Thursday Afternoon News And Open Thread

The Senate passes the financial overhaul bill. It now goes to Obama for signature.

Arizona's SB1070 is getting its first court hearing today. Only one of the seven lawsuits against the law is being heard, that of Officer David Salgado and the statewide nonprofit group Chicanos Por La Causa.

Scott McInnis vows on Facebook not to quit ("I'm in it to win it" he says) but our local Fox affiliate is reporting the Republican Governor's Association is withdrawing its support and canceling fundraisers for him.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    anyone (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 02:18:04 PM EST
    besides me looking forward to Inception?

    sort of (none / 0) (#2)
    by Dadler on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 02:26:42 PM EST
    not a huge christopher nolan fan ("memento" got me off on the wrong foot with him; imo a very nothing movie that was all concept and no payoff whatsoever), but "inception" looks interesting.

    fwiw (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 02:36:42 PM EST
    I loved Memento

    thats funny (none / 0) (#3)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 02:36:20 PM EST
    I totally forgot he did that.  Dark Knight is the one most people refer to.

    Anyone besides me creeped out about Cheney (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by esmense on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 02:38:26 PM EST
    "entering a new phase" as one of the undead?


    Apparently he will have to plug himself into an outlet at night and will no longer have a pulse.

    Does Medicare pay for this stuff?

    This doesn't bode well for our ability to EVER  get rid of the current generation of super-rich, old white guys who have ruined the nation -- and apparently plan to do everything in their power to stick around and ruined it even more.

    If he needs an LVAD, he probably (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:04:39 PM EST
    also (no joke) needs a heart transplant, and if he's not a good candidate for that, he's probably looking at end-stage heart failure, since the LVAD is not intended to be a permanent fix.

    In terms of the nation, and the damage to it that he managed to wreak while in office, I can't say as I would mourn his death; in terms of his family, I can still manage to summon up enough compassion to acknowledge that that would be a sad time for them.  I do not have enough compassion, however, to keep from shuddering at the thought of what the media coverage would be like.  Ugh.

    I could wait a long time, though, before having to hear what praises Obama will sing - and you know he will find some way to make Cheney sound like a really good guy.


    I just saw some fresh footage (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:07:45 PM EST
    of Clinton in Haiti.  No sign of Dubya though.  I wonder if he's been able to get away and get down there to help much?

    Too busy running his boat aground in Maine. (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by Angel on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 05:07:45 PM EST
    Seriously, it happened just the other day.  He's good at running things aground or over the cliff, like he did our country.  The people of Haiti probably don't want him over there.

    I thought that was his dad that did that caper (none / 0) (#67)
    by DFLer on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 05:41:51 PM EST
    You are correct. I just googled it and it was (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by Angel on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 05:48:19 PM EST
    senior.  I read the headline the other day and just made the assumption that it was Dubya.  My bad.  I still stand by my comments about junior running things aground or off the cliff.  

    Worried about Bill (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 08:04:06 PM EST
    Between running down to Haiti, being enlisted by the WH and Rahm to stump for all the Dems afraid of losing in Nov, and meetings at the WH on how to solve the country's financial woes, when does he have time to take care of his health?  Pacing oneself is a good thing.

    I think Bill Clinton gets lots of joy from (none / 0) (#100)
    by Untold Story on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 09:57:56 PM EST
    helping people - so, perhaps, it is a type of therapy for him.

    Maybe it's guilt... (none / 0) (#114)
    by kdog on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 07:40:49 AM EST
    for all those placed in chains under his reign...he's got karmic debts to repay and he knows it.  

    Probably owes 1000 hours of community service alone for hiring that bastard Gen. McCaffrey.


    Don't think he needs therapy (none / 0) (#165)
    by BackFromOhio on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 12:53:32 PM EST
    or has any more karmic debts to repay.  I do think he gets much satisfaction out of working on things that actually do good, but everyone has his/her physical breaking point.  Pacing is important....

    I'm amazed he has lived this long. (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by observed on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 07:53:56 PM EST
    Not that I know much about cardiac care, but  I know he had 3 heart attacks before he was 50; I've also read that he has continued to eat a high salt diet as his heart failure progressed.
    I would be curious to know how many dollars have been spent on his health care. I'm truly impressed at what the doctors have done, but the pricetag is probably many millions.

    Cheney is the perfect example of (5.00 / 0) (#84)
    by hairspray on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 08:42:54 PM EST
    a big problem with our health care.  He obviously has received extraordinary cardiac care all the while he has been non-compliant with a regimen designed to put responsibility with the patient.  Cardiac rehabilitation would have had him drop 60 pounds a long time ago.  He would have done that by eating differently and exercising.  Did he? Just look at him.  And he socks the US health system with the costs.  Typical GOP  parasite.

    This brings to mind a question (none / 0) (#87)
    by observed on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 09:00:01 PM EST
    about medical costs: does the cost of new care decrease over time, as it does in many areas where new technology develops at a rapid pace?
    For example,  are there cancer treatments or cardiac therapies/surgeries which have gone down in cost over the last 10 years, or at least not increased as much as health care costs in general?

    Yes, over a long time. However, (none / 0) (#89)
    by hairspray on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 09:07:10 PM EST
    Cheney seems to be getting the latest innovation at the most highly rated facility.  Not that he would ever make sure that the average person would be eligible for the same things.

    Thanks for the answer. (none / 0) (#91)
    by observed on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 09:09:05 PM EST
    No, because the physicians are able to own and (none / 0) (#92)
    by Untold Story on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 09:16:44 PM EST
    operate diagnostic centers (when one test might do, why don't we be absolutely positive and do three more) for profit.  The equipment gets more expensive and costs go up. How does one say, nicely, conflict of interest? It is like an assembly line in and out of these diagnostic centers.

    There are many other ways reform health care could have taken care of the outrageous costs of medical care, and they choose not to do so.

    Doctors should not be allowed to own hospitals.

    Don't know if you noticed within the last ten to fifteen years how many small hospitals are cropping up all over - physician owned, directly or indirectly - profit based.  Another obvious conflict of interest.


    I'm not opposed to your positions, but (none / 0) (#115)
    by observed on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 07:43:06 AM EST
    are you really explaining why these medical costs have not gone down, while the cost of HD TVs has?

    No, I am explaining that the sky-rocketing cost (none / 0) (#118)
    by Untold Story on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 07:50:38 AM EST
    of medical care (in case you have been on another planet) compared to inflation and other costs, have, repeat sky-rocketed to amounts that cannot be sustained.  

    An overnight stay in a hospital is some where between #12,000 to $25,000.  And, that is not ICU.

