Wednesday Night Open Thread

There's lots of TV on tonight -- Survivor, Harry's Law, the X Factor (The X Factor is postponed so Fox can air a delayed baseball game) and America's Next Top Model, to name a few. The second episode of Showtime's Homeland was better than the first, it could be a good show.

For those of you with other things on your mind, here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    The only thing I watched on your list (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:30:53 PM EST
    above was Homeland and I agree with you.  After watching the first one, for some reason it left a bad taste.  I was uninterested then.  But it was on the record list and got recorded on Sunday.  Last night when I woke up at about 3 am there was nothing to watch so I hit play on the second episode of Homeland and was very surprised.  I want to watch it now.

    A new 'The Middle' is on tonight.  We were busy so didn't watch it...recorded it.  Will probably watch it as a family before bed.  Last week's was hysterical, the mom Frankie came home from work starving and ate the crumbs out of a chip bag that was laying on the couch.  Then she discovered that the oldest child had clipped his toenails and threw them in the bag with the last of the chip crumbs.  She decided she had had enough of her life and she ran away from home.  First she was driving and singing to herself with the radio, then she was driving, singing, crying, and drinking liquor out of a brown paper bag.  The whole house here cracked up and I was informed that they think I may have many things in common with this 'Middle' mom.  All I know is that every single one of them in this house is capable of clipping their toenails and putting the clippings in a chip bag when starving people are around.

    I can't/won't watch anything with... (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:59:15 PM EST
    ...that Patrica Heaton after seeing her in the anti-stem cell ad in '06.    

    Plus, she's an Ohio State grad, so there's that too.


    iirc, wasn't she over the top on the (none / 0) (#20)
    by nycstray on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 10:15:53 PM EST
    Terry Schavio (sp?!) issue?

    Heaton is part of that feminists (5.00 / 0) (#27)
    by caseyOR on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 10:39:56 PM EST
    against choice group of people. I do not see how someone opposed to women having power over their own reproductive choices can possibly be a feminist.

    I won't watch her (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by shoephone on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 11:56:44 PM EST
    She was a huge GWB supporter and very much in favor of the illegal invasion and war with Iraq.
    Detestable, IMO.

    I suppose a person could be (none / 0) (#29)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 11:00:05 PM EST
    opposed to abortion but be a feminist as to other issues.  

    A person could be opposed to (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by caseyOR on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 12:21:12 AM EST
    abortion and, at the same time, supportive of other issues (equal pay, family leave), but a person who does not believe that a woman should be the one to control her own body is not a feminist. To my mind, believing that a woman is the only person who decides matters related to her own body is the most basic tenet of feminism. If you don't have power over your own self, you don't have power.

    Your recall is correct. n/t (none / 0) (#23)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 10:25:13 PM EST
    I liked Homeland enough (none / 0) (#10)
    by Towanda on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:44:14 PM EST
    the first night and really liked the second one.  It's got pretty good casting, very tight editing.

    I have always liked Mandy Patinkin (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by Amiss on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 11:56:55 PM EST
    but anyone using him these days is really taking a risk. I hate that.

    He is excellent in Homeland (none / 0) (#54)
    by Towanda on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 12:20:57 PM EST
    as I never have seen him before, and I am enjoying that aspect of the casting immensely.  I also always like him, but I have seen him go over the top and overwhelm others around him.  Seeing his ability to be understated is a revelation; he is much more powerful this way.

    Claire Danes is very good (none / 0) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:48:30 PM EST
    I probably shouldn't be shocked after Temple Grandin.  Agree about the casting, very good all the way around and yet we have certain faces in surprising places.

    Hahahaha... (none / 0) (#12)
    by lilburro on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:03:30 PM EST
    yeah "The Middle" is pretty funny.  My mom likes that show.  "Homeland" makes me want to get Showtime but I'll have to wait for the DVDs.  I'm sure I'll have premium channels this winter though, if only so I can catch "Luck," David Milch's new show...

    Tim Allen's new show is kind of like "The Middle."  It was on last night and I did laugh a few times...but Tim Allen's character is really, weirdly reactionary...he not only made anti-Muslim and homophobic jokes, but he also managed to pull off an anti-immigration zinger.  I was thinking the whole time "is this really happening on my TV?"  It could be a decent show if they lost those elements or did something dramatically that made either his character or the other characters acknowledge what an @ss he is.  

    As it is he just reminds me of certain relatives from incredibly awkward Thanksgivings past...shudder...


