Why Sarah Palin's Hand Became Political Fodder

James Joyner plays dumb for some reason over Sarah Palin's Hand-gate:

[T]his seems much ado about nothing. If Sarah Palin likes to write buzz words on her hand, so what?

The problem is Joyner knows why it became political fodder. Look at his comment in the same thread:

[. . .] Obama's teleprompter could fail, too, and goodness knows what he'd say.

More . . .

This is why Palin Hand-gate has become a big story - the GOP, Palin included, stupidly ran with the idiotic teleprompter line. This is referred to as being hoisted by your own petard - pretty effective in politics. Joyner knows this. It is silly of him to play dumb.

Does anyone involved actually care? Of course not. But politics is nothing if not stupid.

Speaking for me only

< Fruitless Concessions To The GOP | John Murtha, RIP >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Methinks (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by Zorba on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:10:54 PM EST
    that someone told Sarah to "talk to the hand" and she took it literally.

    I wonder what's written (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by ruffian on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:18:04 PM EST
    on the top of her head.

    nothing, apparently (5.00 / 2) (#177)
    by coigue on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:40:55 PM EST
    If only one of the notes had been (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by ruffian on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:21:29 PM EST
    'teleprompter - fake scorn' it would have been perfect. And no one could play dumb.

    While (5.00 / 4) (#4)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:21:52 PM EST
    All politicians use teleprompters, Obama's use of them is kind of over the top, and he has shown on several occasions that he has trouble giving one of his "greatest speeches evah" without them. That's when he fumbles around and starts saying "um...uh....uh...."

    His teleprompter dependency is fair game for fodder.  She is just worth ignoring.

    YouTube has an ample supply (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:38:06 PM EST
    of examples of what happens when Obama tries to speak to the people without a crafted message scrolling the words for him to read.

    If he were to take the opportunity to make fun of himself for it, like Palin did with her "Hi Mom" message, the joke would lose it's punch.


    Absolutely, sister (4.00 / 3) (#14)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:40:21 PM EST
    All this does is keep her in the news cycle.  Those who love here will come to her defense, and those who hate her will look stupid and petty for going on and on about this.  Win-win for her.

    Stupidity and pettiness (5.00 / 5) (#21)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:53:47 PM EST
    without those tendencies, what would Ms Trojan Horse and her Tea Party have to bind their movement (pun intended) together?

    Obama has given some fairly strong examples recently of being able to think and speak on his feet..when has Palin, ever?


    Umm....I would hope that is a (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by vml68 on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:16:21 PM EST
    Obama has given some fairly strong examples recently of being able to think and speak on his feet..

    requirement for being POTUS even if recent history showed us otherwise.


    I don't love her or hate her (5.00 / 11) (#31)
    by cawaltz on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:02:32 PM EST
    She's a pol. I do like to think though I would defend anyone who got monikered as a "bimbo" simply for using crib notes in a public forum.

    Trojan horse (4.33 / 6) (#43)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:13:38 PM EST
    as in, being an illusory blow against sexism and misogyny, while sneaking the reactionary right and fundamentalism back into prominence.

    The Clarence Thomas strategy.


    I don't consider it a trojan horse (5.00 / 7) (#54)
    by cawaltz on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:20:42 PM EST
    calling someone a bimbo for using a technque such as bullet points which is taught in college classrooms is misogyny.

    You can dress it up and parade it around but anyone who ever had to take a public speaking class knows that bullet points are not only perfectly acceptable, in the course itself they're required even if you are able to speak "off the cuff."

    Hey though, if you think it's a good idea for progressives to keep alienating the "Clinton Democrats" by focusing on the petty rather than  actual policy, go for it. I'm sure the Republicans will thank you. After all, you don't "need" us anyway, that "new" coalition is going swimmingly.


    Misogyny for pointing (5.00 / 5) (#155)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:16:59 PM EST
    out her junior high school writing on her palm?

    And bullet points?  She couldn't remember "taxes," as a GOP bullet point????

    If you criticize Palin personally it is de facto sexism and misogyny at work.....I haven't read the word bimbo on this thread except by those who are defending Palin....You can only criticize her policies...in other words play nice, and don't be mean to Palin--as if she gets a bye where other male candidates would not....

    The criticism of her being stupid (and I think she is more an ignorant extremist than stupid) is not a sexist one.....Did you not say that about Reagan?


    I don't know why (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Dadler on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:31:11 PM EST
    I think i will love her to run for the presidency (5.00 / 4) (#10)
    by nyrias on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:35:49 PM EST
    Out of so many politicians, she is the #1 in bringing me the most entertainment.

    To those who are arguing, it really does not matter. It is a matter of perception and once she is branded "dumb", she has no way of getting out of it (well, the fact that she is does not help). Little things like this just exacerbate the perception.

    If she runs (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:38:02 PM EST
    She won't make it far.  But I doubt she's going to run.  In the end, she'll realize she has a better gig at Fox News and in giving speeches. Plus I think the Old Guard realizes she just drives people away, so she'll raise some money for the party, and then bow out.  While she's getting all the attention, someone actually serious will be quietly fundraising and building alliances.

    I think she will run (none / 0) (#16)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:47:47 PM EST
    She is assembling a staff....She has one of McCain's most hawkish foreign policy advisers writing speeches for her....

    In her interview with Chris Wallace, she said it would be "absurd" to not consider running for President....

    She would crush Romney in the Iowa caucuses....


    I disagree (none / 0) (#18)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:49:06 PM EST
    Romney is intelligent and well-spoken and has the experience.  And if Pawlenty gets in, well, he's the boy next door for Iowans.

    You seem quite complimentary of Romney (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:54:10 PM EST
    He is wooden and does not appeal to the fundamentalists who go to Republican caucuses....

    Palin knows how to ride the wave of anger and resentment and fundamentalist fear....Romney can't compete with that...


    He'll appeal to the fundamentalists (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:57:12 PM EST
    Who are over his Mormonism after 2008.  They want to win.

    No, they want purity (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:06:17 PM EST
    And God will deliver them a victory in the form of the modern-day Joan of Arc.

    Sure, the hard-boiled conservartives may be aghast at her vapidity, but they know they could control her.....She is worse than Reagan in believing slogans etc.....

    You doubt her ability to win the Iowa caucuses?  Just look at those who defend her here on this progressive blog....She will have that kind of sympathy a hundred fold among the true believes....

    Pat Robertson won the Iowa caucues, and he had nowhere the emotional connection to the GOP Id that Palin has....
    Romney's best chance would be New Hampshire....  


    Again, no one is defending her... (4.62 / 8) (#40)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:11:15 PM EST
    there is a huge difference between defending someone and pointing out that the criticisms being lodged are nothing more than petty and immature attacks.

    Thin line, there (5.00 / 3) (#79)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:33:10 PM EST
    An amatuerish scribbling of old line GOP talking points that most everyone--except apparently Palin--could recite in their sleep.....

    And this is being held up as less deserving of criticism than Obama's speeches on the teleprompter....full blown ideas professionally delievered versus goofy writing on one's palm....

    She is running for President of the United States, of that make no doubt, and she acts like she is running for Student Body President of her high school....

    And the double standard is stacked against Obama--to the extent of reaching to defend Palin...


    How did (none / 0) (#61)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:24:47 PM EST
    that work out for Pat Robertson...?

    And even if Romney beats Palin, she (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:51:28 PM EST
    will no matter what have pulled Romney to the Right....

    She is a problem even if she does not win because she represents the theologic wing of the Republican Party.......She will lead a wingnut mob....

    I think some here like her because she bashes Obama...."How's that hopey changey thing working for fer ya"?


    It is funny (5.00 / 4) (#129)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:03:02 PM EST
    how many people are outraged at Palin saying that-- when many of us here and elsewhere in the leftosphere have said exactly the same thing, same words even, in recent months.

    we are not (5.00 / 3) (#144)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:11:31 PM EST
    running for president.  I would prefer a little more seriousness.