    People, who have worked all their lives, have health insurance (all health insurance only pays a certain percentage except for those 'Cadillac' plans) and who find themselves faced with a serious medical problem are often times wiped out financially.  

    Haven't you been reading any of this?


    Don't know if you are a lawyer or not (none / 0) (#120)
    by Untold Story on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 08:03:39 AM EST
    know there are many on this site - so imagine if lawyers were allowed to 'own' or own shares in courthouses - and be able to charge rent for the hours a client (plaintiff and defendant) were using the court room.  

    Then you have the judge's charges for his time - say, perhaps $250 to $600 an hour - depending on his expertise, of course.

    Those paperclips and pencils and papers are not free either, they will be tacked on your bill (same as the tissues, simple aspirin, etc. charged for in a hospital room).  In addition, if you want to use a computer you would have charges (out of pocket the lawyer would charge the client).

    Of course there may be many other charges I am missing along the way here.

    But at the same time the lawyers would be able to deduct all legal equipment, legal supplies, etc., as expenses from taxes owed.

    Hope you are getting the picture.


    But you cannot state as a fact that (none / 0) (#93)
    by Untold Story on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 09:27:15 PM EST
    he has been non-compliant with a regimen of cardiac rehabilitation since you have no idea whatsoever which arteries were blocked and what damage was done because of the three heart attacks!  Therefore, you have no idea as to what exercise he would be allowed to do or not do, or if he was, in fact, or not, compliant with his doctors recommendations!

    Really if it were all as simple as diet and exercise then heart disease should have been eradicated a long time ago.  


    His first heart attack was age 37 and he is now 69 (none / 0) (#83)
    by Untold Story on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 08:20:52 PM EST
    But he should be good to go for a few more years with this device -

    who would like to bet (none / 0) (#13)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:08:45 PM EST
    that if he need a heart transplant he will get it good candidate or not.

    Of course his family will mourn -- I feel sympathy (none / 0) (#47)
    by esmense on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 04:10:30 PM EST
    sympathy for all those who grieve, and certainly understand his wish to be kept alive, and his family's wish to keep him alive. But as someone who has been forced to face my own mortality over the last few years, I'm perhaps more sensitive to some other issues raised by this news (they have nothing to do with VP Cheney's politics). Death and grief are a normal part of life. How far do we go to keep a failing body artificially functioning?  

    They have improved this device (none / 0) (#57)
    by Untold Story on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 04:50:28 PM EST
    and some last years.  However, he will have to carry a card indicating that even though he doesn't have a pulse, he is not dead.  Wow, that inself, bad me, I find very funny!

    (He doesn't have to carry the card about his rights if stopped by police - so one less card!)


    he had (none / 0) (#6)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 02:40:34 PM EST
    a pulse?

    I picture him more like (none / 0) (#9)
    by republicratitarian on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:04:42 PM EST
    the character on Futurama; Nixon's Head in the glass.

    Medicare has a set amount it will be (none / 0) (#95)
    by Untold Story on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 09:41:33 PM EST
    if the treatment is deemed necessary to sustain life.  If physicians accept medicare then they have to accept medicare's payment.  

    Don't know about hospitals if they have to accept medicare assignment or not.

    However, Cheney has something much different than medicare - it is what all members of Congree and the Senate have and it is Federal medical insurance and that covers absolutely everything one could ever think of - and then some.  The Cadillac medical insurance I think is what someone stated calling it last year.


    WaPo alert: - well cap is closed (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by BTAL on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:10:37 PM EST
    BP says new cap on well fully closed, no more oil leaking into Gulf

    BP says oil has stopped leaking into the Gulf for the first time since April.

    BP has been slowly dialing down the flow as part of a test on a new cap. Engineers are now monitoring the pressure to see if the busted well holds.

    Fingers crossed it holds.

    Encouraging news, for sure. (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:36:19 PM EST
    However, we do need some clarifications.  Even if they completely stopped the flow they still have a blown out well.  It would just be shut in at that point.  It has not been killed and they still have to get heavy mud into the well by way of the relief well(s) to stop the flow from the reservoir; then re-enter the well from the top and permanently plug it.  The work on both relief wells was stopped a few days ago as the integrity tests were debated and then approved to go forward. The cap is certainly a great interim step assuming that is what it is, until the relief wells are re-started,  completed and the well killed.  

    Correct as to it being an interim step (none / 0) (#25)
    by BTAL on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:41:00 PM EST
    but it is a very important one.

    One report indicated that the reason for stopping the relief drilling and the clearing of clean up vessels was to run another seismic scan prior closing the cap.  They wanted to be as sure as possible as to the deeper well condition.  The seismic "antenna" is over 3 miles long.


    There was also concern by (none / 0) (#32)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:48:44 PM EST
    John Wright, the outside relief well contractor, for risks to the first relief well, owing to its horizontal proximity to the wild well as well as to minimize blowout risks to the second relief well.  Acoustic tests were run to assess integrity, and it may be that the relief wells were used for that purpose, although I have not seen confirmatory information.  Another seismic test is to be conducted after the shut in, to evaluate changes from one test to the other.

    KD, I imagine you've been following (none / 0) (#166)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 01:08:01 PM EST
    oil pro Bob Cavner at Daily Hurricane and HuffPo; and Fishgrease has a number of recent diaries at DKos and comments on other threads.

    By way of crude summary: Cavner and FG are both of the mind that all of the oil could have been sent to the surface from the outset -- at least since the installation of the LMRP on June 3rd. Basically, they're saying BP has chosen not to collect ALL of it because then it could be definitively measured and liability assessed accordingly via BOPD (barrels of oil per day). From BP's perspective, it's better to let the oil spill into the Gulf -- that way the BOPD will be negotiable in court.

    Cavner and Fishgrease also agree the so-called well integrity tests are a very bad idea -- basically a PR stunt and a stalling tactic to avoid sending the oil to the surface for collection and measurement -- and it poses a very real risk of damaging the well in a big way.

    All the best to you and yours in the Keys.



    If the wellhead passes integrity tests (none / 0) (#36)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:52:42 PM EST
    there is no reason to not make this a production well now :)  None that I know of at least.  If the wellhead and casing is sound under pressure (indicating also that there is no other leaks), I don't think this is technically a blowout any longer.  I anticipate after that an argument that the well become a production well and all procedes from it go towards healing the gulf coast.

    I have these suspicions since I heard one report on the Fourth of July that one of the relief wells was only inches from the casing.  That was eleven days ago.  If they had wanted to kill it a week ago, they could have.