    Good to know. I just got done (none / 0) (#16)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:44:43 PM EST
    watching the first one, and was kind of 'meh'. Just seemed kind of average TV drama.  I'll stick with it.

    Ancient Aliens on tonight (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by brodie on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:19:35 PM EST
    on THC.  Something about "Aliens and Deadly Cults.  My kinda entertainment for a Wednesday night.

    And elsewhere in TV news, looks like Current TV is picking up the pace:  ex gov Jennifer Granholm (aka The Woman Who Got Away) signed to host a political chat show following Countdown with Keith.  9 pm est/6 pm Pacific starting in January.

    Current also is bringing in Cinq Uygur to host a show before Keith starting next month.

    Very good news on the liberal penetration of tv front.  Almost too good -- and I wonder whether my right-leaning cable co will respond by yanking Current from its lineup or putting it in a pricier cable package tier.

    Ah, the joys of Ancient Aliens (none / 0) (#22)
    by MKS on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 10:24:29 PM EST
    Great series on the History Channel....

    Why Panama? (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 08:29:33 AM EST
    WASHINGTON - Congress -- if you listen to pundits and Washington politicians -- is completely broken. But when multinational corporate interests are at stake, suddenly the institution figures out how to get to work. On Wednesday, both chambers passed three sweeping trade agreements with bipartisan majorities, against the opposition of labor unions worried about job losses that would result.
    "A tax haven . . . has one of three characteristics: It has no income tax or a very low-rate income tax; it has bank secrecy laws; and it has a history of noncooperation with other countries on exchanging information about tax matters," said Rebecca Wilkins, senior counsel with Citizens for Tax Justice, a nonpartisan nonprofit dedicated to improving U.S. tax policy. "Panama has all three of those. ... They're probably the worst."

    The trade agreement with Panama would effectively bar the U.S. from cracking down on this activity. The U.S. would not be allowed to treat Panamanian financial services transactions differently from transactions in nations that are not tax havens. It would also be unable to pursue some standard anti-money laundering techniques in Panama. Combating tax haven abuse in Panama would be a violation of the trade agreement, exposing the U.S. to fines from international authorities. link

    Obama talks about job creation in the U.S. but passes legislation that benefits the 1%.

    U.S. jobs to go to North Korea (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 08:40:59 AM EST
    But when multinational corporate interests are at stake, suddenly Congress figures out how to get to work.

    The Korea FTA is the biggest "free trade" deal since NAFTA. Even government studies show it will increase our trade deficit and it's projected to cost 159,000 U.S. jobs just in its first seven years. Hardest hit would be "jobs of the future" sectors, such as solar, high-speed trains and computer-related manufacturing. link

    S. Korea

    In 2004, Hyundai inked one of the best land deals in history. For a mere $12 million, the South Korean conglomerate secured the rights to 50 years of use on over 41,000 square miles of industrial space -- $292 per square mile, only about 10 percent higher than the rate the U.S. paid France under the Louisiana Purchase.
    The land Hyundai leased was located in North Korea...Over 47,000 North Korean laborers are currently performing work for over 120 South Korean firms doing business in the area.
    ...But working standards are nevertheless horrifying. Workers officially make a minimum wage of $60.78 per month -- 35 cents an hour based on a 40-hour work schedule -- but South Korean companies have almost no oversight capacity, according to the CRS. Laborers are hired, disciplined and fired by the North Korean government, and the wages are kept low via intense citizen repression. link

    Obama talks about job creation here at home but this is what he works for behind the scenes and pushes through a very willing Congress.  

    Republican Who Sponsored Bill (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 08:46:02 AM EST
     ...that allowed handgun permit owners to take their guns in bars gets a DUI and has loaded gun on person.  

    He was drunk enough that he could hardly stand.  Yet argued in the past of the responsibility of gun owners.  Apparently you can take a gun in a bar so long as you don't drink In Tennessee.

    Check Out the Mug Shot

    How many states allow loaded weapons is bars ?  Even here in Texas that is a hug no/no.

    What a sideshow (none / 0) (#40)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 08:56:24 AM EST
    When the NYPD isn't busy... (5.00 / 0) (#43)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 09:50:22 AM EST
    acting as a private security force for the 1%, they're framing the 99% to drum up drug arrests to meet the quotas that officially do not exist.

    Took the framing of two poor slobs caught on videotape to blow the lid on this blooming scandal.

