
    by Zorba on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 07:49:15 AM EST
    And he/she is not a particularly new commenter, either.  He/she must not read all or most of the comments, though.   ;-)

    Parent
    Paterno Just Lawyered Up (none / 0) (#65)
    by Jade Jordan on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 10:24:03 PM EST
    I'm guessing there is more to the story than has been released.  Hiring George Bush's criminal lawyer:  J. Sedgwick Sollers seems like an overreach for what has been revealed so far.

    Lawyered up

    Where is the DA from the 1998 case.  Declared dead after 7 years. It's a good bet that the last shoe has not dropped yet.

    Missing DA

    When involved in a legal matter (none / 0) (#97)
    by BobTinKY on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 08:27:12 AM EST
    lawyering up is viewed as evidence of guilt?

    If you're in situation that involves groups of attorneys talking about what you may or may not have done, it's generally a good idea to get one of your own.

    Guess I am missing the point on the missing DA, are we suggesting this matter led to the several years later dissappearance of the DA?  I have a hard time connecting the two but stranger things have happened, we'll see.

    Parent

    How Santorum gets in the Mix (none / 0) (#71)
    by someTV on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 11:39:10 PM EST
    From Esquire:

    3. Ah, but Walsh's prize from the FRC is not the most embarrassing award to come to light this week. That honor goes to the Pompeii beneath Google Mountain, Rick Santorum. Nine years ago, it seems, Rick sponsored, for the honor of "Congressional Angel in Adoption," Jerry Sandusky, the former Penn State assistant football coach who is presently accused of multiple acts of child molestation and rape, and whose long career as a predator may well bring down the whole football program at Santorum's alma mater. Obviously outraged, Santorum reached deep into the well of his anger and pulled up this bucket of mealy-mouthed slop:

    "Look, I pray and hope that he [PSU coach Joe Paterno] didn't do anything he shouldn't have done, but it certainly looks horrible for the university, horrible for the football program and obviously people were fired, should be fired."

    Of course, as the report above says, since the Penn State scandal broke, Santorum "has been circumspect in his comments about it. (He is not implicated in any way.)"

    By contrast, here's what he once said about gay marriage:

    "This is an issue just like 9/11. We didn't decide we wanted to fight the war on terrorism because we wanted to. It was brought to us. And if not now, when? When the supreme courts in all the other states have succumbed to the Massachusetts version of the law?"
    Twit.



    "a former player named Franco Harris" (none / 0) (#91)
    by BobTinKY on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 08:05:15 AM EST
    anyone ever heard of him before?

    :)

    Immaculately (none / 0) (#112)
    by CoralGables on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 10:54:45 AM EST
    Yes

    Parent
    I loved him in "Camelot" too (none / 0) (#127)
    by DFLer on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 01:13:05 PM EST
    true, (none / 0) (#130)
    by cpinva on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 01:23:28 PM EST
    but i didn't care for his rendition of "mcarthur park".

    Parent
    Have you read the GJ testimony? (none / 0) (#92)
    by BobTinKY on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 08:08:50 AM EST
    not thinking it a stretch is not the standard here, I think it is beyond reasonable doubt.

    that was (none / 0) (#129)
    by cpinva on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 01:20:23 PM EST
    facetiousness on my part, since so many other posters seem to think that mr. paterno did the right thing. he didn't, and i'll happily bear a torch and pitchfork to his front yard.

    Parent
    A Couple of Notes (none / 0) (#108)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 10:10:28 AM EST
    How did McQueary not get fired, he committed the same moral lapses as Paterno and he witnessed the alleged crime ?

    Even if nothing happened, there is an moral obligation to report crimes against the defenseless to the police.  For people who built their reputations/careers on honesty and ethics, it is a huge lapse of sense to not report what was perceived as the raping of a child.  Just more common sense they will need to write into law because some of our 'finest' citizens didn't get the memo.

    The frenzy in this case seems well deserved, the real question is will the NCAA do anything.  I know it's not sneakers for autographs, but they need to figure out if not reporting an alleged felony is worse than free sneakers, and worthy of their wrath.

    Never heard of Paterno ?  He's more famous than Brett Favre, Lou Holtz, or Carl Lewis.  I think one would have to go out of their way not to have heard of Paterno.  Guess he should have made a debut on DWTS, then everyone on the planet would know his name and we could gossip all day long about him.

