Joran Van der Sloot Sues Peruvian Attorney For Misrepresentation at Confession

Joran Van der Sloot has filed a lawsuit against the mysterious Peruvian lawyer who represented him during his murder confession to Peruvian police.

Maximo Altez told The Associated Press he filed suit Friday charging attorney Luz Romero Chinchay with misrepresentation, abuse of authority and conspiracy to commit a crime. Altez said the initial lawyer "pretended to be a public advocate when he is actually a private attorney."

"We have searched the name of Luz Romero Chinchay in the list of public defenders provided by the Ministry of Justice and his name was not on that list. We do not know why the police called this lawyer. We want to know who paid for him because my client did not," Altez said.

Also sued: Col. Miguel Canlla, chief of the police homicide squad, who conducted Joran's interrogation. [More...]

As I noted here and here, the public defender appointed for Van der Sloot was Carla Odrio who said she told police Joran would not be making a statement. The next day, Joran is brought to Drinchi (police headquarters), Chinchay is there instead of Odrio and advises him to confess.

So who hired Chinchay? The same person who hired the translator? (I thought Chinchay was a female, but perhaps not. According to the confession, the full name is Luz Marina Romero Chinchay, but some media outlets are referring to Chinchay as a male. Here's another Luz Marina Romero (Chitiva not Chinchay) who is female. )

In 2004, Chinchay was a prosecutor.

I also found a list of nominations from 2004 that appears to say Chinchay is among five people nominated for prosecutor.

Listado de Postulantes por Plaza Específica
Secretaría Técnica de Selección y Nombramiento CONSEJO NACIONAL DE LA MAGISTRATURA
Nº Orden Apellidos y Nombres Condicio acute; Distrito Judicial: A NACIONAL (Google translates as "List of Candidates for Specific Plaza, Technical Secretariat for Selection and Appointment NATIONAL COUNCIL OF THE JUDICIARY")

....Nivel/Plaza: 40 FISCALIA PROVINCIAL PENAL Postulantes: 5


Chinchay's position as a prosecutor was terminated in 2005:

S E R E S U E L V E : Art i culo Primero.- Dar por concluido el nombramiento de la doctora Luz Marina Romero Chinchay, como Fiscal Adjunta Provincial Provisional de la Fiscal i a Provincial Mixta de Y un g ay, Distrito Judicial de Ancash... (my emphasis)

The resolution is dated 27 de octubre de 2005.

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    hmmmmmmmmm, (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by cpinva on Mon Jul 05, 2010 at 02:42:52 AM EST
    let's see if i have this right:

    1. mr. van der sloot, per many people, is a cunning murderer, smart enough to leave no trace whatsoever of his involvement with the (presumed) death of natalie holloway, to the point of successfully hiding her body, on a small island, for 5 years now.

    2. this same cunning killer was then sloppy enough to leave sufficient tangible evidence (per the peruvian police) of his complicity in the matter of the death of the most recent young lady. enough so that the peruvian police claim his confession isn't needed to convict him.

    of course, none of the other "evidence" has been revealed to the public, only mr. van der sloot's "confession". presumptively, if their tangible "evidence" were that strong, his attorney would be spending time figuring out how to overcome it, perhaps hiring experts in the field to review it. oddly, not a word of this from the media.

    perhaps mr. van der sloot is a modern day jekyl-hyde? his jekyl self the incompetent, tangible evidence leaving personality; his hyde self the cunning, steely-eyed murderer? or not.

    for myself, the kid doesn't come across as smart enough to commit the "perfect murder" in aruba.

    but hey, that's just my opinion.

    big difference (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by diogenes on Mon Jul 05, 2010 at 03:07:05 PM EST
    There's a big difference between an island in the Caribbean with sandy beaches and oceans where you're backed up by your powerful dad and a hotel room in Peru where you're videotaped and can't make the body disappear.

    The dad were just a lawyer (none / 0) (#65)
    by Untold Story on Mon Jul 05, 2010 at 03:25:01 PM EST
    he was not a political candidate or did he have any ties with the Government of Aruba.  He did not grow up in Aruba.  He had a friend who, heavens, happened to be the chief of police.  And, from there, it all goes crazy.  As if a complete police force, all politicians were going to get themselves involved in a conspiracy to protect some unknown seventeen year old!  Please.

    Aruba is 42 square miles.  Three countries scoured that tiny Island.

    Many people were interrogated - anyone and everyone that mentioned or were thought to have anything to do with the case were hauled in and questioned - some over a period of days (very different than Peru).

    What were they suppose to do - invent a murderer out of beliefs that were made from different fabrics of personal convictions into whole cloth? No matter how hard they tried, a murderer they could not make!

    The real power came with the private planes that evening - and the rest, as they say, is history.


    Exactly, well said! (none / 0) (#57)
    by Untold Story on Mon Jul 05, 2010 at 08:22:07 AM EST
    Wow (none / 0) (#1)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 10:32:59 PM EST
    This story gets murkier and murkier with each installment. Either the police in Lima are a joke, or there is someone else who has money and power driving this whole thing...