    In related news, the spirit of OWS is spreading to arenas other than economics...a group of youth protesting the patently unconstitutional NYPD Stop & Frisk program marched yesterday.  Just as important to put a stop to this dirty stop & frisk bullsh*t as it is to put a stop to institutionalized grift, if not more so.  There will always be poor folks I'm afraid, the least we can do is grant them the same rights to be secure in their persons as the rich folks.

    Just finished last page of Michael (none / 0) (#1)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:36:19 PM EST
    Ondaatje's "Cat's Table," a wonderful new novel.

    Listening to MLB playoffs.

    Tomorrow--hooray--Gergiev/Mariinsky/Tchaikovsky in Costa Mesa. And maybe exhibit of Chinese stuff at the Bowers Museum.  

    Thanks for the recommendation (none / 0) (#5)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:09:32 PM EST
    I've got one for you - Martin Amis' 'London Fields'. I'm listening to the audiobook - can't remember if you are into audiobooks, but this is another one where the reader is so great I almost can't tell if it would be as good reading it on paper.I'm beginning to realize what an art form reading aloud is.

    That said, I do think it would be a good read...the writing is so sharp and funny. I think you would enjoy.


    Reading a book aloud (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by sj on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 02:38:17 AM EST
    really is an art form.  I've mentioned the book on tape by a student who participated in the events in Tiananmen Square.  It was something like 18 cassettes and was read in pretty much in a monotone.  That I listened to the entire thing was a testament to how gripping his story was.

    That was followed by a Star Trek novel read by Mark Lenard (who played Sarek, Spock's father).  Now that was the polar opposite.  Lenard did an amazing job.  It had the computer blip sounds in the background and the hum of the Enterprise was always present.  In my car, it was like driving around in a starship.


    Thanks. I always have an audio (none / 0) (#7)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:23:33 PM EST
    book going in my car.  

    Me too - I'm about 2/3 thru (none / 0) (#14)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:34:38 PM EST
    this one and am at the point of driving the long way to keep it going. I can't concentrate as well just listening in the house - unless I'm cleaning with the headphones on! Ah, the drawbacks of good audiobooks.

    I am about to cue up Richard III; (none / 0) (#18)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 10:11:27 PM EST
    need to get Shakespeare's language into my brain b/4 seeing the play in a couple weeks.  

    Neat (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 10:15:10 PM EST
    I watched the recent film of The Tempest with Helen Mirren over the rainy weekend. Nothing like stretching the old brain now and then.

    I'd like to see that film. (none / 0) (#21)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 10:24:18 PM EST
    Definitely worth your while! (none / 0) (#25)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 10:32:35 PM EST
    Taymor's visuals are always stunning, and it was interesting to have such strong images with the language. Kind of an overload in some ways. I loved the gender change in having Prospera, a mother instead of a father to Miranda. That change in perspective was interesting, and her performance was terrific. Also loved Ben Wishaw's Ariel.

    FYI: NYC Nov. 28-Dec. 4. (none / 0) (#24)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 10:28:42 PM EST
    Sched. is filling up.  No roommate yet.  Interested?

    No can do - company Christmas party (none / 0) (#26)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 10:33:49 PM EST
    that weekend. Small company - attendance nearly mandatory!

    Covington, Kentucky city commissioner Steve Frank (none / 0) (#2)
    by Edger on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:58:25 PM EST
    has decided (and stated publicly) that he admired the Taliban and wants to "go Taliban" on Occupy protesters.


    "Turn out the lights on the Occupiers, I feel like going Taliban on them!!!" he wrote in a Facebook post.

    When asked to explain his comments, Frank further elaborated his harsh sentiments.

    Frank elaborated: "The Taliban, as they see it is resisting occupation. I am resisting the Occupiers and very proud to be a 1%'er.

    Way to gotv there stevie...

    Does he know what the income cut-off for the (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by observed on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 10:50:35 PM EST
    top 1% is? Unless he is taking bribes, I can't believe he is even in the top 5%.

    That's the Heart of the Problem (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 08:34:51 AM EST
    95% of republican party thinks they are, or will be, a 1%.  

    They just don't get it.  I would bet a lot of money Steve Frank isn't worth what he was 5 years ago due entirely to WS.

    I would love for Steve to go all Taliban(vocally), and really stir the pot; get the press circus in full insanity mode.

    I do not want Steve to hurt anyone.


    Well (none / 0) (#35)
    by Edger on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 07:09:27 AM EST
    he's obviously not very bright

    Bill Clinton (none / 0) (#3)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:03:30 PM EST
    on Letterman tonight.

