Friday Open Thread

I'll be in court most of the day, here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Class Warfar Indeed (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 10:20:58 AM EST
    1 out of 7 US households struggle to feed everyone
    The percentage of households who experienced food insecurity in 2010 was virtually unchanged from 2009. But it has risen by about 3 percentage points since 2007, the year the country officially went into recession.

    CEO pay rises 28 percent -- in one year

    If you were already in the top quartile of high-paid plutocrats, your comp nearly doubled. Cash bonuses are triple what they were before the recession.

    Can't lower the number of families struggling to eat, yet by some miracle we giving CEO's nearly 30% pay raises.

    And what's Obama's plan, give the cash soaked companies tax breaks.

    Thanks (5.00 / 0) (#29)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 01:05:12 PM EST
    all on my facebook now.  My daughter says to me this morning that she guesses that I don't have many people from the South as facebook friends, she could never put up the things that I do.  I guess if my Southern friends don't like me, they can unfriend me.

    So, that whole mortgage securitization (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 10:39:54 AM EST
    thing worked out so well, why not try cranking it up again?

    The Obama administration and a federal housing regulator are considering a program to draw private investment back into the government-dominated mortgage market by having Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac sell slices of securities that wouldn't carry a federal guarantee but would pay a higher interest rate than current mortgage-backed bonds.

    No decisions have been made, but officials believe a small pilot program could be rolled out sometime next year, according to people familiar with the matter.

    Officials see it as a step toward reducing the $10.4 trillion U.S. mortgage market's dependence on government-controlled mortgage companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

    The move would test the willingness of private investors to share the risk of funding home loans that are packaged by Fannie and Freddie. If the program were expanded significantly, it would likely raise mortgage rates over time because private investors would require greater returns than Fannie and Freddie currently do.

    David Dayen (my bold):

    I recognize that this is a way to unwind Fannie and Freddie's portfolio and return the housing market to private hands. I know a way to do that - have banks give out mortgages that they make a profit on over a 30-year time horizon. There is no divine right to maximize profits through a securitization scheme that proved successful in clouding title and breaking the residential housing market. The way it worked in the past - where you knew your lender and they held onto your mortgage - was actually pretty OK.

    I wonder who in the Obama administration is pushing this...

    I think the question may be (5.00 / 0) (#27)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 01:02:58 PM EST
    who in the administration ISN'T pushing this.

    just saw it, doing it tomorrow. (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Oct 24, 2011 at 06:51:01 PM EST
    Aloha, and please support independence.

    And the Royal Hollywaiians.


    This particular commenter includes (none / 0) (#55)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:38:16 PM EST
    e-mail add. in "info."

    House bill to give Robo-Callers your cell number (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 10:47:06 AM EST
    "A broader proposal, however, falls under House Bill 3035, called the Mobile Informational Call Act of 2011 and it allows all businesses -- debt collectors, banks, airlines, grocers, department stores, etc. -- to use the same automatic dialing technology to call your cell phone..."

    I'm surprised... (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 10:56:53 AM EST
    there isn't a provision making use of caller id a felony as well.

    Please, Dog (none / 0) (#7)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 11:34:22 AM EST
    Don't give them any ideas!   ;-)

    Got a Call last Week From a Canadian Pharmacy... (none / 0) (#10)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 11:43:27 AM EST
     ...yet the number was local and the guy on the phone spoke with an Indian accent.

    Too bad I was in company in which I couldn't take the call.  I'm curious as to what they were going to offer me, the blue or the red pills.

    I got a good scolding a couple years back.  I was so sick of junk mail, I started putting it in the out going mail slot in my lobby.  Something must have gotten through with my name on it and the mailman was not amused.  I literally got a warning, still not sure what that means, but apparently 'The Mattress King' and 'Bugzilla' holds more claim to my mailbox that I do.


    Probably a caller ID glitch... (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 11:57:06 AM EST
    happens here on my work phone all the time.

    They done f*cked up giving me Caller ID, big mistake...the do*chey customers can tell it to the voicemail!

    Go easy on your letter carrier bro, that junk mail may be annoying, but its keepin' my brother and all my softball pals employed.  The cr*p postal employees are putting up with from management right now has 'em all a bit ornery.


    I Was Actaully Embarrassed... (none / 0) (#18)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 12:30:36 PM EST
    ... over it and I don't embarrass that easy.  I know he is only doing his job, plus of course the big one, I didn't need grandmas care packages getting the 'special' treatment.

    And sorry about your brother/pals, but I don't make a distinction between telemarketers and junk mail, both are an invasions of my space.  And the junk mail is pure waste, how many trees to cover a years worth of junk, I bet I got 5 trees.

    And in the end all they are doing is trying to separate people from their hard earned cash using deception for cr@p they don't need.

    The phone wasn't a mistake, they can change their outgoing number for caller ID.  I can do it on my phone, or use my Google number which is a California area code.


