Monday Morning Open Thread

E.J. Dionne writes:

Democrats face problems not from right-wingers who have never voted for them but from a lack of energy among their own supporters and from dispirited independents and moderates who look to government to solve problems but have little confidence in its ability to deliver.

And the solution to these problems is?

This is an Open Thread.

< Politics, Presidential Power And The Limits Of The Regulatory State | What To Believe? >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Display: Sort:
    Any one else remember it this way? (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by ruffian on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 10:20:33 AM EST
    So this morning I heard Cokie Roberts on NPR say that Bush turned to pleasing his base after his attempts to work bipartisanly with the Dems in Congress failed.

    Funny, that's not how I remember it.

    I can't decide which I like least about her (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Kimberley on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 10:43:54 AM EST
    Her damnable obedience, or her eagerness to propagandize? Tough call.

    My guess is (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by lilburro on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 10:22:32 AM EST
    doing anything at all about unemployment would help.  Ezra quoting Romer:

    My first and most fundamental point is that when it comes to the economy, we are very far from normal. The unemployment rate is currently 9.7 percent. I find it depressing that some observers talk about unemployment remaining high for an extended period with resignation, rather than with a sense of urgency to find news ways to address the problem. Behind this fatalism, there seems to be a view that perhaps the high unemployment reflects structural changes or other factors not easily amenable to correction. High unemployment in this view is simply "the new normal." I disagree.

    As John Cole memorably said, Republicans are a suicide cult.  The Obama Admin just needs to go go go without them.

    The solutions are obvious (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Kimberley on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 11:23:09 AM EST
    But, the Democratic Party's propensity for counter-intuitive judgment being what it is...

    The safe bet is that the Democratic Party will conclude that it's wisest to keep governing to please trans-national corporations on the economic front and pursue social and foreign policies that would thrill the backwoods cast of Deliverance.

    And why not? It pays well.

    It is the only thing paying right now :) (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 11:26:17 AM EST
    Cuz I'm not :)

    I'm still steamed too (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Kimberley on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 12:45:39 PM EST
    And then I see stuff like this and I realize there will be no relief for any sane American anytime soon.

    Democrats regularly disappoint me, they even infuriate me from time to time, but the people that make that kind of news are the true, full-throated agents of status quo political poison--from the money men to the foot soldiers.

    I don't know what reasonable men and women are supposed to do with this. I want to protect and defend the people I've voted for (as imperfect as they are) from this lunacy, on the one hand. And I feel compelled, for the country's sake, to be an honest citizen and see if there's any way to address the imperfections of our political machinery on the other. But in an environment like this, I feel like I can't do both without giving dangerous kooks the veneer of legitimacy.

    I'm in a real ethical bind here, with Hume in one ear and Kant in the other...


    Our ugly racism (none / 0) (#54)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 06:49:33 PM EST
    There has been an upside for me, at least it isn't so hidden in the South now and everyone jumping up and saying that they are from the South and they aren't like that.  Now we can just point and say, "Look, there goes our racism" cuz it is fully on display now.  They've taken the gloves off.  It is almost a relief for me and the debate about how NOT RACIST the South is isn't something I have to sigh about.

    Realism? (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 11:41:11 AM EST
    People who think that Obama is the second coming can be written off as in the bag, just as people who believe that he is Hitler, BushCo on steriods, or just an empty suit. That group, many of who comment here, can be written off because no matter what Obama does, it will not matter to them.

    Solution: realism. BTD is a good model for that. Agitate when needed per policy, and clap when he panders to you.

    THis is fairly close to spam by now: (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 11:48:13 AM EST
    That group, many of who comment here, can be written off because no matter what Obama does, it will not matter to them.

    Spam? (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 11:59:22 AM EST
    ....but from a lack of energy among their own supporters and from dispirited independents and moderates who look to government to solve problems but have little confidence in its ability to deliver.[bolding mine]

    What do you think this means? and What is your solution?


    Stop the insanity (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by observed on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 11:54:35 AM EST
    That comment is pure baiting.

    Really? (none / 0) (#18)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 11:59:57 AM EST
    What do you think the solution is?  

    Leave. (3.00 / 2) (#21)
    by observed on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 12:03:41 PM EST
    Since you ask.

    Is it 2012 already? (4.50 / 2) (#41)
    by Anne on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 02:11:33 PM EST
    Did I black out and miss something, because last I checked, we were coming up on the 2010 midterms and were at least a year away from serious presidential campaigning.