    It is said with venom in both places.... (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:45:58 PM EST
    He was a force (none / 0) (#85)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:36:12 PM EST
    for quite some time in GOP circles....

    Palin has much more of a demagogic flair and will go further....

    People pooh-poohed Reagan too....


    that is exactly right (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:39:14 PM EST
    except I think this is the difference.  Reagan was actually pretty smart.  in a craven sort of way.
    he could actually appear presidential.
    I think she COULD win the nomination.  but not the office. but sometimes reading this blog I wonder.

    She will never win the nomination (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:54:12 PM EST
    Republicans want to win in 2012.  They know she has no chance to win - they, too, can orchestrate who gets their nomination, and they will not allow her to be the nominee.  They have tasted victory recently, they will probably have pretty substantial pickups in the fall, and they will be smelling blood in the water.  And especially if the economy still sucks, they aren't going to put her up there when she drives off so many independents - the Republicans HAVE the independents now - they won't drive them away.

    I can't tell you how many Republican friends and co-workers (mostly women) whom I've talked to and they absolutely HATE Sarah Palin.

    Not. Gonna. Happen.


    I would have said that a couple of weeks ago (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:53:29 PM EST
    But watching Palin, it is clear she will run....

    You rely on the right wing being rational....or at least being restrained by the rational among them.....I am not so sure--the tea partiers are gaining momentum, and just like any other mob, once unleashed, are hard to control.

    Buchanan won New Hampshire, so a right wing demogogue can win there....Robertson won Iowa....

    If Palin wins both Iowa and New Hampshire, watch out....

    I do think the economy will be better in 2012...So, the social issues, and a hard line foreign policy (to get ready for the Second Coming) would predominate for Republicans....


    the teabaggers (none / 0) (#205)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 03:09:21 PM EST
    now own the republican party.  without them there is no republican party.  doesnt matter it Lindsey Graham likes it or not.
    I think this may be our best and possibly only hope for the future.

    she will run (none / 0) (#71)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:28:18 PM EST

    She's going to run (none / 0) (#137)
    by ruffian on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:08:11 PM EST
    I have no idea how far she will get, but I am convinced she is running. Everyone that ever ran for president and lost had a decent gig someplace else, and she could walk right back into her gig at FOX.

    It seems that once people get bitten by that presidential bug, they do not give up easily. I think she got the bug.


    but (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:13:02 PM EST
    I cant remember anyone quitting their job as governor halfway thru the term and then running for president.

    To whom? (4.00 / 3) (#17)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:48:25 PM EST
    Little things like this just exacerbate the perception.

    I like to think I'm fair-minded enough to grasp the petty nature of the criticisms. What was it, FIVE WHOLE WORDS? Oh my, can't get more stupid than that.

    The people who are terrified or jealous of Palin found this a big deal. People who know she doesn't have the substance to succeed in a run for anything aren't shaken by it.


    Oh please. It's neither terror nor jealousy (5.00 / 4) (#23)
    by shoephone on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:56:33 PM EST
    And it's not a big deal.

    It's pure comedy, that's all.  


    That;'s what I think (5.00 / 4) (#39)
    by ruffian on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:10:34 PM EST
    It is mostly just funny to watch. Sure, all pols are funny at one time or another,a nd this is one of them.

    Already argued about the relative professionalism of hand notes and teleprompters the other day. I am left only enjoying the comedy of the moment.


    Comedy doesn't read so nasty (4.72 / 11) (#37)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:09:31 PM EST
    and people are making it nasty. I don't support Palin because she is far too Right with her religious and policy ideas. I don't have to call her stupid to justify that I won't vote for her.

    I haven't seen anything yet in the criticisms that caused a chuckle...although, I did think the "Hi Mom" response the following day was worthy of a laugh.


    Nasty Out of Style? (5.00 / 5) (#124)
    by squeaky on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:59:49 PM EST
    Wow, seems to me that you were not complaining when nasty attacks were hurled at Obama, in fact you were quite the participant..  but now all of a sudden you have matured?

    So much for principals..  


    it's fear (4.25 / 8) (#97)
    by TeresaInPa on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:40:48 PM EST
    and it is distraction and it is also sexist.

    It IS a distraction (5.00 / 3) (#120)
    by shoephone on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:57:38 PM EST
    and a very funny one. But calling the response to Palin's crib-notin' "sexist" makes your line of defense pure hogwash. The game of crying sexism and misogyny at the drop of a hat has gotten old.

    "Sexist"--nonsense (5.00 / 4) (#192)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:55:02 PM EST
    Was it sexist to call Quayle and Reagan stupid?

    While I agree that (5.00 / 7) (#26)
    by cawaltz on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:58:30 PM EST
    Sarah's behavior is hypocritical, I think the fact that out of everything that was said that the "progressives" have chosen to focus on the fact that she has notes on her hand shows that they would still rather play petty games then focus on policy specifics. Why not call her out on her commentary that Barack Obama wasn't "strong enough" on national security/defense? Why focus on the fact she uses notes with bullet points(a trick you learn in a basic college level public speaking class)?

    Ironically enough, my problems with Sarah Palin is the same problem I have with the progressives. What she says and does strikes me as political gamery and oneupmanship. I could say the same thing about the "progressives" reaction to outrage of everything she says and does.

    If you want to win over the Independants(or at least those of us that jettisoned the Democratic party after we were told we weren't important enough to be considered) there are plenty of good arguments against Sarah Palin. I could start with her argument that government health care is the equivalent of death panels and work right on down the line. Instead though by focusing on the petty and calling her a "witless wonder or bimbostein" for using crib notes you've put many of us off and actually had people that disagree with her philosopically defending her. It doesn't strike me as a politically smart manuever.

    If Im a Republican operative (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:33:02 PM EST
    Im getting as many hands as I can muster to start hurling as much sexist, misogynist invective 'coming from the Left' at Palin as possible.

    You can almost hear the traction in the Right direction that that would yield.


    except (3.00 / 2) (#216)
    by TeresaInPa on Tue Feb 09, 2010 at 07:03:43 AM EST
    most of the sexist juvenile behavior is coming right from Obots and other democrats.

    You can't engage Palin (5.00 / 3) (#121)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:58:05 PM EST
    intellectually....She eschews Reason in the best tradition of the right wing....

    Look at her hypocrisy on use of the word "retarded"--Rahm, bad; Rush, good.   And the wingers just lap it up....

    The Left had better learn to fight the religious fundamentalists more effectively than relying on dull policy arguments to win....


    amen brother (5.00 / 2) (#151)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:15:04 PM EST
    well said.  she will not be defeated with logic or reason.  she has nothing to do with either.

    Clarifying (none / 0) (#29)
    by cawaltz on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:00:33 PM EST
    I realize you specifically BTD did not use either of those terms.

    My comment is meant to be a general one regarding "handgate."


    Real issues are more important than (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by my opinion on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:01:53 PM EST
    than this faux gotcha my team is better BS.

    I care (5.00 / 4) (#35)
    by Emma on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:07:04 PM EST
    nothing about Sarah Palin.  And all the Dem hoisting on petards doesn't make me care about her and it doesn't make me care about the Dems, either.

    If the ridicule of Sarah Palin had a point, such as passing real health care or a jobs bill, I might care.  But it all seems so tit-for-tat and stupid that there's no point in thinking about it beyond this:

    Obama used a teleprompter to talk to sixth graders.  Doh!

    Palin wrote notes on her hand.  Doh!

    Ridicule for the sake of being funny has it's place, but it's a tiny, tiny little place and it doesn't make me think the Dems are all that and a bag of chips, either.

    See, now I've spent way too much time on it.