    Tracy, I think it is still (none / 0) (#63)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 05:07:55 PM EST
    a blown out well, albeit, hopefully, one temporarily capped by the 18 feet high, 150,000 pound stack of pipes.  However, the oil can, and will be, captured and sold, not only converting that black stuff to green, but also, bolstering BP stock prices, should there be a takeover by say, China National Offshore OIl.  The relief wells could be converted to production wells, and at a cost of about $100 million per relief well, that is change BP can believe in.

    Ah, so they can perhaps produce (none / 0) (#107)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 12:41:00 AM EST
    from one of the relief wells.  My husband and I were talking about this a few days ago, wondering if the gulf coast could be open to the idea of this well being produced and then the proceeds going to repair what we can repair.  If they can prove to me that it is a safe well, I myself can attempt to do this.  But I really don't want anymore deep sea drilling done.  They don't know what they are doing, and the forces of nature at those depths are not something we can contend with just swimming in and punching holes into the darkness.

    Tapping into the old well (none / 0) (#64)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 05:13:41 PM EST
    without capping it would not stop oil from flowing into the Gulf via the old pipe.

    Think a Y connection on garden hoses.


    MT, you heard wrong (none / 0) (#104)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 11:57:42 PM EST
    on where the relief well drilling was.  It's close, but nowhere near "inches" close, something like 20 feet above where they're aiming and 5 feet to the side.

    Obviously, those last feet and inches, they have to go very, very, very slowly and carefully, so it's farther away than it seems.

    There is literally nobody who knows oil drilling who thinks there's even the remotest chance this well will ever be used as a production well.  If they can kill it, it'll be killed, dead, gone, never coming back.  There's damage down there somewhere, not just at the top, and it's just too wildly risky to even consider reopening it for production.

    There's also no need to take that risk because they can move a little distance away and drill a new well into that reservoir, which I fully expect they will do if they're allowed to continue operating in the Gulf-- which I personally would not permit them to do EVER, but I'm not in charge, alas.


    Before the end of June (none / 0) (#108)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 12:53:10 AM EST
    they said they were within 20 feet.  I heard they were closer from a kid who is in the military but is also working for BP in LA when he is off duty, they are paying him big money per hour too to scoop up sand and tar balls.  It is a little unsetteling that some people have no job and he has two that are paying fairly well right now.  It may be nothing more than a rumor though.  If so, then they quit drilling on the relief wells at the end of June.  Why would they do that?

    BP is having problems with the relief well BOPDs (none / 0) (#172)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 01:24:35 PM EST
    (blowout preventers). I suppose that would be a good reason to stop drilling -- and now they're putting on a dog and pony show with the well-integrity test et al, till they get the relief well BOPDs sorted out. LINK via Firedoglake.

    thank you (none / 0) (#185)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 06:47:53 PM EST
    FWIW MT, if you're interested, (none / 0) (#167)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 01:14:07 PM EST
    maybe take a look at my above comment #166 to KeysDan. Be well.

    Don't know how to tell you this, or (none / 0) (#94)
    by Untold Story on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 09:32:02 PM EST
    perhaps it has nothing to do with the capping of the well - but I an 'alert' this evening to sell all BP stock!  (Maybe because of the hearings and probably BP won't be able to sell off parts as they plan - don't know how interested Exxon would be to get into all that liability.)

    Anyway, I certainly hope that capping works!


    News this morning... (none / 0) (#117)
    by kdog on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 07:49:02 AM EST
    says BP stock is up on the capping news.

    Not that that means anything...just gamblers gambling.


    Well, that makes sense (none / 0) (#119)
    by Untold Story on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 07:56:21 AM EST
    now that I sold mine at a loss! Thanks for the cheery news -

    You owned BP stock? (none / 0) (#121)
    by kdog on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 08:20:01 AM EST
    "Out damned spot! Out I say!"

    - Lady Macbeth

    Just bustin' your chops pal, I fund my share of bad news too...not via stock purchase, via taxes.


    At the Opening Bell (none / 0) (#123)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 08:33:11 AM EST
    with the two most watched stocks of the day

    Apple up and BP down.


    Thanks (none / 0) (#125)
    by Untold Story on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 08:49:45 AM EST
    It's getting to the point I hate to look at my Ameritrade - all that red! Used to do it 6am until 3pm (Central) - but just can't take the up and down motion - making me rather seasick.

    Yeah, (none / 0) (#124)
    by Untold Story on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 08:46:18 AM EST
    Actually owned it before April 20 - so had to keep it, hoping.  Until last night, gone at a loss.  Which can I say, peanut butter w/o jelly for awhile :)

    Donald, you are too funny... (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:19:26 PM EST
    If McInnis really did try to channel Churchill, I would laugh my a$$ off...

    very cool (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 04:59:24 PM EST
    Functional Exoskeleton for the Disabled

    Hayden Allen hasn't walked in five years, but in this video, he's able to move around using a new type of exoskeleton called REX:

    On the financial "reform" bill (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by Cream City on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 05:24:06 PM EST
    I gotta say that I gotta go with Senator Feingold on his very serious reservations about it.  I finally found time to catch up with his info to constituents, and it well may be that the bill will not be much good -- and in that, it would be another missed opportunity by Obama and the Dems to actually achieve real reform.

    But of course, it is being heralded by Obama and the Dems as accomplishing much.  Hope so, but somehow, the track record does not inspire confidence.

    and provide (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 08:15:16 PM EST
    badly needed protections for the public

    Today in the NYT I think, I read that (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by hairspray on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 08:51:31 PM EST
    the Europeans are doing the right thing by capping the renumeration their bankers get. If their companies are not doing well the package changes to reflect that.  They are introducing a number of reforms aimed at reducing risk taking behavior.   The Times editorial goes on to point out that Obama has been too timid to do something similar.  What a shame.  Such smart guys without a clue about the role of risk taking behavior in our meltdown.  Without these huge bonuses these guys would never have played that game.

    A peep show of a novel in progress, (5.00 / 0) (#71)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 06:13:52 PM EST
    entitled: The Gulf: Between the Body of Water and the Body Politic, by kd--set Nov 10, 2012. Cabinet Secretaries of Interior, Commerce and Homeland Security are holding a celebratory reunion in New Orleans at Bourbon Street's Galatories Steak and Chop House (formerly of gourmet seafood fame), when the Interior Secretary's string tie became entwined with a bit of his Omaha strip steak producing a face as blue as the Gulf once was. The assembled Cabinet officers being, as usual, paralyzed by crisis, called out for help from Winghut, the private security firm provided by BP as a courtesy. However, BP rules still enforced by the Coast Guard prevented paramedics from approaching within 75 feet of the restaurant.  Tragedy was averted, however, by the quick thinking of the bus-boy, Corey Exit, a former owner of a charter fishing fleet, who dispersed the stricken Cabinet officers and administered the Heimlich maneuver.