    If I'm right that it is still 2010, then Obama isn't up for election; his name will not be on the ballot anywhere that I'm aware of.  No, those names will belong to members of the House of Representatives and one-third of the Senate, nationally, and locally, a slew of governors and state legislators.

    Those who are disillusioned and disaffected may find few reasons to vote in November, but that disillusionment and disaffection is not just the result of being unhappy with the reality of President Obama as compared to Candidate Obama, but of being as unhappy - or more unhappy - with their members of Congress, with their governors, with their local legislators, as they may be with Obama.  They are tired of trying to be heard, and not being listened to.  They are tired of agitating to no avail.  They are tired of being ignored, and now consider checking out of the whole process because they have seen that it doesn't matter.  Nothing changes for the better.

    That's realism.

    I've said this many times, but Congress is an independent body that has the power to push back against the president, but they have so far shown that after a few obligatory rounds of no-we-won't, the end result is near complete capitulation.  That's not likely to be rewarded, nor should it be.

    Sure, you can argue that this midterm is a referendum on Obama, and for some people, I'm sure it will be.  One of my Senators - Mikulski - is up for re-election this year, and my House District has been gerrymandered to a fare-thee-well and is only going to re-elect the Republican currently holding the seat.  Mikulski sinks or swims on her own, as far as I'm concerned and right now, she's treading water.  We have a governor's race that will pit the incumbent Democrat against the Republican governor he beat in 2006 - that's going to be ugly, and I will affirmatively vote for the incumbent, even though he has been rhetorically very supportive of Obama.  

    So, much as you would like to put all of us malcontents in one slot and blame it all on Obama, the truth is, we don't come in just one size or shape or demographic or region, so doing so is really little more than just another gratuitous, squeaky swipe, with the ever-present follow-up dash of Hillary to see if you can get a rise out of anyone.


    Realism? (none / 0) (#49)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 03:13:31 PM EST
    sounds more like depression to me...

    And as for this:

    So, much as you would like to put all of us malcontents in one slot and blame it all on Obama, the truth is, we don't come in just one size or shape or demographic or region, so doing so is really little more than just another gratuitous, squeaky swipe, with the ever-present follow-up dash of Hillary to see if you can get a rise out of anyone.

    tell it to E.J. Dionne...


    Demonize much? (none / 0) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 12:05:08 PM EST
    Riiight (none / 0) (#25)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 12:41:51 PM EST
    I am sure you prefer the mild words of E.J. Dionne Jr.:

    dispirited independents and moderates

    To anyone pointing out the actual characterizations of Obama by that "dispirited" group...

    And what is your solution? Sit and wait until Hillary is POTUS? lol


    How would you charecterize (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by cawaltz on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 12:55:48 PM EST
    the moderate people who put Obama over the top under the assumption that he would move the country in the right direction?

    I'm not going to be sitting and waiting for Hillary. However,I certainly ain't voting for people who consider me an afterthought and haven't done bupkiss with their majority.

    Obama and the Democrats blew their shot with me(speaking as one of those dispirited independants). Believe it or not, there was a chance at one time for them to prove to me that I belonged in their party. They completely blew it.


    Non Effective (none / 0) (#36)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 01:35:45 PM EST
    Or in the bag, as I characterized it above. Two sides of the coin. The disaffected who are waiting for Obama to abdicate his throne, and the fawning... both appear to be the subject of E.J. Dionne's query?  

    The subject (none / 0) (#50)
    by cawaltz on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 03:38:36 PM EST
    of his query are the growing number of people who seem to believe Democrats are also (read also because the portion he cites as independants and moderates were the people who put the Democrats in power due to the incompetence of the Republicans)incapable of leading the US in the right direction. An apathetic base and a disenchanted middle will mean the pendulum swings away from Democratic power.

    I'm not certain that EJ Dionne isn't looking for some sort of Hail Mary pass play. Although I daresay the people in Congress appear to be oblivious(or enjoying their own brand of apathy) to how unhappy the majority of the country is with them.


    Most of the commenters on here (none / 0) (#53)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 06:44:02 PM EST
    who are hacked at Obama are moderates?  Who are you talking about?  Of the few moderates on here...every single one of us has certain aspects of our beliefs that we are flaming leftwing about, and I guess you totally missed what a flaming left wing of the left branch most everybody else is.