    I didn't remember reading all this 'Let the Courts Figure it Out' when the allegations were against the Catholic Church.  Just been noticing a lot hypocrisy in posts lately, lots of gossip, except in regards to high profile cases, then gossip machine is filtered and a new lust for the ____ emerges.

    And lastly, did Cain catch a break.  That frenzy was not deserved.  The allegation should be investigated, but not front page for a week.

    I can understand... (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 10:25:20 AM EST
    Paterno not calling the police on a longtime friend and colleague, especially since afaik he did not witness anything himself...but if you go that route you better damn make sure you investigate the allegations yourself, and you better damn make sure your friend ceases all work with children and gets some help, and if not call the police.  Finding the kid's parents and telling them the allegations as well, so they can decide whether to call the authorities. That would fulfill any moral obligation of Paterno's, imo.

    If what we're hearing about McQueary is true, I do not see any justification for him not calling the cops, having bore witness, especially if he wasn't gonna beat Sandusky to a pulp and save that kid from further harm right there.  


    Parent

    Sorry Bro (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 11:51:28 AM EST
    I'd call the cops on my pops, best friends, or anyone if someone I trusted told me they saw what they saw.

    McQueary is a trusted confidant, right-hand man if you will.

    I used to go out with a girl whose dad molested her, and the family kept in quiet, no counseling, no justice and I saw what it did to her deep down.  This is beyond parent's rights, good friends, this is about cruel acts to kids that really F them up.

    I think a lot of this stuff goes on, the covering up part, and it leaves the victims shammed, so shammed that the act committed against them was so shameful the people around them couldn't/wouldn't go public because of the shamefulness of it.  Just being near it is shameful, how do you think the victims feel ?

    That has devastating effects on one's psyche, effects no one should have to experience.  Imagine being one of these men, knowing this could have been stopped and it wasn't because a friend didn't want to rat another out.

    I am no friend of the police, but to me there are certain crimes that can not go unreported, this is probably one or two on my list of maybe five.  You're part of the Lufthansa Heist, my lips are sealed, you kill someone, sorry but the cops are going to get a call, friend of not.

    Parent

    I can respect that position... (none / 0) (#121)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 11:57:36 AM EST
    and I sure hope I'm never put in such a position.

    Parent
    I Know (none / 0) (#123)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 12:11:17 PM EST
    Saying I would call the cops is the easy part, it's another thing to actually do it.

    Parent
    If alot of people aren't sure whether (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by jondee on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 03:19:37 PM EST
    they'd intervene when a child's being raped..well, what more confirmation do we need for why so many Germans went-along-to-get-along in the thirties and after?

    Are we a cowed, confused, bunch or what?

    Parent

    Yup. Dija see that vid (5.00 / 0) (#140)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 03:54:51 PM EST
    of a toddler getting run over by a delivery truck in China?

    Not only did the driver not stop after running over the child with both front and back tires, but something like a dozen people then strolled by and looked at the the child laying in the street, unconscious, in a large pool of her own blood, and did nothing.

    Truly heartrending.

    Parent

    Heart-rending redux (5.00 / 0) (#152)
    by christinep on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 04:50:44 PM EST
    A very long time ago, I remember the news account of the death of one Kathleen Genovese in New York. She was assaulted & killed in open view; and, others walked by. Noone helped.

    I was only a child, but something told to remember the name, her name...Genovese. (And, during this PSU situation, that name has come to mind several times.)

    Parent

    That's really true (5.00 / 0) (#153)
    by sj on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 06:13:50 PM EST
    But honestly, until we actually find ourselves in just such a situation which calls upon us to rise to the occasion, it's rather sort of silly for any of us to so vociferously assert a prospective hypothetical, isn't it?

    But one thing that I've found is that pondering these [types of] things has an affect on future behavior.  There are some things that, were I ever to encounter, I wouldn't have known how to respond if weren't for discussion here and other places.

    Small example, I've always been uncomfortable with little "thefts" (like the things left unseen in the grocery cart until you pick up your bags to go) but it was 50/50 whether I would speak up.  After giving it conscious thought and comparing my reaction to the reactions of others it's a no-brainer now.  Pay for it or put it back.  Always.  10 cents or 10 dollars.  It doesn't matter.

    Likewise, now I will always speak up when I see a parent manhandling a child.  I will always speak up when I see the elderly being run roughshod.  I will always empty my pockets (within reason) for a panhandler.  I will always report and intervene if I see evidence of a child being assualted in any way.

