Sabato on Palin: What's He Drinking?

Sarah Palin was in Denver last night, speaking to her usual fringe following. Political scientist Larry Sabato seems to be drinking the kool-aid:

"She's avant-garde. She's a feminist. She cuts a dashing figure...Whether you love her or you hate her, you don't go to sleep when Sarah Palin comes on."

No, those of us with brains change the channel or turn off the TV. And just how is a reactionary like Palin considered "avant-garde?" And a Feminist? No, how about just crassly opportunistic.

Now back to regular programming.

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    Time for your (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by jondee on Sun May 23, 2010 at 03:24:13 PM EST
    urine test, Mr Sabato..

    Puts me in mind of Peggie Noonan talking about how Palin "hit it completely out of the park" during the debates..

    I thought these people were anti-drug?

    And see mcjoan on this subject at DK. (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by oculus on Sun May 23, 2010 at 03:41:52 PM EST
    Maybe Sabato (Univ. of VA) resents those faculty lounge feminists?

    She's like Dubya. Every time she opens her (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Angel on Sun May 23, 2010 at 03:42:09 PM EST
    mouth you know she's going to say something stupid.  It doesn't take repeated viewings to know what she's going to say, except that like Dubya, she'll create some new idiotic way of saying it.  The woman is void of any common sense solutions to today's problems.  Everything with her is of the lock and load variety.    

    I Guess That Perhaps Sabato (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by The Maven on Sun May 23, 2010 at 03:55:00 PM EST
    comes from the unenlightened school of thought that Palin's simultaneous pursuit of a "career" makes her de facto a feminist, since if she weren't, she simply would have stayed at home raising her children and being supportive of Todd.  Quod erat demonstrandum.

    As for avant garde . . . was Palin wearing her faux-motorcycle jacket?  That could be viewed as being pretty hep, or whatever the kids are calling it these days.

    Sad to think that this is the sort of thing that passes for astute political analysis.

    I hate to think what Sabato is doing (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Anne on Sun May 23, 2010 at 04:28:46 PM EST
    when he's "not sleeping."

    But maybe Heidi Klum could ask him to guest judge on Project Runway; he's just described fashion, not a potential national office-holder.

    "She's avant-garde. She's a feminist." (5.00 / 0) (#13)
    by desertswine on Sun May 23, 2010 at 05:25:35 PM EST
    That sounds like the whiskey talking.

    Or his... (5.00 / 0) (#14)
    by szielinski on Sun May 23, 2010 at 05:39:32 PM EST

    from some very remote locale.. (none / 0) (#15)
    by jondee on Sun May 23, 2010 at 05:53:33 PM EST
    Distance...smistance (none / 0) (#21)
    by szielinski on Sun May 23, 2010 at 07:20:33 PM EST
    Just playing Devil(ette?)'s advocate here... (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by EL seattle on Sun May 23, 2010 at 06:10:37 PM EST
    "She's a feminist" - The Denver Post: In the past several weeks, she also has taken to boosting conservative women to office -- a role many observers say the Republican Party desperately needs.  "It's certainly been the weakness in the Republican Party, they haven't done that well among women," said Gary Jacobson, a political-science professor at the University of California, San Diego.

    If there can be such a thing as a 'conservative feminist', maybe Palin qualifies?

    "She's avant-garde." - The Denver Post: "In some ways, she seems more party-line than she was before," said Lu Busse, chair of the 9.12 Project Colorado Coalition.  "People are scratching their heads; these endorsements don't seem to match up. . . . She's an enigma, and she's inconsistent. When she doesn't pick the most conservative one in the race, well, then I don't understand."

    What is avant-garde politics anyway?  Is it surrealist or dada?  Is it the power of performace art, magnified by both the new media and the old media?  When words like "enigma" and "inconsistent" are used to describe any successful performer or artist, it's usually not too much of a stretch to apply the phrase 'avant-garde' to the enterprise as well.

    Maybe someone at some point will determine that Palin is actually an artiste of the slightly funny deal.  Then some heads will really start to spin uncontrollably.


    There can be conservative feminists (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by Cream City on Sun May 23, 2010 at 07:10:35 PM EST
    yes -- a good explanation is in Nancy Cott's book, Grounding of Modern Feminism.

    However, Palin is not one.

    A feminist -- radical, liberal, moderate, conservative, social, etc. -- is equally, if you will, a masculinist.  That is, feminism is a belief in equality of the sexes/genders.

    Palin does not support gender equality, based on several counts, but here's the obvious one:  the right to privacy, the basis for Roe v. Wade.  She thinks women should not have the same right to privacy in medical decisions that men do.

    Not a feminist.