    My conspiratorial imagination picks the later...

    squeaky, No joke in Peru.... (none / 0) (#49)
    by railroaded on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:45:26 PM EST
    Either the police in Lima are a joke,

    Corruption, plain and simple, corruption at its worst. Peru is endemically corrupt. It cannot be stated enough how corrupt the Peruvian system is, add to that, more than 53% of Peruvians live in poverty, corruption is inevitable.

    Once you grasp the scale of corruption in Peru, Joran van Der Sloots' lawsuit's have credence.

    Crime Statistics > Courts > % of managers surveyed lacking confidence in courts to uphold property rights (most recent) by country:

    Rank   Countries    Amount    Date    
    # 1    Bangladesh: 82.98 %   2002  
    # 2    Peru: 75.21 %   2006  
    # 3    Paraguay: 74.12 %   2006  
    # 4    Guatemala: 71.3 %   2003  
    # 49    Colombia: 37.76 %   2006  

    Jails  81  [19th of 80]  
    Kidnappings  491 kidnappings  [6th of 39]  
    Murders  1,136  [8th of 49]  
    Murders with firearms  442  [6th of 36]  
    Prisoners  27,417 prisoners  [20th of 168]  
    Prisoners > Female  8.1%  [10th of 134]  
    Prisoners > Per capita  104 per 100,000 people  [88th of 164]  
    Rapes  5,968  [7th of 50]  
    Robberies  34,036  [9th of 47]  
    Software piracy rate  71%  [40th of 107]  
    Total crimes  161,621

    Link to stats here

    there is someone else who has money and power driving this whole thing...

    See here (#36)


    oh, I forgot to.... (none / 0) (#50)
    by railroaded on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:57:22 PM EST
    ...include this little piece;

    Transnational Issues > Trafficking in persons > Current situation

    Peru is primarily a source country for women and children trafficked internally for the purposes of sexual exploitation and forced domestic labor; most victims are girls and young women moved internally from rural to urban areas, or from city to city, and lured or coerced into prostitution in nightclubs, bars, and brothels; Peruvians have also been trafficked for sexual exploitation to Spain, Japan, the United States, and Venezuela (Aruba off the coast); the government acknowledges that sex tourism occurs, particularly in the Amazon region of the country.

    Transnational Issues > Trafficking in persons > Tier rating
    Tier 2 Watch List
    - Peru is placed on the Tier 2 Watch List for failure to show evidence of increasing efforts to eliminate trafficking in 2005. Link Here.


    advice to confess (none / 0) (#2)
    by diogenes on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 10:34:34 PM EST
    Is Van der Sloot alleging that the bogus lawyer advised him to make a FALSE confession or simply that the bogus lawyer advised him to tell the truth?  

    It's never that simple. (none / 0) (#3)
    by observed on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 10:52:47 PM EST
    VDS said that he confessed because he thought that would get him extradited out of Peru.

    isn't it simple, though (none / 0) (#4)
    by diogenes on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 11:32:01 PM EST
    Did he say that he confessed to the truth to get himself extradited or did he really think that falsely confessing to a murder which he did not commit would somehow magically lead to his being extradited to Aruba and not being charged with that murder?

    Mudslinging.............. (none / 0) (#33)
    by railroaded on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 03:10:27 PM EST
    ...he also (supposedly) `said' that he `confessed' under cruel/barbaric conditions and was also (supposedly) coerced into signing a confession.
    Nothing is making sense in this case other than a lot of mud is being slung and nothing credible reported neither by media or Peruvian authorities.

    Aren't many criminal defense attorneys (none / 0) (#5)
    by oculus on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 12:32:44 AM EST
    former prosecutors?

    Maybe (none / 0) (#6)
    by squeaky on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 12:46:18 AM EST
    But that does seem to be the least interesting bit of the story, imo, if in fact it is true.

    Yes (none / 0) (#8)
    by jbindc on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:07:23 AM EST
    The many I know all worked in the prosecutor's office at one time, then left to open their own practices.

    jbindc, yes, maybe, or.... (none / 0) (#54)
    by railroaded on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 10:34:09 PM EST
    ...or open their own 'news show'.

    Nancy Grace, former Special Prosecutor in the Atlanta-Fulton County, Georgia District Attorney's office.

    Prosecutorial misconduct

    The Supreme Court of Georgia has twice commented on Grace's conduct as a prosecutor. First, in a 1994 heroin drug trafficking case, Bell v. State, the Court declared a mistrial, saying that Grace had "exceeded the wide latitude of closing argument" by drawing comparisons to unrelated murder and rape cases.