    Perhaps (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:12:47 PM EST
    I do notice that this post is the most active of those I have written today.

    Well (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by Emma on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:19:58 PM EST
    I came off really preachy, there without meaning to, that's for sure.  Yuk.

    I don't care about criticisms of Palin.  I do get upset when those criticisms veer into misogyny.  Which you, BTD, have not done, so these comments aren't about anything you've written about Palin.   Why be misogynist when it's so easy not to be?

    Like people rubberneck at a car wreck, I rubberneck at Palin wrecks because I'm bound to see a comment by a Dem/liberal/progressive which reaffirms my disaffection with the Dem/liberal/progrerssive parties/movement.

    Also, why comment on health care threads?  As you've indicated the situation is completely static for the moment, and WH efforts to breathe life back into it by holding a bipartisan summit seems doomed from the outset.  Sort of like that jobs summit....


    why on earth (5.00 / 4) (#58)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:22:54 PM EST
    would laughing about her inane scribbling on her hands with a ball point pen while making teleprompter jokes be misogynist?

    I didn't (5.00 / 5) (#73)
    by Emma on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:29:41 PM EST
    say it was.

    Though I don't think the stuff on her hand was "inane".  It seemed like the same political buzzwords everybody uses.  You know, words like "hope" and "change"....

    Palin has done exactly what pols do every day, at every speech, every email, every phone conference, every press conference:  used buzzwords to make an emotional appeal and connect with her audience.  She's no more inane than any otheer pol, the form of her Cliff notes notwithstanding.  She's no more inane than the fundraiser emails I get from Dems, including the WH, every day.


    ok (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:33:18 PM EST
    heres the thing.  if you cant remember this:


        (Budget - crossed out) Cuts


        Lift American Spirits

    and you are even considering running for president, that is nothing short of damn scary.


    Obama can't seem to remember campaign promises (5.00 / 5) (#146)
    by Ellie on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:11:45 PM EST
    ... with or without a teleprompter. How freakin' scary -- or dumb -- is that???

    If I still gave a damn, I'd prefer the blogren to hammer at that.


    Hmmmm (4.66 / 9) (#91)
    by Emma on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:39:11 PM EST
    Is that anything like needing your audience to hold up huge signs that say "Hope" and "Change" on them so you'll remember your own campaign slogan?

    That's the level that criticisms of Palin's cliff notes have reached.  "Oh, the humanity!"  The overreaction looks a lot like misogyny to people who lived through "OMG!!!! She wants Obama to be assassinated!!!  Is there nothing to which that woman will stoop!!!"

    See, the thing is, you can hear what some of us are saying, or not, and adjust accordingly, or not.  But we're not going to be talked out of what we see, especially by being told how stupid we're being.


    OK (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:41:29 PM EST
    I think we are finally getting to the point.

    Well, (5.00 / 9) (#114)
    by Emma on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:53:51 PM EST
    the point of it for me, which is that Dems are going to have a hard time convincing me that they're any better for women than Republicans given they're performance in 2008.  And very little that's come down the pike since has been helpful.

    Stacked up against the Ledbetter Act and HRC at State, you've got:

    The Stupak amendment, and widspread Dem support for it;
    The Nelson amendment, and widespread Dem support for it;
    The complete failure and pass-the-ball on DADT;
    The complete failure and pass-the-ball on DOMA;
    The continued hissy fits over Sarah Palin that consistently go over the top and employ sexist language such as "bimbo";
    The complete failure to act on the conscience clause;
    Continued and increased funding for abstinance education;
    Health care reform bills that specifically exempt out women's health care needs.

    Dems started in the hole they dug in 2008, don't seem to realize they're in a hole, and just keep digging.


    You forgot (5.00 / 4) (#153)
    by cawaltz on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:16:24 PM EST
    taking low cost birth control out of the stimulus bill for a total of 0 Republican votes.



    I promised myself I would not get (5.00 / 4) (#88)
    by ruffian on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:37:54 PM EST
    sucked into this particular argument again but are you really saying that scribbling notes on your hand is less 'inane', (to use his word the way it was intended to describe the scribbling on the hand, not the notes themselves) then using notecards or teleprompters?  It is exactly the form of the Cliff notes notes that makes it funny.

    Yes, (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Emma on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:43:03 PM EST
    it's the form that makes it funny.  I agree, Doh!

    But the content of the notes wasn't any more inane than anything going on in politics right now.


    I mean (none / 0) (#82)
    by Emma on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:35:26 PM EST
    I just got an email from Kucinich asking me to help him win a poll at Firedoglake.  Talk about inane.  Yeesh.  The cr*p I get in my email from Dems.

    I think that (none / 0) (#87)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:36:45 PM EST
    might have been from a staffer

    Really? (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Emma on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:39:47 PM EST
    Who cares.  It was from Kucinich's office.

    you noticed that (none / 0) (#50)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:19:06 PM EST

    I didn't realize you (none / 0) (#69)
    by cawaltz on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:27:06 PM EST
    wanted me to post I agree in the posts I agree with.

    I visited the excise thread and the health care thread before I even ventured into this thread as I do on every health care thread that has been posted.


    Not my point (none / 0) (#74)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:30:13 PM EST
    It is that obviously there is more interest in this story than some protest.

    I wrote about Joyner's strange reasoning - because why it is being hammered seems pretty obvious to me.

    Is it stupid? Duh. Politics is incredibly stupid.

    that's not new.


    The interest is in the larger point (4.57 / 7) (#93)
    by cawaltz on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:39:18 PM EST
    "Witless wonder" and "bimbostein" are examples of the hyperbole being heaped on someone for employing a common speaking technique.

    Do you find that appropriate?

    When Palin spouts hyperbole I expect it. After all, she's a pol. When I hear it comin from people who are supposed to be activists and advocates then I have to assume they are playing politics too. Is that what the progressive community wants from Indy's like myself? Do they want me to assume they are the equivalent of pols?  That's what happens when you focus on personality over policy in my view.

    If the criticism had been her statements on Obama's stance on defense or if the critique had been her actual positions, you might have found a whole lot less of the people defending her. However, that isn't the case at all.


    If Palin is the Repub candidate (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Dadler on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:10:29 PM EST
    I will pull a Werner Herzog and eat my own shoe. Note in the small print I reserve the right to use footwear manufactured from the finest Belgian chocolate.

    Interestingly enough, on her foot... (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by Dadler on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:14:27 PM EST
    ...is scribbled a haiku about the view of Russia from her porch.  And her phone number.

    or so i hear (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Dadler on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:15:22 PM EST


    I love you folks, anyone here from Decatur?


    that haiku (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by Dadler on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:25:14 PM EST
    Putin stalks his eastern shore
    Our eyes almost meet
    Todd, please bring me the rifle

    Bristol, is a haiku... (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Dadler on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:29:40 PM EST
    ...7-5-7 or 5-7-5?  Is Sharpie erasable?

    Dadler, please! (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by shoephone on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:44:40 PM EST
    You're making my stomach hurt from laughing so hard...



    I recently made some friends there (none / 0) (#53)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:20:10 PM EST
    they have something called Decatur Dirt that is my new favorite thing.

    It's interesting to me (5.00 / 5) (#51)
    by CST on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:19:50 PM EST
    that so many posts here are coming to Palin's defense from "attacks" on the left.

    Granted, I haven't read every single post, but I haven't seen too many "attacks" either.  It's mostly just poking fun.  Not sure what everyone is defending Palin from.  She wrote on her hand.  It was pretty silly.  That's all.  No one has approached any level of "eviscerating" yet.

    warning to Jeralyn (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:25:05 PM EST
    you think getting rid of the PUMAs was a nightmare?