    Or (none / 0) (#4)
    by Edger on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:09:08 PM EST
    the other way around? ;-)

    Apples iOS5 update is out, servers slammed (none / 0) (#6)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:16:06 PM EST
    My phone is updating...very slowly.....

    Hey (hey) you (you) get offa my iCloud!

    so we have (none / 0) (#8)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:25:46 PM EST
    to update our iphones, ipods and ipads? I'll wait a few days, that will take hours.  

    It looks like it might be done by morning! (none / 0) (#15)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:43:24 PM EST
    I always update on the first day and I've never had an update take anywhere near this long. Must be a popular one.

    seems better now J (none / 0) (#44)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 10:27:24 AM EST
    I did the phone and iPad this morning with no problem.

    The new notifications are nice...have not tried other new things yet.

    the iCloud server is slammed with new setups though, so have not been able to sign in.


    What Clinton said (none / 0) (#34)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 07:03:10 AM EST
    The missing part of your subject line is: (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 09:01:42 AM EST
    "...shows that he really just doesn't get it."

    In fact, "what Clinton said" is dangerously close to being utterly clueless.  

    But, then, I wouldn't expect otherwise from someone on whose watch there was massive deregulation of Wall Street and the banks, which is largely responsible for why we are where we are.  

    I notice Clinton, with a perfect opportunity to do so, couldn't manage to accept any responsibility, or make even a token effort to apologize for his, and his economic team's, role.  

    OWS should rally around Obama's jobs bill?  Really?  

    I have less and less respect for Bill Clinton every day - and it can't go much lower.


    Obama doesn't need any help (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 09:38:22 AM EST
    in passing his "jobs" program. His "jobs" program is moving through Congress at a good pace. It is not the "jobs" bill that he talks about on the campaign trail. It is not a "job" bill that includes funds for infrastructure or any other element that creates good paying jobs here at home. It is the "jobs" bill that benefits the multinational corporate interests at the expense of the average person.

    The first element of Obama's real "jobs" bill that Obama strongly promoted which offshores more jobs has just passed Congress. The other elements are yet to come. They will include:

    --Provide companies with free labor under the guise of training.

    --Reduce regulations to streamlined approval process that prevents delays over environmental reviews or other permits

    --Reduce regulations and providing incentives for private firms and start-ups to go public. The council said tightened regulations in the aftermath of the speculative bubble in Internet firms in the late 1990s have created unintended consequences, causing a drop in the number of initial public offerings.

    --Eliminate capital gains taxes on investments of $25 million or less in a privately held company so long as that investment is held for at least five years.

    --Ease immigration rules for high-skilled foreigners, including automatic work permits or provisional visas to all foreign students after they earn science, technology, engineering or math degrees from U.S. colleges or universities.  


    Well, now wouldn't be a very good time (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 10:41:30 AM EST
    to be honest about what's in any of the legislation, would it?  

    I mean, if more people actually knew "the rest of the story" than is being told to them by politicians, or read to them on the nightly news by compliant corporate lackeys, that might slow down - way down - the production of those proverbial and all-important golden eggs the 1%-ers need the financial and corporate sectors to keep producing, and which they really, really don't want to share with the 99%.

    And if anyone here believes Bill Clinton doesn't know "the rest of the story," I have a couple of bridges I'd like to sell.


    disappointing (none / 0) (#46)
    by sj on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 10:42:37 AM EST
    Really disappointing.  My respect has also been greatly diminished over the last several years.  Unlike you, "on balance" I thought we, as a nation, benefitted from his Presidency.  Even though NAFTA put a lead weight on the "con" side of the assessment.

    But apparently he still has the world view that promoted NAFTA and deregulation.  Which is mind boggling, because I don't think the 99% is largely invisible to him.


    NAFTA, Glass-Steagal... (none / 0) (#47)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 10:46:49 AM EST
    and most of all the unprecedented amp-up of the war on mj with his pal Barry McCaffery...the dude was Obama with cheap gas and the internet boom to blind us to his dirty deeds.

    The only nice thing I can say about the Clinton years, with the benefit of hindsight, is that he charged a higher vig for his protection racket services.  He was a sharper gangster, but a gangster all the same.


    I just want to say one thing (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by sj on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 11:07:51 AM EST
    about Clinton.  I've mentioned before that I attended a campaign rally of his.  At the conclusion of this rally he waded into crowd shaking hands and meeting people eye-to-eye.  The SS was in frantic communication as they tried to steer him back to the secured sections.