    Whatever You Say (none / 0) (#56)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 06:59:31 PM EST
    The PUMAS all claimed to be going independent or GOP. Many of the refugees who arrived after Jan '08 are more conservative than the long time commenters who fled TL.

    Call yourself what you wish. I am just responding to what I see and the many of the people that E.J. Dionne writes about seem to be perched at TL, imo.


    Yeah I'M going independant (none / 0) (#57)
    by cawaltz on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 11:18:53 PM EST
    and I'm doing so because the people in Congress aren't near liberal enough for my taste. If it means the GOP wins so be it. I'm done with voting for bad because the GOP boogeymen might govern worse then the folks who are already governng badly.

    As for PUMAs going GOP, most are few and far between and the ones who are looking at it are doing so if the GOP were to nominate a female because many of the PUMAs I know feel incredibly strongly about a 50% solution(plus as long as you got the Democrat signing EOs saying your rights are secondary to others, they figure they ain't got much to lose. Bravo Obama! You're a strategic genius!)

    Barack Obama is more conservative then most of the PUMAs I know.

    Then again I don't know a single PUMA that agreed with the conscience clause or that would have defended DOMA.


    Suit Yourself (none / 0) (#60)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 20, 2010 at 12:08:27 AM EST
    Its still a free country..

    Some Dems went to (none / 0) (#58)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 11:39:17 PM EST
    an Independent party affiliation because they question the morality of certain things that Dem party leaders did during the primaries.  But of such people, almost all of them have very left wing liberal views.  Their views are not moderate though, they simply do not feel that the current Democratic party serves them or even desires to do so.

    Yeah (none / 0) (#61)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 20, 2010 at 12:14:46 AM EST
    Those are one of the groups that E.J. Dionne writes about. Between the worshipers and the haters Obama can disregard. But people who could be supporters get pandered too, with increasing power by numbers.

    Notice this:

    The Huffington Post's Sam Stein reported yesterday that the White House this week "reached out to progressive allies" and asked them "to dismiss" the column I wrote on Tuesday arguing against the selection of Elena Kagan for the Supreme Court.  



    What is your point here? (none / 0) (#62)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 20, 2010 at 12:31:48 AM EST
    Obama holds out a hand to progessives at this late date on this issue after he effed them all on Healthcare and Wall Street and Gitmo now they are supposed to immediately jump for joy..........as if they all haven't been royally screwed over so far?  If he wants some love from them he's got some making up to do.

    Point (none / 0) (#63)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 20, 2010 at 01:01:25 AM EST
    At this point, the point is that you are one of the people that E.J. Dionne is talking about.

    First off....like I care (none / 0) (#64)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 20, 2010 at 01:09:24 AM EST
    Secondly...it is your assessment of me and I guess my current relationship with E.J. Dionne (trying not to laugh here) so.....like I care.

    lol (none / 0) (#65)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 20, 2010 at 01:13:37 AM EST
    I'd argue (none / 0) (#66)
    by cawaltz on Tue Apr 20, 2010 at 01:21:53 AM EST
    he's already a day late and a dollar short. Between that growing "independant" number and the 80% today that was cited as not trusting "this" government to act in their interest(with a pretty broad swath of people that know government CAN be beneficial but believe it is choosing not to act in their interest)I'd say if he better do more than mouth platitudes as he has thus far. The country has lost faith in his ability to fix it and more and more are choosing my path or going with option B(the GOP). EJ Dionne is rightfully worried. It's going to take a heck  of a magic trick for Obama to convince the people he has hosed over that he really, really cares about them and is representative of them on issues(even though he's been more concilliatory to the opposing viewpoint).

    I'm siphoning off votes from both parties though in my spare time.


    You are a joy to read tonight :) (none / 0) (#67)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 20, 2010 at 01:39:19 AM EST
    I think that all the steroids are stealing my REMs.

    Awwwwwwwww (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by cawaltz on Tue Apr 20, 2010 at 03:54:12 AM EST
    Feel better soon MT. My husband has allergies and those on their own can suck,let alone with extra germies thrown in for good measure.

    I hope now that hubby is home you can get a good rest in.