    No, see, you're not allowed (none / 0) (#23)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:56:25 PM EST
    to call yourself a feminist unless you're politically left of center and pro-choice.  In every other respect, as far as I can tell, Palin is by far the strongest feminist we've ever had in a prominent public role.

    But see, she can't be a feminist because all feminists, by definition, must be pro-choice.


    Well, there are Republican (none / 0) (#27)
    by Cream City on Mon May 24, 2010 at 01:12:58 AM EST
    women and men who are feminists and pro-choice.

    I know some.  I don't know quite how they reconcile it all in their minds, but they do.


    I have a problem with a so-called feminist (none / 0) (#30)
    by Anne on Mon May 24, 2010 at 08:57:22 AM EST
    who says, essentially, "women can be and do whatever they choose, but they cannot and should not be allowed to choose abortion."

    Because as soon as you make women cede dominion over their bodies to some authority figure, you have placed them in a position where they are not equal.  It says, in effect, that having babies is more important than the women themselves are, and if that's a woman's highest and best function, what does it matter that she can't be paid the same as men, or that she is treated as less competent or not serious about her work?

    Yes, I know what her record as governor is, but this woman is not, now, talking choice, she is rallying the troops to put more laws on the books to end abortion.  


    I don't agree with her (none / 0) (#34)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue May 25, 2010 at 07:45:35 AM EST
    but that's not what she's saying.  She's saying a new life is more important.  There are an awful lot of people who fervently, sincerely believe a fetus is a life.  If I believed that, I'd be vehemently anti-abortion myself.

    There are also lots and lots of anti-choice forces for whom abortion is, as you so rightly say, just a way to control female sexuality and keep women in a subordinate role.  Palin is simply not one of them.  She's pro-contraception and she's pro sex education (including but not restricted to abstinence).


    Sarah Palin is entitled to her own (none / 0) (#35)
    by Anne on Tue May 25, 2010 at 09:41:03 AM EST
    opinions and beliefs on the subject of abortion, and I applaud her for being pro-contraception and pro-sex education - that's more than many in the pro-life movement are comfortable with.

    But, I believe - as I assume you, do, too - that these are personal beliefs, unique to each woman, to each circumstance.

    It matters to us, viewing Palin as a potential candidate for some kind of national office, or as a representative of a political party/movement, what she thinks about abortion and choice, because of the potential power and influence she may have to see her beliefs legislated for all to live by.

    She wants Roe v. Wade overturned, and the decisions about the legality of abortion to reside in the states - which means a hardship, as we know, for women living in states where repression rules, who cannot afford to travel out of state - in some cases far out of state - for an abortion.

    How is pushing for states to have the right to subjugate women in this way at all feminist?  Where is the empowerment for women in that circumstance?

    She is not wrong to believe that abortion is wrong, but she is not advancing the equality and empowerment of women by seeking to have states have dominion over women's bodies instead of the women themselves; in my opinion, that makes our reproductive system the property of the state.  Is that a feminist position?  Not in my book.


    To Palin and others (none / 0) (#36)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue May 25, 2010 at 11:35:49 PM EST
    it's not a matter of women's control over their bodies, it's a matter of the life of the fetus.  If you believe a fetus is a life, then there is no issue of control over women's bodies.

    I don't happen to share that view, but I believe it's a legitimate view and I'm bothered by the insistence of some on categorizing it as something it isn't.

    As I say, if I believed abortion was murder, I hope I'd be on the barricades at Planned Parenthood clinics myself.


    Palin on his Payroll? (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by squeaky on Sun May 23, 2010 at 06:11:56 PM EST
    In June 2009, it was revealed that Sabato's Center for Politics had been the recipient of over seven million dollars in earmark money from Congressman Virgil Goode, whom Sabato predicted would win re-election in 2008, despite declining poll numbers; Goode ultimately lost the race by a small margin.[13] Some observers have suggested that Sabato should have revealed his financial connection to Goode or recused himself from making predictions about the race.[14]


    If anything she is closer to Kitsch....   fascists have used the avant-garde as a way of drawing in youth... artists etc. but in sprit were always regressive..

    Considering that the neocons took a hard look at post-structuralism and nazi progaganda techniques, perhaps now they are looking at Marinetti and Mussolini's co-opting the futurist avant garde..

    Wouldn't be surprised if Sabato is on her payroll.