    In 1997, the court was more severe. Although its unanimous decision overturning the murder-arson conviction of businessman W. W. Carr in the death of his wife was caused primarily by other issues, the court made note of Grace's court actions, citing "inappropriate and illegal conduct in the course of the trial."
    *    Her opening statement in the case promised the jury evidence of physical abuse that she had to know would never be admissible because that entire aspect of the case had already been excluded by the judge.
    *    Subpoenas that contained hearing dates Grace knew to be false.
    *    Failure to disclose a full witness list to the defense in a timely fashion.
    *    Showing a chart during closing arguments that falsely stated a defense expert had not contradicted the state's case on a key issue.
    *    Also, during closing argument, "vouching" for the case by telling the jury she herself believed Carr to be guilty.
    *    And finally, performing two illegal searches of Carr's house, including one during which she was accompanied by a CNN camera crew.
    While the court said its reversal was not due to these transgressions, since the case had turned primarily on circumstantial evidence, it nevertheless concluded "the conduct of the prosecuting attorney in this case demonstrated her disregard of the notions of due process and fairness, and was inexcusable." Carr was freed in 2004 when The Georgia Supreme Court ruled unanimously that Fulton County had waited too long to retry him.

    Other courts have criticized Grace's conduct even while upholding convictions in her cases. In a 2005 opinion, a panel of the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals said Grace "played fast and loose" with her ethical duties and failed to "fulfill her responsibilities" as a prosecutor in the 1990 triple murder trial of Herbert Connell Stephens. She failed to turn evidence over to his defense team that pointed to other suspects. The court noted that it was "difficult to conclude that Grace did not knowingly" elicit false testimony from a police investigator that there were no other suspects despite strong evidence to the contrary.

    What a character!

    Throw in this  other character Greta Van Susteren;

    Van Susteren was born in Appleton, Wisconsin, and is of Dutch, French and German ancestry on her paternal side.

    Van Susteren's sister, Lise, is a forensic psychiatrist in Bethesda, Maryland. In 2006, Lise was a candidate for the Democratic nomination for U.S. Senate. Her brother, Dirk Van Susteren, was a journalist and long-time editor of the Vermont Sunday magazine, jointly published, until folding in 2008, by the Rutland Herald and the Barre-Montpelier-Times Argus.

    Van Susteren's father, Urban Van Susteren, was an elected judge, was a longtime friend of U.S. Sen. Joseph McCarthy, and was campaign strategist for him, although Urban later broke with him.

    Van Susteren is married to John P. Coale. They are both Scientologists. Coale serves as an adviser for Sarah Palin.

    Then we have George 'Jug' Twitty and his connections.....

    Is there a pattern here? of powerful well connected people conspiring to set-up or entrap Joran? Could they be so bold, hubristic?

    A possible MO linking Aruba and Peru?

    Do these 'news' station have a monopoly on this case?

    Why does no-one or no other 'news' medium question their biased reporting?

    If this is even remotely possible then Joran van Der Sloot will not fare well.

    IMHO Justice is on trial here not Joran and all of the aforementioned must be investigated for the sake of Justice.


    Wow (none / 0) (#56)
    by Untold Story on Mon Jul 05, 2010 at 08:16:48 AM EST
    Wondered about Greta's fascination with Sarah Palin and always found it weird - now I know!

    Aloha Jeralyn (none / 0) (#7)
    by AlohaMade on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 05:21:46 AM EST
    How would this affect the Judge's denial of the Habeas Corpus? And if Altez can prove this, would this also mean a dismisal of Judge Cordova?
    Mahalo Nui Loa!

    Altez has said (none / 0) (#9)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 09:46:56 AM EST
    he wants the confession voided so Joran can be interviewed again -- a do-over, with his chosen counsel present. I suspect Joran would tell it a little differently now, either in terms of what he did or his mental state as he was doing it.

    If the Judge were to find Joran's statement matches with the physical evidence as to what happened, and that he acted spontaneously and emotionally, Joran could be liable for what we call murder in the heat of passion.

       Article 109 .- homicide violent emotion

        He who kills another under the influence of violent emotion that circumstances make it excusable, shall be punished by imprisonment of not less than three nor more than five years.

        Artículo 109.- Homicidio por emoción violenta

        El que mata a otro bajo el imperio de una emoción violenta que las circunstancias hacen excusable, será reprimido con pena privativa de libertad, no menor de tres ni mayor de cinco años.

    11 years in CA for conviction for (none / 0) (#10)
    by oculus on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 11:44:00 AM EST
    voluntary manslaughter.  

    What do you think of...? (none / 0) (#11)
    by jbindc on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 12:18:19 PM EST
    The report that Joran wants $1 million for an on-camera interview?

    Do you know for certain (none / 0) (#40)
    by Untold Story on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 06:30:44 PM EST
    if Joran asked for $1M or if various media sources are not offering $1M (or more) and he is merely contemplating the offers?  

    That is how it goes for all high profile cases the media exploiting whomever they can to get some kind of twisted story.

    Do you think he is phoning, emailing, writing letters, or how would he be corresponding from his prison cell to all the media re his request for a $1M?  

    The whole thing is nonsense and more sensational headlines to sell!  And the headline are the means by which they are contacting Joran that one, or many, are willing to pay him a $1M for yet another story, knowing that perhaps he is completely innocent of what the media have already convicted him of.