    But if I'd never been exposed to discussions like this I might not know what to do.  With my luck I'll encounter something not discussed in advance, but everyone here has contributed to the likelihood that I would "do the right thing".

    Parent

    Agree that we don't know what we would, (none / 0) (#150)
    by christinep on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 04:46:28 PM EST
    in fact, do. We know what we would like to do.

    All week, I've been thinking about the classical definition of a tragedy. Not just Oedipus nor Lear. But, about those heroes today and those would-be heroes & giants on the stage. Thinking about the grandness, the goodness of character & life...and the tragic flaw.  Thinking about how, unbenownst to the central individual, the life & character challenge is presented...and met or not.

    Parent

    What if McQueary... (none / 0) (#110)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 10:40:51 AM EST
    ...was one of Sandusky's victims?  IIRC, he did grow up in State College.

    Parent
    That would be another sordid wrinkle... (none / 0) (#111)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 10:51:13 AM EST
    in this sick f*ckin' affair wouldn't it...kinda like a molested altar boy joining the priesthood.

    That would somewhat explain the deer in the headlights reaction to what he claims to have witnessed.  Or he froze not believing what he was witnessing. I just hope he wasn't thinking of his job prospects or the "institution", like some of his higher-ups appear to have been solely concerned with.

    Parent

    It is just so hard to believe... (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 11:07:51 AM EST
    that anyone could be so cold and calculating to be considering their future job prospects when confronted with witnessing such an evil, horrendious act in person.  

    Stockholm syndrome is the only thing that I can think of that would even come close to explaining his actions.  

    We shall see.  

    Parent

    welcome to college football milehi. (5.00 / 0) (#131)
    by cpinva on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 01:26:02 PM EST
    there is a special circle in the inferno, reserved for these people.

    Parent
    I'm with you... (none / 0) (#114)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 11:10:47 AM EST
    but human beings are full of nasty surprises.

    Parent
    Well, as we know, he got a job (none / 0) (#132)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 01:50:43 PM EST
    coaching there.  CYA?  Reward?  

    Parent
    Probably (none / 0) (#117)
    by jbindc on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 11:39:53 AM EST
    Because he is a whistle blower of sorts?  Maybe his job us safe in return for his testimony?

    Parent
    He's also a potential witness (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by rdandrea on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 11:48:09 AM EST
    in at least three upcoming criminal trials.

    I think Penn State is going to tread very lightly around Mike McQueary lest the institution be charged with trying to intimidate him.

    Parent

    There's one great (none / 0) (#125)
    by Makarov on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 12:31:04 PM EST
    article about Paterno that I encourage everyone to read. I'll include only a small part.

    The End of Paterno

    Paterno has paid a price here. His job is gone. His life's work has been soiled. His reputation is in tatters. Maybe that should be the price. Maybe there should be more of a price. You don't have to type: "Well, his price is nothing like the price of those victims..." I already know that.

    But I think the way Joe Paterno has lived his life has earned him something more than instant fury, more than immediate assumptions of the worst, more than the happy cheers of critics who have always believed that there was something phony about the man and his ideals. He deserves what I would hope we all deserve -- for the truth to come out, or, anyway, the closest thing to truth we can find.

    I don't think Joe Paterno has gotten that. And I think that's sad.



    This is long-deferred fury (5.00 / 0) (#151)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 04:48:50 PM EST
    for some involved, certainly.  Switch perspectives.

    And he and a lot of others involved on the wrong side of this also certainly ought to have seen the writing on the wall more than half a year ago, when this story was reported in a Pennsylvania paper (which ought to get a Pulitzer for courage).

    I have yet to see an explanation for why, with this story out in the media for so many months, it took the grand jury indictment to get more media attention to this now.

    But, again, that's a metamedia question.  Again, as for Paterno and the rest, how they possibly could rest easy regarding their careers since that story may suggest a level of hubris that also explains a lot.

    Parent

    Did Woody Hayes get a big retirement party? (none / 0) (#133)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 01:52:09 PM EST


    He did and should have (none / 0) (#144)
    by Buckeye on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 04:08:13 PM EST
    I hope you are not going to equate this scandal with an old man pushing and grabbing a 22 year old kids in full pads that was trash talking our bench after an interception?

    Parent
    this thread has so many comments (none / 0) (#154)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 07:56:51 PM EST
    it's skewed when you view it in nested mode.

    Here's a new thread on the case.

    I'm closing this one now. Thanks.