    One of my fav lectures (none / 0) (#26)
    by nycstray on Sun May 23, 2010 at 11:02:01 PM EST
    from my one of my fav foundation instructors was titled "Kitsch, Schlock, Camp". She seems to be able to morph into all 3 on any given day . . . You should see the slides that accompanied the talk  ;)

    dr. sabato (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by cpinva on Mon May 24, 2010 at 03:52:52 AM EST
    started going down hill years ago, when he began to actually believe his own PR. he became, and is, one of the "village people", not to be taken seriously, much like palin herself.

    i'm amused by ms. palin's (and others of her ilk) assertion that "common sense" measures will resolve the issues currently facing the nation; they never actually identify what those measures might be, and how they would be implemented. the term does resonate with the "simple solution" crowd though.

    From reading his remarks, I'd say he is (none / 0) (#2)
    by oculus on Sun May 23, 2010 at 03:30:41 PM EST
    wowed by her good looks.

    Just curious (none / 0) (#3)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun May 23, 2010 at 03:33:19 PM EST
    How do you know what she is if you turn the TV off every time she comes on?

    (disclaimer-- I don't share one micro-iota of her political views, just askin')

    Sabata needs some hormone suppressors (none / 0) (#4)
    by bobalaska on Sun May 23, 2010 at 03:40:07 PM EST
    Sabato used to live in Alaska, and maybe he fell in love with Palin during a visit to Wasilla.  He left before she lied about everything- family travel at state expense; collecting per diem while at home; conducting state business secretly on private email accounts, and then quitting.

    Avant-garde? No

    P.A.T.H.O.L.O.G.I.C.A.L.  YES

    I just don't get it. At all. (none / 0) (#9)
    by Dadler on Sun May 23, 2010 at 04:55:44 PM EST
    Palinpalooza, that is.  Except in the most pejorative sense. (Which means I do get it, many would say, myself perhaps among them.) That, IMHO, the dearth of critical thinking skills in her followers is so glaring, only makes it impossibly difficult to "respect" that team's game. Or take it seriously. But we must, to a degree, I suppose, lest it be allowed to "thrive" unchecked. One element of her brand of reactionary populism is an appeal to anti-big money sentiment that progressives can easily co-opt and sell more humanely and rationally.

    My conclusion (none / 0) (#33)
    by Lora on Mon May 24, 2010 at 02:45:09 PM EST
    It's orchestrated.  Brainwashing taken to the next level.  In my opinion.

    95% (none / 0) (#11)
    by Dadler on Sun May 23, 2010 at 05:06:30 PM EST
    It's just too dangerous for him.  He can have a couple of sips of diet coke. And he has to wear a caffeine ankle monitor.  

    Palin could be a member of the avant garde (none / 0) (#12)
    by szielinski on Sun May 23, 2010 at 05:07:15 PM EST
    The fascist avant garde....

    BP livecam showing spill increase (none / 0) (#18)
    by waldenpond on Sun May 23, 2010 at 06:28:02 PM EST
    Just put this on the open thread.... something (bad news) is going on down below.  People are watching the livecam footage and noticed activity beginning this am.  'explosions?' sea floor changes, sediment, possible increase in flow.


    Does anyone else know of additional sites that are monitoring this?  The thought a top kill might not matter at this point is bad news.

    And the Atlantis platform has not been (none / 0) (#19)
    by observed on Sun May 23, 2010 at 06:49:53 PM EST
    shut down, either.

    and Top Kill is now delayed (none / 0) (#25)
    by waldenpond on Sun May 23, 2010 at 09:44:33 PM EST
    BP has just announced the top kill will be delayed for at least another day ... for 'testing.'  duh.

    Palin hasn't been getting the publicity she used (none / 0) (#22)
    by WS on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:50:12 PM EST
    to get.  She's been saying some crazy stuff lately like when she made comments on the Arizona law, Rand Paul, BP, and other controversies but her comments hasn't been reported on as much lately.  Compare that with the her "death panel" lie during the health care debate and her comments during her book tour and you'll notice that the media isn't as fixated on her as they used to be.  

    Palin will fade out (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:58:58 PM EST
    and probably fairly soon.  Her popularity (and media appeal) overwhelmingly has to do with personality and novelty, and both of those get old after a fairly short while.

    Not to mention she does almost no interviews anymore except for Fox, where she's now on the payroll.


    She keeps (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by jbindc on Mon May 24, 2010 at 11:57:30 AM EST
    Dropping in numbers even among Republican straw polls. The last I saw a few weeks ago, she finished 5th behind Newtie, Huck, Romney, and Pawlenty.

    She will fizzle.


    Palin and dead fish (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by szielinski on Mon May 24, 2010 at 12:04:04 PM EST
    They both smell after a short while.

    Palin-Coulter 2012!. That would (none / 0) (#29)
    by observed on Mon May 24, 2010 at 06:00:08 AM EST
    get some attention.