    Mahalo for explanation Jeralyn (none / 0) (#45)
    by AlohaMade on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:00:06 PM EST
    So even though the Judge has already denied the Habeas Corpus...It can be overuled? And would Judge Cordova Still be the presiding investigative Judge, or would they have to appoint a new Judge? Didn't Joran already explain that his attack/murder on Stephany was spontaneous rage in his original confession?

    One more thing, and correct me if I am wrong. When Joran was brought to Peru, and detained at the Dinicici (SP), there were reports, that the Netherland's was going to provied council, but he claimed he didn't want a Dutch Lawywer, but an American Lawyer? If so, could it be possible that the Dutch Embassy arranged for Cinchay? In the begining of Jorans Conffession, he stated "My Lawyer is here," so there is the possibility that The interpretor may have told Joran, we got you a private Attorney?
    I hope your 4th is FANTASTIC!
    Mahalo Nui Loa!
    all posts IMO/IOW


    jbindc (none / 0) (#12)
    by pac on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 12:30:41 PM EST
    Well, how much was Joran sent to Peru with for the last version? and a lady dead. So,with a lot more to tell now so maybe for a million he will think of a million new confession tales, adding up to a dollar a piece?

    Anyway, glad someone finally showed up     a slow moving day on the site but the last time I can yak a lot for a while.

    I wasn't offering an opinion (none / 0) (#13)
    by jbindc on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 12:41:32 PM EST
    But, if he really is asking a million dollars for a face-to-face media interview, then I really consider him beneath contempt. And if lawyer would actually allow this to happen, then his lawyer is foolish as well.  But I don't think his lawyer is a fool - he's getting very creative with all kinds of strategy (as this post describes) to try and get his client's confession thrown out.  Although if this story is true, it really does fit in nicely with what he is charged with here in the United States - "I'll tell you what you want to hear if you pay me."

    As I posted before (none / 0) (#46)
    by AlohaMade on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:14:21 PM EST
    I agree with you jbindc, I can not understand, what the difference is, for all the times he has recieved money, for stories, that never panned out to much! He should be advised by his Lawyer to clam up! I wondered if this is why Joe T. is no longer retained by the Van der Sloot's? I feel that the more Joran "Sells" his "Stories" the less likely he could have a fair trial. I feel he should spend more time focusing on the case at hand, and what would be in his best interest. He should stop trying to sell stories about Natalee. I fear, he might even lose more council, and have difficulty finding someone else to represent him, due to the fact, that he does't know when to shut up, and quit implicating himself on a case he was never convicted of!
    Mahalo Nui Loa! Happy 4th
    all posts are IMO/IOW

    Reply button (none / 0) (#35)
    by waldenpond on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 03:30:37 PM EST
    Use the reply button under the comment you are replying to.  These are 'threaded' comments... much easier to follow the discussions.

    j (none / 0) (#14)
    by pac on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 12:48:13 PM EST
    Oh, it all sounds like more or less a joke at this point don't you think?

    No (none / 0) (#16)
    by jbindc on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 12:52:25 PM EST
    My personal opinion is that JVDS is a very dangerous person and a pathological liar who will say or do anything to get himself out of trouble.  All these other stories out there are from conspiracy theorists and people who want to twist themselves into pretzels to convince themselves that he's a good boy who is just misunderstood.

    But again - my personal opinion.


    OH YEAH?.... (none / 0) (#36)
    by railroaded on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 03:41:57 PM EST
    All these other stories out there are from conspiracy theorists and people who want to twist themselves into pretzels

    Well untwist this pretzel of malicious statement:

    FOX NEWS WEDNESDAY November 19, 2008

    BETH TWITTY:"Yes. And Greta, I was just wanting to say that, you know, like I said, it's been a long time, but it's never too late for justice. And I'd be good with a "Midnight Express" prison anywhere for Joran."


    Would you classify such a malicious statement as a conspiracy?


    seriously (none / 0) (#37)
    by pac on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 04:00:08 PM EST
    Serioulsy, just a coincidence this one I think,

    seriously not... (none / 0) (#39)
    by railroaded on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 05:17:36 PM EST
    ...no seriously, I think not. IMHO.

    Railroaded (none / 0) (#42)
    by Untold Story on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 06:49:35 PM EST
    Agree with you - this all seems to be one-sided malicious statements and gag orders while the other side seems to be open season for getting out rope to hang him from the nearest tree.

    Hard to believe this is a 'civilized' society after you listen to a few commentors on national media. Sounds more like the wild west where you would hang them high and ask questions later kind of mentality.


    Actually (none / 0) (#58)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 05, 2010 at 09:24:10 AM EST
    I wouldn't classify that as a "malicious statement" so I completely disagree with your premise.

    That's the statement of a grieving mother who truly believes JVDS killed her daughter.  I dare anyone here to not feel the same if they were in the same situation.  Anyone who says differently is deluding themselves.


    I was referring to the media (none / 0) (#59)
    by Untold Story on Mon Jul 05, 2010 at 10:22:53 AM EST
    re the Fox article quoted by Railroaded.