    They left at some point? (5.00 / 2) (#195)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:58:59 PM EST
    You mean (5.00 / 3) (#199)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 03:01:15 PM EST
    That group of people who left blogs like this and have have proven to be right?

    thats an interesting take (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:40:04 PM EST
    what ARE her "policies"

    What (3.50 / 2) (#188)
    by sas on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:51:19 PM EST
    are her policies?

     eliminating government waste, keeping taxes low, putting God back into the forefront, running efficient government, minimizing debt, feminism...

    she talks the Republican tax-line, antigovernment line


    its going to be a long (5.00 / 3) (#117)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:55:44 PM EST
    long time till 2012.

    indeed <sigh> (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by ruffian on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:03:19 PM EST
    John Murtha has died (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by caseyOR on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:02:11 PM EST
    This is O/T, but I just heard on the noon news that PA congressman John Murtha has died.

    Speaking of stupid . . . . (5.00 / 5) (#159)
    by nycstray on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:22:23 PM EST
    The DSCC fund raising email today titled "Caption This":

    Dear ***,

    Did you read about last weekend's "tea party" convention in Nashville? Attendees paid $549 apiece for a weekend of activism and education capped by the main attraction: a speech by everybody's favorite half-term former Alaska governor, Sarah Palin. For her efforts, Palin received more than $100,000 in speaking fees - and the adoration of legions of fans.

    In honor of the tea party convention, we came up with a way for you to tell us what you think she's saying. Just click on the link below, fill in the speech bubble, then submit it to us. We'll post the best creations at dscc.org.

    Click here to fill in what Palin's really saying.

    Be creative! Sarah Palin wants to be the voice of the tea party movement. Let's help.

    Exactly what grade are we in here?

    I think her hand became political fodder (5.00 / 2) (#182)
    by rdandrea on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:45:23 PM EST
    Because we've got nothing else right now.

    Focusing on GWB's stupidity (5.00 / 5) (#183)
    by coigue on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:45:28 PM EST
    did not work so well. It reinforced the idea of liberal elitism...which is a stupid concept to anyone with half a brain in their head.

    (irony, intentional)

    What does she really stand for (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by samtaylor2 on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:56:27 PM EST
    The problem with Palin is not that she is for lower taxes, a strong US army, etc., but being for talking points is not a position.  

    Exactly. (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by shoephone on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 03:02:17 PM EST
    Really? (5.00 / 1) (#207)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 03:10:00 PM EST
    You can't abide by the site rules of no profanity?  Is it really that hard to throw in an "*"?

    Cawaltz is right. It doesn't do the Left or (5.00 / 4) (#209)
    by esmense on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 03:16:06 PM EST
    Democrats, who are suppose to be the defenders of feminism and supporters of female participation in the public sphere, any good to belittle the lady.

    Whatever she is or isn't in terms of intelligence and personality, it's beyond dispute that she is a politician who is quite adept at mining her supposed victimhood at the hands of evil, hypocritical liberals.

    Every time she is demeaned and ridiculed in sexist ways, or in ways that can be presented as such, it weakens Democrats' arguments for themselves as the champions of feminism and female participation in public life -- and strengthens Republicans.'

    Liberals would do better to ignore her. But they just can't seem to help themselves -- they are too happy to oblige her with the kind of petty controversy she thrives on.

    You (5.00 / 2) (#211)
    by sas on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 03:45:23 PM EST
    are right-on Emma!

    The Dems lost ALL credibility with me as a party when I saw the "progressive" blogger boyz, and people like Olberman, and Matthews trash Hillary.  Then, Brazile so much as told me I was part of an old coalition in the Dem party and not needed anymore.

    As you say, Emma, the Dems have lost their credibility on women's issues.  When the proposed Senate HCR bill threw women's health issues backward it sickened me.

     The Mass election was just a start.  The Dems are so dumb that they think they can continue to alienate a big chunk of their former base.  

    Not that I'm into Republicanism by any means....it has some rotten to the core ideas....just that no one can take me for granted.

    Dan Quayle (5.00 / 0) (#212)
    by coigue on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 04:09:48 PM EST
    with lipstick.

    I think many here are confusing concern (5.00 / 3) (#213)
    by esmense on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 05:32:56 PM EST
    for Democrats' ability to be taken seriously as defenders against sexism with concern for Palin.

    Palin's chances for getting the nomination are exceedingly slim. Her chances of winning the Presidency are zero. Not because she writes notes on her hands, but because her experience is extremely limited and she quit, without finishing her term, the only political job of major substance and responsibility she's ever had.

    No male candidate with that background could expect to be taken seriously as a Presidential candidate and no woman should either. Looked at objectively, this woman's actions actually represent a setback in women's struggle to be taken seriously as qualified candidates in the political arena.

    Democrats can afford to, and would be better served by, taking the high road and refusing to attack her on a personal and petty level. It's true that no one would be expected to show such restraint if she was a man, but so what? She's not a man. She's only the second woman in history to appear on a major party presidential ticket.

    When women achieve equality with men in national politics -- after a president or two or twenty -- we will undoubtedly be able to criticize and demean them with equal insensitivity and lack of concern about the political consequences and implicatons.

    But we ain't there yet.

    Palin will run (5.00 / 1) (#214)
    by kidneystones on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 07:07:09 PM EST
    And that means the GOP gotv is going to be very strong right through 2010.

    Too early to tell how she'll do in the primaries, but she's a formidable energizer and gives the malcontents a real voice.

    Speaking as someone compelled to search out her virtues in 2008 (I supported McCain/Palin) jbindc and jondee have touched on the key points.

    Palin is robustly and enthusiastically anti-intellectual. She'll point to being able to balance budgets as mayor and governor (whether she did or not is another question) and point to Larry Summers, who has to be the poster boy for hubris and fiscal mismanagement. Count on Larry being gone well before 2012.

    The gender and appeal are an absolute mine-field for Dems. Should Palin win the nomination, she's going to alienate every self-described smart Dem voter and appeal very strongly to a whole lot of women who watched Dems trash Hillary.

    That's the real risk, IMHO. Palin can make a convincing argument that Dems only talk about peace, equality, good governance. When the 'pedal hits the metal' (so, she'll claim) Wall st, not main st. gets invited in behind closed doors, wars are mis-managed or fought with 'one-hand tied behind our backs', and Democrats will never elect a woman President.

    Republicans will because the party of Lincoln and Eisenhower is the real party of all the people, irrespective of creed, color, race and gender.

    God bless America.

    Ludicrous connection (4.62 / 8) (#5)
    by Slado on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:24:16 PM EST
    Obama uses the teleprompter too much.  Is this point really arguable?  

    Palin put a couple buzz words on her hand to make sure she stayed on message.  

    It is a big leap to use this small incident to excuse away a fair criticism of Obama.

    You'll (5.00 / 10) (#6)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:29:05 PM EST
    have to excuse people.  WWTSBQ is getting old so they have to move on to something else.

    I hope like heck she puts messages to all the liberal bloggers on her hand now. Because people are paying attention to her HANDS, fer gawl's sake.  Talk about microanalyzing.

    It would be refreshing if Obama wrote on his hand rather than constantly looking like he's viewing a tennis match while talking to me -- and even to a bunch of school kids.

    And no, I don't like Ms Palin's policies in the least.  But I definitely see the double standard.

    If she's so dumb and worthless, why don't people just IGNORE her.


    Because Palin appears (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:39:42 PM EST
    to be running for President.

    Her adoring fans will ignore the junior high school trick of writing on her palm....

    She channels the irrational, fundamentalist rage of the wingers so perfectly, she may get the nomination......


    SPDS aside, she'll get where she wants to go (5.00 / 5) (#20)
    by Ellie on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:52:47 PM EST
    And for 3 more years, the fauxressive blogren will run around shrieking like chickens with their heads cut off to drive the message of how "crazy" and "dumb" Sarah Palin is.

    Palin believes God will want her to run (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:59:08 PM EST
    for President....