    Meanwhile, Eric Holder and his DOJ investigators were relaxing at Napoleon's Bar on Chartres Street in the French Quarter after a busy day of overlooking BP negligence and crimes, reducing levies and drinking whisky and rye.

    Secretary Chu, in an attempt to repair relations with his  colleague, Jonathan Katz, whom he was forced to fire shortly after appointment to the Gulf Spill Committee for acute homophobia, invited Dr. Katz to the White House to observe Chu's award of the Presidential Medal of Honor. Unfortunately, the two scientists missed the event after being tied up in traffic due to a gay rights parade.

    Former Senator Graham and Co-chair of the President's Oil Spill Commission announced that the third meeting would be held as soon as possible, and apologized for the delay caused by Co-Chair Wm. Reilly's work with Dupont and Conoco.

    President Obama and Vice President Biden were re-elected by a huge majority, decisively defeating the Republican ticket of Bobby Jindahl/Joe Barton.  As Malcolm from Minneapolis stated in a representative exit poll comment, those Republican guys were just all about BP and oil and never cared about us.

    The New York Times (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by lentinel on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 06:15:39 PM EST
    is completely nuts.

    Yesterday they referred to the well in the Gulf that has been spewing oil for three months as the "runaway" well.

    Today, they referred to it as the "stricken" well.

    Poor little runaway well.
    Poor stricken little baby.

    It has been weally weally twying and all it gets is cwiticizm.

    A big thank you to all who were so supportive (5.00 / 4) (#86)
    by esmense on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 08:59:46 PM EST
    when I posted last week about my friend who was in need of medical and mental health care and shelter. She now is in a safe and supportive place, getting the care she needs. There are no guarantees, but I feel things have turned a corner. Her situation got quite a bit worse before getting better (too long a story to relate), but as imperfect, confusing and overwhelmed as the system is (and boy oh boy is it) there are many wonderful, dedicated people to thank for this outcome -- people who work very hard to do the best they can for our city's most vulnerable people.

    When I most recently spoke with my friend on the phone she sounded a bit irritated that people seemed to think she is in some way "disabled" -- but, what was finally, thankfully, missing from her voice, for the first time in a very long time, was the sound of overwhelming fear and panic.

    Good To Hear (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 09:49:55 PM EST
    Mental health is fragile for some... and finding a safe place to recoup is a godsend.

    Good to hear (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 12:54:23 AM EST
    She has a good friend in you.

    That is a relief to hear (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by shoephone on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 03:16:00 AM EST
    I'm glad she is being cared for and that you can get a break now too.

    Someday, you and I will have to meet for coffee and commiserate about the experience of getting help for such folks. I and my group of fellow "helpers" have been dealing with the homeless guy we know, trying to get him situated with shelter and much needed medical care. It's been quite a litle melodrama.


    I would love to do that, shoephone (none / 0) (#122)
    by esmense on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 08:22:57 AM EST
    Oh, GOOD!! (none / 0) (#106)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 12:10:19 AM EST
    Very, very glad to hear that.

    Thank you for letting us know. Keep us posted, will you?


    the hits keep coming (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 09:47:15 AM EST
    It is all about (none / 0) (#146)
    by Untold Story on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 09:57:32 AM EST
    'divide and conquer' - the British Empire excelled at this trait - maybe 'tea' with party (as in political party) is a Freudian slip?

    refudiate this (none / 0) (#147)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 10:05:48 AM EST
    Gores accuser (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 01:15:25 PM EST
    Holy Sh*T (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by squeaky on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 01:31:24 PM EST
    Roger Stone was involved????...  surprise, surprise!  

    What a busy guy.


    Anyone read 'The Kitchen House' ? (none / 0) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 02:48:04 PM EST
    Thinking about ordering it.

    You know what's funny (none / 0) (#11)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:07:39 PM EST
    I clicked on this not noticing it was Glenn Greenwald and scrolled up to get the author name to give credit before I posted it here...and of course it's Glenn.  This is a good one from Greenwald on Liz Fowler.  I don't know how big of a deal the "eliminating special interest groups" thing is to people now but of course the hypocrisy of it all makes me laugh (and cry).

    music and we both realized that our kids (12 and under) and many other kids we knew (say, 18 and under) all know and like pretty much the same music we grew up with 20-30+ years ago.

    Why don't kids have their own music anymore?

    they do (none / 0) (#17)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:20:40 PM EST
    I work with a building full of twentysomethings.
    I walk down the hall and hear Janis and Jimi and Santana.

    they do have music.  it just isnt as good.


    Clear channel (none / 0) (#18)
    by CST on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:23:12 PM EST
    that and hey, there was some good music made back in the day.  My dad listens to jazz and blues, which is also kind of before his time.

    If your kids are pre-college, they probably aren't getting exposed to the good, modern, underground stuff.  Thats when a lot of people expand their music horizons to include the less well known but good current music.

    Since clear channel has taken over the radio waves and concert halls most of the recent cr@p you hear is just that, cr@p.  So you gotta dig a little deeper to find the good stuff.  But it's out there.


    This is true (none / 0) (#20)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:25:54 PM EST
    M.I.A. is the only artist I can think of off the top of my head who does something that sounds new and gets played on the radio every so often.  La Roux doesn't count because when I first heard "Bulletproof" I was like "which 80s movie is this from?"

    I have a confession to make (none / 0) (#27)
    by CST on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:43:27 PM EST
    I really like "Bulletproof".  In my head, I know it's not that good of a song.  But it's so darn catchy.  Although not original at all.

    Honestly, I'm a little removed from the scene myself.  Most of the "new" music I listen to is from the early-mid '00s.  There was a really solid hip-hop scene back then (whatever happened to Jurrasic 5?).  The fact that none of it ever made it to the radio is another issue.


    Maybe so. My friend and I had this convo (none / 0) (#24)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:36:58 PM EST
    last night at our neighborhood "pub" which was jam packed with Pepperdine students all listening and singing along with the one-man band's classic rock hits.

    This was right after a convo with another neighbor about how when he first moved out here to LA he dated the daughter of a guy who played on a Tom Petty's "Damn the Torpedos" album and met her at one of it's recording sessions.

    And then, 5 minutes later, here's the guy on stage singing "Don't Do Me Like That" and every kid in there was singing along at the top of their lungs. They knew basically every song that guy sang.


    well and thinking about it (none / 0) (#29)
    by CST on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:45:44 PM EST
    I was certainly exposed to plenty of "old" music in college as well.

    What can I say - they made some good stuff.