    I tolerste junk mail because (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by DFLer on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 12:43:09 PM EST
    1. I recycle it immediately
    2. I figure someone's paying postage and helping keep the USPS going

    tolerate - duh (none / 0) (#20)
    by DFLer on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 12:43:32 PM EST
    The thing is... (none / 0) (#24)
    by lentinel on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 12:53:03 PM EST
    I believe that they get much much better rates for sending out their stuff than we do.

    So we're subsidizing this stuff anyway.


    Don't Hate (none / 0) (#37)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 01:59:19 PM EST
    But Texas doesn't recycle, not even here at the office.  That is why the waste really bothers me.

    And no offense, but government agencies aren't suppose to turn a profit or even support themselves.  Imagine if people expected the military/FBI/DEA/Congress to support themselves..... stooopid.

    And they sure as hell aren't suppose to be agents of private commerce that bring junk to my door that I don't want.


    Hopefully the lack of recycling in TX bothers you (5.00 / 0) (#129)
    by DFLer on Sat Oct 15, 2011 at 09:42:19 AM EST
    as much as junk mail. Good lord! Now recycling in TX. What century is this?

    A friend went to an Internet site (none / 0) (#42)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:11:15 PM EST
    where one may unsubscribe to real (not virtual) junk mail.  I don't know the name of the site.  It took some time to do it.

    Really ? (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:29:02 PM EST
    I will see if I can track that down later.

    I don't care about the effort, it will be a challenge.

    Lately I have been thinking with everything going on, how we are truly a Corporate run/owned country.  I estimate in any given day we a subjugated to 10,000 pieces of corporate advertizing.

    Right now in my office, I bet there are 100 logos, it's not enough that I buy there stuff, they still have to tack their name on it, which in my mind is free advertizing.  Then on my drive, maybe 8 miles (5 on freeway), from cars to buildings, to signs, to billboards, a couple thousands easily, add in radio's endless rush hour ads.  Even in my own home, it's GD Las Vegas with all the advertizing.  From fridge magnets, to the mail, to the junk left at my door, to TV.  Which I would add is probably the lowest density ads available.  My medicine cabinet probably has more advertizing than 12 hours of TV.

    I am so stupid I paid money to have a great big ad on my Tshirt, all of this is even before I turn on the computer.  That good for at least a couple hundred ads per hour.

    Not point really, just starting to really bother me how smothered we are, it can not be healthy. And it's no wonder some people crave money more than morality, it's no wonder it's flowing up stream so fast, they are practically brainwashing the entire planet, one ad at a time.


    I once refused to buy an a logo commuter (none / 0) (#78)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:44:08 PM EST
    cup, which I wanted.  Liked the design.  My friends ptd. to my Patagonia fleece branded pullover.  

    The Postal Service isn't (none / 0) (#71)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:14:09 PM EST
    a government agency.  It was spun off years ago and told it had to support itself with no additional funding.

    A quick check of Wikipedia (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by sj on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:58:41 PM EST
    Doesn't confirm that.  While I wouldn't put it past Congress to make them self-supporting it is specifically mentioned in the constitution.  Is this what you meant?

    In 1971, the Post Office Department was re-organized into the United States Postal Service, a special agency independent of the executive branch. Thus, the Postmaster General is no longer a member of the Cabinet and is no longer in Presidential succession.

    Bottom line is PO (5.00 / 0) (#124)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Oct 15, 2011 at 12:55:25 AM EST
    gets no funding. It has to be self-supporting.  Thus the increasing emphasis on junk mail, which is the only way they can survive.  Ridiculous, IMO.  Seeing to it that the mail is delivered to citizens at a reasonable cost is one the most basic functions of government.

    Don't you wish the Pentagon (5.00 / 0) (#131)
    by sj on Sat Oct 15, 2011 at 03:55:54 PM EST
    had to be self-supporting, too?

    No, actually (none / 0) (#135)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 12:34:53 AM EST
    Think of what they would do to get the money they needed to self-perpetuate...

    Post Office & Constitutiion (none / 0) (#134)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 09:05:25 AM EST
    Article I, Section 8:

    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

    To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

    To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

    To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

    To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

    To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

    To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

    To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

    To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

    To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

    To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

    To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

    To provide and maintain a Navy;

    To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

    There's more, yet only one stands out having to be self supporting.


    So What Are They ? (none / 0) (#76)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:36:14 PM EST
    I though they were intertwined into the Constitution.

    Parts of Texas Recycle (none / 0) (#132)
    by sumac on Sat Oct 15, 2011 at 04:19:33 PM EST
    Here in Austin we recycle paper, glass, aluminum and plastic. My recycling bin is as big as my trash can (though the recycling is only picked up every two weeks).

    Guess this is where being active in your local government really can make a difference.


    Proof that the Nat'l Do Not Call Registry (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by shoephone on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 11:43:13 AM EST
    was always a hoax on consumers.



    And for you New Yorkers... (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by shoephone on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 11:53:45 AM EST
    this guy is one of the co-sponsors of the bill.