    However, while he was still "in the wild" he came within about 5 feet of me (which translates to about 2 or 3 people) and his personal charisma or aura or whatever it is that you want to call it was absolutely electrifying.  It packed a huge punch.  Huge.  Staggering, even.  Literally.  It felt like I was supercharged.  His energy was no doubt enhanced exponentially by the campaign stop energy, but trust me: it was not the crowd that packed that wallop.  It was the man himself.  When he was out of range I was kind of left wondering what happened.

    I tell you this so that you can understand that as critical as I am of many of his policies and the results thereof, he will always benefit from a sort of "soft focus" filter when I view the man himself.

    Bottom line, I guess, is that I rather agree with what you're saying while I can't help feeling you're being unduly harsh.  :)

    Really, I don't think I can help it.  So for me to be this deeply disappointed and disheartened by what I'm him hearing promote should say .... I don't know, something.


    It's a common trait... (none / 0) (#50)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 11:19:27 AM EST
    of a hall of fame con-man...a personal aura and likeability that hypnotizes, a million dollar smile that blinds you to the con.  The aura wears off and you find your wallet emptied, and the con-man skipped town.

    I get that, I do. (none / 0) (#52)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 11:25:41 AM EST
    When Clinton was running in '92, I read that he would be making an appearance at a community college in Montgomery County - not all that close to me, but do-able.  My kids were then 9 and almost-6, it was summer, and I was off from work.  I packed them in the car and drove down there.  It was an outdoor event, held in a concrete amphitheater of sorts, and I remember having to climb over a fence - and hoist the kids over it, as well - to get to where there was seating.

    I was jazzed just to be there, and he created an energy I don't ever remember feeling before, even though I wasn't all that close to him.  He worked the crowd afterwards, but with two kids, I wasn't able to safely make my way as close as you did when you saw him.  

    It was a great experience.

    It truly saddens me when I realize how much promise politicians get people to invest in, and how easily that promise is broken.


    It really is such a waste, you know? (none / 0) (#53)
    by sj on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 11:55:29 AM EST
    Seduced (none / 0) (#55)
    by Rojas on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 07:59:17 AM EST
    And I don't mean that as an insult, its simply an observation. I watched many people whom I'd had respect for over the years reverse their positions on everything from civil rights to predatory lending at the behest of BC. The man is an incredible salesman.  

    No offense taken (none / 0) (#56)
    by sj on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 09:30:47 AM EST
    I understand completely and you're quite right.  Take the fact that he can discuss complex subjects with such facility and then throw in that undefinable "something else" that he has and he really can sell anything.  So if he believes the "right" stuff, it's an incredible power for good.  When what he believes is at odds with what I believe, it's an incredible weapon.

    I know I have these "soft focus" lenses and even so, I haven't been able to shake them.


    I think part of his charm (none / 0) (#57)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 02:39:25 PM EST
    and his success (and Hillary seems to have this too), is that they actually listen to people when they are talking to them.  Now, that may last as long as the conversation, but unlike most politicians who smile and are always looking over your shoulder for the next more important person to talk to, they both actually look at you while you talk, ask questions to get more information, and engage you in conversation - even if just for a minute. It makes them at least look like they take your issue seriously - even if they don't.

    It's a lost art.


    Just saw a headline stating Bill Clinton (none / 0) (#58)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:03:43 PM EST
    says golf is the perfect exercise for all!

    I expect you're right (none / 0) (#59)
    by sj on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 05:58:59 PM EST
    They were blessed in so many ways.

    It's true that there were (none / 0) (#48)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 11:07:13 AM EST
    a lot of people who benefited during the Clinton years, but I am more and more coming to ask myself whether the price we seem to be paying for it now was worth it.  Or how real it was.  Clearly, the foundation on which that prosperity was built was more of an illusion than anything else, and when illusions go "poof," so does a lot of other stuff.

    Let me tell you, the image of Larry Summers coaching Tim Geithner, and everyone else on the Obama economic team who had to sit for confirmation hearings, that they should not, under any circumstances, admit that the deregulation that occurred under Clinton was a mistake, made me throw up a little.

    Clinton couldn't tell David Letterman - or anyone else in the media - that the financial sector needs to be strictly and forcefully regulated, if we are to have even a chance at getting things fixed, because that leads to, "correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't your administration deeply involved in the deregulation in the first place?"  And that's not a place Clinton wants to go.

    No, he'd rather garble the OWS message, take them to task for not being clear enough in what they want, opine that they are going to have to choose a political side soon if they want to be effective, and meanwhile, they should really be supporting the American Jobs Act.

    Ugh.  Just...ugh.