    I was responding (none / 0) (#60)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 05, 2010 at 01:08:42 PM EST
    to railroaded who classified Beth Twitty/Holloway's statement as "malicious"

    I think if you re-read his post (none / 0) (#69)
    by Untold Story on Mon Jul 05, 2010 at 08:58:38 PM EST
    you will find he asked if it could be considered . . . or, similar to those words.

    jbindc, actually you're wrong.... (none / 0) (#66)
    by railroaded on Mon Jul 05, 2010 at 07:58:00 PM EST
    grieving mother who truly believes JVDS killed her daughter

    The grieving mother is delusional if she "truly believes JVDS killed her daughter." Joran van Der Sloot has not been convicted in any matter, therefore, yes, it is a malicious statement.

    Deluded if anyone thinks contrary.


    Pot - Kettle (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by waldenpond on Mon Jul 05, 2010 at 08:25:00 PM EST
    A parent may not believe that someone is responsible for the death of their child unless the perpetrator is found guilty in court?  People are known to be responsible for crimes but there isn't sufficient evidence to prosecute or a person may be found not-guilty of a crime on a technical issue.  To declare society would be in the wrong to discuss the issue?  Weird.  To call another commentor that doesn't agree with you deluded.... ick.

    People are often convicted of (none / 0) (#68)
    by Untold Story on Mon Jul 05, 2010 at 08:50:36 PM EST
    crimes they didn't commit.

    The reason we have a court of law is to determine guilt or non-guilt as to the facts of evidence presented.

    Many are also convicted in the present day court of public opinion due to the media's insatiable appetite for sensationalist hype that sells and for which they pay enormous sums of money.  This also results in tremendous pressure on authorities to accept as facts theories presented and to indict people without sufficient evidence.

    To become obsessed and paranoid with one's own suspicion of guilt is very dangerous and should not be so readily tolerated.


    Untold Story, thank you, and.... (none / 0) (#74)
    by railroaded on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 01:25:43 AM EST
    To become obsessed and paranoid with one's own suspicion of guilt is very dangerous and should not be so readily tolerated.

    ...thank you again.


    And people (none / 0) (#75)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 06:45:16 AM EST
    walk free all the time when they do commit crimes.  

    What's your point?

    No one here knows exactly what evidence the police have on JVDS.  We know what little has spilled out and what little has been reported.  Much of the stuff out there and in the comments here is pure speculation and based on wild conspiracy theories ("Natalee's mother is behind it and got him to kill a girl to get locked up!")

    I don't think it's obsessive and paranoid to to look a little harder and with a little more suspicion at a person who was already involved to some extent in one situation where a girl went missing or is dead (especially when that person continues to lie).

    The world is watching these proceedings, so pardon me if I'm highly skeptical that the Peruvian officials would be sloppy with this and try to brush things under the rug just to convict JVDS.  If anything, I think that they will take extra care in making sure all their T's are crossed and their I's dotted.


    Let me guess. . . (none / 0) (#76)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 08:36:35 AM EST
    you live next door to Peter Pan, still believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny does hop down your garden path :)

    I do admire your naivety in your belief of fairness and what has 'spilled out' is actual truth!


    No (none / 0) (#77)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 01:25:45 PM EST
    But if we are going to preach "innocent until proven guilty" then we should also not always assume every criminal proceeding is tainted by corruption and that every police officer and every prosecutor is trying to screw JVDS.  Unless you have direct knowledge of the Peruvian justice system and the specific people involved and would care to share.....?

    Replies are on new link (none / 0) (#78)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 02:20:24 PM EST
    Yes Pac (none / 0) (#47)
    by AlohaMade on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:22:51 PM EST
    But his Lawyer Altez did say he was going to try and paralyze the system. If you had a chatterbox of a client, that continued to talk/ sell stories, implicateing himself in a crime, he was never charged with. I would assume you would just about do anything to keep the focus on the case at hand.
    Happy 4th
    Mahalo Nui Loa!
    all posts are IMO/IOW

    Wasn't it the media (none / 0) (#48)
    by Untold Story on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:33:34 PM EST
    that said he was trying to paralyze the system in their competent analysis?

    Aloha Untold Story (none / 0) (#53)
    by AlohaMade on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 09:52:29 PM EST
    I don't have televison/cable t.v., I spend a lot of time on line reading, newspapers from all over the world w/translation. but I am pretty sure it was a quote from Altez. However, I can also accept the correction if it wasn't Altez that said it. Google translator sometimes isn't all that great.  :)
    Hope your having a great 4th!
    Mahalo Nui Loa!
    all posts are IMO/IOW

    behavior (none / 0) (#15)
    by pac on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 12:51:28 PM EST
    If Mr. Kelly can supposedly be contacted as a lawyer by an obviously 'unstable'  Joran and then become a friend who goes to Aruba to meet Joran????? kind of Clinton like words there? and that is considered okay then just figure all of it like selective persuit?

    closure (none / 0) (#17)
    by pac on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 01:07:10 PM EST

    People will probably have an interest in aspects of this case from time to time, such as if more is learned about Natalee and some other, but how long the media will be able to pound on it as in the past, I don't know?  I haven't heard of Joran getting any offers.  Maybe there will be closure.