    The beauty of this (5.00 / 0) (#22)
    by lentinel on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 12:49:51 PM EST
    is that the unlucky recipient of this garbage on a cell phone is charged for the call.

    So the providers can send you a sales pitch and charge you for it too.

    Truly breathtaking in its majestic roguery.


    Especially... (none / 0) (#28)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 01:04:49 PM EST
     ...if the call is about changing/upgrading plans because you no longer have enough minutes.

    I called my congressman (none / 0) (#58)
    by shoephone on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:40:02 PM EST
    to vociferously oppose this bill. He serves on that committee. I expect him to ignore any complaints and vote in favor, especially because of the robo-calling item included in it. After all, he is running for governor.

    This is rich... (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 12:59:34 PM EST
    the owners of Zuccotti Park, Brookfield Properties, an 8 billon dollar company, received approx. 700 large in public assistance after 9/11.  Appears the state treated a subsidiary as a seperate small business to make the handout possible.

    So by my count, OWS's rent for the space is paid through 2013 at least:)

    Okay...Anwar al-Awlaki? Killed. Check. (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:09:31 PM EST
    Joseph Kony?  Look out, pal, there's a target on your back.

    From David Dayen (bold is mine):

    The President, in a letter to Congress, just acknowledged that he deployed approximately 100 combat forces to central Africa to assist in the fight against the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) there.


    The President notes in the letter that the combat team deployed on October 12, two days ago. And he promises that a "second combat-equipped team" will deploy sometime in the next month.

    This relatively small force will be able to go into Uganda, South Sudan, the Central African Republic, and the Democratic Republic of the Congo, subject to approval from each of those countries. So you have a small roving band of US military personnel trying to take out Joseph Kony in Africa. The justification comes from a law called the Lord's Resistance Army Disarmament and Northern Uganda Recovery Act of 2009, originally sponsored by Russ Feingold. Human Rights Watch were among the endorsers of the bill. I'm not sure this is what they had in mind. The bills authorizes the President to "provide additional assistance" to the region affected by the LRA, but there is absolutely nothing about the deployment of combat forces in that law.  The Constitution reserves this right for Congress alone, and they did not grant it in the Lord's Resistance Army Disarmament and Northern Uganda Recovery Act of 2009. There's a clause about "political, economic, military, and intelligence support" that I suppose is the thin reed upon which this all hangs. The signing statement by the President after passage of the law says absolutely nothing about the deployment of forces.

    More from ABC. The forces are combat-equipped but supposedly only giving logistical advice. However, the order is a capture or kill order on Joseph Kony.  But I guess it doesn't constitute "hostilities."

    Your Unitary Executive in action.  

    Pres. Obama deployed 100 U.S. military (5.00 / 0) (#48)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:27:06 PM EST
    personnel to central Africa: link

    U.S. "advisors."  

    See my comment at #41. (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:50:56 PM EST
    From the letter:
    On October 12, the initial team of U.S. military personnel with appropriate combat equipment deployed to Uganda. During the next month, additional forces will deploy, including a second combat-equipped team and associated headquarters, communications, and logistics personnel.

    Do we "deploy" advisors?  Are advisors "deployed" with "appropriate combat equipment?"  Are advisors considered "forces?"  Do we normally refer to advisors as a "combat equipped team?"

    Also, from ABC:

    Two days ago President Obama authorized the deployment to Uganda of approximately 100 combat-equipped U.S. forces to help regional forces "remove from the battlefield" - meaning capture or kill - Lord's Resistance Army leader Joseph Kony and senior leaders of the LRA.

    I'm sorry, but the kill order seems to suggest that the "advice" we intend to provide will be delivered via weapons of some kind.


    Well, let's see (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:11:42 PM EST
    "Advisors" are deployed?  Where have I heard this before?  "Advisors" are authorized to kill?  And does Obama ever read history?  Guess not.  Can we get the Nobel Committee to take his Nobel Peace prize back yet?

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
    George Santayana


    Difficult to understand how 100 of our finest (none / 0) (#69)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:06:49 PM EST
    will help resolve a 20-yr. standing problem, and how this situation endangers safety of U.S.  

    Hard for me to see, too, oculus (none / 0) (#94)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 04:23:45 PM EST
    But I suppose we continually feel the need to be "policemen to the world."  Particularly if that part of the world that we think we need to police "has largely untapped reserves of both crude oil and natural gas."  (Not to mention "sizable mineral deposits of copper and cobalt.")  Link

    Agree (none / 0) (#127)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Oct 15, 2011 at 06:49:14 AM EST
    And last night when we were out with friends everyone of every different political stripe agreed too.  What the hell is he doing?

    Wag the Dog? (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by oculus on Sat Oct 15, 2011 at 09:23:58 AM EST
    The rebels of the Lord's Resistance Army (5.00 / 0) (#95)
    by KeysDan on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 04:24:20 PM EST
    have terrorized villagers, but the military and authoritative regime of Uganda's president Yower Museveni is not exactly saintly requiring us to prop him up.  Of course, there is more going on than meets this eye--Obama's "Brothers in Christ", Senator Tom Coburn will approve and Senator James Inhoff is a frequent flyer to Uganda. These guys and other C Street members of the "Family", have a Christian missionary relationship with Uganda.