    She is antithetical to all that progressives believe....If you think George Bush's gut instinct way of ignoring facts was a problem wait till you see Palin in action back on the national stage....

    Greta Van Susteren's husband, who had so championed Palin, laments to the NY Times that Palin has been pushed to the right and that she is on a mission....

    Ignore her at your peril....


    Only 2 choices? 1-Ignore Sarah OR 2-Self Destruct (4.50 / 2) (#109)
    by Ellie on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:51:01 PM EST
    I refuse to accept those extremes as the two (fake) choices and will find one that fits me.

    That excuse has worn itself thin (5.00 / 5) (#24)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:57:08 PM EST
    There are probably 15 people who may run for the GOP nomination, but we're not hearing a word about them, and I'm willing to bet they are all out there doing something that the media could find petty enough to crawl all over.

    What I find most telling is that she gave a lengthy speech at that event and not a word of criticism is being lodged at her policies, or beliefs on what would be good for America. But, she wrote a few words on her hand to answer a question that was more than likely planted in the audience.



    that is because (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:27:43 PM EST
    her "policies" are such a joke they dont even merit a "response"

    Yeah 'cuz (3.50 / 4) (#15)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:41:39 PM EST
    junior high tricks like pretending to scratch your face using your middle finger are never seen by the Kool Kidz as funny...

    I saw Obama do that same gesture (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:50:43 PM EST
    a couple of months ago--it is just scratching his face....

    Wow, you really support Palin?

    Writing on your hand is just really cute?  But using a teleprompter is wrong....it's use is almot universal--it does seem more professional and geared to consistency and thought...

    And Obama proved during his Q&A and the debates with McCain he is fine speaking without one.....



    Bggest.Strawman.Ever (4.60 / 10) (#27)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:58:32 PM EST
    You found me out.  Because I'm calling out those who are stupidly focusing on this none-event, that obviously means I support Palin.

    The stupid. It burns.


    If she gets the nomination she won't (none / 0) (#174)
    by esmense on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:35:47 PM EST
    get the Presidency. So the phenomenal good luck that has blessed Obama's political career will continue.

    The Republican party went down a similar road here in Washington State -- purifying its ranks and choosing a Church Lady nominee for governor -- a few years back. She couldn't garner more than 1/3rd of the statewide vote -- and it's been next to impossible for Republicans to win a statewide election ever since. Not because the state has really gone blue, but because former Republicans now vote Libertarian; handing most state elections to the Democrats.

    But I have a feeling Sarah wants a media career more than she wants the Presidency.


    Palin (5.00 / 5) (#9)
    by jharp on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:31:58 PM EST
    "Palin put a couple buzz words on her hand to make sure she stayed on message."

    Energy? Tax Cuts? Lift American spirits?

    And she had to look at her hand for reference when asked "What does a conservative Congress need to do?".

    Ignorance can be cured. Palin is stupid.


    I have to wonder (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by cawaltz on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:06:41 PM EST
    if you've ever taken a college public speaking course?  Other than the fact that she used her hand rather than notecards this exactly how "I" was taught to prepare for a public forum by a college professor.

    public speaking (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by jharp on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:59:21 PM EST
    "I have to wonder if you've ever taken a college public speaking course?"

    Wonder no more. I have taken several and did quite well.

    For God's sake, you completely miss the point.

    The question she was asked during a Q and A session was "what would a newly elected conservative Congress focus on?"

    And she needs crib notes to answer?

    Palin is stupid.


    Okay (4.00 / 3) (#142)
    by cawaltz on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:10:59 PM EST
    So using your point is since she used "notes" she's ignorant.

    What would that make someone who uses a teleprompter to convey thoughts? Are you intellectually honest enough to see the connection?

    By the way, I don't consider Obama stupid. I've disagreed with him vehemently on many things. I considered him wrong on many things. However, it has never in a million years crossed my mind in a million years to consider him the idiot you are now implying he is for using "notes" or the equivalent(a teleprompter). Thanks for clarifying it for me though(rolling eyes).

    You know what, you boyz and girlz have at it. Keep calling her bimbo and witless for behaving like a typical pol. It's a productive use of your time. It isn't going to make every woman who ever got belittled or demeaned because she was a woman empathize with her at all. I give up. Have a grand ol' time.


    The crib notes didn't expose her ignorance (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by shoephone on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:15:09 PM EST
    Her ignorance has been on display for all to see, ever since she started running for vice-president.

    you have (none / 0) (#190)
    by sas on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:54:19 PM EST
    seen what the news media have wanted you to see...you are falling into line quite nicely

    Hogwash. (5.00 / 2) (#196)
    by shoephone on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:59:00 PM EST
    She is what she is. She showed us who she is, all by herself.

    And the only news media (none / 0) (#197)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:59:49 PM EST
    That I've seen pay attention to it is Andrea Mitchell - even on the Today Show they mentioned it, but then mentioned the rest of the story - the Hi Mom!

    This is what happens when DC and the federal government is shut down and nobody has anything of substance to write about....


    this is starting to bother me (5.00 / 6) (#154)
    by CST on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:16:49 PM EST
    "Keep calling her bimbo"

    NO ONE has called her that.  But it's a very convenient strawman around here right now.  Sure, if people were saying that, it would be a sexist attack.  But without anyone actually saying it, we'll just pretend that they did and call them sexist.  It has come up in comment after comment as if every criticism of her includes it.

    If people really don't think Obama (or any other male pol) would be made fun of for this exact same thing, kdog wants some of what they're smoking.


    THANK YOU! (5.00 / 2) (#160)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:23:19 PM EST

    Yes they have (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by cawaltz on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:42:29 PM EST
    take a little trip around the progressive blogosphere. As I've said I'm done. You all keep on doing what you're doing by pretending that the use of notes denotes some kind of stupidity.

    fwiw (none / 0) (#171)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:33:43 PM EST
    she IS a bimbo.

    Hmm...the "bimbo" (4.50 / 6) (#181)
    by vml68 on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:44:19 PM EST
    was elected Governor of Alaska, was VP nominee and earns $100,000 for a speaking engagement.

    Your accomplishments would be...?


    cawaltz (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by jharp on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:28:08 PM EST
    "So using your point is since she used "notes" she's ignorant."

    No. That is not my point.

    For the third time.  My point is she was asked during a Q and A session "what would a newly elected conservative Congress need to focus on?"

    And she had to look for the answer?

    1. Energy 2. Tax cuts 3. Lift American spirits

    Palin is stupid.

    And you thinking Obama isn't stupid? Really? What was your first clue? President of Harvard Law review? Did that help?


    Unlike you (5.00 / 2) (#204)
    by cawaltz on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 03:08:21 PM EST
    I don't limit my belief in intelligence to a college degree or a title.

    As I said knock yourself out though. You keep on thinking that your arguments of "she's dumb" sound more intelligent than an elementary school child calling someone they don't like names. If that's what you want have at it.


    Link please (5.00 / 2) (#169)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:32:36 PM EST
    Enough of the strawman about people using the sexist word "bimbo" to describe Palin.

    Show us where someone has used that word....And was it someone here on this thread?  

    People called Reagan dumb all the time.....We get to do that with politicians...........

    Palin does not get a bye....

    Talk about double standards....


    sorry (none / 0) (#172)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:34:52 PM EST
    I simply could not resist.

    I mean (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:35:43 PM EST
    if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck . . .

    she is almost (none / 0) (#176)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:38:17 PM EST
    as big a bimbo as John Boehner.  but not quite.

    "Other than the fact...." (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:26:13 PM EST
    That is the point....Did she learn to write on her hand in her public speaking course?....

    That is so juvenile.....so unprepared....

    Index card, sure, would be fine.  But even the words....."taxes"  etc she needed an index card for that?