    The media attention (none / 0) (#19)
    by jbindc on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 01:21:26 PM EST
    will wane until his trial comes up.  Then, I expect, it will be a circus.  If he's convicted, we'll have a few days of constant "What's his life going to be like in a Peruvian prison?" and then we may hear about him again on the anniversary(ies).

    If he is acquitted, we may hear lots about him as he will become a paparazzi target (and possibly a REAL target for someone).


    A Real Target if Acquitted? (none / 0) (#20)
    by squeaky on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 01:29:40 PM EST
    Because many share your opinion of him?

    My personal opinion is that JVDS is a very dangerous person and a pathological liar who will say or do anything to get himself out of trouble

    And some of the lynch mob would take matters into their own hands?


    Yes, (none / 0) (#22)
    by jbindc on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 01:37:07 PM EST
    I think it's a real possibility that if he is acquitted, someone would make him a target.

    Of course, you will now twist that into something like I personally would want it to happen, or I would support that, so I'll save you the time and state that it isn't true.


    Huh? (none / 0) (#31)
    by squeaky on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 02:36:53 PM EST
    Of course, you will now twist that into something like I personally would want it to happen, or I would support that

    your twist not mine. I was clear in my statement that others who share your opinion may kill him.

    But your absurd tough on crime, love of the police state position, seems to fall on its face here, because that odds of Joran getting killed are 100 to 1 were he to be convicted and remain in a Peruvian prison.

    Oh, hadn't crossed your mind.... lol


    Acquitted? (none / 0) (#44)
    by Untold Story on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 07:23:10 PM EST
    There would be a 'private plane' touch down at Jorge Chavez to whisking him away - on out over the Pacific. . .

    Then we will go on for years wondering what happened to JVdS on his way back to Aruba, who ordered the private plane, where did the money for the plane come from, and, on, and on.  But we will never know. . -


    coincidence (none / 0) (#18)
    by pac on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 01:18:14 PM EST
    I find it real hard to believe that the 5th anniversary of Natalee's disappearance Stephany dies a complete coincidence but how to explain? I don't expect much, to ever know why, so if the coincidence is determined that will be a surprise.

    Hey Pac (none / 0) (#51)
    by Untold Story on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 09:27:01 PM EST
    The May 30 date - from what I have read about Joran, he is not a calculating person.  I would doubt very much that he would be clued into the date - just doesn't fit with his personality.  He was at a poker tournament - don't think he was in Lima for any other reason.

    Why this all happened on the 30th - that is part of the mystery of this whole case.


    Untold Story (none / 0) (#61)
    by pac on Mon Jul 05, 2010 at 01:32:14 PM EST
    Untold Story: Is is okay to assume that minus the many girls with more stories that in this case, rage a good possiiblity? but your opinion about other possibilities? kind of hard to imagine how sex could lead to a head injury, can't understand such but,

    Drinking 15 drinks, I can't imagine either yet Joran and Stephany drove back to the hotel.

    For now, I haven't forgotten about your suggestion to think about why Stephany's family thought that she was kidnapped. Assuming Joran is not considered someone who would have kidnapped her or been involved? and a few more thougts later,

    Maybe much left up to lawyers to defend Joran but my goal is before over assuming him, which is easy considering a missing girl and a dead girl,

    and if he isn't calculating enough for the anniversary date to be significant, than how to explain if the notice is not a coincidence?

    A few areas for me to work on before enough understanding.

    Any help here?


    Your right (none / 0) (#62)
    by Untold Story on Mon Jul 05, 2010 at 02:08:15 PM EST
    there is a missing and a dead girl, however, there is also a young man who has been convicted more or less of a crime for five years, and who now faces death, perhaps not by a state but by what public opinion is promoting.

    Have never thought sex, have never thought there was a message of any kind that popped up.  

    I would even go for a wire of some kind before the two above - but don't know - no evidence of any of that was found (or, would it have been confiscated by the parties responsible for the camera???)

    Don't know - such a mystery.  Wish I didn't have this gut feeling something is so wrong with confession deal.


    job question (none / 0) (#71)
    by pac on Mon Jul 05, 2010 at 11:54:14 PM EST
    Untold Story:

    For whatever reason considering the news I read here was not especially detailed about Stephany although a few comments such as "smile", "happier than ever", and ? something about a list of jobs that she would like to do and marked them off one at a time. With so little detail actually, what do you assume the mention of the marked off jobs?


    reply (none / 0) (#21)
    by pac on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 01:33:13 PM EST

    Joran appears that way on one hand and then there is the lacking of background before Natalee's disappearance and between Stephany's death, violence of ladies or ladies coming forth with horror stories, etc.  I think that is why areas are difficult to understand.

    The fact that Joran started telling all of the various confession stories a big red flag of being unstable?  

    There is some question as to how much was there to begin with, how much was created by possible trauma? or definite mishandling?, how much was brought on by continued mishandling, and how such a coincidence?