    Of course, this is the same Uganda with the anti-homosexual
    campaign encouraged and supported by the Family and a pet project of the Uganda president.  And, anti-homosexual in this case means more than opposition to same sex marriage, more like gay genocide.  But, this, apparently,  is a good opportunity to cultivate bipartisanship.


    The Obamaton (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by Jackson Hunter on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:29:41 PM EST
    faction at D-Kos is starting to sour on the whole movement, there are even cries of "Fake" and things like that, but the Cedwyns (her of the infamous "Let's control the Rec List on Daily Kos", try to stifle THAT Meteor Blades), the Bob Johnsons (who once mocked Slinkerwink for being deaf, boy, ain't that piece of effing garbage a hero. I hope rats chew his b*lls in Hell for that.) And those assorted miscreants realize that they will not be able to co-opt this movement, because at least part of its creation was due to President Obama himself. Obviously, he doesn't get much of the blame, but he could of helped himself a lot more by actually advocating for the Little Guy.

    Do I need to pull out the "savvy business man" quotes and the whole legion of evidence against Obama on this score? That even some Conservatives at the time felt that the new regs passed were insufficient, let alone any true Liberal? (Progressives are apparently former Regressives who at outstandidly old ages realized that Republicans are greedy, evil, and stupid. I won't call myself one EVER again. I knew that they were stupid when I was freaking 11 and hated Reagan's guts. He was as transparent as air.)

    Of course their power, even at that website, has fallen so low that it's like watching King Chanute trying to hold back the tides with his will alone. But it still stings a little. If Kos had any respect for himself and his website..dfljeioghiorhgiosgiors...oh, sorry about that. I just laughed so hard I had involuntary spasms throughout my entire body. Anyhow, if he did, he'd have another purge and rid himself of some true maniacs.

    I'm not talking about all of the President's supporters, just the ones who are so stubborn (and paid?) that no amount of light can be dawned upon them. I remember when BTD posted his sexism diary over there, several posters were stupidly and unnaturally pig-headed even when shown clear facts. No one is that stupid, they are either a political hack or a paid performer, and neither is something I'd want on my website.

    I'm going to vote for Obama more than likely, but only because the Regressives are greedy, evil, and stupid, and for no other reason. This President has lied like a cheap rug, and broken most of his significant campaign promises. No one is going to deliver on everything, but he hasn't come close on the important issues. Healthcare, a joke of an improvement, but still a slight improvement. But it certainly wasn't worth every penny of his political capital. And no VP Biden (MBNA), it wasn't a big freaking deal. (BTW, do you remember how the entire Netroots hated him before Obama picked him, then suddenly he was the bestest ever? I do.) And two years for Gays in the Military, and you traded those crazy tax cuts for them? Wow, that's so Liberal. You catch my drift I think.

    It's 3:22 here in China, I need to go to bed. I would debate this post, but likely it's gonna get nuked, and perhaps it should be. But feelings sometimes need to be expressed, and I did so. At least it was cathartic pour moi. LOL



    The Orange Place... (5.00 / 0) (#60)
    by shoephone on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:48:17 PM EST
    Cannot go there... Danger, Will Robinson...

    Pretty much every bit of wind went out (5.00 / 3) (#65)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:00:14 PM EST
    of your sails with, "I'm going to vote for Obama more than likely..."

    If you're gonna vote for this brand of greedy, evil and stupid, where is the incentive for that to change?

    And how does that keep it from getting worse?


    A bit of a disconnect... (5.00 / 0) (#108)
    by lentinel on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 05:30:39 PM EST
    I'm going to vote for Obama more than likely...

    This President has lied like a cheap rug, and broken most of his significant campaign promises. No one is going to deliver on everything, but he hasn't come close on the important issues.

    Great endorsement.


    Have you seen "Lost in Translation"? (none / 0) (#53)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:36:32 PM EST
    Query:  wouldn't ABG have a wider audience at DK than here?

    Hee hee...Jackson was good (none / 0) (#59)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:43:00 PM EST
    Much like Bill Murray's character on no sleep, if he had a laptop.

    i understand. (none / 0) (#63)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:57:37 PM EST
    The larger problem they have created is that I want to run screaming from the room at any candidate they attach themselves to. I mean I want to like Elizabeth Warren but the contention that has attached themselves to her candidacy makes me leery.

    Obama's supporters are really detrimental to him. I feel like it's 2004 and I'm trying to reason with some Bushbot.


    Warren walketh upon water. (none / 0) (#66)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:01:59 PM EST
    Scott Brown apologizes for plagiarism.  So cyclical.

    Funny comment. (none / 0) (#99)
    by lilburro on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 04:36:19 PM EST
    My recommendation to you, DON'T read "Confidence Men"!  Or do, it won't make you any less angry though.