    What she did is so comical that it is tragic--she is probably the de facto head of conservatives in this country, and you defend her know-nothing amateurism....

    Truly amazing.....If she can gain this kind of sympathy here, the sky is the limit....


    I think (5.00 / 3) (#167)
    by Emma on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:31:24 PM EST
    the point you keep missing is this:  if the sky is the limit for Palin, it isn't because of her supporters, it's because of her detractors.

    She gains sympathy not by anything she's done (though "Hi Mom!" was very funny), but because of what's done to her, including the idiotic overreactions to her writing notes on her hand.


    Interesting Catch--22 you pose (4.25 / 4) (#180)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:43:41 PM EST
    Palin gets to do stupid things--and no one can call her on it because it is being mean to her and making people feel sympathetic to her.

    Why is that?  We called Reagan and Quayle dumb....

    Palin is entitled to special treatment?

    I think you are wrong politically--the more Palin's ignorance is exposed, the worse she does....Tina Fey helped Palin????  You may feel sympathetic towards her when she gets called on her stupid antics, but aside from her hard core, consipracy-believing supporters, most do not.

    The Palin rule:  Do not criticize her personally, only her policies....This rule only applies to Palin because she is a woman....


    I'm not (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by Emma on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:49:47 PM EST
    saying don't criticize her.  I'm not saying anything about what you "should" or "shouldn't" do.  Do what you want.  Listen to what I'm saying, don't listen to what I'm saying.  I don't care.

    What I think about people defending themselves against charges of sexism re: Palin is:  "Methinks the lady doth protest too much."  Or something like that.

    I'm perfectly happy to facilitate any sexism, latent or otherwise, that Dems want to indulge in, BTW.  All this stuff about me wanting Palin to get special treatment b/c she's a woman?  Falls right into that category.  So I'm happy to keep talking about it.  I'm happy to keep shining a spotlight on it.


    Why else is Palin supposed to get (5.00 / 2) (#198)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 03:00:22 PM EST
    treated with kid gloves?  Why does that standard not apply to any other candidate?

    well then (4.42 / 7) (#89)
    by TeresaInPa on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:38:17 PM EST
    why is it ok for Obama to put his whole speech on the teleprompter?
    I have even heard him mispronounce familiar words... as if he had not even bothered to read his speech before he read it in public.

    Palin saves tree; Netroots eats own faces, feet (4.62 / 8) (#7)
    by Ellie on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 12:29:54 PM EST
    Wow ... imagine the uproar if she'd used a 3x5 index card or um, spoken woodenly off two, um, teleprompters.

    What am I missing? (4.50 / 6) (#32)
    by vml68 on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:05:29 PM EST
    How is the palm vs telepromter thing even equivalent?

    Jeralyn wrote this on an earlier post about the subject...

    To make it worse, check the video... it was for a q and a session where she likely knew the questions in advance

    Doesn't Obama also know the Q's in advance?
    Palin had five words on her palm vs whole speeches or Q&A sessions on a teleprompter.
    Aside from coming across as unprofessional, I don't see how Palin's palm art is worth discussing. If the point is to make her look foolish, then we should be discussing her actual answers to the questions. Going on and on over a few words on her palm make the left look like the bigger fools.

    It is Palin in a nutshell (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:11:44 PM EST
    Vapid slogans--unprofessional....

    Little symbolic stuff like this matters......just like George H.W. Bush looking at his watch during the debate with Bill.

    Everyone knows about writing notes on your palm....Getting the nuances of policy, not so much....

    That she has so many defenders here tells me she is a formidable politician....

    She will run and she will be a very viable candidate....


    I am not going to argue with that. (5.00 / 3) (#76)
    by vml68 on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:31:37 PM EST
    She will run and she will be a very viable candidate....

    I did not think it was possible for GWB to win once let alone twice....which is why I think wasting time on words written on her palm rather than continuing to hammer away at her "policies" is beyond ridiculous.


    Palin's "defenders" (5.00 / 9) (#135)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:07:35 PM EST
    on this site anyway have zippo to do with her skills as a politician.  None of us support her, none of us would consider voting for her for meter reader.

    What you fail to grasp is that you're being slammed for petty nonsense crapola with a distinct odor of sexist and classist bias, not that Palin is being defended.  Big diff.


    DING DING DING DING DING! (5.00 / 4) (#147)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:11:48 PM EST
    Thank you.

    Yes (5.00 / 2) (#203)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 03:07:02 PM EST
    who can forget the voices of protest that always crop up here immediately whenever ad hominems are hurled in Obama's direction?

    We've always had standards here.


    Sexist (5.00 / 2) (#206)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 03:09:35 PM EST
    Not true....Was Tina Fey being sexist?  Couric?

    She is like Dan Quayle....Did you have trouble with those calling him out for his "potatoe" problem.  Candace Bergen certainly did not with a load of potatoes being dumped on the White House lawn in her Dan Quayle show....

    Bill Kristol was mentor to and discoverer of both Dan Quayle and Palin....He loves empty-headed conservatives....


    Kinda like (3.50 / 2) (#68)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:27:05 PM EST
    "Yes, we can!"

    If you set aside your hatred of Obama (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:39:06 PM EST
    for one moment, you would realize the significance of the comparison.....

    Yes, Palin can ride slogans to the Presidency....


    My point exactly (5.00 / 3) (#108)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:50:39 PM EST
    It happened in 2008.

    Well, I thought you believed (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:00:12 PM EST
    she couldn't win even the nomination because the Republicans wanted to win and would nominate Romney instead.

    Saying she won't win does give progressives a certain kind of permission to defend her.


    She doesn't have the machine (none / 0) (#143)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:11:16 PM EST
    And she will never make it past Super Tuesday, if she even makes it that far.

    Those who have riddiculed (5.00 / 7) (#67)
    by hairspray on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:25:47 PM EST
    Sarah Palin from the beginning, starting with her clothes, hair, etc. are doing themselves a real disservice.  There are many people who defend her against these attacks simply because of the nastiness and pettiness of the attackers.  Some of them don't even know her politics and that is a problem.  Many others (myself included) see the sexism and pettiness and are turned off by it.  However, we will not vote for her because of her policies not her behavior.  But we do distance ourselves from the so called "progressives" just for this reason.  We become independents and look elsewhere for candidates.

    Policy positions? (none / 0) (#77)
    by cawaltz on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:31:55 PM EST
    Why, what a quaint way to decide which candidate you prefer!

    Are you sure you wouldn't rather decide based on the candidates hairstyle though?(tongue firmly in cheek)


    man (4.40 / 5) (#36)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:09:29 PM EST
    the Palin apologists are more shameless than even I imagined.

    I thought BTD was being too generous (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by ruffian on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:21:16 PM EST
    when he said it was the GOP pushing the teleprompter-scorn.

    Her emotional pull is truly amazing (4.40 / 5) (#44)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:14:23 PM EST
    Half the commentators on this blog rush to her defense...even though she is anathema to their own beliefs....

    incredible (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:16:08 PM EST
    What is truly incredible is the (5.00 / 7) (#57)
    by vml68 on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:22:10 PM EST
    inability of some to distinguish between  SP apologists and people who point out the idiocy of stooping to the level of those very apologists.

    yeah (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:24:00 PM EST
    it always goes something like that.  doesnt it?

    How far to the Right (5.00 / 3) (#104)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:48:24 PM EST
    does a woman candidate have to move before concern over her policy stances overrides concern for her possible oppression (which somehow becomes the oppression of all women)?

    Ilsa Koch?


    Maybe not as anathema (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:18:56 PM EST
    as you thought..

    bingo (5.00 / 3) (#55)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:20:43 PM EST
    something I have suspected (and warned about) for a while now.

    You'll notice (5.00 / 8) (#60)
    by cawaltz on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:24:46 PM EST
    defense was limited to the fact that this was a really petty critique.