    I just want my pony. (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 11:52:44 AM EST

    It's pretty much too late to solve the (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by tigercourse on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 12:01:49 PM EST
    problem to any great degree. The momentum has built up way too much against the Dems. I', a broken record, but had they focussed on jobs in the past year our losses would be less. Obama needs to find a way to deal with a Republican House an even weaker Democratic Senate and a ton of new Republican Governors.

    things I learned on my weekend vacation: (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by CST on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 02:22:38 PM EST
    people who work in finance have serious tunnel vision.  And even they can see that the current system is rigged and unfair.

    Pittsburgh is seriously lacking in late night transportation options.

    You should never change a school's colors.  There's history there!

    Ghosts are scary, but comforting too.  The more things change, the more they stay the same.

    Sleep is underrated.

    20 year olds look really young to me these days, but apparently I still look 20 to those who are 50.  Very nice to know, but I can't give you directions to the new building on campus.

    THE (NOT SO) EARLY DAZE, part 11 (none / 0) (#5)
    by Dadler on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 11:00:14 AM EST
    The memoir blog crashed into present reality. What a mess.  But decent to good Hollywood stories, and some inspired faux sour grapes.

    As for what will heal us: If we could simply get ourselves to establish a generous floor of benefits for all Americans, a level of existence we agree no American should be allowed to sink below, then the often corrupt race to get rich for those who desire it will not be as destructive to society as it has been.  Only with a generous and protective floor can we raise the ceiling to where the sky might be the limit.

    Yawn or Outrage? (none / 0) (#6)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 11:04:42 AM EST
    Baghdad, Iraq (CNN) -- The two most senior leaders of al Qaeda in Iraq have been killed in a joint Iraqi-U.S. operation, officials announced Monday.
    The deaths of Abu Ayyub al-Masri and Abu Omar al-Baghdadi deal "a potentially devastating blow" to the terrorist group, the U.S. military said...

    There have been previous reports of al-Baghdadi being killed, which turned out to be false. While other people have operated under the same name, authorities are confident the man killed Sunday is Abu Omar al-Baghdadi, al-Maliki said Monday. Al-Masri was once reported captured, which turned out to be inaccurate.


    I was just reading that (none / 0) (#9)
    by ruffian on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 11:34:42 AM EST
    And trying to remember how many times we have killed the leaders of al Quada in Iraq. As if they don't hatch new leaders.

    Nothing is a propaganda free zone (none / 0) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 11:39:51 AM EST
    Of course the military would say this is a devastating blow, you have to turn this into a win somehow because there isn't anything left to turn it into.  I happen to know though that killing middlemen is a devasting blow, and capturing leaders is a devastating blow.  But it looks like they took out a credit default swap in case they blew up the devastating blow and now they have a different devastating blow.

    Yeah (none / 0) (#20)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 12:03:39 PM EST
    I was also thinking that mostly it would be a yawn around here, for the reason you stated, and the other reason that many here think it is good to kill anyone associated with al qaida......  except when Obama puts out a warrant, so to speak, dead or alive, and the al qaida member happens to be an American citizen.

    Is the outrage that it is an American citizen, or that Obama put out the order.


    Speaking for me only, my outrage (none / 0) (#24)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 12:39:57 PM EST
    is based on no robust due process before a neutral magistrate.

    But OK To Capture or Kill Non Citizens? (none / 0) (#34)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 01:30:20 PM EST
    Capture or kill OBL by Clinton ok?  Or for the Yemeni's who are seeking US assistance to capture or kill an al qadia recruiter?

    Last October, the Yemeni government came to the CIA with a request: Could the agency collect intelligence that might help target the network of a U.S.-born al-Qaeda recruiter named Anwar al-Aulaqi?

    What happened next is haunting, in light of subsequent events: The CIA concluded that it could not assist the Yemenis in locating Aulaqi for a possible capture operation. The primary reason was that the agency lacked specific evidence that he threatened the lives of Americans -- which is the threshold for any capture-or-kill operation against a U.S. citizen. The Yemenis also wanted U.S. Special Forces' help on the ground in pursuing Aulaqi; that, too, was refused.

    David Ignatus via emptywheel

    Then they got evidence in November...  wonder what the Yemini's are doing now?  

    The thing I do not understand is how come Americans get special privileges and non-citizens can be shot at will, from a drone no less...

    And none of the law and order types around here complain when an alleged bad person is shot by the law enforcement even if he is an american citizen.

    And when collateral damage happens, the argument is that the law enforcement officers have a dangerous job and accidents happen.