    I live in a "purple" state so I will vote Obama.  If I lived somewhere different I would probably think differently (you still won't catch me pulling the lever for Romney though).


    Violence erupts... (none / 0) (#2)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 10:32:26 AM EST
    on Wall this morning, cop ran over a protester with his scooter, victim kicks scooter off his leg, melee ensues.

    ...more cops descend on crowd, (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by shoephone on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 11:39:38 AM EST
    the run over victim gets beaten up while being arrested...

    America. Land of the free.


    I read that he's a lawyer (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Towanda on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 12:17:34 PM EST
    and not a protester, per se, but one of the lawyers acting as observers at OWS.

    New York's not-finest may just have scootered over and beaten up the wrong guy, whom they will see in court. . . .


    And he fell (none / 0) (#50)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:30:21 PM EST
    in front of the cop on the scoooter and cops immediately pulled him from out under it.  It sounds like it was truly an accident, but of course, it won't be spun that way.

    uh, they cleared the people back (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:39:51 PM EST
    before getting to the guy. The cop on the cycle comes off with club in hand sweeping in front. He could have backed off the guy right away, but it looks like he continued forward and then stopped and hopped off to clear people away. He managed to run over the guy with both wheels at a very low speed . . . just sayin' . . .

    Just going by the article posted (none / 0) (#74)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:33:50 PM EST
    I can't watch video at work.

    Here (none / 0) (#75)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:35:27 PM EST
    Police scooters in a V-shaped formation moved toward the protesters in the standoff. One man lost his balance and was run over by a police scooter. He screamed before kicking the scooter over to free his foot, according to The Associated Press. Police descended on the protester and got him out from under the bike, but violence had broken out. Some witnesses told WINS-AM that the man was beaten during the arrest.

    And then (none / 0) (#77)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:38:44 PM EST
    At least one witness - a photographer with the NY Daily News said this:

    Daily News photographer Joe Marino, who witnessed the confrontation, said "the bike definitely hit him" but the officer didn't run him over.

    "I saw him sticking his legs under the bike to make it appear he was run over," Marino said of the lawyer.

    a few times. And the motorbike was going, like, 0.01 mph and the cop was blowing his horn the whole time...

    Daily News is very anti-OWS (none / 0) (#112)
    by Towanda on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 06:10:09 PM EST
    to the point of obviously misstating basic facts, such as whether the park is private or public.

    But since you read it, you know that, and surely took that into account in counting on its coverage of this incident.


    Why? (none / 0) (#123)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Oct 15, 2011 at 12:50:08 AM EST
    I take your word for it, but i thought "Daily News' was pretty left-sympathetic generally.

    Gosh, I dunno why; I just googled (none / 0) (#133)
    by Towanda on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 01:32:31 PM EST
    its editorials to see its stance, and they were not revealing of the psychology of the writers.

    No, look at the video (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by Towanda on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:48:19 PM EST
    that I posted.  The cop parked on the lawyer's leg.

    Sorry.... (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 12:09:31 PM EST
     ...but I just have to laugh at how the cops are looking like they just want to cracks skulls and can't.  I mean seriously, what is up with the cop at the end with the gloves and the baton.  Those special skull thumping gloves ?  

    All the while manning scooters, scooters for christ sake, they might as well be protecting the Hot Topic at the mall on a Segway.

    Right now to me, the only people who are getting rope, are the cops, so some protesters get arrested for disturbing the peace, but one cop does something stupid and he's gonna be front page through the entire country.

    It must be driving them mad.

    And the arrest, that's tame, I got far more.... 'handling' in high school for a couple underage drinking charges.  The cop even put the kids stuff back in his pocket that fell out.

    I just love watching the NYPD on a leash, I only pity the fools who will be privy to their frustrations, who aren't in front of the 1000 cameras.


    The watchers... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 12:29:24 PM EST
    sure do hate being watched, don't they?

    Karma, it's a b*tch.

    Though I'm sure they're having fun, even if it is more restrained than the pre-everybody has a camera days...remember the cop with the twinkle in his eye caught on tape talking about giving his nightstick some excercise...he looked like a kid at Christmas.


    Exactly (none / 0) (#25)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 12:55:09 PM EST
    A kid with a brand new bike and there's 10ft of snow outside.  Just itching to take that bike for a ride, and I know one of them is gonna slip and try and sneak it out when dad's napping only to end up on the ice, chin first, in need of stitches.

    I don't think they are digging it at all, look at them, they are basically mall/traffic cops.  Trying to take their scooters through a crowd, using their scooter horns.  No lights, no sirens, no people tripping over themselves to get out of the way, just 'a bunch of dirty hippies' they can't touch.  

    Not what people inferiority complexes & massive egos signed up for.


    That cop... (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 01:06:52 PM EST
    played with his toy...on that tape the female officer said something like "I haven't got to use mine yet", and the guys says "I have".  They're gettin' some lumps in.