    If asked various concerned parties such as Joran's mother, Mrs. Twitty, Mr. Flores, etc. might get various answers, so ?

    Mrs. VDS claims she was trying to get Joran mental help. I think she must have noticed how ODD the many various confession stories?

    Greta said at some point that the FBI dropped the ball?

    Obviously from the above remarks people were making various attempts at the same time but none that worked to prevent Stephany's death.

    All of this easy to say in hindsight? yes.

    That's (none / 0) (#25)
    by jbindc on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 01:44:12 PM EST
    Why we cannot make judgments solely based on posts or comments from a blog with a one-sided slant or what Greta or Nancy Grace say.  

    Look, both sides here have an agenda.  The police and government say they have enough evidence even without his confession to convict him. Stephany's family wants her killer convicted, and if they believe it's VDS then their comments will reflect that. JVDS' lawyer is going to say that the police are corrupt, the confession was coerced, and will try and deflect suspicion by trying to introduce reasonable doubt - that's his job. Everyone has an agenda and right now it's to play this out in the media.

    (Remember - under the Peruvian system, he can be convicted by a preponderance of the evidence standard, which is far lower a standard than here in the US - basically, the three judge panel just have to believe it's more likely than not that he committed the crime for them to find him guilty).

    All this other stuff going on may be interesting, but most of it probably has nothing to do with whether or not he killed Stephany Flores.  


    acquitted (none / 0) (#23)
    by pac on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 01:37:57 PM EST
    No, I don't expect to see Joran acquitted in Peru.

    figure (none / 0) (#24)
    by pac on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 01:43:22 PM EST
    I guess you can't rule out that someone hasn't already made him a target? but,

    the media proved one good point about Joran and that was by showing he was mentally unstable with all of the false confession stories.

    Who in their right mind didn't think he had to have some issues?  Whether his issues were just there or began with trauma, mishandling, ?

    Odd, redundant but, odd that there are the no stories from the other many females? How do you figure?

    Well (none / 0) (#26)
    by jbindc on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 01:47:46 PM EST
    The media have not shown that he's mentally unstable.  Maybe he is, but maybe he's playing that angle because it works to his benefit.  He could just as easily be a cold-blooded sociopath and this is all very carefully orchestrated.  But until an experienced doctor makes that determination, we don't know anything about his mental state, except what each side wants us to think.

    I know of one ex-girlfriend who said he was more than a jerk, and if the stories about the Thai prostitution ring are true, then it might show that he really doesn't have a high regard from women.  And just because we haven't heard of anything, doesn't mean something isn't there.


    media (none / 0) (#27)
    by pac on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 01:53:20 PM EST
    Also, it is unclear media aspect? Think of Brittany who was pounded the side of a car with her head shaved? It is not that Joran didn't need a pounding of some kind to find out what happened, disappearance, or what was going on in his head, with the various stories, but 17 years old and HUGE negative mass media pounding day after day. I don't know, do you?

    One thing for sure, I know it is nice not to be famous for anything good or bad these days! Maybe there are studies on media exploitation, such as celebrities and more? When Jackie Kennedy O. said that "people will steal your soul" could you question if the media could have brought about her thought?

    The media isn't helpful (none / 0) (#29)
    by jbindc on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 02:05:49 PM EST
    But the way to avoid being famous for doing something bad is, well, not do something bad!

    And, what happens, say (none / 0) (#43)
    by Untold Story on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 06:59:47 PM EST
    if you are wrongly accused?

    Aruba is 42 square miles - three countries must have, together, and separately, searched almost every inch of that tiny Island and yet found no piece of evidence.

    Peru's story, insofar as I am concerned, seems to be a mystery from start to finish - nothing makes sense in this Peruvian other than the 'fit like a glove' confession of Joran's.  But, how was it actually obtained?  That we have to wait to get the truth.  And is this confession such a perfect fit to the crime scene (the last crime scene) because Joran gave it of his free will, or, is it what he was made to confess to?

    Can he completely retract his confession or does he have to give a confession under Peruvian law?


    correction (none / 0) (#28)
    by pac on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 01:56:29 PM EST
    Jackie Kennedy Onassis I read told her son that "people will TRY to steal your soul"  , media connection do you think?

    jbindc (none / 0) (#30)
    by pac on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 02:12:28 PM EST
    Weird but I don't think Peru, considering Stephany, will give in to mental, on it's own, That chance was blown to deal with before Peru,

    I think Peru will do as little as possible about right violations, on their own ? but I'm not a lawyer and possibly some of that can be pressed? Out of my field.

    Where I think there is an awareness is what may have precipitated, mistakes and mishandling by others, and maybe some willingness to distribute blame to enough of an extent to see the mental, and other areas... don't know how to explain exactly but somewhere in it all?  there must be resentment that Joran ended up there under the circumstances he did and possibly some question if their were motives or self interest of others or blunders..  How all of that gets worked into, or how I don't know. Example, if it could be shown that Stephany and Joran were friendly and circumstances brought on by others with motive set something which otherwise would have not happened..? which is actually possible?