    Oh Jesus (none / 0) (#59)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 11:43:01 PM EST
    Jeralyn has always put up postings about kill orders no matter who the President is.  This site was very upset about ramping up Afghanistan too.  This is a lefty site through and through with pretty clear anti war sentiments held by just about everyone.

    It's not the Democrats problem... (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 11:37:13 AM EST
    so what if Team D gets booted from offices large and small in 2010 and 2012, the real money comes when you leave office...they don't have no problems except maybe legacy problems, and they obviously can't be concerned about legacy.

    Our country and her common people, otoh, got problems...and I wouldn't know where to start, they are many and they are systemic.  Electing some people with a new letter after their name, or at least trying to, is a good a place to start as any I guess....this D/R two-step is like standing still.

    From the America the Beautiful file... (none / 0) (#16)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 11:57:56 AM EST
    in case we need a reminder that it ain't all bad all the time...I saw a wonderful ensemble of local rockabilly musicians perform The Kinks "Muswell Hillbillies" in its entirety at an American Legion Hall on Saturday night.  Link

    It was just the coolest thing...great fun had by all.  America's greatness on display.

    Meanwhile, I once again heard Lang (none / 0) (#26)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 12:43:43 PM EST
    Lang play the piano.  Mozart this time.  I really, really do not like his playing.  But the audience, including many Asian/American children in their party clothes, were in the audience.  That's a good thing.  And Lang Lang's hands and face were on a video screen above the stage so we could follow his every meaningless gesture.  Best part was his very well-cut suit and the gestures he made to acknowledge his adoring audience.  Rock star of classical music.

    I did enjoy Christopher Eschenbach and the Schleswig-Holstein orchestra, all selected by him and all 27 years old or under.  Excellent musicians all.


    Now I know how you must feel... (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 01:13:20 PM EST
    reading my music comments...I haven't the slightest clue who you are talking about:)

    Mozart or Lang Lang? (none / 0) (#42)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 02:18:58 PM EST
    Click here to purchase items from the "Lang Lang Store."  langlang.com

    Mozart... (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 02:41:34 PM EST
    kinda rings a bell...:)

    No (none / 0) (#48)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 03:09:49 PM EST
    Mozart wrote nothing for handbell choir, but he did write a couple of pieces for glass harmonica.

    You would get a kick out of this, a piece you can play in your kitchen after a drinking party...

    Adagio for Glass Armonica K.356

    Adagio and Rondo (KV 617)
    for glass armonica, flute, oboe, viola and cello



    Ah, but don't forget "Die Zauberfloete": (none / 0) (#52)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 03:59:01 PM EST
    Bells about 4 minutes into video

    From Ingmaar Bergman film of the Magic Flute.


    Speaking for myself (none / 0) (#23)
    by cawaltz on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 12:12:10 PM EST
     I washed my hands of the bunch of them. I'll be voting third party. I really don't care what they do at this point.

    Completely understandable (none / 0) (#32)
    by BobTinKY on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 01:17:33 PM EST
    but do try to vote for left leaning, progressive primary challengers to Dems.  It matters and nothing says you have to then vote for the primary winner in the general election.

    Woo-Hoo... (none / 0) (#33)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 01:18:07 PM EST
    my perennial choice, "none of the bastards above", might crack 5% next waste of a Tuesday...welcome to the club cawaltz!

    and OT link for you, dog (none / 0) (#38)
    by Dadler on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 01:47:09 PM EST
    I'm on it my man... (none / 0) (#39)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 02:01:23 PM EST
    keep 'em comin'!

    If you wonder why you smell of manure (none / 0) (#29)
    by SeeEmDee on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 01:10:36 PM EST
    and are all wet, it's because, just like the Rethug base, Dem activists were used (wipe, wipe, wipe) and then flushed after that use ended.

    The 'energized base' has been machiavellied, treated exactly the same as the 'auxiliaries' that Ol' Nic talked about so long ago. The Establishment DLC wonks moved in after the 'auxiliaries' did the heavy lifting. As in "Meet the new boss; he's the same as the old boss."

    But don't feel too badly; the Rethugs are in worse shape, as their crazy Xtian wife and her TeaBag waving looney relatives have decided to move into the Big Money Boyz house, and they aren't going to leave anytime soon.