    And it's not like they have anything to worry about besides some negative notoriety...the NYSE Security Force isn't gonna hold any hired muscle accountable for any rough stuff.


    See this video (5.00 / 0) (#36)
    by Towanda on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 01:43:26 PM EST
    and note that the cop did not just roll over the lawyer's leg; the cop parked on the guy, then left him screaming thereit.  And that's no "scooter," as it is termed in news stories.  

    See more, as ever, at the Nation's OccupyUSA blog, with lots of breaking info today.

    I'm with the response to Bloomberg (and his girlfriend, on the park board) saying that the park needed to be cleaned up:

    Clean up Wall Street first.


    Wow. That sh*t is f*cked up. (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:07:58 PM EST
    The guy is a legal observer (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:09:10 PM EST
    for the National Lawyers Guild.  And get this, they also arrested him......I'm assuming in order to attempt some damage control because they had to take him to the hospital and only a rumor now....but the rumor is they broke his leg.

    I've watched the vid now a bunch of times. (none / 0) (#45)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:16:38 PM EST
    I really wish the vid showed how the guy ended up under the vehicle.

    I'll wait to see how injured he is, (none / 0) (#51)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:32:52 PM EST
    I'm starting to feel a nagging scepticism about the whole incident...

    If he took a dive, someone should file an ethics (none / 0) (#115)
    by jpe on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 06:39:48 PM EST

    Wondering what preceded this video? (none / 0) (#46)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:17:58 PM EST
    Why were police riding these m/cs through this dense crowd?  

    Because they ran out of horses? (none / 0) (#52)
    by shoephone on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:35:31 PM EST
    Crowd control measures are in full effect.

    ;Usually that involves the perimeter. (none / 0) (#54)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:37:23 PM EST
    Gees...just walks away from the bike sitting (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:39:52 PM EST
    right on the screaming guy. Even if it was an accident at first, that was not.

    To me, it looks like the law enforcement (none / 0) (#64)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:59:33 PM EST
    officers are unsure what the civilians will do next.  Officers may be worried about their own safety.  Which, of course, doesn't justify leaving the cycle on the man's leg.  

    Perhaps it wasn't "on" his leg (none / 0) (#67)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:02:48 PM EST
    maybe he shoved his leg right up to the tire and commenced to screaming hysterically. I'm starting to think this man has watched too much professional soccer...

    You sceptic. He could also be an (none / 0) (#68)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:04:38 PM EST
    NBA fan.  Or "hit by a pitch."

    Ha. Or an NFL punter... (none / 0) (#72)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:14:24 PM EST
    That was some Buuuull$hit (none / 0) (#35)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 01:41:50 PM EST
    That is on my facebook now too.  That one is going to make some people's heads explode and go to a protest.

    I Could Not Agree More (none / 0) (#79)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:47:38 PM EST
    You can also make out a billy club being swung down, but you can't tell where it ended up.

    Who in the F do these cops think they are, that could not have been more deliberate and there must have been 20 people with cameras.  

    Makes me wonder what would be going down if this were pre-electronic revolution, days.


    Exactly (none / 0) (#92)
    by sj on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 04:17:28 PM EST
    Makes me wonder what would be going down if this were pre-electronic revolution, days.

    Actually probably nothing.  Hard to reach a certain threshhold of participants when you don't even know it's going on.  Both because you don't know what's going on so you can't join in, and because police pushback would have been brutally effective.

    I just watched the video at 3:47 CST (none / 0) (#82)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:51:30 PM EST
    and I didn't see anybody get run over, or beat up.

    Anybody got a time on the video when this happens?


    Extropolation required. (none / 0) (#84)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:54:29 PM EST
    So you agree it didn't happen? (none / 0) (#87)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:58:55 PM EST
    I am rather unconvinced by incomplete (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 04:00:57 PM EST
    video of any given event.  What happened b/4 the camera started filming?  Is the video shown the only/best record of the event?  

    Daily News photographer Joe Marino (none / 0) (#89)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 04:06:00 PM EST
    Daily News photographer Joe Marino, who witnessed the confrontation, said "the bike definitely hit him" but the officer didn't run him over.

    "I saw him sticking his legs under the bike to make it appear he was run over," Marino said of the lawyer.

    Dam lawyers.

    m/c chaser! (none / 0) (#90)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 04:07:22 PM EST
    Maybe the lawyer ran into the path (none / 0) (#91)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 04:09:00 PM EST
    of the m/c.  See Amtrak and LA mass transit.  

    Does the news photographer . . . (none / 0) (#96)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 04:29:15 PM EST
    have any photos of this?  :)

    We shall see! (none / 0) (#101)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 04:41:48 PM EST
    More video (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 06:08:59 PM EST

    Looks to me like the bike was going about 0.01 mph and dude possibly got nudged by the bike.

    Thereafter he decided he'd go for an Academy Award by screaming like a stuck pig and flailing around on the ground.

    He apparently had enough presence of mind, despite his apparent anguish, to keep both his feet right in front of the front wheel of the bike during this flailing.