    All good, it's not a "this is mine, (none / 0) (#34)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:49:59 PM EST
    go get yer own" type of thing, it's more of a "surely not all the great songs have already been done?"

    Although I will say that on the drive in (none / 0) (#26)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:41:20 PM EST
    to work this AM I put my radio on "scan" and every single song on every single station (except KCSN which I listen to almost exclusively now) was 20-30+ years old, so I guess kids do have little option, radio-wise.

    Kids don't listen to the radio, though (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:48:02 PM EST
    Radio is pretty much a lost cause (unless it's online; consider that many colleges just do online streaming radio instead of bothering to pay for a station).  As far as pubs go, IMO, cover bands are just a good way to bring in customers.  They're fun.  

    Radiohead is big...Muse is pretty big now...and Lady Gaga (ugh)


    I must admit I haven't been in a car with a 20-something driver since, well, when I was 2-something...

    most new cars (none / 0) (#40)
    by CST on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:55:59 PM EST
    have ipod jacks.  Also cds.  And even if your car doesn't have an ipod jack built in you can buy them to tune to your radio.

    Ipod/mp3s have certainly helped kill the radio - why listen to someone else's playlist when you can listen to your own?


    Fair enough. (none / 0) (#42)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:57:07 PM EST
    I stopped listening to the radio back in the (none / 0) (#44)
    by iceblinkjm on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 04:03:03 PM EST
    1990's when I got my first internet account. I won't speak for my whole generation but most of my friends own some sort of mp3 player or smart phone and tend to use those in their vehicles and listen to mp3's and streams.

    My husband and daughter have (none / 0) (#45)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 04:03:06 PM EST
    a drawer full of stuff that enables their different ipods to be played over the car radio.  Some of them I guess are better preforming than others, or they will misplace something and find it later and I end up with a drawer full of this stuff.

    CDs, ipods (none / 0) (#43)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:59:55 PM EST
    I really don't know anyone who puts on the radio consistently...I only do it when my CD player is dead.

    Artists not around 30 years ago that I think are innovative/worth listening to:  Bjork, The Magnetic Fields, Daft Punk.  Beck, M.I.A, Danger Mouse.  Outkast, The Roots, Mary J. Blige, Jay Z.  Radiohead.  Not that these are necessarily my favorites, but if I had to list big names that will probably define this musical period those would be among them.


    Beck I'm familar with, (none / 0) (#46)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 04:03:39 PM EST
    Mary J. Blige somewhat, Radiohead kinda too.

    I'm off to Youtube now with your list...


    I thought (none / 0) (#49)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 04:15:36 PM EST
    you were just needing some new good music ;)

    Out of all of them my own personal bias goes to Daft Punk and The Magnetic Fields.  Stephin Merritt of The Magnetic Fields is a musical genius and does songwriting in a very modern but formal way (he's called the "Cole Porter of his generation").  His boxset 69 Love Songs is awesome.  Or try "The Charm of the Highway Strip" which basically plays off Americana and classic rock themes.  I like electronic stuff (obviously!) so I like his earlier music as well.  He can do pretty much any genre.


    Listening to "All My Little Words" (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 04:19:19 PM EST
     and liking it.

    and considering (none / 0) (#51)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 04:16:17 PM EST
    your screen name, I think you will appreciate Stephin Merritt's sense of humor...

    I'd add (none / 0) (#50)
    by CST on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 04:15:53 PM EST
    Jurassic 5, Erykah Badu, Wyclef, the Killers, Moby, and Damien Marley to that list.

    I'd like to recommend Scissor Sisters, Beach (none / 0) (#54)
    by iceblinkjm on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 04:21:04 PM EST
    House, Grizzly Bear, She & Him, Midnight Juggernauts and Cut Copy.

    A couple smaller ones worth noting (none / 0) (#75)
    by Raskolnikov on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 06:41:33 PM EST
    Wilco makes some great albums.

    Avett Brothers for indie-emo-bluegrass

    The Hush Sound make some great indie-pop albums imo.

    Cake and Beck are good if you're into the post-modern pop thing.

    What I've noticed with most of my friends is that musical tastes are pretty wide-spread.  Of course we'll love throwing some classic 70s/80s songs on the Jukebox and everyone knows every Beatles song but with the Internet, and Pandora, and Rhapsody/Napster the diversification is pretty huge.  Not to mention those who go to specific music forums for electronica or any other less "popular" genres.  Top-40 radio stuff is pretty worthless.


    Depends on what you are looking at (none / 0) (#19)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:23:52 PM EST
    indie music is still quite popular and current.  For example, check out last.fm or hype machine.  What are they listening to?  I don't think I started buying my own music seriously until I was 13-14 anyway.

    A lot of the new indie stuff (none / 0) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:28:39 PM EST
    crosses all the lines in the house and we all listen to it.  My daughter and my husband though continue to be the must have music people, they introduce most "new" music into the family.

    I'd say that's an accurate statement. I am 33 and (none / 0) (#38)
    by iceblinkjm on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:53:59 PM EST
    my dad is in his late 50's and was around back in the "day" and he really does enjoy a lot of the "indie" groups I play. I don't find it surprising considering how the current artist in indie music cop so much from the 50's,60's,70 and 80's. Nostalgia seems to be the trend.

    Yeah, but that's kinda my point (none / 0) (#28)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:45:30 PM EST
    "new" stuff is hard-to-find indie music now.

    When I was a kid it seemed like every station played what is now called "classic rock."

    Where are the main-stream non-"indie" stations that play new music?

    Maybe CST is right, it's Clearchannel's fault.


    clearchannel/mp3 killed radio n/t (none / 0) (#33)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:48:46 PM EST
    country music. They do play the same friggin' songs over and over, but they're usually pretty contemporary.

    My daughter doesn't like my music (none / 0) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:26:36 PM EST
    She has always had her own EMO and RAP.  My son though likes listening to all the music I grew up with except the big hair metal bands.  He says that all they sing about is sex and they're gross :)

    Maybe video did kill the radio star.... (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:47:32 PM EST
    cuz there is loads of good new stuff out there, you just gotta go out and find it...unlike the classics from the golden age of American music which are delivered to their young ears to this day...along with today's pop crap that seems more visual than musical.

    Or the music from the golden age is just so damn good, how could the kids not like it better?


    Personally (none / 0) (#37)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:52:46 PM EST
    I don't care for music from the 60s (unless it's psychedelica a la July).  The 70s I like (Bowie, Jobriath, glam in general).  The 80s I like (The Smiths, various new wave) and technically that is what we are talking about ...the 70s and 80s.