    Perhaps, if the criticism had been her actual POLICY positions there might not have been any defense at all.

    Just my two cents though, the progressive community can feel free to continue to shoot itself in the foot. I'm not that emotionally invested in their success anymore than I am in Palin's at this point.


    just for our information (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:36:07 PM EST
    what ARE her policy positions?

    Thought you knew (5.00 / 4) (#95)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:39:59 PM EST
    that is because (none / 0) (#70)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:27:43 PM EST

    her "policies" are such a joke they dont even merit a "response"

    [ Parent | Reply to This | 1 2 3 4 5  ]

    Saying her policies (5.00 / 6) (#113)
    by cawaltz on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:53:09 PM EST
    are a joke without explaining how they are a joke is something I'd expect from an elementary school debater, not someone seriously interested in policy.

    If that's the progressives "A" game they better get used to losing.


    Palin, during her tea party speech (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by shoephone on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:48:34 PM EST
    said the following was her defense policy:

    "We win, they lose!"

    And people actually want us to criticize her policies? Oy. Too easy.


    She said way more than (4.62 / 8) (#118)
    by cawaltz on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:56:18 PM EST
    that but hey keep it up. I think the new coalition strategy is going swimmingly. I mean after those wins in New Jersey, Virginia and Massachussets who am I to argue with successful strategy. Keep alienating women by calling her a bimbo.......I'm sure that along with dissing them in health care will have them eating out of your hands in 10' and 12'.

    (tongue firmly in cheek)


    I'm a woman, just not thin-skinned like some (5.00 / 3) (#140)
    by shoephone on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:08:58 PM EST
    Sarah Palin is not competent, she is ignorant. She is a caricature. Those of us who find her incompetence funny are compelled to laugh. And for that, we are labeled "sexists."

    That's the real inanity, right there.


    Saying she isn't smart (none / 0) (#175)
    by cawaltz on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:37:08 PM EST
    over and over again isn't very convincing. Frankly, it doesn't take a whole lot of intelligence to name call. It's behavior I expect from elementary age children that don't know any beter, not adults.

    I expect adults to use reasoned debate when they disagree with someone. Rather than say she's stupid it would be more intelligent to say that her positions on point A are wrong because.......... Or if she doesn't have a point A then you point that out.

    "look she's using notes" just sounds juvenile.


    Convincing of WHAT? (5.00 / 2) (#186)
    by shoephone on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:49:29 PM EST
    Pointing out stupidity in a politician is wrong? Since when? The Democrats and the media didn't shrink from pointing out Bush's stupidity. Good for them. Plenty of Dems are stupid too. Should I refrain from pointing them out because someone might get their knickers in a twist?

    How about throwing around the insults, "sexist" and "misogynist"? Do you prefer those? The Palin defenders have thrown them around repeatedly in this thread, by using the deceitful trick of claiming that Palin was called a "bimbo." NO ONE who criticized Palin used that word -- the only people who have used it are the Palin defenders. And some Palin critics were told to "get a womb." That's not an insult? What planet are we on now?

    And you want your complaints to be taken seriously?

    Y'all need to get together and get your talking points straightened out, because so far, you aren't very... convincing.


    I don't (5.00 / 3) (#201)
    by Emma on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 03:04:24 PM EST
    need to convince you.  It doesn't matter to me whether you're convinced because AFAIC the writing is on the wall re:  Dem sexism.  That you think otherwise doesn't mean anything to me.

    Also, it's not the pointing out "stupidity" that's wrong.  It's the, how shall I say it....hysterical overreaction to Palin's palm notes that is most telling.

    I don't see anything about Palin writing those notes on her hand that makes me think she's stupid.  I just don't.  It was a dopey thing to do, but it doesn't make me think she's stupid, ignorant, or any of the other stuff that's been thrown at her because she wrote notes on her hand.

    Why is anybody the least bit concerned about Palin running for President?  I don't think anybody really is.  I think she's a convenient target for Dems to try to coalesce around in part because the "stupid woman" dogwhistles work so well.  I'm tired of getting "Palin is the evul!!  Give us money!!!" emails from Dems.  I just don't think she is.  

    Palin's a run of the mill standard Republican Fox News shill these days and I don't understand what makes her such a uniquely special person that we must destroy her at all costs.  I just don't.  She's a Fox News commenter and she's totally irrelevant to anything of any substance happening DC. So why the frothing at the mouth about her?


    I disagreed vehemently (4.40 / 5) (#101)
    by cawaltz on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:45:24 PM EST
    and found it laughable that she believes that Obama has not been strong enough on national security/defense. Particularly when his team is practically the same as the guy before him.

    I think her position that government health care was the equivalent of "death panels" was hyperbole at it's finest. I would have skewered her over the fact that the private industry has their own death panels.

    I thought her retreat from the usage of retard from Rush Limbaugh was political tribalism and not the least bit "mavericky"

    Do you need more critique that doesn't stoop to using the term bimbo or witless?

    By the way, all of her behaviors lately tell me she's a typical pol, no smarter or dumber than any of the other average ones we have running around DC right now.


    actually I dont think I used either (5.00 / 4) (#116)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:54:48 PM EST
    of those words.  and thank you for making my point.

    You may not have (none / 0) (#122)
    by cawaltz on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:58:26 PM EST
    but the progressive blogosphere is FULL of commentary exactly like I posted.

    Unless your point was to be inane I'd love to know what point I made for you?


    the "point" (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:03:49 PM EST
    that her "policies" do not merit a serious response.

    The problem is (4.72 / 11) (#168)
    by cawaltz on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:31:42 PM EST
    her policies DO MERIT a serious response.

    If the best argument you have to her claim that a government run health care plan is a death panel is that she's a bimbo is it any wonder that you're losing the health care debate?

    If the best you can do to her claim that Obama is not strong enough on defense is that she's witless or dumb be prepared to lose that one too.

    If the best you can muster on anything is "she's a big ol' dummy" while the country hemmorhages jobs, the health care problem grows and things fall down around the average Americans ears I hope you're prepared to lose.

    "She's dumb" is not going to convince the electorate to vote for progressives or Democrats. It makes Democrats look dumb too, not to mention partisan and misogynistic(there are a whole lot of women out there that can empathize with being ignored and demeaned because they are women. After all, there are a whole lot of people who seem to believe we are meant to be subservient.) Americans are looking for solutions, not namecalling.

    Anyway, I'm pretty much done with trying to explain why this behavior is unacceptable. The progressive blogosphere can continue on its merry path. As I've pointed out above though, it seems to me that if you need to attract people to win then it would be smarter not to alienate broad swaths of people and make the person on the other side a sympathetic figure. What do I know though I'm just a girl.


    I think (4.75 / 12) (#66)
    by Emma on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:25:35 PM EST
    what you're seeing is that the Dems and their supporters have used up all their cred when it comes to women's issues and criticizing women.  We're not getting on board with "But we're not sexist!  We're Dems!"  That ship sailed sometime in 2008.

    Or, the reverse (5.00 / 3) (#138)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:08:26 PM EST
    a too-lenient attitude towards Palin....

    I equate her with Beck....Both from the same fundmentalist, demogogic mold.  Both shrewd but not bright, and both very effective at leading a mob....

    Writing notes on her palm has nothing to do with her being a woman....It is not a sexist critique.

    If she is vapid, why shy away from that characterization?....Most of you here who defend Palin would have no trouble saying Reagan was vapid.....

    But you cut her so much slack....That is a mistake....She could lead that mob to some very ugly places.....


    Meh (4.50 / 6) (#157)
    by Emma on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:19:36 PM EST
    Woman-hating mob on the left led by Olbermann and Matthews, woman-hating mob on the right led by Palin and Beck.  Same difference.  I might as well go for schadenfreude when I vote, since I'm f*cked either way.