    It does look like the bike rolled forward a few feet at this time, whether the front tire rolled over one, or both, or neither, of his feet is unclear.

    After the bike rolls foward, while still screaming and flailing, dude sticks both his feet in front of the back tire.

    The bike then fell over, away from him. Could not see what caused it to fall.

    And the Oscar goes to...legal observer Ari Douglas!


    Still can't see enough (none / 0) (#113)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 06:26:12 PM EST
    man steps in front of shot at crucial moment and also can't see what's happening on the right side behind the crowd. In the other video, the cops were coming in from that side. I think the cops knocked the bike over when they tried to get it off him (judging by the other video). He very well could have gotten his legs caught under the bike when he rolled on his back in what looks like an attempt to get up.

    The view we need is one facing the front of the bikes :)


    Maybe so, but for me, (none / 0) (#114)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 06:36:00 PM EST
    it's looking more and more like he took a dive.

    Looking forward seeing if anyone else caught this on videw!


    Oils well that ends well. (none / 0) (#4)
    by KeysDan on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 10:41:20 AM EST
    The Obama Administration announced that BP would be allowed to bid on new oil leases in the Gulf of Mexico. Just a day before that decision, the Department of Interior cited BP and its two principal contractors for numerous safety and environmental violations related to the Deepwater Horizon blow. The citation is based on the Coast Guard and Interior's investigation.

    Michael Bromwich, head of the new Bureau of Safety and Environmental Enforcement, told a House committee that his agency "thought about this issue quite a lot" before letting BP participate in the first auction of offshore leases since the blow that killed 11 workers, spilled millions of barrels of oil, and caused environmental damage.  

    In addition to the Interior Department citation, penalties have not yet been obtained under the Clean Water Act, and the DOJ has not made a decision on whether any criminal charges will be filed against BP, Transocean and Haliburton.

    Raymond Dempsey Jr. a vp of BP America, said, "We believe that we have the necessary systems and capabilities in place to continue to enhance the safety of deepwater drilling."   Sounds good to me, besides we need to look forward not backward.

    On a positive note.... (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 11:48:33 AM EST
    We may not being do so well on the liberty and justice for all front, but we still make some kick-arse rock-n-roll in this country.

    A perfect example is The Tedeschi Trucks band, kickin' it live at the Tilles Center @ CW Post tonight.  The first couple of rock, Susan Tedeschi with the killer pipes, and Derek Trucks with the killer licks...gonna blow the roof off, guaranteed.

    This one track especiallyjust blows me away...it's my unofficial theme song for the growing protest movement.  I give you "Bound for Glory".

    Tell your story
    Roll the truth around your head
    Bound for glory
    I ain't getting out of this bed
    The sun comes struggling on
    Yesterday's dead and gone...

    Can you feel it?
    Bound for glory!
    Can you feel it?
    Glory bound!
    Can you feel it?
    Bound for glory!

    Sometimes (none / 0) (#21)
    by lentinel on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 12:46:26 PM EST
    I feel that music is being written to misdirect rather than strengthen protest movements.

    I sometimes feel that people feel that it is enough for them to participate in a mass event and let it go at that.

    I definitely felt that way about folk music being identified with the peace movement of the '60s. It felt passive to me. It still does.

    This is not meant as a commentary on any particular type of music.
    Every type of music is valid imo.

    But I sometimes wish that  Jazz would be the music of choice for people identifying with protest - and freedom.

    It seems to have been totally marginalized.

    But, kdog, if we are bound for glory, I hope it is the glory of overturning this corrupt system that is bedeviling us.
    Glory Hallelujah!


    For the record... (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 01:09:17 PM EST
    the tune was written well before any of this started, I just adopted it:)

    That's exactly the kinda glory I'm rooting for too!  And occupying part time for, plan to be back for another solidarity visit tomorrow.  


    Jazz is great... (none / 0) (#33)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 01:38:11 PM EST
    for a revolution in your own mind, to provoke thought...but as a soundtrack for protest in groups you really need something everybody can sing along too, without having to really know how to sing:)

    Well, (none / 0) (#105)
    by lentinel on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 05:22:09 PM EST
    to paraphrase Malcolm X, it's time to stop singing and start swinging.

    Slide Guitar (none / 0) (#34)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 01:41:18 PM EST
    Hands down, my favorite instrument style.

    And the slide guitar that is on a table, can't remember what it's called, but I love both.


    Steel Lap Guitar... (none / 0) (#38)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:07:48 PM EST
    Derek Trucks, I have become convinced, is the best guitar player of my generation.  The guy is phenomenal.

    Checked the tour dates, nothing in Houston booked yet.  Keep your eyes peeled for 2012.


    SF on New Years Eve. (none / 0) (#43)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:13:59 PM EST
    Sounds like the perfect getaway... (none / 0) (#44)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:14:57 PM EST
    for Mr & Mrs Sarc...lock up a sitter early!