    EJ's wrong about this (none / 0) (#31)
    by BobTinKY on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 01:15:08 PM EST
    " . . .  a lack of energy among their own supporters and from dispirited independents and moderates who look to government to solve problems but have little confidence in its ability to deliver."

    I have every confidence a well run government agency can deliver.  I do not lack confidence in government's ability.  I lack confidence in the ability or willingness of today's Democratic politicians to use government to solve problems.

    It is today's Democratic politicians who, much like the insane GOP opposition, have little confidence in government's ability to deliver and that is the problem.  Abortion seems to be the only issue that differentiates the parties anymore.

    Florida Senate (none / 0) (#35)
    by CoralGables on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 01:30:55 PM EST
    Top GOP officials in DC (per the National Journal) now believe it is a virtual certainty that FL Gov. Charlie Crist will bolt the GOP and run instead as an independent.

    There is no Connecticut loser law in Florida.
    He has until April 30th to decide. This could be really fun. If only the Dems had a statewide candidate on the ballot, they could walk right through the open door and gain a Senate seat.

    4 out of the 5 three way race polls (none / 0) (#37)
    by tigercourse on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 01:38:23 PM EST
    done for Florida Senate have shown Rubio winning. I think he'll make it even if Crist runs as an independent.

    Where is the evidence? (none / 0) (#40)
    by robert234 on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 02:02:24 PM EST
    I suggest reading the results of the PEW RESEARCH CENTER'S POLL just released in the WALL STREET JOURNAL and THE WASHINGTON POST today. Subject: "Americans are more skeptical of WASHINGTION than ever." Here's just one finding--only 22% think government is OK.

    Well around 8% or so... (none / 0) (#44)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 02:36:07 PM EST
    work for the fed...I can understand them not ragging on the boss...I guess that leaves 14% who must be hooked on Xanax.

    I heard Pew results discussed 3 times today--anger (none / 0) (#55)
    by jawbone on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 06:51:00 PM EST
    mentioned, but always as anger toward government from the Tea Partiers and some independents. I heard nothing about the anger from my side of things about our president and Congress not doing enough, not doing what would really help people.

    It's as if we DFH's don't exist. When we marked in our hundreds of thousands, even millions, we were basically ignored. We're ignored when we are upset that single payer was taken off the table and out of public discussion by connivance of the MCM (mainstream corporate media) and our president. When we decry our presdient's unconstitutional actions of picking up where Bush/Cheney left off.


    Read further into that poll (none / 0) (#69)
    by cawaltz on Tue Apr 20, 2010 at 04:05:15 AM EST
    about half of the people want government to DO MORE. Believe it or not, these weren't all conservative "small government" types. The anger appears to be coming from both sides. No one is happy(except for the 14% on payroll and 8% on Xanax as kdog says).

    This is a sad, sad tale... (none / 0) (#46)
    by desertswine on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 02:52:50 PM EST
    Government works two ways (none / 0) (#47)
    by Slado on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 02:55:25 PM EST
    Efficiently or Effectively.

    It can't do or be both.  

    That's the problem.  Republicans and Democrats routinely promise both and we all act surprised when they don't deliver.  

    To argue that government is working not a real question.  In some areas it works great, in others it's terrible and in most its simply average.  L

    Look at our current deficit and even if you think it's effectively working on the whole it's not efficient and there in lies the rub.

    Republicans then democrats it doesn't matter which party is in power or if they're sharing power, government keeps growing and making more promises then it can keep.   The rest of the political arguments are window dressing.   If you're anti military you want more social programs, if you're anti social programs you want a bigger military but everyone is wrong.   We need less of everything or we're going to go broke.

    The question is not can the government do something well.  The answer is yes it can.  

    The question is can it do all the things it's promised well and within it's budget?  

    The answer to that question is no.

    Interesting article in Sunday NYT (none / 0) (#51)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 19, 2010 at 03:48:22 PM EST
    magazine on studies re being married, never married, divorced, widowed, etc. and stress: Is Marriage good for Your Health?

    ah Texas (none / 0) (#70)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Apr 20, 2010 at 01:31:41 PM EST
    protecting the sanctity of divorce:

    DALLAS -- A Texas state appeals court is scheduled to hear arguments Wednesday in the case of a gay couple in Dallas that was granted a divorce even though the state doesn't recognize same-sex marriage.

    Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott is appealing the lower court judge's ruling on the grounds that protecting the "traditional definition of marriage" means doing the same for divorce.