    If you were going to look at the corporate hip hop/pop music kids have today it's lots of autotune.  And it sells.  And plays everywhere.  Honestly it makes me nostalgic for 50 cent...which is quite an achievement.


    MTV used to be vids wall-to-wall, now, nothing...

    "Reality" TV... (none / 0) (#113)
    by kdog on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 07:36:26 AM EST
    killed the video star...it's a vicous cycle:)

    anyway (none / 0) (#39)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 03:54:09 PM EST
    how can you question their music?  did your music do this?

    Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics Warning Parents About I-Dosing


    oh my (none / 0) (#52)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 04:18:58 PM EST
    this was too good to hide down in the Levi thread:

    Sarah Palin Wants Levi Johnston To Disappear

    Bristol Palin and Levi Johnston shocked the world when they announced they were engaged  again. The on-again, off-again couple seemed happy despite Sarah Palin's obvious disapproval of their reunion. It's no surprise considering her future son-in-law has betrayed and bad-mouthed the Palin clan on numerous occasions. According to a Palin insider, Sarah has already threatened him if he ever messes with her family again.

    "Levi did everything he could to destroy Sarah and her family. He has accused Sarah of being a bad mother, a bad wife and a bad leader. How can he walk back into their life like nothing happened? He should think again," a Palin insider tells me. "He may have won Bristol back, but he will never gain the trust of Sarah. She doesn't forgive and forget."

    But it all comes back to politics. A Republican insider tells me Sarah is worried that her loose-lipped son-in-law will continue to ruin her political career and the public's perception of the Palin family.

    I wonder if (none / 0) (#55)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 04:23:19 PM EST
    I could claim the body?

    Perhaps he shouldn't go a shootin (none / 0) (#60)
    by Untold Story on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 05:03:21 PM EST
    with her real soon, do you think?  Or take her up on counting the actual number of polar bear still in existence - especially at feeding time!

    Perhaps if she (none / 0) (#81)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 08:13:11 PM EST
    stays out of his life, he'll stay out of hers....

    How many people in America want her (none / 0) (#98)
    by Untold Story on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 09:51:41 PM EST
    to stay out of their lives but there she is - almost every day!  Good luck with that Levi.

    a straw for Mel (none / 0) (#56)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 04:41:21 PM EST
    Did Someone Mess With Mel Gibson's Audio Recordings?

    Forensic Experts Say Mel Gibson's Rants May Have Been Edited and Pieced Together

    I dont know about you but I am on the very edge of my seat to find out how some of that vile stuff could possibly be taken out of context.

    Yeah (none / 0) (#58)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 04:54:05 PM EST
    There is no way with 100% certainty that we can be sure that it was actually Mel Gibson in any of his movies either....

    Really, and for all we know (none / 0) (#61)
    by Untold Story on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 05:06:08 PM EST
    he may just be another actor without a pulse!

    Dick Cheney at night? (none / 0) (#68)
    by DFLer on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 05:46:10 PM EST
    Like I said a few days ago, she's (none / 0) (#78)
    by observed on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 07:51:49 PM EST
    the money-grubbing villainess in this story.
    Sorry, but Mel is not a match for a 40 year old sophisticated Russian woman.
    Yes, Mel has problems, Oksana being one of them at this point.

    How do you know this? (none / 0) (#88)
    by hairspray on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 09:02:53 PM EST
    It's my opinion, just like anyone else's. (none / 0) (#90)
    by observed on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 09:07:20 PM EST
    From what I've read, she is manipulating the stories about Mel to the maximum extent. I'm skeptical because she has waited months to lay certain charges on Mel.

    We'll see what happens. Remember,
    Michael Jackson was innocent of the molestation charges brought against him. There are definitely  people who take advantage of weird or unpleasant rich people to make a buck.


    I'm, sorry but unless (none / 0) (#105)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 12:07:12 AM EST
    she hired a Mel Gibson impersonator to do those tapes, I don't care how edited they are or what her motivations are/were or how long she waited, etc.  His behavior is vile, disgusting, threatening and potentially violent, and there's no getting around it.  I find them absolutely terrifying to hear. Not to mention I need to go take a long shower to get the stink of the ugliness off of me.

    There were no tapes of any Michael Jackson misbehavior (nor could there have been, IMO).


    It doesn't matter if they were edited??? (none / 0) (#116)
    by observed on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 07:46:30 AM EST
    I"m sure it will matter to the police and to a jury.

    have you actually heard the tapes (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 09:00:22 AM EST
    I would love to know how being "gang raped by a bunch of ni**ers" could be taken "out of context".

    what do you suppose would be the context for that?


    Every statement... (none / 0) (#127)
    by kdog on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 09:06:18 AM EST
    has a context...I'd bet the context here is so raging mad at your old lady that you say the most disgusting hurtful thing you can think of while not thinking clearly.

    That being said, it does say something about Mel that the statement you mentioned was the first thing that popped into his head.

    What baffles me is who takes this kind of verbal and (alleged) physical abuse and sticks around to make greatest hits tapes?  Can't wrap my head around that one.


    well (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 09:12:47 AM EST
    like I said. I would love to hear it.

    sorry, I dont care how mad you are if you say stuff like that it says more about you than the person you are mad about.

    as far as who would do it. maybe someone who has seen behind the mask of this incredibly famous "nice guy" movie star and wants the rest of us to see it too.


    Maybe she's said worse. (none / 0) (#132)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 09:20:15 AM EST
    Maybe she's just as despicable.

    I see (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 09:23:21 AM EST
    so according to you if someone is despicable its ok to tell "if they get gang raped by a bunch of ni**ers its their own fault" is ok.

    got it.


    Ya, that's what I said. You got it. (none / 0) (#138)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 09:25:59 AM EST
    Or somebody... (none / 0) (#134)
    by kdog on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 09:22:58 AM EST
    looking to get paid.

    If you've ever been deeply in love and have it go terribly wrong, you know how you can say some nasty sh*t you don't really mean while blinded by anger and hurt.  Lord knows I've said sh*t out of character I deeply regret while feeling scourned by a love.  Whether that type of thing is in play here, who knows...Mel's track record ain't the best, that's for sure.


    k (none / 0) (#136)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 09:24:50 AM EST
    that would cut it once.
    there seems to be an endless supply of tape of THIS episode.

    forget the others that went before this.

    at what point does it become obvious that the person doing this is simply a bigoted a$$hole?


    Sure looks that way... (none / 0) (#141)
    by kdog on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 09:41:30 AM EST
    but the wife gives me the creeps too, in other ways...playing J Edgar Hoover, whats up with that?  I don't see it as a public service exposing the dark side of Mel Gibson...he's not police chief or an elected official, he's an actor...who the f*ck cares?  Hateful bigots are a dime a dozen.