    Was in the Allman Brothers for a Bit (none / 0) (#83)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:52:09 PM EST
    Duane Allman on the slide is like butter.

    Duane is the gold standard... (none / 0) (#104)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 04:57:44 PM EST
    of slide, to be sure.

    You'll appreciate this track...Mick w/ Ry Cooder on slide..."Memo From Turner".
    That slide riff gives me chills, though youtube sound doesn't do it proper justice, it should be cranked to 11.  Cool lyrics too.

    Weren't you at the Coke convention back on nineteen sixty-five
    You're the misbred, grey executive I've seen heavily advertised.
    You're the great, gray man whose daughter licks policemen's buttons clean.
    You're the man who squats behind the man who works the soft machine.

    Magic Bus should be here any minute, god save the designated driver for their noble sacrifice:)

    Rock out y'all wherever you are, and smoke 'em if ya got 'em!


    I Can't for the Life of Me Remeber Who (none / 0) (#85)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:57:06 PM EST
     ...use to or still plays that Steel Lap Guitar, I keep thinking Gilmour, or maybe someone from The Band.  But I saw it on TV maybe a year back and it was magical.

    Ry Cooder? (none / 0) (#97)
    by shoephone on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 04:33:26 PM EST
    or David Lindley? (none / 0) (#98)
    by shoephone on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 04:34:14 PM EST
    I just convinced myself (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by shoephone on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 04:37:27 PM EST
    it's Lindley. Man, I saw him and Jackson Browne together at a tribute concert in 1984 and he really blew me away. Of course, Ry Cooder played that night too. And John Hiatt. And Richard Thompson. And Elvis Costello (who behaved like such a creep afterwards no one wanted to go near him. Hey, it happens!)

    I first saw David Lindley (none / 0) (#107)
    by sj on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 05:28:57 PM EST
    playing with Terry Reid -- the musician who recommended Robert Plant to Jimmy Page.  Not too much of a song writer, but a seriously, serious musician with a voice that could make you cry.  Magic.  Really, pure magic that combination.

    BTW (none / 0) (#110)
    by sj on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 05:51:15 PM EST
    Were able to tolerate more Dancing with the Stars?  I read your comment about your feelings w/r/t the level of dance, but frankly this is the most enjoyable season in a long time.

    Thanks almost entirely to Carson Kressley.

    And it is always amazing to see what Derek Hough choreographs.  Really?  A tango to the theme from "Psycho"?  But his command of dance along with his really spectacular command of his celebrity partner is guaranteed to boggle the mind.


    I only watched one more episode (none / 0) (#120)
    by shoephone on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 11:30:11 PM EST
    and... I guess I just find the show kinda boring. I love watching really great dancing! I understand why a lot of people like DWTS though, so to each his (and her) own.

    For great dancing (none / 0) (#121)
    by sj on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 11:39:49 PM EST
    I like to watch "So You Think You Can Dance".  It's been pretty heavy on Contemporary style the last couple of years, but the style has grown on me.

    DWTS is what I watch while I wait for next summer and SYTYCD.  I can totally see why it's not everyone's cup of tea.  


    What station is that other show on? (none / 0) (#122)
    by shoephone on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 11:43:52 PM EST
    FOX (none / 0) (#130)
    by sj on Sat Oct 15, 2011 at 03:53:28 PM EST
    What can I say?

    Charles Pierce on Palin and Cain (none / 0) (#15)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 12:14:54 PM EST
    An interesting take on it. So glad to have him writing on politics regularly.

    At the same time, he [Cain] is running a "campaign" not entirely dissimilar to the various grifting scams that Palin has visited upon the nation. Except, of course, that Cain actually has declared a candidacy and is out there actually appearing to run for president. He is out there selling himself as a political celebrity no less than Palin does. She created the mold. Herman Cain is what it produced.

    It's pretty funny to me that at this point (none / 0) (#32)
    by tigercourse on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 01:26:05 PM EST
    Sarah Palin actually seems like she'd be a better President then most of the Republican front runners.

    San Diego police chief directs (none / 0) (#23)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 12:52:38 PM EST
    officers at site of local OWS:  LAT

    Culture report: Enjoyed hearing (none / 0) (#80)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:49:25 PM EST
    Gergiev/Mariinsky enliven Tschaikovsky.  Promptly bought a ticket for second concert.  Who knew the Pathetique could sound fresh, intriguing, exciting?  Also enjoyed Terra Cotta Warriors redux at Bowers Museum.  

    Query: should Congress/Admins. (none / 0) (#93)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 04:18:40 PM EST
    figure out b/4 passing/signing legislation if sd. legislation is viable?  LAT re Obama admins. says CLASS not viable

    why are we doing this? (none / 0) (#102)
    by loveed on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 04:49:00 PM EST
    Huntsman (none / 0) (#118)
    by CoralGables on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 08:19:31 PM EST
    needs New Hampshire. But will he last through October?

    According to CNN, "The Huntsman campaign....finished the third fundraising quarter in September with just $327,000 in the bank and $890,000 in debt".