    Palin in 2012!  LOL


    The Right would love to spin (5.00 / 2) (#178)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:41:27 PM EST
    anything less than moleskin glove treatment of Palin as misogyny. That was the plan from the beginning.

    Gotta give 'em credit for figuring out their target audience. Cunning bastards.


    Change a few words around.... (5.00 / 7) (#185)
    by vml68 on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:48:47 PM EST
    The Right would love to spin (none / 0) (#178)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:41:27 PM EST

    anything less than moleskin glove treatment of Palin as misogyny. That was the plan from the beginning.
    Gotta give 'em credit for figuring out their target audience. Cunning bastards.



    I don't think palm notes (4.20 / 5) (#127)
    by ruffian on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:02:07 PM EST
    would be any less amusing on Mitt Romney's hand. Making any laughing at Palin into an example of sexism is using up a lot of cred.

    I don't (4.86 / 7) (#149)
    by Emma on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:12:28 PM EST
    need cred with Dems.  Dems need cred with me.

    I don't labor under any illusions or delusions about my importance to the Dem party or my effectiveness in bringing about national policy objectives.  The number is the same on both counts:  zero.

    So, I don't need cred.  I'll say what I say, I'll do what I do, and people find it convincing or not, and I go back to my life and keep on keeping on.  I may need things from my government, but I understand now that I won't get them.  So I'm free to pursue any path I want with my political criticisms, my political support, and my vote.  Because in the end, it will make no difference.

    You don't believe me?  Fine, okay,  You find me not credible?  Fine, okay.  It has no effect on what I do, what I say, what I think, or how I vote.

    Though I will say this:  if Palin runs in 2012, I might just vote for her.  Not because I support her or her causes or positions, but because Obama has proved to me it that it doesn't matter who's in the WH or Congress and I'd really, really love to see "progressive" heads explode in a paroxysm of misogyny and hatred -- thus re-confirming what I already know about the inherent sexism of US politics and political movements.


    When you tell us you might vote for Palin (4.25 / 4) (#191)
    by shoephone on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:54:42 PM EST
    in 2012, just to prove how sexist the Democrats really are... I think that's ample evidence that you have lost your cred.

    I don't need cred (5.00 / 3) (#202)
    by Emma on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 03:06:06 PM EST
    Thus, your criticism is meaningless to me.  I don't care.

    what cred (3.50 / 2) (#133)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:04:22 PM EST
    Bingo. (3.50 / 2) (#145)
    by shoephone on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:11:41 PM EST
    Future-SP is a fraction of the danger Obama is NOW (2.50 / 6) (#162)
    by Ellie on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:23:58 PM EST
    Jeez, get a womb you guys. Maybe, eventually, a crack of light will make it into that Socratic cave.

    Would that it were that simple (none / 0) (#170)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:32:52 PM EST
    Your statement is not logical. (none / 0) (#158)
    by my opinion on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:21:15 PM EST
    All the words were spelled correctly. (none / 0) (#62)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:24:50 PM EST

    even if was was (none / 0) (#65)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:25:31 PM EST
    scratched out

    That was the kicker for me... (none / 0) (#134)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:06:59 PM EST
    the cross-out...all you gotta do is spit in your hand to erase, then dry and rewrite Mrs.P, for future reference:)

    seriously (none / 0) (#139)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:08:48 PM EST
    Not to say.. (5.00 / 3) (#156)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:17:50 PM EST
    writing on your hand makes you a bad leader...I'll take good ideas from a cat who writes them down on a baboon's arse:)

    But when you need crib notes to remember right-wing rhetoic 101, or a prompter for center-left rhetoric 101...thats not a good sign.


    well thats really the point (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:24:41 PM EST
    in spite of the oppression hew and cry if you cant remember THIS?!?!?


        (Budget - crossed out) Cuts


        Lift American Spirits

    ...I honestly dont know how to finish that.


    No doubt... (5.00 / 2) (#165)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:28:00 PM EST
    and in front of a crowd who would fawn and cheer if you simply pulled a Charlie Brown's teacher and said "wah wah...wah wah wah wah" no less.

    Did she pronounce them correctly? (none / 0) (#75)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:30:45 PM EST
    If we're going to get petty, maybe Obama could learn to pronounce the word "corpsman" correctly then...

    this is not about Obama (5.00 / 4) (#81)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:35:02 PM EST
    but since you bring him up I cant help but wonder what you would say if it was HIM scribbling on his hands.

    I wouldn't say anything (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:46:56 PM EST
    I would probably assume that maybe they were last minute notes before walking out on the stage to keep his talking points in order. I occasionally also write notes on my hand if no paper is nearby - I guess some around here who like to take the huge leap and say I support her, would probably say that makes me like her.  Whatever.

    And you can sure as hell believe there wouldn't be this uproar about it.


    mmmmmK (4.25 / 4) (#112)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:52:51 PM EST
    Mr. Mackey, is that you? (none / 0) (#131)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:03:44 PM EST
    And my point is valid (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:49:07 PM EST
    If we are going to have bed wetters around here in a faint because she wrote on her hand, then it's perfectly fair to point out when her potential opponent (since many around here think she'll be the nominee in 2012) also does when he makes stupid mistakes - like not being able to pronounce two word syllables correctly - twice in the same speech.

    What about Pakistan? (5.00 / 3) (#83)
    by CST on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:36:02 PM EST
    What's the consensus here?  Do we want our president to say it correctly "Pocky-stahn"(elitist)?  Or do we want our president to sound like an Amurican "Pack-ih-stan"?

    I vote Amurican.  That's how I say it :)


    I like that he pronounces it correctly (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by cawaltz on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:49:51 PM EST
    I prefer it.

    However, I wish someone would have taught him how to say corpsman before he gave that speech the other day.......

    It's a tiny criticism though. I thought it was nice that he acknowledged that many of our military members were there on a humanitarian mission(and said as much in my postings).


    Maybe I could be prez...

    Her address... (none / 0) (#103)
    by Dadler on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:47:45 PM EST
    ...is tatooed backwards on her tongue. Back-country sorority wager, most likely.  Has anyone checked her glasses? They could be rigged, too.

    Wow! And we accuse the other (5.00 / 5) (#119)
    by vml68 on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 01:56:38 PM EST
    side of having no class.

    lighten up, francis (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by Dadler on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:58:52 PM EST
    the glasses part was an obvious knock on the rhetorical overkill. even though she invited it by being just ridiculously hypocritical.

    but now we get reports that on her other hand was a shopping list that included "borscht and falafel fixins'."  


    You call me Francis and I'll kill ya.... (none / 0) (#208)
    by vml68 on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 03:13:23 PM EST
    And your explanation for this would be....?

    Her address is tatooed backwards on her tongue. Back-country sorority wager, most likely

    OT (none / 0) (#136)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:07:53 PM EST
    sorry (none / 0) (#141)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:09:54 PM EST
    just saw this has already been ot'ed twice in this thread.

    From gall-bladder surgery?! (none / 0) (#148)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:12:10 PM EST
    I think that's a very routine surgery.

    Probably the associated infection... (none / 0) (#161)
    by desertswine on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 02:23:53 PM EST
    but I'm just guessing from my own experience.

    Its SNL (none / 0) (#210)
    by Saul on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 03:17:12 PM EST
    Can't wait to see what they do with this.

    Dem Hand-job artists (none / 0) (#215)
    by kidneystones on Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 07:41:15 PM EST
    Here you have it: a collection of Dems riffing on Palin and hand-jobs.


    Crib notes (none / 0) (#217)
    by DancingOpossum on Tue Feb 09, 2010 at 09:24:14 AM EST
    When I was professional perfomer/comedian (back before the wheel was invented), we all used crib notes--all the time. Even for shows we'd done a hundred times. It's not THAT big a deal.