    I think a lot of people (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 09:45:50 AM EST
    who would other wise pay to see his movies would care.
    I really think his career is pretty much over.
    at least for a few years.

    about her, she gives me the creeps.  afaiac that has absolutely nothing to do with the almost unbelievably vile stuff coming out of his mouth.


    also I gotta say (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 09:51:54 AM EST
    and this is not really directed at you.  you are the most consistent poster in these threads.

    but it is interesting that the same people who were ready to castrate Polanski are so ready to point to this woman and say "it all her fault".

    it amazes me.  its no different than saying 'she had on a very short skirt, she was asking for it'
    'she is a mean ole russian woman and she manipulated him into saying all this vile crap'?

    how about we let him take responsibility for what come out of his pie hole no matter how despicable she is.


    I seperate the artist from the art... (none / 0) (#149)
    by kdog on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 10:09:51 AM EST
    I'll still see Polanski and Gibson movies...no matter how scummy they are as people...if the art looks promising.

    I might as well (none / 0) (#150)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 10:17:09 AM EST
    but I dont think we are the norm

    Ain't that the truth! :) (none / 0) (#153)
    by kdog on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 10:22:17 AM EST
    If you're gonna administer a purity test before enjoying an album, movie, painting, sculpture...you're gonna miss out on a lot of great art.

    Yeah (none / 0) (#169)
    by squeaky on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 01:20:18 PM EST
    Last Temptation of Christ, was a top hit among the gay s&m crowd. CLoseup shots of tortured Beefcake on a cross for hours, it was a cult classic among that crowd...  

    And Gibson and his right wing version of Christian hate, has no love for his homo admirers.... but apparently less love for women.  

    One can only imagine, that when his career tanks he will wind up paying the rent in b grade gay porn as a perpetual bottom.


    You're talikng about (5.00 / 2) (#178)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 04:20:09 PM EST
    The Passion of the (alleged) Christ..

    Kazantzakis and Scorcese's Last Temptation - the best of the Jesus films, imo - was the one the Gibsons, protestant fundies and Vatican pederasts all picketed because of it's "blasphemous portrayal".


    Yeah (none / 0) (#181)
    by squeaky on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 04:28:40 PM EST
    Thanks for the correction....  It was the Passion of Christ which GIbson funded entirely himself, and profited...  

    The Last Temptation of Christ by Martin Scorsese was a great film.

    The Passion of Christ a gay snuff film with lots of S&M.  


    "as a perpetual bottom" (none / 0) (#170)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 01:22:50 PM EST
    if there is a god . . .

    never saw the movie (none / 0) (#171)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 01:24:02 PM EST
    not particularly into that but my sister went with a church group to see it and walked out.

    she said it was a two hour snuff movie.


    CORRECTION (none / 0) (#182)
    by squeaky on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 04:30:23 PM EST
    Should read The Passion Of Christ

    not the last Temptation of Christ.

    Huge difference.

    H/T jondee...


    yeah (none / 0) (#184)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 05:16:38 PM EST
    I missed it too.
    definitely what I meant.  loved LTC

    She creeps me out too (none / 0) (#144)
    by waldenpond on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 09:50:48 AM EST
    Seems neither one should have the child.  He's disgusting, but she comes across as manipulating an ill person for financial gain.

    that never got recorded...

    what she said to him (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 09:14:09 AM EST
    who cares.  she is not a mulitmillion dollar role model.

    and again.  give me a for instance that would justify the above.


    Not my point. (none / 0) (#131)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 09:18:53 AM EST
    what exactly (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 09:25:45 AM EST
    is your point

    No, I'm done with you. (none / 0) (#139)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 09:28:35 AM EST
    Not sure which prescription you forgot to take this AM, but I'm not playing your BS games today.

    maybe you should (none / 0) (#140)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 09:33:59 AM EST
    try actually listening to the tapes

    because clearly you have not


    Why should she need to doctor a tape? (none / 0) (#188)
    by observed on Sun Jul 18, 2010 at 03:15:52 PM EST
    That is the question an intelligent person asks himself.

    Didn't she rip someone else off (none / 0) (#96)
    by Untold Story on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 09:48:11 PM EST
    just before Mel - and he knew all about it - but, of course, he was different!

    Can you imagine how happy his wife must have been that finally she got that wild man out of her life in a 'peaceful' way!  Wow - must have felt like she won the lottery!


    My home answering machines have never recorded even 1/10 as well.

    And she wasn't alone during the recording. At one point early in the, I think, 3rd released recording, she obviously is talking to something else when she asks "what is he talking about?"


    A public service announcement. (none / 0) (#65)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 05:17:17 PM EST
    In case you lose your corkscrew.

    How to a bottle of wine with a shoe.

    Man, oh, man (none / 0) (#70)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 06:05:30 PM EST
    I'd love to see him try that with a bottle of champagne!

    Have done it myself, (none / 0) (#73)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 06:16:30 PM EST
    albeit just pounding the bottom of the bottle on a tree trunk, no shoe necessary during my misspent youth...

    Next bottle of wine..... (none / 0) (#74)
    by vicndabx on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 06:39:16 PM EST
    I'm trying it.

    You can use an unsharpened pencil (none / 0) (#76)
    by andgarden on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 06:50:04 PM EST
    to push the cork in.

    Working Stiffs v Pandering Pols (none / 0) (#99)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 09:57:18 PM EST
    PHOENIX--A lawyer for a Phoenix police officer told a federal court Thursday his client could be sued for racial profiling if he enforces Arizona's new immigration law. It is the first hearing in a series of legal challenges filed over the controversial crackdown which has divided law enforcement in the state and across the country.

    Officer David Salgado, a 19-year veteran of the Phoenix police department, could also lose his job if he fails to enforce the new law, his attorney said.


    Another lawsuit challenging the racist AZ anti-immigrant law.
    This one by someone who would rather fight crime than get votes from right wing bigots.

    Plame (none / 0) (#101)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 10:20:45 PM EST
    Rove Quote: (none / 0) (#102)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 10:25:14 PM EST
    The attacks on Mr. Bush poisoned America's political discourse.



    Howl (none / 0) (#103)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 11:14:35 PM EST
    Great trailer... looks like it will be a great movie.

    I hate getting older (none / 0) (#110)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 01:03:48 AM EST
    I used to be able to sleep through a train wreck.  But now the Roomba that I love so much also wakes me up when it takes off and we are all supposed to be asleep.  I don't let it into my room either during those cleanings, but I still hear it.

    I have the iRobot (none / 0) (#133)
    by Untold Story on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 09:21:49 AM EST
    think it is the same thing - had to get that to keep up with Big Dog's shedding!