    I assume you are asking what I thought.

    no stone unturned (none / 0) (#32)
    by pac on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 02:57:32 PM EST

    Jbindc, I am just yaking, sad for all concerned!  Sometimes I try to point out areas that might be overlooked like leaving no stone unturned?

    jjbindc (none / 0) (#34)
    by pac on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 03:17:07 PM EST
    It is hard to answer questions from the lawyers point of view, such as how to defend, with an understanding that Joran needs to do some time, either in jail or the hospital, such as his mother was trying to place him.

    Also, Joran would be better off if he can prove Natalee's disappearance was not of a nature as Stephany.

    jjbindc:  but, with all the questioning about legal defense , how to make sure Natalee and Stephany rights are not violated at this point?  

    With all so much to sort!

    anything else (none / 0) (#38)
    by pac on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 04:29:40 PM EST

    What happened to Natalee?  I think there were other people who saw Natalee! and would probably know something about her condition. Whether or not the people will talk or, even tell the truth, now that Joran is in jail? People who may have information about Natalee could misrepresent now due to Joran being in such a position that he has ended.

    jjbindc: Joran's lawyer might be able to bring forth information that has been lost in the shuffle. The fact is and like others have said on this site most likely Joran rots in Peru prison. Worrying about Joran at this point is for lawyers. There were times that more could have probably been done in various ways but didn't happen. Possibly mistakes were made which ended in disaster on the part of people other than Joran too.

    Nobody knows and maybe nobody ever will to a full extent.

    Untold Story:   Is there anything else to think about?

    Happy 4th to all (none / 0) (#52)
    by AlohaMade on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 09:40:45 PM EST
    IMO no matter how much money Joran is offered , for another one of his stories. He will never give an accurate story( in detail) in either case, Aruba or Peru, this is whom Joran really is. I mean to be caught in this situation, and be in fear for his life. Joran has a history of being a (self endowed) pathological lier. So what makes this extortion, and suspected offer of $1 million dollars, plus all the other network interviews, different? is it in dollar amounts? I mean Joran's mo, is to retract/repute his statements all the time.
    Mahalo Nui Loa!
    all posts are IMO/IOW

    Aloha (none / 0) (#63)
    by Untold Story on Mon Jul 05, 2010 at 02:15:11 PM EST
    Hope you enjoyed your 4th of July!

    All I have to say about this money available for Joran's stories is that one should remember, Joran is not holding a gun to anyone's head for money for his stories.  

    If in five years the media and others haven't yet learned that (a) either this kid knows nothing and is just spinning stories, (b) they will not get an accurate story, (c) or, they will get something of a story that will make headlines, promote their media outlet, make the cash register ring, (d) they are plain dumb, or (e) they think they are smart enough to entangle him in a web of no retreat.

    Which do you think it is?


    RE: Untold Story (none / 0) (#70)
    by AlohaMade on Mon Jul 05, 2010 at 09:42:26 PM EST
    I totally agree with you about the media circus, and I know that Joran is not holding a gun to their heads...But I can not fathom someone who enjoys implicating himself in those stories. I agree that the media continuosly chases after him for such stories, and rewards him with money, so they can sensationalize Jorans life. But if I knew I had nothing to do with the ending of someone's life. I guarantee I would not be trying to attract attention to my self, by lieing, and implicating my precence that may have involved the disapearence or death of someone. Both sides have a sickness as far as I am concerned.
    Mahalo Nui Loa!
    all posts are IMO/IOW

    nmore notices (none / 0) (#72)
    by pac on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 12:17:27 AM EST
    I have not listened as carefully as some of you to Joran's stories. Although I followed the case carefully in the beginning the story telling time more distractins. So, without much it was easy to figure something wasn't right with the picture. Joran's mother mentioned something about him lying, lying about sneaking and the ex girlfriend mentioned something about maybe lying about other girls but none of that falls into the same category in my opinion. Judging what appeared to be background and then came the story telling time? The story telling time appeared sort of a leap.

    The exacts ? I don't know but a 17 year old and the media, a media who is against him so?  or how that plays out in his real world and not knowing the actually happened?

    Also, for whatever reason, Joran's father said that "he was a boy changed" and didn't appear to have any reason at the time for saying so that I can remember but? regardless, why assume everything the VDS say is a lie? I don't recall that where I read that statement gave any further information or if Mr. VDS was asked at the time to explain what he meant?

    When Joran doesn't remember particular incidents in his confession, is that like temporary insanity or could be in some cases just because they didn't really do it. I am trying to determine why he can't remember.

    In theory, you could see a crime scene or witness a crime and know enough to provide detail but you wouldn't know what the other person was thinking?

    more abt. camera (none / 0) (#73)
    by pac on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 12:50:01 AM EST
    Judging the videos there is little back up anything other than Joran did what he said. Having seen very little video, other than the enter, coffee and exist ?  I am not qualified to know how much tamper or reliable? One thought, if the video camera that is shown pictured on Joran's door is the camera in question? then are the videos that we see taken from that camera?