    He (I call it a he as, typical of male, only cleans the easy stuff) - well, he, seems to get tangled up in wires, so I have to unplug everything before I set him free.

    But, honestly, isn't it just the greatest!


    I do luv it (none / 0) (#151)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 10:21:13 AM EST
    It saves me a lot of cleanup time in the daylight hours.

    wow (none / 0) (#148)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 10:07:41 AM EST

    He's on MSNBC right now (none / 0) (#156)
    by waldenpond on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 10:52:44 AM EST
    He's with  Cameran? attacking Jealous right now.  The black woman wants to know how we get past snarky letters and have a dicussion.

    Williams: We will move forward by Jealous stopping the lying!  Impossible for their to be a racist element in the Tea Party, it's about civil rights.  The racist signs were brought by anti-Tea Party org.  Buy my book.


    just reading this on reason.com (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 10:57:03 AM EST
    But my comrades on the left, those denouncing the absurd NBPP story as a "new Southern Strategy," those expressing outrage that conservative blogs and media would exploit the lunatic fringe for electoral gain (what has D.C. become??), might have noticed an uptick in stories on supposed Tea Party racism. Surely the persistence of such stories couldn't be motivated by politics?

    the apologists never sleep.


    cool (none / 0) (#152)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 10:21:31 AM EST
    more Levi and Bristol "silly reality show news"
    from TMZ

    Levi and Bristol -- Gunnin' for Reality Deal

    7/16/2010 12:10 AM PDT by TMZ Staff

    Levi Johnston and Bristol Palin are already looking to bring outsiders into their upcoming marriage -- in the form of a reality TV crew ... this according to a source very familiar with the negotiations.
    TMZ has learned the couple has been shopping "multiple reality shows" around town -- some of the ideas involve the couple AND their two-year-old son, Tripp.

    We're told the leading concept involves all three people -- and will focus on "parenting issues."

    It's unclear if the show would be based in Alaska ... or if Bristol's mom, Sarah Palin, would be involved in some capacity.

    It looks like the couple could strike a deal in the near future -- we're told negotiations are "ongoing."

    this is just great (none / 0) (#154)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 10:28:35 AM EST
    BP faced a new outcry Thursday about whether the Scottish and British governments sought to smooth BP's oil exploration contract talks with Libya by releasing prisoners, including the man convicted of bombing the Pan Am plane that went down over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988. The bombing killed 270 people, including 189 Americans.

    havent heard much about this guy lately.  hey, all you who thought it was a good idea to release this guy who had six months to live three years ago, still a good idea?

    Compassionate release... (none / 0) (#155)
    by kdog on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 10:47:00 AM EST
    is always a good idea...the guy still has cancer.

    The fact BP had a place in the prisoner release negotiations or if oil money was the reason for the release...that is troubling.


    does he (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 10:53:40 AM EST
    in light of this how much of any of this can we believe?

    True... (none / 0) (#159)
    by kdog on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 10:58:52 AM EST
    wouldn't put it past BP to inject the guy with cancer so they could get him released and get their Libya contract...I mean we're talking about an outfit involved in the CIA backed Iranian coup way back when...their tentacles are everywhere.

    my coworkers are insane (none / 0) (#160)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 11:15:06 AM EST
    morning post on the newsgroups:

    I have a friend coming to visit in September and long story short, he's
    bringing three copies of Shaq-Fu for Genesis, which is one of the worst
    games ever made.

    If there's interest in the office, we're thinking of holding a Shaq-Fu
    tournament- the top three players get to destroy a copy of Shaq-Fu in
    whatever manner they deem most pleasing.

    this is so pathetic (none / 0) (#161)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 11:51:38 AM EST

    Vatican says women priests a 'crime against faith'
    The ordination of women as Roman Catholic priests has been made a "crime against the faith" by the Vatican and subject to discipline by its watchdog.

    The new rules issued by the Vatican  puts attempts at ordaining women among the "most serious crimes" alongside paedophilia and will be handled by investigators from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), considered the successor to the Inquisition.

    honestly, I cant even scrape up a snide remark.

    The Vatican on Friday denied accusations (none / 0) (#162)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 12:06:03 PM EST
    (Reuters) - The Vatican on Friday denied accusations that it viewed the ordination of women as priests and the sexual abuse of minors by clerics as equally criminal.

    On Thursday, the Vatican issued a document making sweeping revisions to its laws on sexual abuse, extending the period in which charges can be filed against priests in church courts and broadening the use of fast-track procedures to defrock them.

    But while it dealt mostly with pedophilia, it also codified the "attempted ordination of a woman" to the priesthood as one of the most serious crimes against Church law.

    The inclusion of both issues in the same document caused a stir among some groups around the world, particularly those favoring a female priesthood.

    But Monsignor Charles Scicluna, an official in the Vatican's doctrinal department, said there was no attempt to make women's ordination and pedophilia comparable crimes under canon (Church) law.

    "They are in the same document but this does not put them on the same level or assign them the same gravity," said Scicluna, who helped formulate the revisions.

    While sexual abuse was a "crime against morality," the attempt to ordain a woman was a "crime against a sacrament," he said, referring to Holy Orders (the priesthood). The revisions also updated crimes against the faith such as heresy.

    "This should not be interpreted as considering all these crimes to be equal," he said. "They are crimes of a different nature".

    oh good (none / 0) (#163)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 12:38:17 PM EST
    so everything is true except the equivalency of pedophiles.



    btw (none / 0) (#164)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 12:40:50 PM EST
    Is it because women can't be 'defrocked'? (none / 0) (#179)
    by Untold Story on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 04:21:20 PM EST
    she would have to be stripped? (none / 0) (#180)
    by Untold Story on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 04:25:19 PM EST
    jihad monkeys (none / 0) (#174)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 01:40:55 PM EST
    it doesnt get better than this.

    from the NYPost

    Monkey see, monkey kill.

    Taliban terrorists have a secret weapon to destroy the infidel American enemy -- monkey marksmen.

    it earns a worst person.  complete with Hong Kong video.

    Yeah (none / 0) (#175)
    by squeaky on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 01:46:10 PM EST
    And the great irony is that they got the idea from us, that is the US. We trained monkeys to kill in Viet Nam war...  

    I thought they got it here (none / 0) (#176)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 01:55:18 PM EST

    oops (none / 0) (#177)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 01:55:46 PM EST
    Obviously, you kid (none / 0) (#186)
    by Untold Story on Sat Jul 17, 2010 at 08:24:29 AM EST
    Not Kidding (none / 0) (#187)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 17, 2010 at 12:55:58 PM EST